danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219177#Comment_3219177
It's been an unwritten code for a while now that tunneling or camping at 5 gens is shameful, since you're just guaranteeing yourself a win by getting a kill super early, which is unfun.
Personally I just play for 12 hooks at first, and if I start to lose because of it, I soft tunnel. No, I don't do this for the survivor's fun, I do it for my fun. I try to avoid tunneling most of the time because it's boring for me, not because it's boring for them. Of course I'll still do it towards the end if I need to comeback. I don't really shame those who do decide to tunnel at 5 gens though. It's going to bite you in the back though when you reach a higher mmr, and you have no idea how to loop.
It's nowhere near guaranteed. 3 or even 2 survivors is still very much a threat, because they still have the opportunity to go on really long chases, be efficient on gens, and escape. You can play for 12 hooks, as I do on accident, but it is THE way to lose as killer.
We need to get rid of this stigma that killers who camp and tunnel can't loop. They can, otherwise how would the survivor be on hook to even be camped or tunneled? There's a few exceptions like Leatherface, because he has to do so little compared to what M1 killers have to just to hook and camp someone. But in the vast majority of cases, the killers who camp and tunnel have come to use those strategies through the realization that their chase game, as good as it may be, just isn't enough.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219177#Comment_3219177
It's the same level of ridiculous as 3 gens popping after the first chase.
One just get villainized a lot more.
But the killer doesn't, or shouldn't, get mad at the survivors for doing 3 gens in the first chase. Survivors, however, will get mad at the killer for camping or tunneling at 5 gens, even though that's something they can actually punish. It's double standards and then some.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219090#Comment_3219090
She is absolutely not supposed to get hit on every triggered trap. That would be way too OP. Survivors also need a way how to get rid themselves of the trap. Otherwise you have trapper on multiple steroids with no counter play.
Not on every triggered trap, but on the ones she instantly reacts to while not being occupied with or slowed down by anything else. There's still plenty of counterplay to that. Is Nurse not supposed to hit you when she blinks on top of you?
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He's just an M1 killer at the end of the day, and a hit and run one at that, neither of which are very good. He has built-in counters too like destroying the remnant or locking lockers, things that are completely unnecessary for the survivors to have. Plus, like Hag, his teleport is inconsistent in how unresponsive it can be. You tp to a locker instantly as someone is running past, but instead of instantly being able to hit them, you have to go through the whole "coming out of the locker" animation, and only then does it let you attack, which at places like shack literally lets the survivor get to safety for free.
@Malkhrim said:
I see people here saying the Dredge is weak. That's not true at all. It's a very balanced killer, around Demogorgon's level. The thing is, its power is all about mindgames, so it's a bit tricky to play and map reliable, and a mistake might accidentally teleport you across the map, which can be a little frustrating. But get the timing right, know when to teleport and when to fake it, and the Dredge is a really fun and satisfying killer. Depending on the map, might feel like the second best m1 killer in the game (and only the second because the Cenobite can be really strong with his best add-ons and in the hands of a skilled player).
The only thing I think it's unnecessary and should be changed is the loud directional noise the Dredge emits at close range. It should only make that noise during Nightfall, not the whole time.
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I don't know what goes on with snares anymore. I can't even place them in front of me half the time.
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@Dem34888 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219177#Comment_3219177
Because people come with you in lobby not for opportunity to see how their characters do nothing, while you having "fun", I can understand camping / tunneling at end of trial if there's no 1 kill, but camping / tunneling / slugging at the start or middle of the trial is #########
It is called: "I don't want to learn to play and improve my skill, so I'll do the easiest thing I can, because I have opportunity and it's no forbidden"
Therefore, for such smart people in the game, a basekit was made for the survivors, let them learn to play, not whine
It's not fun. No killer has ever said, "Camping and tunneling is so fun!" But fun for me is winning. When I lose all the time, due to factors I can't control, it sucks. I get that as killer, in solo, and even in SWF. It's not about not wanting to improve your chase game. Most of us who have turned to camping and tunneling, we know how to chase. But you're kidding me if you think you can beat good survivors just off of doing well in chase. Gens don't care about how good you're chasing. Neither do hook states. You get frighteningly little for injuring, downing, and hooking survivors. They can shrug that off, because they're still alive, have a chance to rush gens still, and have a chance to escape still. Them being dead is the best and only definitive slowdown you're gonna get as killer, so you've gotta do what you've gotta do to get to that position ASAP.
