DS shouldn't work in the gates
Straight up. Decisive should not work if you get picked up in the exit gates. It's way too free and the Killer has no other option so there's zero counterplay currently
(honestly, Decisive shouldn't even work once all the generators are completed because the Killer doesn't really have other options at that point so it's not even tunneling)
Comments
Who doesn't camp in end game? I do, I deserve the kill.
A) DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. Its just a perk. And it works as intended - and should through 100% of the match.
B) Yes, it is still tunneling if you are off-hooked and immediately downed in end-game, it's just understandable game play by the killer because even if there are other options, they are not usually viable options as they otherwise are before the gens are completed.
Also, yes, I feel ENTITLED to have the perks I brought work when I need them. Crazy logic. 😂
So Just let them get out yea entitlement
Then people will move onto the next perks to whine about until everything is nerfed into the ground. Its an endless cycle of bitching and moaning.
You aren't letting them get out, they are escaping because they had the forethought to bring a perk that counters what you're trying to do as a last ditch effort to secure a kill. Also, the ultimate sense of entitlement is saying that someone else's perk should stop working so that you can get one last (or a first) kill in the last seconds of end-game, after they did 99.9% of the work to escape, because you couldn't manage to kill them at any other point during the match. THAT is entitlement. 🙄
People don't usually complain about perks unless they're a problem. If there are no problems there are no complaints, people will complain about something else like swf or matchmaking.
Despite the fact that my favorite moments by far in this game are when I have the gate nearly open, get downed, hit ds, finish opening the gate and escape, I admit it is pretty much bs. I wouldn't complain if ds stopped working once a gate was open.
But slugging is the only reliable counterplay to DS that doesn't involve not playing the game. Unbreakable is counterplay to slugging and requires a perk to execute. Teammates picking you up are counterplay to slugging. Staying in a locker makes the survivor invincible, and is especially BS when combined with Head On or Inner Strength. It's way too powerful for something that takes no skill or opportunity cost, besides just being unhealthy design.
For starters, no it isn't. You can simply not go for the same person within 60 seconds of them getting off-hooked. You can also just take the 5 second stun and remove DS from the rest of the match for that survivor. You can slug them - most people don't have room in their build for unbreakable with all the other perks they have to carry to handle ######### killer game play - same for inner strength, I rarely see people carrying this perk. And if a survivor manages to get you back up, the killer can literally just smack you back down. You're injured, and they probably didn't go far. Nothing makes a survivor invincible - at most, it makes them inconvenient for a little while longer. The DS/Head On/Inner Strength combo you speak sounds nice, but I don't think I've ever specifically seen it. Survivors don't really have the luxury of running perks specifically for a situational locker self-save. Maybe in SWF, but certainly not in solos.
This is such a poor understanding of killer gameplay it's hilarious.
Sometimes not going for the same person is a huge momentum killer. Eating DS is a MASSIVE momentum killer if the survivor team is playing somewhat decently. Not being able to convert a chase into a down because of locker DS can lose you entire games REALLY fast.
Killers are constantly running against the clock. That's just the nature of the role. There should absolutely be a limit for how much of your time a survivor should get to waste without doing anything even remotely skillful. Time is absolutely DBD's currency. Survivors should be rewarded with more time for their teams to do gens if they outplay the killer in chases, but not by pressing spacebar in a locker.
And it doesn't matter that "you can't run all those perks at once". As long as those synergies exist within the game, that's what we should balance around. Your argument is equivalent to saying that Forever Freddy was fine because you had to commit multiple perks and addons to it, but that's why it was nerfed in the first place.
agree
It goes both way. You can still play respectfully and get facecamped and smacked on hook. Certain people just like to be arseholes and there's no changing them.
Technically, choosing to repair generators is still your own choice so...
Spoken like somebody who regularly fails to kill everybody before they finish all 5 gens and thinks people will believe him if he blatantly lies about it. I'm sure you occasionally do pull it off but there's absolutely no "making sure" about it, only the luck of the draw based how how skilled the survivors you got matched with are.
What does repairing generators have to do with anything?
It doesn't. Just like what I quoted it was a stupid thing to say that was completely irrelevant to any point being made.
Actually if your could just read all of the comments it is an important fact to consider. Most people agree tunneling is about choice, and I pointed out that there is still choice...so there is still tunneling.
Noed isn't even that bad its easily countered. People are just to damn lazy to cleanse a damn totem. Ive seen so many people run past them. Ds is easy to deal with. If you know they might have it just smack them down or take the damn stun. You tunnel and you can expect people to use ds.
If they're easily countered why are they so popular?
Killers tell survivors to use perks to counter something, but when they are asked to do the same they somehow don't accept that it's an option. The logic behind this way of thinking is absent to me, although perhaps someone who is of this mind could explain it to you in detail.
