Kyledbd
Kyledbd
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- Kyledbd
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@Keezo said:
You dont, the killer knew where the hatch was first, you lost your BHVR freebie, your 2nd one shouldn't be fair
What if you did 5 gens. I agree hatch is a free escape I don't complain about killers having the advantage on closing it. But this strategy I'm suggesting isn't something that makes escaping hard it seems to make it impossible which isn't fair. In other words the killer shouldn't have a freebie either cause this basically gives the killer his 4th kill free.
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@Pixel_BoomBot said:
Bring a key and escape through the hatch. :)
Bringing a key would solve that problem.. to bad I'm not going to always have a key incase this happens
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@Superyoshiegg said:
Hope you can find a key.
Not every situation needs a viable counter. The survivor is not meant to have the advantage in that kind of endgame situation. The fact that the gates get powered when the hatch is closed is already a big step up in the survivor's court.
I Agree the game needs to be hard but hard doesn't mean impossible. This situation may just be very hard at which point its fair and I'm wondering what the counter is but it doesn't seem like this is a hard situation but instead an impossible one and impossible isn't fair. My experience with this was also after we got all 5 gens so it wasn't free power.
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@El_Gingero said:
You could get to the hatch before he does, or take a key. Or if the exit gates are far enough away from each other, disable one trap and immediately run to the other gate and you’ll probably get it open before he gets to you.
If the killer knows the hatch location. It isn't a race it's killers choice. And you can't always bring a key into every single match for the few times this happens. Also that tactic won't work cause the other gate is trapped to that's the issue.
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I got you. Currently rank 4 but not a tryhard just having fun and have a group of friends who are the same way.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2046378#Comment_2046378
Thats not how you open the Exit Gates in EGC.
Wait for the TR, wait until it goes away, open until the E on "Exit Gates" just a frame before the first light goes on, hide, wait for TR, wait for it to go away finish opening the Gate and escape, starting the EGC just when is one left will change absolutely nothing, just people camping the Gates instead of hatch (which some people already do, especially if they know the Killer knows Hatch position).
If a player is so lame they play a hatch game they probably don't know thr gate trick. And keep in mind the killer often doesn't walk all the way across the map giving you time to open the rest of the gate. Most high rank games I play or if I'm the killer myself. All the killer has to do is walk back and forth a very short distance between the doors to monitor both for that first light. Granted if you get doors on opposite sides of the map and a big map the gap is bigger and the time to walk just half the map is to much for the killer unless they play spirit or nurse or someone who can get around faster. But how often do you get those gate spawns. 90% of games they are side by side. And if the killer runs whispers your done, traps and the survivor sets them off DONE.
yes maybe sometimes that useless survivor will still get his free escape but not very often and eventually they will adopt a new method.
Tbh I don't understand your issue... if you play killer this change is great. If you play survivor and contribute this wouldn't even affect you. The only people who would have a problem with this, the only players this effects are those who don't contribute and wait for hatch. So is that you?
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@Perfect_Dank said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5TSDB7HT49KZ/z7herxu.png
What's the most "no fun allowed" moment you ever witnessed/been a part of? Or most "no fun allowed" killers and/or survivor Perks? Or most "NFA" thing you've found in general?
As a killer main on of my top things is survivors not just effin leaving. Don't get me wrong, it's led to some top notch hilarity when having those rare times the survivor effs' up while taunting you and you down and reign (intention spelling) all over thier parade. But for real, if it's been "that" kinda of a game where you the survivor has already humiliated the ######### out of me at everyturn, you seriously don't need the satisfaction of having me see you t-bagging at the exit gate. You've won. Woppie you. Now unless you're legit fixing for extra points via chests/totems/Sabo hooks. Please just take your win. I need to start loading the next game so I can attempt to make for the shame from thus game. Oh no? You'll be waiting until the very last moments? Okay... Ill be staring at a corner where your taunting can't hurt me anymore. 🥲
As a survivor main its gotta be the meta builds you see with late night games. I imagine late night killers as these basement dwelling, big gulp sipping, hot cheetos fingers mouse and keyboard sweats. They never accept mercy, they never offer hatch instead they actually make sure they find hatch location before ever hooking a 3rd survivor just to make sure they can go slam it closed EVERY SINGLE TIME cause anything less then 4k for them means a smashed keyboard. And the meta builds. You can pretty much gaurentee atleast 3 of these perks: barbecue and chili, ruin, pop, infectious fright or undying will be in their perk build. These killers have no interest in playing the killer they like or using the perks they like or playing a game for fun. To them it's all about control and abuse.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2046261#Comment_2046261
Then theyll camp the Exit Gates instead of the hatch, open them and escape anyway.
