Tru3Ta1ent speaks the TRUTH
https://youtu.be/DsRO2_gbq7k?t=6m53s
"Get rid of Decisive, Insidious, and NOED and rank would be a lot more skill based."
He is 100% right. DS and NOED are crutch perks for bad players. Killers defend NOED until they are blue in the face but at the end of the day it's there as a comeback mechanic for when you fail, making it a crutch (just like DS). If you need this perk to get kills, accept that you aren't as good a killer as you might think. And if you complain about DS but use NOED you are nothing but a hypocrite.
I agree with him on Insidious only because it makes people play like trolls, not necessarily because it's a crutch. With a few tweaks I think it could be salvaged.
BTW I got to rank 1 with Freddy without using NOED, just incase someone wants to tell me "git gud". Also I'm sure some killer main will say something like "Tru is a bad killer" as a way to dismiss his statements, when the truth is they just can't stand when one of their own actually tells it how it is.
Come at me.
Comments
I would love it, if Blood Warden was activatable by pressing a button. Not by hooking someone after the gate has been opened. Punish teabaggers at the exit gate would become my new hobby.
NOED isn't on the same level as DS due to the fact that it can be removed before it even has a chance to come in to play. Also, NOED doesn't reward you for failing. This idea of the game being over when the Gens are done is stupid. The game isn't over until it's actually, you know, over.
Populism in it's natural habitat
X said so, it means it's true! he's the only one who spoke out!
1) you need to listen to qualified experts. Not randos who guess, but those that did math and know exactly all corner cases AND inner mechanics of the game. Thank god right now the dude is working on fixing issues. There are simply too many for him to fix in one go
2) you should have your own opinion
3) he's NOT the only one who spoke out, he just does it louder (covering more ears) than others.
ps: NOED rewards survivor mistakes. DS rewards survivor mistakes. Kinda makes you think
You realise DS hard counters NOED, right??
You realise DS hard counters NOED, right??
The thing that made looping so powerful as it is?
NOED, Ruin, etc.. Are the reason why I run Small Game. There are counterplays to hex perks. You just have to stop with the 'Bwohohoo, but it's a badd-o perk-u daze!' stuff and just start, you know, destroying all totems before doing all gens? Survivors want to gen rush. And the majority of Hexes are made exactly to counter that.
DS is not exactly fair, I'll give you that though. 4.8 second stun at worse that are uncounterable if you get the obsession. Unless, of course, you use Save the best for last OR enduring. OR, since DS is only once per match, catch someone and catch them again. But that's just going back to the drawing board now, is it?
Everything in a game is possibly counterable. The difficulty to do so, however, shows how OP something is. NOED is medium-difficulty: you have to waste precious gen-rush time to find the 5 unlit totem OR try your luck and hope the killer doesn't have NOED.
DS is medium-hard difficulty: The survivor has just a free get out of jail card, and even with both perks the normal non-obsessed survivors can still have a chance of escaping if you're near a pallet or a window.
Solution? Make DS escape the grasp ONLY to the obsession, and to the non-obsessed people give them continuous skill checks while wiggling once per match, to wiggle even faster. The flavor of the decisive strike is not lost, since the continuous mid-wiggling strikes (skill checks) can weaken the killer's grasp (wiggle meter) up to a point where they can escape it. It could be a good combo with boil over, and the obsession's DS will be replaced with the non-DS one, but with the stun of the same duration. So, the obsession will still have the upper hand but will have to reach 35% of the wiggle meter. It gives the killer a window to counter the perk.
As for NOED, I never thought that much of it until this thread. Surprisingly a big part of the community hates it. Weird by my end, but whatever. I can see people are mad at the instant-downing of survivors, so why not make it related to fit the flavor of the perk of survivors trying to escape from a blood-lusted killer? It could do so that if a survivor gets unhooked while the exit gates are powered, you gain the chance to.. Mori that survivor? Hinder him? Make so that he can't escape for X seconds? Give the killer bloodlust for X seconds? I never really thought of this perk that much, since it never gave me real problems with Small Game.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any real idea on how to improve perks you don't like, or are you just gonna whine about it while not giving any idea to the ones that have to change/rework it for you? How can you wish for something if you don't even know what to wish for? You would just delete the perks?
