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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569476#Comment_3569476
Yeah but you add more jungle gyms and you make more windows into windows which is NOT very interactive.
Its not? The killer is interacting with the survivor. Its the definition of interactive. But i am all ears. What would you considere interactive in the game?
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@crogers271 said:
I'm going to focus on the radical idea, maps and killers just kind of distract from that.
Default gen time:120 seconds2nd Object:4 more or less randomly placed control cabinets. The survivors can see the auras of those cabinets in white color. Every survivor can see the aura of other survivors who are within 5 meter radius around control cabinets. Survivors activate control cabinets by solving a mini game.Every activated cabinet reduces gen repair time by 8 seconds across all generators.Of all the ideas I've ever heard for 'survivors should have a secondary objective', this one isn't bad.
Problem is, given the math here doing the cabinets is not really optional, but more of a mandatory thing. Thus instead of the survivors having different options on what to do, they now first have to do the cabinets, then the gens.
It is in my opinion not 100% mandatory, thats why i stick to the idea. It is probably a wise thing to start with the control cabinets first, but if you fail to do the 2nd object right away, the round is not lost. Sometimes it might be simply better to do only 2 of those and when a better opportunity comes up later, you do the last 1-2 control cabinets. At least in my mind, this will add a lot of dynamic to the game.
Of course, as i said, this is not perfectly ballanced, but rather an idea. And also.. of course, since the object is there, survivors MUST have more options (idealy loops ect) to defend. The only other option would be a ton of added bushes where survivor can hide or a 4th hook stage, but i would not like this idea at all.
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@Brimp said:
The last thing survs need is MORE pallets and gyms even with the longer gen times which can be reduced.
@GoodJobGuys92 said:
I hate it. 2 min gen time just to have 32s taken off, but then killer would have to deal with more pallets. Survivors also don't need another base kit crutch.
The objective would make the rounds longer, but not less interesting for both sides. Survivors have a 2nd objective to do, which adds a not to complex 2nd layer on excisting one.
Longer rounds will lead to (obviously) a completly different type of ballance form. This type of ballance can only be fulfilled for longer survive time for survivors. The by far most attractive form is obviously the chase. For both sides.
I personally dont get the allergic reaction on "more pallets" because it is the logical consequence for a 2nd object.
Why are you even playing the game if more chase is such a bad thing? I am serious, what else do you enjoy in DBD? Sitting on gens? Patroling gens? Camping? I dont get it. Having more and longer chases is the best the game could offer, at least for me.
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All you say is correct and most of your tips are at least in my book common sense.
But you are wrong with your last part.
Survivors, even strong ones do complain about those addons. The best addons on blight are so busted, that even the best survivor teams will get rolled against a good Blight. There is really no room for duscission. Defending these addons harms your argument quite a bit. You might be right when you say that no addons blight is maybe super strong but not overpowered, but there it ends. Defending those addons is like defending old megablink Nurse. Actually, i heared the exact same argument on her back then.
And no, before you even start - i suck with Blight, because i dont play him that much. But i LOVE playing against a good Blight who is not running those addons. One of my favourit killers.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568772#Comment_3568772
Easy example how you fail the see how good basekit DS can be. I get unhooked with DS, if the killer is trapper, hag, demogorgon,singularity,skull merchant,pinhead and so on you can cleanse/destroy their traps/props and still be completely safe because of DS. The killer might not even be tunneling then WOOP all their setup is gone and if they go for the survivor who is taking away the setup they still get DSd and lose time for it, they are in a lose-lose situation.
That is a fair argument. On top of that, we both forgot something else. What if a survivor lets say runs into a hag trap and gets downed. The hag might not even have tunneled and the survivor just randomly ran into that trap.
I think an option would be base kit DS, but it would not hurt if the timer is only 30-45 seconds. It is really not that easy to find a great solution to that problem.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567701#Comment_3567701
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567932#Comment_3567932
we both are
woops i missclicked man he is even my avatar for the forums
If the outcome is a tie, i will let PH win, since you missclicked.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568772#Comment_3568772
So, what good players will do is none of those things and body block. Know that you have to tear through an automatic BT would warn you, but if you drop then and lose track of time and pick them up too soon it's punishing. That's what old DS bully squads were doing. That's why it got so bad in the first place.
