top500spiderman
top500spiderman
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@Jay_K said:
Been playing Vecna and day 1 was fine, no DCs but today its nothing but DC.
Survivor going down to fast = DC
Survivor can't get flashy save because of lightborn = DC
Survivor makes 1 mistake in chase = DCLike if you can't handle a loss please just take a break from the game for your own health.
Just finished a game and within 2 a half minutes all 4 survivors DCed. I had a single hook and lost 1 gen so it wasn't like it was a wash. Robin DCed first because they got caught with my power, then the cheryl got caught hiding near by for a flashy save and went down and that triggered 4 disconnects.
I know it will never stop and i know i can't do anything about it but just wanted to rant a bit as i just wanna play this game as a killer but sometimes its just impossible to play because of disconnects.I see alot of delusion here. I have a question for everyone, when you play killer, how many times have a survivor sat at the exit gates to teabag you after escaping weather it was 1, 2, 3 or a 4 man escape?
I seriously cannot remember a game iv had where a survivor got to the exit gates and didn't tea bag, and i ask because does that not better give an answer on why survivors DC? You dont think those same survivors tea bagging at the exit gates wont DC as soon as they feel like they are gonna lose?
How many times has a survivor taunted you at a window if you wiffed at them after a vault. Iv played thousands of games and all these things happen most of the time. The truth is survivors have fun out playing and sh*tting on the killer. They wanna embarrass the killer because its fun and hes literally trying to kill them. I like to do it to, out playing the power role feels good and survivors like rubbing it in the killers face because its fun. People say one thing but game after game says different. Its time we be honest and stop the bullsh*t
Its just this game, the dynamic of the game just promotes for the survivor to have some form of dislike for the killer naturally, hes literally trying to kill them and sacrifice them to the entity so in their head thats the "bad guy".
Now….how many times have you been in a game where a survivor DC'd in a game where you were behind on gens+hooks? How many have DC'd after looping you for 3 gens?
how many times have they DC'd when they went down as soon as the game started? How many times do they DC when there on there 2nd hook state and only 1 gen is done? or none?
If you ever slugged or tunneled. If the chases were long and gens got done did they DC? If you slugged and they were winning or still had a chance did they DC? Or did all of them DC after all of them were slugged?
the truth is survivors want to win. Simple as that they dont like losing to the person going out to kill and sacrifice them. Killers dont like losing either but because killers always have a chance to get at least 1 kill they dont DC most of the time.
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@maybesarahhh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049916#Comment_4049916
I think you've got the wrong idea of where I'm coming from here.
If a killer wanted to tunnel someone out the game for the sole purpose to ruin someone's game, what would making them stand there and watch the hook change?
It's less about forcing them to hook, and more about giving the death state survivor an option. If there is an anti-camp timer on both slugs and hooks, this gives the survivor another opportunity to get back on their feet play the game if they are being face camped. Yes, the killer is going to continue to tunnel them, I never claimed they wouldn't. But at least they can run around and do a loop and actually play the game, rather than just sit there waiting. Most survivors know they are going to die no matter what when a killer makes that decision, so this would just make the time leading up to said death a bit more enjoyable/fun. I'm not trying to break the balance game, just make it a bit more enjoyable for the people who currently are sentenced to the most boring 4 minutes of their life when they get slugged and face camped.
Why take away information when they leave the hook, when if they stay nothing changes? Unless your trying to say patrolling gens then going right back to the hook is OP
This would help for situations where the killer is proxy camping to avoid a self-unhook, but having to walk in circles around the radius of the anticamp detection so they can see all sides of the hooked survivor. It gives another survivor the opportunity to get a sneaky unhook in if someone else distracts the killer for a moment. It opens the door for a lot of strategic gameplay for survivors. You are correct that this will not help with face camping, though.
