fblurbg — Comments · Dead by Daylight forum archive

@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768697#Comment_2768697
You got called out hard by Peanits, where is your response. If you don't put one out I will call you out whenever you post anything in this forum.

That's the saddest thing I've heard all week. "You got called out by a dev whose trustworthiness is paper-thin, so I'm going to hound you wherever you go." News flash, trying to get attention from me won't make up for the attention you didn't receive from your parents growing up.

Basically, Peanits said that their desired average is a 50% kill rate, meaning that their desired average (meaning the majority of and ideally all) matches are a 2k2e. There's no other way you can spin that in a way that isn't "We want every other match to alternate between a 4k and 4e" or "We want matches to still have wild amounts of variance between the results to the point where they are individually meaningless but hey, they collectively average out to this random number we abstractly decided was the pinnacle of balance."

Peanits more or less said "Find me where we said wanted 2k2e matches on average. What we actually want is 2k2e matches on average."

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 25, 2022

@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2769000#Comment_2769000
Omg did I ever ######### say that? Did I say Spirit mega hard to play? Please stop twisting things about me.

It's all you ever post about, is how Spirit is fair and balanced and fun and mega skillful and everyone who dislikes her is a big meanie doodoo head Survivor main who has no idea what they're talking about.

in I still don’t understand how the must universally fun killer is so rare Comment by fblurbg January 25, 2022

@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768982#Comment_2768982
That’s a huge reach bud

Anything that dares to say Spirit isn't the literal most big-brained giga high skill curve super ultra quantum 4D chess Killer that requires the best gamer socks on the market is a huge reach to you, huh?

Spirit main moment.

in I still don’t understand how the must universally fun killer is so rare Comment by fblurbg January 25, 2022

@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768976#Comment_2768976
Hillbilly isn’t that fun to play anymore. He got gutted :(

I mean, I guess Spirit is fun if you want to turn your brain off and put zero thought into your gameplay. At that point though I'd just pick Nemesis or Plague.

in I still don’t understand how the must universally fun killer is so rare Comment by fblurbg January 25, 2022

That's a weird way to spell "Hillbilly".

in I still don’t understand how the must universally fun killer is so rare Comment by fblurbg January 25, 2022

@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768564#Comment_2768564
I know they've said a balanced match in their view is one where there are 2-escapes and 2-deaths... that's obviously a result of the maths I've already explained. Like seriously, what else do you want them to say: "A balanced match is 4 deaths... or 4 escapes!"
But anyway... please do provide a link/evidence to support what you're saying, since you're so confident of it. Let's have a look at what they said in context, rather than your opinion of what they said. Then we'll see whose argument fails.

Have you never listened to them talk about MMR and their balancing in-depth beyond this one QnA? Wanting 2 kills and 2 escapes every match is their paradigm. It's what the community has been getting at them for for a long time now, because their logic and philosophy are flawed.

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768471#Comment_2768471
OK, let me address this part:
"And the proof is in the pudding. We can see that their measurements used for calculating a 50% win rate game in the MMR system are bad because that isn't happening. That's why people are still complaining, because the system isn't doing what it's designed to do. Matches still have wildly differing results across all the brackets, and when they are consistent, they're not consistent in the way BHVR wants, usually resulting in strings of 3-4 kills or strings of 3-4 escapes, instead of the "ideal" 50% kill/escape ratio."
This is an example of confusing the theory with reality (which in fairness is an easy mistake to make), so let me be clear.
The system is NOT trying to create matches where 2 survivors escape, and 2 survivors die! It can't, because of the asymmetric nature of the game, and it's something the devs (implicitely) acknowledged by ascribing different values to survivors based on the order in which they die. I'm sure we all agree that once two survivors are dead, the other two are going to find it almost impossible to escape... to the point where the devs won't count the hatch as a "win" even though it's an escape.
What the system is trying to do is CREATE A MATCH WHERE EACH SURVIVOR HAS 50/50 CHANCE OF ESCAPING, i.e. given the level of all players involved at the outset, they have an equal chance of escaping or dying. That - in theory - should be a balanced match.
Mathematics dictate that with 4 survivors, the standard outcome would be 2-escapes and 2-deaths.
But that's just the theory. In practice we know it doesn't work like that, and the system isn't trying to do that.
Everyone - devs included - acknowledge that once a single survivor goes down, the odds of the others escaping decreases also, but that's outside of what the MMR was trying to predict and cater for. To do that level of prediction is stupidly hard, and unrewarding because there's no way to prove it works or not. You can get the same players to repeat the same game multiple times and have wildly differing outcomes every single time just because of a small thing that happened. I've had games where I've got from a 0k to a 4k, or vice-versa just because of some small thing.

