sulaiman
sulaiman
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- sulaiman
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Yes, that might be true. When i lose 2 gens before i get the first hook, i feel like i am losing too. However, often enough i still get a 4k with one or no gen left. But the pressure is there.
But i doubt if the first gen was slower it would help that much. Because killers can resort to tunneling and camping at anytime they feel they lose and turn the match around.
Another thing i would like in this game is access to your own statistics. I kept statistics of my matches for a time, and facts then outweight feelings, because while i was thinking i was bad at playing killer (because whenever you get a swf group it becomes really hard), the stats showed me that my kill rate was actually quite high, and i started to play more relaxed. Maybe that would help others, too.
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I like the idea, basicly because i proposed the same idea about 3 years ago.
I had some slight adjustments, however:
The first hook on each survivor lowers the gen speed by 20%, the second one only by 10%, but if a survivor dies, all remaining survivors get actually a speed buff, to compensate the lost manpower.
By that, it would be far better for the killer to hook every survivor once, then a second time, and then start killing them, which greatly helps against camping and tunneling. (it might incentivise slugging, however, but there are perks for that).
The overall gen speed and of course the speed lose percentages would have to be adjusted for a good level, but i think this idea is still valid.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427446#Comment_3427446
Getting an early kill in the game is huge as a 3v1 is way easier to manage compared to a 4v1. In a 4v1 there will always be at least one survivor free to progress gens. In a 3v1 with fast downs and quick hooks, you can force the survivor team into a situation where they don't have time to work on gens.
You aren't suddenly more skilled for opting to make the harder on yourself by keeping the 4v1 alive. Just like you aren't less skilled for recognizing the best tactic to win and utilizing it.
It would be akin to saying survivors are bad if they complete gens, because if they were truly skilled they wouldn't need to work on gens.
Thats a very bad comparision. Survivors cannot win without finishing gens, but killers can very much win without hooking survivors thrice in a row.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427160#Comment_3427160
It would be really nice if survivor players had to play a minimum number of hours as killer before being allowed to post complaints about camping and tunneling.
And killers have to play solo survivors. I am all for that, actually.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417690#Comment_3417690
What dignity?
I can handicap myself for Survivor fun all I want; I'll never be thanked. I don't get to win. And I get insulted.
I can handicap myself for Killer fun when I play with my friends: Same thing.
What do I get out of it? To think "Oh! I may have only got 2 hooks, and insulted, and told to uninstall; But at least the people telling me this had fun!"
I've been playing off and on since launch, and I have never, NEVER, had someone say "You know what? You could have camped me. You saw my teammate waiting to unhook me, and you walked away. Thanks." Or "Thanks for not tunneling the Meg." Or "Thanks for letting me sacrifice you after the gates were opened, so I could get some more BP."
Heck, I stopped giving hatch after I had three different people on the same day say "EZ. Noob Killer. Uninstall." When I carried them to the hatch and dropped them on top of it.
Yet they had this thought that, somehow, they beat me. I'm still wondering if they thought their previously-unknown psychic powers made me let them escape. 🤦♂️
I've also had people insult me for NOT giving them hatch. You know "Be happy with a 3K" and "Stop sweating for a 4K." They literally thought giving the hatch was expected, not a gift for me to give out at my choice.
So again; Why, when I'm playing either side, should I care about anyone's fun over my own?
I care about everyone's fun insofar as:
- I don't DC
- I don't insult people.
- I don't sandbag.
- I don't cheat/Use bugs.
I make sure everyone can play the game as intended; Without greifing, cheating, or being a massive jerk. But when it comes to trying to win; I will try my hardest, and don't expect any less from anyone else.
Well, i tell killers thanks for a fair match often enough, if they didnt camp or tunnel, no matter the outcome. And i had some good conversations.
There is not that much you can do to give a killer a good time, other than being respectfull, and i did start giving killers hooks at the end if they were clearly outmatched, or my teammates were rude. To me, its the equivalent of giving hatch.
