roundpitt
roundpitt
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416337#Comment_3416337
You're correct on how they operate. But don't look a gift horse in the mouth cause if they did actually understand how the game is played then it wouldn't just be killer getting nerfed.
I'm a killer main, so go right ahead.
I don't play blight because he's annoying to play. Why they thought running into walls repeatedly would be fun is beyond my understanding. Perhaps there is some primal pleasure in smashing one's skull into objects that I haven't yet discovered for myself.
If it were up to me, I'd completely rework his power into something where you don't run into walls.
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Yea games against a good blight feel completely unwinnable and oppressive. You enter "give up immediately, go next" territory.
I think that BHV is likely relying on analytics data instead of actually playing the game though.
Mandy said that Hug Tech was a bug and will be fixed.... like a year ago. I still have the screenshot.
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Well actually, after they buffed his guards you can place a guard at max length and get hits pretty often especially if you surprise the survivor.
I think you may be playing against low skill knights if all you are seeing are guards being dropped at loops. That’s only optimal when the survivor is in a corner tile. Corner tiles should result in a free hit every time when zoned correctly.
Also, the knight doesn’t have a terror radius while placing guards. You can use this to your advantage by surprising a survivor when you come out of patrol mode for a free hit. Bonus points if the freshly hit survivor panic sprints straight into the guard you just placed.
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@appleas said:
The annoying thing about old DS was that it could be used offensively, unhooked Survivors had 60 seconds to heal up, body block another Survivor who was being chased and get downed or jump into a locker in front of the Killer. If the Killer took the bait and went for the pickup, the Killer gets DS. Even if the Killer left the Survivor slugged, the other chased Survivor would have more time to escape.
Yea I mentioned that in the opening post.
"Prior to the nerf, survivors had been “weaponizing” the perk. So I understand the need. But I think a bit more finesse was needed."
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I tried it quite a bit. I even tried it on the PTB when they increased healing times to 24 seconds. Leverage made very little difference even stacked with Sloppy Butcher. Survivors would simply do gens for the small amount of time that it was active.
It needs a duration buff for sure. Or if the duration can't change, then buff the living crap out of the healing debuff.
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@SeaFlower said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410345#Comment_3410345
Then why are you playing a game literally about eliminating players from the game?
Because when one of us doesn't get singled out and face camped out from the start, the game is fun.
I think you misunderstand.
In it's current state, this game rewards early tunneling heavily. The killer removes 25% of the survivor's pressure by doing so. There's no other perk/addon/offering combination that can give this kind of value. I understand why they do it, I mostly play killer so I understand completely.
The game needs work.
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When people tunnel my wife out early I just let them sacrifice me immediately, because I don't want to spend 15-20 minutes playing without her.
I'm not condoning doing this, it's just what I personally have to do because the game is designed poorly when you want to play with someone else. There's your feedback. Do what you will with it.
If they implemented something that punishes survivors for suiciding on hook, we would find another game to play.
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I tried disabling the steam overlay and the issue persists.
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EDIT: I tried this and it only partially helped. If I click anywhere it works again but still randomly loses focus and I have to click again.
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@Archael said:
DS should give more stun, and maybe hide scratch marks for some time.
I mean, it works only after being unhooked (not sure if only once), and deactivate if started to actually do something.
Its fair trade off, anti-tunnel perk, but needs some buffs.
You have maximum three chances to use it. But once you successfully stun the killer, it deactivates for the rest of the game. So it has a single use. And if you miss the skill check obviously it does nothing.
Remember, it takes up a perk slot. All for a one time three second stun. 👌
Give it extra stun duration if the killer camps. Where the stun increases by 0.5 Seconds per 10 seconds while within 16 meters up to a maximum stun duration of 5 seconds.
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@DjEnderFox107 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372524/decisive-strike-near-zero-value
I suggested that decisive strike become an item instead of an keep where it has its charges and can have its own add ons so make it more useful. It would make Franklins more useful for killers and for survivors more useful to get away from killers multiple times if they are being tunneled
That's way too powerful.