And this is where your argument fails. You claim over and over that the system isn't trying to create a 50% kill/escape rate for each match... but it is. The devs have explicitly stated, over and over again, on a multitude of occasions, that this is the end goal. That is what they want. That is their ideal balance. It's not a 50% chance of escaping per Survivor, it's a match where 50% of Survivors escape and 50% are killed.

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768405#Comment_2768405
As in any other MMR system (assuming that the number is actually used, which tbf it currently isn't, the matchmaking compromises on it too quickly as the devs have admitted to), the person who hides all game and waits for the team to die so they can open the exit gates (as hatch doesn't count for MMR) will climb up to the point where that no longer works. That's how MMR systems should work, if there's a cheap tactic it should let you climb so you get to the point where it stops working.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768407#Comment_2768407
I have no reason to disbelieve the devs when they say that it does. It makes sense to me- if you're the kind of person who excels at looping and runs the killer for five gens sometimes, that means you're going to escape more often than you're not, or you're going to slide down to the point where you will start escaping. That's how it should work, that's what a hypothetical perfect matchmaking system would look like.
That, or you're hiding to escape every game, which I addressed above.
As for skill-based matchmaking being a bad idea, that's why I generally agree with the assertion that they shouldn't have ever used that term, that was a massive mistake. It's not really a skill based system, it's a system designed to produce matches where the default assumption a 50% chance for you specifically to achieve your win condition- and from what I'm hearing, that part works, it's the sorting and matching half that compromises too quickly.
(All of which is in this post, btw.)

"if you're the kind of person who excels at looping and runs the killer for five gens sometimes, that means you're going to escape more often than you're not, or you're going to slide down to the point where you will start escaping."

And the proof is in the pudding. We can see that their measurements used for calculating a 50% win rate game in the MMR system are bad because that isn't happening. That's why people are still complaining, because the system isn't doing what it's designed to do. Matches still have wildly differing results across all the brackets, and when they are consistent, they're not consistent in the way BHVR wants, usually resulting in strings of 3-4 kills or strings of 3-4 escapes, instead of the "ideal" 50% kill/escape ratio.

I can attest to this myself: When I play Killer, I should be averaging 2 kills across my games. I'm not, and I haven't been since the release of MMR. I've been averaging 3 kills most of my matches—and at least 80% of those 3k's are 4k's where I purposefully let the last Survivor escape. I don't run even the slightest bit of sweat in my builds, I play a variety of Killers, and I play as fair as I can—and yet I'm still vastly overperforming in 9 out of 10 games according to the ideal MMR system. Does that mean I'm good at the game or some kind of comp player? Not in the slightest; I'm actually quite mediocre and deliberately choose to play suboptimally for the sake of fun. It means that MMR does a terrible, terrible job of matching me with players of even remotely similar gumption for a 50% win rate. None of my matches feel fair when they're 90% me stomping and the other 10% me getting stomped.

Sure, some players report having more "fair" matches (though if it's BHVR's definition of "fair" that they're using, then I use that term very loosely), but the vast majority of players are not experiencing this, hence the ceaseless complaining and contant clowning on the devs. More often than not, the system fails to do its job and create the ideal matchup for anyone in a given lobby.

"It's not really a skill based system, it's a system designed to produce matches where the default assumption a 50% chance for you specifically to achieve your win condition"

That's the thing. BHVR is asserting that their matchmaking system is a skill-based system. That was what the entire snippet from the QnA was about, is Patrick arguing that the things the system measures are accurate proxies of skill. Their ideal is a skill-based system that results in a rough 50% win rate for the playerbase—and neither of those ideals have been realized. It is not a skill-based system, and it doesn't average a 50% win rate for most players.

Of course, none of this is getting into the debate of whether or not BHVR's ideal is even a good one—which I don't think it is. I think even if their system functioned on any level, what it accomplished would not be a good thing.

