ratcoffee
ratcoffee
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padded jaws let you get 2 STBFL stacks off of one survivor while also letting you save stacks on the obsession, and one or two downs with traps can win you a game
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375490#Comment_3375490
If you can tell me the actual number of times that youve proven you went against a scripter let me know
Ill give you 5$ if theres more than 3
well it's quite simple, i'm good so i would never, ever swing into dead hard (there is no possible way and this is totally not just cope)
since i'm a literal god at the game and infalliable, anyone who outplays... erm, i mean cheats against me must have been using auto DH
All jokes aside, I have recently become somewhat more sympathetic towards killer players who are frustrated by dead hard; after using it a bit, there are a lot more scenarios than I initially imagined where just having low ping virtually guarantees a DH usage if the killer is on autopilot. The killer still has tools to outplay most DH, but it does suck to have to be paying that extra bit of attention every second of the game.
Auto DH complaints are still overblown though. certainly the scripts exist, but i think they're nowhere near as popular as people think they are
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honestly i think it's not survivor gen speed perks that are causing gens to seemingly go faster, it's a combo of the following:
-BP costs reduced, so people have more toolboxes and addons
-Passive slowdown perks got nerfed, so killer players need to actively involve themselves in doing slowdown to get it
-Killer in general got buffed (and survivor got nerfed), so survivor players who would often waste time on side objectives have gotten more focused on hitting gens (otherwise sacrifice feels basically guaranteed)
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of all the things you could possibly "both sides" in this game i think lobby-shopping is the one that is possibly the most ridiculously illogical to try to "both sides" about. i'm genuinely befuddled as to how you think survivors have any role in lobby shopping beyond looking scary to some killers
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in games like DotA and LoL, it's taken as a given that you have access to basically all the same information as your teammates. in a game that, for the survivor, is based on achieving progress on objectives that have progress bars, it makes sense to have at least a decent amount of information about what objectives your team is, or is not, advancing.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
Firstly survivors complain about camping and tunneling and get basekit perks for it. Then about slugging and make the devs consider a basekit Unbreakable. Then gen regression (which the killer earns by downing and hooking survivors), and a lot of good gen regression perks get nerfed. Now the new complaints are about 3 genning. What do you want the killer to do lol? Not use any strategy what so ever and mindless chase random survivors for hooks and lose? The excuse is "30 min games aren't fun" but guess what, you aren't entitled to 10 min matches, or the killer making the match more fun and easy for you. And the worst part is, the 3 gen rage quits will be rewarded by some killer nerfs, again.
P.S Yes it's an "us vs. them" post. Anything else you notice other than that Sherlock?
i managed to 8hook a survivor team before a single gen got done in my last killer game
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i'm pretty sure DC is Supposed to count as a sacrifice and it's just broken - at least the dev statement said that it would count for the purposes of adept, but adept is broken right now so who knows?
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364085#Comment_3364085
It's true, maybe these arguments are contradictory because they're coming from different people. Maybe person A is saying "Just wait it out 4Head" and person B is saying "DH creates an intricate mindgame that is good for the game".
But here's the thing; y'all have very fundamentally different beliefs, and you're so passionate about them that you'll jump on any thread which voices even a hint of disagreement, and yet you're always yelling at me and never yelling at each other. And often, on a long enough timeline, if I keep arguing with person A, they'll eventually make a person B argument, and vice versa.
It kinda seems like you're playing games, and I'm the opposing team, and anyone who's against me is your ally. And you're not really taking a position, but rather claiming to believe in whatever would need to be true in order to score points against me.
But I digress. The claim I'm talking about is "Dead Hard is fine". Or if you prefer, "Dead Hard doesn't need to be deleted". Because that's what this whole argument boils down to, in the end; we can tackle individual supporting arguments until the end of time, but with a claim as broad as "Dead Hard is fine", at what point do you throw in the towel and say "Dead Hard is not fine"? Because you can always move the goalposts and come up with more rationalizations for why Dead Hard must still be fine no matter how many individual arguments are debunked. For reference, see my OP.
Okay, so DH is a zero-sum game. It's a pure 50/50 for who wins the mindgame. And indeed, tournament-level Killers seem to M1 into DH roughly 50% of the time when the surv isn't Exhausted.