Let me ask you this: What is really the difference between the HUD changing 3 seconds after someone is unhooked, other than the fact that those two survivors are maybe 10m further away from the hook? This is a genuine question, because when I play killer I never return to the unhook unless they are the last two survivors so I don't use this information in the same way other people might. I want to know why this is concerning for a lot of you because I don't see how those few seconds of delay would affect much at all (based on my own experience and how I use the HUD).
you want to nerf tunneling so survivors can play better against it to win more because you think its OP. It would mean that this has nothing to do with a killer trying to be toxic purposely. You just wanna win.
Believe it or not, the reason I want tunneling nerfed (even if only slightly) is so when people are playing with their friends they don't have to sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the match to end because the other three survivors have 0 hooks and only one generator is done because people were trying to make a play to save them. Oftentimes killers will continue to target the same survivor, even when other survivors are in a more vulnerable map position or doing everything in their power to steal the chase.
Additionally, you get almost no bloodpoints when you are a survivor and you are in chase the whole game. Most of your bloodpoints come from objectives (doing gens and cleaning totems) and being altruistic (unhooking your teammates and healing them), neither of which you can do if you are being hard tunneled. So not only did you just get killed and have to sit around waiting for your friends to either escape or also die, but you also are on the bottom of the scoreboard. At the very least, if there were more points rewarded for chases, I think that would make people feel a little less butthurt about it.
I also don't really care about getting out of the gate when I play survivor, I play DBD to have fun and laugh over the silly moments that can happen sometimes (like getting jumpscared - sometimes even by another survivor lmao). Slugging specifically takes out a lot of the fun for me and many others because there's nothing you can do. At least if I'm being tunneled I can run around and still have fun while I'm alive.
Regarding your slugging suggestion, this is another change that seems masked to be for something done to be toxic when it kinda seems like you just want it for more hatch escapes or flash saves, because ummm correct me if I'm wrong but is camping a downed person in the middle of the game not throwing??
When survivors started getting banned for just doing gens and leaving instead of helping that slugged survivor (sometime in the summer last year), it made this less of a throw and encouraged some killers to use it more often. In a lot of situations, it might still be throwing, but in some it isn't. Slugging is especially problematic on small maps where people can't really spread out because it is too easy to slug 2 people who are near each other and cause a whole snowball. Like sure, this is a great strategy to get a win, but it's not really a healthy style of gameplay, as it causes other players to just have to sit around and wait for the game to end. That doesn't even really feel like playing a game at that point, it's just boring. I don't understand how that's fun for the killer either, they're just standing around too.
So no, this isn't about getting a beamer save (I don't ever run a flashlight) or hatch escape. It's about wanting to have fun when I'm logging on to a video game lol.
People typically only proxy camp a slug when their going against a team of flashies or the survivor is on a pallet, and also to find the last survivor. All of these situations are valid slugs. What are you trying to prevent here exactly?
This simply isn't true, I fear. Ever since the first failed PTB, I have seen more frequent slugging than I have ever experienced in my time playing this game. The second failed PTB only made this situation worse. It genuinely feels like by claiming they were doing things to prevent slugging and tunneling for the whole year then not doing it, BHVR indirectly encouraged a lot of killers to adopt this toxic playstyle.
In the situations mentioned with flashies or a pallet save, the anti-camp timer wouldn't go up anyways because another survivor would be nearby. So it's not like adding it would really change anything in that situation.
the first statement you highlighted and responded to was not a response at all you responded to it as if it was about slugs when i asked why add a HUD delay on unhooking when the killer can just watch the hook? If he wanted to tunnel to be toxic.
and if a killer is watching the hook I'm pretty sure a hud change of 3 seconds doesn't help with a sneaky unhook at all.
So the only benefit would be from them actually leaving the hook. This changes nothing about tunneling being used in a toxic way. Just being used in a effective way.
What is really the difference between the HUD changing 3 seconds after someone is unhooked, other than the fact that those two survivors are maybe 10m further away from the hook?I dont understand the question. There will be 0 difference with this change if the killer watches the hook. Why nerf something that does nothing to actual HARD tunneling?
