sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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Knight's anti-loop is boring but he's not actually that strong in chase despite that and in order to reduce guard lethality at loops he would need buffs in other areas.
I'm just brainstorming here, but maybe your idea could be applied only to guards with short path distances (so it would apply to insta-dropped guards) and any guard over a certain range threshold would behave the same way it does now (with the capability to down survivors). This way, we're not nerfing long-range guards at all because that's not the issue with him.
I would then also argue half of each of his three best addons (Map of the Realm, Dried Horsemeat, Call to Arms) should be taken out of the addons and put into his basekit (so for example, Carnifex's base patrol vision range would be 10 meters instead of 8, and the addon would add 2 meters instead of 4, keeping it at 12 with the addon). Then he probably needs a buff to guards created from longer patrol paths, and since we're basically making guards similar to Legion's Frenzy with this idea if they're short-range/insta-dropped at a loop, I think it'd be reasonable to make any guard hit apply deep wound to healthy survivors (not just Assassin). This won't even make much of a difference as it's usually more optimal for the survivor to get hit by the Knight anyway and not the guard, if they have a choice between the two.
@Blueberry said:
You're essentially pushing for a worse Legion with lots of extra steps and a longer cooldown.
If you really want Knight fixed you should propose actual solutions that still keep him good because what you're recommending makes him significantly worse...and he's already pretty bad.
Something like nerfing his insta drop guards at loops that you dislike but buffing his long range guard snipes. Those long range guard snipes are AI downing you, but they require skill to place as you're tracking with sound that far away.
Guards that don't down are useless...which is why he's generally quite bad right now.
One other thing they could do with longer-range guards is nerf the Standard with longer patrol paths. If the Knight isn't there to pressure with the guard you can just grab the flag after 5 seconds (10 if it's Carnifex) and at that point the guard isn't providing much of a delay. I think it's fine as it is with short-range guards in chase but a bit too powerful if the Knight is far away/not chasing the survivor. You don't even need to grab the flag at all to avoid getting injured by guards outside of chase, so that wouldn't really change, but they could provide more macro pressure by delaying survivors a bit longer.
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I care far more about the gameplay. Her visual design doesn’t really bother me that much. I would much rather have a killer that doesn’t look as good but has an interesting power that is both fun to use and fun to face. Skull Merchant’s power isn’t that interesting and yet she’s probably still going to be worse than Knight at 3-genning even though it’ll likely end up being her best strength. Overall perk quality in this chapter also concerned me a lot, a lot of the new perks on both sides are not very good.
The only other thing about her not relating to gameplay that really disappointed me was her mori.
But I agree part of the community’s disappointment and one of the main factors revolves around the trailer. What we saw there and what we were expecting as a result wasn’t what we actually ended up with and I think that disappointed a lot of players right from the start, even if it doesn’t personally bother me as much.
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I do think it’s too strong but I don’t think it should be nerfed again until killers have better slowdown at base and/or gens don't fly so quickly at the beginning of the game.
I think there’s 2 categories of strong and overused perks:
- Perks that are actually just overpowered
- Perks that are a bit too strong but combat and/or band-aid fix a problem with the game that needs to be addressed first
Pain Res falls into the second category imo (and so do a few other slowdown perks).
Eruption was in the first category.
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Slinger needed to be nerfed but they should’ve given him more in return. But instascope in a game like this is dumb and will never be a fair concept.
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Regardless of whether players use DH because they find it fun or not, it doesn’t change its status as an overpowered perk. Whether or not something is fun doesn’t affect how strong that thing is. I’m sure DH is fun for a lot of players that use it and it’s extremely strong. Even weaker things can still be fun too. I love using Autodidact and find it fun even though I know it’s not good and usually not worth it.
That said, I disagree that it’s the main reason why it’s used so much. Players on both sides have been running full meta builds for years. Which perks meta builds consist of has changed over time, but DH is just one small piece of that. If DH didn’t exist at all, it wouldn’t stop anybody from just replacing it in their loadout with another meta perk, whether that be SB or anything else.
Take Blast Mine as an example. It’s fun to use it and watch the killer get stunned when they kick your gen. But it’s not meta because it isn’t actually super strong. It would get used more if it was more powerful, but it’d be primarily because it’s powerful, not primarily because it’s fun to use.