That usually results in a failed escape since the time it takes the killer to reach exit gate is way faster then the time to open. With barbecue and chili they already see you and know exactly what gate to go to and even if they choose the wrong gate they really only have to walk halfway look for a light and if there's no light walk half way to the other gate and check for a light there.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I like the idea of earning it but maybe it shouldn't just be down to gen progression. My thinking for this is that one survivor who gets found early and manages to distract the killer for quite a while, or the one who focuses on heals and saves.
Perhaps it could be either icon or bp based to determine who can get through the hatch?
Well my original idea was to use the in game score. You get points for everything you do so there should be a minimum score to unlock Hatch and you can reach that score many different ways.
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@HectorBrando said:
What they already said, then you have to find someone inmersed who will probably try to DC you out of the game, I had to find 2 guys who decided to go full inmersion once and it took me 17 minutes, I dont want to repeat that just because some people crave 4Ks more than mosquitos crave blood.
Hatch is fine, if someone didnt get their 4K because Hatch is not the end of the world it may reward bad Survivors but it also rewards good players who happened to be paired with potatos, it may punish good Killers but it may punish bad Killers who were lucky they got 3 potatos.
Id rather have 3Ks half the time than having to deal with inmersive trolls.
The endless endgame hunt wouldn't apply here tho. The way this idea would work is simple. The moment the 3rd hooked survivor dies. If the final survivor didn't unlock Hatch through in game achievements the game would act as if the killer had closed Hatch and the timer would begin. So endgame would still end quickly. Basically nothing changes from the current shape of the game other then the hatch pretty much AUTO CLOSING on survivors who didn't deserve it.
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@Seanzu said:
The thing is, it's almost only killers that are trying to define "earning" the hatch, the majority of survivors don't care about the hiding survivor getting the hatch, it's only points after all, and you there is much more to do in the game than just progressing gens like healing, saves, totems, items for the team, sabo, etc.
I actually main survivor. I came up with the idea because as someone who usually only has one or two friends on but rarely a 4th we often play with 1 or two randoms who would go into games with the intention of playing a hatch game from the start. Using left behind and offerings like annotated blueprint. They knew they would get hatch at the end. So they purposely let their team die on hooks and never contribute to the team game. This idea was to end that play style forcing every survivor who wanted to escape to have to contribute. And in my original idea I suggested a point system. Currently the game has a point system for everything (saves, totems, looping the killer ext.) There should be a minimum score requirements (achieved from anything not just gens) that unlocks hatch for endgame. Sure some players would still just do the minimum then go back to hiding but it would be a little better then it is now.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
The problem here is if there is no hatch for the last survivor, and no EGC, then the killer is still faced with a stealth survivor they need to spend hours finding. And if the killer is allowed to start EGC by opening a gate, then the killer is still faced with the same problems the hatch already presents.
Also, no hatch under these conditions punish solo’s that WANT to work on gens, but the other 3 survivors are total morons, and that solo survivor is in constant damage control doing saves, heals, or trying to find Ruin because nothing is getting done because of how frequently that solo needs to help others, or is simply getting chased off of gens all the time (surveillance or tinkerer).
