sonata93
sonata93
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@DY86 said:
Every once in a while posts like this are made and every time I say the same thing:
- U should not be forced to be in a match u dont wanna be
- Now more than ever there are ways to take the game hostage (i.e. Skull Merchant 3 genin at 5 gens) and you should have a way out
- and most importantly in a 1v2 scenario you should be able to ######### on hook to give the other player a chance to find the hatch right away.
- The devs themselves already said they are not gonna force someone be in a match so u should just drop it
Whilst I agree with what you’re saying, the “players should not be forced to play in a match they don’t want to be in” argument is flawed. Survivors have an easy way out without getting any sort of DC penalty, but killers have no such equivalent.
Say a baby killer is getting bullied by a SWF and not having any fun, they just have to ride the match out. But if you’re a survivor getting facecamped or have useless teammates you can be out of a match within a minute. I don’t think their should be one rule for one side and a different for the other.,
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@Xendritch said:
She's very beatable you just need to take a tape early and you're fine, it will take time for people to adjust but she's not A tier or anything it's just a killer that punishes you focusing only on gens and ignoring her power.
Exactly, we’ll said.
if players are just holding her tapes and trying to plug gens whilst letting the condemned passively stack, it’s kind of their own fault if they get mori’d lol.
she’s very much like Pig with the traps: it doesn’t pose an immediate threat but if you leave it too long it can be game-changing.
when I’ve played as/against sadako, I’d say 99% of survivors getting mori’d are because they get too greedy. If you actually take the minute to get off gens to copy your tape, you’ll be fine.
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I play Sadako a lot and I do agree: since the buff I get the mori probably 2/5 games (certainly not every match).
In defense, there’s a clear way to counter her power and whenever I’ve gotten a mori, it’s usually a survivor being greedy and trying to push/gens and deactivate her TV’s too much. She certainly feels more oppressive now which is a good thing as the original “condemnation” posed virtually no threat to survivors. You also have to remember, her “other” power (demanifestation) is just a weak version of Wraith and she’s still predominantly an m1 killer with weak chase power.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493749#Comment_3493749
Being tunneled and camped is not the cause when they have only been hooked once and are not being camped. They try to unhook in seconds. These are the main ones I'm talking about. I was literally feet away once and someone did it.
I've been tunnelled and camped to death. I didn't rage quit like a baby.
To those saying remove DC penalty. Let me spell it out for you. Player goes against an unpopular killer and DC's. Another team mate DC's. Player ends up against bots and DC's. Game ends. Rinse and repeat.
Oh and unpopular is subjective as I've had multiple suiciding teammates against a huntress for example. lol
Ques are already bad at times I don't think people want to waste their time over and over.
So the reason for these cases is simply selfish and sulky acts of game sabotage.
This should lead to a lengthy ban to repeat offenders. The health of the game would be my priority.
You don’t need to “spell it out” for me, thanks. Yes, I didn’t deny that there’s a contingency of players who just do it out of rage/entitlement. I’ve seen people rage quit because they’ve gone down too quickly in chase or have simply been outplayed by the killer. Again, I’m not denying that.
However, you and I both know the game has a wide array of issues for both sides. It’s simply hyperbole to suggest all cases of DC’ing/giving up on hook are done out of spite/game rage. As I said, if you’re getting facecamped/BM’d on hook, what exactly is the incentive to continue the match!? Or if you’re down in the basement with an insidious Bubba staring at you? In those cases it’s a game of hook simulator and if you’re not having fun you don’t owe any other players anything.
you say “the health of the game” should be paramount, and whilst I agree, it’s an obtuse way of looking at things to suggest that giving up on hook is the root of the problem. Again, I’m not dismissing there can be an element of people being sore losers, but also, what about the others who are having really unfun/unfair games and decide their time is better spent elsewhere? Just because you’re able overlook it and move on to the next game it doesn’t mean others should have to. Also, life happens: I’ve been mid-match before now and allowed myself to die on hook because I’ve had to take an important call, felt unwell, answered the door, etc. Your exact logic can be applied to teammates DC’ing/giving up on hook: GG move onto next game.