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@HungrySnek said:
So, yesterday I had the same scenario a few times and it's absolutely stupid. I am playing a bloodpoint build because I want to hit the 2 Millionen Mark before the new Bloodweb Update goes life.
So I bring Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Prove Thyself and Kindred
The gens where completed pretty quickly since the killer chased one survivor for the whole match. So the end game starts and the survivor get's hooked, I trade with them since the killer Camps him. Then I get unhooked and.....Decisive Strike is deactivated because it's the endgame and I get tunneled again.
I don't understand how this change is fair. So the survivors gets punished because the killer wasn't able to spread pressure or hook me before?
Decisive Strike works only 1 time, is only activated for 60 seconds and deactivats itself anyway when you do a Action. Why this stupid "It's the end game so your perk is worthless" crap?
No, Decisive Strike during end game collapse guarantees escape. The stun and duration could use an increase. It should be a lot more impactful since you can only use it once and only if the killer tunnels you. As the killer, it should feel like you've made a huge mistake tunneling this survivor and a learning experience not to do that again. Right now, it's a two second stun, which depending on your killer ranges from being mildly inconvenient to basically doing nothing.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372524/decisive-strike-near-zero-value
It's not that bad but it could get buff make the timer 80s instead 60s. And the stun duration could be increased to 3,5s which otz suggested and well it could disable killer power for few seconds so nurse and blight would get bit punished.
A simple fix for nurse is to cause her to lose her charges when she gets stunned and they don’t start recharging until the stun animation ends.
Even when you pallet stun a Nurse (which is difficult to do) it doesn’t matter because she teleports through the wall/pallet and hits you anyways.
This would also fix DS being worthless against her.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402285#Comment_3402285
I think it's just easier for them to do heavy nerfs instead of reworking something, and a good example is ruin or the kick perks. Those perks were gutted and there really isn't a reason to run them anymore. Keep in mind these changes are for their meta shake-up. They are doing these nerfs to encourage players to use other things.
Yea but I literally used Ruin on every single build no matter what when normal skill checks caused it to explode. That was BUSTED. When survivors would tap the gens so they wouldn’t get skill checks.
I think we can all agree Behaviour is seriously lacking in the ability to balance a video game.
But I don’t think they are making these game breaking changes on purpose. They just need to listen to the players more.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402282#Comment_3402282
Tbh, OTR ought to get a nerf.
The endurance effect only works if the survivor doesn’t do a conspicuous action, so I welcome survivors to do nothing for 80 seconds. Don’t tunnel and OTR won’t do anything.
Sure they can follow you around and take a protection hit, but they aren’t doing gens/healing while they do that.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402273#Comment_3402273
But I don't think they want players running DS though. I think they want OTR to be the replacement for DS, and it would make sense with how much that perk was nerfed in 6.1.
Then why keep it in the game? Why not change it fundamentally into something new and different instead of leaving it as something you should not use? I’d like to think that Behavior doesn’t just nerf things so people don’t use them. That seems like actively hurting your own game on purpose.
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@Trollinmon said:
You're suppose to run OTR for your anti-tunnel needs. I see players play like it's comp in a good amount of my games and SB+OTR hard punishes them nearly every time. Honestly OTR with Sprint Burst is a busted perk combo that destroys old DS.
Just because OTR exists doesn’t mean DS should have low value. Yea, I agree that OTR is a lot better than DS. So make DS comparable in value added.
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402258#Comment_3402258
Yeah I could see this possibly working then, although I still think the perk still has good value but not too much though
And it wouldn’t effect end game collapse because DS deactivates
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@IWasLrft2Die said:
I see it in about 20% of games.
Old DS was way too much.
Every single survivor ran it (along with BT and DH) which made the gameplay stale and you as a killer would have to hit a survivor who was unhooked 1 for BT, 1 for a down, DS hits, 1 again for DH, and 1 more for the down. 4 hits on a survivor especially during egc was miserable as killer.
