jonifire
jonifire
About
- Username
- jonifire
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
I would like if the illusions of him run to the survivor before standing still, so people are maybe getting mindgamed and scared a bit.
-
@moulesfrites said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599080#Comment_3599080
I just want his static field back
While in Treatment Mode, The Doctor generates a Static Field within his Terror Radius, which passively increases Survivors' Madness based on their proximity to The Doctor.
That’s cool
-
@luvcraft said:
yes, looking at it more his camera is definitely much lower and closer to him. Why did they change this?? Having a 3rd person view was part of what made him good.
Maybe when the FOV slider comes they make it bigger again, so they nerfed it now and so it has the same later
-
@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598657#Comment_3598657
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598649#Comment_3598649
That straight up made me hawk my drink back up
😂
-
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598891#Comment_3598891
Probably not being able to see them as Sadako, depending on how much information that would give her since condemned is a Mori, but something that surrounds survivors that effects them depending on their condemned level. For example 1 condemned would see very minor glitching occasionally but 5 stacks would see it happen more often and sometimes see a false demanifested Sadako standing on the outer rim of the demanifest vision range coming in and out.
Maybe if it‘s a running around Sadako, which disappears behind objects it would work
-
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598891#Comment_3598891
Probably not being able to see them as Sadako, depending on how much information that would give her since condemned is a Mori, but something that surrounds survivors that effects them depending on their condemned level. For example 1 condemned would see very minor glitching occasionally but 5 stacks would see it happen more often and sometimes see a false demanifested Sadako standing on the outer rim of the demanifest vision range coming in and out.
Yes that would be nice, but it‘s doctors thing, therefore I don‘t see it happen.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598851#Comment_3598851
You misunderstood.
I said, that she is adapted very well in dbd.
In saw, Amanda rigges the bathroom game in saw1, the school game in saw3 and detective Kerry's game also in saw3.
What can you do in dbd? You can interrupt survivors while searching boxes. Therefore rigging their test. This is wonderful but subtle adaption of the source material.
However, the gameplay should not become horrible. After over 2k hours of playing Amanda and witnessing the change to her rng the last time, I have to say, that the traps are in the best state they have ever been. Maybe they are even a bit too strong. She is already performing dangerously well against weaker survivors just because of the traps. Making them stronger in any form, especially in regard to punishing weaker survivors is NOT the way to go.
The only thing she needs are number changes to increase her chase potential.
I only don‘t want nerves for her. If she gets buffed she doesn‘t need nerves at the same time.
For perks working with boxes especially with huntress lullaby it wouldn‘t be that bad, it‘s a boon, which can be distroyed.
-
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598394#Comment_3598394
You know how Doctor has his fake illusions? Imagine if by how high your condemned was, you'd see similar distortions that demanifested Sadako has when she's just barely in view on approach, escalating in intensity as condemned rises to the point where you do see fake Sadakos. Just a personal want though.
Passive TV condemned could be neat, but the problems I see are both TV placements are kinda jank sometimes and if BHVR would allow it to happen between floors, since that has been a thing they've tweaked with other powers like Skull Merchant drones and whatnot.
You mean there are illusions which Sadako can see over the map where survivors are?
Or do you mean the demanifest illusions appear more around her?
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598590#Comment_3598590
Now I feel insulted. I have 2k hours on pig. I mastered the moondashes and created a list on all invisible ambush hitboxes on any loop in dbd. I analyzed EVERY mechanical part of the pigs ambush and dare I say perfected that part of her power. The pigs ambush never got nerfed. It works as always. I know that. I use it. I can do all the tricks you mentioned. I DO THEM ACTIVLY IN MY MATCHES.
Now I have a question for you. Have you ever seen saw? John, Hoffmann or Amanda never interact with test subject directly. Saw is imemented perfectly in dbd. The traps have no interaction between killer and survivor because that's the hole point. The survivor has to overcome a struggle on their own.
If you don't like how the pig works, she's not for you. That's fine. I don't like blight, Nurse, or Wesker. We all have different taste of gameplay.
Pig feels very immersive and truthful to the movies. I think we should appreciate that and recall, what this game is about.
In the third Movie amanda gave the survivors unfair games that they couldn‘t win so it would be fine buffing traps interrupting them usw story wise
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598742#Comment_3598742
Mk im just going by where i normally see him placed by others. How he feels to play. His disadvantages compared to other killers (being pure m1) he does have insane addons (like tombstone) but also addons like stalk movement speed. And even tombstone makes him barely decent. Hes also the only one to permanently run out of his power.
True
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
The forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer, would still be in the game. So 360s could still help trigger that.
Everyone should be aware that 360s actually help trigger a bug that can literally steal hits from the killer. And most players aren’t even aware this bug is in the game.
Isn‘t that the lunge only stops an attack if you stop holding the attack button
-
@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598413#Comment_3598413
It was part of the game...accidentally. Let's not act like the devs invented the 360 tech because they didn't. It was something that fans came up with after simply playing the game, and just like Blight's hug tech BS, I think it needs to go. New people have enough trouble playing Killer. We never needed something as silly as the 360 tech to make the game more enjoyable. Completely destroys the immersion as Killer. That's for sure.
Someone getting closer to you makes them harder to hit? Never made sense. The new FOV slider will get rid of that for most people. Glad it'll be gone.
It’s just something you have to learn, it‘s not heavy just annoying. And if they remove that the game loses another aspect, which made it more lively.
Making it more difficult so would be fine, but getting rid of it isn‘t a good thing.
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598733#Comment_3598733
I thought myers is the lowest now after trappers buffs?
Myers has the strongest addons in the game.
-
@Avo said:
So they nerfed everything about survivors and it's time to nerf the movement of survivors too? 360 is always a thing, what do guys wants us to do, just stand still and give a free hit?
I agree that it should stay. I play both roles the same time and I always hate, when things get nerved into the ground or get removed on both sides
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598612#Comment_3598612
Honestly im more excited for his addon pass since i can mostly play his current form. But making overheat even more non-existant i won't complain about. Just the fact big bucke, black grease, and pighouse gloves exists. I hate it so much.
