sonata93
sonata93
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The only time Bubba is really strong is when he camps, and even then it relies on survivors making mistakes and being overly altruistic.
If you don't play Bubba this way and play him 'normally', so to speak, any map with a decent number of windows/pallets really harms his chainsaw power. Plus. many good survivors know how to run loops really tightly so it's very difficult to hit them with the chainsaw. Also, his addons are very mediocre.
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Kindred and Lithe. Whilst my other two perk choices often change, I've consistently kept these two on my survivor build since I started playing. Kindred is a remarkably powerful perk (the best survivor perk in the game, in my opinion).
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I guess it's subjective. Say someone's prestige 10, that indicates they've played enough hours in the game to accumulate the millions of BP's required to prestige a character to this level. The hours required to play that many games/accumulate so many BP's would suggest at least a semi-decent understanding of the game and how it works (looping, perks, countering killers, etc.).
However, we all know from experience this isn't always true. For example, I've been matched with a P20 player before now who avoided any contact with the killer, did no hook saves, and brought Sole Survivor & Left Behind to get the hatch/get a one-man escape. Three of us still managed to escape that game, but despite myself and the two others all being on death hook, they refused to take any hook stages. To me, this indicates low-skill because if it was getting to mid-late game and someone was on death hook and I had either one or no hooks, I would sacrifice a hook stage in order to maximize potential for a four-man escape.
In contrast, we've all played with survivors with little-to-no prestige level and wearing a default skin who have taken us by surprise at how good they are. Seeing a default, prestige 1 Dwight loop, flashlight save, and body block is very humbling and just shows that a fancy skin from the DBD store and high prestige level doesn't always mean skill.
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The issue is that this game has far too many variables to ever truly 'balance' it. If we're talking about solo-queue, four complete strangers enter a lobby together which means straight away there are 16 different perks in use, and because MMR is very unreliable/flawed, these four people can be of completely different skill levels with varying degrees of game sense/knowledge. Then you have the killer: there are 28 different killers in the game with unique abilities who all vary in difficulty and skill, then, of course, we once again have the player-specific skill levels and which four perks they've chosen out of the hundreds of perk choices.
There's then a whole other array of variables: maps, player behavior, items/addons, etc.
The game isn't perfect by any means, but I feel BHVR try their best to improve gameplay for both sides. The other issue, however, is that everyone has a strong opinion on matters in the game. Look at this last year: killers were very vocal about their dislike for Dead Hard so it received a nerf in the 6.1.0 update, and killers also received numerous base kit buffs as well as improvements to some perks. Many survivors have now started saying they feel the recent update was heavily killer-favored and made many aspects of the game worse for them (solo-queue, versing Legion, etc.) Now, there's this upcoming PTB which has caused uproar amongst killer mains for the 'base kit Unbreakable'. You see the issue? No matter what happens, both sides always have strong opinions about it.
Equally, all it takes is for a survivor to play solo-queue and get some really sweaty killers to decide the game is killer-sided. Whilst a killer just needs to verse a couple of SWF's with Hyperfocus and toolboxes to say it's survivor sided. Both sides have significant issues and what they feel are inequalities in game-health. This game will never universally be considered 'balanced' as someone, somewhere, will still have an issue with certain perks/killers/maps/items/addons, etc.
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208621#Comment_3208621
yeah but then they head to the forums and cry about tunneling and camping, feels like 80% of the survivors playerbase think teabaging is no issiue but then they're mad when they get tunneled in the return. And it not like its happening now and then, i have teabagers every single game. Sometimes i start chill and trying out killers im less experienced with but then some douche comes and BM me like #########. I just find it extremely cowardly to abuse the saftey that anonymity gives those people, its disgusting in my book. in real live people cant act like that, so im not used to it. Its super cringe having some strangers treat you like dogsht because they want to "taunt" you in a videogame.
I agree with what you're saying and fully respect your feelings towards BM'ing in the game.
There are some super annoying/obnoxious survivors who love to teabag/BM but are the first to shout "tunneler" or "camper, get good" in the end-game chat. However, not all survivors are toxic, and many, many of them will play respectfully and won't go out of their way to disrespect killers (and other survivors! Remember, it's also other survivors who are also on the receiving end of it, not just killers).
Equally, if we start policing teabagging, what other aspects of gameplay need addressing? Killers nodding? Camping/tunelling? Hitting on hook? Farming other survivors? Leaving people to die on hook? The list is quite literally endless, so this is why I don't understand why teabagging is singled out as this ultimate insult.
As with my conversation with the other forum member, this is why I think people need to lower their expectations of other people's behavior in this game. I don't condone BM'ing in this game whatsoever, and of course, in an ideal world everyone would play nicely and fair and according to the killer/survivor rulebooks. However, it's just not realistic when you consider that 10's of 1000's of people can be online at once: it can't be controlled/monitored in any reasonable or logical way. If you enter every game expecting respect and 'fairness' from other players, you will always be disappointed with the game. It's a sad but true fact of life. This is why genuine offenses (abuse in end-game chat, etc.) are taken seriously and are reportable; whereas BM'ing in the game is just seen as petty and isn't reportable. It can't be controlled.
