domai36
domai36
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1267088#Comment_1267088
Very sadly, if Scott is right with what he says, then the Xenomorph has also been deconfirmed. ;_;
I don't know enough about that to say - the one thing I did hear though is that the upcoming killer would have been the furthest away on the release pipeline at the time, thus the most likely to be changed. That said, given that the killer was clearly tied to a license even back then, the only way Scott would be wrong is if that killer was pushed back or the license fell through.
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As some people have suggested, Pennywise and Candyman seem to be the most likely candidates based on the information we have.
Pennywise based on the "emotional" comment as Jason seems too unlikely, though that certainly would be emotional if it were true. Scott's "Not Candyman" statement is another step towards Pennywise as well. It is possible however that the use of the word emotional was used for marketing or an oversight.
Candyman based on the various little clues we have gotten, plus the pending theatrical release of Candyman. As it was pushed back, the release cycle may not have been able to change for it, thus Candyman still makes sense from that perspective.
If I had to pick a third and fourth I would say Jason (most emotional) and Pinhead (classic and relatively iconic, plus more chains!) - Xenomorph or Pyramid Head a distant 5th and 6th. But of course - anything is possible. I always thought a vampire would be cool, though you don't need a license for that.
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I think part of the problem is that balance is variable depending on where your skills lie on DBD.
For more casual players, survivor was underpowered before the changes and some maps are even more difficult to get an escape on now.
For more experienced players a better balance has been achieved, where the weaker killers handled by a skilled player without mori vs. a meta comp have a better shot at a 4k.
For SWFs with voice comms, killers are still probably pretty unthreatening unless there is a massive skill differential and no amount of changes short of utterly destroying the game for everyone else will have any impact.
In other words - it depends who you ask - on top of that lots of killer and surv mains have their typical biases.
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MM will get fixed pretty soon hopefully - at least changed with the introduction of an MMR system. It's pretty bad right now, I find as especially at night in NA.
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@DawnMad said:
Bloodlust means an impending doom for the survivors. Survivors are bound to be caught, the only question is how long they will last. As the developer mentioned, a bloodlust of 3 requires 45 seconds of chasing, which is awful for a killer. Even a 30 second chase is bad which is when you get bloodlust 2.
I dont see a reason to remove it, currently only time you see bloodlust be significant is when you loop a tile for very long, which then can be reset by a pallet if needed. The killer getting bloodlust when you are running in a straight line is totally fine by me, it doesnt even remove a second from that chase if you do the math.
Lastly, I really dont see a reason to remove a killer favouring mechanic while we dont have any problems with games favouring killers or anything. Maybe after the map changes in the next mid-chapter and in the future updates we will see just this, but not currently.
I don't think survivors are bound to be caught, otherwise the game wouldn't be too fun as a survivor. I do however agree that if a killer manages to keep up a chase that long, a hit should be assured.
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The problem DBD has is it's nearly impossible to balance around. It's assymetrical and the game completely warps with play with friends vs. solo. Because of this, if you buff killer too much - solo queue especially at weaker ranks become unwinnable and miserable for survivors. If you make solo queue better by buffing survivor, killer vs. swf at stronger ranks becomes a joke.
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I feel head on could probably stun for an extra second and still be balanced as it does not grant a speed boost and is difficult to land from a pure balance perspective - however the fact that head on disempowers the killer in a non-competitive game it's probably tuned just right.
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Sadly I don't know anyone that will play DBD with me. Had a lot of edgy and horror loving friends growing up, but that was a couple of decades ago and they have all moved into other things.
So I can't say Solo Q is bad because it is all I have ever known. It is fresh and unpredictable at least?
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@RaginRendon said:
Change my mind
Depends what you mean by power role. For the most part they are roughly equal, however I think the killer technically is in a few more ways. The killer has the power to make a single survivor's life a living hell in pretty much any situation or skill gap (within reason),or in some cases sacrifice killing the other survivors to ensure a kill on a specific survivor of their choosing. Depends.
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BHVR community interaction is a little snarkier than the industry standard I'd say - but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. There have been a couple of times I thought the BHVR employee's humour was a little misplaced, but generally speaking I'll take honesty over droning, PR non-statements any day.
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@Pulvoriser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/147233/community-rise-up
Take a chill pill Entitled survivor. The god loops were breaking the game, and generally many maps were too big, playing both surviver and Killer I can honestly say I hated getting maps where both sides would be at a stand off once the game got tense, it's a much needed fix.
