TerminalEntropy
TerminalEntropy
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- TerminalEntropy
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Nevertheless the issue, that Ruin "used to fix", still stands. Current pace of the game is way too fast, being closer to a NFS race rather than hunt&survive. Make it last longer!
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@brokedownpalace said:
The fact that the Doctor can't simply walk around the map and passively find survivors with his static field makes him 1000 times less annoying IMO.
That's one statement I don't get. Right now his ability to find survivors has become even more powerful. Sure, before all he had to do is walk around a bit slower but, excluding madness I, it took some time. Now he goes boom every now and then and everything is clear xD Don't get me wrong, I love his update, but I find it to be 100% buff. Nowadays Doc and Hag might be few Killers that can withstand gen speed pressure and do their thing, while stealth Killers, who need to take their sweet time, suffer.
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Pace of games needs a slow down instead of making things even faster. Meaning balance needs work very much but not like that.
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It's not a provocation but a legit question - have you played GF on higher ranks? Least high green, purple? Because GF is a noob cleaner, true, but adept survivors are quite good at destealthing him in my experience. Hell, there's a thread somewhere right now where a survivor put GF on a list of Killers he enjoys to go against, so... xD
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I feel you man, I'm also fan of Wraith, although I'd like to see next approach to his power rather than implementing a general mechanic of one-shots. First thing is that balancing one is certainly easier than giving new power to all of them, especially when not every one needs an extra. Second, I'd simply like to see something connected to his theme and design, in my opinion what Wraith needs is more mind-game potential rather than bigger blades on Azarov's. Just an example: there were voices calling for The Ghost as a permanent effect and that's a direction I would support, generally speaking - making his bell sound a tool for Wraith instead of just being a disadvantage.
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
The oni was perfect in the ptb, but now its just a mess
My suggesionts for a buff:
-Make his sprint turns better
-Improve his hitboxes, he has this huge knife but his lungue is like hags
-Make his power weapon control better when hitting survivors
-Let us hit survivors after sprinting without the need of that fatigue
Wait, what fatigue after sprinting? His running is surprisingly reliable when you steer him with WASD+Mouse and he can end sprint with an insta down that actually allows him to turn even faster. Where's the problem?
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If I remember correctly from one of newest dev streams, Piggy is supposed to get some tune up. About her crouching and ambush attack, I used to agree with @MommyDeRose about it being very underpowered and having all high tier addons oriented around RBTs gives you that feeling that using the low ones boosting crouch&ambush is not worth it. Nevertheless I tried them out recently and damn, they really change the stuff, take the yellow one and add one of the lowest for crouch speed, charge speed, or missed cool-down, sudddenly crouching becomes reliable enough to use in a chase, even for catching up sometimes.
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That's very well thought, you have my sword. I mean - censer :)
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True, true. I'm a dedicated Wraith main since I joined in..I'm not sure now, but if I remember correctly The Nurse was the most recent killer at that time. With everything that's been happening to our shadow realm walker I couldn't leave him because of his atmosphere, the design, it's perfect.
And I think there's no other Killer that is so dependent on so many variables to get out full strength, one example - map designs. While being a factor crucial for everyone, for Wraith it's "to be or not to be".
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7) Also don't actually do your job 'cause it makes you a tryhard. I believe I've even been flamed once about breaking too many pallets.. xD
I'm going to say this now 'cause I feel like it - you're not getting paid by BHVR, or anyone, to provide entertainment for some random people, you've paid BHVR to be given the fun so take it in any form you want it.
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There is a group of survivors that's going to always frown upon anything that might get them into a corner. I'm going to say what already has been just to throw in more weight - don't care about survivors and their fun, you make your own rules as the Killer.
NOED has always been fun or should I say, it's the only way to make the ending part of the game fun for the Killers without teleporting or snaring abilities. Use it to your hearts content when you feel like it! Also don't get it in your head about Killer "having to use it" because it's going to become the second others-people-opinion that influences your choice.