Almost every attempt the devs have made to discourage camping and tunneling has failed. Oh, survivors get free BT off the hook? Better make sure they never get off. Oh, survivors can have 80 seconds of BT with this perk? Better to hit them right away. Oh, the survivors can pick themselves up off the ground for free? Better make sure I hook them straight away after I down them. They're trying to punish the undesirable playstyles, that they themselves have admitted are legitimate strats, while also making killers so weak that they're forced to play like that, and around and around we go. It's like a sick joke.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219163#Comment_3219163
How likely is what? Controlling the box consistently? Depends on the map. Easier to do on a smaller map. Not worth going out of your way for on a map like Ormond. Pinhead is still good either way.
Depends on the map, because if the survivor is too far when they grab it, you're not stopping. But on any map, a survivor can be behind a wall that you were just out of reach of with your possessed chain, and you can't stop it. His possessed chain just as anti-loop is the definition of inconsistent. Sometimes, perfect chains, making them manually break all 3. Other times, all 3 spawn behind and get instantly broken on an object. Not cool. Not a good killer.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I believe Choy made a video on how they would rework Hag, personally I liked it because it was more interactive. Would recommend checking it out.
Hag is fine as is. She just needs qol changes, like being able to hit the survivor out of instantly teleporting to them, like she's supposed to be able to.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218465#Comment_3218465
Stress is not necessarily related to how strong a killer is. The Twins were aways a strong killer since their release (even though they are a little lower now after so many nerfs), and they are by far the most stressful killer in the game. Still, even the devs confirmed they were "monsters" at top level.
And yes, even against skilled players, she still has a bigger chance of winning than the huge majority of killers. Even Oni may have a bad time and end up not hooking anyone for the most game at top level. Do you think Oni is a B/C tier?
Yes, I think Oni's a terrible killer. His reputation, like Hag's, is trumped up and based off of how good of a noob stomper he is. He has to hit survivors to get his power, so if they're good and they know that, they'll just play ultra safe against the M1 killer so he doesn't get his ability til 2 gens are left. He's like D tier, right there with Deathslinger and Sadako. It's where I almost want to put Hag even though I know, in theory, she should be A or B tier. She just isn't, because her power isn't working as intended, as I've explained multiple times. And the devs are comfortable with this because they don't have to fix it, since it's not a popular enough killer, and because they've been convinced that quick-whatevering is OP, hence Deathslinger having no quickscope, having Twins and Wesker having these big slow start-ups to their ability. It's all about creating this facade for survivors to feel good about themselves because they're like, "Woah, bro! I almost got hit there! This is so crazy!" The killer is struggling to hit them because of how clunky their power is, meanwhile the survivor thinks they're legitimately outplaying them.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
I don’t understand why most people can’t see the correlation between gen rushing and face camping?
SWF’s load up with perks to bust out gens, bring map offerings and coordinate everything. It’s 4 v. 1. You’re not winning (if you win) because you’re skilled, you’re winning because you’re in constant communication w each other.
I am a Trapper main (and honestly I do quite well, but I constantly face tough SWF teams), yesterday I had a team bring me to Ormond. Okay I’ll make the best of it…game starts, I set down a trap..walk a short distance, put down another trap..a gen pops ALREADY. Start first chase, gen pops, down survivor, gen pops…hook survivor, gen pops…I don’t know how it’s possible..but that’s 4 gens in mere minutes. There’s 1 gen left…the game just started, why am I not going to camp the person I just hooked? 1 gen left. Game is already over. I ended up w a 3k, but it’s irrelevant. Still lost a pip. Had zero fun.
At 5 gens, camping and tunneling is completely ridiculous. Yes. But being gen rushed and camping/tunneling go hand in hand. Expecting to gen rush and have the killer give everyone their three hooks each, is highly unrealistic.
Why is camping and tunneling ridiculous at 5 gens specifically? Can somebody explain that to me?
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I'm for removing add-on rarity, but not add-ons.
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Garbage map. Crazy gen spread, breakable walls, loops you can't even Bloodlust through, god pallets, and easily one of the most abusable maps for Boil Over.
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If you don't play a killer much, it's gonna have you at low MMR with them by default. This should be common knowledge, but it isn't. That's why survivor mains can jump on Freddy for 2 games, get 2 4ks, and claim that the killer is "fine."
@lauraa said:
The skill floor for killer is indeed lower, and survivor is an immediate meat grinder.
However, your killer games will start to get tougher. Killer variety is pretty poor at the high levels for a reason
That's what I'm saying. People say X killer is fine, but then they never see them at the top, and when they do, that killer loses by a landslide.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Pinhead is sneaky good. If you can find the box consistently, you can 12 hook at 4 or 5 gens because survivors straight up can't do anything. It's actually crazy. Especially on a map like Lerys where the box has 2 spawn points. You can find it at the start, interrupt the next box taker, rinse repeat.
