pseudechis
pseudechis
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452308#Comment_3452308
I've already addressed this. I struggle you drop me. See, no mind reading ability needed.
Or not pick you up in the first place, either works... hang on that's what everyone is moaning about???
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452308#Comment_3452308
Is the 4k really worth wasting 4 minutes of your and other peoples time? If it’s for a challenge I get it, but if not than just move on.
That choice is entirely in the hands of the player.
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The problem is, broad generalization of game concepts. i.e. Nerf camping/tunneling, buff solo etc.
Lets unpack the "Nerf camping/tunneling" statement, Defending a hook AKA camping and chasing the same survivor off hook AKA tunneling are player choices. There are mechanics and perks to aid you if you are targeted by either choice making it less efficient but you have to use them properly and even then you can't remove the player choice, only hinder it.
To remove the player choice would involve a mechanic that gives complete immunity to camping/tunneling, which would basically limit player choice and be mechanically broken as there are a bunch of legit scenarios where this choice is a vital one to gameplay.
Lets unpack the buff "solo to the level of SWF" statement, Why are SWF groups stronger than solo players?
SWF - Coordinated players, probably matched in skill but not always, who are communicating directly via external communications. None of that has anything to do with game mechanics.
About the only thing you could add in game to buff solo closer to swf would be built in comms, but even then I probably wouldn't use them as its often unpleasant having to listen to the drooling masses you meet randomly online, BHVR want to create a "safe" gaming space, good luck doing that with random player voice chat, so buyer beware.
Objective suggestions about mechanics that could change up how impactful player choices are or allow for better coordination in the absence of friends directly communicating are always worth discussing, but most are either broken or amount to nothing more than "Buff/Nerf X" without any real substance.
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A better question to pose is even if it was "camping" would it matter?
Defending two hooked survivors is a good bet that's half the team out of the game. Even if the other 2 just focus on gens they probably aren't going to get everything done in time for the killer to not get at least 1-2 more downs before game end.
Sounds like a smart killer making a smart pay based on the circumstances. How folks choose to label the event beyond that is irrelevant.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452128#Comment_3452128
I've had someone bleed me out and in the end they wrote "Hook spawns are so bad" I was like well if you picked me up I wouldn't struggle. I just wanted out. Let's be real, if you are the last survivor left, injured, and the hatch is closed if you wiggle free you're extremely unlikely to escape.
How is the killer to know you won't struggle? Telepathy is a rather under developed trait yet somehow we frequently expect others to possess and apply it.
I've gotten out in that scenario and I've lost a last kill in that scenario too, so while improbable its not impossible. Play till the bitter end is my moto.
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Oh well its 4 mins of 1 game move on already.
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Even if facing off against a good team why give up?
You can farm up BP's at the very least.
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Nothing wrong with playing your character if that's how you want to play.
Furthermore unless the killer player stated this to you in endgame as their motivation frankly you've assumed all of this and then used the imagined scenario to make some kind of argument about people wanting to play a character.
Its all very impressive mental gymnastics but the only person you upset with it is yourself, so why do it?
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I’d say a lot of it is simply catastrophisation of even minor issues.
There is a real modern trend toward self victimisation and catastrophisation of any scenario.
So something happens in game that someone doesn’t like… it’s immediately always happening to them and they can’t do anything about it (victimisation) and also the worst thing imaginable making the game experience completely miserable (catastrophisation).
Players who think like this then come to the forums to express just that.
It’s rarely objective almost always seeking validation rather than solution and is highly reactionary to any suggestion that it isn’t the absolute truth.
I think the DBD forums, or at least the general discussion section isn’t a great representation of the DBD player base as a whole. Because this is where the self proclaimed victims come to catastrophise their issues with the game.
Of course it’s not everyone but there are enough that it gives off a rather negative vibe which is a shame because the game is a lot of fun.
The other issue is the number of streamers who seem to fall into this behaviour too which is a shame because there are streamers out there who don’t and they are usually fun to watch.
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Is the game profitable? If yes then I’m sure they are fine with it.
Just because they change and adjust doesn’t mean they are unhappy with their own product.
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There is no etiquette really.
I've always viewed playing DBD as playing a role in a slasher flick.
I mean if playing killer then ask yourself what would Michael Myers/Letherface/Freddy Kruger/Ghostface etc do?
If playing survivor then what would my character do in this scenario?
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I've never really cared about seeing other player's perks. Honestly I like the element of unknown that leads into a game.
Same goes for the new hud I didn't need to know what my fellow players were doing because as a solo player I was just doing my own thing.
I mean the downside of playing SWF is you always know what the killer is doing and what your teammates are doing which took a lot of the thrill out of the game. I helps you win but it erodes the thrill.