But i have to agree, i seldom experienced that as killer. The experience that i have is that the more aggressive you play, the less annoying survivors are in the end or after the match. (although that doesnt mean i camp or tunnel)
Sometimes i think this game should have a requirement that you play both sides, maybe that would remind people that the opposing side is just your fellow gamer.
MAybe its just me, because i play a lot of card games, tabletops and pen&paper rpgs, because yeah, you are kind of responsible for the fun of the others, because otherwise there is noone left to play with.
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So, with an overall kill rate over 60% you still have a problem with 4 survivors escaping once in a while, do i get that right?
Because the kill rates are facts we know about. How high should the average kill rate be, in your opinion? And what outcome of an even match would you propose?
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@Marc_go_solo said:
The midchapter was a great success, mechanically-speaking. The "Tools of Torment" chapter was the failure, which many have stated the same.
Some people are seemingly talking about tunnelling and camping as if this is a new thing. It's been around since this game started. The most effective, easy-mode for killers is tunnel one out and finish the rest. It's always been that way.
As for the game dying, this is a meme. It's an ongoing meme which means absolutely nothing. DBD has no big competitors and even if one were to emerge tomorrow it would have a lot of work to do to cause that.
While tunneling and camping have been around, they really rose after the patch. And thats what was new, that next to every killer was doing it.
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Are you aware that nightfall meant to be hard to see in? That it is meant to let you bump into stuff, so its better to avoid a chase during nightfall?
Also, the maps are dark so survivors can better hide. killers should be able to lose a survivor in a chase, because they got into a dark spot and are overlooked, or can hide in a dark corner if the killer doesnt know they are there. If all the maps were bright, that would not really work.
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And what has that to do with holding the game hostage? Right, nothing at all.
Also, survivors are not removed from the match for 4 minutes because the killer chose. The killer has to find you, down you, and then other survivors have to be dead or not care about picking you up.
That is far away from "the killer being removed form the match for 4 minutes whenever the survivors decide.
So, since this are totally different things, why do you assume i would be fine with it?
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Would be a great QOL update for survivors
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10% more running speed for survivors.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425306#Comment_3425306
I tunnel when I'm in trouble. 1 gen left still 4 survivors alive. Or if I can't keep up with the speed of the gens. Not cuz it's easy mode. A lot of killers camp or tunnel to try and make a comeback from a bad start.
Even more killers camp and tunnel right of the first hook in the match. While it might be true for you, it certainly is not for the majority of killers.
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The thing is the killers camped and tunneled before as well. Maybe you were just lucky with matchmaking, for a lot of others it was the norm and with prenerf slowdows, the match was pretty much lost once the first survivor was out, with no way to punish that behaviour.
Now survivors at least have a fighting chance again. Yes, camping and tunneling got up (i had it really every single match after the patch), but like always, it is already slowly gobing back to the "normal" levels.
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@Thila said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424083#Comment_3424083
I agree, and it doesn't matter if he was toxic or not. The problem is that he did something that goes against the rules. It's not about slugging, but about being stuck in the game. I opened a ticket on the company's website with his SteamID and all the photos. I hope he is punished, and they finally take some action about this and some of the game's problems. There are several new games in the scene that copy DBD and have already solved various problems that DBD hasn't resolved in six years, such as slugging and camping. You get up after 45 seconds on the ground, and if you camp too close, it doesn't count towards the death time.
only its not. bleeding out, you die after 4 minutes, even if he picks you up then, you can wiggle free, and you die when he downs you again. Thats not holding the game captive, no matter how much you didnt like it.
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Now you cant play the game until a new rift comes out. Too bad.
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no, tippy, you got that right, i just hid in the locker and waited. they might have triggered me earlier, but they only did it in the end, and yes, thats exactly the point that i understand.
(although, most people dont like it when i play dredge for real either ^^)
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
I feel like a lot of killers in this game kinda take things too personal
I got a flashlight save so the killer proceeds to tunnel me and then face camp me out of the game
but luckily the 3 other survivors got out so...I don't know what I did to make them upset like that lol
and no this wasn't the a one time thing this actually happens a few games I get
Well, Tunneling is a good strategie for killers, so maybe you should not take it so personal if it happens to you.
