Dead Hard SHOULD NOT grant immunity against bear traps
So everyone knows about the trick to getting past Trapper's traps just by dead harding over them. Not only is this unfair, it literally makes no logical sense. It is unfair because a survivor basically can completely ignore a trap & extend the chase they were just in. Trapper gets screwed because then he either has to take time to pick up his trap or has to find a different route to continue chase. Not only that, it would be physically impossible in real life to do this to a real bear trap. Dead hard is a dash forward, not a jump, so it doesn't make sense how they wouldn't still get trapped.
I know the ability grants a brief period of immunity to the survivor, but honestly that in itself is so stupid. In general, dead hard shouldn't even negate attacks as it makes zero sense. There are times where you go to hit a survivor & they dead hard either into you or through the area you're hitting at but dead hard trumps the attack registering. I get that is kinda the point of the perk, but in a real situation like this that would never be the case. Dash all you want, if you get hit with a weapon you're gonna get hit lol. Point of this thread is just that dead hard is a far-fetched perk concept.
P.S. I'm not saying Dead Hard is OP by any means. I kinda think it's crap because I just wait out everyone's dead hard anyways. The perk should be just about either trying to make the killer whiff or to reach a pallet/window faster in order to avoid being hit. There shouldn't be an invincibility factor to it that isn't logically correct.
Comments
Just imagine they hopped over it like someone in real life would do....
Just git gud and go around to run them back into the trap
I don't even know why you bother making these posts. Yes it's supposed to bring it to the DEVs attention but let's be honest. The DEVs are going to do what they feel is best, not the majority of the communities opinion. Almost everyone said the ruin change was stupid, survivors and killers both. It made it out of PTB to live. Let's be real. Bhvr makes their own minds up, we have no influence in it.
If you want to bring up whats logical and say the game should work on logic, then the survivors should be able to grab hatchets out of the locker and team up to kill the killer.
The whole point of DH is to give you a small boost and a invincibility frame. So yes it does make sense for dh to go over a bear trap. And being able to dh over a trap doesnt mean its "unfair". Maybe next time you shouldnt make your traps so obvious smh
@NMCKE
Dead Hard is (at best) a counter to 1 trap. If we want to talk about taking away Trapper’s power via a perk then we should be talking about perks like Saboteur which when paired with a map you can literally render all his traps unable to be picked up at all.
Picking up the trap being an inconvenience depends a lot on the location... and personally I don’t feel like it takes that long.
I know about where u can place traps at pallets the reason I bring it up is because by your definition and many on here anything that will hinder a trap not being triggered is being considered “taking away a killer’s power” which i don’t think is the case at all.
Just get good and stop blaming cause you got mad or there better or play billy
Unlike DH, Sabotage takes time and they automatically replenish themselves over two minutes. Furthermore, you will be wasting a lot of time exploring the map for Bear Traps and even then, you can't sabotage traps the killer has in inventory. There are even add-ons for the killer to use, which can be prepped and ready to use if the killer sees too many toolboxes in the lobby. If the killer wants to free up his add-on slots, he can always bring Franklin's to damage and put toolboxes out of play for awhile.
On the other hand, Dead Hard, when used on an armed Bear Trap, can significantly waste a lot of time. You force an animation or make the killer take a detour, either way is too impactful for a low cost of getting Exhausted. You can use exhaustion perks, but if they don't have DH, you waste a perk slot because exhaustion by itself does not do anything.
Another thing:
Dead Hard is (at best) a counter to 1 trap.
Dead Hard doesn't counter one trap, it counters one trap every time it's off cool-down assuming the survivor gets the opportunity to use their perk. Therefore, at most a survivor can use DH to avoid 3 traps of they are smart and keep tabs on you. A good survivor will make your power work against you by baiting you near areas that are normally a guaranteed downed.
You knowing they have DH doesn't allow you to have the opportunity to counterplay them either, so you just have to deal with it.
Sabotage, has counterplay and things to alleviate its effect. Can backfire on survivors who go out of their way to make you a powerless killer for at most, 2 minutes.
Dead Hard, when used correctly, forces the killer to waste time picking up a trap or taking a detour. No way to counter this perk unless they already used it to gain distance on you, and perks that cause exhaustion are extremely ineffective.
@NMCKE
Have you ever played Trapper and more specifically against a sabo squad? I can tell you, you are not going to find a trap in sight. You become an M1 killer without traps.
You are literally using words like “taking the killer’s power away” but you think DH take his power away and Saboteur doesnt?? Lol 😂 ok.