But how likely is that?
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@Wampirita said:
The biggest Pinhead's strength is solo Q survivors with mentality "someone else will do it". Mostly you don't even have to find more than 1 cube to shatter their hopes.
And that's really it sadly. I've been a pinhead enjoyer for ages, but once i started getting mostly coordinated swfs, it's not as easy as it used to be. I wish they made games a bit easier for solo Q players, because they suffer on another lvl only from the lack of info
Yep. All it takes is survivors not being solo, and Pinhead can't really do anything. Even with solos, what's stopping them from getting the box? Just assume that your teammates aren't going for it, so you go for it.
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Nope. All they have to do is be behind a wall your possessed chain can't reach, and they solve it. All your momentum suddenly gone.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think the new map team has good notes on what made previous maps problematic. It's strange because there are examples of good map balance already in the game (Coal Tower, Wrecker's, Dead Dawg, etc). They just don't iterate on the good practices for whatever reason.
I don't think any of those maps are good balance examples.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218821#Comment_3218821
Like you said that doesn't work every time, especially against good players who can look behind them and/or know about it. So in the end its still majorly in the survivors hands and favor.
3 gens aren't a reliable balance point, as I said it's the survivors fault for letting it happen.
Preach.
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Not that I can think of.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219094#Comment_3219094
and funnily defending dcing like that is somehow not against rules, what a magic.
There's no rule against justifying DCs, and there ought not be, but that doesn't make it right.
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@Regulus47 said:
Have you been living under a rock? Killers have been hard tunneling off hook and camping non stop ever since 6.1.0. came out. There's a reason the BP bonus is always on surv lol.
I guess those games where I lost because I didn't camp or tunnel just didn't happen.
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Oh there's a massive entitlement problem. There's no pushback against it either, aside from you, I, and a few others. People say, "Well, the survivor deserves to DC because the killer did X or their teammates did X." So we're encouraging DCing now? And asking for the DC penalty to be taken away? This is the world we live in.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
She's miserable to verse in her current state, no thanks.
So because you personally don't like her, she deserves to rot? Believe me, I've felt that way about Nurse. But Nurse is unfun because of how strong she is. Hag is unfun, to you, but she's weak. Do you not see the problem? She's supposed to be able to instantly tp to an activated trap, and hit the survivor, but she can't. Could you imagine if another killer's power, like Twins or Nemesis, straight-up didn't work, how much outrage there would be? Hopefully some at least, because I know people could care less about those killers as well.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218407#Comment_3218407
its her camping. her camping not fun to play against. she is like best proxy camper in the game because her traps allow her to be in two places at once which is at the hook and in the chase. Very similar to twins victor hook gameplay. She is not really good at prevent unhooks but she is really good at hook trading. she is not unplayable but i dislike playing against her and I find her too simple to play. her gameplay way too 1 dimensional.
her mechanical skill is among lowest in the game. you place traps, survivor run into them, you press tp and hit them. in term of using ability, not much complexity. her complexity comes from how you place traps.
They'll get hit by a trap they weren't expecting, then hold forward to the other side of the map where you obviously haven't had time to trap. Then heal up, come back, and start screwing up your traps again.
I think your misunderstanding how hag's gameplay loop works. Hag places traps in circular web-like fashion because entire idea behind her trapping system is that you hit someone, they run forward and as they run outwards, you place traps ahead of the survivor such that when they run forward, they hit a trap as you recover from basic attack swing. it gives you a pseudo 2 hit combo. Its just that better player understand her tactic so there are tactics to counter her gameplay and because of how 1 dimensional she is, she is too predictable of a killer such that when you know how to counter her strategy, she is not very effective. she just destroys weak teams that have lack of coordination. Another soloq stomper if your teammate are bad.
It's not that simple. She can't be in 2 places at once. When she's chasing someone, and a trap goes off, she has to tp to that trap to hit the person, thus dropping the chase she was in. That's detaching, which any killer can do. And y'all say she's so good at camping, but she doesn't have time to just do that. She also has to set up traps, and when the survivors go to hoo save, you're in another detach scenario, because if you leave where you're setting up traps, and tp back to hook, who's to say a survivor doesn't destroy all your traps the second you leave? You had to pressure the unhook, but you can't afford to instantly lose your traps you just set down, so what do you do?
