pseudechis
pseudechis
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Hawkins lab.
Old moris maybe not original moris but at least one hook Moris. They made getting caught very scary.
BP stacks on perks like bbq and wglf.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
This is one of those very, very few moments whereby -as SoloQ - the odds are unfairly stacked. Sure, some will say "Bring Unbreakable", yet that's not helpful when you don't know how the match will pan out. These I can imagine are frustrating, yet I think this has only ever happened once to me.
However, if this became more widespread I can see BHVR return to the idea of basekit unbreakable, which isn't a great idea but would be needed if slugging gets worse. Players need to be aware of their actions as that ends up normally directing the game's flow in future shake-ups.
In this case, I can only empathise with you and say that I hope your future trials do not end in this type of clusterfudge.
The suggestion to bring unbreakable is a valid one regardless of how the match plays out.
People complain about being slugged and how it ruins their game, well there is a perk for that and if you don’t like being slugged you should probably bring it.
The same reason I run lightborn a lot. While you can avoid a flashy save it’s so much easier to not worry about it at all.
Does it always get use no, but I don’t like having to worry about flashlights so I often bring the perk.
If your gripe about the game is you hate being slugged then bring the perk that helps you evade being slugged.
If your gripe about the game is you hate everything and want to bring your choice build while avoiding anything the opponent might do that you hate, then your complaint isn’t very realistic.
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They both have stealth play make apply exposed so they are pretty equivalent.
Ghostface is a one trick pony though, his addons modify how things work a lil but its still the same shtick every game.
Myers' addons change up how he's played so while ghost face applies exposed a lil more efficiently and has continued stealth without addons, Myers has more versatility which I think increases his replay-ability in the long run over Ghostface.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411915#Comment_3411915
There's no tension if the survivor can see the killer who can see them going for the hook save, safe on the knowledge that the killer can't hit them without risking a hook trade.
And that's the thing, a hook trade on a healthy survivor is already in the killers favour. Removing hook grabs would guaranteed hook trades and the killer is still in the better position.
Meanwhile there's no reason to reward camping killers with free healthy downs for not leaving the hook. Hook grabs just give every killer the same camping power as Bubba, providing everyone plays a ridiculous game of chicken with each others ping.
You do make a fair point but they might as well remove hook grabs all together then because its only a foolish survivor who goes for the unhook injured and the killer doesn't need to bait the grab because you just whack and down the survivor regardless of what they are doing near the hook.
Trying to play around the hook and bait the grab is actually pretty interactive play. It also means you can't just rush the hook for an auto save, you need to apply some thought which isn't a bad thing.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411915#Comment_3411915
Idk if we are going based on setting and atmosphere, in those stories the killer/monster ultimately lose. So in a match that last one should escape hatch or something if you want to claim atmosphere.
The monster "wins" more often than you think and big number of stories have only one survivor at the end after a myriad of deaths, hence the old cliché of the "last girl".
The last survivor does have the hatch for that very reason. So it stacks up somewhat to scrutiny from a theme/atmosphere perspective.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411908#Comment_3411908
"Want to enjoy solo queue the first step is to accept that you are at the mercy of random variation amongst team mates."
I think that's why I don't hate soloq as much as other people seem to around here. I just the embrace chaos and accept the fact there will be times where I go "What the...?!" (often get a good laugh out of it) on the flip side there are many, many times I get a great team.
I also try not to judge too harshly. Even if someone totally screws up and costs us dearly. If I can see they at least try I don't get upset. Not to mention there a plenty of times I'm the one screwing up and I doubt many can claim they have never been there.
@Veinslay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411934#Comment_3411934
This is a good attitude to have, thanks. As long as my teammates try in solo queue, that's all I care about. How good they are doesn't matter that much to me. On the flipside, when I play killer, I hate it when people quit on their team. It's embarrassing to down a guy quickly with Pig and then he rage DCs ruining the game for everyone because Pig OP plz nerf
Yeah this is approaching the game with the right mindset.
I'm not saying things can't be tweaked to make coordinating as a solo a lil easier but it still takes the understanding that its gonna be a mixed bag.