You mean billy right? If yes, new addons would be great. I only use the higher turning one(purple) and running threw pallets one (purple) and others to fill up.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598489#Comment_3598489
Ahh ok. I did not mean to shame you, it's just an example of language barrier.
I assume you place on console then. I have little experience playing with a controller, so I am not sure, if playing with Shadowborn is going to help in that case. The best 360s I've seen so far started out as a FOV tech, which is a lot harder when the killer has shadowborn. The question here is, can you hit the spinning target? If you can, then the FOV slider might help you, if not, then the FOV slider will not help either.
Yes I‘m playing on ps5. Shadowborn helps me a lot with high mobility killers, without it I loose track where people are, while running with blight for example. After people doing 360s too many times, I concentrate on hitting them and it‘s not that big of a problem just annoying (especially PC). I think the slider will help, but I‘m worried that another aspect of the game is lost like, hook grapps, camping etc.
I think perks should handle problems like camping and tunneling. So AFC I think should be Status effect for many perks, like for example the one from rebeca: reassurance and others
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598639#Comment_3598639
Another post I think, described different challenges for the boxes, that would be nice, a little bit more variety in the mini games...
Yes that would also be cool
-
@Avo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598632#Comment_3598632
At least they are loopable.
😂
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598442#Comment_3598442
As a fellow (though relatively new) Pig Main, I agree with this assessment whole heartedly.
While learning the Pig as my first character, I watched a sizable number of hours of videos from several different Pig mains, and that, combined with my own play and application of what I've learned sees the exact same thing.
Pig's headtrap lethality is what keeps her numbers up, and its her chase where she is weakest.
My changes would have been: -
- Crouching movement speed +5% (3.60 -> 3.8 m/s)
- Ambush charges +33% faster (0.75 -> 0.5s).
- Ambush scream starts after 70% charge (0.35s).
- Ambush lunge time +20% (2.0 -> 2.5s)
- Progress on Jigsaw boxes is not lost on interruption.
I don't think she needs both ambush move speed and duration, especially if we're charging faster and with less warning. I also would like to keep the ability to mind game with the charge where I can cancel the roar for a bait.
All these chase buffs though must warrant a nerf to her RBTs, as they are the most potent part of her kit, and while it should be a threat, it shouldn't be the main thing making Amanda viable.
Progress not being lost (or at least degrading) is a double edged sword... it drastically reduces the potency of RBTs, as screams, the Deep wound add-ons, etc, etc no longer create problems for survivors. There is an amount of how much of the Pig's uniqueness from RBTs are we willing to lose to improve her chase. Your change is less severe, and I like it, I'm not sure if all the buffs to chase would be balanced out enough by this nerf to make the RBTs fair?
Of course my proposal needs tweaks to John's Medical File and Workshop Grease. I'd be worried about the power of these if these changes were made. A 4.2m/s stealth Pig with 0.25s ambush charge just might he a little much xD
Last Will is probably fine.
I agree with everything except of nerving the traps. The scream factor should only go if other skill check perks would interact with her box.
I don‘t think that she would be to good with those changes, but a bit more of a threat.
-
@Rigbeta said:
Power Tweaking and Additional Special Abilities:
Jigsaw's Baptism:
The Pig starts the trial with 4 Syringes and 4 Inactive Reverse Bear Traps.
While standing over a Survivor in the Dying State, press the active ability button to place an Inactive Reverse Bear Trap on a the survivor.
Reverse Bear Traps become Active when a Generator is completed, or when the endgame collapse starts.
Survivors can only free themselves from an Active Reverse Bear Trap by searching a Jigsaw Box for the correct Key.
Active Reverse Bear Trap:
When Reverse Beartraps become Active, they initiate a countdown timer. A Survivor with an active Reverse Bear Trap is automatically sacrificed when their timer expires or they attempt to leave the trial with the Active Reverse Bear Trap still attached.
Special Ability: Crouch
Press the active ability button to Crouch. While Crouching, The Pig moves at a moderately slower speed, but will move at a slightly slower speed after 5 seconds of uninterrupted crouching. The Pig is granted the Undetectable status effect while Crouched.
Special Attack: Ambush
Press and hold the attack button while Crouched to Dash and perform an Ambush Attack to injure a survivor by one health state.
Special Ability: Needle-Stick Ambush
Press and hold the secondary ability button while crouched to instead perform a Needle-Stick Ambush on a survivor. Successfully hitting a survivor will result in the Pig injecting the survivor with a Syringe, causing the survivor to become Drugged for 45 seconds.
A successful Needle-Stick Ambush removes 1 Syringe for the rest of the trial.
Special Ailment: Drugged
Survivors that have been Drugged will have a distorted view, a significantly slower turn rate, cannot perform rushed vaults, and be unable to wiggle while being carried by The Pig.
Drugged cannot wear off while a Survivor is in the Dying State or on a Sacrificial Hook.
I would like that the traps get active, when the endgame collapse starts.
I wouldn‘t like a weaker crouch.
To needle stick ambush I have no real opinion, I think more abilities and a new status effect would also be nice.
Her ambush should be made better, faster to start, more movement speed and longer. Right now the survivor gets too much distance when you roar, that it isn‘t really worth it to use it. Instead just m1.
I want perks to interact with the box skill checks, it would be so nice.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/398655/pig-rework-idea
I like the change to the crouch however I don't think slapping a status effect on the dash is a good idea... Besides that point that the blurry vision might induce motion sickness or what not.
I think the way to go is just to make the dash stronger.
I saw a post some time ago where the dash gets stronger if you have been crouched for some time before using it.
That would be one way.
The other thing I thought about is basically having a standing ambush that has its current strength and modifying the crouched ambush with a multi-plyer of like 1.5x or so... This allows you to use the standing dash if the m1 attack just wont reach and makes the crouched ambush more viable around safer tiles.
This gives pig more strength but also increasing her skill ceiling, which is basically always a good thing if a character gets more depth.