Showing DS to killer is an interesting idea. Not very thematic considering the source material, but balancing.
You are talking about a time when DS had no downside. Those so called bully squads (who were more trolls then actually good teams) could heal and still had DS up - that was the point. Without beeing able to do that, DS would not work that way.
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And another day in paradise.
First game hard tunnel by 5K hours Nurse, could run her for a good minute. During that time, 1 gen was touched. Funny enough because of my recent experience, i thought i bring DS, better then nothing. Tunneled of hook, she eats ds. Tunnel more, gets the down relative quick since i dont gain any distance. Getting camped to death. 1 Gen done.
2nd game random gets destroyed after 30 seconds in the game because of afk. Blight tunnels the random off the hook. I have 1 gen done, while the team is doing pumpkin smashing. Game is a 3v1. Ends pretty quick.
3rd game Mastermind. Goes for me first, after 1-2 minutes we have the first gen. He gives up. Goes for a random, gets the down. Tunnels him off the hook. We are in 3v1 2 gens up. We loose the game.
Its not even that killer goes for a second person meanwhile, just straight tunnel.
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Very close one. Bubba takes it for me.
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@Etherelda said:
Tunneling is a requirement now to score at least 1K against a semi-competent survivor team.
Then i play against extremly bad survivors 80% of the time.
@TransverseCaster said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568339#Comment_3568339
For years I complained that old DS was killing the game. Functionally it worked to do exactly as you have said, but it would mean that it'd be a staple perk again. Facing one in a match is fine. Facing four every single match is egregious.
Some may argue that a killer will (almost)never face a single DS if you are not tunneling. DS, like i said, should have a simple rule: It deactivates once a survivor is doing a healing, cleansing, repairing or sabotaging action.
If the killer really eats a DS with those perk restrictions, the survivor did either nothing (which is arguable the worst survivors can do) or the killer simply tunneled. And if, for whatever reason, the survivor takes a down for a teammate, the killer can still slug that person and go for the next one. The pressure he creates with 2 downs is in a normal game already loosing condition to survivor teams.
I would even be fine showcasing the killer that the survivor has DS.
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@Annso_x said:
Saying "DBD has one if not the most toxic and generally speaking worst community someone can think off" because people tryhard and say "gg ez" in end game chat is quite endearing ngl. Preserve your innocent soul and don't play any multiplayer FPS game ever please.
Interesting point of few. Gaming communitys must be in a really bad place right now if toxic behavour is fine. But hey, my innocent soul lasted for over 25 years in gaming, i might make another year or two until it falls apart. Sidenote: I have played infamous toxic games like LoL, but even there its not nearly as bad as it is in DBD. I might not be alone with that complain either, at least according to countless steam reviews that agree how miserable this community is.
But i am glad you enjoy that stuff. I wish you could take this burden of my slim shoulders.
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@KSzerker said:
Tunneling isn't a thing, much like genrush, it's just people playing the game. Take your L and move on.
I have not lost all those games, its not about win or loose. Its about experience. And this experience when it happens once in 10 games is manageable, but not in every single game.
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@Rickprado said:
Sorry but tunneling and camping cannot be seen as "toxic behaviour": i would say in 80% of the matches, its just a strategy to put pressure on the other team. There is sometimes when a killer camps because it received a teabag, but i think its not the majority of times. I also don't consider teabagging, pointing and click a flashlight a toxic behaviour - its a type of mindgame that survivors do against killers to provoke and be chased.
Now, post-chat offense, yes, its toxic, and its a problem in this community. People can't understand that its just to go next, they need to rage.
I think most of the "toxic" behaviour in DBD happens after the match ends, with post game chat or messages in personal profiles.
I did not say it is always toxic, an act of trying the best to piss off the other team. In some cases i have wittnessed, it clearly was, but often - as you say, it is just a "strategy". This is no hot take.
Does it make it less awful for one side? Of course not.
That is the core of the problem. When it is smart to kill one person off quickly by camping and tunneling, it creates an absolutly discusting experience for 4 out of 5 players.
I miss old DS. Killer were much less into tunnel modus, because they knew playing like that had consiquences which often resulted in loosing the game. Now everything is free to go, nobody runs DS anymore because it is not worth a perk slot, you simple dont gain anought distance.