Edit: Grammar checks
You realise you double posted this, right?
Its the same premise that Survivors use to justify DS. “It’s the Killers fault for catching me. Should have chased someone else.” When we all know that’s a load of bullshit.
”LULZ should have broke the totems!” = “LULZ should have chased someone else!”
You're leaving out some critical stuff again like the fact you said one thing then said you meant something different. Then later on you changed your story again and said that what you said wasn't what you meant and you never said it. This despite you claiming 2 different things earlier.
Late-game builds are exactly about letting the Survivors get closer to escaping while you become more powerful. That's not failure; that's strategy.
As for breaking the totems being equal to the Survivors' "idea" on how to counter DS, that's bullshit. Breaking totems guarantees NOED will not trigger, thus giving your team the upper hand. Chasing someone else will give the Survivors the advantage. Like all Survivor "ideas" on how to counter something, it's always bad for the Killer.
I never said "The Nightmare", and always only specifically mentioned his perks ("The Nightmare's perks"). Some people just forgot that perks are teachable.
1.) The killer is sacrificing 1 perk slot for a strong late game with instant downs so of course it's gonna be easy to go against a killer with less perks.
2.) The perk can be disabled before even activated which not any perk besides Huntress Lullaby has that weakness.
3.) NOED isn't DS, don't compare them two when DS has no easy counter and when NOED does.
4.) If NOED is a crutch then you minus well say Blood Warden is a crutch too since it blocks the exit gates and gives the killer a "free kill".
5.) NOED has been nerfed multiple amount of times, what's next?
PATCH NOTES:
NOED: Tier 3 no longer causes the exposed status effect on all survivor.
^ I'm calling it right now ^
6.) NOED is a strong alternative to ruin since it punishes gen rushing. If every survivor is on generators and not totems then your guaranteeing yourself a strong late game!
Overall the main reason why people think NOED is a crutch perk is because it's not fun for the survivor to get instant-downed. I would say for an rework... either give the killer 30% faster successful attack cool down or make NOED cause a BT bleed out timer instead of just going down instantly.
Again a thread about that crybaby talking more of his crap?
Not gonna bother watching anything related to him sorry.
DS needs soon nerf, the trials are too fast to have more escapes.
Adrenaline needs changes it's too powerful.
NOED is a perk hex totem finisher, it can be countered if u do more than just repair.
Right now killers like Freddy or Wraith kinda need noed tho since they're weak af. However if they get stronger after their reworks they might not need that perk anymore. We shall see
EDIT: Yes I also play Freddy without Noed in rank 1, but if there's 3 people in the endgame with exit gates open, then Freddy can't do ######### so noed is needed right now
LOL don't flatter yourself. I've been playing Freddy since he came out.
You can easily avoid DS by not picking up the obsession. You can also run Enduring and just eat it. You can also run Remember Me or STBFL if you wanna punish the group for having someone using DS. DS has counters, but that doesn't make it any less of a crutch. NOED is the same.
Yes, this is the common scenario with NOED. Sometimes they get more than 2 and all because a perk carried them. That is the definition of a crutch. I have almost never faced off a killer using NOED their either 1) was complete garbage and could barely catch one person all game even when you don't gen rush, or 2) did exactly what you talk about here. I've also never faced a GOOD killer that used NOED. It's always ALWAYS the most unskill killers that use it, and you can immediately tell they are bad when they chase you and fall for every mindgame, get looped at unloopable pallets, and swing 10 times before landing a hit.
Ask me if I care. Not to mention I don't play the game on PC.
You failed to kill anyone before the gates were powered. That's failure on the killers part. They did NOTHING to earn it. At the very least with DS you have to hit a skill check. NOED is just given to you if you played poorly. The difference between NOED and other endgame perks is that it takes some SKILL to activate those perks. RM requires you to find and hit your obsession 6 times, then kill them. Blood Warden requires you to hook someone after the gates are open. NOED... you do nothing and get it. That's why it rewards failure.
