Looks like we have new...

RSB

...low tier killer. Really, I think she can aspire to be the new worst killer.

1. She can sprint slower than Billy, she needs to charge her sprint longer than him, her sprint is like 3-5 seconds, and she has a big cooldown for it, when she ends sprinting.
2. While she is sprinting she CAN'T see the survivors. Really, she can't, this is in her basic kit, they are literally invisible for her.
3. I think... she is actually slow as a Huntress?
4. She should not be stunned in one place while charging her power, she should be able to move.

Really, what is this? A crippled Billy? Without being able to see survivors, with a big cooldown, and without ability to hurt survivors with your sprint?

This may be the first Chapter I will not buy for real money, despite the killer looks really really great - she is just as weak as good she looks.

fcc2014

@ZombieGenesis said:

@RSB said:
With this logic, we can say "just adapt" to people playing Wraith and Freddy. They are not bad, people just need to adapt. It is quite sad, that "just adapt" thing does not goes both ways...

There are skill ceilings on both sides. There's only so much The Spirit will be able to do with her power in the state it is currently in. Whereas anything she can do the Survivors can adapt to and learn to counter. It's easier for her to detect her (the whooshing sound) than it is for her to detect them (maybe blood if she has the right add on or scratches...if they exist and are working correctly).

Does monitor and abuse reduce it? Isn't this just like the heartbeat or the nurse's blink from the survivor perspective?

unknown

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unknown

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fcc2014

@ZombieGenesis said:
Here FCC goes again, countering an argument that was never made. No one said "I want it EZ!" but that's the argument you're making him fight against. No one said that but you. And the argument that killers just need to "run these perks, make sure to use these addons, run backwards, play the game at certain times of the day, blah blah blah" is tired and old. Players should not have to run certain addons or perks to make a killer playable.

LMAO TRIGGERED MUCH? I asked if you adapted your play style, I asked if you have been changing up your perks, Are you playing against highly skilled players. I did however not ask you to run backwards or suggest you play at certain times of the day.

fcc2014

@ZombieGenesis said:

@fcc2014 said:

Does monitor and abuse reduce it? Isn't this just like the heartbeat or the nurse's blink from the survivor perspective?

From what I've experienced "the whoosh" or whatever you want to call it functions like Freddy's song or the Huntress's singing, nothing lowers or removes it. It's always there when you're around. I haven't seen all of her addons, however, so I'm not sure if any of those impact it but a killer should not be dependent upon addons to become playable.

Other than Nurse, Billy and maybe Myers almost ever killer needs addons, especially playing at high levels. You should however suggest tweaks to the reduction of the whooshing sound either with monitor and abuse or in addons. That along with the cooldown seem like a valid complaints.

RSB

@fcc2014 said:

@RSB said:

Okay, how can I adapt to something I can't see, but they can hear? How can I adapt to someone, who has more tools to juke me, than I have to juke them? How can I adapt, when once they just walk away, and I miss, I need to get looped for at least another 20 seconds, before my power recharges? How can I adapt, when to use my power I need to spend good 2-3 seconds standing in one place, when they can just run, use window/pallet and boom, my power is destroyed?

With this logic, we can say "just adapt" to people playing Wraith and Freddy. They are not bad, people just need to adapt. It is quite sad, that "just adapt" thing does not goes both ways...

Change up your perks and addons. Do you have predator?, Addons show Blood, You seem that you want this too be nice and easy. It shouldn't be easy you are playing with new mechanics. Adapt or Die!

Don't encourage me to suicide, because you may have a couple of drops of blood on your hands.

Only one, ultra-rare addon makes her see the blood on the ground, and killer who is 100% dependant on his addons to be somehow playable is not a good killer. As i said before - when survivors realise how she works, she will be unplayable.

fcc2014

@RSB said:

Don't encourage me to suicide, because you may have a couple of drops of blood on your hands.

Only one, ultra-rare addon makes her see the blood on the ground, and killer who is 100% dependant on his addons to be somehow playable is not a good killer. As i said before - when survivors realise how she works, she will be unplayable.

I guess a couple is better than buckets.