Also, news flash! Most of the killer base already left! Wake up!!
Since they took away ruine you lost at least 60% killer base and are stuck waiting 10mins+ a game survival vs instant games as killer, because no one wants to play as a killer when you get gen rushed and god looped, this is a much needed fix to restore balance to the game.
I think the potential issue with this patch is that it fixed a problem that the game was largely balanced around - much like the ruin change. I would expect a decent exodus of suvivors, which is fair, I'm sure BHVR saw it coming just like with the ruin changes. The problem BHVR has with these important overhauls to broken aspects of the game like godloops, mapsize and ruin is that they don't offset the major changes with other, smaller changes to help offset the imbalance they create.
While you don't want to introduce them at the same time - so you can monitor their effects more closely - it may be a good idea to have another, smaller change in the wings in case the patch is a bit of a disaster. I guess we'll have to see how well they planned and/or calculated these changes.
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A lot of arguments that defend noed usually concede it's a frustrating and relatively overpowered perk before defending it which tells you the perk isn't in a great spot, even if it's not as game-breaking as some salty survivors will tell you it is.
I feel breaking bones should give a very small passive (or killer small debuff) for completing them, and then add a counter that shows you how many are left whenever you (or anyone else) completes one, thus you know how much effort is required to complete the rest. Of course global buffs/nerfs to killer/survivor would have to be closely monitored and carefully considered. With these changes I think noed would be in an unquestionably better place and bones a more interesting secondary objective.
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I got Zarina for this perk and the ONE time I got a legit use out of it, the player didn't expect to be picked up instantly and was afk, making it useless. In a SWF I could see it being useful as it counters slugging, but even then I'm not so sure how good it actually is.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
All of those killer changes are just buffs to their power with the exception of Billy. That's not really passive perks, just buffs.
As for survivors, devs have stated that they don't want that as it would encourage playing one survivor with the best passive over the rest which would reduce variety. I'd hate for my survivor choice to be wrong simply because their passive isn't meta.
I actually think it would be a great idea on survivors, especially for Behaviour to motivate players to purchase more of the cast. The key is to make the passive on survivors really small. So small that it would give the smallest edge that only a min/maxer would care about. Like entering/leaving lockers 15% faster type small and insignificant for a head on build, for instance. Buffs to more universally prized stats like exhaustion cooldown would be either extremely small or avoided altogether. The idea would be to give tiny, fringe bonuses to promote different types of builds. Even if the bonuses do very little, it is the psychological aspect of it that could work.
As it stands, so much of the cast feels utterly pointless to purchase because their teachables are not meta. To have a tiny ittle passive to inspire a build around would probably breathe a little more life into some of the more stale survivors.
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@aregularplayer said:
It's not exactly a team game, although I try my best to be a useful survivor and to help others, I learned not to expect the same from anybody on solo queue.
Yeah, I hate it when I'm the only person with kindred and the other players waste so much time running for hook rescues when they are clearly (to me with kindred) not in an ideal place to perform the rescue. That leads to no gens getting done which leads to a 4K - I do wish kindred was mandatory in solo sometimes, though I know that will never happen.
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@Shocktober said:
Immersion is the ideal strategy, since it wastes just as much time as looping the killer as well as not using any pallets. You can play active on the older maps but the new ones just give survivors nothing to work with.
You get spotted on Hawkins? You are going down, and probably fast. Sanctum is horrible, nothing to loop. Dead Dawg is pretty bad too, not much to work with and a killer like Freddy / Hag just push M2 and now you have nothing. All you do is hold W till you go down on those maps for the most part.
I agree, though hide TOO well and the killer will never even know you are there and just put extra pressure on the other players instead (assuming one of them is not doing a good job being stealthy). I do wish they had a way of giving more BP to successful immersive play where you keep a killer occupied without being in chase. Obviously that's a lot harder to implement, but would be really nice.
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I detected some potential proxy camping, just judging by the time between unhooking and the killer hitting someone. Not proof or anything like that obviously, as we have limited information. If you studied the video closer than I did then I'll trust you. As far as not being rescued at the end - that's just the way the game goes - I completely agree with you.
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200341#Comment_1200341
Blatant falsehood. All competitive games that have stood the test of time have been balanced around the highest skill level, not the lowest.