Ignoring that second-guessing every swing you make and waiting behind the Survivor is incredibly unfun gameplay, here's the other problem: The mindgame isn't happening in a vacuum. The existence of DH changes how the Killer must approach every other aspect of the chase. Suddenly you can't lunge or use your power anymore, and that can be very costly. Schrodinger's Dead Hard allows Survivors to make it to pallets or windows when they'd otherwise be dead to rights, and that can extend chases considerably even before E has actually been pressed.
Anyone who's played Killer for any length of time knows that the difference between a lunge and a quick swing can easily be the difference between a hit and a pallet stun, so a chase where lunging is not viable can easily go on for an extra 15 seconds or more. And again, all this is happening BEFORE Dead Hard actually comes out in the chase. Which is one reason why, as in the matches shown, skilled Killers will often say "#### it" and not really bother playing around DH. Which kinda negates the whole point of the perk.
Look, I wouldn't be as harsh on Dead Hard if Survivors had no other good options in terms of perks, but they do have other options. There's no shortage of good Exhaustion perks out there, and the number can only grow as time goes on. And dodging an attack with a 99'd Sprint Burst or walking 40 seconds in chase is way more impressive to me than pressing a button.
you see, those are reasons I do think we need to look at why DH is so powerful and how it can be tweaked to be less of a looming threat, because I too think DH is too strong right now, as it is. I just disagree with the sentiment that DH needs to be deleted from the game - there's a good place for a perk that allows you to situationally avoid one instance of damage when played right. the one we have right now is slightly-to-moderately too good at it. your initial "arguments," if you could call them that, were weak. this post was much stronger and more reasonable.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363628#Comment_3363628
See, this is what I'm talking about. When I take the things you say at face value, I can't form a coherent belief system out of them. Do you believe that the counterplay to DH is simple and anyone who swings into it is just a noob, or do you believe DH is an intricate mindgame that makes the game better and more healthy at the highest skill level (Despite the legions of Killer players who absolutely hate it)? The two arguments are pretty incompatible with one another, yet people seem to switch between them like it's nothing depending on which is more rhetorically convenient at the moment.
And that ties into a much bigger problem: Your claim is unfalsifiable. No matter who you are or how good you are or whether you won or lost against DH, there's always some new rationalization for why DH must still be fine. Statistics don't matter. The opinions of bad Killer players, good Killer players, and top-tier Killer players don't matter. The consensus of the Killer community at large doesn't matter. Whether you win or lose against it doesn't matter. There's literally no pleasing you no matter what I say or what evidence I put forward or whom I cite, and I'm supposed to take you seriously?
Put yourself in my shoes for a moment and say for the sake of argument that Dead Hard really is a problem. How would you go about proving that? Because you've dismissed every possible source of facts and evidence I could use to back up my opinions with.
As it turns out I have never said that "the counterplay to DH is simple and anyone who swings into it is just a noob" or anything remotely close to it, because I don't believe that. I said that everyone makes mistakes, including high-level killers. The reason you can't form a coherent belief system from what you think I've said, is because you've either seen things other people have said and falsely attributed them to me, or just imagined me saying things I didn't.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "my claim" is unfalsifiable - specifically which claim are you talking about? You said you couldn't discern a coherent set of beliefs from (what you imagined were) my arguments, how would you then know what claim I was making, much less know if that claim could be proven wrong?
The reason I reacted in the specific way I did is because your original thread about Oni and this followup one show both a lack of respect for survivor players and a lack of attention to the counterplay on both sides with the game you chose to highlight. Your post is honestly a much milder example than other posts I've seen; from the way I've seen other killer players talk about it you'd think DH was like Mettle of Man without the protection hit requirements, activates whenever you would be knocked down.
With regards to respect to survivor players, consider your idea that top-level players hitting a DH as being astronomically unlikely (or whatever your specific phrasing was). Keep in mind the fact that when I say "Just wait it out" I mean it not as a sure-win strategy but as a general philosophical approach to chases, and think about the following: It's an inaccuracy for a killer to swing into Dead Hard, but it is similarly an inaccuracy to mistime a DH as a survivor. Going in for a hit on an injured survivor with DH is a zero sum game where whoever wins the read, wins the interaction. Why is it that you assume that a Killer hitting a DH would be so unlikely, but a survivor mistiming a DH would not be? Is a top level killer just inherently better at the game than a survivor?