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I don’t condone it in any way, however, don’t we need to look at the reason this is happening? Sure, there’s a contingency of them who are just entitled and rage quit, but I’m sure a fair amount of game Enders are for a valid reason. If someone’s being tunnelled or face-camped, can you blame them for not wanting to play hook simulator? Or if their teammates are just trolling or farming?
there’s a multitude of reasons as to why people choose to give up on hook. Instead of looking at the problem, look at the causation.
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Adrenaline is one of those perks that is very situational and doesn’t necessarily give value every time.
I was playing against a Blight the other day and I’d equipped Adrenaline. I was about to go down (I was on death hook) but the last gen popped which have me a free health state and the movement increase. As a result, I managed to extend my chase and escape. Without adrenaline, I was for sure going to lose. There are other times I run adrenaline and think it’s a waste - for example, if you’re healthy and working on the last gen whilst a team mate gets chased. If you’re already full health it’s kinda useless, especially if you’re not being chased as the gens are finished.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Doesn't matter to me if they nerf it or not as I don't use it but I still think people got gaslit into thinking it's a busted perk.
Agreed!
I certainly feel it’s the strongest survivor perk since old CoH, but it’s nowhere near as busted as some perks which have previously been introduced.
Honestly, all this drama surrounding MfT makes me think what DBD discussions must’ve been like back in the day. I’ve played for years but didn’t get involved in the community until a couple years ago so I missed a lot of the drama. I’m talking the old Mori offering, old Spirit with MDRing add-on, old DH, infinite loops, busted exhaustion, etc. If people get so riled up about a 3% haste, what on earth was said about these things!?!?
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i think it’s because it’s technically not “breaking the rules” per say , it’s just annoying/frustrating to go against.
even as a survivor main I will say that sometimes it’s justified and I don’t get mad because I would probably do the same. Is it really that bad if an M1 killer tunnels someone out when there’s like one gen left and they’ve only got a couple hooks? Of course they’re going to because at that stage it’s their only route to any sort of “win”’. The only time I say it’s ridiculous is a when it’s a really oppressive killer and they tunnel someone out at 5 gens. Again, not “against the rules” but makes for really unfun gameplay for the player on the receiving end.
There’s no quick-fix, in my opinion. This is owing to the fact that tunnelling occurs due to such a big pool of variables in the game (maps, player skill, perk variety, gen speeds, etc). Baskekit BT really improved the situation, remember when killers could down you straight off the hook? At least you have a chance now to escape.
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I agree with the OP, Thrilling Tremors is such a good perk. It’s not necessarily really strong or OP, but it’s consistent and always provides good/valuable information.
for survivor, I’d have to say We’ll Make It. I think people slept on this perk even pre-COH/medkit nerf. Being able to heal that quickly has come in clutch for me so many times.
Also, shoutout to Alert, Dark Sense, and Nobody Left Behind.
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There’s literally nothing wrong with the hatch, though.
-It incentivises the last survivor to continue the game instead of just going AFK. it creates gameplay for the killer and final survivor when the game is essentially over.
-No “holding game hostage” situation as it can force the EGC if found by killer first.
-it’s not a “free escape” as the game still registers it as a loss for survivors. The only incentive is essentially the BP bonus for a hatch escape.
-The hatch is RNG dependant so, as the killer, you have just as much luck finding it first as the survivor does. That’s balanced in my eyes.
the only thing I can think of is it denies the killer a true 4K, which is the only possible “issue” I can find with the hatch. Even so, it’s still a W for a killer as the survivors have well and truly lost if that game reaches this stage.
Anybody who complains about hatch would not have coped years ago pre-hatch nerf when multiple survivors could just escape mid-game, or when the hatch used to spawn early so survivors could just camp it until their team dies… now that was unfair/unbalanced.
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@Man_of_triangles said:
The weak killers are actually more effective at lower MRR than the stronger killers because they have lower skill requirements and nobody who plays games other than DbD knows how to loop, so even a trapless trapper will get easy downs at such ranks. The game is balanced around people who barely play the game, and those people are more likely to be struggling against Trapper than against baby Blights.