This is absolutely not true - and keep in mind you challenging someone decades of experience in game design. And I will raise your argument one step but providing you some solid examples, though I can assure you there are far, far more.
Riot breaks down a big Champion Balance FrameworkNo more being thrown in the deep end.Improved matchmaking logic is coming to Battle Royale's core modes.What Does That Mean? First of all, be aware that if you are listed as having two or three types (such as Johnny / Spike), your most prominent type is listed first.But why is this you might ask? Why are these companies - some of these titles serious esports - so interested in catering to new players? The answer is simple orf course - money. New players equals more sources of revenue. Ideally you want to have a game be attractive to the maximum number of players - player retention is huge, but attracting new players is key to this, and it's not all down to marketing. New players are the most fickle ones - us, the community is not. We come and go, sure - but most of us are here to stay for the next while at the very least. A new player doesn't have the investment yet. It's much easier to drop the title or get a refund if the first hour or two isn't great. The key is hooking a player - and not everyone can survive trial by fire. DBD isn't even an esport - there's absolutely no reason not to put more love into the NPE, so long as they aren't forgetting their core audience. More recent changes seem to agree with my assessment as well, as DBD has come leaps and bounds in many regards since I first played it back in 2017.
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I couldn't watch it with sound and I skipped some parts, but I think the OP played reasonably well. We are missing a lot of information, and outside of the very first hook, it does appear the killer was mostly camping the rest of the game - as leatherfaces are known to do from time to time. Because of this, the decision to focus on gens was probably the correct one, even if it may have been by accident (or maybe not, who am I judge).
Watching someone play without any proper aura reading perks is painful though. How do you get an accurate read on the state of the match if you're just running gens the whole time? You're putting a lot of burden (and trust) in your teammates to do the reconnaissance for you. I would personally poke my head around a couple more times than you do, just to get a feel for what's going on.
I think your decisions ended up working out for the best, though how much of that is down to luck is hard to say. Maybe you're just really good at subtlely reading the flow of a match from afar?
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For me as a survivor it's unusual behaviour from the killer, so long as it has a purpose and keeps the game interesting.
Because of this, I sometimes brainstorm a weird way to play a certain killer and do my best to adhere to it in the match. Some players get annoyed by it, other players love it. I don't do it too often but it's fun.
As an example, last night I played my main, Pig - and followed survivors around and pretended to work on generators with them while crouched, spamming pig noises and smacking nearby objects. The survivors caught on pretty fast and relaxed while I "worked" on gens with them. The surprise came when one of them missed a skill check and I tunneled them until they were hooked, only to go back onto a gen. They still stuck around and worked on the gen, but it created an amusing minigame of don't miss a skill check - and you'd be surprised how many skill checks were failed once the players figured out the game. Stuff like that is fun to me as a break from the typical game from time to time.
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While I agree your changes would fix many issues the community has with the game, it would also change the game so much that it would be a functionally different game in many regards. Personally, the hook is a great tool to create tension. When I first started playing, the idea of having to run to an area that the killer has a much higher chance of patrolling was exhilierating, and it still is from time to time. It also creates an interesting interplay between your primary objective (gens) and balancing party health. Focus too much on either area and you lose - that balance is a big part of what makes DBD interesting to me as a survivor.
So yeah, I feel there has to be a better solution than this, even though I agree it's clever.
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I have never played a single SWF game before. I can't get any friends into DBD :( So for me that's 0%, but I don't know. It would be interesting to see stats, as I feel it's actually quite a bit lower than 75%, though it's obviously hard to tell if you only have player behaviour and chat records to go off of.
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@Feiten said:
Like I've said before. Killers wouldn't camp if it didn't work so well. Youre a killer trying to kill 4 super humans in which some cases can yell to each other across the map ( swf comms) and you can't hear it.
So why bother brother! Camp away and let them come to you like moths to a fire.
My issue with this logic is that I have no control over my other teammates' actions as a solo player. This can be frustrating as I am completely powerless to do anything about it if they are unaware how to counter a camping strategy as it takes at least two of the four (if not three in some cases) to properly counter a camping strategy.