My problem with slapping status effects on special attacks is that it makes the character stronger without giving the player something to do or learn about it, sure you have a form of Ressource management there, but that's all, it does not make the dash more viable around certain tiles or means you have to learn how and where to use it now.
Doesn‘t Clown already have something that makes your vision blurry and wouldn‘t that be the same, because you said it could give you motion sickness.
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598572#Comment_3598572
Killer after people still complain and BHVR tries to satisfy them : 1 / 10.
Sadako already depends on green and iridescent addons and slugging to function. If they intend to nerf those, they better significantly buff her somehow, otherwise she will join the forgot club along with Freddy, Xeno, Singularity, Billy and few others.
Singularity isn‘t something for everybody, you have to like him to sweat for those kills. For me the emps are way too frustrating.
Billy isn‘t week, but he could be better. I have no problems playing him.
-
I don‘t know what I do wrong, but head pops aren‘t that easy to get. You make it sound like a common thing.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598431#Comment_3598431
it would be cool if they made new effect have a token system. Each time you freshly hook a new survivor, Gain 1 token. For every token gain the following effects.
- reduces your terror radius by 2 when outside a chase.
- Increases your terror radius by 2 when inside a chase.
This additional to the current effect that reduces your by -8 when outside a chase and increase the TR by 8 when inside a chase. Your are probably right... that they'll just remove FOV most likely.
That‘s cool, I thought the old furtive chase did that in the past after I realized, that it was only reduced in chase.
-
I wanted to add two more things:
- When the trap is inactive, after searching a box the trap activates
- Also I would want that the places where boxes are located are less obvious (so that her addon rule number two would be better)
-
@Xernoton said:
It will not be completely gone but it will be harder. Then again, what killers do you actually succeed with a 360 against? Mostly inecperienced killers, who already struggle. And they will not suddenly get much better in playing around these. The FOV slider does not change the killer's weapon hitbox after all.
Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "brighter sight". The game doesn't become less dark because of it.
I don‘t know if you know what I mean when you have words in other languages, that sound the same and mean the same in your language, but in an other language they mean something completely different or you wouldn’t say it like that.
Al lot of pc players 360 me, because they move so weird. Sometimes I also 360 someone, but I rarely try, because I‘m afraid of getting hit.
I mean that you have bigger view, like with shadow born.
-
I think he is fine, but could get a buff in curving and a smaller hitbox to not hit everything.
-
In General to fix boon spawns they should swap the position with another boon, when survivors get close (3m) to the boon in the first 20s.
-
It would be cool to get a ghost face picture and others from prestige, right next to your name.
-
I think her undetectable is a bit to much, compared with ghost face it‘s almost better.
Ghost face has a far too long cooldown, where skull merchant has almost none.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
The whole aspect that spinning in circles somehow makes them miss you was always silly. Seriously try that in a fight.
It‘s maybe silly, but part of the game. When Pc players do that I only hate it, because it‘s far harder to hit them as console players.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597378#Comment_3597378
there can be instant teleport with no cooldown and global condemn. you only have to add cooldown for condemn to be applied. I can agree with survivors turning off TV's as being too long. I think it is suppose to be an anti 3 gen mechanic so that sadako does not constantly teleport to same TV over and over to build up condemn. Now with tapes turning off mechanic, it does not have reason to exist. It is main purpose is to give sadako information that you pick-up a tape. 60 second is a lot of time to notice a tape pick-up. If they were improving TV TP flexibility, cooldown would need to be heavily reduced to something like 25-30 seconds.
As I said though, I do not see them buffing sadako because she is a lot stronger then before. When I see Onryo on roadmap, I see it as Onryo received many negative changes to make less effective because of casual players struggling escape against her. So thinking about Teleport buffs and Phase-walk Anti-loop buffs are not something that I think the roadmap is referencing. I fully expect her to become another Freddy.
I think if they make condemned have a cooldown, it will be more useless then the old one. I only hope the good changes/ buffs (tv cooldowns, pralltet immunity…) stay and I get my instant tp back with no cooldowns, for that the new tape must go. With the new tapes survivors deactivate all the TVs close to them, because it‘s the counter for condemned.
I wrote a new comment in the feedback section and also others, if someone wants to join us there.
I think this discussion has a bit too many text right now, no one new will read and instead just ignore what is written here.
-
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598152#Comment_3598152
There are some very good options you've laid out here. I'd like to go over a few that stuck out to me:
- TV short cooldowns would benefit both increased condemned presence and bring back Sadako's map traversal without dealing with cooldowns. Another suggestion I see people say is attach the condemned to the cooldown and not the teleport, both very good options.
- Increased condemned radius buildup depending on TV proximity is also a suggestion I've seen but want to put emphasis on a great idea.
- One of my wishlists for Sadako's manifest/demanifest, or really condemned in general is she gets visual tricks kinda like doctor madness while you're demanifested and not in chase, but your suggestions for more glitching and such is also a good alternative.
- I'm still split on tapes in general, but if we did go back to her old version the prior suggestions to improve and make condemned more consistant is all I truly want. Tapes being more important then they were made me soften up to newer Sadako.
Overall very good suggestions, I'd be happy if at least half of these things plus the QoL we currently have with no-stun demanifest came to be.
What do you mean with visuel tics in your third point?
What do you think about getting condemned passively in a range around TVs (16m), which gives you a small amount of condemned over time. Survivors would have to take a tape. Also when they have a tape it protects you from the passive condemned not the TV-tp condemned, but instead you get it from the tape. So people couldn‘t just ignore the TVs close to them.
-
@ChaosWam said:
Hey all, it's that time again with another Sadako change whether we want it or not on the horizon. I have some mixed opinions on the subject as well as concerns about whatever BHVR's plans are to revert back to how she originally played so I thought I'd compile it all together. This will be a long read, folks, due to needing to go over everything I can think of to get a full picture.