You can always SWF, there are find other player threads on these forums but I have to admit I kinda enjoy playing solo survivor.
Everything feels a little more menacing and I can't always rely on other people, like a real survival horror experience.
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It adds an element of inherent risk to hook saves. All survivor activity should have some form of inherent risk in it.
You risk making noise and being found through actions.
You risk getting grabbed at vaults, lockers and hooks.
etc etc.
This creates the necessary tension to make survivor exciting and the killer threatening.
The fog is a scary place and you aren’t meant to feel safe in it. It’s your motivation to escape, it’s atmospheric, It’s a good thing.
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The real kicker is the thing you are trying to balance for in solo queue you really can’t balance for…. And that is the random nature of PUGs.
You may get four players with completely different ideas of what the game should be, what’s fun, how to play, levels of motivation to play and altruism.
So a team game requiring lots of coordination to excel, is relying on 4 strangers whom can’t directly communicate to work together as a team. Good luck.
This doesn’t get fixed by just buffing the hell out of individual survivors though because then they become unbeatable Uber heroes when they do work together.
Want to enjoy solo queue the first step is to accept that you are at the mercy of random variation amongst team mates.
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The game is still good and fun.
People complain about the same things they always complain about and you can’t go by the forums because this is the place people come to complain.
So complaining is a lil over represented here.
Last release was a bit weak though and I can’t say I’m a big fan of it.
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@indieeden7 said:
Don't know why people are acting very dismissive of this claim.
Basekit Myers is very weak, but much like Blight, he has add-ons that make him ridiculously strong. The obvious ones being mori add-ons that have the potential to completely delete a survivor a few minutes into a match.
In general, everything about him is outdated, his power is poorly designed, and his add-ons are poorly designed. Ideally, he gets a rework soon, hopefully sooner than later.
Actually his power is one of the best designs in the game. It requires careful play and planning and has some hard counters by survivors.
His addons also do exactly what addons should, they can completely modify his power changing how he’s played making him a varied and interesting killer. While his strongest addons are very strong but again come with drawbacks that can be countered by the survivors.
It’s not hard to counter Myers with a bit of game sense. It’s also not hard to leverage some of his more powerful addons to great advantage. He’s actually pretty well balanced in the grand scheme of things.
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Or does the threat of early elimination and constant pressure make the game more exciting?
One of the best and unique aspects of dbd is the uncomfortable finality of some of the mechanics.
When you take a step back you can really appreciate how well this emulates an actual slasher flick.
You don’t want to get caught because the outcome can be catastrophic gameplay wise. It’s probably the best thing about dbd.
The moment they water it down dbd loses what makes it threatening and unique and becomes another dull uneventful safe grind fest like every other online game out there.
I hope it never changes and the more uncomfortable people seem to be about it the better dbd does it’s job of emulating the slasher genre. Which is just great.
Just my personal counter perspective on the topic.
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People have already given good reasons to the validity of camping and tunnelling. So no need to repeat them but just to say I agree whole heartedly with their very clear and well put points on the topic.
As for the second part of “scummy” play demonising your opponent for legitimate game play really isn’t a great thing and people throwing tantrums and attacking each other over gameplay won’t change till players stop doing that.
So in short camping and tunnelling are fine
Calling each other scummy for just playing the game is not fine.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410719#Comment_3410719
I understand what you mean and where you're coming from. But I reckon you can also imagine that not everyone can read certain tones from text. However obvious it might be to you that it's satire, it might not be for someone else.
A 45 min is definitely people not doing their objective, cus I can't imagine players would like to face that again and again.
I agree that it's in very bad taste to leave a game, but I wouldn't mock someone either. But that's just me. You have yourself a lovely day!
Each to their own. I respect your opinion on the matter and true without intonation text often gets misconstrued.
Yeah I don't condone attacking each other over the forums, but if you post in an open online forum you gotta expect people might disagree with you.
If you post something downright egregious or completely ridiculous, you gotta expect someone will point that out to you also, which can feel like an attack sometimes.
Its an open forum so people are welcome to comment, the key point is to remember that when the dust settles its a gaming forum and is of no real consequence.