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@brysoles said:
I’ll be honest: If I start the match with heartbeat (happens every ~5 matches) and I get downed within seconds ingame I don’t wanna play. I don’t even try when the killer directly chases me 2 seconds after spawning. I can’t remember spawning literally next to the killer was a thing in the past. Last week I had a match where I saw the huntress in the camera animation at start. Nah thanks.
Thats some years back, but i once spawned with the red stain of the killer directly on my back. A spirit, too, AND he could move before i could. Yes, it happended back then.
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You argue from the m1-killer-perspective, and you are right. However, what about other killers? Would the maps still be balanced for them?
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I love Indoor maps, both as killer and Survivor. The Game, Midwich, Lerys, RCPD...
Why? As survivor, i like the stealth approach, and in a lot of maps that is heavily nerfed, lots of open spaces, even if you come across a los-blocker, there is nowhere to go. Indoor maps always have walls, faults and stuff to hide behind. I miss Hawkins, btw.
As killer, i like them too, because while there are colorblind filters in the game, and they made auras better, indoor maps are still the maps i am most comfortable with, because i can actually see auras and scrach marks.
I think both sides have a lot to work with on indoor maps, but for some reason a lot of people seem to mislike them.
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@saintjimmy456 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420699#Comment_3420699
When they add a new killer, new survivor, new map, then they need to adjust every existing element of the game to keep things balanced. Not to mention trying to keep two sides of a player base happy that constantly complain that the other side has it easier. Must be hard work, but I imagine they are generally happy.
Is that so? Solo survivors complain about killers who complain about swf. SWF seldom complain, because they hold all the aces.
So which two sides complain about the other side?
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I think its basicly the opposite of teabagging, a show of respect for your fellow gamer on the other team. In this game, its rare enough, and some killers just return that respect.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420861#Comment_3420861
"If you sweat by camping and tunnelling you're supposed to get games like this"
Or maybe gen speed and perks like this are why you're seeing an increase in camping and tunnelling?
Also MMR doesn't exist
Ne, that is already debunked. There was a patch that still had good gen regression, and increased gen times. By your logic, tunneling and camping should have gone down. instead, they had risen, because killers had more time doing it.
Camping and tunneling simply is the easiest way to a 4k for a killer, and thats why they do it. At that point, gen rushing just wasn´t enough anymore, and i guess thats why gen regression was nerfed.
But please realize that every reason for killers camping and tunneling other than "they want to win the game by any means" is just wrong, as we have seen in the past.
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Hmm, as killer, i dont see much difference, most matches are still easy 3k+. But i didnt use regression perks before and play mostly dredge, which has high mobility, unless map rgn decide to throw the match for me.
As solo survivor, it got worse again. The first few days i had a killer that camped and tunneled every single match. Now its just most of the games again.
But thats the advantage of playing both sides, i mostly play killer since then, and survivor only for rift challenges.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
BNP does need looked at.
Gen regression being turned back on would be healthier for the game overall. It would make killers less reliant on being more aggressive with kills and more willing to engage with gens. I do hope it becomes more of a thing again
Why? That was stated before, when gen regression was still a thing, and gen times went up by 10 seconds. But the killers didnt use that time to engage with gens, they used that time to tunnel and camp even easier. So why should that be different?
The question is, at what result do you aim? For example, lets say a 2kill 2 escape match was balanced. By balanced i mean, this outcome would be most likly without tunneling and camping. Would killers aim for that? Or would they still aim for a 4k, and if they cant get it without tunneling, still turn to those tactics, even if be balanced result could be achived without it?
IF they would still aim for the 4k, that means the Gen regression would have to be strong enough that killers get the 4k without that tactic. But why should any survivor want to play that game?
Thats the problem with asymetrical games, they have different win conditions and ways to get there.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419057#Comment_3419057
1) "you get hooked and see that one or more survivors are afk"
- And what? Just because of that you will screw it up for the others? Being AFK for a moment doesn´t meant that he is doing it intentionaly. Mabye he has something IRL and had to go. Thats still not a reason to being a coward what kill himself on hook.
