sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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Wait they didn't postpone that?
That perk should not get changed until the anti tunnel is in the game
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Reducing the number of perks and addons per character would be a huge mistake imo. The variety that gets added to the game through new perks is one of the most important parts of every chapter, and I think broad addon variety is important as well. If there aren't many addons on a killer that are worth using, then that killer's addons might need balance changes but it doesn't mean they should just be removed. They already made survivor addons extremely stale on the new items by limiting each item to 5 addons, it leads to the same ones being used too much and it's less interesting, but it's not the players' fault that there aren't enough other options.
What they CAN do (and what I think they should do) is reduce the frequency of new chapters from 4 to 3 per year, and spend that extra development time increasing the quality of both new and existing content (as well as just improving the quality the game in general and having more time for testing and bugfixes).
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I run it without Stake Out sometimes and as long as you're good at skill checks, yes you can get good value.
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That entire building needs a rework tbh.
I'm also not sure there's actually enough space between the lower floor and the ceiling of the lower floor for a hook to fit down there.
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Option 1 is too strong, Option 2 would be fine though (and more unique)
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001319#Comment_4001319
The idea of targeting a single killer and treating her differently than the rest of the roster just doesn't seem fair to me.
"Everybody can utilize all the universally-available resources to their full disposal… except you, Nurse!"
I don't like that. It doesn't sit well with me. And it's a slippery slope that can snowball into drastic change. If I single out one killer for this issue, then there's no reason why I can't apply that logic to a different situation with another killer. All of the sudden, half the roster is unable to use certain mechanics in the game. Totally unfair.
Nurse as a whole is inherently different from any other killer. As such, she requires unique balancing measures that aren't applicable to any other killer. Her ability to use aura reading and how strong it is on her is completely unrivaled by any other character, and it is an issue.
Also, she would still be able to use auras for information, or even in chase to an extent as long as it's before she starts charging her power. It would not be a full removal of aura reading, and some aura perks would still be great on her.
As for your previous comment on Distortion - while it certainly did help counter Nurse (and still does), it was still a very problematic perk in its previous state and it needed to be nerfed. A problematic thing on one side (Nurse aura reading in this case) shouldn't be an excuse to keep a problematic thing on the other side.
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It's something I've thought about before as well, I guess my issue with it is that I feel like a stealth killer who also has a ranged attack and a teleport should probably have a bit weaker stealth than average, and the louder footsteps sort of fulfill that role. Regular Springtrap's stealth is still pretty useful, you still have to get fairly close to a survivor before you really notice the footsteps, especially if there are generator sounds nearby, but it gives enough of a warning that it makes a ranged attack and teleport feel fair given the context. Whereas with Glitchtrap you get snuck up on a lot more easily and suddenly the combo of good stealth with a ranged attack doesn't feel so good to play against.
So for that reason I think the current volume of regular Springtrap should be the standard and the Glitchtrap skin should be made louder.
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I've been saying for years she should have aura-Blindness while charging and using her blinks. It would immediately fix about 90% of the issue with Nurse. The other 10% is an addon pass.
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I'm going to take a guess and say that this part at the bottom is why:
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Road Life should have a built-in self heal ability when activated. There are better options for healing other survivors, so it's really only worth considering this perk for self healing imo, but as it is you can only do that in combination with Self Care or a medkit. If you could heal yourself at normal speed with it alone then it would be better. In its current state there's really no reason to not use Botany instead.
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Old Slinger was absolutely horrible to play against, no thanks. Quickscoping as a concept does not work in this game. It was pretty much no different than if Huntress could still move at 4.4m/s while holding up a hatchet. It needed to be removed
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I agree. While it is technically stronger with this change on the 40m TR killers, they don't really get nearly as much value from it as the 24m TR killers do and I'd consider the change a nerf overall. It should be reverted
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Survivor escape rate: 46.82%
Killer kill rate: 63.35%
I play around 60-65% survivor, 35-40% killer.
For both sides, I generally don't run meta builds super often, I like experimenting with all sorts of different builds and perks.
For survivor, the vast majority of my games are solo queue. Around 20-25% are with a duo. Less than 1% is full SWF.
Individual killer stats (ordered by pick rate, note I've been playing since 2021 so a lot of newer killers are more towards the bottom)
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I understand your frustration, OP. However, there were some pretty serious problems with the systems as they were implemented on the PTB, and number changes alone were not going to be sufficient to fix those issues. Unlike the anti-3 gen system which is actually pretty good at only punishing 3 genning and not interfering with normal play, this was not the case with these systems at all.