I also kinda like the, I don't know if this will work or if I can rely on this person, element of playing solo survivor. Made it more genuine survival horror and a lil more exciting to play.
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Set up a custom game and kill the custom game bots, pretty much none of what you are describing is present in a custom game against bots.
Don't like certain perks or items then customize your opponents
Don't like certain maps then remove them from the roster
Don't have enough BP's to buy the addons you want and run them, doesn't matter make any build you want for free.
Single best thing they added to DBD and if you are sitting there thinking "Ahhh playing killer online is miserable" then take a break or better yet... kill some bots.
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Touting a challenge that plays into the strengths of a killer's ability as "proof" that the dev's are biased in their game design is a stretch. Even by this forum's standards.
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@i_dont_care223 said:
for the record i didnt tunnel in fact i played insanely fair for skull merchant standards
ugh don't rise to the bait. How you played shouldn't even factor into it if you are playing within the game's defined rules.
I agree its time for DC's to be counted as kills for the purpose of achievements or dailies. Easier said then done though.
The ability to just cancel someone's achievement by quitting is crummy but does that mean we just give all the survivors in a game their adepts if the killer quits?
Its a tricky one.
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416768#Comment_3416768
it was hypothetical in the sense to say waht if it does happens. the realism to it is that it could happen. but of course you dont see the problem in that
Yeah a meteorite could strike us too, but I'm not using that as a reason to stop playing because I'm sure the odds are in my favour there.
You could get 10 games in a row where you get bled out by the killer and that would probably make you call it a night game wise, but that would have no bearing on the following day's gaming or the next day's gaming, so making changes because there is one rare and specific thing that potentially could happen but probably won't isn't the best rationale.
You want to make a strong point... then make a plausible example that has a real possibility of frequency of occurrence.
Too often people think they can drive the point home by offering up an absurd scenario where the situation would be the absolute worst it could possibly be but well out of the realm of probability. Before doing that you need to realise that if that's what it takes to make your point then your point isn't very strong.
You may bleed out in a couple of games over the course of a session, its a legit way to die in game so expect it to happen sometimes. You may only have time to play one game and bleed out in that one game. These are plausible scenarios but I don't feel they are common enough or game breaking enough to ruin the game experience or classify it as miserable.
If it takes 10 games in a row of being bled out while the killer taunts you to make it a miserable experience... well, then I think you will be fine.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417633#Comment_3417633
Cognitive dissonance.
You want so badly to prove that I'm "bad at the game" that you'd find any semblence of logic to match that conclusion.
I don't need to prove that nor am I trying too, your data measured it for me. 27.5% escape rate is low. (your edited 35% escape rate is still below average).
You measured it yourself and yes it is cognitive dissonance there is no rational link between your conclusions about the game as a whole and your data.
The irony of you making about that claim about my point is palpable, makes me wonder if you know what cognitive dissonance is or if you're just buzz wording in an attempt to undermine my point.
If you said "my opinion of the game is this" then that would be fine but you didn't do that. You measured how poor your escape rate was over 20 games and then made all kinds of wild assumptions to explain it that are in no way measured or supported by your data.
So what good is your data if it doesn't inform on your point?
What good is your point if it doesn't relate to your data?
To sum up...
All you've measured here is a below average escape rate so the only conclusion to make is... you have a below average escape rate, that's it.
We can wildly claim all kinds of reasons as for the why, but you have nothing to substantiate any of the why, all you have is a metric measuring a low escape rate.
So if someone had a metric measuring a below average escape rate, would you say they were good or bad at the game?
I would say probably not good...Now this is an opinion not a fact nothing is proven or trying to be proved... but it is an opinion that is supported by your own data given the below average results.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417605#Comment_3417605
I presented supplementary data because it paints a bigger picture than just saying 40% of my games contain at least one rage quitter.
Lets say I present the same exact data, but the Average Kills is ~1, the majority of Escapes Per Trial were 3 , and I've noted that 10 Killers Hooked Everyone Once.
Despite 40% of the games having a rage quitter, it paints a very different image of my experience.
You may be able to conclude a few things:
- The rage quit occured near the end of the game, and had little-to-no influence on how the game played out
- Killers were probably mindful of Survivors' experience, and went the extra mile to make sure everyone had a good time
- MMR mismatch heavily favored Survivors, so the game was easy even with a man down
- Game is poorly balanced around a 4v1, and Killers struggle even in a 3v1.
You could then remark "wow, that is a lot of rage quitting, although it doesn't appear to be negatively influencing your experience, we should still do something about it"
The context frames the conversation that should be had around the issue.
35% quitters. You assume out of rage.
These are all assumptions, not conclusions, you're confusing your opinion with fact.
There are no measures in what you have here to show what you are assuming to be genuine, the only measure you have is your low escape rate.