Honestly, people think DBD is the most toxic game ever but have some of you ever seen what goes on in Fortnight, COD, League of Legends, etc. 😂
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208280#Comment_3208280
yall always preach dont take it to personal but you never say HOW to not take it personal. you might be not snapping as fast as others, actually envy you.
I won't lie, I used to take it personally when I first started playing the game. I remember getting my ass kicked by a SWF in one of my first games as killer and they all teabagged at the exit gate and I felt so frustrated and defeated.
Things changed when I had one really rough day as killer with multiple defeats and teabaggers - I shortly thereafter got a phone call with some sad news and I simply thought: perspective. I thought, am I really going to allow some anonymous person in a video game emote me so much, when the reality is, it's just that - a game. I took a break from DBD after that and when I came back I returned with lower expectations of 'winning' as well as understanding you can't police or control the behavior of people when they're playing fictional characters in a video game.
When it comes to in-game behavior (this excludes end-game chat as an intention to offend is clear) you can't ever take it personally. Remember, this game is essentially annonymous, so when a killer tunnels you or a survivor teabags you - it's not because they have some vendetta against you as a person, it's simply the competitive nature that comes out in this game. In an ideal world, everyone would play 'fairly' and consider others 100% of the time, but that's just not a reality in the gaming community.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208280#Comment_3208280
One of the definitions of obnoxious is "highly offensive." I haven't changed my rhetoric at all, you've misunderstood it.
Your argument pretty much boils down to "people say awful things in end-game chat, therefore it's acceptable for them to be obnoxious in the match." I'm not suggesting that you should be personally responsible for ending in-game toxic behavior, but I am suggesting that defending it with "what are you gonna do" puts you on the side of the problem: being an enabler, then blaming those the behavior is directed at for feeling upset by it, dismissing it as "just an animation."
The bigoted messages you describe in post-game chat are just pixels; by your logic you don't need to be upset by them either.
People using slurs/offensive language in the EGC is a clear attempt at inflicting harm and hurt on another person. In my case, the language used at me was loaded with dated and highly-offensive terminology. So no... the 'just pixels' argument is completely invalid because the intent was clear because of their choice of language (which is universally considered offensive and bigoted).
Teabagging at the exit gate because all four survivors escaped is not comparable to the above situation, nor the ones that are (sadly) happening regularly within gaming communities.
You're trying to put teabagging on this pedestal of being super offensive when the reality is it's only 'offensive' when the killer loses. And even then, I cannot in good faith use the word 'offensive' in relation to an animated person crouching up and down. So no, you trying to say to compare me saying 'its just an animation' in relation to other social mechanisms ('it's just a word', etc) is completely flawed. You didn't even answer my original question: what offense is caused by teabagging, exactly? Being annoyed that you 'lost' a game is not an offense.
Retrospectively, it's pretty silly that I'm having to justify the difference between experiencing bigotry/homophobia in the end-game chat to 'teabagging'. We will agree to disagree on this one, I've justified my stance, as have you.
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People used to exaggerate how powerful old DH was; people used to say escape rates were so high because of this perk, and they'd often blame a 4-man escape on DH. It was only ever really that powerful in like the top 10% survivor MMR who really knew how to loop effectively and win chases. With mid-tier survivors it was a 50/50, and new survivors didn't know how to use it and would often DH out in the open and get downed seconds later.
It just felt like a perfect excuse to justify a loss in a match. 'Press E to win' was such hyperbole.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207748#Comment_3207748
It still amazes me how much prose people will write as a paraphrase of "I support people being jackasses."
"Worse stuff exists" is a poor argument, you can apply that to anything at all to justify it.
You've changed the rhetoric of your original argument, though. 🤔
You stated that I was wrong to suggest it's the killer's responsibility to not be 'offended' by an 'action intended to cause offense'; doing something offensive and 'being a jackass' are two, very different things. The aforementioned is something that breaks social etiquette and intentionally inflicts emotional harm on another - being a 'jackass' is generally someone who's just a bit annoying/obnoxious (which is exactly what I was saying in regards to teabaggers).
I agree! 'Worse stuff exists' is whataboutism and is often a thinly-veiled attempt at justifying questionable behavior - in the real world. However, I would argue that within the context of a video game, then yes: worse stuff exists. If you choose to get offended by an animation in a game based on some abstract notion that they're antagonising you - that's on you. You can easily take a deep breath, say they're being a 'jackass', and choose to not let it sour your gaming experience or take personal offense at something so insignificant.