The slugging changes weren't actually too far off from being okay (only thing that was needed imo was to remove basekit Tenacity and stop the 90 second timer from increasing in certain situations), but the tunneling changes had a lot more issues and the triggers for certain bonuses/penalties were far too broad and didn't take enough context into consideration. For example, there was no differentiation between a survivor actually getting hard tunneled vs. a survivor who got off the hook and immediately went back to a generator, or a hex totem, or some other important objective (ie. the system didn't take conspicuous actions into account, only whether they were last hooked or not, which is too broad). Unhook protection mechanics were still abusable even with no collision (you could still put yourself inside the other survivor basically), and in rare cases, there was actually an edge case which rewarded the killer for tunneling if two survivors were hooked in a short timeframe (ie. Survivor A is on hook, Survivor B gets hooked before Survivor A gets saved, killer goes back to hook and hard tunnels Survivor A, but it counts as a non-consecutive hook action and gave bonuses which shouldn't be awarded). There were some other issues as well. Smaller tweaks and number changes weren't going to be able to address these problems, and overall, it was not in a state that was ready to release to live servers.
I do want these problems with the game addressed, but it needs to be done the right way, and I would much rather delay the system's implementation and take more time to improve it rather than rushing something into the game that is flawed and incomplete.
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I completely disagree, it is a dash. If they were aiming for an extended lunge, then just give him an extended regular lunge. This is a special attack you have to charge up and slow down while charging, then have a limited turning rate during the attack. He honestly feels like a tall Chucky but with shorter range and an instadown. It also feels very clunky in general. The update completely strips away Myers' identity and waters down what made him unique, and I really hope they reconsider the changes. This rework is not good.
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I'd say this is for the best. They are on the right track with some of this stuff, but they do need to make some pretty significant changes and if they feel they need more time to do it the right way, I'm 100% okay with that. I just hope they don't abandon it completely or make it too ineffective in the process.
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I got the same issue with Third Seal, so it might be a thing with all of them
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@Astel said:
Good to see that Haddonfield and Coldwind getting more pallets, but did Crotus Prenn also need more pallets?
Disturbed Ward actually got nerfed in this patch. The map is smaller now and the upstairs building generator is not as safe anymore, there are more openings to the room
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It's a buff for 40m TR killers, it's a nerf for killers with a small terror radius
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It was fun for like a week and then I got tired of it and went back to normal mode.
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It didn't say anything about preventing crow disturbance, so no it probably doesn't counter Spies
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I'm torn on this. On one hand, I really feel like we've had more than enough dash killers lately.
On the other hand…he really was not fine the way he was and he couldn't really keep up with the current state of the game. And the one thing that did let him do that (Tombstone) was unhealthy and shouldn't exist. It does seem like he will still have some elements of his old kit as well, including vault speed and stealth abilities, and stalking. Sure, Slaughtering Strike is a dash ability, and admittedly I'm a bit bored of that killer design at this point (part of why I'm glad Relentless didn't win in the Grimoire), but that's not his entire kit, so I'm interested to see how it plays out on the PTB overall.
Also, no, his addon variety was not good at all, in fact it was terrible. There were so many addons that did the exact same thing so there were basically only around half of his addons with actually unique effects, mostly everything else was just copies of other addons with number changes. There were 5 addons that affected the duration of tier 3, that is way too many addons for a similar effect. Realistically, the only addons that were used the majority of games were addons that affected stalk rate, tier 3 duration, Tombstones, or the occasional Vanity Mirror/Dead Rabbit. Scratched Mirror died because of the map offering changes, and pretty much everything else was bad.
It does also sound like they are keeping old Myers an option through the reworked Fragrant Tuft of Hair, so there's that I guess. But anyways at this point I'm kinda undecided on if I like this new design or not, I really need to see it in action.
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Oof, I didn't think about that. Yeah, I mostly support the tunneling changes, but this is a problem. Same thing kinda applies to Pig too, if a survivor fails to remove their trap in time the killer should not be punished for that, that's literally just part of their power
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@Mandy said:
The most frustrating part about The Ghoul from survivor side, was his "kidnap tech", by removing that we feel that this will open the door for survivors to have counterplay to the killer, we've already seen this happening amongst survivors even with kidnap tech.