I’ve been in many games where despite my BEST efforts it has been IMPOSSIBLE getting any gens done at all. Why should a player faced with those circumstances punished for the actions of 4 other players (killer, 3 survivors), actions that are completely out of the solo players control?
No what would happen if the survivor didn't unlock hatch through in game achievements then the game would act as if the killer had closed hatch and the moment the 3rd survivor dies the countdown would begin. Nothing really changes about the current shape of the game..only update would be to deny survivors who don't contribute the hatch in endgame
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@thefallenloser said:
What if you get chased or are unhooking/healing teammates all game? Hatch is really fine as it is and opening up a discussion as to what counts as contributing is a complicated question.
My idea was that the game would use your already implemented point system. Everything such as blinding the killer, totems cleansing, hook saves and looping the killer gives you points so there would be a minimum score you need to reach to unlock hatch for endgame. This would be fair to all Contributing survivors and only punish the corner campers who hide the entire game waiting for left behind to kick in.
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@Yords said:
So @Kyledbd had an interesting idea for a small change to the hatch. That idea was basically to only allow players to get hatch if they earned it by not hiding around doing nothing all game.
Original thread - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043735#Comment_2043735
Allowing any survivor to get the hatch to open (if everyone dies) by progressing the game a little bit
I have come up with my own idea of doing this. I thought about it for a little while and I think it is a good idea that could be implemented that would not change too much. It would solve the problem of players being immersed just to get the hatch because they are too scared to do anything.
The idea is to only allow hatch to open for the last survivor IF they have done a minimum requirement of progressing the game. The minimum of what they need to do can be up for a little debate. I say that players need to work on about half a gen for it to open. There should be some sort of ping sound for this that can be heard by each survivor individually that lets them know that if hatch spawns, they can escape through it.
If the survivor didn't do anything, then the hatch will simply not spawn if they are the last survivor and if it does and the survivor who did nothing all game can't use a key on it because the entity will sink the hatch into the ground and disappear. (a small animation could work with this).
It would be a very gentle way of encouraging players who stealth around the map way too much to progress the match without being too lenient or too much. Not all players who stealth around the map all game are trolls with keys, they are mostly just noobs who are still learning, so there is no need to be harsh with this idea.
Let me know what you think, or come up with your own ideas.
The QoL change would be to let everyone know when hatch has spawned on the map just like in DBD mobile
Glad to see this is still a topic of discussion, thanks for the credit. Hopefully something is changed eventually.
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@Lexilogo said:
I'm not against implementing a universal mechanic to punish deadweight teammates, along the lines of AFK crows. A system that doesn't get false positives very often but can still catch out extreme circumstances.
However, I don't think blocking the Hatch is the right way to go about this, for two reasons:
- Sole Survivors (not to be confused with the perk, I mean people who go into the game with the purpose of never touching gens and just waiting for the team to die while immersed) don't JUST rely on the hatch. They have Exit Gate opening after the Hatch has closed as a backup.
- If the Hatch is blocked like this, it'd result in softlock/game held hostage scenarios where the Survivor is just hiding and the Killer either looks aimlessly or triggers the EDC.
I would prefer something like a debuff that increases in potency as hook states/generators advance, and decreases massively if you get hook rescues/repair gens/break hex totems, decreases slowly while you're in chase with the Killer/healing others/looting chests, and pauses while you're in the Killer's TR. If the debuff increases to seriously large amounts (I would say going ~2 and a half generators' worth of progress without doing any of these decreasing actions) then the game starts feeding the Killer free information on your position like the AFK crows do.
Something like that, I think, could force these Survivors to at least pretend like they care about objectives.
Exit gates are also an option but as last man standing very difficult to open before the killer catches you since they really just need to spot the 1st or 2nd light from a distance to know which door you are working on. Also I should have mentioned that in situations where only 1 survivor remains but the hatch doesn't open due to lack of progress by the survivor the end game timer would immediately begin so as to not end up in limbo as you said.