Well said! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
it’s almost like there needs to be two sets of days for this game: one for low MMR, and one for high MMR.
A baby survivor playing Dwight with his tier 1 teachables has a very different experience against say, a Trapper, than a P100 player with thousands of hours experience and all teachable perks unlocked.
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Two answers: time and money.
The base-game is pretty inexpensive these days so I think it’s fair to assume that most of DBD’d revenue comes from players purchasing new content.
The issue is that creating new killers, survivors, maps and perks all takes time. We know that chapters are thought about at least a year in advance and whilst I’m certainly not a programmer or digital artist, I know these things are costly: both in terms of time and money.
my main point? BHVR are far more incentivised to spend their time on new chapters rather than tweaking old ones as that means more $$$. Look at the RE chapters (new killers, maps, legendary skins, etc); that license probably made them a bucket load of money. Equally, this is important for player retention as it keeps the game refreshing and exciting - especially for people who’ve been playing a long, long time.
don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see changes to some older killers (especially Trapper, Myers, Pig, etc), but I think they’ll do it gradually over time (hopefully).
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They’ll keep it as it is for as long as they can because it’ll encourage people to buy the new chapter. Considering we just had arguably the biggest flop of a chapter in Dbd history (ToT), it at least incentivises people to buy the new one.
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The issue with the game is that there’s no differentiation between “casual” or “competitive” players and we all, regardless of play style/experience, tend to get screwed over by MMR.
At the end of the day there will always be an element of competitiveness to DBD due to its asymmetrical nature and the fact that each side has pretty clear “win” conditions (escaping for survivors, kills/hooks for killer).
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@CptCaptain said:
So, devs can create an entirely new killer with entirely new mechanics every 3 months, but it takes 2 years to "rework" a character already in the game?
Makes sense.
One word: money.
releasing chapters, especially those with big licenses (Resident Evil for example) bring revenue to the game and expand the player base. Whilst us long-time DBD players would love to have all our wishes answered (Trapper/Billy buffs, Freddy rework, etc), of course the devs are going to prioritise new content. It’s just economics.
Why invest time/money into a killer (in this case, The Twins) that are amongst the lowest picked in the entire game and was probably one of their poorest selling chapters, when that energy could go into a brand new killer which will, as I said, make the game more profitable. I’m not saying it’s right to ignore feedback/complaints from the core player base, but it logically makes sense.
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Everything you said is essentially placing onus on the survivor for the killers actions.
No matter how many “anti-tunnel” tools a survivor brings, if a killer is determined to get a specific survivor out of the game… they will.
- DS is a joke these days, hence why little-to-no survivors bother with it anymore. 3 second stun? You even said it yourself, it’s redundant against a few killers.
- A lot of killers now hit through basekit BT as they know endurance doesn’t stack. in doing so they remove the 1 minute endurance survivors get from OTR. Easy.
sure, tunnelling isn’t “against the rules”, but in a lot of cases (not all, there are some exceptions) it’s a really crappy way to play.
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It’s going to punish and make it harder for face-camping Bubba’s so that’s a win in my eyes. Nothing more unfun than being the first down and getting face camped by a bubba when there is literally no counter to it (other than hook-swapping). Good riddance, I say! That unfun “mechanic” has been in this game far, far too long.
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Freddy, Hag, and Twins are probably the rarest. I can’t even remember the last game I had against a Freddy.
Trapper and Billy are pretty rare, but I still see more of them than the aforementioned three as they’re still loved and make people feel nostalgic, even if they’re not particularly viable for the current gameplay/meta.
Ive also gone against the Skull Merchant like 5 times (max) since release, but I get that as that chapter was just awful and I’d imagine not many people brought it (myself included - the first ever Chapter I didn’t buy).
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I have to disagree. Where you say “survivors can’t do anything in the beginning of the match against killers”, what do you mean exactly? I found it boring as survivor AND killer to see someone loop the killer for ages whilst the other three survivors pump out gens. No interaction, short games, boring, repetitive, etc.
remember, this game isn’t designed for all four survivors to survive, that’s the idea anyway.