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Yeah, rage-quitting over Devour happens quite a lot. 😂
I once had a Tombstone Myers DC as we were all jumping in lockers and denying him his mori's. The final gen popped and he still hadn't mori'd any of us and he just quit. lol
On the other side, the one time I understood a DC was a Huntress on Coldwind. They were obviously quite a new player and by the time she got her first down, three gens had popped and her Lullaby Hex was cleaned and replaced with a Boon. I was working on a gen close to the hook and as soon she approached me I used Sprint Burst to get away. As soon as she saw the SB after all the other stuff, she was just like NOPE and rage quit. I did feel quite sorry for them, it was a pretty rough game. 😂
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I always hated this perk. I get that people like to do challenges with it or 'meme' with it, but nothing more annoying than loading into solo-queue with a No Mither player who doesn't know how to loop. You're actively putting yourself at a disadvantage and an easy target for the killer - why would you do that if you can't last 10 seconds in a chase? Plus, most killers know not to slug an NM player so its one benefit was pretty redundant anyway.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207639#Comment_3207639
It's really cringe to put the onus on the killer not to get offended by a gesture that is widely understood as something intended to cause offense.
"It's just an animation."
"It's just text."
"It's just vibrations in the air."
You can be reductive all you want, but all of these things are mechanisms of communication. Your attempt to dismiss the communicated message by trying to reduce it to the mechanism is ignorant, either intentionally or unintentionally.
Yes but we're not talking about any kind of communication mechanism here which has any sensitive social/cultural/moral implications, are we?
The difference is that with written and spoken communication intent is clear. People who write horrible/offensive messages in the end-game chat are morally bankrupt - the same as someone who verbally says something offensive.
The difference here is that 'teabagging' is used in the game in many different ways. Sure, some survivors do it to be petty and tease the killer, but people also do it to be friendly, to say 'thank you' if they're given the hatch, to get their attention for a chase, or to just be silly and not take a video game so seriously.
When you say it's a gesture 'that is widely understood as something intended to cause offense' - what offense is that, exactly? As I said, maybe it's a way of teasing or being a little cheeky towards the killer if they 'lose', but isn't that the very nature of these types of games? You'd be hard pushed to find an example of any online, multiplayer game where this doesn't happen. Bad manners, competitive banter... call it what you want.
As an example, I proudly wear the LGBTQ+ flag charm in all my games and have experienced on numerous occasions people write vile comments in the EGC about it. The intent to cause offense here is pretty black and white - inarguable, in fact. That's why there are report features and policies in place to (rightfully) investigate actual issues of offensive behavior within the game and ban the people accordingly. For starters, 'teabagging' isn't reportable, and if it was, what grounds would it be on? "The survivor annoyed me because they beat me and teabagged me to let me know they beat me"... "The survivor crouched up and down a few times when they dropped a pallet and it offended me"? It's a game, it's not the real world. Should we start saying tunneling is offensive? face camping? These things (along with teabagging) may be considered 'bad manners' or whatever, but calling it an 'offense' is massively overstating it.
I stand by what I said. I personally don't teabag, but it's such a frivolous/petty little thing and there are actual people in the game (through EGC, streams, etc) saying and doing offensive things - should our energy be put into deterring that, instead? In your own words, 'isn't it really cringe' to put so much meaning and so much weight in such a meaningless thing?
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Lmao "your strong perks are unfair but I'm allowed to use as many meta perks as I want". 😂
NWO isn't even that strong. The best thing to do when you realize a killer has it is to play super safe/stealthy until it's over. If survivors become too altruistic and run at the killer, they're pretty much giving them free hooks/kills.
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Some survivors teabag because they feel the killer has played in a sweaty/toxic way and see it as a way of getting back at them; others teabag because they want to try and berate the killer and be toxic.
Likewise, some killers slug/tunnel/camp because from a game sense it's the best strategy at that point in the game; others do it to be sweaty and toxic (letting survivors bleed out, face camping and hitting on hook, etc.).
I will say, though: I think people make way too much of a big deal out of teabagging. Sure, it's a little petty/toxic but at the end of the day, it's just animation in a game. From a gameplay perspective, it doesn't inconvenience the killer or put the survivors at a competitive advantage in any shape or form. If it gets to the killer, that's more down to them allowing it to get to them. If it winds you up, just remember - it's a game, it's no big deal.
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Averages don't take into consideration the wider player base, though.
Have you ever gone against a 4-man SWF who brings sabo/gen-rushing builds, petrified oaks, and a Game offering? It's a miserable experience and 99% of the time it ends in all four of them teabagging at the exit gate. In contrast, play solo-queue and due to whatever the current MMR system is you get paired with people who don't understand the game. You get left on hook to second stage (or left to die in some cases), no gens get done, people self-care in the corner of the map, etc. Just because some abstract statistic says there's not a huge gap between SWF/solo-queue, it doesn't mean it's not there.