At most DS should get a couple more seconds in the stun but nothing beyond that. It's fine as it is
a couple more seconds is exactly what I’m suggesting, but only if the killer camps the hook.
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Decisive Strike. It’s useless right now. Since they nerfed it, in ALL my games I think I’ve seen it used twice against me and I immediately downed them afterwards. It’s a perk that gives you 5 extra seconds of chase, once per trial, but only if you get tunneled.
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Hook Suicide is disconnecting without penalties. Why the devs never did anything about it is beyond me. If you are going to suicide on first hook, don’t queue. Go play something else and let the remaining players actually enjoy the game.
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24 second base healing is chonky. It made certain anti healing builds stronger than they needed to be and against legion you only heal if you want a 30 minute game.
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@LollyGurl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393804#Comment_3393804
I don’t see how it’s going to be meta if they keep it an Exhaustion perk AND have a charge requirement that may never happen if you’re a better looper than the killer or get your 1st hook as the final survivor.
How meta is Decisive Strike these days?
I’d argue D-Strike will be stronger than Dead Hard if the latter goes live in this revised state.
The point is that Dead Hard’s Exhaustion aspect won’t interact with its charge requirement, being unhooked or self unhooking clears any Exhausted status and so keeping it an Exhaustion perk is purely to prevent its use alongside other Exhaustion perks and to interact with killer Exhaustion effects.
So why would anyone choose this twice nerfed Dead Hard over Mettle of Man or Off the Record or Styptic Agent?
Why not just use any other Exhaustion perk, none of which have charge requirements (beyond being healthy for Overcome) and can all activate every 40 seconds or less with (multiple) Vigils?
Having multiple activation requirements on a perk that isn’t even guaranteed to work in the first place isn’t balanced, nor will it stop those of my fellow killer mains who’ll keep complaining about Dead Hard as long as it exists in any form.
Everyone will run it if you remove the exhaustion requirement. It would become an extra health state that you get after every hook that you could also run with lithe/sprint burst. That's way too powerful my dude. Not running it would be like shooting yourself in the foot. It's not even a choice at that point.
With the exhaustion requirement, you have to choose, do you want one extra health state per hook, or do you want to be able to extend chases an extra 20 to 60 seconds depending on the map.
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@pigslittlepet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390709#Comment_3390709
Lol I'm not sure where you're from but I play both sides and the only thing overpowered about pain reso was it's interaction with dms. If your camping a hook for only a 20% regression without pressuring gens you're already losing.
No it's very strong. You get -15% total progress, not current progress like some perks. The live version also lets you hook the same person three times in a row, it procs each time and when they are sacrificed the team obviously loses 25% of their pressure. After the nerfs you'll only be able to get a total of 60% regression from this perk which may be a bit of an overkill when you compare it to other gen regression perks, but it also picks the gen with the highest progress and regresses that one which can be huge, especially if the gen is far away and the 15% regression gives you enough time to reach it and pressure it.
But if we look at the big picture, survivors also need more time to heal, so all gen regression technically is stronger because survivors can't stop the gen from regressing if they are too busy healing.
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@RaSavage42 said:
So there are perk that have some of those suggestions
Plaything: The Survivor affected by it will show the Hex Totem if within a range (I forget what it is and I'm too lazy to look it up)
Visionary, Daja Vu and Detective's Hunch: Each one of those perks show Gens if the conditions are met
Plus Killers don't run Hexes much anymore so that one won't do much
Yea I was just trying to add some things that the spirits could do, instead of just watching their friends play until the end of the match. I wanted people to feel like they are being helpful, even if it's not much, you know?
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@pigslittlepet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390688#Comment_3390688
If they wanted to reward killers for spreading hooks you could do something with pain reso instead of killing the perk. Buff it to 20% but it only activates if you hook a different survivor than the previous hook. It might be hard to code this but some tweaks could make it viable. You could do this with other perks as well. Buff their effects but only if the trigger event is with different survivors and not the same one over and over again.