DH has nothing to do with tunnelling as that’s a whole separate issue, and multiple (better) mechanics exist to punish a killer for tunelling (OTR, DS, basekit BT, etc).
DH was a clutch, the same way gen regression perks were for a killer, old Ruin/Undying, etc. I say this as someone who plays survivor mostly, it was a horrible, boring, and unfair perk. Good riddance, I say.
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@scxrletghxst said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381005#Comment_3381005
I mean us survivors complained about NOED for so long because it's just bollocks and it hasn't even been reworked. One Killer can complain about Dead Hard, DS and Iron Will BOOM. instant nerf. I've been playing DBD for 5 whole years and the way the game has been handled is just sad. DBD was so much better back in the day.
“One killer can complain about DH, DS, and IW. BOOM. Instant nerf”.
now you know that is factually and categorically incorrect, right? DH was released way back in 2018 and didn’t get “nerfed” until four years later in 2022. DS was released back in 2017 and only received game-health changes (to stop survivors abusing it) until it was finally nerfed in 2022.
even after the DH nerf back in July last year, many, many players said that the “nerf” was arguably a “buff” and it’s only now receiving a balance change what? Like 9 months later?
look back at the patch notes for all mid-chapter updates since DBD was released and I guarantee you that killer perks get nerfed way before survivor perks do.
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People haven't called it 'rushed' for no reason, though. It's not just a random accusation thrown around because some players don't like the chapter, it's based on some genuine feedback/observations about the chapter.
- Incohesive and disjointed aesthetics and lore. A bedazzled mask paired with basic hunting gear and... a giant robotic blade attached to her arm? Her visual design tells us nothing about who she is or what her story is. When you think of the incredible lore of some of the other killers and how it's reflected in their visuals (Spirit, Artist, Huntress, etc), TSM's outward appearance is horribly basic and she looks like any generic female antagonist from a sci-fi comic/game.
- Also, The Skull Merchant ? Why Merchant? Her lore is a potpourri of conflicting ideas: manga obsessed, collects skulls and turns them into drones, a genius who was able to outsmart and murder big-shot CEO's by the age of 18!?
- Unlike all other recent killers, her animations (pallet destruction, damaging gens, etc) are default and she doesn't have a unique animation at the start of the trial (think of Sadako, The Knight, Wesker, etc.).
- Further expanding on the previous point (and as the OP admitted), her mori is absolutely terrible and unimaginative. She's supposed to be some sadistic, blood-thirsty millionaire mogul who hunts for fun, and the best they could come up with was Freddy 2.0 minus the cool angles/sound effects. And why is the drone there? It's not in any shape or form relevant to the mori yet it just hovers there awkwardly, like they said "oh yeah, we forgot her power was based around drones so let's just put it there".
So yeah, whilst it can't be unanimously said the chapter was 'rushed', you can pretty much insert many other adjectives (half-baked, disjointed, , etc) and the same arguments apply. No matter how much we try and look at the positive aspects of the new chapter, as the saying goes "where there's smoke, there's fire": it's no coincidence that a large portion of the player base has unanimously said "NO" to this chapter.
I don't mean any of this disrespectfully as I understand the work that goes into these things, but BHVR can't release such a lackluster chapter and not expect criticism. It's just disappointing as their original chapters are usually visually stunning and have amazing lore. Plus, I'd like to end on a positive by saying I like that they tried something new with her power and the two new survivors are great!
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Pain Res is absolutely fine as it is. It encourages good play as it requires you to successfully down and hook a survivor. Not only that, but it's very RNG dependent as you only get 5 scourge hooks so unless you're running something like Agitation, it's not always possible to hook a survivor on one.
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I think the overwhelming negativity about this chapter is justified. The killer is horribly out of place, in fact, I'd argue even more out of place than Trickster. Her aesthetic looks more like a comic book/cartoon villain than someone in a horror game, and her power is lackluster at best. Not to mention situational/niche perks and one of the most unimaginative/boring mori's in the entire game.