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I'm in two minds about it:
On one hand, slugging for 4ks is insanely boring and frustrating to go against, especially when it's the usual suspects (Nurse & Blight) running the same old slugging builds. I had a game yesterday against a Nurse on Midwhich who brought Haunted Grounds and Starstruck. Despite only one gen being done and already having two hooks, when HG activated she went on a slugging fest and got us all downed/hooked. The game was over and all survivors got less than 10k bloodpoints, and the Nurse only got like 13 or 14k I think. When all's said and done, what does this playstyle achieve? Other than making people de-pip, create short and boring games, and annoy other players? This is an issue and they needed to address it.
However, the new update will really hurt M1 killers or killers who have no choice but to slug in order to get any map pressure (Twins, Trapper, The Shape, etc.).
I hate the mori change though. No one asked for this and I don't know what it's going to achieve, exactly?
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@Ayodam said:
I believe the official statement by the devs is that it’s not a skilled play if you don’t escape.
This is honestly one of the most bizarre things they've ever said. Let's say you're a survivor who manages to loop the killer for a substantial amount of time and the gens all pop; when you finally get caught, you get facecamped and die on hook. Is that really less skilled than a Nea that Urban Evades around the map for the whole match and manages to escape either through the hatch, or because the team took all the heat and she hides until the exit gates are opened? Same with killers, is it really more skilled to get a 2k through face camping than getting 12 hooks but all 4 survivors escaping?
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I don't think it's a case of 'this side deserves base kit perks more than the other', it's a case of addressing issues within the game. Regardless of what anyone says to argue the matter, base-kit BT was long overdue and really helped balance the matter of tunelling. It's still bad, but at least the endurance/haste from the hook gives the survivor enough time to make it to a window/pallet (most of the time). Pre-patch, killers could down a survivor straight off a hook and put them back on it (granted they didn't have DS) - this made for really cheap, unfair 'wins' on the killer part.
I do agree that gens are going fast though, but I don't know how they can change this without major gameplay changes. They can't really increase the length of them because people already complain that gens are boring and non-immersive. And whilst base-kit Corrupt seems great on paper, didn't a Dev say that when they tested it it didn't really change much?
In all honesty, 'base-kits' are just bandaid fixes for glaring problems with game design. For example, base-kit BT wouldn't have been needed if tunelling/camping wasn't so easily and incentivized within the game. Likewise, base-kit corrupt wouldn't be needed if some maps weren't so large and convoluted with terrible gen spawns.
I'd prefer them to focus on maps rather than making constant base-kit buffs, tbh. Maps are still a massive issue in the game and no matter what updates/perks are released, it doesn't change that.
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I'd say Trickster and Doctor. I'd say these are the two original killers which, according to their lore, take great pleasure in their role as killers as well as their horrible activities before they entered the realm. Killers like Artist, Wraith, Twins, Huntress etc were really victims of their circumstances and the entity prayed on their vulnerability and pain.
As already stated, Dredge, Demo, etc are more animalistic and morality isn't exactly something which determines their actions. But I suppose a case could be made for Dredge as it's very much an entity which feeds off evil/pain.
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Yeah, it's rubbish now. I DS'd a Wesker the other day and he was able to pretty much down me within seconds again. It's basically the same as a pallet stun but without the distance made by the killer breaking the pallet. I think it should be buffed to 4 seconds - admittedly, the original 5-second stun was maybe a little too harsh, but 3 seconds is nothing, really.
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Yeah, unfortunately. Say you're playing Twins on Mother's Dwelling and you down someone as Victor on the opposite side of the map, they're most likely to be able to get themselves up before you're able to hook them (especially if Unbreakable/Exponential are in play).
It's a shame because their aesthetic and lore are one of my favorites in the whole game. They deserve some much-needed love and a BIG buff.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204190#Comment_3204190
Okay I'll now list all strong/meta survivor perks. All exhaustion perks. Thats at least 6 if you wanna ignore the lesser ones. Reassurance, lucky break, coh, you could argue street wise now, prove, hyperfocus, adrenaline, unbreakable, ontop of that they have medkits and toolboxes, ontop of that you're 4x more likely to be sent to a map that favours them massively.
Which to be contrarian I'd argue the vast majority of the perks you listed are good but not nearly as strong. Bbq is just aura reading which you can replace with game sense, same with lethal, blood warden only works well with terminus and even then it's just bad nwo. Devour is a massive gamble and can easily give you no value. Starstruck is practically just a nurse perk.
Meanwhile the perks I mentioned cut gens down, punish the killer for making good plays, extend chases, or cut healing down.