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I disagree on your statement that the endgame is in a right place because all it did was shift the power to the killers (before it was survivor side sort of since survivors could just sit on hatch before the endgame changes), I mostly figured the endgame should be equally balanced for both sides while still maintaining a competitive/fun aspect for the game. Unfortunately, the way I see it today is if the killer found the hatch first and closes it then it's almost a guaranteed win because then they could camp the gates.
Damn, I totally didn't plan on writing something this long, but it somehow happened. Although I think I nailed what was to be nailed, I hope that at least you @βLAKE will go through it :D
I can understand this perspective, especially when you go into the fog with solo attitude (which sadly current mechanic discourage greatly), but I can't share it. Thing is, it got rather set in stone of dbd culture that Killers performance is measured and judged by number of kills. When you are a sole survivor of trial you are the only who won while Killer with his 3 kills may feel triumphant as well, but the true goal is good, old "gonna catch them all". On the other hand if 4 survivors leaves while Killer has earned tons of points it won't count as a "draw". What I'm getting at is that with things being as they are, from Killer's perspective, nothing truly warrants providing a 50-50% chance on the occasion where 3 survivors got killed before powering up the gates. The odds should be in Killers favor while giving the last survivor a thrilling, rising blood pressure, chance at escaping, it's a horror game, not a race :) It got a bit obscured with all sprintbursts, adrenalines and loops, but that's still a fact. Plus the opposite situation would be - being last survivor when all others managed to escape which gives this last survivor a hatch and an already opened gate or two, I might have gone a bit too far here but it is really vital which side is winning at the time.
About the current state of matters, although finding the last survivor at the gate happens to me more often than him giving me the slip - the latter happens often enough to find balance quite ok, I feel that I have an advantage but can't be relaxed or I'll screw things up (unless I'm playing Trapper but it's privilege of his power to excel at 1v1 endgame). There is an option of mindgame, as a survivor you can actually decide to wait at the gate and let the Killer do all the searching, if you choose to do this there actually is a 50-50% chance for you, provided the gates are far enough = if the Killer choose wrong gate to check as the first you will run away. Moreover it's rather impossible to balance it any further with all, purely random variables that endgame consists of. Take a look, the distance of gates is one thing, second is whether there is a fast road to a clear view on the..handle? And third is hatch itself, it may spawn right next to one of the gates leaving 0 chances for the survivor or in the furthest corner giving him more time at the gate. Also take into consideration that nowadays endgame always gives last survivor the chance at escaping, even if any generator hasn't been finished. That's a fair change in Surv favor.
Now about you'r ideas. The first one - we are talking about the situation where one survivor is left in the game and gates are not powered up, so this mechanic of the key getting back to the chest seems to be unnecessary :D And about the variables that fixed key location introduces - they would ultimately get too hard for the Killer side. If survivor doesn't know where the hatch is that's where this should works quite fine, finding a closed one (meaning no sound clue) would be very difficult. Buf in scenario when he/she knows where it is the Killer is at a complete loss, 'cause it's a rare commodity to have the hatch close to the gate, and patrolling 2 gates sometimes is too easy, another time impossible without giving enough time to open one of them. Add third objective to care for and Killer is...well, caput. It would create a situation where Survivor would be able to assess the distance when the gates are shown and make a profitable decision, while Killer would always patrol the gates to prevent opening it. If a survivor would go for the key and knew where the hatch is - free escape. While not knowing the location would be almost sure death by the timer.
About the second, with skillchecks, I believe that something big (though I don't have any specific idea) would have to change in their mechanic. Simply putting difficult skillchecks would become muscle memory like the perks you mentioned, maybe with exception of Ruin.
You know, the more I think about it the more I believe that it's not exactly the endgame itself that requires changing but survivor's stealth options. Imo it's been long given up and forgotten in favor of chases, dynamic events and leaving repair speed as it is. If survivors had a reliable options at disappearing after being found, the endgame would be a bit less shifted toward Killer, just enough to be satisfactory for both sides I believe. Maybe the viable hotfix would be implementing few strong stealth perks that would come to life in case of being the last one standing. Right now the only such perk is the one that boots repair speed, if I remember correctly, was pretty useless, got totally so.