As far as the game you chose to highlight, you need to consider that DH excels in countering hits that need to come within a certain time frame, such as Nurse's blink, Blight's rush, or also Oni's demon dash. Mechanically speaking, DH does counter that part of Oni's power; on some level, I do understand how that would be frustrating to face, but I honestly think that's the best use case scenario for the perk, avoiding a highly projected hit. You also need to keep in mind that in order to keep DH available to use it against Oni power, the survivor has to stay injured (since the dash is an insta-down), meaning by keeping your perk available you're feeding Oni his power faster. I would argue that the two demon dash DH hits were perfectly healthy for the game and fine, because they have the same mechanic as Plague of choosing between healing up and giving a power spike, or denying the power but staying broken. Given that 2 of the DH's the Oni hit were basically unmissable but came at other costs, I think it's reasonable to say the Oni only got outplayed on 2 DH, one of which was basically just him being unlucky and losing a couple coin flips by happening to chase the person who had the perk without knowing.
That said, I do think it is worth looking at ways of limiting DH to primarily counter those "easily anticipated hits" and being less oppressive right under pallets and so on, and to be less powerful when you don't know your opponent has it. I mainly object to way in which you hyperfocus on the way it negatively impacts killers while ignoring the skill expression of survivors, ignoring the ways survivors can mess it up, and ignore the ways in which killers can't always guarantee bypassing DH but can at least buy themself more of a chance.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363252#Comment_3363252
If countering DH was really as simple as people made it out to be, tournament-level Killers getting hit by it would be a rare celestial event that you'd be shocked to see, not a routine occurrence that happens twice a match on average, even when there's just one Dead Hard on the entire team.
"Just wait it out" is not remotely difficult. Waiting requires no precise inputs, no aiming, no fake-outs.
So why do tournament-level Killers swing into Dead Hard? Because countering DH is nowhere near as simple as that.
obviously countering dead hard isn't as simple as a single 4-word catchphrase.
its almost like you wrote an entire thread worth of ways in which dead hard is not overpoweringly oppressive, and that "just wait it out" is only one that applies to only some of the many situations you could go to. if you want a game where you can always counter a certain strategy in the same exact way, play rock-paper-scissors.
listing valid counterarguments and then saying "/s" at the end as if they weren't valid isn't an argument, it's whining that you're not capable of doing the very valid counterplay and making it other people's fault
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everyone makes mistakes, for instance, when that tournament Oni swung into DH, or when you posted a video of someone swinging into DH a bunch of times and still winning in that other thread as evidence that DH is somehow overpowered. when someone makes a mistake it doesn't mean that it's impossible for them to not make mistakes, just that they did in that one instance
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The best way to avoid a depip is to maximize point gain for the lightbringer emblem, and the best way to do that is to cooperatively do gens and intentionally miss skill checks. If you solo a gen you get 100 points regardless of how many skill checks you miss. If you coop a gen, you each get 50 points, but you can both get an additional 5 points for every missed skill check (10% progress lost means 5% more potential progress for each survivor. also, if you 99 all the gens you can get extra points. it's not ideal, very hard to communicate in solo queue, and probably should be changed, but for now it's your best shot.
If the killer has a terror radius, you can sit next to them for a little while and get some Evader pips as well, but unfortunately it doesn't work if the killer is undetectable. honestly BHVR should change that so it's just "time spent near killer" instead of specifically within their terror radius.
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@Monlyth said:
...Here's two tournament-winning Oni performances where the Oni swung into it. Four times total. Twice with his power, and twice with M1. Yes, in a setting where only one player is allowed to have it. Yes, even after seeing which Survivor has it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YoJQyoh5ac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72F-slds7oY
This guy got first place in the DbD community cup. Twice.
So, are you really going to lecture me about how this was clearly a skill issue?
people on this forum will really just post anything
so the team he was playing against, which was a high-caliber coordinated team with voice chat, managed to use their perk correctly not 1, not 2, but 4 times, and he still managed to beat them. so you're saying the perk that did not change the outcome of the match in favor of the team that used it should be nerfed, because they got to use it multiple times. really? that's your argument?
i think there are absolutely tweaks that could make DH slightly more fair, but "this team that lost was able to use it multiple times" is just so, so ridiculously poorly thought out.