There are in my opinion only 2 options:
- DS as it is now as basekit so killer know they will have to eat that if they play that "strategy".
- Old DS with a at least 4 or 5 second stun. With all the restrictions of course (working on gen deactivates it)
Both options would be more then fair. Whenever you get DS'd, you simple deseve it.
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@TransverseCaster said:
I see that I voted correctly and two others did not.
I was suprised that PH won the Round 1 bracket.
May i ask, why you think playing against PH is fun? What do you like about him so much? Is it just the looks and sounds (which are great) or gameplay? I am genuinely curious. It seems i dont get the point of him.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Blight assuming w/o his strongest addons 😒
True, basekit Blight can be really a good experience while with busted addons he is just a pain.
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@BlackRabies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567152#Comment_3567152
Not really no. Once the tail attack happens the camera gets softly locked in place so you can't look left or right during the animation.
Sure, once you release the attack, there cant really be a change of direction, but i mean during the wind up?
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566935#Comment_3566935
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4JCH0RIW1D98/image.png
Its 0.2 to "pull the tail up" and 0.4 to actually hit, you have 0.6 seconds to move and dodge.
If you're telling me you're 3x slower than the average human, then thats clearly not a "xenomorph has no counterplay" issue.
I have not played the alien, but isnt it able to turn the camera during his tail attack?
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Freddy, Artist and Wraith are neck on neck. Maybe we can get a few more votes in for a winner? :)
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
4 bad ones man the randomizer was mean on this one
Twins, Nurse and Knight are really not a lot of fun to go against, but i like Blight. Unfortunatly, he has some really busted addons, those can rob the fun quite a bit.
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Hardest round for me, since i like MM, Huntress, Demo and Ghostface. Demo takes the cake for me, because the way he looks, sounds is very nice. On top of that, you wont see him that much anymore due to expired licenses.
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All but Xenomorph. Bubba is my clear pick, but i dont mind Nemesis or Legion to much.
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I would agrue that the Nun is defnitily not unlikely. I bet that BHVR has this license on the radar, if not already worked out something.
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@kin said:
Well I do not know...I believe that the db is not so big a threshold for entry, because first of all you are unlikely to have to study all the content in the game
Most of the perks pale in front of 4-5 perks that everyone uses and you just need to know how the 4-5 that are most often used in matches work and always expect them. Know several assemblies, the most effective combinations and when to use them best.
And for the murderers, many moments are repeated, there are only a couple of murderers whose gameplay is directly riddled with a bunch of different chips and radically different from others. The knowledge gained on Freddy in beating the survivors in the constructions will definitely be needed by you on the same cenobite, an alien, and it is not desirable to know those some killers thoroughly for a confort game.
The survivors have almost the same:why do you need to know thoroughly how to play against the twins if they almost never appear in matches? Most often there are only a few killers and the knowledge of how to play against them with enough to play comfortably, especially the knowledge gained against these can help you play against others. Again, the abilities of murderers are often based on the same elements, some killers even repeat the tactics of the game for and against, except that the efficiency and method of execution change.
I want to say that, for the most part, this is not completely new, which should be studied from the very beginning, but instead, after a certain base, they only get a couple of details that you don't always have to know thoroughly and which often do not have the same differences in relation to other killers: the same Freddy Krueger, the skull merchant, the clown are played in the same way: Survivor in the design - you use your ability, if he is not smart enough not to run into it, you strike. Of course, this is a strong simplification, but again, many moments are repeated at least in the chase.
Although the game is not in pursuit, too, is not much different...- try to fix the generators.The game is not simple, yes...but it's not terribly complicated, especially if you want, you can always find all this information.
I think we have a compleltly different definition what mastering means. Sure, knowing the most popular perks and how some killers work is fne, but i would argue that what you discribe is so far off "mastering" the game, i would even say this is right in the middle of beginner level.
What you discribe at the end is probably what i actually mean. This is not "trying to fix generators". Thats why i made this topic. Most people think that this about everything you need to know in DBD (plus some little extras like looping), and that is in my humble opinion the reason, most people play this on a very casual level while thinking they actually know how to be good at the game.
Someone said it before at the very top: The game does not give you a good feeback like it is in other games what you are actually doing wrong and it is very hard to tell for someone who has not many many hours played (and watched guides/tutorials). And even those people struggle a lot.