STBFL can help, I know, but even assuming you don't have an aggressive obsession, it's still hard for Hag to down. She either has to chase as a 110%, or she has to hope that a survivor gets successfully hit by a trap 2 times consecutively. And even when you down them, there goes your web of traps against survivors who know what they're doing. This isn't even going into flashlights or maps, which can totally beat out your power. Survivor movement exploits can even beat out your power. They spin, and are already running even when you instantly tp, making your power pointless. There's no counter to that either, nothing you can physically do, except placing a trap in anticipation of them tripping another trap, which they're just as likely to see you plant.
I know how to play her, and she's not as simple as people say. In theory, sure. In reality, not at all. She was not designed to have an even playing field against people who know how to play against her, which is the same for most killers.
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@Lastchild said:
From what I read, you just say you can't play Hag, that you don't like him.
Hag is no problem at all.
It's really you who's having trouble with it.
Because once you set your traps it's child's play to teleport and beat up the survivors.
You can even shoot away just by camping a single survivor on the hook.
In fact you have to keep in mind that Hag is a spider.
If you don't think like a spider, you lose.
If you don't learn to hide when you set your traps and to set your traps in unexpected places, you lose.
Check out Main Hag's YouTube videos:
Mitchi and Negoose.
I tried all that. I like Hag. When you're going against survivors who don't bother to trip traps, she's fine. But the way you hear it from other people, she has "no counterplay" except crouching through her traps, which we know is the wrong way to play against her. It's child's play for the survivors if they just have 1-2 people pushing traps and 1-2 pushing gens. Hag cannot chase, because she's 110%. You technically can, but you're gonna lose the whole game. You can set up a zone of traps, but the survivors trip a few, and all that planning is down the drain.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218409#Comment_3218409
You mean... the facecamping zombies?
No, the ones that actually hit survivors.
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@Malkhrim said:
The Hag is far from unplayable. She is in her weakest state since her initial buff back in 2018 (Circle of Healing and the meta change made playing her harder) and yeah, playing her against skilled survivors is currently really stressful, but she is still an A tier killer.
How does that make sense? She's A tier, but it's a stress fest when survivors know how to play against. Y'all act like tier lists are made, not gaging how good a killer does at top level, but how much better of a noob stomper they are. A tier my behind.
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@Jangles said:
Lmao people like this are the reason that devs wont communicate with us more. Stop being ridiculous. That's elementary level thinking and not conducive at all to running a company. Stop it. Go sit in a corner and think about what you just said.
The irony in this.
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You know, the zombies on the original ptb were perfect. Don't know why we can't just go back to them.
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@gilgamer said:
Truth be told hag is so unfun to go against id rather her get a full rework then any kind of buffs or fixes that would make her more common.
I've never understood why most people hate going against Hag. You trip traps. They don't even injure you guaranteed like Trapper's.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218144#Comment_3218144
Can he complain about game balance? Absolutely. There was a total mismatch of power here.
Does that mean he should be ranting and ranting at people who didn't incite it? Do you do that? Are they supposed to sit there and politely nod as he fills 5 different chat boxes with how terrible and hopeless and against him the game is because he.. lost?
Because.. yeah, dude. Just stop b*****. At some point you need to be told that. They're not secretly snickering and villainously tenting their fingers because they decided to un-gently tell you to chill the hell out.
I didn't wait 'till the game was over to fill 10 chat boxes telling the double range awakened starstruck Nurse who just tunneled and camped me to death at 5 gens against my Solo team how unfair and terrible and hopeless everything is and I need to play in a comp 4 man to win a game ever again. I just left.
There weren't that many messages, not that we can prove anyway. If there were, not much has changed. They, like you, can ignore his complaints and move on. Isn't that the commonly given solution? I'm just saying it's bad advice to tell someone they're not allowed to be mad. We learned this in Spider-Man 3. And please, how often does that scenario happen to survivor? You don't have to let your complaints be known to the other players, but you're also not obligated to stay silent.
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It's simple. Make the game slow enough to where killers with no map mobility don't lose easily.
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Yep. Sometimes I can go for random chases, no strategy, because the survivors are chill or because I have a full meta build. Other times, I have nothing going for me in a match, from start to finish. Injuring, downing, and hooking people doesn't do anything, especially with the dreaded CoH in play. It's kills that make a difference, which is why you see camping and tunneling a lot. And this is from killers who know very well how to chase, because you are kidding yourself if you think chase skill alone can beat good survivors.