Before I begin I want to express that no, I don't dislike further changes because I like how lethal Sadako is right now, how oppressive she can be, how 'unfun' or 'fun' she is to play at the moment, skill issues, or her more broken playstyles or anything like that. This is purely a mechanics standpoint comparing the two iterations of Sadako we got, as well as what I can recall about the old Sadako design. I currently have 1,729 hours in DBD and at the very least 60% of it was with Sadako, so hopefully I have the experience to touch this topic. This will also be a walk down memory lane to remind us all how she used to be.
Part 1: Sadako's Release, 8th of March 2022
I will start by explaining this was about the time I joined the game and was ignorant about things like 'powers' and 'loops' and 'gen times' and whatever the hell a locker's function is. I wasn't focused on how strong Sadako was, I bought the game because of the J-Horror representation, so I'm doing research on this topic for full clarity.
My personal experience with her at the time was she was very fun. Teleporting around quickly was nice, TV's could be a problem when they were off, and as far as I knew she felt balanced. And then I tried other killers after awhile and slowly realized 'Wait a second, there are stealth killers who do this better' along other things, like the lack of an anti-loop. And remember, this was before some general killer animation speed buffs, she still had slow pallet breaking and what not.
So for this section I looked up some at-the-time thoughts on Sadako so I turned to our favorite (or not I don't know anymore) Otzdarva at the time of her release and I agree with some of his points as of her release:
---
https://youtu.be/GQzzEHm5eZk?si=vLyPit6vNyJNktdc&t=343
I set the time to his idea of her spot on the tier list of his (which I think Wraith was better personally but that's subjective) so give that a listen, if you want to skip it I'll go over things he pointed out below:
"You don't have any anti-loop" - I hope every Sadako main remembers this specifically. We didn't even have anti-stun in demanifest and we couldn't even have the Wraith speed boost post manifest to catch up around loops. We had the intermittent image, to be fair and can be a good mindgame tool, but good survivors play around that pretty easily and it's not useful around short wall loops if they know which direction you fake. At tall loops at the very least that short amount of time hides your red stain, but it doesn't matter when a lot of loops have safe distance to the pallet. Sadako was and always will be effectively an M1 killer with no chase power.
"Coming out of a TV will only catch survivors off guard so often" - This is very true, even now. Sadako has to go through an entire animation before moving again, which is enough time for a survivor to get to a safe place. Back then, I believe the condemned only built up after the animation ended, so survivors could completely avoid condemned stacks simply by moving outside the 16m(?) range. "16m is enough, most TVs are near gens" I hear you possibly saying. But I'd also like to point out there's plenty of TVs that aren't near gens and even facing the outside walls of the map (Looking at you, SWAMPS) and you still have enough time to run outside the radius with Sprint Burst, sometimes without it before the condemned stack hits. It's more consistant with current Sadako with the global condemned, but we'll get to that.
"Very perk dependent" - I know this one very well. I started Sadako with the base perks and her own. Once I got BBQ from the Shrine it was a game changer. Nurse's Calling was also VERY good in those situations you had everyone hurt, though remember this was the CoH meta so survivors didn't stay injured long. She also pretty much required gen regression because she couldn't end chases quickly and gens could FLY.
"Right now the best strategy is to completely ignore the tapes" - This I remember the most about old Sadako. Players barely interacted with tapes because for the most part, it was the best strategy. If you can avoid getting condemned by running away during a teleport, then you won't ever need to touch a tape. Heck, back then I didn't even know Sadako had a built in Mori, mostly because I didn't fully understand what a Mori was at the time and I didn't focus on stacking condemned because it felt overall pointless. Even when I did learn and attempted to force it, it takes too much time if survivors don't go near TVs and loop the strongest ones near TVs that are already off. And even when they take tapes, that's less TVs you have to teleport to, they can insert the tapes in your face if they were healthy (and they mostly were due to medkits/CoH at the time) and chasing them with a tape didn't have it build up the condemned due to it pausing like a pig trap. Heck my best build to defend gens had the VCR addon to make fake projections to every active TV and Deadman's Switch so every teleport I did would result in multiple blocked gens due to survivors actively avoiding condemned.
"I imagine that very good Onryo players will make her powerful" - Oh my sweet summer child, ignorant in March of 2022, we will get to that.
---
I use Otz as the main example, and I'd also like to point out LOTS of people slept on Sadako due to her lack of power and influence over the other killers. When the recent changes were announced, I remember a handful of content creators had no real opinions on it because they didn't play Sadako and didn't know if it was good or not.
But to go back to old Sadako, here are some further and last second memories I had with the power:
Manifest: The mindgames you can do are great, but only when it works. I have actually gotten to the point where I didn't run the addons to increase invisibility times during the manifest because I knew when to move back and forth between intermittency. That said, it didn't always work because survivors expected it and stood in areas of a loop that meant safety near a pallet or window, or would just hold W to the next spot. Not being able to be bodyblocked is amazing for hunting down injured survivors, but only when that works too. You slow down a tad when manifesting, giving survivors enough time to block you again and you can't block windows while demanifested.
Chase Power - There was none. That's honestly all I have to say about it. If you think Sadako has a chase power, play Huntress or Deathslinger for examples of a chase power. M1 is not a chase power.
The Addition Of The Heartbeat Sensor - Guess what people learned around this time? Sadako's demanifest has a lullaby! And it can be seen on the heartbeat sensor added in March, 2023. So now her stealth has a toggle in the settings so you can see if she's near and run away even sooner! Now don't get me wrong, I like the hearbeat sensor and use it myself, but her having a lullaby in stealth is... Bad.
And now, we come to the biggest one and one that became a controversy to this day...
Condemned - Remember when I said condemned was virtually non-existant because survivors could avoid it completely? Well, someone found the loophole. This is for you Otz 'Good Onryo Players Will Make Her Powerful' 2022 Darva:
https://youtu.be/ugPWMMbYg70?si=xwE-PGgrmMVJUAQT
I don't know if this was the first showcase of this playstyle, but as far as I can tell it's popular enough. Condemned slugging roughly got it start around OnePumpWillie and further expanded upon after this video. If you like it or hate it, you have to admit someone did indeed find a way to force condemned. And people hated it for a very long time, even to this day and our current Sadako.