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Not a straight answer to that possible for me. Depends a lot on many factors. As a survivor i might run the killer, lets say Pig 3 minutes and a strong survivor map and i still dont think it was a very good chase. Against a good Blight in a 1v1 enviroment, even 1 Minute can be a very sold chase time.
The same goes for killer. When i play Nurse and i fail to get a down within 40 seconds or so, that is probably not a very good chase. On the other hand, i play Wraith and i get 2 hits within that time and a pallet out of the way, i can be very happy with that outome.
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@zarr said:
There is much, much more that goes into playing this game well than most people casually or vehemently assume. I won't go into any of that, it suffices to say that tournaments and 1v1 competitions show that there are teams and players that are consistently much better than others, and that's in an environment composed of players that are already better than 99% of those that don't participate in these competitions. People look at some content creators and think they are the holy grail of what is possible in terms of mastery in DbD, yet in actual competitive environments they would struggle to be mid-field. Doesn't mean they are bad, far from (and to be fair, they can be better at some things that competitive players barely or never even do because they are not win-oriented), it means the game has an a lot higher skill ceiling than many people realize. Even players with thousands upon thousands of hours make fairly fundamental mistakes fairly frequently, and almost nobody actually goes into customs to practice very specific things to really understand and master them. In pub matches, most of everyone just goes with the flow, hitting a plateau at some point and never really overcoming it.
If you want to put yourself to the test and challenge yourself, join the DbD scrim or DbD League discord servers, and play as killer against competitive(ly-minded) teams (or against such killers, if you already have a survivor group you play with) or play 1v1s on DbD League's ladder. You might have a rude awakening, but it will still be an awakening, that might get you interested in this realm of the game which can also be fun as well as allow you to reach higher levels of skill.
Here is a brief introductory video on this, by comp player V1rtual_Reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XX3PkAfoRA
The links to the discord servers can be found in the video description (DBDScrims Server: https://discord.gg/Fs6n5kSPu9 DBDLeague Server: https://discord.gg/U2a5Ku3ZMp).
I can absolutly confirm this.
I for myself, while beeing extremly rusty but still a somewhat pretty good veteran player has no problem running a normal killer on public for the majority of the game. When going in a competetive 1on1 scenario... oh boy.. this is a completly different story.
And yes, the often praised "gods" in this game can often barly even hold a candle against the really good players.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564671#Comment_3564671
I don't see value in learning generator spawns, outdoors they are fairly easy to spot... Totem spawns sure, but that's just memorizing locations on the map layout as well, just like tile positions.
Where to run is most often straight forward: to a safe part of the map, the only times you should not do that is if someone is working there on a Gen.
As for all that killer specific stuff, since you only know before mentioned structures for sure there is not much to learn but figure out on the spot by what you already know, so even in that scenario there is not too much you can learn beforehand because of all the rng.
That is actually a very insteresting reply by you, since it somewhat proves my point. I assume you are a player with probably many hours in this game and i also like to belive you are interested in it (over 1000 posts). Yet, even an advanced player like you seems to not fully realise the importance of advanced map knowledge. Doing a random generator at a random time is absolutly not what a master would do.
Maybe you actually do it right, or at least in a decent way, but it seems you have not really dealt with map knowledge on master level.
I am not saying this is all rocket science (beyond master level, it actually is) but i stronly believe, that 99% of the player base thinks exactly like that. There is nothing wrong with it, but it showcases that a complex game is treated on a very basic casual level while a shooter f.e. CS GO is treated way more in depth.
This is by no means ment to be rude or condescending, i only want to point out that there is much more to it as it appears, but nobody really cares. And i think this is one of the main reasons the skill gap in this game also in terms of knowledge is so far apart.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564630#Comment_3564630
What exactly is there besides it? You cannot know for sure which setup. Spawns so you don't necessarily know if loops are chain able or not, all you can know is which parts of the map are stronger, which can only be judged by the safe variants, since everything else is random... So what exactly is there besides knowing how the map is built?
There are tons of things to learn. Totemspawns and generator spawns for example. How to run the map especially, how to traverse. Which zones to run in this and that situation. Which gens to do when and where. Which structure can you run in a certain erea vs a cetrain killer that you wont deadzone you. And basically the opposite for killer.
