I'm going to assume the Survival-Rate of Red Rank SWF is significantly higher than the overall average for the player-base. Would it be possible to see that statistic?
Other useful statistics that would help measure the influence a SWF group has are:
Frequency of aura-reading perks (Spine Chill, Alert, etc) - I'm expecting SWF to equip less aura-reading perks than Solo Players due to the communication advantage
Generator Repair Rate whilst a Survivor is being chased - Again due to the communication advantage, SWF groups should have a higher rate than Solo Players
Killer Power Success Rate - Killers such as The Pig, The Shape, The Trapper should have a lower success rate at triggering their powers than The Nurse, The Hillbilly, The Cannibal. This is due to SWF communication nullifying stealth and traps mechanics
Hex Perk Removal Rate - Again due to the communication advantage, SWF groups should have a higher rate than Solo Players
These are a few useful statistics but should hopefully indicate how influential an SWF group is and why they can be rather annoying to play against as Killer (especially in Red Rank).
Red rank survivors derank allot because wait times are longer and they get the same killers over and over again.
Balancing the game on a metric that is not important to pips, and nobody cares about because they actively want to be killed to derank is a terrible idea.
How many times have you gotten extra kills after the gates are open?
now how many of the dead survivors do you think got a pip anyway?
Red rank survivors derank allot because wait times are longer and they get the same killers over and over again.
Balancing the game on a metric that is not important to pips, and nobody cares about because they actively want to be killed to derank is a terrible idea.
How many times have you gotten extra kills after the gates are open?
now how many of the dead survivors do you think got a pip anyway?
You need to look beyond Pip-Rate.
Other metrics are needed to look at how fair or enjoyable certain aspects of the game are. The game may be balanced with regards to Ranks/Match-making, but if the game feels unfair due to harsh/luck-based mechanics or not enjoyable due to boring/annoying game-play, then players are going to leave and play something else.
Metrics to indicate fairness, enjoy-ability, etc, are needed to ensure the game is still fun and engaging to play.
Other metrics are needed to look at how fair or enjoyable certain aspects of the game are. The game may be balanced with regards to Ranks/Match-making, but if the game feels unfair due to harsh/luck-based mechanics or not enjoyable due to boring/annoying game-play, then players are going to leave and play something else.
Metrics to indicate fairness, enjoy-ability, etc, are needed to ensure the game is still fun and engaging to play.
i only responded as i did because you are asking for a metric that is meaningless.
Survival rate is meaningless because people do stupid things that get them killed when they shouldn't or want to get killed.
i agree that we need to balance on other metrics, but it seems the devs will not do that.
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
That's right. SWF also has a psychological factor to it. When you get bullied and feel powerless during the match as a killer, even if SWF gets super altruistic at the end of the game and you manage to 2k-4k, it still feels miserable, because it was a gamble, started and lost by SWF.
And one more thing to keep in mind: SWF can afford to be MUCH more altruistic and STILL have higher escape rate than soloq. Soloq definitely needs many more buffs, preferably on game-machanic level.
Speaking of a better metric, perhaps average time it takes to complete 1/2/3/4/5 gens in games can give more insight.
It's literally impossible to buff killers in any meaningful way to be on par with/deal with SWF without breaking or completely redesigning the game, given the amount of free information the latter has.
There's a reason why there aren't any proposed killer buffs or ideas ever directly mentioned by the devs with regards to SWF parity - they're never coming, ever.
It's literally impossible to buff killers in any meaningful way to be on par with/deal with SWF without breaking or completely redesigning the game, given the amount of free information the latter has.
There's a reason why there aren't any proposed killer buffs or ideas ever directly mentioned by the devs with regards to SWF parity - they're never coming, ever.
To redesign the game would not be necessary.
Buffs of the one or other killer, on the other hand...
Swfs will always be a part of the game. Even if bhvr would forbid them, the people would still connect via ts and other services. Besides, it would be pretty stupid to forbid something that is natural for a multiplayer game.
The consequence is, that the one or other thing needs to be buffed on the killer side.
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
Your last point is exactly the point. No one really cares how much more likely they are to escape. People just dislike how hopeless, alienating, and down right unfair it can feel when you face a SWF using comms. The Killer is ONE player, and when three or four other players come in and basically bully them and take away any semblance of fun then there is an issue.
This isn't to mention how toxic they can be to any other Survivor in the game that isn't part of their group.
I am much much much more scared of a team with 4 randoms but very efficient survivors than most SWF groups.
When I check their profiles and it's a 4-man I bring an insurance ebony mori in case they're too tryhard. Other than that, SWF is not a problem. The things 4 very efficient survivors can do in some maps is THE problem, just like some killers lacking options in certain scenarios.
(when I say some killers I mean the actual low tier killers. Anything Plague tier or above has plenty of options in most matches).
They're not gonna nerf SWF. They're not gonna blacklist comms. The ability to see who's in a group without checking profiles is important imo so you can take the appropriate precautions, but only if there's a timeout for excessive lobby dodging.
As killer, you have the gift of information before the game starts. Use it to your favor. Bring OP stuff if you think they're bringing OP stuff. Sometimes you misjudge and get cucked but I really don't think SWF is a problem. Let's be real, most of the times you lose it's because you misplayed or the map was bs or both. Not because people are smack talking each other on Discord.
thats mainly because its rare to go against a serious swf they often will just mess around. the best example of this is the depip squad who won like 100 games with no one dieing because they didn't care about anything except everyone surviving as fast as possible.
Buffs of the one or other killer, on the other hand...
Swfs will always be a part of the game. Even if bhvr would forbid them, the people would still connect via ts and other services. Besides, it would be pretty stupid to forbid something that is natural for a multiplayer game.