Also trying to stop a basic fundamental strategy in a killer / survivor game just doesn't make any sense there are plenty ways to deal with something as ancient as tunneling in this game, plenty of perks and builds you can play with to try and avoid it all together, and if your playing with friends? Even better, SWFs have insane potential and coms are everything.
Secondly no killer is downing a survivor and camping him unless hes on a pallet, flash saves, trying to find the last survivor or there all close. These are all valid. If a killer downs someone and camps then he will lose lol. If theirs 3 people left and 2 of you get caught together AND downed simultaneously that is 100% fair play. Thats not toxic.
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@maybesarahhh said:
Here are a few simple suggestions for anti slug/tunnel that wouldnt break any current form of gameplay and shouldn't be able to be abused.
- Put a camp meter on slugs. Works the same way as the hook radius, if the killer slugs they can't just sit on top of the body, allowing for someone to actually be rescued. This prevents killers from hanging out next to someone they slugged to bleed them out when they have zero hooks. This could also be disabled in endgame, similar to hook timers.
- Remove the loud noise notification on unhook. This loud noise pretty much begs the killer to come back and tunnel the unhooked survivor.
- Add a small delay to the HUD on killer side for interactions like unhooking and healing from the downed state. This rewards survivors who are stealthy/able to get past the killer undetected to unhook/pick up a teammate when the killer is proxy camping. It would give them time (5 or 10 seconds would be plenty) to move away from the location before the killer sees they are gone on the HUD.
Most of us aren't asking for free pick ups or extreme changes, as we saw the way they could be abused in the PTBs. These are just some small QOL changes that would help prevent tunneling/slugging that I can't see a way could be misused.
I mean honestly these really are just diet versions of the changes in the PTB
Iv read your post and something confuses me, If a killer wanted to tunnel someone out the game for the sole purpose to ruin someone's game, what would making them stand there and watch the hook change?
Why take away information when they leave the hook, when if they stay nothing changes? Unless your trying to say patrolling gens then going right back to the hook is OP
And if that's the case you want to nerf tunneling so survivors can play better against it to win more because you think its OP. It would mean that this has nothing to do with a killer trying to be toxic purposely. You just wanna win. Tunneling isn't OP and theirs counterplay.
Regarding your slugging suggestion, this is another change that seems masked to be for something done to be toxic when it kinda seems like you just want it for more hatch escapes or flash saves, because ummm correct me if I'm wrong but is camping a downed person in the middle of the game not throwing??
People typically only proxy camp a slug when their going against a team of flashies or the survivor is on a pallet, and also to find the last survivor. All of these situations are valid slugs. What are you trying to prevent here exactly?
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exactly who is gonna waste 30/20 seconds to build a pallet?
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@revertbbqchilli said:
With how fast the gens are, the gen regression rate needs to be increased. Disagreeing is you admitting not playing both survivor and killer.
I do agree but at the same time I also feel like just the sheer little amount of time it can take to pop 1 gen needs to be addressed vs the regression itself.
I rarely ever kick gens because kicking them just gives the survivor distance and time its not worth the little amount of regression you get. Your better off chasing them off the gen and downing them, then kicking it if you can down them fast enough.
Most of the time SWFs will just call those gens out in the chase and they'll come and finish it.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048881#Comment_4048881
You didn't say anthing about anti-cheese in your original comment. You said nerf gen speeds and S-tier, neither of which will make huge changes for soloq. They get stomped by more than just 3 killers.
The way you're saying this makes it sound like you don't want these changes rolled out all at once. Nerf gen perks and gen speeds in some way? Fine. But the anti-tunnel and the S tier nerfs have to happen at the same time. Otherwise it's just soloqers getting thrashed at 5 gens instead of 3.
well obviously all the changes would have to happen at the same time, and i never said 3 killers.
I feel like it would help solo Q tremendously. Not needing bloated killers and annoying playstyles to go against the best would make the game a whole lot more fun imo.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048790#Comment_4048790
Please further explain how nerfing gen speeds helps soloq.