What if you don’t have any other option cause the other survivor is at full health?
Well you can camp to secure a kill, but if you don't camp you are risking the survivor being saved and then having DS so they can escape. This is why most killers camp in end game, so they can get guaranteed trades and not have to worry about losing kills.
I agree, but hook grab doesn’t work because of dedicated servers at least on ps4 lately.
This is pretty funny, it's just like killers using the standard "just adapt lul" when survivors complained about everything but apparently "adapting" wasn't an option when Nurse and Spirit got normalized.
True, but doesn't a double hit also guarantee a trade if you are close enough?
And? Being untouchable in the endgame still non skill based win... we are arguing if it is tunneling or not. What OP suggested it shouldn’t work in the endgame.
Well sometimes I try to play fair and look for the other survivor... so I am not called camper. But i learnt lesson...
Tunneling in end game is also non skill based.
Or I'm good at playing the video game Dead by Daylight.
But like can we please stop pretending that DS is an anti-tunnel perk?
That's one of its jobs, but it's not at all the main purpose of the perk. People run it to get one minute of safety after being unhooked, period.
Whether you like it or not, no one would run a perk that only does anything when the killer tunnels hard.
You can always stay away from the hook if you want, but now you know that you risk the unhooked survivor escaping and even the unhooker too if they're healthy. You're not forced to camp per se, but camping is the best option for securing kills. I hope this discussion helped you!
you know what, you are right that survivor deserves the win...
Absolutely!
At the end of the day, both sides have an unskillful interaction. However, I don't want to just keep adding specific stipulations on perks just to take care of those specific scenarios and make the perk description like 20 lines long. It should be pretty simply and straight forward: this perk works for 60 seconds. The end.
And I would agree with you, if certain survivors and teams wouldn’t abuse it. Or the ‘tunneled’ survivor close to the exit gate wouldn’t use it for T-bagging. I believe majority of the killer community has a problem with this perk cause it used for the wrong purpose. Honestly I barely get DS-d cause I don’t tunnel, but in certain situation this is a very annoying perk.
People just need to get a thicker skin. Pixels moving up and down a few times isn't grounds for a nerf because you made a mistake and it made you mad.
Just cause they're easily countered doesn't mean they're going to be any less popular. Bbq and Chili is easily countered but its still used for information and points. Noed is literally in survivor hands. I don't think it should activate if the hatch is closed tho. Rancor doesn't so i don't believe noed should.
It’s not about mistakes, but I don’t wanna go side track from the original post
Neither should NOED then
"Don't tunnel man, it's toxic"
"You should've just eaten the DS man"
"Yeah I eat paint, why?"
It's not a problem for me when I'm Killer so something must be wrong if we're not both feeling the DS burn. Figure it out.
Explain how it's fair that a survivor gets to escape for free after a Killer catches them at endgame(presumably fairly, since DS is still available)
No because the survivors already DID their work to survive so the issue is no longer present.
Survivors: "rework Ebony Mori and hitboxes."
Killers: "Nerf all survivor perks and items"
Can't wait to see the next issue you killers have, though I will side with you on the NOED fiasco.
I want Keys and Moris nerfed. No ED and DS nerfed or reworked. And hitboxes to be more accurate for both sides so no one is confused
No, it's not an automatic win, because you had an entire match that you could have played better up until that point. As someone else said, if you did your job better beforehand, you wouldn't have to rely on hooking the same person twice in a minute at the end. Besides, almost every killer runs NOED these days, and there are a ton of killers with potential one-shots, so you have every opportunity to down the guy who did the unhooking, before and after they try it.
I strongly believe that if they nerf DS or BT in the endgame killers kill percentage will decrease. I've seen many games where survivors turn a 1k into a 4k because they didn't want to leave anyone behind in end game since they have those perks. If they nerf them, it will lead to a boring meta where survivors just leave the last person on hook while the other 2 or 3 escape. The same thing happened with flashlight saves. Now its not worth it because killers can just flick their camera and make it impossible with their 3 second pickup animation. Guess what it lead to? The other 3 survivors rushing gens and not bothering going for saves.
People who think DS is anti tunnel are delusional, If a guy i hook gets unhooked, runs over and unhooks someone else, and they both have DS, is that me tunneling half the team if i'm right there when they are doing this? What am i suppose to just leave them? Not to mention locker tech with DS. It's a stupid perk that only survivors mains defend
DS is a perk with activation requirements. Yes it is used for anti tunneling but that won't always be the case. It's the same as saying NOED is anti genrush even though it can activate after a 20 minutes forever Freddy game when he closes the hatch.
That would mean you play with 3 perks... I don’t use NOED, so I don’t care. But the point of NOED is the endgame.