Thats why it is hard to learn the maps, because there is much more to it then just knowing the shape and size of it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564432#Comment_3564432
Yeah but the question is how much shooter experience did you have before? You could translate that experience into csgo whereas DBD does not really have other games that allow you to do the same...
Maps in dbd are less complicated but far more, while most of them are utter trash, besides indoor maps they all work by the same pattern, mainbuilding, shack and jungle gyms are in fixed positions and all the other tiles are mostly rng... So you have to learn like 5 things about every map + what tiles there are... I think it is possible to learn all this within a day if you really wanted, whereas made spots and such takes much longer in my opinion...
As for csgo in general, I used to play it with friends, but I was always terrible at the game, and even my buddies with a few hundred maybe thousand hours weren't global, so maybe you are more of the exception than the rule in that case...
Seems more like the question of what is mastery... I would say the closest to mastery you can get is usually the pro scene or some players that are at a similar level at only one or two heroes or killers or whatever...
The skill gap between matches is that the mrr in this game is basically useless, because it cannot grasp skill and works with a soft cap so us mediocre players can still get matched against Knightlight Nurse... There was some information by data miners that this softcap is basically so low you can reach it in a single day... So yeah, unless you are completely new to the game, you probably have the chance to get matched against people with several thousand hours that play for 7 years...
Before CS GO? Almost none, i was more into strategy. I played a little bit Quake 3 and some single player shooters but thats about it.
I strongly disagree you can learn every single map within a day. Maybe in a week but then only on paper. Playing them is a completly different story. I would even argue, that the majority of players dont know every map plus tile that well after months of gaming. Especially because of their random nature its much harder as if maps had set tiles.
That is a good question, what actually is mastery. I would say (and that is also not easy to define) the moment when the game becomes 2nd nature and you know everything relevant.
True, the MMR seems to be not working that well, since a good (or decent) player will reach the highest relevant MMR very quick - probably within less then 100 games, depending on the player ofc.
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@Archol123 said:
I don't think DBD is close to being as hard to master as let's say Starcraft 2,dota/League, CSGO or Fighting games... It's not even close, the RNG makes it so that you don't need to learn too much about maps but the general map layout, perks are mostly irrelevant because 90% of them don't get used anyway because they don't have an impact that is relevant for you, same goes for killer addons.
As for the skill involved in playing, yeah sure you can spend a few thousand hours in survivors and the same for many of the killers, while probably a majority of them is rather easy too Master, with not much other than m1 killer gameplay... But when you look at those really competitive games, where you actually can make a living out of it, and you have those players that play for like 10+ years every day 6-10 h you cannot tell me that dbd is even close to those... Macro Strategies in dbd are rather simple whereas when you think about strategy games with all the different build orders and unit counters and perhaps blind cou ter because some player you are facing mostly plays one thing and so on and so forth. As for the mechanical skill there are very few things in dbd that can compare, maybe Billy, Blight and so on, but not a lot of them. But even then all those precise inputs you have in strategy games are just overwhelmingly harder than anything you can do in dbd...
When i picked up CS GO it took me close to 600 hours to reach Global Elite and beeing able to hold that rank. Sure, this is not pro level, but had a strong grip on that game and knew basically everything the game had to offer, including nade spots, strategy and an overall good gamesense plus the machanics like movement and aim. It is a lot of muscle memory and that comes relatively quick when you practice every day.
Dont understand me wrong, getting a pro in CS GO might never happen, even if you spend 10.000 hours but i am not talking about that, i simply mean becoming a master of that game. There is a big difference.
Thinking about Dead by daylight, after 600 hours i think i was barely more then a advanced beginner. And when i look at many people i know from my POV even they have 1000+ hours they are still not much above beginner level, especially knowledge. Does that mean DBD is more difficult? Absoluty not, but the amount you have to learn to surpass beginner level and eventually reach mastering the game is so much more then in any shooter i know.
Maybe it is also the nature of the game, why not many people want to pick up the game and learn it properly because it has a casual touch and is not that serious? That would explain why the skillgrap between all those matches is sometimes sooo enorm.
After 5000 hours in DBD i dont think i am even close to a master in every aspekt. I am trash with quite a few killers (blight for example), and even to this day i do here and there silly mistakes as survivor that a master should not be doing.