Some killers and strategies used by the killer still exist in this game because their needed for facing Experienced SWFs
How much a killer can get done before a generator pops is what determines what killer or strategy is the best. If we can somehow nerf how fast these experienced SWFs get gens done to where mostly high mmr SWFs feel that change.
We can enforce harder protections on slugging, tunneling, and wouldn't need killers who can move around the map like superman. That directly helps solo Qers. Does it not?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048302#Comment_4048302
Blight can down with his power, Ghoul can't. You just want Ghoul butchered.
E: Like here's the thing, you suggest 4.4 m/s which is already a flawed idea but then you were like "also let's nerf all these other aspects of his power" to the point where you can't seriously say you think that he'd be worthy of being 4.4 m/s. I get it, he can be annoying, but you're not actually arguing for a reasonable solution. You want him Skull Merchant'd.
what they really want to say
"i dont care, I dont run into a lot of good blights but i run into to many good ghouls so i want him nerfed i dont care if he can be countered hes annoying!"
People think the devs dont listen but its not that, there not about to nerf something because your annoyed with it. They move off data. Show data.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048790#Comment_4048790
these changes will and i qoute :
" ul still get tunneled, slugged and ul go against more S-teir killers."what changes? did you read anything i said?
I said that towards if they tried to bring Solo Q closer to Swfs
What would that achieve besides make killers choose the same 5-6 killers every game to compete with gen rushers more, and make killers tunnel and slug more?
Nerf gen multipliers, then nerf the top tier killers and harder penalties/protection on slugging and tunneling.
If 3 gens didn't pop 5 seconds in the match in higher games killers like blight wouldn't have to be in the game! Gen speeds at high play is ruining the game for everybody!
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Buffing survivors just for solo q is silly
Bringing the baseline closer to the top doesn't fix anything, ul still get tunneled, slugged and ul go against more S-teir killers.
Nerf gen speed multipliers to DIRECTLY nerf swfs, then adjust the current S-teir killers. Does that not help solo Q?
If solo Q is miserable and the devs seems to be balancing around swfs, then bring the top closer to the baseline.
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Now this is a good post
This is a step in the right direction, I really like how you emphasized how killers should be balanced around survivors capabilities iv been preaching this forever and I'm glad when I see people who feel the same way.
I just feel like before they do that, anti tunnel/second chance perks shouldn't be touched for real, because if they manage to cap gen speed appropriately the killer nerfs that could come from that change may make current DS fine universally.
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@Horse said:
Survivors want easy wins against trapper or hag. That's nature for you, I guess.
After they nerfed ghoul again, are you going to beg for blight nerfs?
I doubt the devs will nerf ghoul any real meaningful way, its funny you try to help people you give them proof ghoul can be counterd you give them plenty of data on it. What do they do? They ignore it and just keep complaining because they feel like anybody they find annoying to play against needs to be nerfed.
I hope the devs keep ignoring them.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048356#Comment_4048356
Your own quote "This is definitely a skill issue and I'm pretty sure you just find him extremely annoying to go against, I do to but that's not a good reason to nerf him."
if your feigning you didn't say that your just trolling at this point
That was a response to you saying he was OP then you tried to twist my words by trying to imply that i said him applying his deep wound was a skill issue on your part.
Your not very good at rage baiting
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048323#Comment_4048323
So leaping across the map with his power, stopping on a dime behind a survivor., and then downing them doesnt count as using his power because he still uses the basic attack button? I suppose we need to buff spirit then by that logic.
Both sides have easy to use perks. Down a survivor and half the gens explode. Hook a survivor and all the gens block. Kick a gen or load into the map to bypass any game sense in locating survivors. I can keep going...
www.youtube.com/shorts/2-kyUGhVnTs?feature=share
This video shows clear counters to everything you just said about ghoul, ghoul has cooldowns after his power like legion. The way you counter him is very similar.
About ghoul cutting people off in loops, This is not easy to do at all and isn't realistic its extremely hard to do on most loops, so much so ghoul mains literally clip it and make montages of them doing it. I would love to see you doing it consistently in a game.