I honestly believe that people shouldn't hold a personal grudge against others over a gaming forum topic no matter how heated the "debate" might get.
Being on the receiving end of a lil light mockery does wonders for the ego too, I welcome people's dissenting opinions to anything I post because it makes for interesting discussion and that's why we're here, to talk DBD... warts and all.
And thanks, I started planting my garden so it has been a lovely day, I hope your day is lovely too.
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Its pretty clear yeah that there isn't favoring of one side.
As others have pointed out though balance is hard to come by in an asymmetric game. But that's ok too.
One of the big appeals for DBD is that its a bit imbalanced in certain scenarios.
There are very few online games with the kind of finality that DBD has. (MWO is another one, once you blow up its game over).
People may complain about the irksome or annoying aspects of elimination and non-participation (hanging on hook/slugging) but the fact that such a visceral threat exists in game with such finality really captures the slasher flick vibe that the game is emulating.
It takes a bit of imbalance to maintain that and it's a good thing.
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no not really, it aint easy, but it aint over till all are dead or out the door.
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As a big Halloween fan and a massive player of Myers in DBD I have to say a blanket no to this.
It's too much, outside of amazing chases or outright avoiding the killer, jumping in a locker is one of the only tools to help you avoid the tombstone mori.
Its a bit of a bum play too because you either get mori'd or you get grabbed out of locker, unless your timing is great or you have head on.
Taking away the ability to use lockers does not make it fair, doing so just so people can get their achievement easier is even less fair.
If you play enough Myers you will get your Tombstone Achievement eventually.
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The realisation that you are part of the problem when it comes to a gaming community being one of the quitters and openly ruining it for others is a hard pill to swallow but this is a personal growth moment for you take it or leave it.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410094#Comment_3410094
That same logic as to having a selfish attitude also applies to a killer who refuses to do their objective for more a long period of time. Which is considered holding the game hostage, when you're quite literally refusing to do your objective (which goes without saying that it applies to both sides).
You can't blame players for not wanting to be stuck in such a match, though obviously quitting a match isn't a solution. An overall timer to the game could possibly solve it.
To be stuck in a 45 min game takes both sides to be not doing their objective.
My point isn’t survivor vs killer my point is just outright quitting when the game isn’t exactly what someone wants is bad form.
Coming to the forum to openly announce you plan to do that leaves you open for some justified mockery.
Morso when it’s in response to a bit of satire that was clearly missed.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409878#Comment_3409878
Or just expand on that basekit Unbreakable so no ones forced to stay on the ground to bleed out?
But the ability to slug survivors is an integral part of the game, giving players the ability to just stand up because they don't like being on the ground is really not a great idea.
This notion of just making every niche effect basekit so you never have to face anything out of the ordinary from a narrow selection of core gameplay is a recipe for complete dullness.
I would argue a game where you face the threat of being slugged is far more interesting than a game where being slugged is no threat at all.
In the event that everyone is slugged and none has the power to pick themselves up then perhaps the timer should speed up to avoid the wait, you have to give the killer enough time to hook everyone though.
A built in stand up for free though is juts a terrible idea.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409924#Comment_3409924
People just love saying the game is dying every time steam chart numbers show any kind of decline.
Yeah two big reasons really
- People love to feel validated that something they are angry at is dying and a lot of people are here because they are angry at what just happened in game.
- Joe public's understanding of stats and data is often woeful at best and watching people flail numbers around without any real understanding or insight can be painful.
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But can't you see how that kind of selfish attitude lends itself to single player games over online games.
Basically you can't manage your time and anyone you play with has to pay the cost for that if the scenario doesn't suite you, that's a terrible attitude to have.
You are free to do it but it does make you a bit of crappy person to play with, I'd recommend single player games from now on.
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It hasn't declined that much if you look at the numbers.
The average player count is pretty stable and still higher than pre-pandemic years which have unnaturally inflated the figures of most games over a 3 year period.
So yeah while there is a slight downward trend the player averages are still pretty consistent and the trend lines match the general spike in Apr/May after chapter release followed by slow decline till next chapter release.