"Game is not finished until you see the point screen" is like saying "Giants lead the Jets 1000-2 but the Jets can still make a comeback". No if the exit gates are powered and all 4 survivors are alive that's basically a loss. If the killer expressed some SKILL during the game then they wouldn't be in that situation, and if they used skillful end game perks they can extend the game in their favor. By that logic if a killer goes around and slugs everyone with 5 gens left, and no one has Unbreakable, "OMG we can still win this guys!" No there are some scenarios where it's just a loss waiting to happen.
The thing with negative feedback loops, or "comeback mechanics" is that they are SPECIFICALLY designed to circumvent skilled play. The Blue Shell in Mario Kart is there to help bad players get ahead of good players. That doesn't mean it's healthy for games to reward players that are bad. It's the reason items are banned in Smash Bros, because they are there only to help bad players. Case and point, Ken vs. CPU in the Nintendo's sponsors Brawl tournament. Ken, literally the best player in the world, lost to a nobody kid that just spammed items on a really lame stage. Ken didn't use items and lost specifically for that reason. The pokeballs and assist trophies did all the work for him. If you're goal is to create a fun, competition-free game then yes, comeback mechanics are great. But when it comes to competitive games, which DBD gameplay arguably is as the devs have stated they wanted a "tug of war" type of gameplay when they introduced emblems, it just ruins the game. Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is another great example of bad comeback mechanics in a competitive style game. X-factor is the comeback mechanic in that game, and some players completely rely on it with a powerful anchor character to just plow through the enemy. When they are on the brink of losing, legit losing because they got outplayed, they just land 1 opener, pop X-factor, and completely demolish 3 characters in a row because of how strong it was on the last guy. None of these mechanics are acceptable to top level players. The only ones that accept them are the bad players than can't win any other way.
Snowballing isn't something that should be stopped. If a player/team is that good that they just wipe the floor with you then that's how it should go. You shouldn't get a boost because you got bodied. Imagine any sport that had a comeback mechanic. OMG Yankees lead Redsox 50-1, so last inning the Redsox get a bonus "homerun derby" round where they can score more points to catch up. See how awful that sounds? These mechanics are there to remove skill from the equation, which again isn't a bad thing if your goal is to have a non-competitive atmosphere. But DBD is competitive in nature, so these types of mechanics only ruin the experience. NOED/DS are both in this category, hence why they are two of the most despised perks in the game.
It is and has been my own opinion that both DS and NOED are crutch perks and don't belong in the game. Tru had the same sentiment, and he is a popular streamer/YT'er that is mostly a killer main where most killer mains defend NOED to the death. This is a case of "from the horse's mouth", which is why all the killer mains are denouncing his statements. Had he said "NOED should be a permanent thing" I bet you anything these same people would be praising his opinion.
Yes exactly. Just because NOED can be nullified doesn't make it any less of a crutch. DS can be countered too, but no one here will argue that it's not a crutch because of that.
Not to mention, where other totems only require you to destroy 1 totem, NOED requires you to destroy 5. Sometimes that's not an option, especially if you play solo. You have no control over how fast your team does gens, you have no way to know how many totems they broke, and on top of it all there is always ALWAYS that 1 totem that well hidden somewhere on the map that you may never find. Saying players should destroy all 5 totems is as reasonable a counter as saying "juggle every survivor to every hook, every time".
A lot of killers can't do much when gates are powered and 3 survivors still alive. At this point, any killer would be happy to get 1 more kill. Expecting a killer to win in this situation is like expecting a lone Dwight to finish 2 gens with Ruin and Dying Light active so he can hatch.
Also I guess you missed the part where I said I play Freddy at rank 1 without NOED right? It's not at all NEEDED, and if you think that but don't consider it a crutch you are a hypocrite.
I love this argument. "DS and NOED do different things DURRR so they aren't the same DURRR". Look at the end result.
DS: Does a survivor escape when they shouldn't have? Yes.
NOED: Does a killer get a kill when they shouldn't have? Yes.
That's what makes it a crutch. It rewards bad play, it's a comeback mechanics for unskilled players, it comes at no cost to the player and is just given to them.
Do they have counters? Yes. Doesn't make their results any less damning.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMKJtVdFeY
He TOTALLY deserved the 4K at the end. His “Skill” was so awesome during that match. It’s not like NOED didn’t carry his ass from going from a possible 2k when he caught one dude at the end and was going to camp hard. He didn’t camp though, cause LULZ NOED.