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i don't ragequit on any killer, but i think the reason people do it is that he's extremely boring to play against. get to a loop, he drops his power, forced to leave the loop and hold w, get to another loop, repeat. more experienced players in particular like games where they have a lot of options; knight just erases tiles and leaves one option
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@Moz said:
In this game the best defense is offense. There are just too many resources currently in the game and with the current meta it's too difficult to win by attrition consistently. I try to build up very heavy pressure ASAP. I have removed corrupt for lethal on most of my killers. Just depending on how strong their map control is. Perks like: no way out, remember me, blood warden and NOED are not particularly great '2nd chance perks' because they all have hard counters and provide zero utility mid match unlike survivor's 2nd chance perks.
The only decent end game perk I can think of is Devour hope, but that is high risk/ high reward and only really effective on certain killers. You could argue that it isn't even an end game perk because it at least has mid-game utility.
STBFL would like a word
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this reminds me of me learning to play League and complaining that [whoever i was going against] was op before realizing that no, i just wasn't as good as i thought i was, and all the youtube videos i watched weren't enough to become a top tier player, i needed muscle memory too
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its gonna be the same bug as the adepts
i got this achievement back when it was double pip requirement and i'm pretty sure i used fearmonger to get it, so i don't think using former demo perks is a no-go
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358493#Comment_3358493
Now I can say 100% sure I didn't get points from repairs as it happened again. I fixed bit a gen at start and got 500 bp then later fixed another gen with other survivor and I should got 2000 bp at least from that but I only got 500 in end screen.
dang that's messed up they should fix it. hoping you get justice brother 😔✊
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i stg half of the killer players on this website think DH activates whenever you take a hit while injured instead of having to be manually activated. you have to hit a 0.5 second timing window, people
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they were before my time but i heard legion was pretty bad. i think you didn't stop frenzy if you hit someone already in deep wounds, and deep wounds ticked down whenever you weren't in chase, so legion could just moonwalk near a survivor and force them to either bleed out or mend and then go down anyway
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i think you're supposed to. i've had killers disconnect within seconds of loading in and i got the points for the repairs i'd done up to that point without letting go.
that was from a different patch though so maybe they changed it? maybe you're supposed to and it's just bugged?
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357751#Comment_3357751
Because not being able to see is such great fun.
it really is, first of all because it means the survivor is still in my vicinity so i can get more chase in, and second because i love using cues other than seeing the survivor in order to track them, and being forced into a situation where that's the only option is fun. its why i also enjoy playing spirit so much, triangulating an injured survivor and downing them directly out of phase feels so gratifying
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@BougieBlackChick said:
Makes sense. If their bonus is 100% more killers are gonna log on to play and that includes the hard campers, tunneled etc. so you’ll likely get more of that
honestly i think it's the other way around. the bonus BP follow whatever role is less played. if the bonus is 100% killer, it's because there are fewer killer players on
the reason i think it happens this way is the following: when the bonus is +100% BP for killers, the bonus is there because there are fewer killer players overall. When there are fewer killer players overall, that means the few people who bothered to play killer are people who are more dedicated to the killer role; people who are more likely to put in maximum effort while playing as killer. therefore, a higher percentage of the killer players are tryharding, and you are more likely to encounter one of those killers.
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@Nazzzak said:
I'm pretty sure my country connects to an Asian server, as I play with a lot of people with Asian usernames. Sometimes they show up like that. I think it might be symbols or characters that your game isn't recognising for some reason.
Doubling this. If the font your game uses doesn't have a particular symbol, it replaces it with a star.
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-you always get perks if you have perks to still unlock
-according to the P100s I know, you're guaranteed to get 2 pink items, addons or offerings every bloodweb once you're prestige 100 level 50
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lot of killer mains in this thread who have never played a game of survivor in their life and it shows. misunderstandings of core gameplay mechanics such as mending and exhaustion from a survivor perspective, accusations of widespread cheating by their opponents (the most common cope for boosted players in all games), and not understanding that a 0.5 second timing window to use a perk is much tighter than the 30 second to several minute timing window to take advantage of eruption.
i could probably count on one hand the number of games i've run DH, and on the other hand the number of games i've used Eruption. I don't like relying on crutch perks; another thing I don't like is just how bad some of the arguments people have about those two perks can be.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
Losing a hard won hook and just not being able to see is a miserable experience. Is there a Killer who likes being blinded at pallets?