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Ok, Killer main here (Wraith to be precise, pretty obvious I guess) that surely is going to put his hands on GF.
Are you guys actually serious up there? xD Have you given those changes even a little bit of thought before spouting all this cr...things?
They somehow nerfed possibly most powerful addons, seems rational that in a process of tuning a new Killer something got too strong.
Pallet stuns now break the stealth. Seems rather consistent with other pallet influences, they make Killers drop survivors, stop chainsaws, get myyyy preciouuusss out of his marvelous cloak, but sure, the stealthy Killer with an insta-down power should definitely be an exception....just "because".
Marked survivors may no longer be stalked. If I understand this correctly GF won't be able to stalk survivors that already are exposed, my question is - why the hell was he able to do it before.
Detection AREA OF THE SCREEN has been increased - it means the angle, like in freakin' Shadowborn perk. If you didn't understand it then you definitely talk before you think.
And to top it all do take into account that those changes are accompanied by some general tweaks that may nerf looping a bit, provided they work and prove impactful enough. Disabling fast vaults when running glued to the wall seems to be quite interesting for our side of the fog. So play a bit and then cry...should there be any good reason.
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That's quite sharp idea, I like it :D
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I think endgame right now is in mostly right place (and yes, Killer main here). If survivor needs to rely on finding the hatch it means that 3 sacrifices's been made before final generator, so this is Killer winning and there's no real reason for the last survivor to have truly good chance at saving his ass. And right now this chance is quite high, he might already know where the hatch is or simply be lucky and find it before Killer does, and even if Killer is there first there is still a chance that Survivor will unlock the gate. Odds are reasonable.
That being said.
I find the idea itself quite interesting, but before I go any further I have to to say this: no extra seconds, no real reason + it would only boost last survivor chances at opening the gate instead of the hatch.
Now to all those who swiftly said "No" up there - look at all variables in this idea. Acquiring extra key would mostly be viable with Plunderer's or maybe only then, 'cause without it would be pure luck, which is fine. The key appears after the hatch is closed so finding the chest, opening it again and then moving to the hatch would actually be possible only if a survivor knew already where the hatch is. Finding this random chest and then finding closed hatch would be rather impossible with the clock ticking.
So what that would give us - finding and opening all chests would become more important for S team in order to be able to identify the happy chest later = slows early-mid game. Survivor would have to act fast, so scratchmarks would be rather mandatory. Meeting all the odds to perform this would be very hard - all chests opened + localizing the hatch + Plunderer's to see the right chest. Without even one of those conditions this mission would be really impossible. And making Plunderer's a more interesting perk is an advantage in itself given the state of current meta perks. So yeah, instead of bombing the idea on the spot, it would be sensible to think how it should work in details.
E.G. How about making it not a key but a special item, a lock-pick that would start a set of special, difficult skillchecks during opening of the hatch.
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I'd also like to know a certain answer.
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What they said. And why is tunneling so bad at all, I've heard about it "not letting a survivor play" - how? The tunneled one is constantly in a chase instead of just doing gens, so he/she plays a lot! :]
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Agreed to both ideas. The first one could and should be implemented, the second one too but I can bet devs will not do it, exactly not to give Killers opportunity to decline SWF games. It would hurt survivors, ya know.
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@AndreasLyUs said:
What do you think about it?
Making something a bit harder doesn't always mean making place to make it easier in some other way -.- Faster pickups and hooks are mandatory especially to the changes made for the survivors side, meaning better invulnerability while being unhooked and faster unhook cancels for the unhooking one. The changes have already been balanced!
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There is one more thing - how did you get the idea that every game has to be "sportsmanlike"? Sometimes I begin the game only to piss some ppl off, there's no ethic here! xD And while camping is a real bad for the game as a whole (and unless justified will get low score for the Killer, so it's already fixed as it should be), tunneling at the beginning of the game is the best way to shift the odds in Killer's favor. You get killed, go play next game, I've already seen lots of survivors staying untill the end just to throw some "tunneler" titles at me, well yeah, keep them coming, I just don't get why anyone would waste time having the possibility to go to next game.