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I never saw anyone use it in its previous state but that might’ve just been because range was OP and better.
I do agree it’s a bit ridiculous now.
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Wraith is one of my most-played killers.
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Yeah it really doesn’t go well with her at all honestly. The terror radius themes are fine but the actual chase theme is really loud and unfitting for Nurse.
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Map offerings should just be removed.
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This is a really good idea.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358223#Comment_3358223
I didn't know you could see the boxes aura with this. Very cool. Are there any other perks that reveal the boxes aura?
It doesn’t show the box aura, but you can figure out where it is based on the spawn locations of the survivors (and your current position).
There aren’t any perks that directly show its location, but Hoarder will show you when and where its picked up by a survivor if you are close enough. You can get a head start towards them and interrupt the solve.
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It isn’t a fair perk.
I don’t even think it should be nerfed because nerfing it to make it fair and completely prevent it from getting value every game even in its absence probably requires nerfing it to a useless state. I think it needs to be replaced with a completely different effect entirely.
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She’s good but she’s balanced.
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I think almost all of them need changes.
Cut Loose is the only perk that’s in a good spot. I don’t think it will be meta but I do think it will see some use.
The Teamwork perks are both terrible and have too many conditions to be any good. Also completely unnecessary 140 second cooldowns for some reason.
Friendly Competition is bad and as it is Prove Thyself is just better. I think an easy fix though would just be to make the 5% boost affect all actions (like what Resilience does) for the 75 seconds instead of just repairing (but not vault speed though, don’t think it should get that).
Background Player’s rework is much healthier than the PTB version but it should only activate if you start to run during the killer’s pickup animation (or if you’re already running). Right now if you’re just working on a gen far away it gets wasted and you get Exhausted for no benefit which sucks.
Blood Rush is too strong and primarily punishes killers who play nice which isn’t good. 20 seconds often isn’t long enough to be able to outplay it without tunneling. The healing time/Broken status duration needs to be increased to at least 30 seconds. Only redeeming quality is that it doesn’t work with DH.
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It exists to ensure the game can end in a 1v1.
I do think crow mechanics should be more strict in 2v1s so survivors can’t hide forever. As in, you get crows after a certain amount of time if you’re not doing an objective and aren’t in chase with the killer, even if you are moving around. Hiding and waiting for your teammate to die shouldn’t be rewarded.
As for the killer side of it, a 3k with a hatch escape should count as a merciless victory, imo, so hatch doesn’t take away adepts and it’s more clear that 3 kills is a win and the 4th doesn’t matter.
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Honestly just rework pallet Freddy, it's boring for both sides anyway.
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Eh. SC is still giving you something you normally can’t do at all without an item so I wouldn’t really consider it a “downside.”
I don’t think perks should have penalties unless absolutely necessary, which Botany’s is as long as it provides 50% extra self-healing speed. I would rather they keep it at 50% for team healing but lower it for self-healing so they can remove the downside because it feels terrible when you pull a brown or green medkit out of a chest with it right now.
Stuff like Deli/FTP inflicting Broken is fine as it is though, those are strong effects and need the risk associated with using them.
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@Firellius said:
The last 'health' chapter made the game considerably worse, though...
While it certainly made some things worse, overall it was a step in the right direction. And one of the main things that made it worse is finally about to get nerfed.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358096#Comment_3358096
It was entirely experimental, and I wonder if BHVR is ever going to provide another PTB with changes they made from the last experiment. I just really felt like we were left in the dark in terms of information.
Hopefully not, I never want to see any of that again. The fact that moris don’t occur in most matches is part of what keeps them interesting and more special, and base UB created far more problems than it solved. The whole system sometimes made the best killers even stronger when they don’t need to be any stronger than they already are and generally speaking the weaker killers would’ve been hurt by it the most, just further separating the gap between the high and low ends of the killer roster.
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The finisher mori PTB was pretty bad. At least Ghostface’s was bad only because of him and not two core game mechanics being tested that were beyond terrible and applied to every killer.
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@katoptris said:
I could have sworn it was mentioned. It might just be in the tooltip or something.
I believe one of the tooltips when loading in does mention it, yeah. But it’s nowhere to be found in his power description.
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+1.
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Bamboozle on Leatherface.
STBFL on Deathslinger and Pig.