Honestly in all seriousness. Open a new thread Suggesting the blood tracking either built in or the offering a common. Tag people you know will support it and have the same complaints. If they don't listen you tried and don't buy the chapter if you think the character won't be viable.

Delfador

@fcc2014 said:

@ZombieGenesis said:

@fcc2014 said:

Does monitor and abuse reduce it? Isn't this just like the heartbeat or the nurse's blink from the survivor perspective?

From what I've experienced "the whoosh" or whatever you want to call it functions like Freddy's song or the Huntress's singing, nothing lowers or removes it. It's always there when you're around. I haven't seen all of her addons, however, so I'm not sure if any of those impact it but a killer should not be dependent upon addons to become playable.

Other than Nurse, Billy and maybe Myers almost ever killer needs addons, especially playing at high levels. You should however suggest tweaks to the reduction of the whooshing sound either with monitor and abuse or in addons. That along with the cooldown seem like a valid complaints.

which shouldn't be the case in the first place.

Survivors don't need to have items or addons to win the game. Why do killers need it? Devs should have seen it and adjusted their killers' powers but they just ignore.

Killers should not depend on addons and addons that make killers really strong should be removed. 4 blinks, insta chainsaws are not okay and make the killers unnecessarily strong while scarred hand+waterlogged shoe is totally acceptable.

IMO addons should change the playstyle of killers like some of hag's addons or some of Myers's addons.

She shouldn't depend on addons.

Vietfox

fcc2014 said:

@RSB said:

Okay, how can I adapt to something I can't see, but they can hear? How can I adapt to someone, who has more tools to juke me, than I have to juke them? How can I adapt, when once they just walk away, and I miss, I need to get looped for at least another 20 seconds, before my power recharges? How can I adapt, when to use my power I need to spend good 2-3 seconds standing in one place, when they can just run, use window/pallet and boom, my power is destroyed?

With this logic, we can say "just adapt" to people playing Wraith and Freddy. They are not bad, people just need to adapt. It is quite sad, that "just adapt" thing does not goes both ways...

Change up your perks and addons. Do you have predator?, Addons show Blood, You seem that you want this too be nice and easy. It shouldn't be easy you are playing with new mechanics. Adapt or Die!

Finally someone understands.
I've played in different games which changes were a common thing, you might like them or not, but at the end there's alway a way to adapt to them, like the people who adapted to the red stain and the ones who keep complaining about it.
Obviously not everything can be perfect but big issues will be fixed eventually. Besides, we are talking about the PTB, so...

RSB

@fcc2014 said:

@RSB said:

Don't encourage me to suicide, because you may have a couple of drops of blood on your hands.

Only one, ultra-rare addon makes her see the blood on the ground, and killer who is 100% dependant on his addons to be somehow playable is not a good killer. As i said before - when survivors realise how she works, she will be unplayable.

I guess a couple is better than buckets.

Honestly in all seriousness. Open a new thread Suggesting the blood tracking either built in or the offering a common. Tag people you know will support it and have the same complaints. If they don't listen you tried and don't buy the chapter if you think the character won't be viable.

Sure, If they won't do something about her, I, and probably more people, won't buy her with real money, but shards instead. Shame, I think this is the best looking killer in the game, they put a great work in designing her looks, but so little to design her power properly. It will be the first DLC for DbD that I won't buy, as a protest.

fcc2014

@Vietfox said:
fcc2014 said:

@RSB said:

Okay, how can I adapt to something I can't see, but they can hear? How can I adapt to someone, who has more tools to juke me, than I have to juke them? How can I adapt, when once they just walk away, and I miss, I need to get looped for at least another 20 seconds, before my power recharges? How can I adapt, when to use my power I need to spend good 2-3 seconds standing in one place, when they can just run, use window/pallet and boom, my power is destroyed?

With this logic, we can say "just adapt" to people playing Wraith and Freddy. They are not bad, people just need to adapt. It is quite sad, that "just adapt" thing does not goes both ways...

 Change up your perks and addons. Do you have predator?, Addons show Blood, You seem that you want this too be nice and easy. It shouldn't be easy you are playing with new mechanics. Adapt or Die!