This is what I mean by spurious conclusions. i.e. a line of reasoning that's not actually valid. You data does not offer any validity to any of the conclusions presented here. It flat out doesn't.
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people will use any excuse to account for loss.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417127#Comment_3417127
Go back and look at the data I presented. Note what I said after sharing the 3 images: "Nearly half of my games saw someone quit."
What do you think my intended message was there? mmmh?
You seem to think I was complaining about my escape rate, tunneling, and camping. Why is that? Because I don't recall complaining about any of those things. Sure, they were in the data, but it was pretty obvious what my message was--
SoloQ is not fine, because there is a rage quitting epidemic.
But hey, that's just my experience, right? No one else is talking about rage quitters. It's not a real issue--I'm just bad at the game.
Speaking of which...lets talk about how bad I am at the game, yeah?
I can only escape in 7 of 20 games, when at least one of my teammates throws the game in another 7 of those 20 games. Game is designed around 3v1, right? Who needed that 4th teammate anyway.
I must be really bad for looping a Blight so long he decided to AFK, being directly responsible for the only Killer rage quit in 20 games and one of only two 4-man escapes.
I must also be really bad for looping a Legion for 7+ minutes, then dying because a Kate chose to spectate my chase (and body block me) instead of help Thalia finish the 4 remaining generators.
I couldn't possibly be good at the game if I was asked to join an eSports team. That just doesn't add up, cause eSports teams are for noobs, yeah? Aren't they like a tutorial league, where new players go to learn the game?
Just the fact that I'm voicing my opinion about what a horrible experience I'm having, means that I'm bad at the game, right? Experienced players have never taken issue with anything. Ever. In the history of competition. Right? .....right?
There couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the game. That could never be it. No, the game is perfect just the way it is, isn't it?
It's like hockey.
Your whole response is just... uhh ooo err... so many things wrong with it.
Its err all kinds of erm yeah nah.
Points for effort but actually no, I take those points back. 0/10 response.
So you presented data that was off point to account for an issue that was off topic... hence the ooh err.
Just digging that hole aren't you.
EDIT: "Nearly half of my games saw someone quit" one of them the killer and only 2 DC's, what you claim as survivor quit category isn't defined but we'll take you word for it so 7 games where a team mate quit of 20 doesn't account for a 27.5% personal escape rate.
Again it doesn't look like the game's fault here and yet again as previously mentioned your data doesn't support that conclusion. Its a stretch at best. Tunneling and camping are listed as two of your game affecting parameters if they aren't relevant to your point why list them?
This is what I mean about you not understanding what your "data" is saying. The only thing this data says is that your personal escape rate is low for these 20 games, now blame whatever you like for that result but I can tell you the most probable cause is the primary variable being measured, which is your personal performance.
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@SuperMunchkin95 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415816#Comment_3415816
well I wouldn't consider it un-immersive because the game is around Trials, there's horror but in a world where you know what's going on that this is some hunger games? and they're aware what happens and what to do? That's the kind of immersion I like, everything in the game is exactly what's in their world... (Like how Dark Souls has an excuse for every game mechanic in their lore?! THAT INCREDIBLE)
Fair enough that's a good way to look at the more game familiar... play the mechanics kind of DBD game.
I'm a fan of 80's slasher flicks, being that they terrified me as a kid, and while DBD isn't really that scary you can feel that change between survivors who are trying to sink your time so others can complete the objective and survivors who a genuinely are just trying to get away from you because they don't want to die. The latter is when the game really shines as both killer and survivor.
I can use the killers time by playing the mechanics but I'd rather run from them because they are big and scary and I'll get eliminated if I don't.
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I've been accused of hacking from both sides.
People need an excuse when they don't do well, be it camping, tunneling, SWF or cheating.
I'm sure there is subtle hacking that goes on but you only tend to notice it when its really overt, which makes it pretty uncommon in my experience.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417129#Comment_3417129
I did read the topic. And why would i want the game to be miserable? Im over here pissed that i was forced bleedout but sure im the problem. It’s definitely not the player that was playing like that.
But that's exactly the question I posed to you, why are you pissed about getting bled out?
Is it the wait? is it the seemingly unfairness of it all, do you feel angry about the loss or being taunted about loss?
1. If its the wait then I've made some objective suggestions about how that might be fixed, maybe go over to the feedback section and make some about how the wait might be reduced. BHVR do listen to that kind of feedback.
2. If its the unfairness then well its a legitimate part of the game so winning that way is well within the game rules and while a lil erroneous its not unfair. The killer has won you are all down if they want to run around rubbing that in your face for 4 mins then they can, same as survivors bobbing up and down at the exit gates.
Where it differs is the killer can always chase survivors out but when you bleed out there is not much you can do. So again its the wait, well see my previous point.