I've played DBD since 2018 and purchased every chapter so far, yet I can say with confidence this is the first DBD chapter I will point blank not buy. Of course I still love DBD and will eagerly await the next chapter, but they really missed the mark with this one.
In answer to the original question: this kind of response has certainly happened before. Back when Twins came out, people absolutely hated the chapter because of how buggy it was, and they were borderline unplayable in the PTB.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341359#Comment_3341359
Yeah so i assume we cant say its gonna 100% be original (tho i think it is)
We can't say for certain, but I'm pretty adamant it's an original chapter. I say this for one big reason: they've already revealed the chapter title ("Tools of Torment"). If it was a license, they wouldn't reveal the chapter title this early, correct me if I'm wrong, but all DBD-licensed chapters are named after their respective license - I imagine for contractual reasons.
Only the original chapters ("Spark of Madness", "Cursed Legacy", "A Binding of Kind", "Roots of Dread", etc) have these types of names.
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I doubt it, but we'll see.
I can't really think of any ideas on how they could nerf it without entirely redesigning the perk.
Here's my hot take though - DH shouldn't be an exhaustion perk and should become a one-time-use perk like Decisive. The fact that survivors can repeatedly get a free, third-health state every time their exhaustion meter goes down always has, and always will be, horribly unfair. Rather than it being a constant 'get out of jail free' card for survivors to extend every single chase with the killer, it would require more strategy and they'd have to be more selective about when they choose to use it.
It was a horrible perk pre 'nerf' and one could actually argue that it wasn't a nerf by any means and was more of a buff.
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I agree there are aspects of the Knight that need fixing e.g. being able to summon a guard right in front of a hook, buggy AI, etc.
However, the changes were made to make him more viable and actually give him a chance against decent survivors.
- The 'orb' when he summons his guards was changed to make it a little more difficult to predict his pathing. In the PTB/initial chapter release, many players voiced that he was so easy to counter as you could just 'hold W' and run away from the orb's pathing in order to avoid detection.
- The '2 vs. 1' aspect of his power is his main appeal. Plus, it's fairly easy to avoid detection (the guard's zoning is clearly marked by the green rings), and other than the Assassin, the other two guards are slow and clunky and fairly easy to loop/counter.
- There is a clear counter to his power: running through the flag completely negates the Guards.
- Finally, I really disagree with what you said about his Guards only being able to break pallets/kick gens. This would completely remove any appeal as he would essentially be a completely M1 killer whose "special ability" allows him to break pallets/kick gens faster than the other killers. Do you see the issue with that? His USP would be "M1 killer who can use AI to complete boring actions" . You must remember that without his guards, he's an entirely M1 killer with no map mobility or chase power.
I think this always happens when new killers come out. It can be strange trying to counter them and adapt your playstyle accordingly. Heck, people even said Dredge was OP when he was released now you rarely ever see one. The more you Vs the Knight, the better you'll get.
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I hate Boil Over whenever I play killer as I play console and it's very, very noticeable on indoor maps.
If I go against a BO team with toolboxes, map offerings, petrified oaks, etc, I just slug them. If they don't want to play the game the way it's meant to bed played, I won't either.
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It's not to do with 'weakness', it's the fact that both killer and survivor have a small contingency of ridiculous perks that, to be quite frank, shouldn't be in the game because they're so OP - followed by the 95% of other perks which are mediocre/situational at best, and outright useless at worst.
The controversy around Eruption is exactly the same as all the hate old DH (and new DH to a lesser extent) got. It's the fact that going against the same 4 perks every game becomes very stale and predictable.
If they look at another meta shake-up in the future, I hope they fine-tune some of the current meta perks to make them slightly weaker, and then buff some of the underused perks in order to provide some variety again, because, let's be real, survivors have a clear-cut current meta (DH, OTR, CoH, and Adrenaline), and so do killers (CoB, Eruption, Overcharge, etc.). You occasionally see slight variations, but generally see at the very least three of the aforementioned perks in every. single. game.
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While I agree with your observations, going against a Blight running old Ruin/Undying back in the day was so frustrating. The actual 'meta' hasn't changed at all; it's still all gen slow-down/regression.