Finally someone understands.
I've played in different games which changes were a common thing, you might like them or not, but at the end there's alway a way to adapt to them, like the people who adapted to the red stain and the ones who keep complaining about it.
Obviously not everything can be perfect but big issues will be fixed eventually. Besides, we are talking about the PTB, so...

I think the fear for these guys is that nothing will be done to tweak her before release because one of the devs was shutting down complaints right away. The problem however was these threads and complaints popped up 2 hrs into launch. That just isn't a reasonable amount of data to react on especially since people had issues finding lobbies. They can't see blood but you can see grass and corn move, the cooldown is long and you can't re use power until 100%, Can't track blood without an ultra rare. The whooshing sound isn't reduced with perks like monitor and abuse like the nurse or billy receive. This seem legit things they should look at.

AmorePrincess

I think she looks amazing. You will need to practice, but I am willing to put that time on her. She is way more than I thought. 

RSB

@fcc2014 said:

@Vietfox said:
fcc2014 said:

@RSB said:

Okay, how can I adapt to something I can't see, but they can hear? How can I adapt to someone, who has more tools to juke me, than I have to juke them? How can I adapt, when once they just walk away, and I miss, I need to get looped for at least another 20 seconds, before my power recharges? How can I adapt, when to use my power I need to spend good 2-3 seconds standing in one place, when they can just run, use window/pallet and boom, my power is destroyed?

With this logic, we can say "just adapt" to people playing Wraith and Freddy. They are not bad, people just need to adapt. It is quite sad, that "just adapt" thing does not goes both ways...

 Change up your perks and addons. Do you have predator?, Addons show Blood, You seem that you want this too be nice and easy. It shouldn't be easy you are playing with new mechanics. Adapt or Die!

Finally someone understands.
I've played in different games which changes were a common thing, you might like them or not, but at the end there's alway a way to adapt to them, like the people who adapted to the red stain and the ones who keep complaining about it.
Obviously not everything can be perfect but big issues will be fixed eventually. Besides, we are talking about the PTB, so...

I think the fear for these guys is that nothing will be done to tweak her before release because one of the devs was shutting down complaints right away. The problem however was these threads and complaints popped up 2 hrs into launch. That just isn't a reasonable amount of data to react on especially since people had issues finding lobbies. They can't see blood but you can see grass and corn move, the cooldown is long and you can't re use power until 100%, Can't track blood without an ultra rare. The whooshing sound isn't reduced with perks like monitor and abuse like the nurse or billy receive. This seem legit things they should look at.

Yep, I agree, while seeing survivors isn't a mandatory thing, the other issues with her are highly understandable to fix. Like not being able to move while charging ther power, very long charg, very long cooldown and that blood.

fcc2014

@rsb > hopefully they will look at these things.

RSB

@fcc2014 said:
@rsb > hopefully they will look at these things.

I don't think so, Janick went with his rude comments, and rejected all negative feedback (reasonable feedback, I would say, made by experienced players). I just think they make underpowered killers, just to buff them in PTB, so the killers are happy, because they have been buffed (placebo), and survivors are happy, because the killer is mid-tier at best.

Bravo0413

Clown was adjusted last PTB to make him better before release.... the devs will make adjustments for sure.. you tell that they want her to use her power in order to have success... everyone (for the most part) agrees that the cooldown for her power is far too long and the movement speed is underwhelming... that said the devs need data before they make any changes and shes only been out for a day 

fcc2014

24hrs and more feedback later maybe that position will change.

RSB

@Bravo0413 said:
Clown was adjusted last PTB to make him better before release.... the devs will make adjustments for sure.. you tell that they want her to use her power in order to have success... everyone (for the most part) agrees that the cooldown for her power is far too long and the movement speed is underwhelming... that said the devs need data before they make any changes and shes only been out for a day 

Her movement speed would be fine, if not that looooong cooldowns, long charge and several other issues. She has a great potential, but needs a few tweaks.

Master

@RSB said:
...low tier killer. Really, I think she can aspire to be the new worst killer.