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768371#Comment_2768371
Yes it does, that'd be the part where it explains that the system matches you over large batches of games- if you're cocky enough to go for the kinds of plays that can get you killed first after a five-gen chase, you're not going to fail that every time, and you're going to escape more often than you don't.
That'd be the matchmaking half, not the MMR half itself, which is the focal point of this post. I don't know if OP would acknowledge the matchmaking portion being broken, but they don't have to- the devs did, in the QnA stream.

Nothing about what they said shows that the MMR system's standards is actually a good indicator of skill—which it isn't. In a game like DBD where there is more RNG-based variance than there is player input-based variance, not only is a skill-based matchmaking system a bad idea in the first place, but when you throw out all that variance and the infinitely huge list of factors that came into the situation and instead boil it down to a small number, it's not going to be accurate. And it isn't. MMR does not do a good job of indicating your skill or if you are even remotely close to as good or as bad as the other players in your lobby. Especially when you put a hard cap on your MMR number that can be reached with laughable ease, meaning there are probably more players at the highest MMR bracket than any other bracket in the game. And even if it WERE a good skill indicator, it doesn't matter because the system is broken and doesn't match you with players of similar MMR ratings anyways.

So what we have is a skill-based matchmaking system that does a terrible job of rating your skill and also does a terrible job of matching you with people of similar ratings. It is, objectively, a trash, broken system and should be revised from the ground up.

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

I still don't see how this post succeeds in addressing the two biggest issues with the SBMM system, which are:

It doesn't matchmake based off of an accurate measurement of skill.
It doesn't match you with players of a similar rating.

in How the MMR works, and why what Patrick said makes absolute sense (from a dev POV) Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

So, I can either choose to play how I enjoy the game, be it sweaty or casual or with a niche or an oppressive build and get told to kms in the post-game chat by Survivors who feed me free wins with their terrible plays, or I can choose to actively gimp myself and go out of my way to play nice... and get told to kms in the post-game chat by Survivors who feed me free wins with their terrible plays.

I think I know with what I'm going with.

in Killer Mains, I'm Calling You Out! A *Lunar Event* Challenge. Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

No.

in Do you agree with Otz Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768213#Comment_2768213
Actually it is fine with Pain Resonance. Problem is DMS is broken on Artist and this already confirmed by some forum users. She can camp hook and she can spam crows to generators. This was issue about DMS.

Then that's not a problem with DMS; that's a problem with Artist being able to do damage at an infitite range through walls.

in Boil Over & Dead Man's Switch Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

I think Boil Over will probably get its bonus drop effect removed since there are certain ways the hooks can spawn on maps with second-story buildings that can make a Boil Over user impossible to hook. If DMS gets nerfed, it will likely be because of its synergy with Pain Resonance, since on its own it's still quite mediocre.

in Boil Over & Dead Man's Switch Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

Well one looks like a turtle, and the other is Chris Redfield.

in In your opinion who looks better, Chris or Claire? Comment by fblurbg January 24, 2022

I would pick Plague in the pre-game Killer screen.

in How would you buff Coulrophobia? Comment by fblurbg January 23, 2022

Legion.

It's concerning how many people, including Legion mains who've played him since he came out, will assert the idea that you should never Frenzy injure Survivors. Legion isn't about getting rapid injures; he's about making people mend—he is a hit-and-run Killer and should be treated as such.

If an injured Survivor is good at looping you in a chase, Frenzy them and run off. If an injured Survivor is trying to pull you away from a gen, Frenzy them and run off. If an injured Survivor is trying to get you away from where you want be in genereal, Frenzy them and run off. If an injured Survivor is being healed by a healthy Survivor, Frenzy them and run off.

When it comes to using your power on people who are already injured, people seem to just... forget that Deep Wound and Killer Instinct exist. Sometimes it's better to use an injured Survivor as a vessel for finding others instead of just going for a down. There are incalculably many scenarios where an injured Survivor can waste too much of your time, but if you make them mend and go find someone else, you'll accomplish the reverse of you wasting their time.