I think part of the problem is that it's not always immediately obvious a killer is camping if you don't know what perks to run. From a distance it can be misleading, especially if you aren't running kindred. Unless you go in at least once to inspect the actions of a killer (thus sacrificing precious gen time), it can sometimes just appear that the survivors are struggling to evade the killer, but not necessarily being camped. And that's important - as these two scenarios require opposite solutions. It's true with enough time and experience you can typically (though I see rank 1's do it often enough) discern the situation at hand - most purple ranks and worse don't have this more advanced skill, and thus - run like lambs to the slaughter or moths to a flame (BP and oh so sweet WGLF stacks).
Of course solving this problem seems difficult and I won't pretend I know the answers. I can think of lots of bad, easier to implement solutions, but none that feel great. It's one of those things that continues to exist because it's tough to fix without a massive undertaking - one that devs obviously feel could be spent elsewhere.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216924#Comment_1216924
The time it takes someone to die on their first hook is pretty long. I'm pretty sure the killer standing there gives you even more time on the hook. You can finish 3-4 gens easy. Even if the other 3 don't finish all the remaining gens, that is still very punishing for the killer. 1k for 3 gens is not a fair trade. The survivors have all the tools needed to win. They don't always know how to use them. This is the problem with the game. Instead of learning what to do people beg for nerfs or more perks. This makes the experienced survivors OP.
MPUK:
As for tunneling and camping. That doesn't drive people away nearly as much as imbalance. Look at the survivor que times and the killer que times? Tell me which one is in short supply? Killers bring moris to end a match quickly. Well what about survivors who bring tool boxes? People say tunneling/face camping is just to spread toxicity but what about all the survivors with flashlights who get in the killers face because they have BT+DS+Adren, then they teabag at every single pallet? As for a higher rank than 1. If a killer got to r1 by face camping that tells me this game is full of crappy survivors. You can thank the devs for constantly lowering the bar and letting these rookies prosper. Old Ruin kept those newbies out of red ranks. See what happens when you give out participation trophies.
Last, if you really played both sides this thread wouldn't trigger a response from you. You would already know face camping only works on inexperienced survivors.
Sorry for the late reply - the thing that maybe you didn't catch about what I'm saying (and this could be because I'm probably playing at a worse rank than you) is that it's quite frequent to watch the two others survivors ONLY try to rescue the survivor on hook vs. a camper. That is to say - none of them end up doing any gens because every time one goes in, another is hooked. I can not complete 5 gens in the time it takes these three players to all die on hook, even if I completely ignore them (which I typically do). This isn't every time by any means, but it's a multiple-times-per-day occurrence.
Whether or not I am a lower rank than you doesn't change the fact that at MY rank, this behaviour is commonplace, and I am usually hovering from purple to red, sometimes green. So my statement is correct, and I stand by it. Face-camping is a problem at my rank and there is nothing I can do within my games to fix this. It's just a fact of life.
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It's interesting because camp/tunnel play probably doesn't actually net you much more BP. Yes less survivors will escape and less gens will get done on average, but the scoring system will be stacked against you to counteract it.
Because that's the case - for the greater good I don't think camp/tunnel play or busted things like moris should be used generally. Especially at weaker ranks.
To give more detailed input - I think you have to approach every game with a fresh mindset and tailor your playstyle around what's happening in the game. If I am off to a strong enough start, I play like this - I will hook anyone twice, even if it's back to back. If I encounter them again while still holidng a big advantage, I'll almost always slug them and leave them completely to be picked up. That way I am still slowing the game down but I am letting them have another shot. If a player is getting hit that often, it's honestly probably not too hard to get them later.
Other than that, I only play as sweaty as I need to - to get a good score. I also never stall the endgame to try to secure hatch. I will always hook the second last survivor without hesitating and then make it a fair race for it. The game is best if everyone has fun - I want to do well and have a good time myself but as the killer more than an individual survivor - you have the power in a game , especially if you are ahead to be a sort of dungeon master. Bonus points if you can scare them :)
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@EvilJoshy said:
Uhhhhh how about the other 3 survivors finish the gens and get out? That killer doesn't get any bloodpoints or ranks up.
Face camping is not a problem. Only the weak killers do it and the newbie survivors fall for it. Have you seen a popular streamer face camp someone unless they pissed them off?
While in theory what you are saying is correct - the reality is I can't control the actions of the other two players. I run kindred religiously solely to counter face campers and I can't tell you how many times my fellow survivors just run like lambs to the slaughter instead of working on gens to counter the camper. Even after 2 or 3 hooks and clear behaviour to anyone who does not run kindred that the killer is camping, some players just won't give it up. More than I understand, to be honest.