Corrupt on Trapper and Myers unless I’m running some weird build.
Iron Maiden on Huntress.
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It goes the other way too. Dredge’s description says Nightfall time is reduced if survivors destroy a remnant which is completely false (which I verified multiple times in a custom match). I’m guessing it was a leftover part of his power from development that they ultimately decided was unnecessary and was scrapped. He’s never had that mechanic and he definitely doesn’t need it either.
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I think Deliverance’s icon should be shown to your teammates next to your portrait on the HUD if you have it available. There’s a few other perks that could receive this treatment as well.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357572#Comment_3357572
That makes a lot of sense actually. I was running BK and SC, and it felt somewhat slow compared to solo boon.
Yep because while both CoH and Botany provide 50% bonus healing speed, CoH has a 50% penalty for self-healing and Self-Care’s is 65% (100% - 35%).
If CoH’s self-heal rate was 35%, and its healing speed bonus stayed at 50%, then self-healing in it would be the exact same as current SC + Botany (which is around 30.5 seconds, compared to SC alone which is 45.7).
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I usually try not to kill anyone without having hooked at least 3 survivors at least once. So this usually means anywhere from 5-7 hooks total depending on the situation.
That said, once there’s only 1 or 2 gens left I’ll start not caring about it as much.
But I would rather lose more and do this than just hardcore camp and tunnel every game because I find it boring and unfun both for the survivors as well as myself.
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There is one other nice thing about Eruption I'm not sure most people noticed on the PTB.
When the Eruption nerf was initially announced, it was stated that the aura reading duration would be 10 seconds, but on the PTB, it was increased to 12 seconds at tier 3, meaning Distortion users actually lose 2 tokens when Eruption triggers because it has to spend a 2nd token in order to cover that extra 2 seconds.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
why not a perk that creates fake KI like Red Herring does for notification?
Because it goes against the reason KI exists at all, not to mention it'd be a completely useless perk against any killer that doesn't utilize the mechanic.
@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357371#Comment_3357371
That'd be a nerf, since he already gets a notif bubble. Changing it to KI will just make it lose value on potentially eating distortion stacks.
Ngl I forgot that they removed Distortion disabling itself while you're in a trap, that used to not matter because it didn't work if you were trapped.
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Never, because IW is still good. It's just not OP anymore.
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Yes because the entire point of KI is that it can't be directly countered. KI is used solely for certain killers; there are zero killer perks that utilize it (and that's how it should be). It's a way of providing information to certain killers as part of their power and having a hard counter to it would hinder certain killers' powers far too much, especially Legion's.
The only killer that has survivor aura reading in their basekit is Trapper (when a survivor steps in a trap) and tbh even that should probably be replaced with KI instead.
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Since when is it toxic to use an item the way it's intended to be used?
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It's definitely a decent perk, but it wouldn't be used as much if not for the high prevalence of strong medkits and toolboxes.
Personally, I love running it on Wesker with Hoarder just to make people drop spray cans and give away their position when they go back for it or pick up another one. Lots of free information.
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All I really want is to just add a bleedout button when there's only 2 survivors left. After maybe 45 seconds you can bleed out and give your teammate a chance at hatch and the game that the killer has already won doesn't needlessly drag on forever.
To further reinforce that a 3k is a killer win, make a 3k with at least 1 generator remaining count as Merciless Killer so there's less incentive for the killer to bother dragging out the game for the 4th kill in these scenarios.
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I disagree, I think that would just mean there are now 2 exhaustion perks that are better than the rest and those 2 would be used and still dominate the meta.
The problem with buffing existing perks to the level of the current meta is that with some perks there’s no way to properly do that without making them overpowered because of the nature of what those perks are and what kind of effects they have, and the nature of what the meta perks are and WHY they’re meta. That’s not to say BHVR shouldn’t buff weak perks, they absolutely should, but the standard for a “strong but balanced perk” is too high on both sides.
If all perks were similar in strength to the current meta, perks as a whole would become too powerful and too game-changing. The only way to fix this is by buffing weak perks while also toning down the meta perks at the same time. BHVR tried to do this with 6.1.0, and it did help a little, but it wasn’t enough.
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Was it tier 3 Blood Warden?
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Everything about Freddy is just sad. Not just his addons.
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I agree, it’s a minor inconvenience but it’d be a good QoL change.