I know this seems like a simple tip, but for as irrefutably simple a Killer as Legion is, people REALLY have no idea how to play him properly and it's both hilarious and depressing. They only think about the 1v1 when they should be thinking about the 4v1 since that's kind of what Legion was designed to be, is a Killer who trades a weak 1v1 for a good 4v1.

in Killers who've mastered their mains Comment by fblurbg January 23, 2022

I don't think anyone asked for MMR.

in Developers did a great job with the emblem system. Why did you ask for MMR? Comment by fblurbg January 23, 2022

@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765254#Comment_2765254
I can think of a time that Twins as a camping killer was addressed: Twins are likely the reason (emphasis on THE REASON) Borrowed Time was buffed to no longer include hearing the killers terror radius. Camping isn't unique to Twins. Having one of the strongest brown add ons in the game is unique to Twins. And they barely nerfed it.
But tell me straight up that you do not want Twins 0.05 seconds back for Toy Sword. If you somehow don't, your whole post falls apart.
I think they do have the root of it and this thread is like we're supposed to pretend that Twins is a bad killer and undeserving of these minor nerfs.

"Twins are likely the reason (emphasis on THE REASON) Borrowed Time was buffed to no longer include hearing the killers terror radius."

Actually, if you look at the April 2021 dev update, the reason they buffed Borrowed Time was "to remove some confusing intricacies with how Borrowed Time interacts with some Killers and the Oblivious status effect." So wrong again.

"But tell me straight up that you do not want Twins 0.05 seconds back for Toy Sword. If you somehow don't, your whole post falls apart."

The nerfs in and of themselves have nothing to do with my post. I don't even give one about any of the nerfs because, as I've already said, they are meaningless. Again, it's not the WHAT, but the HOW and the WHY that is problematic. BHVR has it in their head that the addons are the problem with Twins' kill rate at higher MMR when it most assuredly isn't.

"I think they do have the root of it"

They don't. That's what this whole thread is about. It's not about Twins being too weak or Toy Sword being unfairly nerfed or whatever theories you dreamt up. It is about BHVR not having the root of the problem.

"this thread is like we're supposed to pretend that Twins is a bad killer and undeserving of these minor nerfs."

That is so far form the truth it's insane. I literally stated in the OP that yes, Twins is extremely strong. My issue is that Twins' addons are NOT what makes Twins extremely strong and the changes to their addons do absolutely nothing to address the issue, and if BHVR thinks it does, they have no idea of what actually needs to be done with Twins.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

Because in my personal experience, "Look at a wall" doesn't look anymore since they can apparently blind the back of my head now.

in Why using lightborn Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765246#Comment_2765246
Last sentence in OPs first paragraph: "They said more or less that "Twins' play rate and kill rate are low in lower MMR, but absolutely monstrous in high MMR, so we nerfed their best addons.""
It's your thesis statement.

And you clearly didn't read anything beyond that because the entire rest of the post is talking about why that logic is faulty and fails to solve anything.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

@Steel_Eyed said:
It’s like the underlying issue of Twins being one of the strongest killers in the game is being ignored by this thread. You are fighting for a brown add on. Why? Cause it makes a busted killer more busted.
They buffed the iridescents and not one of you cares. Just the brown add on “please devs.” They should delete Toy Sword and knock us all off the nipple.

It's like you didn't even read the post. The problem has nothing to do with the nerfs themselves. The problem is not the what, but the why. The nerfs are meaningless and only serve to demonstrate that BHVR doesn't know what the root of the problem is.

Also, for the record, the Iridescent Pendant buff is a joke. 45 seconds isn't enough to justify the drawback of having to surrender your entire power to both activate and get value out of it.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

Yeah, they're so incredibly hidden. Like that one time I loaded into a match of reworked Gideon's as Survivor and could LITERALLY SEE THE FLAME OF A HEX TOTEM DURING THE LOADING SHOT.

in "Totem spots are better hidden in newer and upgraded maps" Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

Well it's simple. I am. I'm just playing the game so I have an asymm to play while I wait for VHS to hit early access.

in How are you not bored of this game? Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761718#Comment_2761718
They have also stated they can't instantly fix some issues. Reworking/addressing killers takes time, and you need people to have the time to work on it. Even if you hire an entire studio just on reworking/addressing killers, some killers will have less priority.
Its faster and easier to simply nerf the strongest add-ons to buy survivors more time to avoid such a scenario, than it is to keep the scenario the same for what could be a few months. Ghostface and Legion have been on the list for longer and are played more often. They quite simply have priority over Twins.
If you're gonna use info against the Devs, at least use ALL the given info. There simply isn't enough people to keep all killers updated. Heck, even games like League of Legends, they just adjust the numbers if a character is too strong in higher ELO untill they have time to rework their most powerful ability. No one really shits on that.
DBD has a community with heavy double standards, pointing to other games when certain things could be done better, but ignoring other games when they do the exact same thing.