I'm a killer main though I do play survivor maybe twice a week.
Pain Res is too strong. It needed the nerf. If you made it work as you suggest it would make more sense to hook the same two survivors back to back. Which would not be hard. You would simply camp the hook and wait for the unhook, as soon as it happens, you trade with the unhooked survivor and then tunnel the guy that just came off the hook. In that regard Pain Res would function almost exactly as it does now but would incentivize tunneling and camping instead. 😅
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390693#Comment_3390693
Because they are another player with free will who can chose to do a tactic to win the game.
If you want to punish killers for doing their objective, then let's punish survivors everytime they do a gen. Give survivors stacking slowdown so they repair, heal, bless, cleanse, and even move slower for each gen done.
That doesn't really stop camping or tunneling. Back to your previous suggestion of rewarding killers for not tunneling...
A perk that does that would need to do something like; after you hook three different survivors, all survivors lose 25% healing speed, gen repair speed, etc to even begin to compete with tunneling. Can you imagine? Everyone would use this one perk. It would be ridiculously more powerful than any other perk in the game. That is how powerful tunneling is as killer. It's literally that perk, but everyone gets it by default as a core mechanic.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390686#Comment_3390686
It's the killer's objective to kill survivors. Punishing them for doing so is the bad way.
If you truly want to tackle tunneling, suggest ways to reward killers for spreading hooks so that spreading out hooks become the favorable way to play.
Killers will still do it, because there's no reward/perk/addon that you can give that is as powerful as removing 25% of the teams collective healing, gen progress, totem removal, etc. That was my opening argument.
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@Crowman said:
No.
I get it's not fun to be the first one out of a match, but that is the objective of the otherside. It makes no sense for the survivors to get a benefit for the killer accomplishing their objective.
It's more so the killer gets punished for targeting one survivor and removing them as early as possible.
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@Mccormick213 said:
Finally. Toxic killers who waste time by not hooking survivors largely solved.
Start a debuff of X% after 20 seconds of not Hooking a dead Survivor. Progressively increases every Y seconds (10 seconds or so).
Alternatively, make work of (perma-)banning these killers.
Thanks!
Slugging is a valid way to play the game. There are perks like knockout and deerstalker which help you do it better.
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@Hex_TunnelBait said:
There are definitely interesting things they could do. They could make it so that a toolbox can be used to disarm Trapper's traps without making noise (not full sabotage like before), or toolboxes can use charges to repair locker locks when Dredge breaks them. Medkits can use charges to slow Plague's infection build-up, but not recover health while infected.
Yea there’s many different cool ideas they could try but instead all of these interactions are being cut from the game… why….
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
There was nothing interesting about most of these mechanics though. Getting burned as Wraith wasn't overpowered but it was very annoying. Burning Artist's crows just made her feel worse to play for no good reason. And the amount of difference having a flashlight vs. not having a flashlight made against Hag and her traps was dumb.
It feels rewarding from the survivor’s point of view. I rarely play survivor, but on the off chance that I bring a flashlight and get to burn the Wraith it does feel awesome. Especially against Wraiths that don’t know how to zig zag to prevent the burn.
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They didn’t say anything about the Nemesis. I think they forgot you can blind his zombies. It makes a HUGE difference against him.
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I’m so glad this is happening! At least 3/4 survivor’s run this perk every single game. It’s an extra health state that you can use infinitely. It’s broken.
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I convinced my wife to play some survivor today and we played against the Skull Merchant. She camped a three gen at the end. Only had three hooks when we reached that point.
It took so long to get the last gen. We did it by trading who would take the claw trap each time she came by. But this mostly aggravated her because we were only getting the gen to around 30%.
At some point she decided to commit to me because I made a mistake and got hit where prior to that I had escaped every chase against her. I took her to the opposite corner of the map which allowed my wife to finish the last gen. We escaped.