As you said, I think this just highlights issues with gen-speeds/game design. Whenever I play killer, I'd love to run fun and gimmicky builds, but you need to bring at least two gen-related perks in order to even stand a chance. No matter how much you 'pressure gens', there's only so much you can do against a coordinated team running Prove Thyself/toolboxes on a map with ginormous gen spreads like Mothers Dwelling, Temple, etc.
I honestly think basekit Corrupt would really help; it's so common to have two gens pop by the time you get your first hook.
Also, I miss old Pop so much. It was so satisfying kicking a nearly completed gen and seeing it's progress go right down.
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I think it's because killers tend to run aura-reading perks along with gen slow-down perks. I've seen a lot of people using Nowhere to Hide, Lethal, Darkness Revealed, etc.
Playing stealthily isn't viable with these perks making their way into the meta so Distortion gives you a slight advantage. I mean, a BBQ Blight or a Nurse running Floods of Rage makes tracking/downing survivors very easy.
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It wouldn't work because, as other users have said, the survivor still has a chance to make distance as most pallets still need to be broken regardless of whether the killer is stunned or not.
The only time it would potentially be a little useful would be on super, unsafe pallets. But these are generally very easy to mind-game anyway.
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I think it's because his power works really well when he camps. I can't even count how many Tricksters I've gone against who will proxy-camp a hook then just spam knives at players who go for the rescue.
Also, if you're caught out in a dead zone without many pallets/loops, his range attack feels very oppressive and offers very little counterplay. At least with other range killers (Huntress and DSlinger), you have some level of counter-play as you can see them aiming and it gives you a little more time to react. All Trickster has to do is run behind you and aim in your general direction and all his knives seem to hit.
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@HugTechLover said:
Brutal strength, enduring, sprit fury, hubris.
I second this one!
You usually get absolutely annihilated by a co-ordinated team as you have no gen slow-down, but it's genuinely hilarious seeing the panicked DH's and attempts to 360 after they eat a Spirit Fury. 🤣
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I went against a Trapper on Eyrie recently and I felt so bad for them; I don't think a survivor got caught even once by his bear traps. The devs really overlooked older killers when they designed that map.
Likewise, for a Billy on Lery's; these two examples demonstrate where a map actually renders a specific killer's 'special ability' fundamentally useless.
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In my honest opinion, I think the current hatch mechanic is (generally) okay/fair. Much, much better than the old days when 2 or more survivors would teabag right in front of you and use a key to open the hatch at 2 gens.
The way I see it is: the hatch spawn is pretty random, so both the killer and the survivor have a pretty equal chance of finding it first. It's pretty much down to luck and game RNG, which, in my opinion, is as fair as the hatch mechanic can be.
I do agree that 'slugging for the hatch' can be pretty annoying, particularly if you're the slugged survivor. Similarly, trying to find a stealthy survivor who wants the hatch and is not willing to pick-up their teammate or attempt a gen can also be annoying as killer. But, it's important to consider that the game still moves forward as the slugged survivor would eventually bleed-out anyway and one of you will get their first either way. Boring gameplay imo, and when I play killer or survivor I refuse to play in this way. I'd rather at least try and get more BP's even if it costs me a kill or an escape. As I said though, I don't know how they can fix this issue.
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This may be true, but this isn't the main complaint about Nurse no? If it was, you'd see more people complaining about killers like Dredge and Sadako who can get to the other side of a map pretty quickly by teleporting.
It's the fact that her power is essentially both anti-chase and anti-loop as it allows her to negate most of the basic chase mechanics in the game (pallets, windows, loops, drops, etc). Personally, I don't see people say that Nurse is 'OP' because she was able to teleport straight to them after BBQ procs, it's more along the lines of a chase that would last at least 30 seconds with another killer is over in half the time with Nurse as her power doesn't synergize with the basic chase/escape mechanics of the game, and it allows her to ignore pretty much all the resources survivors have.