The issue isn't with the time they budgeted to make these changes. The issue is that the changes they made and, more importantly, their justification for doing so, egregiously show that they have no idea what they're doing for this character.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

@GeneralV said:
I am glad you asked!
I presume your question targets a scenario where he remained completely unchanged, so: no much-needed QoL improvements and no stupid reworks.
In that specific scenario, I would say he would most likely be a bit higher up on the Tier List.
Self-Care, which most people considered to be his biggest weakness, is no longer in the meta. The Dream World slowdown could directly impact COH, which is the biggest addition to the meta since his rework happened.
DS is weaker now, so are Toolboxes, BT (which hardly affected him anyway) and Exhaustion.
While some of his weaknesses would have remained, namely being unable to interact with Survivors during the Transition and lack of mobility, others would be long gone by now.

The problem with CoH and Freddy is that it's the same problem as Self Care being so strong against him, except now the healing speeds are doubled. If old Freddy went against CoH, Freddy's slowdown wouldn't counter the healing speed; the healing speed would counter Freddy's slowdown.

in How would old freddy perform NOW with all the perks we have now? Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

Not a hack. Zombie AI is just that bad.

in Frozen zombies. New hack? Comment by fblurbg January 22, 2022

@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763216#Comment_2763216
You have to see it like Blades little brother: Butter knife.

A butter knife could still theoretically slice something.

in Finally ! Thanks BHVR Patrick for the SBMM explanation Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763152#Comment_2763152
The SBMMR isn´t bad. It just hasn´t anything to do with skill.
So they might just rename it to KEBMMR (Kill/Escape Based Matchmaking).
Don´t blame the KEBMMR for poor balancing.

"The skill-based matchmaking isn't bad, it just doesn't matchmake based off of skill."

This kitchen knife isn't bad, it's just dull and doesn't cut food.

in Finally ! Thanks BHVR Patrick for the SBMM explanation Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@Dionysus42 said:
Some are claiming 4 seconds extra and others around 2 seconds. We don't know who to believe!

The new speed adds 4 seconds to the time for healing yourself and 2 seconds to the time for healing others.

in BHVR please clarify CoH Post-Nerf Speeds Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763006#Comment_2763006
The vast majority of the changes to those Killers were good, healthy ones. Yes, they still have problems, like Hag's ability to camp without camping like Twins can, or Wraith's overreliance on an uninteractive hit-and-run playstyle, but overall these Killers have received changes that make them feel better and/or buff them without making them game-ruiningly obnoxious. It's the exact opposite in the case of Twins.
But this absolutely was not always the case. Wraith himself received so many changes before, and hardly any of them were effective at making him better and not add-on reliant. Then he got that old-Windstorm (lunge after power) made basekit, and then they gave him that current-Windstorm basekit buff which finally pushed him into being good. Before that, he got meaningless buffs and a couple really stupid nerfs. A bit like Twins, really.
So while I don't think they will fix all of Twins' issues I do have some faith in it.
What I do not have faith in, is the length of time it will take to make these changes.

The changes Wraith received were plenty good, like the addon pass, basekit Windstorm, letting him break stuff in cloak, starting the trial cloaked, et cetera et cetera. They were not; on their own, BAD changes. The issue is that was Wraith was so hilariosuly bad they just weren't enough at the time. It's like if Legion got buffed to move at 135% in Frenzy and then three months later got buffed to have a 3.5 second fatigue. More absolutely needs to be done, but to call these changes bad is some crackhead level insanity.