I also thought of alternative solutions such as auras being revealed on Survivors who don't reach a specific points tier by mid game resulting in them dying as a punishment but this would also be a system that gets abused as killers would learn to recognize the revealed survivor as no threat and an easy end game kill so they would ultimately ignore them and gain more confidence.
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@C3Tooth said:
Tutorial to @Kyledbd
Study Gates' position
Wait for Killer to close hatch to trigger EGC. Note where 2 Gates spawn. Depend on its' position, one gate is a better option than the other. Learn to read their position.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5BCUOG0GKWJ3/image.png
^ Both these gates have equal chance. You can pick whichever.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NT9RT9B8B66U/image.png
^ The right gate is a better option. Because when you hear TR coming, you need to hide, and at the right gate, you can hide just by walk into the corner next to the switch.
- Sometimes Gates spawn are too close, just stand at a hook and ask them to kill you.
OPEN THE GATE
The Light works like this:
Below 25%: No light
25%: 1 light
50%: 2 lights
75%: 3 light
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6B59C300RGVH/image.png
The open Gate bar has text "OPEN-ESCAPE" above it, note when the first Light popup (25%)
Depends on UI scale, mine is at the letter A. When the bar reach to OPEN-ESC (24%), I will stop, hide at the corner and wait for TR come and go again, then I continue to open the Gates. This trick gives you 4sec less being in danger (18m distance).
BOLD SURVIVOR
You can open a Gate until it pop up 1 Light, then go to another Gate and do the same trick as OPEN THE GATE. Killer is likely to search the Light up Gate much longer
But make sure Light up Gate has worst position than the other, or you doomed yourself.
EASY WAY
Bring a Key.
Amazing response. Thanks a ton
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@CountVampyr said:
Assume that the killer will reach the gate just before you finish opening it. So, open it just enough for the light to appear, then stealthily go to the other exit.
Never tried it but maybe you’ll get lucky. At that point I don’t really care enough to try. I just want the game to end.
Thank you for actually posting a suggestion on a tactic to counter this camping method I described. Everyone else is just a bunch of killer mains bashing on any idea that lowers a killers advantage. When asked for a solution their only solution is GET GOOD. Toxic!
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2029054#Comment_2029054
Why don't you try the other gate? Pretty easy.
Survivors who stick to a single gate like glue when they are the last left always make me chuckle. It's like they want to lose.
You keep claiming the last Survivor doesn't have a chance to escape, but that's patently untrue. As I've said before. I've done it. You can watch Ohmwrecker do it too, or many other streamers. Just because it's something you can't do yourself doesn't mean it's not possible.
Still, not an exploit. If you are only going to work on a single gate, you are asking the killer to meet you there. All the whining in the world won't change that. Learn to use the gates effectively or don't, but the lights aren't being removed to compensate for your inability to adjust your playstyle to the circumstances.
Your not going to try to work on two gates at the same time until after the killer blocks you from getting one of them. But again as I explained the killer isn't camping from the start on one door but watching the lights. Allowing some time to be wasted as you work on one door. Yes you can leave then and go to the other gate but by now to much time is wasted and you die before the door is opened. And again I say exploit because it's a simple system to abuse the timer and the lights to deny escape.
Your not providing a valid solution to the exact problem I'm describing. It sounds to me like your a killer main and is automatically against anything that weakens a killers chances and will ignore game balancing logic and replace any argument with statements like GET BETTER or ADAPT. even tho you would fail in the exact same situation. Either that or your failing to understand the situation I'm describing. So I'm done arguing with you about it
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2029022#Comment_2029022
It's possible now. I've seen it done, I've done it myself. It isn't easy, but then, it shouldn't be. So you've already got your wish. Rejoice!
Seriously, looking at lights isn't an "exploit" and the sooner you quit claiming it is, the sooner we can take you seriously. It may feel impossible at lower ranks, but escape via the gate as the last one standing is very possible as long as you do it right. It takes strategy, patience and the ability to know when you have to rush. Just like football
@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2029022#Comment_2029022
It's possible now. I've seen it done, I've done it myself. It isn't easy, but then, it shouldn't be. So you've already got your wish. Rejoice!