I see what you're saying, but at the end of the day, the fact that an M1 killer can cross a map in the same time Nurse's blinks doesn't really prove anything. Nurse is OP and a relic of old DBD and was long, long overdue a nerf.
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Pinhead, by a long shot!
I find his power annoying in general, but throw in the lack of communication and organization in solo-queue and I find him just miserable (and boring) to go against.
Out of curiosity, what's his kill-rate like? I feel like unless I go against a really new/inexperienced Pinhead in solo Q, he usually obliterates us.
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I agree. I've been playing killer a lot more recently and I've come to absolutely despise DH and stopped using it in my build when I play survivor out of solidarity for killer mains lol.
It just feels so wrong/cheap to 'win' a chase/mind game, only for the survivor to have a 'get out of jail free' card to essentially reset the chase and correct their mistake/misread of the killer. Even since the 'nerf' (if you can call it that), it is still essentially a third health state, and despite it not being quite as popular as old DH (still high up there), survivors have adapted to the new DH and it's slowly yet surely becoming just as much of a nuisance as the old, pre-nerf one. When I play killer, in a good match I see it used by no less than two survivors, but seeing it in three (and sometimes even all four survivors!) is becoming more and more common.
I honestly think it needs a rework again. In fact, I've always said it should be a one-time-only perk like Deliverance, DS, etc. I think they should increase their endurance from 0.5 to 1 second to make it more accessible and easy to use, but limit it to one use per match.
And no: 'just bait it out' is not an argument. You essentially have to alter your chase style and assume survivors have DH which, in my opinion, takes the fun out of the game. Perks should be secondary to the actual game, not the other way around.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316667#Comment_3316667
Groaning Storehouse?
Or is it the mine one...
Just had a match on it this morning: Suffocation Pit.
It's quite a narrow map but a very long, rectangular shape. The lower end (where killer shack usually spawns) isn't so bad, but the center has about 4 separate jungle gyms/T&L walls which can all be chained together. Then there's the main mining building which can be an infinite if a survivor knows how to loop well.
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I think Garden of Joy, Decimated Borgo, Coldwind, and RPD (now to a lesser extent) maps will still remain the favorite offerings. Also, that horrid Macmillan map (forget the name of it) that's really long and has all those connected jungle gyms in the center.
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The game is so hard to balance owing to so many variables in each trial. For example: map RNG, 4-perk choices for 4 survivors (16 in total), killer perks, and specific powers, not to mention individual player skill and game knowledge.
If you balance for new, inexperienced players, the game becomes too easy for the higher MMR brackets. Conversely, if you balance for more experienced players, the game becomes too hard and un-fun for new players.
There's no way to truly 'balance' DBD owing to these factors. No matter what the devs try, a certain percentage of the player base will say the game is unfair and killer/survivor sided.
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I've only ever played it on Switch as I don't own a gaming PC or another console so I don't know any different, really.
I (generally) enjoy my experience on Switch but a word of caution: things such as looping and flashlight blinds are much more difficult to achieve on Switch owing to the controls and sensitivity of the joystick. Equally, the graphics aren't quite as good and certain maps are very dark and difficult to play on.
I enjoy it, though, and never had any major issues.
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Killer perk idea
Hex: Manifested Pain
Your malevolent presence forces survivors into a state of panic at the beginning of the trial.
All survivors begin the trial suffering from the injured and broken status effects for as long as the totem remains active. The totem's aura is revealed to survivors within a 4-meter range, gradually increasing to a 24-meter range over the course of 60 seconds.
Survivor perk idea
Let's Do This
You'll do whatever it takes to make sure your friends survive the trial.
Pressing the active ability button within 8 meters of a hooked survivor allows you to sacrifice your own hook state for them. Can only be used once per trial.
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Ghosty. for sure! He's never been the strongest killer in the game, but he's always just super fun to play. His chase theme is awesome and I love his cute, goofy little run. Plus, you can meme with him as he's the only killer who can teabag back (I know Pig can but it doesn't look as funny as GF).