It took them way longer than it should have to make Wraith worthwhile, but as long as that road was, they never really deviated from it. The only real issue with Wraith now is that he's the epitome of a hit-and-run Killer in a game where a) That's supposed to be Legion's job, and b) Healing speeds are overpowered as all getout. I'd prefer if Wraith were turned down a path of being more about his unique lunge boost to make him a 1v1 Killer that's more akin to Pig or Spirit than generic ranged zoner clone seventy-four, but he's not the worst thing in the video game right now by any stretch.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762977#Comment_2762977
bold of you to assume this is at all wasting my time.
why should you trust they get twins right? i have no clue, because i cannot change your bias.
i could point to killers like doctor and wraith and hag, to show they can make good changes to keep the spirit of a power in-tact while helping the killer. i could also point to freddy and billy to show that they cant.
they are very inconsistent when it comes to these things, so it's a question really of how well legion + ghostface come out before anyone can effectively make up their minds

"i could point to killers like doctor and wraith and hag, to show they can make good changes to keep the spirit of a power in-tact while helping the killer. i could also point to freddy and billy to show that they cant."

The differences between those Killers and Twins is that BHVR did not repeatedly demonstrate their inability to make good changes. The vast majority of the changes to those Killers were good, healthy ones. Yes, they still have problems, like Hag's ability to camp without camping like Twins can, or Wraith's overreliance on an uninteractive hit-and-run playstyle, but overall these Killers have received changes that make them feel better and/or buff them without making them game-ruiningly obnoxious. It's the exact opposite in the case of Twins.

Let me put it this way: If they announced Doctor changes tomorrow, I'd look at their overall good track record for Doctor and be like "I'm sure that they won't be so bad." If they announced changes for Oni, a Killer who has barely been touched since release, I would be pessimistic since I don't have much faith in BHVR as a whole, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of good tidings for the samurai guy. If they announced changes for Trickster, whose track record is one of the most spectacularly disastrous in this video game, I'd get nervous. Twins is very much on Trickster's level in that regard, so I have zero confidence in what they'll do with them.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762955#Comment_2762955
correct
then my interest died and i wouldnt have replied were it not for that insult.

So, you admit you can't come up with a good rebuttal? Because if you can't, I'd rather do something more productive than debate an insult that did a big meanie bo-beanie to your feelings. Let's not waste each other's time here, ay?

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761866#Comment_2761866
First of all seeing how many MANY bugs the Twins patch had at release either they didnt have enough time to fix them before release or there was something weird going at the studio like the entire team getting COVID or a strike or something else because the amount of bugs and overlooked stuff wasnt normal, even for them, I worked as software developer and deadlines are very very strict, usually before releasing a patch or a software tool people have to do a ton of overtime to get it right and even with all that overtime is usually not enough, sadly this is a common thing in software developing companies, especially in game developing where deadlines are vital (nobody cares if Windows wathever releases 2 months later but a game getting delayed 2 months? thats a disaster).
In any case Twins main problem wasnt the bugs, but how sluggy they turned to be, the amount of bugs is just a sign they needed to put more work on them before being release.
if they're so clever as to keep nerfing Twins to avoid a Keter-class death-of-the-game scenario, why did they release them with such unhealthy fundamental flaws?
Because its not the first time they have an idea, release it and the comunity finds something else (usually more efficient and unfun) with that idea, you have a ton of examples of this, Pyramid Head being able to see his cages+no DS+no BT turned him into the best camper its just one example and Im sure they didnt expect Twins to turn into the insane slugging experience they are now, there is no way they designed the Killer with such gameplay in mind, same as I dont think they had in mind Charlotte perma body blocking Hexes at release while dormant or Lockers making you completely inmune to Victor (both tings had to be changed).
I can give more examples of "creative" gameplay strategies the community had and BHVR had to nerf or rework because they overlooked them, for both sides like old Odd Bulbs, mass old Soul Guard, Deathslinger free zoning, Legion Moonwalking and a long etc, all those have in common being extremely unfun things that got overlooked by BHVR, same as Twins being such mass sluggers.
But Twins needs an entire rework, the whole gameplay design is flawed, its not like Odd Bulbs which got fixed by tweaking the numbers or Soul Guard with a CD, you cant fix Twins with small tweaks to CDs, stuns and the likes, they need the Freddy treatment.
[Twins' play rate has been extraordinarily low even though they've been in the game for a year and everyone knows how they work and what their addons do]
Because they are awful and they must stay awful until they are reworked lest people start playing them, any time something starts to get momentum it will be nerfed.
Fun and unfun is subjective, but if you ask me, there are far more frustrating things for Survivors to go against than a Killer whose kit forces them to slug and camp most of the time, a lot of which are far more prevalent in games. Including, but not limited to:
-Zoning Killers
-Killers who slug and camp not because they have to, but because they want to
-Zoning Killers who slug and camp not because they have to, but because they want to
"Fun and unfun is subjective"... yes and no, it is subjective but in a game that revolves around fixing gens and being chased staying slugged for half of the game waiting to get picked up only to be slugged again by a goblin at match speed 3 is not very fun, people dont get into this game to experience that, Twins is consistently the only Killer I see where people DC or suicide on first hook in a lot of trials, I dont see any other Killer getting as many DCs and suicides as I see against them, its very obvious people despise playing against them.
About the 3 things you put as example, sure camping is annoying and they are already working on something to curb it a bit too, the diference is camping lasts for 2 minutes while getting slugged lasts for 4 minutes not counting when you get picked up and downed again in less than 30 seconds, people complain about camping because it takes away the posibility of playing for 2 minutes, slugging does the same for double the time, zoning can be annoying but at least a lot of times there are counterplays and it doesnt deprive you of playing the game, other sluggers sure are annoying, especially the ones who do it to troll but at least they are excedingly rare unlike getting that from Twins.
X to doubt all you want, the fact is Twins is universally hated and for some reason BHVR just keeps nerfing and nerfing them, even some of the nerfs are directed to make them clunkier to play as increasing the time it takes to switch from one to the other, it looks like they dont want people playing them that much.