Its hardly indicative of a declining player base... yet.
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Hawkins was a great map.
Jump scare Myers on Hawkins so much fun.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406904#Comment_3406904
I have a feeling that our matchmaking rating has a hidden floor, based on playtime / player devotion level, preventing "experienced" players from tanking their rating for easier matches / to troll.
I'll give you that, I often feel like it takes far more losses to adjust down than it does to spike up after a few wins. That's just anecdotal though but I do see your point and fair enough.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408919#Comment_3408919
thats 4 minutes that could be spent looking and even playing another match
Yes but without it you would just auto bleed out if left on the ground so too short and you die to quick if slugged, too long and people complain I think 4mins isn't a bad amount of time for said mechanic.
Guess you could reduce it to 3mins without too much interruption to how it functions.
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@TheSourGrrl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373487/just-got-out-of-a-45-min-sm-game
Hilarious.
I have a limited amount of time to play games, because I have a professional job and am not just a teen kid or whoever comprises the bulk of this community.
No one is going to force me to stay in a tedious 40-50 minute Dull Merchant game. No one.
Guess people are going to cry about it, though.
It’s funny yeah and all the whining is kinda silly.
But as to your further comment well, it’s not really the responsibility of the devs or your opponents to manage your personal time.
So the I’m to busy to play a 40 min game of dbd just means that you shouldn’t be playing dbd then.
As a self described adult you should further be able to manage your time so that you play dbd when you have the time. It’s not that hard to do and is nobody’s responsibility but your own.
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Yeah came back after a bit of a break, been playing evil genius lately.
So far games have been pretty good as both killer and survivor.
got absolutely eaten alive by good teams last night though. But was still good fun.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408925#Comment_3408925
The op is complaining about the fact that merchant can grind the game to a halt forcing survivors to either throw the match or suffer through 30 minute games
Under no circumstance should survivors feel the need to throw a match just to get out quicker.
They don’t have to throw the match. The game only grinds to a halt of no one is trying to progress the objective.
Most coordinated teams can break a 3 gen if they try, solos may struggle a bit more and that’s why the merchant needs looking at mechanics wise.
But if you come up against a really hard tactic to beat I’d rather still try and progress the objective, learn something and maybe have some fun while still progressing the game, than sit around being miserable about how it’s too hard.
Even afk pig a completely busted play style could be countered, it was just really hard and not that practical, but we managed it twice and everyone got out.
Just as afk pig was changed, I’m sure there will be changes to merchant eventually.
Till then you can play it out for the fun and maybe find some interesting ways to work around it or continue to wallow in self pity and whinge. I know what I’d rather do.
You can’t really stop people from choosing to be miserable though.
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407410#Comment_3407410
Will you post this screenshot everywhere ? Don't you understand it doesn't mean anything, no one know your MMR so out of context a random screenshot, means nothing...
As i told you in the other threads, getting 3k with a trapper without good add-ons and without camping tunneling is impossible against good players.
You are right about the screen shot, I can post any screen shot and tell a little unconfirmed narrative to illustrate my point.
But you are wrong about the Trapper. It’s perfectly possible to kill even a coordinated swf without camping in tunneling. Get better at setting up your traps.
That said… camping and tunnelling are just tactics you can use as killer and there is nothing wrong with using them if you like.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407532#Comment_3407532
That was never my point.
My point was that your advice was to literally quit if you didn't like how she played.
I pointed it out. That's all.
But it wasn’t and I made that clear.
I don’t want to quit but neither do I want to just hide on the far side of the map. I’m going to try and progress the objective even if that’s really hard to do.
If I die then no hard feelings, because it’s only a game and not worth getting upset about.
I think that a pretty healthy outlook to have on the game. No matter how much you want to twist it with your negative outlook.
whereas you said you’d try and kobe off hook, would you try till you died this genuinely quitting the game or would you try a couple then wait for rescue.
You are promoting quitting more than I am, but felt the need to get all self righteous about throwing the game, because I’d rather get involved and progress the objective than just outright quit and complain.
hypocrisy is the best way to fall off your high horse and you fell hard. So as I previously said welcome back to the mud.