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@caipt said:
I'd say shooters are harder to master simply because the skill ceiling on aim is infinite. DBD can be harder to learn and understand in some cases though.
I am not sure about that. Cant you also say the same for DBD in terms of lets say chase? There are so many maps, so many tiles and so many killer and every tile/combo of tiles or map in general plays very different against any of those killers.
And also a killer =/= killer. Every loadout or diferent combination of perks makes it often very diferent to play against a certaint killer, right? Same can be said about playing vs survivors. You as a killer has to react to so many factors, and every game is different.
On top of that, in DBD maps are always different, you most likely will never get the same map twice. The RNG factor plays a big roll.
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Slenderman is going to be the next.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562634#Comment_3562634
I can't. Because I don't record any of my games. And even if I were interested in doing it for the sake of this discussion, I am currently unable to do that.
But you could watch one of the thousands of Videos on YouTube with survivors playing against Xeno. Or you just watch this: https://youtu.be/e6C3nrU83Ts?si=5VwccuZw3d1Kxp1M
I watched this video a while ago and and honestly, the impression i had then is the same as i have now: Besides the turret thing, all he was saying is "hope the killer messes up or falls for your liittle tricks" in a different way. Funny enough, in the video all examples he showed were all misses or missplay by the Xenomorph. He actually could have hit most if not every single time if he would not have played so poorly.
I do understand the frustration and i would also hope they bring less of those type of killers.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563103#Comment_3563103
Hatch escapes don't matter. The game has been over for a while if it comes down to hatch, so just let me go next please
Hatch does matter a lot, as already been pointed out. Without hatch, survivors would give up very quickly if the game is not going well.
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Oni, not even close.
Doctor is also a lot of fun - his character and his laugh are just to good. Also gameplay versus him is mostly fine.
Spirt is much more fun then she used to be but still not great.
Deathslinger is my personal Archenemy besides Twins. His music and his appearence are the by far best things about him. Gameplay is much better then it used to be but same as Spirit he is a big Yikes for me.
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Hard one for me because i dont really mind any of them neither i absolutly love them. I go with the Pig, Mastermind and Clown close second.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563104#Comment_3563104
How do you figure?
It would definitely remove the whole slugging for the 4k thing. The only problem I could see would be survivors hiding for all eternity and that could be fixed as well.
If they remove hatch, survivors would give up really quick if the game is not going well. The hatch is a brillant and important thing to keep the game going. Sluging for the 4K might be nonsense to do, but it is better to have that in the game then removing hatch.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562964#Comment_3562964
4k for ego....
The 4k is the best outcome for the killer role and has a scoring event.
Why do we still blame players for wanting to achieve that?
Dont get me wrong - when you read my first post you will see that i dont care for sluging to much. Still, i do think it is valid to talk about it and even blame the killer who slugs in a public match.
Why you may ask? Because its nonsense. Apart of pissing of people and wasting time on the survivor team, also the killer wont gain anything beside the absolutly ridiculous ego boost you were talking about. A 3K is already a win for who is desperate enough for MMR gains (lol). Next, it is not profitable. Those tiny bloodpoint gain is a joke compared to minutes of waiting and maybe even playing a new match instead.
There is no logical reason to slug for 4K - besides the ego boost.
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What this randomizer has done here is just evil. None of them is really great fun to go against, but if i have to pick between those 4, maybe Trapper? Having paranoia steping into a trap the intire game is probably better then Trickster at least. And PH + Cenobite depens a lot on how the killer is playing and how the team is managing the situation.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562885#Comment_3562885
suicide button for downed survivors when there's only 2 left in the match
Hmm. Dont know about that.
If it is working instantly on demand, it would give the remaining survivor a free hatch. If it would work after sluged for lets say 1 minute, well then you going to get hooked or bleed out soon anyway. Its a tough one.
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Its annoying, but no big deal overall. If you think this game is not that serious, why do you bother? Grab a snack, watch some videos on youtube or go to the forum while the killer is wasting his time to get his meaningless 4k.
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While i think he is very strong in the right hands, he is probably not overpowered.
- Nightfall does not do that crazy much if you have decent map knowledge.
- I like his teleport a lot, more killers should have abilitys like that.