3. When someone rubs their win in your face its aggravating because it's childish and unnecessary, but if you let that get to you then even if they do shorten the timer or make fixes so that bleeding out is quicker, if you are still gonna let yourself get aggravated over it then its not the bleeding out that upsets you but the being taunted over the loss.
That's where you need to work on your own outlook on the game because in an anonymous online world someone is always gonna give you a hard time about losing or winning. While that sucks its the reality of playing online with strangers. If its upsetting a lot of players that's where BHVR need to look at options for how to lessen the tools used to taunt, which again comes back to my first point. A bit of trash talk is not a terrible thing though and BHVR are probably gonna let players have their fun.
To sum up if you do go over to the feedback section just make sure your suggestions are objective rather than "delete this I hate it waah" because that kind of whining doesn't really lead to change it just leads to more whining.
I've already made suggestions that I think would go toward lessening the issue of being left to bleed out, that was my contribution to this discussion thread. Do with it what you will.
But I'll say this creating a composite list of other stuff you don't like pitching it back isn't really an answer to the point I've made.
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@maximo99ac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416475#Comment_3416475
op is complaining about the survivors asking for new antitunneling mechanics when supposedly they use the base bt in ways that promote tunneling
Yeah that's basically what I said.
Players have built in BT to help with being chased off hook but it very often gets used to body block rather than flee making the best scenario for the killer to chase the blocker rather than the unhooker.
So if players want tools to avoid being tunneled and then use those tools in a way that makes tunneling them the best choice for the killer, then asking for more tools to avoid tunneling is a bit of a mute point really.
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Nope not the base score anyway.
Honestly though I don't ever really break 40k as killer either.
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Its an odd one, there is a lot of self defeating victimhood in this community. You don't see it in other gaming forums at least not to the extent you see it here.
Most gaming forums are a celebration of the game, people sharing builds, swapping ideas etc.
I think the only other gaming forum with this kind of almost "nihilistic" loathing was WOW. People playing WOW really seem to hate WOW and anyone who plays it including themselves. Its a very strange community.
In DBD people really project their anger and hatred of the game at each other, I mean in other online games people get angry when they lose but they don't usually get angry when they win, and simply because the game didn't play out 100% how they wanted.
You really can't do anything in game without hurting someone's sensibilities its almost impressive at this point.
Especially given the extremely adult content that game contains.
Its like an intensely adult premise being played by petulant children. Its all very interesting.
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I find it odd that people think the pinkie finger is overrated or only good for camping, its a great tool for shortening a chase. Also makes the clown a lot of fun to play and face because there is a threatening extra element to getting hit by a jar.
I sits in the right place as an iri because that's what good iris do change up the play or add a threatening extra.
With the pinkie finger the goal moves on from herding survivors out of position with the gas for hits, to slowdown and closing distance to pop them directly with the bottle for the down.
It changes up how you chase and aim your bottles making for some welcome variation in gameplay. I've always kinda liked that.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416786#Comment_3416786
Ok if you think a killer trying to force bleed puts is fine, then what are your thoughts with facecamping bubba?
Its also fine, in fact some of the most intense games I've played have been against a face camping bubba.
The feeling of getting an unhook against a face camping bubba because you got him to tantrum with some tight turns and use that time to get the unhook is a great one, its really hard to do and amazing when it pays off.
If you have sweaty palms at the end of a chase then it was a good chase regardless of the outcome.
EDIT: You didn't actually read the topic did you or you did and came back with an irrelevant topic as a counter point. All I can say to that is well if you want to find the game miserable then that's up to you, bummer eh because its actually a lot of fun.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416736#Comment_3416736
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416779#Comment_3416779
lmfao, 'small sample size', yeah I was waiting for that one.
When someone tells you they don't enjoy DBD, are you going to ask them if they've played at least 100 games, so that they've collected an adequate enough sample size to justify their expression of distaste?
I don't know about you, but 6 hours of gameplay is sample size enough to tell me if something is fun. Steam seems to agree, since their refund policy is under 4 hours. Only 1 of these 20 games were enjoyable--I don't need a larger sample size to draw any more conclusions about the "state of game health."
@Xernoton you were the first one to use anecdotal evidence to make bold claims in this thread. I could care less what you deduce from my data. Point is that if you want to tell other people "SoloQ is fine," while offering nothing of substance to support that notion, you're going to be met with people providing evidence to the contrary.
It's honestly hilarious that you think I need to present MORE data to prove that SoloQ is in a poor state, when you've a wave of community members expressing grievances about their experiences, while the occassional Survivor (like myself) presents evidence to support their claims.
Also, mate, seriously? You're going to pretend like SoloQ isn't 3 times more likely to encounter a sandbagging teammate than a 3-man SWF?