But if you want to keep whining and quitting go for it but I’d rather get involved in games that are starting to drag out and have fun, even if that fun may get me killed.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406892#Comment_3406892
So more and longer DBD is a bad thing?Yes, game relies on tension and rush.
Example: professional sports - tripling the length of games would not triple the fun.
Same way chases are the most fun part of the game but getting chased all game, aka tunneled, is a bad thing?Just because something is the most exciting part of the game does not mean it should be the only part of the game. Also, many people who talk about loving chases don't mind being tunneled, but that does not mean they represent everyone.
The same way trying to achieve you own objective by any means is good but when your opponent does it its sweaty and bad?Saying game elements should be changed is not the same as criticizing how someone plays.
The same way bringing the best perks yourself is good play but not the same as your sweaty take it too serious opponent who brought the best perks because they're bad?Saying game elements should be changed is not the same as criticizing how someone plays.
The same way laying on ground for four mins is too long and bad but waiting out the endgame timer till the very last second for three mins is ok time use?Neither is okay.
The same way that getting eliminated early is bad but having to stay in game for too long is also bad and pretty much any scenario in between?Same response as the top. 4 minutes of DbD is not a lot of fun, neither is 30, sweet spot is found in between.
This community is interesting sometimes, they really hate this game, they hate playing it, they hate investing time into it, they hate everyone else who plays it, they hate anything that might happen in game... yet they keep playing it. Its fascinating.Not really fascinating, fairly basic. When things line up DbD is great. Probably the best multiplayer game I've ever played. But on many occasions its also been the worst game I've ever played. Now whether it is possible to cut down on the bad games while still keeping the good games is an open question, but shouldn't really surprise anyone that people want the good and not the bad.
Irony and satire aren't your strong suites are they.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407350#Comment_3407350
We are complaining because skull merchant forces these match’s where she can basically guarantee a win unless survivors have great coordination. Saying to “force interaction” is literally just throwing the match
But at no point in this game should the option be “throw the match or spend 30+ minutes”. That’s too long and not interesting
You you have the solution to your problem make some coordinated plays.
Again what’s being discussed here isn’t the mechanics of the skull collector. The OP says they have nothing constructive to add, what was being complained about is a 40 min match.
Yes the mechanics of the skull collector need looking at but if you are “stuck” in a 40 min match you can either complain or get involved.
I prefer to do the latter as at least it can still be a fun game even if I don’t win.
What kind of idiot is sitting around in a 40 min game getting angrier and angrier at it when they have to power to get involved.
If it fails which it probably will you can move on from the match. You aren’t quitting but neither are you just sitting around moaning about the stalemate.
If people want to view that as purposefully throwing the game then fine wallow in your negative perspectives and don’t have any fun. I plan to have fun no matter what happens in game and I generally do.
I love how people are hell bent on ruining their own fun in this game because of their crappy mindset.
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I like to try and crawl away into the most hidden spot when left slugged. A couple of times I’ve lucked out and been near the hatch spawn and even got out.
It’s not as bad as people like to go on about. It’s 4 mins.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I think having a negative impression of recent chapters (totally justified, they're bad) doesn't necessarily crapping on the came as a whole.
Do I think the last couple chapters have been garbage tier? Yeah. But I like DBD as a whole, and would give it an overall positive review. Kind of a conundrum.
Yeah I'd agree to some extent but what's the endgame really, I mean if people want particular changes or have particular problems then just hopping on the forums and ranting "stuff bad me angry" doesn't really achieve much.
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I think it's the next logical step and I'm sure its on the books.
Took a long time to get custom bots so I wouldn't hold my breath though.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407331#Comment_3407331
If SM wants to hold the game hostage, I would say it is fine to kobe off of hook. She is intentionally abusing game mechanics without progressing the match, those players are breaking the rules and should be reported.
If it's just a SM and people quit, then that's just entitlement.
Ok so you do think its ok to "quit" against the killer in the same way I supposedly think its ok to "quit" against the killer by making a risky play with little potential success. I'm glad we see eye to eye.