2) "you get hooked and see one or more survivors teabagging each other in the basement or just walking in circles"
- Poor excuse. Its very rare situation and I can´t even remember when I saw that situation last time.
3) "you have survivors that refuse to heal you, and when the killer comes, they bodyblock you so the killer has an easy target"
- Again. Very rare situation. And if that happens. Report him and move on. I rather get as many points as I can then sandbagg other teammates what are trying to do their best. Just because of one sandbagger I will not be sandbagger as well. And even then... many times there is reason for their behivor like this. So isn´t it because you did something to them?
4) "healthy survivors that try to get rid of the killer by presenting you as an easier target while you heal"
- Remeber. This should be a team based game, but still you have main premise of that. You´re being thrown to the arena with other random people with killer and your actions decide about the match. If you loose or if you live to die another day. Its part of the game. And being a coward and give it a shot is just bad behavior.
5) "survivors that alarm the killer to your location, for example because they wanted to clean that hex totem, even though you run inner strength."
- As much as its part of the game its not something what should be considered as a reason to suicide on hook. And how about to being smart and go away and do objectives elsewhere?
Well, it doesnt matter how rare some cases are, as i just told my experience for when i did it in the past. It happened.
for 1) if the match is 3 minutes in and they are still afk, then the game is lost anyway. it might be they have a good reason, but it wont save the match, so i can exit as soon as i can to get a decent one.
4+5) as you said, its a team based game. And if others don´t want to play in a team, again, i go out and try to find another one, where they do.
3) na, i play in europe, and a lot of russians play like that. you are not a teammate, you are someone to be sacrificed if they need to be, so you are basicly another health state to them.
The thing you have to understand, even if you remove hook suicide, people will just go afk, because you cant people force to play. But that might extend to another host of reasons as well.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419078#Comment_3419078
No but they should improve server netcode so that those with high ping don't have such an advantage, and have a maximum ping level where if it's exceeded for too long the match is just ended because people exploiting vpns for a purposeful advantage shouldn't be able to happen 💖
oh i agree with you, but it was just to show how that idea of yours does not work in all cases.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3418623#Comment_3418623
id argue gamebreaking should also include things which are easily exploitable, or just things that are explotable in general
So they should killswitch the network connection, which is easily exploitable? I dont think thats a good idea.
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Sorry, not worth to get into again.
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Actually, killers dont need an addon for free hookstate. A lot of them camp, and that can give up to two hookstates for free.
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@robrob909 said:
I really wish I could have fun playing killer. But every survivor seems to really suck at playing the game that they have to resort to brand new parts, gen rushing, body blocking, tea bagging, flaslighting, sabo, pre dropped pallets. Behavior needs to do something about the state of the game and the toxic way survivors play.
When you are having troubles with almost every aspect of the game instead of just some rather dull ones, it might be on you.
Teabagging has nothing to do with sucking at the game, it is pure disrespect and meant as an insult, but devs decided to ignore such things.
Also yeah, lots of survivors also suck at the game, but they usually dont escape, even though they use brand new parts, or predrop pallets. However, if you are having troubles with almost every aspect of the game instead of just some rather dull ones, it might be on you.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417724#Comment_3417724
Why do you need to watch the devs play to settle your arguments? Twitch is filled with survivor players playing solo who are escaping most of their games. Watch any of them and you can learn how to play.
Yes, but surviving is not winning. Or do you think, survivors as a team should not be able to win?
Surviving alone is pretty easy, get a key, a hatch offering and dont get caught. But thats not a sign of a balanced game.
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The doctor loves distressing, as his ability is tied to his terror radius, and with that, he also loves startstruck, which also is.
several of this perks are good on doctor, taking them away would make him far worse.
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@Beatricks said:
It's genuinely pretty hard to tell. I don't have the link at hand, but either Hens or someone else did an experiment where very capable content creators were asked to tell who had a subtle speed boost during the match and it was absolutely not obvious.