Face the fact, NOED carries bad Killers. Not as hardcore as DS carries bad Survivors mind you, but it’s still stupid. It cheats Survivors out of a win they deserve.
This is true but there is a problem with removing NOED from the game in this current state.
Games are just so fast for most of the killers. There are 2 ways to prevent this. Killers will either take the chance to run hex:ruin and hope that survivors won't find it in the first 10 seconds of the game so that they can have a little bit chance to win or they use NOED and get all of their kills at the end of the game.
If the devs can find a solution for more consistent game play and +8-10 min matches I am all for removing NOED. Right now, sometimes survivors take things slowly and killers can find enough time to do what they have to do, sometimes survivors ignore chests, totems and even other survivors on the hooks and gen rush the killer. Since most of the killers are not able to pressure gens, the game is at the hands of the survivors. NOED is one of the few counters against short matches.
Everything comes to balance of the game and killers like freddy, wraith, trapper needs a little bit help. NOED becomes really problematic if billies and nurses use it.
Again, I'm not saying the game doesn't need fixes in other places. What I am saying is that crutch perks are not the solution. They just ruin the experience, remove skill from the equation, and ultimately piss off the player base.
Furthermore, killers that don't get a single kill until endgame, even if the others rush gens, are flat out just bad killers. Besides the fact that you don't even need to kill people to pip as killer (it's almost laughable how easy it is to pip as killer with emblems), any decent killer will be able to catch/hook most survivors and get someone before end game. The problem is that majority of killers that use NOED aren't even that decent at the game, they literally rely on NOED to carry them to get kills. THAT is the problem, that bad killers are rewarded way more than they should be.
Although Nurse and NOED are too powerful, devs will not remove NOED or nerf nurse. NOED will shut up bad killers, and give them chances to play a game that is survivor sided, Nurse will shut up good players and give them the chance to annihilate survivors.
This is why these threads will not change anything tbh. It is a tactic. Instead of trying to fix core issues, Devs have chosen to give multiple very powerful resources like NOED, DS, bloodlust to both sides. After a little nerf to exhaustion, they got crap reviews from survivors. Just imagine what will happen if they touch bloodlust, DS, NOED etc.
If they remove NOED before fixing other issues, it will have a really bad impact on the game. That is all I am saying. These suggestions will not change anything.
So letting survivors make points and pip is now failure. Better basement camp them from the start. Orders received!
Your analogy isn't very accurate.
A killer with Blood Warden and NOED can turn a 0k into a 4k. Killer wasted 2 perk slots for this very moment. He didn't had those 2 perks during the rest of the match. Effectively gimping himself.
As I said, its a strategy. A gamble.
DS isn't. But nice of you, that you agree on slugging DS users. Maybe dribble them to the hook.
Letting the other side win is a failure. You shouldn't just let it happen, you should be trying to kill people. Also, most bad killers don't "let" it happen, it happens because they are bad, hence they failed. NOED rewards failure as much as DS does.
A strategy for end game should involve some skill on the killers part. That's why Remember Me and Blood Warden aren't crutch perks because they require you to do something for them to have an affect. NOED doesn't, it just requires you fail, making it a comeback mechanic and a crutch. If your strategy is "let them win" then you shouldn't be rewarded for that. If your strategy is "use early/mid game to prepare for end game" that is something to reward.
Also, DS can be considered a "gamble" by your logic, as you failed to escape the killer then need to hit a skill check. A much lesser gamble, but still a gamble. You are also betting that the killer isn't running an obsession perk. If they run Remember Me or Dying Light you are gambling your team's ability to escape, since you getting caught/dying will punish them. Does any of that still make DS okay? No, so then why is NOED okay when it's basically the same thing for killers?
DS requires the survivor to fail at hiding, fail at juking but to hit a skill check to get a free out of jail card.
Ohh and the way the devs want this game to be played, is spending as much time as possible in a match. 4k with 5 gens? A black pip.
DS requires a skill check. Wow, look it's so hard to do either of these things!