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Did you lose your logic somewhere? How the hell is this change supposed to provide all this when the exposed status has always been there on the 3rd tier, the only actually important. Everything stays how it used to be, there have always been a danger of getting noed to the face.
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@ConclaveHighOverlord said:
and that the most garbage iv heard... looping or making the most out of one pallet ... doesnt deserve a camp from the killer ... you can mind game a loop ... might take a while to learn but you can non the less... the fact is killers make rubbish excuses that make them seem eligible to camp and tunnel everyone in that game... ohj he had a flaslight (survivor never used flashlight)... lets camp because there toxic... its excuse after excuse ... if you cant play the game then admit it, dont make an excuse for bs playThis is bullshit, no, in many cases (= every annoying case) loops cannot be mind game, there's too much space for survs. And yes, when you loop or "make the most of the pallet" you deserve the Killer to "make the most" to get you out of the game and even without it this is Killers damn objective. The game provides survivors with comfortable option of moving to the next game a few seconds after dying, so the fact that many people stay to watch and throw some salt at someone who totally doesn't care about them is hard to comprehend.
And as ending an underlining of something fundamental..
@MhhBurgers said:
I'm not here to ensure that you have a good time, this is survivor entitlement speaking. -
@Egonic said:
What would you prefer the survivors do instead? Let's say they follow through with your change and completely destroy the act of looping, and since pallets have to be used faster, you can now reach a state where survivors have no protection at all.
I can't draw any other conclusion than you wanting the game made easier, not more fun, not more challenging, but simply reach a state where all you do is walk after survivors that have no protection. I would definitely not want to see such changes, and I strongly believe all it would do is make the game worse for everyone who don't need instant gratification when they play poorly, which I find very backwards.That would be quite reasonable station BUT there is one problem - nobody knows how the game would look like if loops were never there. Surely though we would see totally different habits, while right now every tweak of enough influence to change the current ones is met by big opposition from survivors side. Maybe some styles of distractions would appear, or game were slower 'cause people would be leaving the gens after some time just to be sure, 'cause Killer wasn't appearing for some time meaning he can come soon. Or who knows what else.
Another thing is throwing your argumentation about gratification for low skill back at you, I know that survivors invented this phrase "looping skills" but b**ch please xD
That being said I acknowledge that options of vanishing from Killers sight are too limited which is something that should be taken into account while planning any changes.
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@Entità Oh but we're helping, we're opposing to an idea that alone is quite nice, but in reality would mess things up
Btw. about being unnecessarily bitchy I was talking to MhhBurgers but it seems you Entita have some issues to, check your eyesight, you see me frustrated here?
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@Lynzkar said:
You make a fair point, perhaps something like "-While Cloaking, Cloaked and Uncloaking, renders the Wraith and his actions compleatly silent.", Would be a nice buff to it, and make it worthy of the ultra rare add-on rarity.Yap, that would be quite nice. Although I think that to make it a real ultra rare addon there should be also a default, short Ghost-effect added to it, e.g. for the 1 sec of the sprint.
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I forgot about this.
...again with the same, dude, if you did read then you totally didn't understand. For the f. sake, my first sentence in the 2nd paragraf in previous post - this is not a topic about whether camping is good or not, and all you talk about is exactly this -.-
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Doctor's, definitely, he uses his power for the deed instead of his tool + daaamn it's intense.
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...yeah, guy wanted to bond a bit so let's talk about ourselves xD so cliche.
Good job @se05239 ! Which Killer got you there in the end?
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@Lynzkar said:
Does this mean that at really close range, they will not hear the woosh or the bell when you use the coxcombed clapper?They won't hear the bell at all, but they will hear wooshing whenever they are in range, and if I remember correctly it was 40m. And being very close after the woosh they get intense heartbeat. To be honest coxcombed clapper alone isn't too awesome, it has nice synergy with The Ghost (and that's the combination allowing jump-scares), but without Ghost it's weak for a top notch addon. All you get is no bell sound so if they spot you (and Wraith starts to shine like a damn christmas tree as soon as he starts uncloacking) you get nothing.