Seriously, looking at lights isn't an "exploit" and the sooner you quit claiming it is, the sooner we can take you seriously. It may feel impossible at lower ranks, but escape via the gate as the last one standing is very possible as long as you do it right. It takes strategy, patience and the ability to know when you have to rush. Just like football
I'm not a low rank I've escaped solo plenty of times to but in those situations the killer wasn't doing what I described. Your suggestion doesn't actually counter my problem. It doesn't prevent the killer from camping the middle point of both gates watching for the light. It doesn't prevent the killer from seeing the light then camping that door and it doesn't stop the timer giving you more time to rush the next door after carefully sneaking away without the killer seeing you leave that gate. And if it's a killer setting traps at both games and getting notified when a traps is tampered with then you definitely have no chance. I dont care what your rank is or how good you think you are if a killer does this in endgame in a 1v1 the last kill becomes a free kill.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2028994#Comment_2028994
"Exploit"
You keep on using that word. I am not so sure it means what you think it means
Exploiting Game design to gaurentee last survivor doesn't escape by monitoring the lights, camping the gate the survivor works on and letting the time run out. What confused you about the word exploit?
I'm getting alot of killer mains being against my suggestion but not a single person is sharing a tactic to counter a killer who plays like this. So everyone commenting is in favor of the concept of the last survivor not even having a chance to escape which to me sounds like killer mains wanting as little challenge as possible and having a completely biased opinion...
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@AsherFrost said:
Why do you believe you deserve an easier escape because your team died? Why should the system be changed just because the killer is about to win fully? In football, you dont see the losing team getting to start their offense on the 20 yard line in the 4th quarter just because they are losing. The rules of the game stay the same for the duration, in that way it is fair, because it is a situation everyone has implicitly agreed to.
I'm not saying easier, I'm saying possible. I would suggest double the gate progression time to open but remove the lights. The exploit of the killer monitoring lights after closing hatch in a 1v1 doesn't make the situation hard but impossible. In football if one team is winning it wouldn't be fair or fun if during the final quarter the winning team is the only team allowed to score right? There is still a chance for a comeback in football but in the situation I described there isn't.
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@Seraphor said:
Maybe if all 5 gens were completed.
If the hatch only spawned because everyone else died and thus the gates only powered because the killer closed the hatch... do you really deserve to open them?
I agree if you did nothing or very little you never deserved to escape anyways. But even if you do all 5 gens as long as the killer knows the hatch location and kills 3 survivors you still end up stuck in this situation where it no longer is a difficult challenge to escape but instead impossible as long as thr killer abuses this exploit. It shouldn't be impossible, very hard yes but not impossible. This mindset suggest that if your in 1v1 and the hatch is closed you should just offer the killer yourself as a 4th kill and the killer should not have any challenge getting his 4th kill.
I've gotten alot of responses of people being against my suggestion but no solution to counter the problem. It sounds more like killer mains not wanting anyone to escape because nobody has a balancing solution :/
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@Pulsar said:
They should not remove the lights. It should be nigh impossible to escape.
You have already failed to do all the gens AND have failed to find hatch, ergo, this is your third chance and subsequently, your least likely to succeed.
Hold the door for about 5 seconds, this will take the progress bar up to when the light will turn on if you touch it again. It saves you some time and the lights don't turn on, meaning you have free progress on the door.
I'm referring to games where you are playing solo with random. You might get all 5 gens but if 3 of your team mates die by then and if the killer knows the hatch location then you are stuck in this situation not because you failed but because the random the game put you with did and because the killer knowing the hatch location always = no hatch escape.