I'd like to point out nearly every good survivor perk just makes them massively efficient with little to no downside. Meanwhile killer is 90% slowdown and 10% conditional slowdown
Exhaustion perks exist because killers are designed to win chases as a) they're faster than survivors b) bloodlust c) they can use powers to end chases quicker. Is it therefore not only fair that survivors receive some strong exhaustion perks to help them counter the aforementioned points? Also, killers have tons of chase/anti-loop perks (Crowd Control, Blood Favour, Bamboozle, Superior Anatomy, etc) and that doesn't even take into consideration individual killers powers and their abilities to quickly close distance (Blight, Nurse, Wesker), and/or shut down loops (Artist, Dredge, Clown, etc). Taking this into consideration, is it really that unfair that survivors have a few perks which give them speed-boosts for chases!?
Again, I'd argue that many of the survivor perks you listed are conditional or situational. Reassurance exists to punish camping whilst Unbreakable punishes slugging. You can consider these tactics 'good plays', but why's it so unfair that survivors have perks which counter these playstyles? Killers have plenty of perks that counter specific survivior play-styles i.e. anti-loop, gen slow down, anti-healing builds, etc. Hyperfocus relies on you consistently being able to hit great skill checks, and Adrenaline is conditional on you making it to the end game. There's a clear counter to COH (snuff the totem which takes like 2 seconds), and regarding BBQ: sure, it's 'just an aura reading perk' but it still remains very popular (still one of the most used killer perks) despite them removing the BP incentive - there's got to be a reason for that, right?
You say that survivors have perks that 'cut gens down' and 'cut healing down', but again, killers have perks that consistently block/regress gens, and make healing slow/inefficient. Not to mention there's countless perks/addons/killer powers which permit insta-downs, which makes healing useless anyway. Equally, there are killers who consistently keep survivors injured anyway and punish them for healing (Plague & Legion).
I understand what you're saying, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204179#Comment_3204179
If you think thana is good you haven't played the game in a few weeks I take it
Okay, remove Thana from my list and replace it with Eruption.
My point still stands.
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She's okay, I guess! For me, it really depends on the type of player and what addons they're running - which I guess goes for all killers in the game, really.
My two least favorite things about Huntress are:
- Iri Head: especially when they can't aim properly so they just wind their hatchet and tail you until they know they're close enough to guarantee the hit.
- Camping Huntress's who just camp the hook area and throw hatchets at anyone who goes in for the save.
I have mad respect though for Huntress's who don't use the above tactics and are able to make really crazy, cross-map snipes.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204155#Comment_3204155
Thats because survivors have had meta perks for years. For instance why would anyone ever take off an exhaustion perk besides to handicap themselves. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a few survivor perks that aren't at least a benefit. Meanwhile killer has 6 good perks maybe?
Only 6?
Sorry to be a contrarian, but off the top of my head: BBQ, Tinkerer, Pain Res, Deadlock, DMS, Lethal Pursuer, Discordance, Corrupt, No Way Out/Blood Warden, Call of Brine, Starstruck, Thana, Devour, Pentimento, etc etc. These are all strong and/or meta perks, and there are more I missed out.
Then, if you want to talk survivor perks that range from mediocre to outright useless: Corrective Action, This Is Not Happening, Poised, Premonition, Technician, Slippery Meat, Dark Theory, Empathetic Connection, Inner Focus, Self-Preservation, etc.
I would argue there's a pretty fair balance of meta, good, mediocre, and bad perks amongst killers and survivors.
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I agree that the latest chapter contained two strong survivor perks (Reassurance and Hyperfocus), but you have to look at the bigger picture. In the last few chapters alone, killers have received multiple meta/strong perks like Lethal Pursuer, Plaything, Pain Res, Call Of Brine, Merciless Storm). I mean, look at the last few survivors and their perks: Haddie, Yoichi, and Jonah... none of them had anything remotely meta or particularly strong (maybe Overcome but it's probably the least popular exhaustion perk and I suppose I case could be made for Residual Manifest). In fact, I'd argue that prior to the latest chapter, the last real 'meta'/really strong perk that survivors got was COH with Michaela.
Also, items counting as 'fifth perks' is no different to killers having addons, no? Is a survivor with a medkit/flashlight really that problematic when addons like Tombstone, Alchemist's Ring, Iri Head, Pinky Finger, and Mother-Daughter Ring exist?
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Expanding on my previous post, this will inevitably suck for killers who have limited time for their powers - particularly Myers. How can a Myers who isn't running Fragrant Tuft of Hair addon supposed to get any pressure when he's in T3? That's why he excels at; getting multiple downs whilst he's at his most powerful/oppressive (same as Oni). How can he get any map pressure if by the time he's hooked one of two downed survivors, the other could've already picked themselves up? Equally, M1 killers with pretty poor mobility who are power reliant (Trapper, Twins) will suffer greatly.
I stand by what I said: this is great in theory, but not so great in execution. It would be far healthier if it was limited to certain criteria, like 2 or more survivors slugged at the same time. Or alternatively, change it to a 60-second threshold - this would give killers sufficient opportunity to hook 1 or more, downed survivors, without running the risk of losing any map pressure. Unbreakable could be changed to a 50% speed increase so it takes 30 seconds to get back up, and is limited to once per trial.