Just love the hypocrisy here. "DS requires survivors to fail, but NOED doesn't require killer to fail". SMH
Bullshit. I've 4k'd with 5 gens in games that lasted less than 5 minutes and easily pip or double pip as killer. Good job trying to make up nonsense though, maybe if I never played a single killer game in my life I'd fall for it.
Actually, I call NOED a crutch perk because it activates with zero input from the killer (easy to use), and gives a strong boost for essentially losing most of the game.
A crutch perk doesn't mean it is without counters. Like its name implies, a crutch helps a lesser player achieve more for little to no input. NOED doesn't require any skill (aside from protecting one totem) to utilize and the benefits reaped are tremendous compared to other perks.
Unlike Blood Warden, which rewards the killer for catching their prey last minute with precise timing, NOED has no such condition. Also, the benefits of Blood Warden are far outweighed by NOED, on a timer.
It is indeed an alternative to Ruin, as it demands survivors to cleanse each and every totem lest they face the severe penalties, and guarantees a collective few minutes of time off generators even if inactive.
It's less about being unfun, it's about skill/input to benefit ratio. I personally like NOED, but I think it would be disingeuous for me to not call it as the crutch it is.
It doesn't really matter how often or how much something is nerfed either. It's done being nerfed when its effectiveness is aligned with other perks, not when x number of nerf patches is met. Ex: just because survivors have been nerfed recently doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be nerfed any further.
And just because DS is more egregious of a crutch perk, doesn't mean NOED is less of a crutch. They're both crutches. DS should go first, of course, but NOED should be looked at also since it runs under the same principles. Granted, only if it's overused.
Insidious = listen for the killer
NOED = destroy totems in advance
Decisive = the change is incoming
/tschau
/greetz
You can start fixing it by making being injured actually affect your medkit. (Slows your actions speed greatly) and limiting self-healing to only medkits. With 2 hits and 3 hooks available, there is no reason for injured status to simply be an animation change with some extra tracking attached. Obviously, several perks would need reworking, and many more can be altered to mitigate some of the penalties from injured.
You cannot do it if he catches someone early, especially if he has Ruin.
5 totems + 5 gens is just not doable within' 2mins as 3 players.
Throw in a Doctor/Billy/Huntress and it's not feasible especially on wide open maps and or where gens are too close together.
Sucks if you are caught first, but if its a bad killer, it was just luck the first time, and he wont down any other survivors before generators are done and all totems cleansed. If its a good killer, he will down others and deserves the kills.
If NOED is the cause of your demise, its only because Survivors took the risk and failed.
This. You survivors wanna gen rush and not break any dull totems? Then you have no right to complain about getting owned by NOED. You've made your bed now lie in it.
You could get rid of every single perk in the game and it won't fix anything.
The core gameplay aswell as the map design is flawed.
The time pressure on the killer is what make the mobile killer (nurse and hillbilly) god tier.
But on the other end doing gens is boring and adding more time to them will enrage a lot of people, they mentionned adding more objectif but when? since it's not planned for next patch. 3 month? 6 month? 1 year?
Some maps have way to much safe pallet other, mainly the coldwinfarm map have pretty much none.
Most "LOS breaker" have holes in them making the juke possibility of said LOS breaker close to none for both side.
Stealth as litle to no value because it isn't rewarded, not only bp wise but also emblem wise since someone that get into chase will tend to have a better evader emblem that someone that managed to not get spotted once.
the fact that a semi decent survivor can hold a semi decent killer long enought for 2 or 3 gen will raking a ######### tonne of bp doesn't help make stealth attractive.
The dev have let the meta stall on both side for way to long.
The dev want to have tournament and a leader board, despite the fact that the dev don't seem to want to balance the game like a competitive one by fear of making casual and new player go away.
The dev want to buff solo survivor to be on par with swf to be able to buff killer after wich is fine on paper but how are they going to buff them?
How are they going to buff killer to deal with survivor that will soon get a mountain of free information making them close to be omniscient.
Like don't people realise how powerfull of a tool it is just to know that another survivor is currently being chased?
Or that the killer is still close by or simply showing wich way the killer is heading with the soon (maybe) to be free kindred?
Was that before the emblem system?
I can proof it by presenting you a screenshot. But then you probably say that's because I used add-on X and offering Y and that it doesn't count, bla bla.