Welcome back to the mud.
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Altruism isn't your strong suit is it.
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👏 not half bad for an AI.
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Its probably not a bad suggestion at this point given how poorly people react to de-pipping even with how completely unimportant it is in game terms.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407058#Comment_3407058
And if SM just ignores me and continues to moniter her 3 gen?
Can’t bait and taunt someone who isn’t even focused on survivors period
Then each focus on a gen you keep tapping them till you either complete it or die trying. Either way you force the interaction and bring the game to a conclusion.
Before someone else accuses me of promoting throwing the game, the primary complaint was that it went on for 40 mins, that only happens when neither side is trying to progress the objective.
Remember we aren't discussing whether or not the mechanics of the skull collector are broken, we are whining about a 40 min game these are two different things and my response is to the topic of the latter not the concept of the former.
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You good sir are encroaching on my safe space with your dastardly logic and unveiled disdain for my fragile sensibilities.
I'll complain if I must, and neither you nor your forthright pragmatic outlook on the game and its community can stop me.
It's all everyone else's fault! It always has been and the uncaring devs, lets not forget them! Have let it happen.
Fix my problems for me game man... and leave me to my complaints.
Your lack of sympathy has only emboldened my fight for balance and justice. A pox on you!
End scene...
(Best read in a stoic Queen's English accent for maximum snoot effect).
OP I respect your take on the game and its more vocal players.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407206#Comment_3407206
it's not that deep
someone making a rant thread on the dbd forums to blow off some steam isn't that big of a deal lol
I'm well aware of that in fact I'd go so far to say that nothing on these forums is of any real consequence as its a computer game... in the wide scheme of things who really cares.
But it is a discussion forum and we are here to discuss, so why not discuss it... otherwise why are we here?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407173#Comment_3407173
"Literally throw the game if you don't like it"
That's not what I said at all. That's a stretch at best.
Don't misuse the term literally, it gets misused enough by people who don't know what it means.
But hiding on the far side of the map or not playing as a team around the gen to try and distract the killer and then complaining about the lack of interaction is just kinda silly.
If you're not happy with how the mechanics of a killer work provide some objective feedback in the feedback section, that's what its for.
The OP starts with the sentence "I don't really have anything constructive to say about the killer."
If you're just gonna say "game took to long waah, get rid of this waah"... well that's just whinging and people are gonna rightly say hey stop whinging you whinger.
Or more productively they might say hey try this instead, you might still have some fun, like I did (in the second post admittedly the first is more a lil chuckle).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406892#Comment_3406892
Acting like she chases you lol
"Do gen, get hit, SM kicks gen, places drone, you go reset with another Survivor, gen regresses" repeat for an hour.
well yeah... if you just bolt in a straight line to the far side of the map then no she won't chase you, you gotta play around the 3 gen. Expecting her chase away from the advantageous position is a fools errand.
There is a high chance you'll go down but then the game ends and you can move on.
What kind of fool is sitting in a 40 min game grumping about the 40 min game. Get in there and mix it up and if you fail and die then move on to a new game.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406892#Comment_3406892
Long interactive games are what we want. Most Skull merchant just sits at 3 gens and hits you if you get close
Then you need to team up and bait and taunt and make the game interactive. You have the power to do that why not try and exercise it during the game?
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406749#Comment_3406749
There is a lot of issues with these statements. For clarity sake and not typing a manifesto in response all of those PVP games you mentioned, its a level playing field- you can just as easily die as kill someone.
That is not the case in DBD. Survivors can not simply just choose to tunnel and face/proxy camp because they're "LEGIT STRATEGIES" and not in the "POWER ROLE" and remove 1 player from the match for whatever reason they want, unlike killers. It's a blatant double standard and part of the issues withe the game that the devs have 0 interest in even addressing.
No but survivors can choose to split up on gens spreading the pressure of their objective, they can choose to focus a particular gen down. They can leverage their goals optimally too.
Now people see less impact of this because when leveraging a survivor goal nobody is eliminated, but elimination and avoiding elimination are the core elements of the game.