However, it is important to remember that it's a public test build. We only have to look at previous PTB's (remember the stackable endurance meta in the 6.1.0 PTB?) to see that these things often get heavily nerfed. I'm very doubtful that the current proposed update will ever make it in to the game; the feedback so far has been overwhelmingly negative, possibly moreso than 6.1.0 back in July.
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Swamp and Red Forest.
I think RF looks nice visually but is horrible to play on as killer. Swamp is the opposite, it's design isn't too bad (other than some of those broken main buildings), but visually it's such a horrible realm: very boring, monotonous, and lacks any character.
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BM'ing, regardless of 'side', is just a frivolous annoyance - nothing more. Sure, it sucks to get your ass kicked by a 4-man SWF and watch them taunt you at the exit gate, but it's just a game and really not that big of a deal.
I think we need to differentiate between general BM'ing (teabagging, flashlight clicking, nodding, etc.) and actual 'sweatiness' which really dampens the experience for the other player(s). A survivor who teabags a killer after pallet stunning them is not, in any shape or form, comparable to a killer who face-camps someone and denies them any further gameplay or BP's. One is just a petty gesture to try and berate the killer, whilst the other actually effects gameplay and denies the player of a fun or engaging experience.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202054#Comment_3202054
Why not? 2 Metaperks Basekit for survivors, 0 for killers. Balanced, right?
Next will be 3sec DS Basekit, regular DS will grant extra seconds for the stun.
I totally believe the devs are that kind of "I dont know nothing about my own game Jon Snow"-Thing.
Tbf, BT was never 'meta' in the sense that it gave survivors an overwhelming competitive advantage; survivors ran it because face-camping and tunneling people off-hook was so rampant (and still is to a certain degree). Surely we can all agree that being downed straight off a hook and being put straight back on the said hook was never fun or productive gameplay?
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Twins, Billy, Hag, Pig, Clown, and Freddy.
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I honestly don't think it'll go live as a permanent feature in the game. The feedback is overwhelmingly negative and there will be a mass exodus of killers if they actually implement it. I think it should only activate if all 4 survivors are 'down' (whether that's all 4 on the ground or, for example, 2 on hooks and 2 on the ground). This will really make weaker killers in the game (Trapper, Twins) literally unplayable, and will only make more people turn to the already universally disliked survivor killers: Nurse & Blight.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202933#Comment_3202933
Survivors got basekit BT and good perks like OTR in 6.1.0 and yet survivors whined and threw a tantrum about the 10% killer action speed buff and reworked DH.
Meanwhile, killers pointing out that making one of the strongest meta perks basekit and buffing it to unlimited uses might cause problems are "crying like babies."
I'll take some of whatever you're smoking, it seems like pretty strong stuff.
You're also forgetting killers also got: buffed gen speeds, stackable meta gen regression/slow-down perks, buffed bloodlust, and all the previous survivor meta ("second chance") perks got major nerfs and became useless in the end-game. "10% action speed buff and reworked DH" are major understatements of the buffs killers got in the July update. The 'tantrum' came from the fact that tunneling/camping - the two most despised strategies - got major buffs and became easier and more rewarding than ever in 6.1.0.
I do agree, however, that the basekit Unbreakable is ridiculously strong. We need to remember, though, this will be a PTB and BHVR will make significant changes before they even consider taking it live. Look at OTR, COH, etc - all these overpowered game updates got major nerfs after the feedback from their respective PTB's.
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I bet old DH doesn't seem so bad now. 🤣
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I agree, I think we need to see it in action before making conclusions about how much it'll affect the game. Objectively, it will only affect killers who slug a lot; this isn't a bad thing as so many killers resort to slugging as they're desperate for a 4k - even killers which don't need to slug in order to win (Nurse, Blight, etc.). However, my major concern is that it'll make killers who rely on slugging to a certain extent in order to get hooks really unviable. For example, look at The Twins: if you down someone as Victor on the other end of the map, you then have to get Charlotte there as quickly as possible - this will become almost impossible if Unbreakable becomes meta again.
The positive is that slugging and being left to bleed out on the floor for 4 minutes (how fun!) will no longer be a thing. No more sweaty Nurses slugging a full time at 5 gens (yay). The negative is that it's going to really be the final nail in the coffin for multiple killers and may incentivize camping even more! Or other forms of nasty plays like camping downed survivors and hitting them straight back down as soon as they're back up.
I think a healthier option would've been to make it base kit if there are 2 or more survivors slugged.
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Something for solo queue, please. I think a base kit Kindred (minus the killer aura reading part) would be a good start, as well as that 'hub' they discussed a while back where basic survivor actions (repairing, healing, rescuing, etc.) are shown beneath each player.