This is another video showing hard easy counters to ghoul to his power
Here's another video showing you what ghoul has to do in most loops, hes literally just a m1 killer.
Another video proving and showing you ghoul can be shut down.
Iv provided data proving ghoul can be effectively countered. Can you disprove any of this data that iv presented to you?
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048266#Comment_4048266
It's not a skill issue it's bad killer design you don't give a killer an auto aim injure ability and then say it's a skill issue to survivors for getting hit. There is plenty of data and feedback however of ghoul being the easiest Stier killer to play as however and why he's the most hated killer in the game currently.
For actual insight visit the multiple posts and threads on why ghoul is miserable to play against
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/462379/so-still-no-ghoul-changes-huh
Clipping a thread about more complaining and no actual Data isn't gonna get the job done, and I never said it was a skill issue that you were getting hit by his deep wound. Its a skill issue that you think the killer himself is OP. If your saying hes OP because his deep wound is so easy to hit that makes no sense because legions deep wound is extremely easy to hit aswell and hes considered weak.
And I also linked a video showing you how ghoul can be countered by exploiting his weaknesses that I noted above and I backed it with actual data not by my words. You ignored the video and proceeded to complain, so its literally no point in continuing atp this is venting, I know hes annoying to face but calling to make him worse because of it doesn't make any sense.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047890#Comment_4047890
If your a ghoul and your response for Survivors is skill issue the whole room should laugh you outta there cause Ghoul requires no skill to play.
Least legion has to aim his strikes while ghoul just has to look a general direction to auto aim the survivor injured.
At least legion has to aim compared to ghoul? I hope werent serious when you made that comment. Hitting legions deep wound is just as easy and pressing play to get into a game.
Can you show any data that shows survivors aren't capable to realistically get to the next loop against ghoul? Cause at this point its pretty clear you dont play the character and just are a survivor main because that's not true.
This is definitely a skill issue and I'm pretty sure you just find him extremely annoying to go against, I do to but that's not a good reason to nerf him.
Playing windows, and corners, staying out of ghouls line of site looping well, cripples the hell out of the ghoul. Watch this, this video will show you how to counter/play against ghouls a lot better
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The thing is, when it comes to feedback in the community its hard for it to be heard because most of the community complains about things with no data to prove thats its a problem.
Its easy to say nerf this killer, buff this killer but what makes a killer S-teir is how well they perform against fast gen progression. The faster gens get done the faster killers must get a down. Imo this isnt healthy for the game and just promotes toxic unfun games all around
It promotes tunneling, it promotes slugging and it promotes people to keep playing the same killers just to compete against gen rushers. gens repair potential should be adjusted through perks and addons so SWFs cant abuse it, because that's why blight and nurse are S-teir they have a chance against it while other killers just dont.
If we lower the potential of gens getting done. We can force more protection on tunneling, slugging and nerf these high teir killers because it wont be needed. Killers wont feel anxiety from winning a few games and feeling like they now have to play only S-teir because gens are flying. It would just be more fun for everybody.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047913#Comment_4047913
This is why I don't mind getting demolished by a good Billy for example, as compared to getting stomped on by a ghoul because they just leap on top of you, cancels their power, and you gain absolutely zero distance, because the recovery time on the cancel is non-existent, since you can do it while airborne.
Billy takes probably hundreds of hours to be properly good with, while ghoul is like "ooh me press M2, me on top of youuuu."
I guess that is the closest analogy I could muster.
Billy is a skill matchup, in how good are you at curving around corners without bumping into things, versus how good the survivor is to dodge you.
Ghoul is just power-spam into guaranteed hits.So yes, Billy feels fair, becuase he takes considerable skill to master, but ghoul is way too simple realtive to his power level.
You should not be trying to gain distance on a ghoul this is holding W one of the things i just told you would get you destroyed by ghoul.
Ghouls power is no where near as a effective like blight or nurse in loops. If you cant loop a ghoul when hes m1ing thats just a get good situation. You shouldn't be calling for nerfs just because you cant hold W and pre-drop pallets and vault windows around the map until 4 gens pop.