The rigid rules for goal setting you are applying to the killer player would have to be applied to the survivor player also, so now gens are numbered 1-2-3-4-5 and you can only fix them in order. You can't start working on gen 2 if gen 1 isn't complete. Greatly limiting your ability to apply pressure toward your objective.
Elimination is part of the game, you may get eliminated early you may get eliminated late but it is the entire killer objective, you can't remove the ability to apply pressure via early elimination without drastically breaking the game.
If you feel elimination is somehow mean and not fair, then maybe DBD isn't the game for you because it is an elimination game and the killer player can use every legitimate tool in their arsenal to try and eliminate you, that's allowed, its their goal, just as you the survivor can use every tool in your own arsenal to complete the gens and avoid elimination.
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The problem with your proposal is it provides immunity to elimination.
So 3x players do gens and are safe from elimination. 4th survivor hides all game with no interaction with the killer.
Killer can't kill anyone without leaving the other survivors alone to do their objective and finding the hiding player. Kind of a bad idea.
Lets try and eliminate the problem people have with getting eliminated then...
So lets propose survivors respawn and win/loss is based on an endgame score. No one ever gets eliminated and the number points scored by hooks/time taken to escape dictates who wins by endgame score.
Game becomes dull and repetitive because the only thing interesting about DBD is avoiding the threat of elimination. The mechanics themselves are actually pretty dull without that threat. So also not a good idea.
The very thing that makes DBD interesting is the ever present threat of elimination. Anything that heavily attenuates that threat invariably dilutes the game experience.
So yes you may get targeted and eliminated early and that may be more prevalent if you have TTV in your name because people have a bad opinion of TTV's given the extremely bad behaviour of a lot of TTV's. I'm not justifying targeting another play but it is a reality of having TTV in your name.
Attenuating the core threat of the game so streamers feel better about playing is frankly a terrible idea for game health.
The only real solution to this is to put 1000's of hours into the game get really good at it and then be a quality player who can be an entertaining streamer. See online streaming like anything takes a ######### ton of effort to be a valuable endeavor beyond just some silly hobby.
Additionally given that streaming is open to basically anyone with a computer and a camera, being a streamer means you are just another Joe Blow in a sea of 10'000'000 other Joe Blows with a computer and a camera, no talent needed.
So to make streaming a worthwhile experience, given the costs that come with it, you need to input a heap of time and effort... and attenuating the core threat of the game to minimize that time and effort for the sake of streamers is a really bad idea game wise, no matter how good the intentions might be.
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Maybe you or your team are just not very good at the game?
Dying 30 times in a row no amount of survivor buffs/killer nerfs will save you with a streak like that.
After that many deaths your MMR should have down adjusted enough to get some pretty easy killers, its coupled with inexperienced team mates which can make it tricky to get a coherent team going which is the great failing of MMR as it is.
But still 30 deaths in a row phew wow you gotta try and escape more.
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So more and longer DBD is a bad thing?
Same way chases are the most fun part of the game but getting chased all game, aka tunneled, is a bad thing?
The same way sitting on gens all game is boring but not hyperfocusing on the objective and doing anything but sitting on gens all game is letting the team down?
The same way trying to achieve you own objective by any means is good but when your opponent does it its sweaty and bad?
The same way bringing the best perks yourself is good play but not the same as your sweaty take it too serious opponent who brought the best perks because they're bad?
The same way laying on ground for four mins is too long and bad but waiting out the endgame timer till the very last second for three mins is ok time use?
The same way that getting eliminated early is bad but having to stay in game for too long is also bad and pretty much any scenario in between?
This community is interesting sometimes, they really hate this game, they hate playing it, they hate investing time into it, they hate everyone else who plays it, they hate anything that might happen in game... yet they keep playing it. Its fascinating.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404851#Comment_3404851
-"Similar to SWF in DBD not every game is against highly coordinated SWF teams but you'd swear it was the way people go on about it."
Every game is not a comp squad but even games with 2x 2 man swfs are far more difficult than 4 solo players.
-"You do accept that things have more recently been changed to the positive of the killer player which kinda blows away your "they never consider how it feels to play killer" comment."