Also, kill switch Nurse until she's fixed and fix Blight's addons while they're at it.
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You answered your own question there: once killers realize you have OTR, they'll hit you straight off the hook seeing as it doesn't stack with basekit BT. This essentially makes the perk redundant as once you've taken that endurance hit, its secondary effects are pretty superficial and not helpful if you're being tunneled. Also, it's nowhere near as powerful as pre-nerf DS but having said that, I do see it quite regularly. Usually at least once perk match in solo-queue.
The new survivor meta is mostly gen perks (Hyperfocus & PT), healing builds (We'll Make It, COH, Botany, etc.), and an exhaustion perk (usually Lithe or SB but I'm seeing more DH these days). Second chance perks are just a shadow of what they once were.
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Nurse. I tried Nurse once when I first started playing DBD and I found her to be so unpleasant to play. Her cooldown animation and noise get super annoying, and considering she relies on her power so much, you spend half your match in that cooldown. It's not like other killers who can still be fun in M1 whilst you wait for their power to recharge, it's just a constant loop of: blink, blink, hit, cooldown. Blink, blink, cooldown. Blink, blink, hit, cooldown. I don't get the hype, personally. I know she's super powerful, but I find her annoying and unimmersive.
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With the wording ('exciting new feature'), I'm inclined to think it's about the reworked moris. 'Feature' seems like a massive downplay of any major gameplay changes such as the introduction of bots or changes to solo-queue UI. I'd argue that the updated mori is going to be more of a feature rather than a major change, considering it doesn't greatly affect gameplay - it's more of an aesthetic thing.
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I fully sympathize with everything you're saying, but I think both sides feel this way.
This game is currently stuck in a really vicious cycle. All it takes is for a killer to verse a really toxic SWF with toolboxes, spare parts, and map offerings to get frustrated and then take it out on other survivors. Conversely, all a survivor needs to do is play solo-queue and verse a really sweaty Nurse that slugs for them to feel disillusioned and take it out on the next killer. The issue is that whilst this isn't supposed to be a competitive game, most of the player base treats it as a competitive game. You only have to look at perk choices - despite the big 'meta shift' back in July, killers are still running gen regression/slow down meta, and survivors still favor second chance perks - this is because running these perks help them 'win'. I experience this a lot when playing solo-queue, I love to run fun, gimmicky builds but 9/10 times it gets me killed because the perks aren't powerful enough to verse the current killer meta, so I end up reverting back to the same old boring perks. Same with playing killer, you try and run some fun and underused perks, but you just get gen-rushed and teabagged at the exit gate. Both sides have glaring issues which I think stem down mostly to MMR.
Sorry to see you go, anyway! Hopefully there will be some positive changes in the game which will make you want to return.
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I wouldn't say killers in general need a base kit buff, but certain killers need major buffs/reworks to make them more viable and increase the variety of killers being played (Sadako, Trapper, Freddy, etc.). It does get tiring versing so many Nurses, Blights, Weskers, and Legions when there's such an eclectic mix of killers in the game.
The only other thing I'd say is that Corrupt base kit could still be considered. Whilst the July update definitely made an improvement towards gen-rushing, if survivors are efficient and coordinated it's still not unusual to have two gens pop by the time you get your first hook. However, I think this is more to do with a bigger issue in the game: map design. There'd be no need to base kit Corrupt if busted maps like Temple of Purgation, Mothers Dwelling, The Game, and Eyrie weren't so large with such broadly spaced gen spawns. If all four survivors crowd on a gen straight away, I've had a gen pop before I've even found someone on these maps. 😂
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It's funny, I had a really rough match as Dredge on The Game before and nearly made the exact same post. It was under those exact conditions: a SWF where 2/4 of them brought Game offerings, and the other two brought Petrified Oaks.
I absolutely, 100% agree with everything you said regarding this map. There are absolutely no dead zones; say what you wish about the likes of Garden of Joy and Haddonfield, but at least there are dead/unsafe zones and unsafe pallets to counteract the god pallets/buildings/loops. Getting downs feels so much more drawn-out than other maps because, as you said, survivors don't even need to effectively join loops - all they need to do is run a few meters and surprise, surprise - another pallet. It's not like the pallets are weak, most of them are safe and there's a disproportionate amount of god pallets compared to other maps. The worst part are those corner walls that spawn two pallets on either side: it always spawns by the bathroom/basement zone, but I've also known the double pallets to spawn in other areas, too.
Like you said OP, it's not even about sweating for 4ks or 'winning', the Game is just unfun, unbalanced, and survivors know this map can be abused as it's so difficult to play as killer - hence why SWF's seem to bring offerings to this map, and other terrible maps like Red Forest and Eyrie. The Game is by far the worst though, it's like it was designed to help all four survivors escape.
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I know this wasn't meant to be a solo-queue vs. SWF discussion, but I think that unfortunately it always boils down to that.