Had the Skull Merchant continued placing bots instead of chasing me, I’m confident that she could have stalled the game indefinitely.
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I had a game against blight where me and another survivor looped him for five gens, without getting hooked once. Then he hit one of us after the fifth gen popped and he had noed. He ended up downing all of us, because there were three of us very close to him when it happened.
NOED gives free wins to killers. It’s like adrenaline. Sometimes it does nothing. Other times, it scoops you up, repairs your broken limbs and carries you to a victory you never deserved.
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@Tsulan said:
And how would you propose to nerf that?
Remove his chainsaw charges if he camps. Done. Move on to the next killer.
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How will I aggressively nod in hooked survivor’s camera?
But seriously, you can proxy camp a hook from pretty far away.
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I could see there being a perk where you collect the wood from broken pallets to construct a new pallet.
For example; collecting wood from 3 broken pallets would let you make a new pallet. Creating the pallet would have an animation and skill checks. Failing a skill check would produce a loud noise notification and the pallet breaks.
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My games are long AF. Everyone are gods at looping so I have to grind out kills over 20 to 30 minutes then hope I find hatch first.
I’ve recently been getting some really nice plays with Knight where I punish survivors who overextend and end up with multiple hooks at the same time.
Those are fun, but survivors easily reset if you aren’t pressuring hard.
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@Gandor said:
There are ways to punish it hard.
So long that killers don't convince devs it's good idea that 3 other survivors that cannot do anything but gens should do them for 5 minutes/gen so that killers have nice long camping games (something popping up here in threads all the time), it's pretty balanced. Especially if somebody not on hook brought reassurance (and then it's up to you to not go down close to basement).
So overall if you know what to do, facecamping killer can actually get 0K just thanks to the fact, that he facecamped someone (you trade on hooks, ideally using reassurence as much as possible and you get the last one out by adrenaline or by outplaying said huntress at least once or by WGLF/unbreak/deli/DH/soul guard/flashlight save/sabo save).
Like I don't consider camping that big of a problem. Like it's noninteractive. It's generally boring. But you as survivor team still have an option. It's much harder considering tunneling (and devs deciding for some reason to promote said strategy by hard-nerfing DS into uselessness and giving back joke-perk OTR as a substitute that can be deactivated by real tunneling killer within 1s of unhook).
Oh yes, lets hope everyone brought reassurance on the off chance that we get one of these games.
@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375242#Comment_3375242
Well looking at your huntress example specifically it just takes 2 people because she can only carry 1 hatchet lol
Yea you have to trade to unhook. The killer does zero work, requires zero skill. They stand there, and collect a kill or multiple hooks.
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@Emeal said:
Insta-down addons that a very easy to pull off has always been in poor taste in this game imo. Iridescent Head and Redhead's Pinkie Finger are really strong and the drawback isn't really making them fun. Iridescent addons should change the power in fun and interesting ways while giving a slight advantage.
These days those addons just means its gonna be, ONE OF THOSE GAMES.
Exactly. The best thing you can do is try to do as many gens as you can and hope that when you trade you only trade for 1 and not 2 hooks.
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@Gandor said:
Huntress is the least oppresive from the quad problematic killers. Bubba, Billy and pinky clown are much worse. I would even argue trickster is worse in this regards (even though he does not need his insta-addon). Runner up is basement trapper - but that one is by far not as free (and works by locking up basement for potential 4K if survs decide to rescue).
So to sum up - I don't think huntress needs to be specifically looked at in this regards. Fix Billy, Bubba and Clown facecamps and the rest is just advantageous position for killer (on the other hand, buff chase billy)
I disagree. Standing in front of the hook until the survivor dies should not be a valid 'strategy'.
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@Justa335i said:
Ok, what about a facecamping bubba or hillbilly?
Same concept, except huntress has to reload and NEEDS this add-on.
GG go next.