You don't really see hackers flying across the map anymore, most cheaters just give themselves constant bloodlust 1-2 or haste effects, plus the occasional survivor that runs you to the edge of the map and then just magically disappear behind a rock (aura reading perks are really handy for that).
I'd say about 20-30% of high MMR matches have a subtle cheater, but again, I don't keep count and it's not quite as obvious as it might seem at first glance.
Yes you do, i had 2 survivors in one match that not only healed themself up time and again, they also flew out of range of the killer, teleported and stuff. The killer was pretty angry, and came at me when he saw me, but once he realized i was not one of the hackers, he just left me alone.
Sadly, i cant record videos at the moment, so i didnt even report those 2, since it has no consequenses anyway.
The next match, i had a killer using some kind of wallhack, because i lay on the ground, and he would follow the movement of survivors behind walls with his eyes (i could see, because i always run bond, i saw them, and the red stain were always shining in their direction, even they they constantly changed position). And no, he didint have aura perks. They were not injured, so not much to hear either.
But usually, you dont get (obvious) hackers that often. Most accusations come from people which no clue of whats going on, on both sides.
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I kill the afk survivor as soon as i can. I play both sides, and i dont want these guys in my survivor matches, so put them back in mmr hell.
For the rest, it depends on them. I usually hook everybody twice, and then start to slug. if i get them all, and they tried to do gens and didnt teabagg, i let them all go.
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Seperate swf and solo queue and balance them both differently, so both have an average kill rate of about 55-60%.
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Only the bright red light also gives an advantage to the killer with no disability. The terror radius does not. At least, for me, that is. I tried it out, and since i hear the terror radius clear anyway, the visual clue gives no help to me, and i guess many other healthy survivors.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417668#Comment_3417668
My point is, anytime killers ask for accessibility features for, i dunno maybe DEAF people WHO CANNOT HEAR ANYTHING? Or for dealing with motion sickness. The answer is: "Well, no, for balance reasons" so i guess deaf people can just go away and not play killer, and people who get motion sickness should have to use a perk forever.
And yet here is this thread discussing an accessibility change that was made for survivors that is an obvious buff to them but everyone seems to think: "its fine because accessibility is important"
Which i agree with, but why can't killer get some of these things too?
you gave the answer yourself, and you chose to ignore it. Nothing more to say.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417552#Comment_3417552
And yet I'm not wrong, seeing as you did not address anything I said, just blathered about 'reaching' like a troll. 🤷♂️
Please explain how the visual terror radius helps someone with no hearing problems.
Because i can explain how a higher fov helps killers that have no motion sickness.
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At this point, i think just give killers an pov slider and increase survivor running speed by 5% to compensate for the advantage and be done with it.
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@leviivel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416831#Comment_3416831
But Lithe is much better usually unless it’s a stealth killer because effective teams can get better use of Lithe as opposed to SB because the 99-ing may indirectly cause to less gens being done.
now if we’re only talking about high level play then I suppose SB is also an issue. But usually it isn’t as most people use SB right as chase starts and then you can just not commit. (Although I do still think perks should be judged with higher skill levels unless the perk is a meme).
The thing is, though: if you use sprint burst and the killer doesnt commit, you lost nothing but an exhaustion you regain while working on a gen. If he commits, you will get a second speedboost the moment the killer hits you, extending the chase further.
with lithe, you have to reach the vault before the killer. Often, you will still get hit, and while you get your speed boost, you also lost your hit-speedboost and even if the killer doesnt commit further, you have to go heal somewhere.
And with overcome, you get to keep your hit bonus, but you will always get hit to use it, needing time to heal.
And thus, its a little strange, because in all those scenarios, sb has the best outcome.
It also has an easier prequisit than lithe, because while you can always decide to just walk, you cannot always choose to be near a vault.
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i had the issue on locker on those bridges-things (not a native speaker, and i dont know the english word for it) as well.
After seeing your video, yes its the same issue.