1. She can sprint slower than Billy, she needs to charge her sprint longer than him, her sprint is like 3-5 seconds, and she has a big cooldown for it, when she ends sprinting.
2. While she is sprinting she CAN'T see the survivors. Really, she can't, this is in her basic kit, they are literally invisible for her.
3. I think... she is actually slow as a Huntress?
4. She should not be stunned in one place while charging her power, she should be able to move.

Really, what is this? A crippled Billy? Without being able to see survivors, with a big cooldown, and without ability to hurt survivors with your sprint?

This may be the first Chapter I will not buy for real money, despite the killer looks really really great - she is just as weak as good she looks.

The devs are not gonna release any viable killers anymore.
Guess they are scared to be review bombed again

Master

@Madjura said:

@Fengminni said:
She is not low tier she is definitely high tier. 
2. She sees their scratch marks and their blood so she still knows where they are and quickly go back to her real form and one shot them
3. She is really fast during her spirit form and cannot be seen a definitely strong ability.

One of her ultra rares lets her see blood when using her power. Being able to always see the blood seems to be a bug.

The only thing that being invisible lets you do is appear right next to or behind survivors, which you can also do with Nurse. Or Wraith. Or Freddy with Monitor & Abuse.

Maybe try actually playing her seriously instead of coming here and complain. I have watched several streamers play her the past hour

Yes because watching other people play the killer for an hour totally lets you get an accurate read on the powerlevel of a new killer.

if people actually take the time to understand her perks

The killer's teachables are irrelevant to the strength of the killer

She is really strong when it comes to end chases and loops quickly and mindgaming survivors 

Nurse exists

wait you cant see blood without an ultra rare addon? Amazing, even useles at low ranks then....

fcc2014

@Master said:

The devs are not gonna release any viable killers anymore.
Guess they are scared to be review bombed again

Those review bombs were insane. I do think Matheiu saying that they are more concerned with making a character fun to play, does give credence that this will never truly be balanced.

Acromio

No way to reliably find survivors faster, no way to down them faster, no way to reliably travel through the map faster. Wow. She may actually be worse than the Wraith and take his place as worst killer in the game (Freddy doesn't count).

Master

@Acromio said:
No way to reliably find survivors faster, no way to down them faster, no way to reliably travel through the map faster. Wow. She may actually be worse than the Wraith and take his place as worst killer in the game (Freddy doesn't count).

Since freddy will receive a rework "soon" she might be the worst killer in the game indeed

Master

@Peanits said:
CoffengMin said:

quick questuon , does someone know if she can go to a far gen thats being worked on and grab people? i know she cant see while sprinting but you might be able to grab them if you guess where they are

You can. By default, she can move a little more than 32m with her power. So with some practice, you can actually appear behind someone on a generator without ever making a sound. It would be easier with monitor and abuse as well.

You cannot. Being invisible actually makes a sound and you will only be able to grab afk survivors of a gen. Or is that sound a bug atm?

RSB

@Master said:

@Madjura said:

@Fengminni said:
She is not low tier she is definitely high tier. 
2. She sees their scratch marks and their blood so she still knows where they are and quickly go back to her real form and one shot them
3. She is really fast during her spirit form and cannot be seen a definitely strong ability.

One of her ultra rares lets her see blood when using her power. Being able to always see the blood seems to be a bug.

The only thing that being invisible lets you do is appear right next to or behind survivors, which you can also do with Nurse. Or Wraith. Or Freddy with Monitor & Abuse.

Maybe try actually playing her seriously instead of coming here and complain. I have watched several streamers play her the past hour

Yes because watching other people play the killer for an hour totally lets you get an accurate read on the powerlevel of a new killer.

if people actually take the time to understand her perks

The killer's teachables are irrelevant to the strength of the killer

She is really strong when it comes to end chases and loops quickly and mindgaming survivors 

Nurse exists

wait you cant see blood without an ultra rare addon? Amazing, even useles at low ranks then....

You can't. I mean, right now you can, but it is a bug and will be fixed. After the fix, you will be able to see ONLY scratchmarks.

RSB

@fcc2014 said:

@Master said:

The devs are not gonna release any viable killers anymore.
Guess they are scared to be review bombed again

Those review bombs were insane. I do think Matheiu saying that they are more concerned with making a character fun to play, does give credence that this will never truly be balanced.