For those unaware, old Sadako's tapes built up condemned when not in chase. Pair this with the addon Ring Drawing, which spreads condemned on healing, and something like Tape Editing Deck to force everyone to start with one and you can harass a player out of the game pretty early. Later on, iirc, it evolved into the dreaded Gen Kick Meta™ using perks like Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption which were far more powerful then they are now. So Sadako players could hold games hostage, slug most players, and build condemned off of picking up survivors by itself. Currently, ring drawing only does this on healing to full health, but back then? Good luck against a competent Sadako running this. No longer did you have to maybe persuade survivors to take tapes by getting precise teleports and praying it stacks when this was an option.
At this point, there was a rift between 'Sadako is extremely weak' and 'Sadako has the most broken playstyle in the game' So in conclusion, old Sadako was weak with one very oppressive playstyle, but could be fun to play for those who put the time into her. Her teleport felt fun, but was held back by a lack of a threat and easily countered, while also somehow being able to be completely ignored. Things have changed, obviously, but back then survivors saw Sadako as a joke or pointless to play unless you ran condemned slug, and once that ramped up people saw Sadako as a problem that needed changing, weaker parts needed buffed and condemned slug + gen kick meta needed to go. I remember people DCing against my Sadako because of that playstyle when I just ran Surge and Deadman's Switch to keep gens from getting rushed out so I could enjoy the chases, even insulted in endgame chat for a playstyle I didn't agree with for my own views on her or even run.
So now, we move on to the next segment:
Part 2: Sadako's Rework - The turning of the Tide (Get it? Tide? Oh forg-)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JXS9U2C3ACDG/capture-png.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0IRCMR0HBI4X/capture-png.png
Remember when this was shown off? So many players cried out together, 'Sadako? I don't play her so who cares?' and 'They nerfed an already bad killer!' Good times. We were so young back then, we knew so little of the consequences.
I myself was part of the skeptical. I liked how Sadako felt, so hearing about a cooldown on teleport, 3/4th stacks, and increased survivor TV cooldowns, no bloodlust in demanifest as well as being able to place a tape into any TV sounded like an absolute nerf on paper, though being unable to be stunned while demanifested was nice. Plus we had addons to look forward to being changed, so no more condemned slugging, right?
Then we played the PTB for a bit, and we still thought her changes felt very off and most Sadako mains didn't know how to feel or felt she was nerfed and not fun. So BHVR changed some things!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QTHYN73ER7PK/capture-png.png
The swap from hooking with a tape spreading condemned to breaking the tape on hit for 2 stacks didn't really phase people's opinions at the time, just was another 'What are they thinking?' moment. That said, lots of people enjoyed the lower TV cooldowns, but were still iffy about her having a power cooldown. I remember thinking it was needed since condemned was now global, but should have been a cooldown on the condemned, not the teleport.
I could not find a full list of addon changes for some reason (or delirious from writing all this) but user boom from YT seems to have a few visual changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBC7g-45X6g
To add to this, they also changed:
Reiko's Watch: 50% longer invisibility during demanifested --> 33%. What?
Well Stone: Reduces the time it takes for a TV to turn on after having been turned off by a Survivor by -7 seconds. I think this was -6 seconds before? I can't remember because I never ran it and finding this info is getting difficult, truth be told. If you know it, let me know and I'll edit this.
Distorted Photo: Survivors witnessing The Onryō Manifest within 16 metres of them scream. --> Added 'revealing their Aura for 4 seconds'. Honestly this addon is slept on now, the aura reading and scream info is great when it works.
If there is more, let me know.
---
Back on track here, people were either giving up Sadako completely believing this was a huge nerf, or saying this doesn't fix her issues at all. The PTB didn't inspire anyone much and even I was concerned my playstyle of having TVs on for the VCR/Deadmans to go off would be butchered.
And then time passed.
Part 3: How I Learned To Love The Condemned.
I remember the first week or so learning the new Sadako. She was my main after all, and by god I'll learn her even if she's nerfed to the ground! And it was around that time I noticed something... Strange. Condemned was building fast, survivors didn't touch tapes as usual and... I got 3/4 Moris? What? 2 gens left? What is this?
Turns out, either people don't read patch notes much or they were too used to old Sadako. Suddenly, the changes started to click in my head. My VCR/Deadmans switch combination was still working. And oddly enough, my mind was slowly changing. Good survivors still learned to grab tapes early and those games were an uphill battle, sure, but condemned was still a threat. Survivors had to touch tapes now. Gen progression was slower. Survivors didn't take Sadako as lightly (except the ones ignoring tapes still good god the amount of times to this day they still don't-) and my playstyle didn't change at all
Granted, I still thought some things were off. She was still an M1 killer and looping her was still easy and I lost plenty of matches to good survivors, but on the other end of the spectrum, survivors cried out she was actually overpowered. She can spam teleport every 10 seconds, deny tapes by keeping TVs off, and it was too difficult to find tapes fast enough. All good arguments, even if I think she had counterplay with the tapes. The arguments I have for current Sadako stand as such:
Chase is still bad. - She can get 2 stacks if she hits you, sure, but she has to hit you. She's still an M1 killer, still lacks in loops and chase, and even lost bloodlust gain when demanifested, so if she wants to avoid stuns she loses building up speed. She relies heavy on mindgames and perks still to make up for that.