Edit: Also, @pseudechis you can continue to play the "small sample size/using yourself as a baseline is bad" card all you want, but you totally miss the point of players sharing their personal data. If everyone on the forums presented data from their last 20 games, you'd suddenly see a better picture of overall game health. It's not my responsibility to present everyone's data, nor is it my responsibility to waste my time collecting data, but I'm doing a service to this community by sharing what I can.
If you want to discredit MY experience, because on it's own it is not representative of the community, you are doing a MASSIVE disservice to the rest of the community. I logged 20 games. I shared the information from those games that is most pertinent to this discussion, to Xernoton--I never commented about my notes on tunneling or camping, because they are irrelevant--they're only in the screenshot because the information is presented alongside disconnects/rage quits/afks.
So kindly get the "um er, actually, yikes, this information is... oof, idk" attitude out of here, and try to see the bigger picture. You've got a forum of people expressing frustration over something, yet you respond to each and every one of them as if they are the only ones living in that reality. Major gaslighter.
Ah you see its bad data because its your proof of concept that the game itself is bad, but all it really demonstrates is that you're kinda bad at it.
Now if you are miserable about the game because you aren't as good at it as you want to be then your data does an ok job of making that point, but game changes can't fix that only you can.
There is a reason they pool outcomes across many many players to look at game outcome statistics because that's the only way you can make game wide claims. Even with 100 games it would still not be a great representation because the game metrics are built from 1000's to 10,000's of players and game outcomes.
This data is not about the game as a whole its a snap shot of you, so if your conclusions from this data represent a bad game... well it's a more accurate conclusion to say that it represents a bad you.
If we go by kill/escape rate data they released a while back which sat at about 60/40 last time I saw it. Then what we have here is 20 games demonstrating empirically that you can't meet the 60/40 average. That's it, the data is an assessment of how you perform playing the game not the game itself.
That's the problem with your pie chart post, the conclusion is spurious and irrelevant at best because its asking the wrong question of the data. You've measured how good am I at the game and used it to make conclusions about balance. All we can answer from this is are you personally any good at DBD? and from the data the answer is no, not really.
I didn't want to get all raw paper reviewer on you but you wanted it so there it is.
"So kindly get the "um er, actually, yikes, this information is... oof, idk" attitude out of here, and try to see the bigger picture. You've got a forum of people expressing frustration over something, yet you respond to each and every one of them as if they are the only ones living in that reality."
Well yeah this is where people come to whine, its the forum and 90% of what's being whined about can be fixed by the player not the game. The game really isn't as miserable as people like to make it out to be, but people fixate on this stuff like their actual life depends on it when the reality is that its largely inconsequential.
You can offer people up an alternative perspective and maybe some objective suggestions about how things could get fixed, but a lot of people aren't here for that, they are here to validate their feelings in a sympathetic echo chamber.
Its not gaslighting to disagree with someone and I disagree with the OP, this game isn't about making people miserable and if you are miserable then change your outlook because the game doesn't have to change just because you personally find it miserable.
If you do want it to change then the best way is to make an objective suggestion about how it might be improved.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416519#Comment_3416519
Just ignore him he is always like that
You should really read the posts, there are some interesting ideas being bounced around about slugging on the whole and mechanics that may fix some of the less fun elements of it.
This was your thread I'd urge you to read some of the more productive elements of it.
You can see people get really emotional about this stuff I mean gee look at some of the replies, there is an essay on how horrible the game is I mean wow. None of it is particularly productive, unless that's what you are looking for great but it also pays not to ignore the more productive elements of the discussion.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416505#Comment_3416505
There would definitely need to be some conditions to it. It would have to work different than unbreakable. Maybe instead of being able to recover fully right away you can get a second recovery bar that activates say 10 seconds after the first one has been filled. At that point it would be clear the killer is slugging but also give the survivors and killers time to change up their strategy. The killer would then have to pick you up or lose the hook opportunity.
You make a good suggestion here, I think the primary issue though isn't so much being slugged or even bleeding out as a mechanic.
The primary complaint people have is the scenario where the whole team lies on the ground and bleeds out while the killer refuses to hook. In that scenario you'd be looking at speeding up timers to close the game out rather than wait around for the 4 mins.
You wouldn't remove the viability of slugging as a strategy to apply pressure but still attenuate the major complaint people have with slugging, which is the slow bleed out of the whole survivor team. Which is what I'm proposing.
Its impactful where it needs to be without removing the gameplay that slugging and bleed out initiates.
I don't disagree with you on a mechanic like you suggest I'm just trying to focus on the major point of contention people have which seems to be the everyone bleeds out for 4 mins scenario.
EDIT: although if that timer was too fast it would make mass slugging the team more viable than hooking so you might see an increase in the behaviour as it becomes more efficient than trying to hook. The suggestion is not without it's own caveats.