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@SadonicShadow said:
I play killer all the time m8 and i wish i was playing killer now but the queues are so bad. I rarely get toxic behavior like this and honestly it does not bother me but i am reporting these people out of principal because the worst thing we can do is develop an apathetic attitude towards behavior like this. It is unacceptable and should be punished when it arises. Our community is already toxic enough and we have an obligation to report this behavior so that people are deterred from doing it in the future.He's right, Bug_Reporter, you don't want to invest more time in clearing trash then it's your business but don't go around soft-mocking people who do.
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Very much agreed.
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I agree with Burgers, but jeez dude, be nice when there's no reason to be bitchy -.- It could be tested, would fail if it were, but I can understand Entità's sentiment.
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@Nos37 said:
This is why I think that Blindness should also hinder the Survovr's ability to differentiate between hex and dull totems.Quite the idea
Or make another type of Blindness making pallets invisible for the duration, that would be something! -
@Lynzkar said:
I thought the woosh sound was only auidble for the wraith to begin with?Oh no, that wooshing is for Survivors to give them 3 detection radii xD Woosh without Heartbeat - quite far, Woosh with Heartbeat - a bit closer. Bell ringing - really close.
And I agree about the footsteps totally. Actually I think he should be by default detectable by shimmer only, after this rework..
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@Entità
I did But imo it doesn't solve the problem, what I meant wasn't that totem locations are easy to find (which mostly is true) and can be learned but the sheer fact that best perks are gambles or takes time to activate. New totem locations would be nice, sure thing, but it's far from enough to make 6 perks >for both sides< a balanced solution and what's more, taking hex perks would become mandatory with Survivors having 6 each. Although I would be in for a test if one were possible. -
There will always be ppl who relieve stress after having their asses kicked by calling names. I mean c'mon, gen rushing although annoying is your goal in the game, just like someone said before if anyone is to blame - it's the devs for giving us "wait for the awsome future" treatment without any temporary solution. Well maybe with the event I'm a bit unfair here but on the other hand it's very "temporary"
Same with being stealthy, that's what Survvivors should be focused on, not getting caught, if you manage - bravo. And unlike looping good stealth really gives in game feeling of being outplayed.Real complaint one can have is this damn looping as it exploits stupid imperfection of the game structure and...well it doesn't stick to anything.
All in all guys already gave the right conclusion, screw puny flamers and rub their salt in their own wound by simple disregard or some laughter if you feel like it.
By the way, why do you think a disabling of chat hasn't become an option yet? ;] -
I'll throw in Wraith's Blind Warrior - Mud. 60 seconds of Blindness for the one that was hit means simply nothing.
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What he said. They should be but mostly are not. Best Killers perks are hexes, which are gambles with diminishing odds for Killer as ranks rise, or must meet certain conditions. Or both. Best Survivor perks are easy to use and are not subjected to conditions.
While I like the idea itself only after some issues become fixed should it be implemented.
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@Entità said:
Of course, that argument, if used, applies to the killer, too. Haven't you been good in hunting, chasing, catching and hooking people but one, gates are powered and you are losing your trial? Then you failed and don't deserve a perk rewarding your failure with a second chance, like NOED.For the f. sake, NOED can be countered before it even sets off and after it does - it can be stomped out. That's the first thing. Second - Killers failure is not announced by all gens been done. Think if you want to make a reasonable argument 'cause this one doesn't stick at all.
DS can't be countered, Enduring will shave off a couple of seconds of stun but it's the loosing of the survivor itself that's the major event here, stun is an addition in comparison. And the perk as it is wouldn't be so much o a problem if game were taking longer than it does right now. The other issue is it's reliability (tremendously difficult, rrright) and possibility of 4ppl wearing it.