Tapes needed to be taken seriously now - To this day I still get survivors ignoring tapes until the last second. I have a perfect meme from the time I still (mostly) believe in today:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PS6AS72BNPPE/capture-png.png
(Side note if you use reddit check out the creator of this image u/goofestgoober makes great memes)
All that said, she's not weaker than she was like we all thought. If you didn't respect her counterplay, she'll absolutely make players suffer. Especially SoloQ, she pubstomps there. Good players can communicate and work around it, but she's gotten a higher KD recently for a reason. I think those of us who still played Sadako felt like this:
(Same meme creator btw)
The other problem I should address is, well, condemned slugging and tunneling out someone with condemned is still a problem. If a survivor doesn't respect their tapes early, Sadako can target them out quickly, tunnel off hook, and get an early Mori fast if the survivor doesn't loop well. Ring drawing was fixed to stop downed survivor pickups from spreading condemned but with condemned now being a global threat with tapes giving even more on break, addons like Mother's Comb for TV information and Iri Tape to force players to use tapes on specific TVs become extremely problematic tools for quick kills.
---
So to summerize the current Sadako:
No more freely moving around TV to TV quickly in exchange for global condemned and a survivor secondary objective.
Tapes are more important and more dangerous to interact with if you're not careful.
Global condemned also means quick kills with the right addons/builds.
She's much stronger power wise but mechanically weaker in chase without the right addons/perks.
And lastly, her problematic playstyles are still there, if not worse due to SoloQ being unable to coordinate or having players who don't pick up the tapes fast enough or split up early to do so.
With all this in mind, I played Sadako now almost like I did before. Focus on splitting up hooks, use condemned as a threat, and use mindgames like the VCR/Deadmans combo. If anything, the changes made it easier on me because survivors have a back and forth with the power now. I don't even feel the teleport cooldown anymore because I know where I want to be at any given moment to apply pressure or subvert expectations of where I'm coming from.
I see old Sadako mains say she's not fun to play anymore, but I honestly don't see why. She doesn't feel very different aside the teleport cooldown, and if you teleported that much with old Sadako and her TV cooldowns, you were honestly opening yourself up to less strategic movements.
With the right adjustments to condemned buildup, I honestly think this current Sadako would be perfectly fine. Mechanically, she feels like the threat the original movie made her feel like, as survivors slowly (arguably) become more condemned and having to actually engage with the tapes to avoid certain death.
So anyway BHVR is changing her-
Part 4 - IS NEVER THE END IS NEVER THE END IS NEVER THE END
So BHVR wants to bring Sadako back to how she used to be. Fine. Okay. I didn't get used to a controversial power change and somehow actually enjoy the mechanics and back and forth and coping with an extremely long post nobody will read. I'm fine, I swear.
Joking aside, I think it's fine, she has a high KD and people can't work around her easily, but I'm concerned because I legitimately enjoy tapes being a core part of her counterplay now and I actually care about the character enough to NOT want her to be nuked into oblivion because survivors couldn't pick up the counterplay fast enough. Old Sadako really feels more and more like a joke to me the more I look back, and it comes down to how little interaction with her power survivors had. Sure her movement was fun, but that's about the only positive I can think of. If they can somehow retain the fun movement with the necessity of tapes, I'd be all for it.
HOWEVER, BHVR changes are strange. I fear that they may give her the Freddy treatment and make her even worse than she was before. So, at the very least, here are my suggestions:
- Keep TV cooldowns low. Having TVs more active means more movement and more Condemned involvement.
- Remove lullaby TR. Surprise hits are her best weapon due to not having a chase power.
- Give tapes a reason to be touched. Larger condemned radius from teleporting, applying condemned ON teleport NOT after animation, SOMETHING.
- Keep the anti-stun in demanifest. It's honestly a QoL for Sadako.
- DO NOT NERF ANY OF THE ABOVE. I beg.
- Be able to move the camera a little bit during the teleport animation. Being able to look a little to the left and right could help with spotting survivor movements and planning ahead.
- Fix her addons. Reiko's Watch especially. Didn't need the nerf. I'd also argue to bring back old Iri Tape's effect of turning on the last 4 TVs used on hit, but that depends on balance with current cooldowns.
This is all assuming they go nuclear on the current Sadako. In short, please respect your players, the game balance, and the interactivity of Sadako in your upcoming changes BHVR. I beg.
If I forgot anything or glossed over something, let me know. I'll add/edit anything I may have missed. I've played Sadako for so long so I tried to remember everything I could and research what I could for things I forgot. I need to go touch grass no- nevermind it's snowing.
I really hope the old one with no cooldows comes back, because that was why I played her. You made very good points. I never played for condemned, so she was killed for me. After reading everything I agree that with the current one games are slown down a lot and that I ended up three gening a lot before her rework, because it was quite easy to defend the last gen.
I wanted to give some ideas:
Tvs
- Very short to no cooldowns so people if they want to take you the ability to be everywhere instant they have to take a tape
- TVs also have a area around them where you get condemned by just being close.
Tp
- speed boost after crawling out of the tv
- looking around like you said
- the radius close to the tvs which give you condemned gets increased and splitted in three parts. First radius around the radius from before the rework 0,5 stacks, in the radius before her rework 1 stack and close to the TVs 2 stacks. That would reward you to chase them to TVs. I don‘t know, which numbers I should use there.
- I didn‘t know before I read your post that the condemned was only applied after the tp animation so that should change too
- Other idea, which someone had in the #bringbackoldsadako discussion was that areas of for example 16m around TVs give one stack condemned. I liked that one.
Demanifast/Manifast
- Faster switch between both forms
- more lagging and glitching around, so that they don‘t know where you are
- pallet immunity like now
- chase count as chases in demanifast
- The demanifast glitching should stay for longer after switching
- I would also like her terror radius to return in demanifasted mode so people would be scared and run into me, because they don‘t know from where I come. As I started playing against her I did that quite often. I heard the terror radius, then I started to run and she just appeared out of nowhere in front of me.
Tapes
- I would want the tapes to be like before the rework, because in the current form I don‘t like that people switch off TVs only to counter condemned. If it was willingly it would be fine, but so I hate it.
- with short/no TV cooldown you have to pick up otherwise she can tp around all the time. So the tv shuts down for 50-70s
- also with the tapes you don‘t get the passive condemned from being close to the Tv. Instead the tape gives you condemned by holding it
- After putting it back in the tv you lose stacks of condemned
- I also would like if you only have one tv to put the tape like before
- Also an idea someone had was that you could decide as survivor to ######### your mates or be a good mate, where one tv was shown, which doesn‘t give your teammates 1 stack condemned and all others do, but you could decide. I don‘t think it would be good, because I would definitely give my mates condemned.