- His anti loop is the only thing i would considere nerfing or rather changing completly. In general, i am against any cheap form of antiloop because they make gameplay very one-dimensional. Artist, Alien and to some extent Dredge and Knight are some examples.
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Was a close one for me between Plague and Wraith.
Artist taking the lead is a big suprise for me.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
My favorite one isn't on the list, I like going against Wesker the most :)
This is Round 1.1. Its up to the people to decide which killer is most fun to verse out of those named 4. Eventually Wesker will show up in a different bracket.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558707#Comment_3558707
something in common with all those killer you named except for wraith is all killer being skill-shot based with mobility. Billy is skill-shot rush. Blight has skill-shot m1, same for Oni. Wesker is skill-shot dash. the problem with just adding more skill-shot dash type killers is that you end up with killer roaster that all looks and plays the same. there is only so much in skill-shot you can put before it is all the same thing.
that is why dev tend to make different killers with different goals and different gameplay. this is so that there is variety in how every killer plays. there is always some expected redundancy but their goal is to keep each killer fresh. I think what I want to see is more killer with instant down base-kit.
You are not wrong with what you say. Still, looking at those killers serpatly do not make me feel we have a lineup of copy paste hillbillys. They all play (and verse) very different.
I am aware the diversity is a good thing, even if that means we might get a few killers that are a pain to go up against. It is just mindblowing to me, that while there are only a handfull of "fun killers" they release so many of those considered to be unfun.
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Twins by a long margin.
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With No Mither, the survivor starts the trial in dying state.
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@Baal420 said:
Play the role of the killer is quite stressful, especially when you consider that within the first 50 seconds of the match, survivors can easily complete 2 generators, or at the very least, they are likely to finish one generator while having another an advanced. This is exacerbated by the fact that most maps are so bigger that efficient map control becomes nearly impossible. It's truly disheartening to observe how BHVR (Behaviour Interactive) significantly favors the survivor gameplay. Approximately 80% of survivors coordinate through external communication programs in pre-made groups, rendering the killer's role somewhat of a mockery. Playing as the killer becomes excessively stressful, and it's disappointing to see how they undermine the gaming experience for killers.
I agree that killer can be much more stressful then playing survivor.
Everything else you wrote i dont think is true at all. Killer have it relatively easy compared to the past, genrush is not nearly such a big deal as it used to be. Sure, a strong coordinated team will wipe the floor with your chill Michael Myers game from time to time, but faceing the reality, most games you are playing is no big deal. And if it is, dont worry, MMR will help you out.
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@tjt85 said:
My personal list of fun killers to play as or face would be totally different and wouldn't include any of those. So yeah, fun is very subjective.
But I would say some Killer powers encourage or excel at pretty unfun playstyles and for me that applies to quite a few on that list.
Some Killers can be both fun and terrible to face, depending on the add-ons they use. A spooky Myers that likes to sneak up on you is always fun. But a Myers that tiers up as quickly as possible to get their infinite tombstone add-ons into play is one of my least favourite Killers to face.
Would you be so kind and name the killers you find from that list unfun and why you feel that way?
@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558617#Comment_3558617
Correction: Artist and YOUR fun do not belong in the same sentence. You don’t have to like her, but don’t make it all about your tastes.
Thats the point of this thread. A killer who is only fun for 1 side, is not something the devs should strive. Artist is a prime example for that: Fun to play, absolutly no fun playing against.
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Had a 2 years break. Sometimes you just bore out of a game. Nothing unusual.
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@Xernoton said:
Billy is a stretch, honestly. He is fun to play when you are good with him but probably one of the worst killers to learn and this is further amplified by invisible walls, an abundance of clutter and odd loop shapes. He is fun to play against though.
Most people prefer mechanical skill over tactical gameplay it seems. There is nothing wrong with that but it is only natural, that they can't please everyone. Some people enjoy playing as and against Knight, others like Playing as and against Hillbilly more. It all depends on who you ask.
So, I wouldn't say that BHVR have a problem with designing unfun killers but more that they can't please everyone. As you said it's very subjective, if a killer is fun or unfun.
They cant please everyone for sure; but playing billy if you are decent can be extremly satisfying. And survivors love billy, thats why i think he is so good. Both are fine with him.
You cant say this with many killers. Most are either only fun for survivor or only fun for killer.