I'll wait for heavy flashlight users who say they are "easy to dodge."
i like being blinded at pallets, i have headphones so it means the survivor isn't making distance as i track their footstep sounds
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they changed flashlights so that you can't click them super fast any more. because of this, you can't release your flashlight for a frame if you realize you started slightly too early, so they added a buffer window to compensate. because of that buffer time, that means a lot more people are able to pull off flashlight saves than before
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@TOFFU said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354935#Comment_3354935
Pain res DMS us not working...
Dms is 99.9% of survs avoid by voice or Hud
sounds like survivors have learned the skill of... waiting it out
(pain res still regresses a gen like 12 or 15% - i forget which - and survivors still need to let go of the gen if you go to them and force them off it, which can prevent survivors from getting back on a gen if you disrupt multiple people on the same gen, so even if you can't always get the combo 100% of the time you can still get massive value from both perks)
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I still see people using old meta stuff like UB+DS combo, self care without botany, BBQ but clearly not taking advantage of the aura reading, undying ruin pop, etc. i'm sure some people are gonna keep running it if only because they're used to it, they didn't bother to pay attention to the changes, or they couldn't put in the effort to come up with a new build.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354935#Comment_3354935
"Strong killer option" or "Only killer option"? It's obviously the second, pain resonance/DMS is the only option now, well until Devs destroy this two perks, because survs will complain of the combo, devs won't test it to see if it's actually broken and unhealthy for the game, and they will destroy even this. Devs do this, they don't play their own game at top rank or if they play they play in private matches.
Without blocking the gen, eruption remove 10% that is 9 seconds for a surv alone, ALONE, at top mmr there aren't survs that make gens alone, at least 2 per gen. So 1 is in chase, the other genrush with prove thyself, so where are the advantages of using eruption if it doesn't give time AFTER the down? (I specify after because lots of people said that eruption goes in combo with dms, because this community know very well perks and doesn't even know that dms activates only after an hook). Consider you down someone, gens explode with eruption, survs still repair that gen, time to hook someone that gen is popped because you don't kick gen at 0% or at 5%, you kick gen above 50%, so that gen loose 10% that is insta recovered by the time of the hook, even if you have pain resonance survs stop repairing, pain resonance activate, they keep repairing. Time to go to that gen, gg ez repaired. Wow, eruption remain a broken perk, is still strong, sure bro.
why is it when you provide evidence that someone might be off in their analysis, instead of adjusting their opinion they say the same wrong thing again but louder
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354810#Comment_3354810
Dead Hard being an on demand third health state is a horrible mechanic that should never have been part of the game, but we’re still dealing with it.
good thing it's not an "on demand" third health state then. survivors can't press the killer's m1 button for them, they gotta wait until they think the killer's gonna swing. takes two to tango.
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killer players calling swf "abuse" meanwhile i'm here laughing at my friends in VC because they messedu up a headon play for the 4th time this game and are on an express trip to their death hook
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(As someone who plays 80% survivor 20% killer) I will say now, as I have ever, that they should have kept eruption the way it was pre-buff. 6% instant regression and 16 sec incapacitated is slightly more than 10% regression, which is great especially for hitting multiple gens. It was a perfectly fine perk that was overshadowed by other, too-strong at the time slowdown perks. An eruption working the same way with those numbers would be fair and balanced IMO and i'm kind of annoyed they changed it.
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@illNicola said:
I will stop using it. It's useless now, 10% is nothing, is like 1 or 2 seconds if survs play efficiently. I agree that incapacitated was too much, because no one used it for blocking people from healing for example. Everyone used it to stop survs from working on gens, so why making it useless (basically a Nurse perk thanks to aura reading) instead of removing incapacitated and put "block all gens that explode"?