Maybe UB could reactivate, in the scenario that all 4 survivors get slugged thus giving you an additional out and some more viability to it as a perk for avoiding the bleed out.
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416527#Comment_3416527
hypothetically speaking, if you played 10 matches and all ten times you brought unbreakable, you got yourself up all ten times only to be slugged again for an additional 4 minutes. do you think youd still play the game after this? i know what your answer will be. But the majority would probably disagree. I know i know. your argument is that it doesnt happen 10/10 times. But why does that matter. The fact of the matter is it happens. its lame. and it does nothing healthy for the game in terms of keeping a player base. if you think this stuff isnt going to make people considering not playing the game anymore, then id call that foolish.
oh man lets unpack this.
All 10 matches you bring unbreakable and you still bleed out for the 4 mins in all 10 matches. That doesn't happen its not as prevalent as people like to make out.
The fact of the matter is it happens yes, but not to the extent you need it to happen to illustrate your point which is 10 out of 10 games or 100% of your play time.
If it takes that level of unrealistic hypothetical to make your point then your point is rather weak. (boy I get tired of having to say this to people on this forum, its such a common mistake).
Here.
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416648#Comment_3416648
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416641#Comment_3416641
Basically this, bring unbreakable and use it wisely.
Slugging forces survivor interaction and teamwork which is a big part of the game.
The primary gripe here seems to be people don't want to wait out the 4 mins when the whole team is slugged and the killer is just letting them bleed out.
Now we don't want a mechanic that just basically removes slugging because its an important tool the killer has and its a mechanic the forces necessary teamwork from the survivors, survivor is about teamwork. Its also another motivation to no be caught by the killer and allows for all kinds of play such as baiting out pallet saves ect. Also downing all survivors and removing their ability to complete the objective is a legitimate way to win the game as killer.
Slugging in of itself is not a bad thing... so we don't need a mechanic that all but destroys it. Like built in UB.
How do we keep slugging but remove the tedious disliked wait of bleeding out while the killer doesn't hook?
The answer is to tweak the time it takes to bleed out in that scenario. We either shorten the time overall or introduce a mechanic that quickens the bleed out timer when all survivors are down and can't pick themselves up.
I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion.
See how the suggestion here doesn't require some fanciful hypothetical that appeals to the extremes in order to seem valid.
This is what I mean by objective vs emotional discussions.
Yeah for sake of argument if I did get bled out for 10 games in a row I would probably call it a day playing survivor, but the problem here is the mechanic of being left to bleed out for 4 mins not slugging or bleed out in general. So if you read the above post I've addressed this in the most practical way I can see fit.
Without the need for extreme hyperbole.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415247#Comment_3415247
The last 20 solo survivor games I'll ever play.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TQN2HTKME6EF/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F4Q5DQUJ0S00/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T9CZNEGL3S6Z/image.png
Nearly half of my games saw someone quit.
But SoloQ is "mostly fine?"
What world do you live in where this is fine?
uhh ooo err.. so many things wrong with presenting this as data.
You have discrete measured binary variables escape yes/no mixed with ill-defined subjective perceptions of play i.e. tunneling/proxy camping.
Small sample size with escape % given alongside average kills representing counter data in different formats.
Its err all kinds of erm yeah nah.
This is a metric of your personal game outcome not overall game health, using yourself as the baseline for overall game health is errr..
Points for effort but not great for its purpose.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416641#Comment_3416641
- Hope your teammates help.
- Move to a pallet and hope for a pallet save.
- Fill up your rescue bar so a friend can get you up ASAP.
- Laugh as the Killer throws the game if he is camping your body.
Or do you think Survivors should get a free perk to stand up whenever they want, just because they say 'Slugging is not fun for us'?
@Hawk81584 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415808#Comment_3415808
so basically, bring unbreakable to avoid being slugged. and once ive used unbreakable the first time and i get slugged again. then what?
Basically this, bring unbreakable and use it wisely.
Slugging forces survivor interaction and teamwork which is a big part of the game.
The primary gripe here seems to be people don't want to wait out the 4 mins when the whole team is slugged and the killer is just letting them bleed out.
Now we don't want a mechanic that just basically removes slugging because its an important tool the killer has and its a mechanic the forces necessary teamwork from the survivors, survivor is about teamwork. Its also another motivation to no be caught by the killer and allows for all kinds of play such as baiting out pallet saves ect. Also downing all survivors and removing their ability to complete the objective is a legitimate way to win the game as killer.
Slugging in of itself is not a bad thing... so we don't need a mechanic that all but destroys it. Like built in UB.
How do we keep slugging but remove the tedious disliked wait of bleeding out while the killer doesn't hook?
The answer is to tweak the time it takes to bleed out in that scenario. We either shorten the time overall or introduce a mechanic that quickens the bleed out timer when all survivors are down and can't pick themselves up.