Removing kidnap tech is a good change, but it's nowhere near enough on its own. There are many more issues with this killer, and although kidnap tech was frustrating to go against, I would disagree that it was the #1 most frustrating aspect - at least for me, those would be the extremely short cooldown and free injure capabilities, as well as Centipede + Yamori's Mask addons. I don't really think this nerf by itself is going to change much at all, he's still going to be extremely oppressive.
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So currently when you damage a survivor with UVX the duration increases by up to 6 seconds (limited to the starting duration), pretty sure that's the number that's increasing (and the starting duration is still 10 seconds). They haven't said yet by how much though.
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Nope. Messes up the queue times too much.
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Yes. It works with any killer blind, so flashlights, flashbangs, blast mines will all work. In fact, if you have Blast Mine + Residual Manifest and see a killer trigger Blast Mine but Residual Manifest doesn't activate, that's a Lightborn giveaway.
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Can confirm this, the 25% walk speed increase didn't work for me either.
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I don't think this should be done for all sources of endurance, but I absolutely agree there should be some kind of built-in protection system for recently unhooked survivors, kinda like what Pinhead has maybe. Spearing a survivor who just got unhooked and reeling them in and waiting the 10 seconds should not be allowed. But I don't think he should lose the ability to counter DH
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I don't think mending is the issue, mending is already faster than normal in 2v8 and it's also the determining factor of who Legion is allowed to hit in Frenzy and who they can't hit without losing power. So removing mending would have the side effect of breaking that as well.
I would try just reducing the speed bonus for consecutive hits and if that's still not enough maybe don't allow Frenzy downs in 2v8.
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Maybe, but the short cooldown is still an issue too
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Pretty good list overall, and I very much appreciate finally seeing a tier list that appropriately lists Clean Break as a good perk, I run it a lot and it's massively slept on imo.
Specialist belongs in the category with the other chest perks, if chests were buffed it would be much better.
Prove Thyself should be in decent. It's not what it used to be, but I don't think it's undertuned.
DH/DS/Windows of Opportunity should all be much higher.
Empathic Connection should be in very good. 35% heal speed is quite noticeable and the info is very good for your teammates, not just to get healed by that person but also in chase for example as if I am injured and someone else has the perk, I know which generator they are doing and can avoid taking the killer there.
I think Lucky Break should be a tad bit lower. It's good, but I don't think it's consistent enough to fit in with all the other meta perks at the top.
Cut Loose should be in the bad category. It is way too restrictive and difficult to use, the duration is too short and the 45 second cooldown doesn't match its strength at all. I was actually really disappointed it didn't get a buff when a bunch of the other survivor deception perks got cooldown reductions a few months ago.
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Ghoul is way stronger. It's not even close
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I think Fly might be slightly overtuned now, but only slightly.
Other than that he is fine and in a good spot imo. I like him.
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Wicked has never worked on struggle phase, no. The only way to self-unhook on struggle is the anti-camp
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Being forced to watch the mori when the game is already over would just be a waste of time. We don't need to keep survivors in games for an extra 20 seconds for no additional gameplay.
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Map offerings were nerfed to only have a 20% success rate, you can't guarantee a map anymore
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984892#Comment_3984892
Was it always like this or they changed it? Cause if yes, I was such a dumb person using two this perks together when I firstly started to play this game…
It's always been like this. The in-game description of Open Handed is misleading and doesn't make this rule clear at all unfortunately.
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- Yes she definitely needs bugfixes. And a lot of them too.
- Agree with the chase cooldown change for the reasons you said.
- Search recall is something I hadn't considered before but I don't really see any problems with it.
- I would much rather rework Knotted Rope with a new effect than re-buff it. Old Knotted Rope + STBFL was pretty horrible to play against and I don't think it would be much different at 8% than it was at 10%. Basic attack recovery speed should just not really ever be part of an addon imo. My suggestion has been to change it to instead increase the size of the Search radius by 20%.
- I'm indifferent on Barley Meal being partial basekit. I don't think I would have anything against it, but I've never felt like its necessary either. I don't use it very often and usually do fine without it.
- I'd also say they could look at buffs for Spyglass and Belaying Pins, I don't think those addons are very good. Belaying Pins gives only 20 seconds of oblivious in situations where survivors should often know you're coming anyway since you just sent the dog there. Spyglass aura at 3 seconds is quite easy to miss entirely especially if you're not in chase with that survivor (and it doesn't activate at all anyways if you hit them before houndsense ends).
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I'm pretty sure that's intentional as that's consistent with how it's worked with Plot Twist ever since they fixed the old bug where using Plot Twist with the box would just dispose of the box entirely.