Honestly, I will drop it and I will start using again pain resonance + dms, well until devs destroy these two perks as well because survs will also complain about these as they always did for everything that benefits killer a minimum (see pop, ruin, Billy and other things that doesn't come to mind now)
i don't know what's funnier, the suggestion that 10% gen progress is "like 1 or 2 seconds" or complaining about devs "destroying" good perks and using Pain Res/DMS (which got nerfed way long ago but then they reverted back - it's literally the best example of the devs keeping strong killer options in the game) as your example.
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@FengShuiExe said:
No seriously.
Unless you really need that fourth perk, just run light born. It fits any build, can counter survivors really well, even has a chance to beat 2 survivor perks. They brought a flashlight? How wasteful of them! Best of all, you only need it at tier 1! Forget tiering it up, that's for chumps... just prestige once billy and your done. Best perk for all killers.
gonna have to hard disagree; bringing Infectious Fright alerts you there are survivors nearby to avoid flashlight saves and everything else the perk brings is countered by survivors choosing to do gens instead.
i occasionally bring lightborn because the intentional stare into a futile flashy blind attempt is a funny troll, and it sometimes can work as a good info perk with the aura reading, but there are far better perks to have as your bread-and-butter.
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Endurance only gets consumed if the attack would have sent them from the injured to the dying state. You're not wasting BT in that scenario, but understand that BT only lasts 20 seconds even with the Bill perk, and it takes 7 seconds to heal them up, so that means they have 13 seconds after the heal to get hit twice to get value out of it before the BT timer expires, which would be pretty difficult.
Now, if the survivor has Off The Record, that gives them a full minute of endurance, and that might get some use
@wydyadoit said:
Endurance is lost if you take an action or are acted upon.
Endurance is lost only if you take a conspicuous action. It is not cancelled if someone else takes action on you. If someone starts healing you after an unhook and then the killer comes back, you can still get the endurance hit.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353365#Comment_3353365
comparing progress on generators with 5 gen completions being the end win condition, to hooks on survivors with 12 hooks being the win condition is bad math and bad game sense in a whole lot of ways
-as survivors complete gens, there are less gens to do, meaning the killer has a smaller area to patrol and safeguard
Only if the killer still has a defensible gen setup.
-even once survivors get all the gens done, they still need to open the exit gate and then run out of it. particularly since OP is running 2 endgame perks, it feels silly to miss this fact.
Right, one endgame perk that is always played around and barely works out and another that might get one exposed down before it's cleansed. The only silly thing here is missing how the OP said that what they were doing was not working out for them.
-the killer doesn't need to get 12 individual hooks; they can get a 4k with 1 hook at end game and blood warden.
That's right, they can.....and barely ever do.
-when killers get hooks, that forces survivors to stop doing gens to go for a rescue, slowing down the progression of the survivor objective
Or they pop 3 gens, wait for you to leave your one hook, use reassurance, then continue cranking on less than 2 gens left with most pallets still up, or worse, they could also save bnp's for the last 2 gens.
i had a game not too long ago where i had 2 hooks with 1 gen left using an off-meta build and still managed to 4k without camping or tunneling (first sacrifice was at like 7-8 hooks) because there was a 3 gen in a dead zone; so no safety while working on gens. when i got Evil Incarnate, i gave up 3 gens before getting a single down, but i managed to get all 4 survivors with the mori before any more gens popped (without getting a single hook). if it's BS that survivors can get 3 gens done during one chase, it's also BS i was able to get 80% of my objective done while the survivors struggled to get their last 20%; that i was able to create such a swing after the survivors had completed a full half of their objective (or, we could admit that raw gen percentage vs raw hook state count is a bad metric. also tombstone is a bit broken)
Exactly, the only reason you could affect change against that group and stop them is because you were fortunate enough to be left with a defensible gen setup for the killer you played (Myers). Had you not had that very defensible 3-gen (and the op addon), I'm not sure things would have turned out the way they did.
i do thoroughly enjoy how most of your counterarguments rely on either pretending that a defendable gen setup is something that accidentally happens instead of being consciously played into by the killer, and assuming the killer has no capacity to adapt their game plan to the builds they and the survivors bring, or to the survivor's playstyle. anything that happens in the killer's game is just luck, there's no conscious choice to continue committing to, for example, keep chasing a survivor in an area with a good 3 gen setup so you can make that dead zone and make the eventual 3 gen unwinnable for survivors; there's no ability to consciously choose to go on a couple losing chases that will nevertheless grant you a massive power spike later in the match; you can't look at your build and analyze why it isn't working out, even. DBD is apparently just a series of uncontrollable events that happens to the killer, not a game that the killer has any level of participation or choice in.
edit:
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353398#Comment_3353398
See I don't think you are in the right though. If the ratio really was 8.3% for killers to 60% for survivors then killers wouldn't be able to win ever
And they do, there are 100s of streamers to prove that
I keep seeing you refer to "defensible gen setup" and i think thats the problem you are facing. You're focussing to much on gens
One of the best advices i got recently was to forget about the gens. It's not the gens that are the problem but the survivors fixing them.