Also she shouldn’t have her lullaby shown in the visual heartbeat like you said.
I tried to find a good use for the tapes and some for condemned, because it was what was important for you in the other discussion, but I don‘t know what would be a good use to interact with the tapes except of condemned and switching off TVs. I personally also don‘t want that stupid immunity of condemned, because that made all people switch off the TVs, so I couldn‘t enjoy her new variant.
-
I would want the ability to hide in a locker in undetectable for her and then ambush out of it.
I think it would fit her well and add a cool new ability to her.
-
@pigslittlepet said:
Absolutely not. And yes there is. Distortion and calm spirit. They completely disable certain perks on killers. Would you like them changed as well? If you are okay with reworking both of those and every other aura read or scream counter in the game then I'm all on board with light born changes.
If you argue like that items should counter killer powers/ addons. Items are the powers of survivors.
-
@Cabalabob said:
This perk really needs to change.
No other perk in the game 100% shuts down an item for the entirety of the match. If a flashlight can't blind the killer it serves no purpose and with the addition of Hex: Two can play we now have other flashlight counter options for killer that are more interesting than just taking your ball and going home with lightborn.
A few of my own suggestion:
- Revert to the old version, makes it take longer to blind but you can still do it.
- Prevent the killer from being STUNNED by a flashlight, but does not prevent blindness.
- Remove the blind immunity but keep the reveal the survivors aura and makes them the obsession.
- Make it Hex: Lightborn, so we can remove it from play.
I only think it shouldn‘t make you immune, because like you said it makes items useless. If it makes them useless you shouldn‘t loose them.
-
@appleas said:
I don’t really have much issue with @radiantHero23 ’s two part suggestions in general.
Just some thoughts on my preference of how Sadako should be.
1) Teleport Condemned: Survivors within 16m of a powered TV receives 0.75 stack of Condemned when Sadako teleports. Survivors within 16m of Sadako after she completes her teleport animation receives 1 stack of Condemned.
This change prevents the mindless teleport spam strategy. If Survivors take a tape from the tv to “secure” their area, they won’t be subjected to Global Condemn and Sadako players have to be more careful about spam teleporting to all of the televisions as the potential Condemnation range gets smaller with each tv powered off.
2) Holding Tapes: Holding tapes does not prevent teleport Condemn. Survivors gain Condemn stacks passively over time while holding the tape. Survivors can only take tapes from powered tvs.
This prevents Survivors holding on to tapes indefinitely to prevent gaining stacks.
3) Depositing/tapes: Survivors can still deposit their tapes at any tv but will also be given a prompt for a specific tv. Depositing their tape at a non prompted tv will give the other 3 Survivors one stack of Condemned. Doing so at the prompted tv removes this penalty.
Survivors do not gain or lose Condemn stacks if they get hit while holding a tape. If a Survivor gets hooked while holding a tape, the tape is destroyed and the other 3 Survivors gain 1 stack of Condemned.
The concept behind this is to let Survivors decide if they want to deposit their tape ASAP and give their teammates more Condemn stacks or make the extra distance to nullify this penalty. Giving other Survivors Condemn stacks upon hooking encourages Sadako players to not slug.
That’s the main gist of how I would like the Condemn mechanic to be.
I like your ideas, I only hope that instant tps come back as this is my main problem with the current one and also the fact that survivors just disable all TVs, because of the condemned counterplay.
I find it kinda funny that you could kill your teammates on purpose and making them a hard time.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597385#Comment_3597385
Yep! Took 3 months.
Looks nice and the had looks a bit funny.
You did a really good job.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
Reading my post from back then reminds me of something i can actually do now:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EMTFBUJ8XTIW/img-20230706-185831.jpg
Did you built it yourself?
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596151#Comment_3596151
your one of the only player that talks about rework negatively. Your post widely misunderstand a lot of change thought behind the killer. The first one being is global condemn. the problem 16 meter of condemn was that corralling survivor into TV was very difficult. Small maps that had double floor like Gideon heavily favoured Sadako while larger outdoor maps were a dice roll for carolling survivors into TV's. Global condemn was to make Sadako less map dependent.
Another weird misconception is that you cannot play new sadako like old sadako. this is not true. you can play old sadako in new sadako. you get shorter tv cooldown's and can teleport more often on average compare to old base-kit.
Right now it's doesn't matter how good you are as survivor in that regard. Your getting condemned all the same.
this is not true at all. how good you at looping m1 killer greatly decides how quickly sadako m1 the tape out of your hand. Because Sadako has to m1 survivors with tapes, Predicting televisions is not sufficient enough to to be successful. you need to teleport to a tv and hit survivor from TV teleport. Just like you describing corralling survivors into TV's teleports, you do same thing with current survivor holding tapes but like you said, counter-play is very easy to 180. In old sadako, you did not need to hit survivors with each teleport. you only needed to teleport in 16 meter radius. that is why onepumpwillies strategy of 3 gen was so effective. You have to do gens and TV spawn near gens. If you played in 3 gen play-style, you had no control over avoiding condemned. you had to finish 3 gens to power gate. This was only way to remove rng component of the map. there was like... almost no skill component to the sadako. with iri-tape, you could mindless spam teleport's with almost no consequence or thought process behind any teleport. Your only limitation to teleporting was getting a hit here and there just to reset 4 TV's. this was very easy play-style that even new player could have great success.
Old Sadako had to monitor all tvs to see when and where someone picked up a tape and predict where the correct TV for the tape was.