I run Darkness revealed/BBQ/Undying/HEx:DevourHope, and some survivor pudding
Ottoman Writing and the Doll addon.
Full Masquerade Colors.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3414586#Comment_3414586
BHVR wants 60% kill rate
And should that factor in killers camping and tunneling? Because then its unbalanced, against solo camping and tunneling has a way higher kill rate i would suspect. So one could argue, the balance is off in favor for the killers.
But i think devs balance around killers as a whole, and the ones that dont camp and tunnel in conjunktion with swf drag the kill rate down enough.
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@ryokoryu said:
Survivor: Killer you should worry more about my fun, don't play in a way that I don't like
Killer: are you going to stop flashlight saving, pallet saving, gen rushing, hook sabotaging, body blocking and hitting every safe pallet in every chase?
Survivor: Why would I do that
Killer: same answer
Survivor: but that's not fair
Seriously guys this is a 4v1 game, the 1 has to play unfair or they lose. their job is not to lose, it's to make you lose. If a killer is not oppressive they are badly designed. instead of pressuring the devs to make the game feel unoppressive to you why don't you play a game where that isn't the theme of the game. If unfair tactics bother you then don't use them on others. if a killer can't tunnel you can't save or body block. that killer earned that down and that hook. Most players in the NFL earn a superbowl victory but only one team gets it. BTW most of the unfair tactics are handily countered by decent SWF teams or are required to beat decent SWF teams so if you hate being in bad teams try to build a good one and practice.
So, just out of interest, how much kills should a killer get on average if the game was balanced?
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Funny. In my solo matches, its the killers that behave different, because they camp or tunnel every single match. I literally didnt have a single match without camping or tunneling since the patch. As a result, i mostly play killer since the update, with one or two matches as survivor in the evening maybe (just to see its still going on).
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@Reinami said:
If this and supaalf are a problem, then you feel this game should be balanced around the top level players. So then why is this possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
So either:
1) This game should be balanced around top players, and we should nerf blight because of what you pointed out, AND ALSO, we should heavily nerf survivors because of the team i linked just now.
2) This game should be balanced around average level players, and blight is fine and also nurse needs a buff because she is by far the killer with the lowest kill rate in the game.
So which is it? If this blight is a problem, so are these survivors.
So tell me, is the average survivor swf or solo? From the last stats, they are solo, and if you balance around the average solo survivor, yes, you still have to nerf blight, as well as several other killers.
The thing you showed is not the power of high ranking survivors, its the power of swf, and we all know its a problem for the game.
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@Meathammer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409092#Comment_3409092
Nope. My internet is fine. Since thr latest update I have been rubberbanding constantly.
I used to have that issue, but havnt for months, and it didnt change after the update. And i havnt heard of it as a widespread phenomenon this time.
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Even if dredge is shirtless, its always shrouded in darkness...but still, looks really nice
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408537#Comment_3408537
yknow theres this thing called fun
That doesnt answer the question in the slightest. However, you are not new to the community, how many people do you thing agree with your view on fun? Usually, if you ask 50 people, you get 60 different views on what balance and fun should look like.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Powers that allow you to instadown / quckly damage two health states should be nerfed when near a hooked Survivor (~16 meters within so it covers basement as well). Also grabbing healthy Survivors should go as well. It just promotes stand offs. There is nothing more helpless and boring and easy then picking a bubba for example, standing next to someone and prevent anyone having a solid chance to save the hooked Survivor. Againts Solo Q survivors it is even more powerfull and offten leads to at least 2 killls just by sitting next to someone.
It's even worse than tunneling because at the very least, when you are being tunneling, you can play the game and you are in chase (better than sitting or watching hopeless situation). Maybe powers could be disabled next to hooked Survivors after a few seconds of killer not leaving or something.
The problem with that is, actually survivors.
When i play killer, i seldom camp. However, a lot of survivors you get in a chase after a hook choose to run to the hook instead of somewhere else. Should the killer have to drop a chase because the survivors can use the hook as a save spot for this power? Do you think that really is balanced?