That's a whole lot of writing to propagate your tinfoil hat theory that can be simply explained away by "DBD's coding is atrocious" and "There are far worse and far more prevalent things in this game than Twins".

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762940#Comment_2762940
I literally don't care about the topic of the thread, I'm simply defending myself. You were the one to make the comment and thus I'm using the thread where the comment was made to defend myself- regardless of what other people are on about.

You certainly cared enough to come on here the first place with your snarky "Who's gonna tell em" reply like the screenshot you showed is any reassurance of anything.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762327#Comment_2762327
thats great i made my comment about the thinly veiled insult you attempted to make in your comment which was therefore entirely on topic and not derailing the thread, since youre the one that made it in the first place in your comment.

Sure, continue deflecting about an offhanded jab. That's totally what the thread is about. One hundred percent. The entire reply section is full of people hotly debating that singular line.

You know what the thread is about. Answer the question or admit that you can't.

What's that thing people say on Twitter? "Cope, seethe, mald"?

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761457#Comment_2761457
Ever tried to make use of it in soloQ?

Yes. I don't leave home without it because it's incredibly strong in solo queue. It allows me and my teammates to expediently take care of ourselves and each other without exchanging a single syllable of communication. It is an INSANELY strong solo queue perk.

in The way BHVR nerfed CoH Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@Predated said:
Thing is, there is a very good argument to be made that a specific killer is capable of camping so well because those addons give them a slight edge. They said they didnt want to nerf Twins, because they feel Twins would be too weak otherwise. There are some adjustments to be made to maps themselves(like, consider the entirety of the basement, including it's staircase as a hook, so Twins cant stand on the stairs and camp), but changing Twins' basekit is only gonna be bad.

The problem is, the addons DON'T give Twins an edge in camping because they don't affect what makes Twins' camping good. What makes Twins' camping good is the ability to dump Victor underneath a hook and then run around with Charlotte applying standard pressure. None of the addons they changed had any effect on that whatsoever. The base kit is what needs to be changed because the base kit is what's problematic.

Also, the whole "standing on the basement stairs and camping" strat has been gone for months. I don't know when they changed in (unsurprising seeing as how like three-fifths of Twins' changes are undocumented in any patch notes), but Charlotte can no longer unbind or switch to Victor unless she is further than 16 meters away from the basement hook, just like with normal hooks.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761620#Comment_2761620
I get that your favorite food for breakfast, lunch, and dinner is the heel of BHVR's boot
Appreciate the compliment but that's actually not true- I ######### talk the devs quite often when I'm with friends. When I'm on a platform when the devs can see my comments, however, I tend to turn that into actual feedback so they can- you know- improve their game?
Foreign concept, I know.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B7XBG91L2ERG/image.png
I'd appreciate it if you could try your best to not attempt an insult only to fail miserably. It's not a good look for you x