But you know, playing underwhelming and just weak killer isn't fun. We just want to have a fair killer, fun for both sides, not just for one. And that seems to be the problem - they release a fun killer to play, indeed, but to play against.

RSB

@Master said:

@Peanits said:
CoffengMin said:

quick questuon , does someone know if she can go to a far gen thats being worked on and grab people? i know she cant see while sprinting but you might be able to grab them if you guess where they are

You can. By default, she can move a little more than 32m with her power. So with some practice, you can actually appear behind someone on a generator without ever making a sound. It would be easier with monitor and abuse as well.

You cannot. Being invisible actually makes a sound and you will only be able to grab afk survivors of a gen. Or is that sound a bug atm?

The sound is a feature, it even written in her power description I think.

//EDIT: yep - "The Spirit will produce an audible cue at her current location."

RSB

@meshugganah said:
RSB said:

@Master said:8

@Madjura said:

@Fengminni said:

She is not low tier she is definitely high tier. 

2. She sees their scratch marks and their blood so she still knows where they are and quickly go back to her real form and one shot them

3. She is really fast during her spirit form and cannot be seen a definitely strong ability.

One of her ultra rares lets her see blood when using her power. Being able to always see the blood seems to be a bug.

The only thing that being invisible lets you do is appear right next to or behind survivors, which you can also do with Nurse. Or Wraith. Or Freddy with Monitor & Abuse.

Maybe try actually playing her seriously instead of coming here and complain. I have watched several streamers play her the past hour

Yes because watching other people play the killer for an hour totally lets you get an accurate read on the powerlevel of a new killer.

if people actually take the time to understand her perks

The killer's teachables are irrelevant to the strength of the killer

She is really strong when it comes to end chases and loops quickly and mindgaming survivors 

Nurse exists

wait you cant see blood without an ultra rare addon? Amazing, even useles at low ranks then....

You can't. I mean, right now you can, but it is a bug and will be fixed. After the fix, you will be able to see ONLY scratchmarks.

....and that is only until survivors learn not to run.

Yep, tha's why I made the topic in feedback forum. People, who claim she is good are not right because of one simple reason - survivors just do not know how she works. When they realise it, she will be worse than Wraith.

Master

@RSB said:

@Master said:

@Madjura said:

@Fengminni said:
She is not low tier she is definitely high tier. 
2. She sees their scratch marks and their blood so she still knows where they are and quickly go back to her real form and one shot them
3. She is really fast during her spirit form and cannot be seen a definitely strong ability.

One of her ultra rares lets her see blood when using her power. Being able to always see the blood seems to be a bug.

The only thing that being invisible lets you do is appear right next to or behind survivors, which you can also do with Nurse. Or Wraith. Or Freddy with Monitor & Abuse.

Maybe try actually playing her seriously instead of coming here and complain. I have watched several streamers play her the past hour

Yes because watching other people play the killer for an hour totally lets you get an accurate read on the powerlevel of a new killer.

if people actually take the time to understand her perks

The killer's teachables are irrelevant to the strength of the killer

She is really strong when it comes to end chases and loops quickly and mindgaming survivors 

Nurse exists

wait you cant see blood without an ultra rare addon? Amazing, even useles at low ranks then....

You can't. I mean, right now you can, but it is a bug and will be fixed. After the fix, you will be able to see ONLY scratchmarks.

LOL and I thought she is trash not knowing about that bug already
Good lord

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RSB

@Master said:

@RSB said:

@Master said:

@Madjura said:

@Fengminni said:
She is not low tier she is definitely high tier. 
2. She sees their scratch marks and their blood so she still knows where they are and quickly go back to her real form and one shot them
3. She is really fast during her spirit form and cannot be seen a definitely strong ability.

One of her ultra rares lets her see blood when using her power. Being able to always see the blood seems to be a bug.

The only thing that being invisible lets you do is appear right next to or behind survivors, which you can also do with Nurse. Or Wraith. Or Freddy with Monitor & Abuse.