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We use some similar skills. I used to rely on Premonition, then Spine Chill was my crutch - now Kindred is my go-to aura/information skill. Would strongly recommend. Kindred is like a soft decisive strike that always helps coordinate saves efficiently with the team (as long as most of them run it too).
I prefer Inner Strength over Self Care as well, but I often swap it for Decisive Strike or Borrowed Time. I personally love going Q&Q, Head On and Inner Srength together as well for a fun locker-themed build with Kindred, of course.
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Hope this isn't too long, worked overnight and got kind of bored at work. Just my thoughts on each killer as someone who only plays survivor (and Pig) at purple/red ranks.
Demo – Balanced with some interaction and interesting mechanics, solid.
Huntress – Presents a unique game style with plenty of interaction and counterplay
Nurse – Like huntress, completely warps the game but can feel cheap the odd time
Clown – Easy to face typically and quite fair, if a little boring and stale
Plague – Fun to interact with, isn’t super unique and I always get annoyed when teammates drink.
Billy – He’s pretty fun to face but is probably just a little too strong. That may be changing soon.
Oni – Like Billy but slightly more swingy, can be irritating or just sad.
Wraith – I really like nice wraiths, but evil ones are just miserable to play against but are the minority.
Deathslinger – Just a less fun Huntress, really.
Pig - Potential for frustrating RNG and camping cheese, but Pig can still be fun and tense.
Cannibal – Like Wraith, all down to the moral compass of the player.
Legion – Not very interactive and just kind of weird.
Doctor – Down to the add-ons, Doctor can be tense and unpredictable, but also extremely annoying.
Freddy – I don’t mind Freddy as much as some, but his mechanics are rather obnoxious.
Hag – The jump scare when you first realize it’s a Hag Is priceless, but she slows down gameplay far too much.
Trapper – A mirror into a player’s soul. Traps promote camp-heavy play. Also quite swingy.
Myers – On the surface Myers feels just like in the movies, but has so much potential for abuse.
Spirit – I hate the spirit. Overpowered and too unpredictable – also far too common currently.
Ghostface – Always my least favourite killer to go up against. His mechanic is busted, can make me feel powerless and I just find Ghostface players to be the most consistently trollish and bad-mannered lot.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Are you serious?
We were ALL new players at some point, I adapted, many others before you adapted.
EVERYONE adapted. Get over it, the game shouldn't cater to new players, you have to adapt.
I had to look up looping videos, when to drop the pallet, how to work the killer shack 3 years ago when I started.
We should be thankful you are not a developer - this is bad design 101 - especially from a financial perspective. New player experience is a big deal in modern game design, and Behaviour is aware of this and in more recent times they have started finally making changes that show they are not forgetting new players.
There's no reason any group of players should have a bad experience just because they didn't design it properly back in the day. The removal of Hex : Ruin was a massive change and is something I am glad every new player does not have to experience. I do agree with you that there's nothing wrong with killers having an above .500 rate as they should feel dangerous - especially at the start - but it's still not great, even if it's not as bad as it was a year ago.
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This is the eternal problem of DBD and really any asymmetrical competitive game. I used to debate all of the time on here and reddit about this and I know your pain.
I play the game very casually, but over the years I have slowly become a red rank survivor more or less now, but I still remember what it's like to not be that good at game and yes, killers have ALWAYS had a massive advantage at the newer ranks - a fact that is unfortunately lost on most players who have long since passed that level of play on forums like this. The issue is the opposite is true at Rank 1 - so you have a conundrum as the developer.
More recently I think they have slowly become better and better at making changes that keep this reality in mind. The changes to hex: ruin were a massive win for newer players, and a nerf like the one likely coming to great skill checks really only hurts Rank 1's. The nerfs to loops and the rework to Doc do suck for new players - I agree, but it just comes with the territory sadly. That said, definitely vent when you need to - Behaviour can't forget the newer players!
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I do think killers take a pretty substantial BP and thus rank hit if they camp most of the time, but I could be wrong.
In theory, the counter to camping is to just gen rush once you determine the killer is camping, though in practice it's seldom that simple and unless everyone is in on it, it's not a very beneficial tactic. At higher ranks, players seem more capable of countering a camper, but at lower ranks camping is honestly a pretty fail proof method of getting a 4K - especially if you have perks or a killer that can easily abuse it.