Let’s see, how do you counter a trap that you can’t pick up? 🤔Hmmm hey I have an idea! How about just start tunneling the person you think it’s doing it and waste your time. Oh wait but there is a second and a third person also doing it!
I have never in the 3,000 hrs I have in this game used dead hard over a trap 3 times in the same match. So that isn’t the norm. Still, Dead Hard doesn’t take away Trappet’s power because the trap isn’t taken away from him, the effect is... and there are several other traps so it’s only at that instance that it counters it.
You can throw any variable you want, bottom line is the topic of discussion is a perk that supposedly takes out Trappers power not add ons or specific scenarios. Cuz I mean it we wanna do that I can also say maybe don’t set it where it can be seen. Easy counter.
If think basically having an extra health state as a survivor isnt op your insane. Theres a reason so many people use it in high ranks.
Sabotage squads often shoot themselves in the foot by wasting time sabotaging rather than generators. If they aren't progressing the game by doing their objective, who cares if they take out most of my traps for 2 minutes? If I'm sweaty, I'll just bring bloody coil and let the traps do my job for me. Survivors are trading 4 toolboxes, a health state, and time to disable my power for 2 minutes — as a killer, that's definitely a fair trade because chases are going to be quick.
Dead Hard can easily bypass a trap and make the killer waste time picking up or taking a detour. This gives the survivor an opportunity to make distance and in most cases, free up dead zones. If I make the killer free a pallet from a trap because I used DH, guess what? I'm going to loop that tile because I know it's safe. Killer takes a detour, more time for me to reach another tile and loop.
I experienced this on both sides, perks that enhance powers should be left to add-ons. Perks that renders powers a detriment to the killer should have a hefty cost or have counterplay for the killer. 😁
Example: Calm Spirit doesn't make doctor's power useless because you still give away your position, just not a pinpoint location and you still gain madness.
I always think it's really stupid when people want dead hard nerfed or even removed but I wouldn't be against traps being unaffected by dead hard
You're right, in real life you wouldn't dash past it. Instead, you would simply step over it.
i don't see dead hard as the core problem about bear traps, bear traps effect shouldn't even affect the trapper to be honest as every other killer in the game, the hag dont trigger her own traps, neither the clown get intoxicated by his gas, .
Bear traps have already a fair amount of counters, disarming them or in some situations dodging them, seems like enough to me.
I don't thing logic has anything to do in a game controlled by a supernatural creature called "the Entity" it already defy all real life logic.
Legion also has extended lunge during frenzy .
So the thing wrong with it is that it doesn't work most of the time.
This game doesn't care about logic. DH is fine,it doesn't even work most of the time with dedi servers. Also if you fall for the "I dh into you and make you miss a swing" trick then you are just bad,sorry to say it but you should never fall for it.
That's the same as saying how do you see an aura with bbq after hooking someone lmao. Doesn't make any sense/logic, does it? Entity doesn't care about logic.
I think The Trapper should be uncatchable with his own traps.
Poor you. Now you actually have to play rather then placing bear traps every 30 feet 😢
Dude stop dead hard is op when killers have no ed,blood warden and even Franklins like seriously you dead harded over my trap. It negates all damage or negative effects so obviously it doesn't work please you see through the eyes of a killer and it's bad look at it from both sides.
Maybe they will have an add on for that like a jump mechanic whenever he's near a trap by 1 meter.
And how exactly did you adress the problem with traps? Just because its not OP doesnt mean it can be bullshit.
Yes, DH is broken because of servers. But it doesnt mean you should be able to dodge traps
You need to be injured to use DH and when you do manage to use it, 90 percent of the time it fails to grant immunity period. The perk is already in a hard place because they can't get dedicated servers in a decent state.
Tell me how dashing/dodging can let you not get caught in a trap. Lets add a "Jump" perk if you want to do that.
I think it's a fair counterplay. Survivors only get one DH per chase since the exhaustion nerf so using it to dodge ONE trap one time isn't really a big deal. It can buy a survivor a couple seconds but you still have exhaustion add-ons, bloodlust, a good setup (if you get cute with trap placement), 4 perk slots, and shorter loops (thank you devs) to help you down them. DH isn't some god tier invincibility perk; killers play around it and still do well in matches everyday. You get it ONCE now and that's when it actually works or when killers aren't running some addon or perk to completely disable it.
well, considering the setting we are in it does kinda make sense.
like, we're in a whole different world / dimension controlled by the Entity, therefore aura reading doesnt need to be unrealistic.
however, judging by how beartraps work in this game, avoiding one by running over it does not make any sense.
yeah we're in a supernatural setting here, but there are still quite a few elements that are realistic. and judging by how a beartrap catches running survivors that step on it in both worlds, avoiding it by running over it really is stupid...