I absolutely do not agree. This patch is way easier to play survivor than it is killer- like most patches. This patch made it impossible to defend generators so I expect more people to move to defending hooks.
-"I play trapper and Myers and have a great time, they are hardly "S tier" as people put it. "
Almost everybody I know who is a survivor main says they have a fun time playing killer. Almost everyone I know who is a highly skilled killer main regularly takes breaks from the game because this game is very stressful and often not fun.
-"you say stop being a parrot but you keep continuing to make the same mistake every post."
So are you accepting it's not fun when you play vs a comp squad and get absolutely dusted?
-"Otz can play however he wants to play to maintain his streak its not an indicator of poor game health"
Many people use Otz as the "wholesome" example of a killer main. He does look wholesome compared to say CMWinter but that's a different story. Truetalent understands the game very well and advocated we move the game for chases not hooks. Patrick pushed the game in a different direction and most people hate the result. Like him or not he has excellent game knowledge and pushed for good changes for the game.
-"not a really a fact but they do do less than what they did"
If we compare a pink mori in 2016 to a pink mori in 2023 how effective is one compared to the other? The original effect does not compare and offers a negative advantage to hooking as the animation takes longer.
If we compare 4x BNP in 2016 to 2023 we went from a 100% effect to a 25% effect.
There is no way you can spin these factsThis is a clear example of one side's tools got obliterated and one side did not. You are in some crazy denial mode when presented with undeniable facts.
-"Patch 6.1 was a pretty big buff and QOL change for killers"
That's the rhetoric of survivor mains.
Killer got weaker against SWF and stonger against solos. And then they gave solos HuD info including gen/healing percentages.
There's an old quote from one of the devs where the plan was :
- Make solo survivor closer to SWF (they did that).
- Buff Killer - they haven't done that yet.
-"But to claim that survivors get it all and killers get nothing really isn't that accurate."
Survivors get softer and more favorable adjustments than killers. This is a true factual statement that we could go line by line for every patch since 2016.
Well yeah survivor is a team game, you'd expect a coordinated team to do better than a group of solos. Its harder but not impossible. As you keep implying.
Yeah if we cherry pick patches that predominately favor survivors then you could say killers don't get much but, the point being discussed here is your suggestion that killers never get consideration, which historically and currently isn't true. If you are going to say hyperbolic statements like "they never consider how it feels to play killer" then you need something to back that up with and you don't have it because even with recent patches the killer game is still better than the dismal examples you pulled from 7 years ago.
Is it perfect no, is it better than it was yeah, are the recent changes more survivor sided I'd say yeah they were preceded by some pretty good killer changes that you seem hell bent on ignoring.
Forget otz and Tru for a moment and try and have a few ideas about the game of your own. Nothing wrong with with taking in the perspective of others but seriously their opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's.
This isn't some complex topic that takes years of training and study to get an informed insight into, its a game with pretty basic mechanics.
That's the thing about streamers they belong to this really exclusive group called... anybody with an opinion and a camera. We lend them too much weight.
Finally yeah moris do suck now and as I've said before I'm bummed about that. They got changed too hard. BNP's have also been nerfed too not as much as moris have but the point is neither addon allows for a near immediate game ending experience for either side anymore and I think that's what they were trying to remove. Which they did for both just a lil too much for moris in my opinion, in that we are in agreement as I've said.
The rest of your points require me to be an uninformed "survivor main" but the reality is I play a ######### ton more killer than survivor and am mostly being accused of being a biased "killer main" on these forums. Thanks for being the first person to ever call me a survivor main its kinda funny. Guess my opinion has become less biased and more universal over time.
Engaging in tribal identity bias is one reason why a lot of your points lack validity, it renders you incapable of applying an unbiased detached critical assessment of changes, most of the complaining and suggestion posts made on these forums are corrupted by this kind of tribal identity bias often making them very un-objective.
I would propose, if you feel playing killer is as bad as it is... that maybe you aren't as good at killer as you think you are. That's ok neither am I, but its neither unfun nor stressful to play killer and if you are finding so then DBD may not be the game for you at least not the killer role.