I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416234#Comment_3416234
How many time do I have to bleed out before It becomes a problem? 100? 1,000?
Infinite?
Well keeping it objective in answer to your vague loaded question, given its not really a problem you should be good to go no matter how many times you bleed out.
If you find yourself bleeding out a lot I'd work harder on avoiding the killer, maybe bring unbreakable if you really don't like it.
Hope that helps.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416527#Comment_3416527
Because it's still a fun game, just need tweaks. Kinda of like basketball when they put in a shot clock in 1954 to decrease stalling and just unfun play time.
They're were probably people like you saying "But stalling is part of the game!!!" Yeah well times changes friend.
That's why there is a timer, you bleed out and the game ends. The problem you are describing has already been fixed. The bleed out timer is the shot clock.
Yes the times have changed and they did so with the very fix you are describing.
So with reference to the new complaint... is the bleed out timer too long? I don't think so for reasons already discussed, but maybe they could reduce it by one minute down to 3 to further lessen the wait.
You've both posed and answered your own point so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make anymore.
You've also contradicted your other other point of the game is fun but not fun but lets just leave that eh.
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I kinda miss the days when games didn't force you through a 30min, sometimes longer, hand holding tutorial that tells you what each button does. Games used to be brutal and hard with little to no instruction.
Maybe that's why I kinda like DBD it's pretty brutal and gritty gameplay, not the most new player friendly.
What we need is solo survivor mode with bots. We have it for killer which is great. Wrack up some deaths and escapes in bot mode before diving into the deep end of online play.
It works for DBD as your game performance isn't based on what happened in your previous game. For things like mmo's where you progress and power up, to lose all your gear or progress to a kitted out veteran stifles the ability to really get into the game. But in DBD each game is an independent event. If you keep at it you are eventually gonna get something out of it, but like anything you are gonna eat a bunch of losses before that happens.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416514#Comment_3416514
My friend it just not fun not playing the game, you can write me a passive aggressive book all you want but laying on the ground and not contributing to the match isn't fun.
But continue on with your insults I'm sure they are the high light of your day.
"My friend it just not fun not playing the game," Then why play it, why are you here at all?
Call it passive aggressive if you wish, but you started with claiming what I was saying is bollocks the reason for which was "other people will complain about something else"
Its both aggressive and irrelevant, so I opted to give you some relevance but you don't have any good replies other than you don't find the game fun.
So I say again if you don't find it fun why are you here?
You don't need me to insult you, it seems like you are doing just fine beating yourself up on your own if you are spending your time playing a game you don't like and being angry about it. Why do that to yourself?
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416497#Comment_3416497
I like to remind audience that unbreakable only works once... And it's not tribal to think waiting four minutes while the killer dances around you is kinda bull
So you may need to apply some thought on when best to use it so as not to waste it. Thinking is good for the brain.
"O bollocks to that, if survivors could stop the killer from doing anything for 4 straight minutes the forums would be on fire" <- this is not the statement of an objective opinion. But making the point that "killers complain too" in a very "us vs them" kind of way, however factual it may turn out to be, doesn't legitimize your point or counter the points I have made.
I offered a solution to the scenario you pitch here, but you didn't read that did you?
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@KateMain86 said:
I think if the killer leaves you on the ground for too long you should be able to self recover without unbreakable. It would prevent situations like this from happening.
It also largely removes any real threat from being downed and the need for survivors to work as a team.
I don't need to come rescue you because if the killer doesn't immediately pick you up then you can pick yourself up.
Meaning I can just sit on this gen.
Survivor - Survivor interaction is just a vital to the game as killer- survivor interaction.
You could also just bring unbreakable, the tool designed to do what you are describing pick yourself up. That's what perks are for they augment gameplay in specific scenarios. Why have perks at all if we are just going to override any in game effects with base kits.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416234#Comment_3416234
O bollocks to that, if survivors could stop the killer from doing anything for 4 straight minutes the forums would be on fire
Ah the ol "other people complain so why can't we argument" as if that lends legitimacy to any kind of complaint. But lets unpack it anyway.
That does happen in a way, players whine all the time about survivors hanging out at the gates for the full 3min timer. Not exactly the same but its players whining about timers so semi relevant.
People whine no matter what side they choose to affiliate themselves with, moreso if they have chosen a particular side, because blind tribalism tends to obscure objectivity.
About the only time it makes sense to shorten the bleed out timer is if all players a slugged and there is no way to recover the team. It makes sense in that scenario to speed up the timer.
Otherwise 4min is not the end of the world any shorter and you'd probably bleed out too quick if repeatedly slugged throughout the game. (maybe 3 mins would work, but the goal is to give your teammates enough time to pick you up before you bleed out).