Maybe try actually playing her seriously instead of coming here and complain. I have watched several streamers play her the past hour

Yes because watching other people play the killer for an hour totally lets you get an accurate read on the powerlevel of a new killer.

if people actually take the time to understand her perks

The killer's teachables are irrelevant to the strength of the killer

She is really strong when it comes to end chases and loops quickly and mindgaming survivors 

Nurse exists

wait you cant see blood without an ultra rare addon? Amazing, even useles at low ranks then....

You can't. I mean, right now you can, but it is a bug and will be fixed. After the fix, you will be able to see ONLY scratchmarks.

LOL and I thought she is trash not knowing about that bug already
Good lord

This is one, of many her problems to be viable, friend.

azazer

CoffengMin said:

quick questuon , does someone know if she can go to a far gen thats being worked on and grab people? i know she cant see while sprinting but you might be able to grab them if you guess where they are

Yes you can. Seen grabs off gens and gate. Trick is to really pay attention to details. Repair noises, moving bushes, the position of the gate switch, crows.

Visionmaker

ZombieGenesis said:

@RSB said:
I don't think so, Janick went with his rude comments, and rejected all negative feedback (reasonable feedback, I would say, made by experienced players). I just think they make underpowered killers, just to buff them in PTB, so the killers are happy, because they have been buffed (placebo), and survivors are happy, because the killer is mid-tier at best.

Unfortunately this. Janick was quite clear that they would only even consider changes to The Spirit based on "analytics". He was shockingly rude and dismissive for someone that I normally think comes off as very chill and cool on the stream. The unfortunate thing is, 2 hours released or not, most of the comments were well thought out and not at all rude or "OMG, she sucks". There were those, sure, but not all of them were. So killers were shown that "it doesn't matter how you present the feedback to us, we don't care". It's truly unfortunate.

Considering how much some people here *CONSTANTLY* rag on devs about knee jerk reactions, I'm not surprised that at least one of them got snippy in response to an obscenely obvious knee-jerk reaction.

Should they have responded in a nicer tone? Yes. But that's why they're not in PR or customer support, lmao.

And don't be surprised if the devs stop taking you guys seriously if you're just going to default to "Omg devs don't care about killers" when they're busting balls to make killer more viable. 

There's a reason why so many game companies completely stop communicating with its player base.. This interaction with Janick is a little taste. Some of the player base can undoubtedly behave in condescending, unappreciative, and self-entitled ways and it takes training and fortitude to respond in the 'right' way.

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Visionmaker

ZombieGenesis said:

Well, I'll say this, we're now over 24 hours since she was released and all of the things people were dubious about yesterday at 2 hours they remain dubious about now at 26 hours. So I'm not sure how "knee jerk" a reaction it was. Again, some people sure made the usual "Killer sucks, garbage chapter" posts but they were actually a minority. Oh well. It is what it is.

It was knee-jerk at the time, for sure. Janick's comment was almost right after release.

I can tell they worked hard on the killer with the detailed animations and super intricate perks, and they want to make sure *everyone* likes her.

In the end, they can't change her until killers get good with her and survivors get good at countering her. Janick had a good point about needing analytics before anecdotes. But of course, he should've been less abrasive with the way he put it.

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Weederick

@ZombieGenesis said:
I haven't been able to play her so maybe it's easier than I'm thinking but how would you know what side of the gen they're on is my real question?

You should play her first. A lot of the complaints are actually cases of git gud. She has potential to be toptier, but it will take 1-2 weeks until both sides figure her out.
I'm very happy about her design and power, we finally got a M2 killer. She may need some QoL-buffs before her release, like the clown. But the complaints on release day are almost never the right feedback.

Giche

@RSB said:

@fcc2014 said:
@rsb > hopefully they will look at these things.

I don't think so, Janick went with his rude comments, and rejected all negative feedback (reasonable feedback, I would say, made by experienced players). I just think they make underpowered killers, just to buff them in PTB, so the killers are happy, because they have been buffed (placebo), and survivors are happy, because the killer is mid-tier at best.

Don't bother, they will group against you and try to make you feel bad about it.

Like every threads down here, plagued by biased survivor main.

AshleyWB

RSB said:

...low tier killer. Really, I think she can aspire to be the new worst killer.