Focus on keeping them busy rather then focussing on defending an area when you are outnumbered
If you down a survivor and see another one near, slug him and chase the other one. The slug can't work on gens, the one you are chasing can't work on gens and somebody who was working on gens has to stop to get the slug up. Two downs is better then one hook
Very often the first person i down is not the first person i hook, and very rarely do i actually lose 3 gens before my first hook that way
When chasing a survivor and you know on which gen the others are working try to zone the chase towards them. They either have to stop working on it or risk you peeling of to them.
Things like that.
I recently started playing Legion without perks and really focussing on chasing and keeping survivors busy and i've been doing way better then i was with full gen slowdown perks. To the point i thought perks were tied to mmr
this is also a great example of what i'm talking about. often you don't need to even worry about gens. i was able to get 5 bloodwarden kills across 2 games while intentionally "playing nice" (avoiding hooking the same survivor consecutively even if i accidentally found them healing) simply by prioritizing "get 2 hooks on everyone and make sure you're in chase when the last gen pops." am i saying i never get juiced and there are never games where i feel outplayed on every front? of course not. is it a tough process to learn how to keep up with stronger survivors while playing killer? absolutely. but pretending those don't exist or are out of your control as a killer player is a defeatist attitude
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OP, you're running a perk that only activates in the endgame and a perk that only activates when the gate is open. it's expected for you to lose a bunch of gens quickly and not perform as well in the beginning of the game, half of your build is tailored to endgame.
@Anti051 said:
It's not you.
Survs getting to 60% before the killer even gets to 8.3% is still one of the bigger ticket "BS" issues aside from map design.
On one hand, it just feels like crap that it can happen so easily, on the other hand, it's the biggest source of camping, tunneling and hard slugging in the game.
comparing progress on generators with 5 gen completions being the end win condition, to hooks on survivors with 12 hooks being the win condition is bad math and bad game sense in a whole lot of ways
-as survivors complete gens, there are less gens to do, meaning the killer has a smaller area to patrol and safeguard
-even once survivors get all the gens done, they still need to open the exit gate and then run out of it. particularly since OP is running 2 endgame perks, it feels silly to miss this fact.
-the killer doesn't need to get 12 individual hooks; they can get a 4k with 1 hook at end game and blood warden.
-when killers get hooks, that forces survivors to stop doing gens to go for a rescue, slowing down the progression of the survivor objective
i had a game not too long ago where i had 2 hooks with 1 gen left using an off-meta build and still managed to 4k without camping or tunneling (first sacrifice was at like 7-8 hooks) because there was a 3 gen in a dead zone; so no safety while working on gens. when i got Evil Incarnate, i gave up 3 gens before getting a single down, but i managed to get all 4 survivors with the mori before any more gens popped (without getting a single hook). if it's BS that survivors can get 3 gens done during one chase, it's also BS i was able to get 80% of my objective done while the survivors struggled to get their last 20%; that i was able to create such a swing after the survivors had completed a full half of their objective (or, we could admit that raw gen percentage vs raw hook state count is a bad metric. also tombstone is a bit broken)
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352869#Comment_3352869
My point was you don't have to hold back just to make sure you get silvers for Silver Age. You can overperform and still be fine.
oh i thought that was the 2 sacrifices and not the 4 hooks one
i guess it's still a bit of a grind but hooks after you close the hatch count, and "start a chase with 20 different survivors" is in the same tier as a 5 game minimum challenge
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@Nos37 said:
What I don't get is why some tome challenges are stricter than others.
Silver Age? I don't need silver emblems, I just need silver or better (how can it be a "Silver Age" when I have four Golds??).