Ghoul isnt skilless just because you cant hold W, legions first hit is skilless aswell but your not complaining because his mobility isnt as good. lol be real.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047783#Comment_4047783
Oh brother here we go again Ghoul is literally the Easiest S-Tier due to how he was designed he's extremely low effort high reward easily able to injure due to auto aim grab attack. Not to mention his power lets him catch up any distance the survivor made with extremely short cooldowns to immediately follow up with a m1 attack. Finally his problematic Scamper that's very fast and also hinders survivors by 50%.
If he was a lot more technical and had to put more effort into him kinda like Singularity then people wouldn't have him so much of a problem but currently he's braindead easy and very strong.
This is a skill issue, ghoul is nothing more then a legion with a leap. After your injured just like legion, he turns into a m1 killer. Theres only 2 ways you could think such a thing is OP.
- if you struggle looping killers
- If holding W is your main tactic towards every killer
because if you do any of those things against ghoul he will destroy you. Ghoul has plenty counterplay and pretty blatant weaknesses which is why he hasn't been nerfed. Annoyance doesn't = nerf
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047609#Comment_4047609
Maybe now with Vecna being the new fun time we can nerf ghoul finally
See this is what i dont understand, why are we nerfing a killer that isn't even S-teir, that has real effective counterplay to him, but we nerf him because hes annoying to play against? Why are we not doing something about the amount of potential SWFs have in higher MMR that killers are forced to be in the more they win?
You guys want to nerf the only killers that can at least have a chance against SWFs? We shouldn't be nerfing any killers right now until we do something about 3 gens popping at the first hook.
If we bring down the potential gens have to be popped by pure experience and coordination in SWFs we can begin to nerf killers with crazy mobility to compensate for solo Q players.
The problem is solo Q players wont do gens as fast as SWFs most of the time. So lets nerf gen speed in a appropriate way whether through perks or whatever and then nerf those killers with crazy mobility because it wont be needed.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046836#Comment_4046836
"but survivors suck". Doesnt mean anything.
Because it means nothing since they always sucked for 9 years, so by that logic never had a survivor meta.
Or they sucked but still had very obvious survivor metas.
you also cant just go back n fourth between "they only sucked at this and that time" because that makes no sense either.
Ergo, this sentence and arguement holds no substance.
Killers players suck too. Does this mean anything?, not really. They still got kaneki, nurse and blight that take barely any pratice to go on winstreaks on, maybe not long winstreaks but enough to get consistent wins.
Even if you wanna say the killrate is flawed or whatever, you cant argue that you have zero reason to not believe the party stats (how many people actually play in 4 mans)
Saying its been the strong role since 2016 makes no sense. Especially since we had nothing going for us since 2023 when mft and buckle died off.
And in history, killers also had strong metas in that timezone, like pentimento plaything, thrill of the hunt, pallet density being tilted in their favour for a month, kaneki blight and nurse barely getting any nerfs besides slaps on wrists.
You can say its swf sided all you want, but by design its never survivor sided overall, because disproving that it never was aimed to have a 60% killrate is impossible and you rarely get a competent swf squad by the stats shown before to even justify it when you get a swf 1/10 times.
Even playing blight or nurse with these current gen speeds against a SWF is still uphauling and once you win a few games all you go against is SWFs damn near because of mmr.
The speed they pop gens should not be possible it just shouldn't. You start a chase, get the down fairly quickly but 3 gens still pop? wth? on the first hook?! lmaooo
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bro you cant be real 😭 there is no way your sitting here telling me gens arent moving to fast against SWFs right now. They literally melt them atp killers might as well just help them repair the gens. Guess il be playing survivor until they do something cause that sh** is insane
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Bro even tunneling just isnt realistic anymore with how fast gens are right now. Like these gens are flyinggg bro FLYINGGG against these gen rushing SWFs. Ul just lose 4 gens trying to tunnel 1 person out the game. Unless the skill gap is insanely big. Its unbelievable how fast gens get done now like this sh** is genuinely crazy