1. She can sprint slower than Billy, she needs to charge her sprint longer than him, her sprint is like 3-5 seconds, and she has a big cooldown for it, when she ends sprinting.
2. While she is sprinting she CAN'T see the survivors. Really, she can't, this is in her basic kit, they are literally invisible for her.
3. I think... she is actually slow as a Huntress?
4. She should not be stunned in one place while charging her power, she should be able to move.

Really, what is this? A crippled Billy? Without being able to see survivors, with a big cooldown, and without ability to hurt survivors with your sprint?

This may be the first Chapter I will not buy for real money, despite the killer looks really really great - she is just as weak as good she looks.

Calm down obvious billy main. She's not hillbilly she's fun and decent killer for the average player. 
And another thing if you think freddys base kit is better then I have to question your sanity. 

AshleyWB

That's the Spirit. New killer rocks wooooooooo!!!

RSB

@ZombieGenesis said:

@RSB said:
I don't think so, Janick went with his rude comments, and rejected all negative feedback (reasonable feedback, I would say, made by experienced players). I just think they make underpowered killers, just to buff them in PTB, so the killers are happy, because they have been buffed (placebo), and survivors are happy, because the killer is mid-tier at best.

Unfortunately this. Janick was quite clear that they would only even consider changes to The Spirit based on "analytics". He was shockingly rude and dismissive for someone that I normally think comes off as very chill and cool on the stream. The unfortunate thing is, 2 hours released or not, most of the comments were well thought out and not at all rude or "OMG, she sucks". There were those, sure, but not all of them were. So killers were shown that "it doesn't matter how you present the feedback to us, we don't care". It's truly unfortunate.

I heard, th> @AshleyWB said:

RSB said:

...low tier killer. Really, I think she can aspire to be the new worst killer.

* She can sprint slower than Billy, she needs to charge her sprint longer than him, her sprint is like 3-5 seconds, and she has a big cooldown for it, when she ends sprinting.
* While she is sprinting she CAN'T see the survivors. Really, she can't, this is in her basic kit, they are literally invisible for her.
* I think... she is actually slow as a Huntress?
* She should not be stunned in one place while charging her power, she should be able to move.

Really, what is this? A crippled Billy? Without being able to see survivors, with a big cooldown, and without ability to hurt survivors with your sprint?

This may be the first Chapter I will not buy for real money, despite the killer looks really really great - she is just as weak as good she looks.

Calm down obvious billy main. She's not hillbilly she's fun and decent killer for the average player. 
And another thing if you think freddys base kit is better then I have to question your sanity. 

Shoo, wild survivor, before you cross the line. Go be an aggresive animal somewhere else. This is a mature, friendly thread.

JEWberry

I don’t understand why all of you are complaining about the killer when it has literally been a day. She literally has very similar advantages that the nurse does with some weaknesses.

She can traverse the map fairly quickly like nurse and billy.

She can negate pallet loops to an extent like nurse and huntress.

She can mindgame very well like huntress and nurse.

Her power has a cooldown when used for extended durations and u cannot see survivors unlike the nurse.
However, if using her power CORRECTLY, the cooldown is very short.

She takes a long time to learn how to play like the nurse and huntress.

All of this combined allows her to down survivors rapidly causing her to snowball out of control like the nurse. 1 day isn’t enough to determine whether or not if she is good or bad but all of her plusses add up to being top-tier. Just because she can’t “see” survivors does not mean she does not know where they are.

RSB

@JEWberry said:
I don’t understand why all of you are complaining about the killer when it has literally been a day. She literally has very similar advantages that the nurse does with some weaknesses.

She can traverse the map fairly quickly like nurse and billy.

She can't she has 20s cooldown after running for ~30m

She can negate pallet loops to an extent like nurse and huntress.

When she tries to outplay the surv, he can just walk away to the next loop unseen.

She can mindgame very well like huntress and nurse.

See above

Her power has a cooldown when used for extended durations and u cannot see survivors unlike the nurse.
However, if using her power CORRECTLY, the cooldown is very short.