In this situation, if the killer picks up the survivor, then that will count the same as the killer downing them with the box and the chain hunt will start. But it isn't an automatic thing.
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You need to play for the full 15 seconds in order for it to linger for 90 seconds afterwards. If you stop playing before 15 seconds, then the buff ends immediately and it will still go on cooldown.
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Flashlights don't need nerfs
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983845#Comment_3983845
This is why I don't like the idea of limited charges.
I don't think I've ever seen a survivor use a fog vial more than 5 times in the same game, so asking for 5 charges isn't really a meaningful nerf, because most survivors wouldn't run out of charges.
I don't think survivors are ever going to like the concept of limited charges, because the number would have to be something really low like 2, in order for it to be a meaningful nerf, and 2 feels bad.
This is mainly why I'm pushing for 3 charges, as I feel that would strike a balance between imposing a meaningful limit on uses but also still giving ample opportunities to use the item. I agree 2 feels bad to play with, and also agree that 5 would be too many for the reason you described.
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Maybe this is a hot take, but I don't even think Loot Bag should exist as an addon. It's really easy to trigger for what it does and it genuinely feels extremely cheap to play against.
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I don't think an unrelated nerf on the opposing side should be used as justification for this.
Like, I agree Boil Over should be reworked, but it shouldn't have anything to do with Franklins, it should just be because Boil Over itself is an unhealthy perk (and it is).
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They should have pre-nerfed opacity and 3 charges. I think infinite use was a problem and shouldn't return, but the opacity wasn't and nerfing that made them a LOT worse. All they had to do was add limited charges, not a nerf to the actual effect (except Potent Extract which was too strong originally).
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@Mandy said:
Looking at the status update, it should now be all resolved.
Can confirm I've been playing on Steam for the last 90 minutes or so and haven't had any problems.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983312#Comment_3983312
The thing about only having three uses is that those uses need to be very potent to make up for it.
I personally think it would be healthier to have the item balanced with a just "decent" effect instead of a really potent one, and give players more opportunities to get value from it. That outcome really is better for everyone- no high risk of whiffing your extremely limited item, but no super potent, super annoying effect to deal with on the killer side either.
I mean that's the issue though, the current effect is really not decent, they're honestly quite bad right now and were bad last patch even with unlimited charges. The opacity reduction weakened them far too much and I don't think they ever should've been nerfed that way, other than Potent Extract (which was overtuned but then got overnerfed), the opacity was never an issue other than the map-specific bugs which need to be fixed. The only reason base fog vials were overbearing originally was because they could be used too often and there wasn't much strategy in saving them for the right moments, they could basically be used in every chase which was unhealthy. The effect itself was always fine, the problem was that the effect was too common.
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I would much rather revert the opacity and keep limited charges. The opacity nerf made fog vials much less useful imo even with infinite usage.
That said, I agree 2 charges is not enough and I think it should be bumped up to 3, but no more than 3 either.
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@ThatRyanB said:
I totally hear the frustration here and know I personally can't change how these nerfs feel for you, but I do want to make sure the feedback I'm bringing back to the team is as specific as possible and as representative of your experiences in the game as possible. With that, it makes it easier to advocate for changes.
If you don't mind me pulling this back a step to dig into the details, I'd like to ask two specific questions:
1. Of the two recent nerfs to Fog Vials (reduced opacity; max 2 charges), do you feel that one of these in particular pushed the item from feeling viable to feeling like it's not worth using? If so, which was it?
2. If you could make one specific change to Fog Vials that'd push them towards being an item you'd enjoy using, what would it be?
I hear the more general feedback (and rest assured, it's being collected and shared with the team), but if there are specific facets of the recent nerfs that felt most impactful, I want to make sure I'm giving them my particular attention. That, and things that could make Fog Vials feel better for you (like the great suggestions of increasing the total charges a little more).The opacity nerf is what basically killed the item. Limited charges is fine and is a necessary change, the infinite usage was the only problem with fog vials, though maybe 3 charges would be appropriate, 2 is a bit limiting, but I feel like 3 would give ample opportunities to use the item while still requiring thoughtful and strategic use.
So I would do this, overall:
- Revert base opacity to 40%
- Increase charges to 3 instead of 2
- I'd also consider reworking Potent Extract to add 1 additional charge (and remove its current effect). The current version is pretty bad, but increasing the opacity beyond 40% (originally) was a little too strong. But the current penalties on it are far too severe.