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I agree. I loaded into a lobby with a 3-man SWF yesterday (I knew because they had matching usernames) and went against a Billy. The poor guy didn't get a single hook the whole game and only managed a couple of M1 hits. Once the end game screen came up he only had Billy's three teachable at tier one, plus a couple of yellow addons. In contrast, the survivor builds were full of Dead Hard, Off the Record, CoH, etc (you get the idea), as well as purple flashlights and med kits.
I was playing my P11 Yoichi, and I noticed the other three were P15 (Meg), P22 (Yui), and P45 (Ace), whilst the Billy had no prestige. Now I know people will say "prestige doesn't equate to skill", but I heavily disagree; someone who's spent enough hours in the game to accumulate the millions upon millions of BP's needed to prestige to these levels will undoubtedly have experience and a good game sense. I mention this because I see this happen A LOT when I play killer. For example, I played my Wraith before who I only had at P1, and got stomped by the survivors who were all really, really high prestige levels.
Honestly, it makes me miss the old ranking system. It had its flaws for sure, but I felt the games were far more consistent in terms of skill level. The new skill-based MM just feels so chaotic and random.
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I understand where you're coming from, and in an ideal world, both sides would enjoy every match. However, this is just unrealistic: expecting the opposition to play how you deem fair/fun will only cause disappointment.
For example, saying 'the killer deserves that gen being left alone" is really flawed, and is essentially the same as saying a killer shouldn't grab/attack a survivor who's at a hook for a rescue because 'they deserve the save', or not cleansing a 5-stack Devour Hope 'because the killer earned it'. You see the issue? Sure, these are nice/friendly ways to play, but it's a whole other thing to expect the opposite side to play in this way.
As far as I'm concerned, aside from bad manners, cheating, or exploiting glitches, everything is fair game. Is being tunelled/camped fun for a survivor? No. Is having 3 gens pop before you even get a hook fun for a killer? Certainly not, but as I said, you can't expect every single of the thousands of players online at any given time to play exactly how you deem fun, fair, and interactive.
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I disagree, I see no problem with it, personally.
The only advantage the killer gets from this is seeing what items survivors are bringing, which would very rarely affect the build they decide to bring. I don't know many killers that would swap out a meta perk for something mediocre like Lightborn if they see a lobby with flashlights, or bring Franklin's just because there are a couple of toolboxes. At the end of the day, the true outcome of the match depends on the skill of the players and their perk build; not the items they bring. As I said, would it be really worth the killer's while to waste a perk slot on an item-specific perk just for them to find out it's a brown medkit, or a yellow toolbox?
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I think it's fun to play both as and against The Dredge. Sure, a pretty mediocre killer in terms of power, but I found it refreshing to have a killer with a unique power (Nightfall). The teleportation is a little slow/clunky and works like Demo, but is actually pretty strong with the right addons and perks.
My favorite chapter this year, for sure.
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Well, it's obviously effective if you feel so strongly about it you start a discussion.
Sure, it's not the most exciting thing to go against but sometimes it's the survivors only means of escaping a chase; especially on maps with weak loops/unsafe pallets. Also, the killer has many advantages to catch survivors (they're faster, have individual powers, etc.) so I don't see an issue, personally.
As already echoed in this discussion, camping/tunelling aren't the most "skillful" strategies, but are arguably the most effective.
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I find it funny when I read about people getting gen rushed: where are these super efficient survivors when I play solo-queue? 🤣
On a serious note, I think gen-rushing has become worse since the 6.1 update for two reasons: survivors are even more efficient and conscious of gens due to the increased repair times; and stacked gen slow-down/regression perks became super-meta so survivors are naturally trying to counter game after game of Dead Mans Switch, Pain Res, Eruption, etc. Sure, it is frustrating and is an issue, but it's essentially two sides of the same coin.
One thing that desperately needs changing (and has needed it for a looong time) is gen tapping. I never see people talk about this much but I don't get how it's fair a killer has to commit to the animation to kick and regress gens, yet survivors counter it so damn easily by repairing for a fraction of a second (sometimes right in front of you mid-chase). I think there should be an animation for survivors to 'fix' a regressing gen and it doesn't stop regressing until the animation is complete.