Never got back around to this. Good job proving nothing, I guess, but try not to derail here. I'd still like you to answer my question: With how Twins has been adjusted and changed in the year they've been out, why should I trust BHVR to make the right call whenever these changes come out? Just because changes are coming doesn't mean GOOD changes are coming. If anything, I'm dreading the changes they have in store because with the track record for Twins updates so far, I have every reason to believe they're going to suck.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@SunsetSherbet said:
I find it hilarious they want to nerf Twins for being "monsters" yet the stats they showed, shows Twins is the LEAST played killer, and has the third lowest killrate. But they need a nerf lol. Doesn't that mean every single killer needs a nerf besides Trickster and Nurse, going by the infallible stats? There is no logic at all in nerfing a killer with the third worst killrate in the game. It is nonsensical.
If they're so good at camping people out, they'd probably have a kill rate closer to Bubba and not freaking Trickster.

Twins being "good at camping" and Bubba being "good at camping" are two different things. Bubba is good at camping in that his camping is hard to counter. Twins are good at camping in that they can camp the hook while still walking around doing normal Killer things. So, like, I totally buy the idea that "good" or "high MMR" Twins have insanely high kill rates. The tradeoff for camping is that you're stuck at the hook not pressuring Survivors if they're doing gens, and Twins can just... ignore that. That's HUGE. And something does need to be done about it. But the problem is, the changes they implemented don't do anything about it at all. They just make Twins feel even worse and demoralize the people who play them even more. They accomplish nothing and shouldn't have happened.

in So, hearing BHVR's logic about the Twins nerfs really shows that they don't understand the problem. Comment by fblurbg January 21, 2022

@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761760#Comment_2761760
BHVR released them in that state because they had to release something, its just they didnt have enough crunch time to fix all the bugs plus the problem with them is not bugs, its how campy and sluggy their playstyle is, they created a monster. One problem BHVR has is they have something in mind and its awesome but they dont really see the thing from all angles, I dont think they expected players to mass slug to such degree, this is a rather common ocurrence (PH blocking cages and being able to see the auras and rush to camp or Deathslinger zoning for free with raise/low aim are examples of how the comunity finds stuff BHVR overlooks).
What they say in the QA may or may not be true or they may be sharing only part of the info, and in any case they nerfing the best performing addons at high MMR does help my claim, if word of those addons being very strong spreads it may entice some people to play Twins more, which is what I believe they dont want.
Im not saying the game is bleeding players because of Twins, nowhere in my post says that, what I did say is IN AN HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION if they were to become meta and picked a lot it would kill the game because they are awful to play against and the best way to avoid that HYPOTETHICAL SITUATION is to nerf them to the ground.

"BHVR released them in that state because they had to release something, its just they didnt have enough crunch time to fix all the bugs"

X to doubt

"plus the problem with them is not bugs, its how campy and sluggy their playstyle is, they created a monster."

So, again, if they're so clever as to keep nerfing Twins to avoid a Keter-class death-of-the-game scenario, why did they release them with such unhealthy fundamental flaws?

"in any case they nerfing the best performing addons at high MMR does help my claim, if word of those addons being very strong spreads it may entice some people to play Twins more, which is what I believe they dont want."

[Twins' play rate has been extraordinarily low even though they've been in the game for a year and everyone knows how they work and what their addons do]

X TO DOUBT

"IN AN HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION if they were to become meta and picked a lot it would kill the game because they are awful to play against and the best way to avoid that HYPOTETHICAL SITUATION is to nerf them to the ground."

Fun and unfun is subjective, but if you ask me, there are far more frustrating things for Survivors to go against than a Killer whose kit forces them to slug and camp most of the time, a lot of which are far more prevalent in games. Including, but not limited to:

-Zoning Killers

-Killers who slug and camp not because they have to, but because they want to

-Zoning Killers who slug and camp not because they have to, but because they want to

Like, I get it, Twins camps and slugs a lot. But Killers have been camping and slugging since the game came out. It's not like Twins invented the strat and it's not like the strat wasn't strong and prevalent before, during, and after Twins' release. Frankly, if slugging and camping is what makes Twins unfun, then they're one of the least offensive Killers in this game, all things considered. I'd rather get slugged and camped by a Killer who doesn't shut down loops for free than a Killer who does. Hell, I'm at a point where I LIKE going against Twins now because in my head I'm thinking, "Phew, at least it's not another zoning Killer."