It's problematic for the game health/balance to be based on general statistics that group solo-queue and SWF together as 'survivors', without considering each of them are entirely different game experience's. If we exclude the tiny percentage of tournament-level SWF's, even casual SWF's have numerous competitive advantages: communication, coordination, and the fact they can all plan their perks/items before the match. In contrast, as a solo-queue player, you're going into a match completely blind with absolutely no idea about your teammates and their skill level, perks, etc. We can't underestimate the huge impact this can have on the outcome of the game, and equally, can make the difference between survivors getting escapes or killers getting kills. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but it's almost as if solo-queue and SWF need to be different game 'modes', as in there are changes to the game conditions.
This then skews MMR: I've been playing for 3 years and feel I'm a pretty decent/experienced survivor, however, if I have a few rough games and my MMR goes down, I then get stuck in this loop of getting matched with newbies and not being able to escape. This links into the OP's original point: in order to make meaningful and informative conclusions, we'd need to see the breakdown of escapes/kills based on MMR, and also, separate solo-queue/SWF.
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The reporting system in an absolute shambles and BHVR doesn't seem to do a great deal to tackle cheaters/hackers.
I made a report last year about a hacking SWF I went against as killer. I had photographic evidence of them cheating (hooking themselves in random places, accessing inaccessible parts of the map, etc.) and filled out the report system with every detail I could give. I heard nothing for weeks so I decided to email to ask them for an update; I just got some abstract response about taking hacking very seriously and they were looking into it. I emailed a further two times and never got any more correspondence on the matter.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195225#Comment_3195225
I'm so glad that Artist died D1 because seeing her any more than once a mo th would make me go insane 🤠✨
Oh, I couldn't agree more. 😂 Hearing her TR or those birds at the start of the match makes me want to DC (I don't, of course as I don't condone DC'ing).
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I think it's largely because:
a) RE is an already popular IP so people will always check out big licenses like it.
b) it's the latest chapter, so by default, people are more inclined to try newer things to keep their gaming experience fresh.
I much prefer Nemesis as I personally find Wesker super annoying and unsuited to DBD. That's just my opinion, though; I know a lot of people love having him in the game.
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Yeah, I find the hatch standoff so frustrating no matter whether I play killer or survivor.
I played as Dredge before on Midwhich and managed to get 2 kills with 2 gens still remaining. I'm not exaggerating when I say it took over 10 minutes to find one of the two final survivors, as they had both obviously been stealthing around the map waiting for the other to die. When I finally hooked one they were second hook stage and despite me moving far from the hook, the other one didn't save them. I fell really lucky and the hatch spawned right near me, so I closed it straight away and managed to get the other one really easily due to the gate spawns on Midwhich. I checked their perks at the end screen and they were running the 'selfish survivor' build with No One Left Behind and Sole Survivor. I know people like to play the game differently, but people need to understand you get far more points for at least trying to complete gens and escape. I like the hatch mechanic in the sense that it gives the final survivor a chance at escaping, but at that stage, it's still a resounding win for the killer so I don't know why people put so much effort into trying to get hatch. I'd rather get more points for doing gens/saving knowing I'm probably not going to escape, than hide around the map in order to get some tiny "win".
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It's pretty mediocre, however, as someone else said, when used with No Way Out it has the potential to really snowball and end game. I was once getting my ass-kicked when playing Dredge and I used Terminus (along with Dredge's addon which triggers Nightfall in the end-game) and managed to turn a 4-man escape into a 2k as they were all too hesitant to be altruistic as they couldn't heal. Outside of that, I've never had any major value out of it that I can think of. Still a decent perk and worth prestiging Wesker to get the teachable, it's just very situational.
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I think it's because experienced survivors know how busted 'god pallets' can be so they like to reserve them for later in the game when there's more pressure. It is a little frustrating when you see someone waste a really good pallet when they get hit anyway or don't even loop it, but I'd never be rude to someone about it. No one's 100% perfect at the game, and when it's a baby survivor we were all like that once.
The exception is the Game: throw every pallet you see on that map because they're basically infinite and there are at least 4 god pallets on the forsaken map lol.
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@Veinslay said:
Maybe he doesn't like Steve. Also you didn't show the video from the beginning, you could have been teabagging and emoting that boy before the video starts
You're playing devil's advocate there. Even if the user did BM before the start of the video (I doubt they were), we all know this kinda stuff happens to perfectly nice survivors who are just playing the game. I've seen a Bubba do this to a baby Meg who did absolutely nothing wrong and didn't know how to loop or anything.
Putting ownership on the Steve is unfair, when they have video evidence of this killer being completely and utterly toxic and playing in an unfair and unfun manner. And for anyone that says "but the killer's having fun": how can staring at a hooked survivor in a video game and pressing a button for an attack animation be fun? If they are, then no disrespect but they need some fresh air.