The consequence is, that the one or other thing needs to be buffed on the killer side.
Ah, yet another non-answer to the impossible question.
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
Especially with broken Object of Obsession perk + voice comm. At least do something about this perk please!
So, theoretically, survivors all gain the ability to know if they are being chased/cleansing(with a totem counter)/repairing, effectively knowing what they're all doing at any given time, as well as whether the killer is occupied.
There's no possible universal buff that killers can get to compensate.
I don’t want SWFs nerfed. Most people purchase games to make friends/play with their friends. There should be perks to vsing SWF though... maybe like 25% more BP for each member in their group... that would be nice and fair.
you can’t buff killers cause randoms get dominated 90+% of the time in my experience. I very seldom lose to a group of randoms... (could be SWF When I lose, but I don’t like to assume.)
Bumping solo players' level of communication to that of a SWF team and balancing killers around that is exactly what the game needs. For once, I'm actually excited to see the where the game is headed balance wise!
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Comments
Red rank survivors derank allot because wait times are longer and they get the same killers over and over again.
Balancing the game on a metric that is not important to pips, and nobody cares about because they actively want to be killed to derank is a terrible idea.
How many times have you gotten extra kills after the gates are open?
now how many of the dead survivors do you think got a pip anyway?
You need to look beyond Pip-Rate.
Other metrics are needed to look at how fair or enjoyable certain aspects of the game are. The game may be balanced with regards to Ranks/Match-making, but if the game feels unfair due to harsh/luck-based mechanics or not enjoyable due to boring/annoying game-play, then players are going to leave and play something else.
Metrics to indicate fairness, enjoy-ability, etc, are needed to ensure the game is still fun and engaging to play.
i only responded as i did because you are asking for a metric that is meaningless.
Survival rate is meaningless because people do stupid things that get them killed when they shouldn't or want to get killed.
i agree that we need to balance on other metrics, but it seems the devs will not do that.
Where's the dev post? I feel like I went up and down this thread and can't find it.
Page one.
That's right. SWF also has a psychological factor to it. When you get bullied and feel powerless during the match as a killer, even if SWF gets super altruistic at the end of the game and you manage to 2k-4k, it still feels miserable, because it was a gamble, started and lost by SWF.
And one more thing to keep in mind: SWF can afford to be MUCH more altruistic and STILL have higher escape rate than soloq. Soloq definitely needs many more buffs, preferably on game-machanic level.
Speaking of a better metric, perhaps average time it takes to complete 1/2/3/4/5 gens in games can give more insight.
It's literally impossible to buff killers in any meaningful way to be on par with/deal with SWF without breaking or completely redesigning the game, given the amount of free information the latter has.
There's a reason why there aren't any proposed killer buffs or ideas ever directly mentioned by the devs with regards to SWF parity - they're never coming, ever.
To redesign the game would not be necessary.
Buffs of the one or other killer, on the other hand...
Swfs will always be a part of the game. Even if bhvr would forbid them, the people would still connect via ts and other services. Besides, it would be pretty stupid to forbid something that is natural for a multiplayer game.
The consequence is, that the one or other thing needs to be buffed on the killer side.
Your last point is exactly the point. No one really cares how much more likely they are to escape. People just dislike how hopeless, alienating, and down right unfair it can feel when you face a SWF using comms. The Killer is ONE player, and when three or four other players come in and basically bully them and take away any semblance of fun then there is an issue.
This isn't to mention how toxic they can be to any other Survivor in the game that isn't part of their group.
I am much much much more scared of a team with 4 randoms but very efficient survivors than most SWF groups.
When I check their profiles and it's a 4-man I bring an insurance ebony mori in case they're too tryhard. Other than that, SWF is not a problem. The things 4 very efficient survivors can do in some maps is THE problem, just like some killers lacking options in certain scenarios.
(when I say some killers I mean the actual low tier killers. Anything Plague tier or above has plenty of options in most matches).
They're not gonna nerf SWF. They're not gonna blacklist comms. The ability to see who's in a group without checking profiles is important imo so you can take the appropriate precautions, but only if there's a timeout for excessive lobby dodging.
As killer, you have the gift of information before the game starts. Use it to your favor. Bring OP stuff if you think they're bringing OP stuff. Sometimes you misjudge and get cucked but I really don't think SWF is a problem. Let's be real, most of the times you lose it's because you misplayed or the map was bs or both. Not because people are smack talking each other on Discord.
thats mainly because its rare to go against a serious swf they often will just mess around. the best example of this is the depip squad who won like 100 games with no one dieing because they didn't care about anything except everyone surviving as fast as possible.
Ah, yet another non-answer to the impossible question.
I bet people don't care about survival rate or whether they get all 4 or not, they just dont wanna deal with frustration of SWF lobby.
Especially with broken Object of Obsession perk + voice comm. At least do something about this perk please!
So, theoretically, survivors all gain the ability to know if they are being chased/cleansing(with a totem counter)/repairing, effectively knowing what they're all doing at any given time, as well as whether the killer is occupied.
There's no possible universal buff that killers can get to compensate.
I don’t want SWFs nerfed. Most people purchase games to make friends/play with their friends. There should be perks to vsing SWF though... maybe like 25% more BP for each member in their group... that would be nice and fair.
you can’t buff killers cause randoms get dominated 90+% of the time in my experience. I very seldom lose to a group of randoms... (could be SWF When I lose, but I don’t like to assume.)
Did the op just say all killers play swf with themselves? Yep killers are so lonely. #sadlife
Bumping solo players' level of communication to that of a SWF team and balancing killers around that is exactly what the game needs. For once, I'm actually excited to see the where the game is headed balance wise!
twas a meme.