Destroyer of Hope? I HAVE to "play bad" enough for the game to reach endgame and then get hooks. If I kill all 4 survivors before endgame, I make no progress.
i like that one tbh, got it in 1 go with bloodwarden bubba. got 8 hooks, "didn't notice" all the people working on a gen, downed someone just as it popped, waited until i figured the gates were about to open to pick up, boom, extra minute for the 3k (decided to be merciful to the feng because she was cute and was accidentally 2 of my first 3 hooks)
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352316#Comment_3352316
"Since his chapter release"
Ah yes, the Dead by Daylight chapter back in 2016
Also that footage isnt edited, its just really that audible.
I don't think you understand. egg_ wants you to take them as seriously as you should take anyone who says they have been playing since the trapper DLC dropped.
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i have said many times, and will say once again here, that Eruption was a perfectly good and balanced regression perk on release that was unfortunately overshadowed by a number of other OP slowdowns; and that they should bring it back to its previous power level.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352481#Comment_3352481
Eruption working as intended is fun for the killer. Eruption gets nuked. Dead Hard doesn't.
and i think the eruption nerf is overkill and they should bring it back to the on-release numbers
turns out "but what about x" isn't a good argument
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352460#Comment_3352460
If it works 30% of the time only, then it's still a badly designed perk. A perk that you use should work 100% of the time (not saying it should give you the value but it should work as intended). As I said, this whole argument doesn't affect you in the slightest. You get no value out of DH anyway, so why would you care if it gets completely demolished? Just bring a different perk and we're all happy.
With this "hail mary", as you call it, out of the way we could finally look at the actual issues this game has because then the killrates would not be depending on how well you can pull off the DH.
because it's fun when it does work. (at least i gather, i never run it but i sympathize with people who like it)
not sure how taking the skill expression out of the game would fix it?
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@Emeal said:
Everyone says this post is a joke, but honestly Survivors who get unhooked do not care about being spotted by the Killer.
Often the Survivors just think they should be allowed to escape for free, and If I don't comply I get angry steam comments or death threats. And then the forum has the gall to suggest that I am the person who needs to get punished.
Maybe if Survivors dont unhook, right next to the Killer, there would not be a chance to tunnel.
And Maybe If Survivors did gens when the Killers were camping would prevent that from being a useable strategy.
killers will sit next to hook and then say "don't unhook next to killer" bro just say you want free wins 😭😭😭
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what do you mean "give him some love" that could mean a lot of things. i mean i can "give him some love" but i'm not allowed to describe what i mean by that
...jokes aside, i think all he needs is to buff his stalking falloff so he can still get stalk decently quick at range and to have an addon pass that nerfs the tombstone options (i like the instakill but it shouldn't necessarily be available on survivors that haven't been hooked) and swaps out the more useless/redundant addons for more useful stuff (for instance, what if there was an addon that made survivors in your TR scream and alert you when you tier up)
@HommeBizarre said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352296#Comment_3352296
I want them to remove the efficiency while stalking
The farther the survivors are, the less you stalk fast
it already works that way
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351598#Comment_3351598
I do and I still can't meaning I'm either deaf or basically have an extremely old copy of the game.
darn yeah if you have hearing difficulties it might be a bit difficult to play this game in general, a lot of killers have subtle sound queues. most killers have loud breathing or footsteps or some other sound that can help a lot for figuring out distance or where they are through walls.
the game forces you to update if you want to play on live servers so it can't be the age of your copy of the game
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i get that you don't want to have to deal with dead hard, but turning it into "off the record but harder to use" is not the way to go. people are already complaining the upcoming survivor perks are going to be too similar to existing perks, we need to diversify the perk roster. (this is coming from someone who basically never runs dead hard as survivor and only rarely has trouble dealing with it unless i'm tilted and playing badly as killer)
make it so you can't do certain actions such as dropping a pallet within the 1 second after using DH. maybe also slightly reduce the speed boost from DH so there's still a solid chance you can down someone if they're in a deadzone
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350354#Comment_3350354
How can I use my eyes and hears when I can't see him because for someone reason a blur basically can blend in with dark maps and he doesn't make any noise I seriously can't hear him even with headphones.
he says "khrkn-hkrkra" a lot while in cloak maybe you should turn your game sounds up