Also slugging, and knowing when to slug are important tools in the killer arsenal so we don't want to completely remove it.
A base kit UB would just render a lot of play options mute making it a relatively bad fix also.
Being downed needs to remain a genuine threat to avoid, if you could just pick yourself up for free then where is the threat? So not a great idea.
Its good advice to say if you don't like being slugged then bring unbreakable. There is a tool to help you escape from that condition so use it.
"But I want to avoid being slugged while still brining the build of my choice waah" is the common response to that and now we are moving into the realm player entitlement which leads to stale meta.
We can all bring the most optimal build possible every game because there are no in game effects we have to consider or avoid as the tools to avoid them are all built in. Why have perks at all at that point?
So the ol mantra goes lets get rid of this one "boring' effect because it takes too long, by making the game less varied, threatening, exciting and generally more stale on the whole, that'll fix the bor... er... wait a minute?
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@maximo99ac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416443#Comment_3416443
my dude the thing last 12 seconds, use your brain count up to twelve and down them but you make this sound like something that happens every game but ever since base bt was added i can count the times this happened to me with the fingers of one hand
in the other hand killers that know how to count up to twelve and then tunnels one guy out of the game with five gens left happens 1/5 games
I think you missed the point, the OP isn't complaining about being body blocked with BT they are talking about players who body block using BT then expect to be left alone and not targeted again off hook.
But if a player uses base kit BT to body block for their rescuer they can't really complain about getting tunneled because they created a scenario where they were the best target to chase.
My suggestion to the OP is in that scenario chase whomever you feel like and let the whiners whine about it.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416234#Comment_3416234
just because its part of the game doesnt make it any less boring and frustrating
One could argue that the threat of being slugged is a great motivator to avoid being caught making games intense and interesting.
The more uncomfortable the consequences the higher the stakes. I appreciate that threat as it’s what makes dbd an interesting game to play.
Bleeding out is timed and that timer is relatively short. When slugged I like to try and crawl to a good hiding spot to avoid being picked up and hooked thus preserving my hook states in the event I do get healed.
The goal is to avoid the killer so that if all slugged and bleeding out you are the last one who can play for hatch. Crawling toward common hatch spawn sites is a good bet and gotten me an escape more than once.
The game isn’t over till everyone is dead and I’ll play it to the bitter end. There is nothing boring or frustrating about that, it’s all in your head.
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@Jace233 said:
The game is bleeding players because the core design of the game and killers never change.
Needs new killer designs that really challenge both the killer and survivors. Every killer besides nurse just starts to feel the same the more you play. Needs more variation and wacky designs like hers (but not OP).
While yes more varied designs are needed to keep the game fresh.
I’m afraid it’s not bleeding players the way people seem to go on about. Every now and then you get some doomsayer misinterpreting steam charts when if you look closely at those charts average player count is pretty stable.
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Wow lot of emotion, assumptions and insults here.
No matter what you do in game someone else will probably find it unfun. All you can do is focus on your own enjoyment.
This doesn’t mean you don’t care about other people’s fun, it’s just that the only thing you can really control is your own enjoyment.
Players will make all kinds of demands of their opponents to make the game more fun but the reality is the only person who can make the game fun for them is themselves.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415950#Comment_3415950
Forcing bleed outs is trying to make the game miserable😭
Bleeding out is just part of the game and a rather thematic part at that.
It takes 4 mins in accumulated time which is not long at all.
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remember “content creators” belong to this very exclusive group called anybody.
So basically anybody with a laptop and a camera can be a content creator, meaning there is absolutely no reason to take anything any one of them says seriously.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415808#Comment_3415808
I don't have a gripe. I'm empathising with this particular scenario. Unbreakable basekit is not something I want and it's more my fear that, should slugging become too common and enough complain, it may be brought in to reconsideration at some point.
Survivors don't want a lot of things: slugging, tunnelling, camping, certain killers, certain scenarios, NOED. However, they only have 4 perk slots to help. My comment was simply to state that hindsight advice isn't always helpful. It's just whatever happens in the draw.
Sure, even so none of these things are something to get angry about As the OP puts it “making the game miserable for the opponent” it’s just gameplay.
Without these things there is very little variation in game outcome.
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As others have pointed out it would be hard to do with teams on comms and hud display.
But I’d love The Thing as a killer. Impersonating a survivor.
Outpost 31 could be a new map with indoor and outdoor setting or even ice station Thule the Norwegian base.
McReady as the survivor, skins for Windows, The chief, doc, Palmer etc.
That would be sweet.
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I enjoy the game of cat and mouse.
If survivors are hiding scared it means you are doing something right as killer.
Cocky survivors whom get in your face is fine too but it can be so un-immersive.
This game shines when it resembles a genuine survival horror and that requires survivors to be running scared for the most part.