The rework ideas are actually quite nice, though the idea of it stopping Killer and adding wiggle progress is equally good. Or make a counter-skillcheck for the Killer, why only Survivors are supposed to have boons based on a ting that can be trained to the point of no-mistake
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@JanTheMan said:
Just another add-on dependant killer...Which makes him cool, and btw. who the hell doesn't run addons.
Burnout right now is quite well tweaked. As for what MyNamePete said I can only agree with Wraith not being weak, but in the old days he used to be stronger (with right addons) albeit duller in terms of gameplay variety (cause he had like 3 addon pairs that worked well)
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Nice work on calculations! But the idea is seriously lacking, add to the things said before also the fact that one forced to play survivor would simply go kamikaze and there, he can play Killer again.
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If exit gates are opened and you got your first hook it just means you'r luck has run out.
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It's true that with 3rd person camera loosing Killer in a chase would be impossible while it wouldn't fix problems with looping for Killers.
Then again I agree that survivors could also have 1st person camera, with "look back" key. It's won't happen though, at least I don't believe it.But what is possible and would be fair is implementation of something to show the Killers where Survivors are looking with precision of Killer's red stain.
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Seems I didn't refresh site for a couple of minutes and didn't see your reply, I shall fix it right away.
As for what you said Jack yes, you're right but jeez, this is not a conversation about whether to camp or not! Actually that's also what I said to the previous one. Just read the damn introduction, event if it's a bit long. And if shortcut is absolutely necessary here I go - it's about injustice of a situation when 2 sides of the game have a play-style they don't like to face and only one of those play-styles gets treatment in lesser awards.
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@Whispers23 said:
Yes I read what you said and I don't have your problem because I never camp. Camping is for weak killers.What you said just now proves you didn't x)
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@Jack11803 said:
If it’s a problem he can say it’s a problem. That’s like shutting down any killer main who wants a DS nerf cause “it’ll be fixed soon”But the problem is with survivors not with the designers xD It's not that people have to play the way many of them play - it's that they choose to. Games can still be played normally only longer due to serum extraction and this fact alone is very decent.
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@Vecors said:
People like you are the reason the devs dont give a damn about what the community has to say. Survivors earn up to 28k bps in 5 min while running from nectar to nectar. Even if you play solo queue, you can easily make up to 35+k every game.Wait a sec, you do realize what I said was a load of sarcasm. ..?
And second thing, how does the bps thing refer to what you quoted? -
This just made my day! Survivors are dumping whole game to get to the flowers = Killers have it too easy xD Yeah, it's Killers fault that survivors pour their bullshit attitude on their teammates the first time they got a chance.
It's not that Killer has more spots to patrol trying to find you, or that you can move stealthy instead of running like madness III. Or why share objectives in the lobby, lots of times there will be sb with 1/3 or 2/3 till the full vial. Naaah, Killers have it easy, to get a full vial out of the game they need 3 offerings and actually have to play successfully instead of holding LMB for a while but that means obviously nothing.And about having it easy, can anyone confirm, when 2 survivors do a flower is the amount of serum divided by half for each? Because from what I've seen till now on surv side, it's the extraction speed that goes up while any loss of the acquired amount was hardly noticeable.
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You really miss teabagging so much, Killer fellows? :chuffed:
Well we can't do sit-ups but we can SPIIIIN like crazy, moving mouse across the desk which is what I do to the hooked teabaggers, the sound of the cries circling in the speakers is great, makes up for everything x) -
@ToolboxMotley said:
Yeah, I was more figuring just one absorbed hit, but offered up the invincibility idea since absorbing one hit is basically just like starting out healthy, but not as good. The only real benefits would be the self-revival and lack of blood pools, while the negatives are still only technically needing one hit to go down, and moaning like a porn star. But, even just one hit is better than what it is now, and makes a lot of sense with the self-revival, in my eyes.But that's not a self-Borrowed Time stack, that's invincibility stack. One time self-BT would be imo acceptable, it would go nicely with the ability to stand up on your own IF you managed to run from Killer. Invincibility goes too far, let's not forget that NM itself might be kinda low rewarding for constant injury but it unlocks the best booster perks there are, you're almost the walking toolbox and additionally might carry the toolbox.