If, as you said, she can travel as well as Billy/Nurse, then she needs to suffer from 20s stun. The "correct" use of her power depends on the loop. If we are speaking about 2 "T" walls with vaults and pallet, then she will often need to use whole her power, again suffering from 20s stun.

She takes a long time to learn how to play like the nurse and huntress.

While Nurse can do everything better than her, and Huntress is more rewarding, I would say that Rin is too underpowered for downsides of her power.

All of this combined allows her to down survivors rapidly causing her to snowball out of control like the nurse. 1 day isn’t enough to determine whether or not if she is good or bad but all of her plusses add up to being top-tier. Just because she can’t “see” survivors does not mean she does not know where they are.

Seeing survivors is the last thing she needs. But being able to see blood, see the auras if having an aura reading perks, and reducing the cooldowns and charge time for her power is something she really needs.

Master

@Weederick said:

@ZombieGenesis said:
I haven't been able to play her so maybe it's easier than I'm thinking but how would you know what side of the gen they're on is my real question?

You should play her first. A lot of the complaints are actually cases of git gud. She has potential to be toptier, but it will take 1-2 weeks until both sides figure her out.
I'm very happy about her design and power, we finally got a M2 killer. She may need some QoL-buffs before her release, like the clown. But the complaints on release day are almost never the right feedback.

The cooldown is quite heavy for a M2 killer.... take that and 110%....

Mister_xD

@Peanits said:
CoffengMin said:

quick questuon , does someone know if she can go to a far gen thats being worked on and grab people? i know she cant see while sprinting but you might be able to grab them if you guess where they are

You can. By default, she can move a little more than 32m with her power. So with some practice, you can actually appear behind someone on a generator without ever making a sound. It would be easier with monitor and abuse as well.

and thats exactly why you cant see them
we dont want infinite grabs from gens, so doing that requires some skill to pull off.
she still needs some bufs though (like let her move while charging the ability, make it recover faster and let her see the survivors, while still in trancition phase would be my main 3 points)

Weederick

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@ZombieGenesis said:
I haven't been able to play her so maybe it's easier than I'm thinking but how would you know what side of the gen they're on is my real question?

You should play her first. A lot of the complaints are actually cases of git gud. She has potential to be toptier, but it will take 1-2 weeks until both sides figure her out.
I'm very happy about her design and power, we finally got a M2 killer. She may need some QoL-buffs before her release, like the clown. But the complaints on release day are almost never the right feedback.

The cooldown is quite heavy for a M2 killer.... take that and 110%....

Agree on that. She feels a bit restricted in her M2 usage. Maybe remove the need to be at full charge

steezo_de

If she's somewhere around Clown effectiveness, I'm fine with her. It's only been a day so I'll see how it plays out.

Delfador

@steezo_de said:
If she's somewhere around Clown effectiveness, I'm fine with her. It's only been a day so I'll see how it plays out.

I don't know about that. All of powerful killers are really old. We need a new top tier killer imo. They have nearly done that with the clown but he doesn't have slugging ability and map pressure.

The clown is my favorite though.

Delfador

@Dwights_leftfoot said:

@ZombieGenesis said:
Well, I'll say this, we're now over 24 hours since she was released and all of the things people were dubious about yesterday at 2 hours they remain dubious about now at 26 hours. So I'm not sure how "knee jerk" a reaction it was. Again, some people sure made the usual "Killer sucks, garbage chapter" posts but they were actually a minority. Oh well. It is what it is.

Still doesn't seem like a reasonable amount of time to start crying about a new killer.

When can we start to cry? After ptb when there will be almost no chance to buff her?

RSB

@Delfador said:

@Dwights_leftfoot said:

@ZombieGenesis said:
Well, I'll say this, we're now over 24 hours since she was released and all of the things people were dubious about yesterday at 2 hours they remain dubious about now at 26 hours. So I'm not sure how "knee jerk" a reaction it was. Again, some people sure made the usual "Killer sucks, garbage chapter" posts but they were actually a minority. Oh well. It is what it is.

Still doesn't seem like a reasonable amount of time to start crying about a new killer.

When can we start to cry? After ptb when there will be almost no chance to buff her?

Yes, that would be a suitable time, ask any survivor, he will tell you that.