Current Sadako still monitors TV's. This skill is more pronounced in her kit because tv are constantly being turned on and off. The problem with old kit was that... condemn was lackluster in build-up that nobody needed to pick up a tape. it just simply wasn't required. If anything, picking-up a tape was death trap because sadako could stay 19 meters away from survivor and follow survivor. Whenever they try insert a tape, you TP to TV to cancel the tape insertion. you would keep doing this until 30 second condemn timer automatic builds condemn. This was very cheesy. it was almost as cheesy as Pig following you with active head-trap. Some player refer to this as "tunneling condemn sadako strategy". you can see showcase of this with Otz who put a video about this for old Sadako for how he best found to use condemn to kill people. there wasn't much tape-gameplay going on with old Sadako.
In any case, I do not expect sadako to get buffed. I would expect her to be nerfed because she likely over-performs vs poor teams.
I also like the old one more. I never played the condemned playstile, because of this I hate the rework. I like the instant ability to tp around. Now every Tv is switched off, because of the tape rework. Before I could almost everytime tp where I wanted. Therefore I want the old version back without the focus ONLY on condemned. I‘m fine when the instant teleport stays and condemned gets buffed, but I want to decide how to play. Right now if you don‘t spam/force condemned, you lose and I don‘t like to have to play like that.
Buffs and changes I would like:
Tvs:
No/very short tv cooldown, so that survivors have to interact with tapes if they don‘t want that the Onryo can tp to them all the time.
The glitching in her ability should be more confusing and better. The pallet immunity should stay. When chasing someone in her ability chases count as chases, which made windows not block after jumping through a window. Also I would like her to have terror radius in her ability to make more jumpscares. I remember playing the first time against her, when I didn‘t knew from where she was coming and I only heard the radius out of nowhere, which made me run into her on lerry. At least the switching between her forms should be faster to get hits more consistent.
Tapes: I would like them to stay like they were before the rework. I only do not like the current tapes, because the condemned counterplay passively switches off the TVs. I‘m open for ideas.
Condemned ideas:
The radius from the TVs increases a bit where you get condemned close to TVs. In the decreased area it‘s only a half stack condemned. Then in the regular radius from before one stack like before (I think it was one stack) and in a radius of 6m around TVs survivors get two stacks. Like in the movie, where you only got cursed when you watched it for that you needed to be close.
Also if people are close to TVs they get a small amount of condemned if they are on.
I don‘t want global condemned, because then there won’t be instant tp speed to TVs and then there have to be cooldowns on the TVs, which I don‘t want. For me it is important to teleport around much and use the TVs in chase, which is quite difficult right now. Also after crawling out of a tv there should be a speedbost. I don‘t know if the current one has that and if there is one, then it‘s very small.
-
@beachfossels said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596705#Comment_3596705
That is also very true. It would make sense to camp in the basement even more so if 3 people were hooked. It probably would’ve been better as a perk but then we would have people who say it wastes a slot lol. Face camping doesn’t annoy me all the time but if that’s your main way to get a kill it is a tad annoying. Tho if the survivors are being toxic then camp away. That clip was so funny oh no 😭😭 how long into the game did that happen?
It happened some weeks before the hook grapps were removed, it was so funny. One after another ran into the basement, after I wanted to leave.
ATC could also be a status effect, which is given by multiple perks like that one from rebeca and Adam… I don‘t know those perks in English.
A lot of perks are made for countering camping and right now they are useless.
-
I personally think it should have been a perk, because it just takes away a big part of the game.
When you hook two people in the basement, what would be logical to do? Yes guarding the two people and why shouldn‘t I, I‘m the killer, that’s my job!
Also waiting on a hook to find people was also fine.
I think it was a necessary change, but I think as perk it could have been stronger better and more fun (less people would have it). Also less frustrating for killer and not that limiting. Sometimes I hook a person next to an almost completed gen and why can‘t I guard both without getting punished.
https://youtu.be/HI52R31leyg?si=jrMqsR6L20qeT_50
That‘s a clip I didn‘t really camp, but it wouldn‘t be possible with AFC. At least I couldn‘t watch them die. Sorry for quality.
-
@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596281#Comment_3596281
Why Nerf an already under preforming perk if you looked in the live stream the community went wild when they showed ds was getting a buff
It was a joke, I know it‘s bad
-
In the end it gets a nerf 😂
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Fun to go against. Fun to play as.
This killer is seriously brought fun back for me.
I am really glad BHVR is trying to do different type killers. 3 amazing killers in row. Larry, Xeno and now Chucky. I am hoping this trend continues like that.
Now just delete SM and we all are good.
Who is Larry?
-
@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596176#Comment_3596176
Well where are they? I'm seeing only 3-4 players in this thread who care, as usual, and there are an equal amount of people here against reverting her.
Didn‘t you notice that she is a lot less played since her rework? Before I played against her every 20 games once, now almost never.
-
@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596146#Comment_3596146
awful for playing as Sadako or playing againts Sadako?
Both, but a lot worse to play as her now
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595851#Comment_3595851
She's dull to play.
Her strategic skill cieleing has been reduced to spamming a button and her map mobility that made her omnipresent has gotten a cooldown that feels awful but is necessary due to the global condemned.
Going back to how she was is the only right way in my opinion.
Said that for months. Said that in the Ptb feedback.
Sadako chanig was originally the reason I joined the forum and spoke up.
I also mostly joined, because of her and some issues with the balancing of the game.
-
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595782#Comment_3595782
And as I said, it was pointless against survivors who knew to avoid condemned, run from teleports and largely ignore tapes because they simply could and just loop the M1 killer.
It's not bad that survivors need to interact with the killer power. It's kinda weird I have to argue that considering most other killers have that stipulation as well. Heck, I'm even asking for nerfs to her current power, just not gut her back to when she was kind of a joke compared to other killers.
That‘s the point where we disagree, you think condemned should be all. I think condemned should be like a passive and the TVs are the main part. I don‘t mind people playing like that, but please let me decide how to play.
Before her rework you were able to decide how to play. Now if you don‘t go for condemned you lose.
She also supported my and your way, the current one scrapped her whole fast tp identity, where she could always come out of nowhere.
For the chase part I made people run to TVs and then tped into them and it worked well. If I struggled chasing someone, I could immediately find another person and get a surprise hit. Now all close TVs are off near survivors!