Those are also oppressive. Bubba should lose all his charges when near a hook for too long and Hilly Billy should have his chainsaw overheat if he stays near a hook for too long. It's not fun for the person on hook and it's not fun for the rest of the team that have to let them die. And I don't know how it can be fun for the killer who goes AFK with thier face glued to the hook.
Like I said. Please actually play the game you are building. This is unprofessional of you, Behaviour.
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@Seraphor said:
The change doesn't need to be made to Decisive Strike. It needs to be made to the killer's power, on a case-by-case basis.
There's more than just DS that's ineffective against Nurse and Blight, every method of stun is just as pointless.
Keep DS at 3 seconds, or maybe buff to 3.5 or 4 seconds. But then you address killer powers and implement a stun penalty on their power use and recharge.
Nurse: Upon being stunned loses all her charges and her recharge becomes 5s per charge instead of 3s.
Blight: Upon being stunned loses all his tokens and his recharge becomes 3s per token instead of 2s.
Spirit: Upon being stunned loses all her charges. (it already takes 15s anyway)
Not only does this increase the value of DS against these killers, but it also increases the value of pallet stuns and Head On.
Spirit has an addon that instantly recharges her power when she is stunned.
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@CookieBaws said:
These guys can kinda ignore pallets and vaults. But why when survivors drops a pallet, their pathing just goes crazy for no reason.
The devs use Unreal Engine to develop DBD which comes equipped with an AI system. It uses Behaviour Trees and Blackboards. They probably forgot to handle pallets which are in the “dropping” state in their Behaviour Tree.
If you notice, pallets which are already dropped will be walked through by guards while pallets which are dropped during chase will be considered impassible by guards. The guards think that pallets in the dropping state are impassable.
They either did this on purpose to cover up a bug or just forgot about this and now they don’t want to fix it.
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1) I don’t care about blood points. I don’t even spend mine anymore. I will tunnel you.
2) Usually I will try to hook near the gens I am defending. Having someone on hook for a long period of time is great for me because there’s only three or less survivors who can do gens. I don’t think the amount of time a survivor spends on the hook has any effect on their being tunneled. Also it would probably be extremely boring to sit on a hook all game.
The true problem is that the moment I tunnel you out of the game, your team loses 100% of gen progress out of the collective 400%. That’s a HUGE debuff. Nothing here that you’ve suggested addresses that, so people will continue to tunnel, because it’s the optimal play.
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Yes nerf everything that isn’t a gen kicking perk
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365709#Comment_3365709
COH also got the nerf where it removed the stacking of 2 or 3 COHs from the PTB and let’s also not forget it used to be a 28 meter range on the PTB as well, which also nerfed Shadowstep in the process.
Also about your point where the other boons are balanced, that’s not necessarily true. Dark Theory and Exponential are really bad. Dark Theory almost has no uses and Exponential is so situational that you’re always better off running Unbreakable, Tenacity, or Soul Guard as an anti slug perk.
Because people were healing to full in less than half a second.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365700#Comment_3365700
No it hasn't. It was nerfed twice; the first nerf reduced the healing speed bonus when healing someone else or being healed by someone else to 75% and the second nerf reduced the healing speed bonus to 50%.
It's overpowered because it's an infinite use medkit that the whole survivor team can use.
All the other boon perks are balanced by the fact that they are situational and their positioning has to be factored in to get the most use out of them. That does not apply to CoH which is good wherever you put it. The only time CoH ISN'T useful is if you go up against the Plague.
I agree, the core problem with the perk is that it gives everyone on the team an infinite use medkit and they never addressed that. And they’ve simply left it that way without even saying anything.
A solid reminder that Behaviour is terrible at balancing their games.
The perk doesn’t really help unless it started showing boon auras. Deaf players can’t hear the direction or closeness of the boon totem so it may as well be invisible.
As a killer, the solution to CoH is to tunnel people out of the game. They can’t heal with CoH if they are being chased until death.