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I agree with changing the activation condition since as it is now it just gets wasted if you’re far away and have no intention of going towards the killer. You should only get Exhausted if you’re actually trying to use it.
Increasing the sprint duration is unnecessary though.
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It’s an outdated mechanic, they should either only break temporarily or not at all. Killers don’t always have multiple options on where to hook and if this leads to a hook deadzone later it’s not really their fault.
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Certain perks should just be shown near a survivor’s portrait when appropriate (eg. Deliverance or DS when available). I’d also like healing progress of injured survivors to be visible (at all times, not just while healing) and exit gate progress.
The ping idea is too much though, now you’re giving exact pinpoint locations which isn’t only benefiting solo anymore.
A simple chat wheel would probably be fine as long as it remained ONLY a chat wheel. There shouldn’t be in-game voice chat.
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The range should be centered on the gen, not the killer. Other than that don't think it needs any other changes.
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@Emeal said:
No Thanks. I don't need no scuffed system preventing me from taking advantage of Survivor Mistakes.
I surely hope bHVR is wise enough to EVER indulge such ideas as they would only allow Survivors to do more things without the Killer having any impact on the game. Killers are a playable side, they are not cattle. We need to be able to make a choice and respond to what the Survivors do. Not have automatic systems in place that prevent us from responding.
How about Survivors don't unhook their team-mates next to the Killer.
How about Survivors actually try to escape from the Killer instead of trying to take a consequence free hit after being unhooked.
Survivors have so many options for tunnel retaliation when they are unhooked, but few want to use a Perk slot for it.
Its their choice, Their consequences. They just don't want to deal with it.
This doesn't really always boil down to survivor mistakes though. It's not like survivors always have a choice about unhooking next to the killer. If you're just carelessly farming your teammates/instantly saving behind the killer's back before they can walk away, then yeah that's poor survivor play, but if the killer is never leaving the hook then at some point you can't really blame survivors for trying to rescue near them anymore.
I'm not convinced that basekit DS is necessarily the best solution, but perks on both sides should be useful options that give you a better chance of victory, not requirements to counter a specific playstyle from your opponent. Camping and tunneling are too effective of strategies for how easy they are especially with certain killers, and it doesn't help that the best perk against tunneling was nerfed harder than it needed to be which mostly erased the deterrence factor it used to have.
Of course, that's not to say survivors never make bad plays in this regard. Do some survivors needlessly farm their teammates or make stupid plays after being unhooked? Absolutely. There's no denying that. But that doesn't mean all of them are and it's not always survivors making poor choices/stupid decisions that get them killed ALL the time.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
It's been like this since forever. I have very little hope that it'll ever be addressed.
It was actually fixed on Skull Merchant’s PTB.
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Yes, flashlights basically were given a buffer; when the killer is picking up a survivor, you can blind them up to 0.4 seconds too early and you’ll still get the save. So the timing is far more lenient.
They also got a nerf though, locker saves are impossible now.
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Thana already got nerfed into the ground.
One survivor being injured adds less than 2 seconds to a generator and you want it to be a hex perk?
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Inner Healing without needing to cleanse a totem would be almost no different than Self Care, you’d just need to find a locker which generally isn’t difficult.
Inner Healing is a balanced perk. The problem is that CoH is too strong and boons are more prevalent than they should be as a result.
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I don’t think any killer is 100% perfect, but I would say Artist comes close. She really just has a few addons that are underwhelming (like 5 of them, including both her iridescents). Her basekit is balanced.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354636#Comment_3354636
I went to go check, and it is indeed 21 seconds. Strange, imo.
Still, I find CoH to be more help than hindrance as killer. I play killers that get fast downs (i.e. Slinger), so I don't mind if survivors are healthy when I find them. 21 seconds rubbing their belly is better than 21 seconds on a gen, imo.
The reason it's 21 is because even though it's at 50% speed, you also still get the +50% healing speed bonus with that, meaning you're actually self-healing at 75% speed overall.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355082#Comment_3355082
To be fair, if you were just hit by a hatchet, odds are you aren't going to be repairing, healing, cleansing, etc in the next 10 seconds anyway.
Which is also part of why they should rework it, because it’s not even good and yet buffing to something meaningful would just recreate the same problem Eruption had.