Ah yes back at it again with making DH the worst exhaustion perk
You’re basing your analysis of DH against one killer. DH is so easily baited that it’s not an issue. Half the survivors I play against that use it, hit a wall. Just because it’s bullshit against one killer doesn’t mean it’s bullshit entirely.
Sure, but that’s more of a connectivity issue and not the perk itself. I’ve had instances where it has worked and then hasn’t in the exact same match. Or it might just be bad timing on my behalf and the killer executed an attack before I hit my action key.
DH is not nearly as “OP” as perks like DS or BT. You can counter DH. As I mentioned to another, it’s easy to bait a player to early use of DH.
It’s not really an extra health state lol. If that’s the case, then every time a killer swings and misses that survivor just received an extra health state. No.
I use DH because it’s just useful in certain situations, it is literally not a broken perk or “OP” perk. I have had it fail as many times as work. Idk man, I just don’t see a problem with DH. I believe it’s a well-balanced perk since there are variables that make it go bad or good and it still leads to you being exhausted if executed perfectly.
Yeah, you are 100% right. Thats why only the interaction Bear Trap <---> Dead Hard should be adjusted, everything else is fine. And all bugs have to be fixed obviously.
I agree. But the issue with them fixing the interaction between Bear Traps and DH is it could interfere with the damage resistance factor of DH. It just needs to be left as is. I highly doubt this happens frequently. Maybe complain about crouching over traps, but not about using a perk that avoids damage (not saying you are complaining).
So first you start the post saying it's op and makes literally no sense but then end the post saying it's crap and not op at all....make up your mind because you sound really dumb, and dead hard is a great perk paired with no mither for very obvious reasons
If its done well, I dont think it would interfere, just make Traps ignore iframes, DH is the only perk that uses them.
It does happen frequently, you can say it happens all the time while trapping pallets. Survivior loops you, so you trap the pallet during chase to disable the loop, survivior DH and now the loop is disabled for you, he doesnt even need to drop the pallet... And no, you cant crouch through Bear Traps, that works only with Hag.
I don’t play much survivor nor against trapper so my fault for not fact checking.
However, why shouldn’t survivors be able to counter a trapper countering a loop? That’s balanced. Because if they fail the DH they’re trapped.
Its almost impossible to fail DH on a Trap. And loop trapping is countered by leaving the loop. Just like with Hag for example. Killers like Doctor, Hilbilly, Nurse, Demogorgon, Hag, Spirit or even Cannibal and Clown can force you to abandon the loop, why Trapper shouldnt be able to? And none of their powers are countered by DH.
Everyone except Clown can have their powers countered by DH in certain circumstances. You can against clown to if he doesn’t have certain add ons.
Shhhhh about the traps. If you talk about them too much, the devs will take them away.
Sure dude you only use it cause its sometimes useful, uh huh, by this logic ruin was a weak perk since it got taken out early so much since there were so many variables that led to it being inconsistent like totem spawns, player spawns, gen spawns, etc. And as such needed a buff not a nerf.
Dead hard in its current state is generally fine, but I'm thinking about how the concept behind the perk is flawed. I don't usually have a problem with the perk unless I play Trapper, & in certain cases it can screw over a killer completely. Even if the perk doesn't work correctly a good amount of the time it shouldn't have the ability to hard counter a trap.
Sure dude?
Is this a PC thing? I do not experience these issues on Xbox. Even in my time playing a trapper I never even paid attention this small detail.
just no, just no
That's why you don't place Traps on standing pallets. I wouldn't even do it if I had the Iri. Stone
Sure dude, but without a question mark cause that not a question
Agreed 100%.
I understand this is a horror 'fantasy' game...but the fact you can run over a bear trap defies logic.
One of Trapper's major tactics is to hit a survivor, putting them in to a panic and having them carelessly run in to a trap.
With Dead Hard, this is easily overcome. And that's not right.
Well, not so long ago there was a change to one certain perk that gave faster recovery from stuns to recovery from only pallet stuns (and some extra conditions if its Wraith). So, ugh, you know, for consistancy reasons this perk probably should be looked at.
So no, most of these killers can force you to leave the loop even if you have DH, so there is nothing wrong with Trapper being able to disable loops too. DH is fine, but shouldnt be able to counter Bear Traps
They could make it so dead harding over a trap still closes the trap but doesn't trap the survivor. This would completely fix the issue of Trapper having to pick up his trap to continue a chase.