If you blow it with friends that fair but when you play good but still get trapped in the 1v1 it sucks. I agree the endgame 1v1 should be very hard but not impossible. The lights allows killers to exploit game design to make it impossible instead of just really hard. To edit my suggestion I would say double the progression time to open the gate but remove lights (only if 1 survivor remains)
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@EvanRaven said:
endgame collapse is supposed to favour killers. it's usually the norm for the killer to win.
lights should stay, how are other survivors supposed to know if the gate they are running to is 99'd if they are in a chase for example.
in the rare occasion you are in collapse, try opening the gate and leaving it just before the first light pops up and hide again, so it looks like there is no progress.
Edit to my suggestion would be that the lights are removed and the progression time to open is doubled. But only if 1 survivor remains. My problem with the lights doesn't apply when 2 or more survivors are left because you can work on 2 doors at the same time. It's only a problem in 1v1 situations when the killer can abuse the lights to not just make escape difficult but impossible.
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@Keezo said:
The sheer existence of the hatch makes a 1v1 inherently in the surv's favour since they get the chance to escape without playing the game.
So the gates, the surv's 3rd chance, should hardly be 'fair'.
I'm not arguing that the endgame should be near impossible my problem is that when a killer exploits the 4 second loop between distances where they can see both lights its no longer difficult its impossible. I agree in thr challenge but the challenge should never be replaced with impossible. I would suggest they double the time to open the exit gate but remove the light. This gives the killer alot of time to catch the survivor cause all they need to do is identify which door the survivor is working on which isn't very hard and they will still win. Meaning the only way the survivor can escape is with flawless performance at the exit gate timing when to let go and hide and when it's safe to continue.
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@Phasmamain said:
I mean it’s meant to be pretty unlikely to escape
Also bad gate spawns can cause the killer to lose outright
I agree but those gate spawns are rare. Most games I play the gates are side by side.
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@Crowman said:
If you are in a 1v1 situation, you are suppose to be at a major disadvantage.
I agree a disadvantage would make sense. Any chance of escape being completely denied by poor game design and exploits is another. They could double progression time on exit gates to balance it out but the lights don't just make it hard it makes it impossible if the killer plays this way.
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@Kirkylad said:
Yes let's bring back the hatch stand off sounds like a great idea!!
But seriously this ideas just bad and that's coming from someone that plays mostly survivor. If you and the team lost you shouldn't be guaranteed a free escape with the hatch.
it wouldn't be a stand off since we still have the timer that I think should start the moment the 3rd player dies. This way hatch camping in a stand off would still result in the survivor dying forcing the survivor to try for a door instead of waiting for the killer to swing. While the hatch remaining open would prevent the killer from double monitoring gate lights for the camp.
I'm specifically referring to survivor games with randoms. You can play smart, loop the killer, get saves to help your team, get 4 gens by yourself but if your 3 team mates aren't good and die bringing the game to a 1v1 you basically get screwed. Sometimes you can get lucky and the killer didn't find hatch and you get the free escape but usually the killer knows where it is and if the killer know the hatch location it becomes his choice if you can have it or not. Because anytime a killer knows the location of the hatch and doesn't want you to escape he has the capability to stop you 100% of the time due to the fact that the hatch doesn't open right away giving the killer time to get there and he can always close the hatch faster then you can exit through it. So if the killer can close the hatch you might as well not even have a hatch in the game.
Either way this brings us to my problem with the exit gates. A smart killer won't even run all the way to one door or the other to check for the survivor. There is actually a very short distance a killer can run to between where they can see the gate lights on both doors. All a killer has to do after closing the hatch is monitor those lights and once you get a gate to 25% they know which door your on and they camp it.
If I play with friends and we get to a 1v1 a point that will almost certainly result in loosing I accept it we had our chance we just messed up. But for people playing solo and never having a chance at escape with the random team mates they should have a chance to win solo at the end but my issue as I described shows that a smart killer aka a high ranked killer can easily take away any chance you have no matter how good you are by just denying both the hatch and gate options
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@Kevrill said:
On ps4 looking for peeps to play add me Kevrill69
im on ps4. Usually play as killer but prefer survivor just have no friends :( I sent you a request