I actually did say to a friend the other night, "I feel like I have to lame it out. Playing like this is so boring." I was playing with an out-of-character CoB/Overcharge/Eruption. There was very little commiting to chases, just injuring and kicking gens. You get so caught up in the strategy, that you're forced to use, that you don't even feel like a killer anymore. You feel like a micromanager. And even then, certain teams will just blow you away no matter how many things you're juggling. Too much efficiency and second chances on their part.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217080#Comment_3217080
Midwich, shelter woods and RPD are all killer-sided. RPD pallets and Midwich pallets are all mostly unsafe. The killer can mindgame at least 75-80% of the pallets. Shelter wood is mainly killer sided because there is just not enough pallet resources on that map. its one of the maps where killer can just brute force every pallet and the survivor is almost guaranteed to run out of pallets. Its like only map in dbd where there is not enough pallets. The other map that has this same problem is Wretched shop. I kinda hope that they added a lot more filler pallets to shelter wood and Wretched shop. both of those maps are really not enjoyable for survivor because it just sucks low amount of pallets to loop as survivor.
On surivvor sided maps, the killer is hard to play. These maps on the other hand are like christmas in comparison to playing farm maps, garden of joy, badham, eyrie crows, red forest maps and so on. Unfortunately for killer, survivor tends burn these map offering a lot, so you better just get used to playing on these maps and forget about any of those maps.
I don't see it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217555#Comment_3217555
If survivors throw the pallets as candy, the game ends at 2-4 gens on every map (except maybe the game map). It will probably end at 5 gens when getting shelter woods (as a lot of the small number of pallets present there are totally useless once dropped). You can't go camping or pre-dropping pallets EVER. That thing was complained about by killers and got fixed at 6.1 patch (longer gen times and shorter pallet breaking and all the other basekit changes).
For deadzones - if killer camps 3gen (say RPD) - running early means not doing 3gen and letting it regress = insta loose. Once again - the map no longer has ANY loopable place. Not a single LT. Like the "strongest" loopable obstacle is interogation room (ride side bottom floor far end next to main) which killer needs to misplay for it to not be hit straight away. And it's just 1 window so most you can buy in that spot is 20 seconds - and that is the most optimistic outcome where killers falls for everything. Everything else is just pallet = potential dead zone = hit next time this comes up.
Midwitch - as I already said. You do get a strong pallet. But once it's broken, you can't run to next room. Because next room contains just tables and chairs with 0 pallets. That is hit for killer. And if you go for this spot after someone else already used the pallet - then you get hit while all you did is just holding W - which is now (deserved) survivor L. So no. This map does not offer you enough resources. It gives you enough resources for first 2-3 chases. But as pallets don't replenish, map is tiny and you can't even chain resources on this map - it's no longer of survivor looping right, but how much killer misplays. So after a few first chases you just use your one window you can possibly get to and get your down with 0 things to do. This is way before you can finish your generators.
Legion - once again. The map is not so dense with resources that you can get to next pallet after killer insta-deletes the one you just threw down. Any legion with 1 functional brain cell will run in front of you before canceling his ability (so you need to run over him to get to next pallet or return to broken pallet - it definitelly does not give you any time to run around new pallet - also no mindgames from such a legion. He wants to get stunned for spirit-endurance. And no you can't get to any window as there is none on this specific map). Maybe you haven't tried it. Legion with this specific build on this specific map does not have real counterplay. If you of course don't count baby killer that swings on the air that can get 360'ed 3x in a row and allows you to get to those 2 LT's (which are also not an automatic survivor win) on the map every time to loose him substantial time.
What I see are killers that camped and tunneled too much that can't really loop. But are put against survivors that needed to learn it. For this reason a lot of killers just cry how maps are inbalanced and how every resource is so much OP against killers and killer can't do anything against any loop because mindgame never works. Well. Maybe if you didn't camp and tunnel, but instead learned to chase the maps would automagically become even (and by even I mean you still have shelter woods against the game and rotten fields against garden of joy and midwitch against eerie of crows etc).
So I can just run those killers and play those maps and have no difficulty? Okay.
I've tried every trick in the book. Mindlessly Bloodlusting "weak" pallets, because that's supposed to work. Mindgames. Cutting loops efficiently. Bringing Enduring/Brutal Strength/Bamboozle to shut down these dumb loops as soon as possible. There's still teams I had no chance of beating. You can't go in with no strategy, and the survivors SHOULD actively try to figure out and counter your strategy, no matter how ineffective it is anyway. You take into account no whiffs, no strong loops together, no getting cheated out of Bloodlust, Bloodlust not being a necessity, survivors being inefficient, killers having the luxury of breaking all the pallets.
I get that solo sucks, if that's where all of this is coming from. I'm tired of my survivor caliber being questioned, and it's about time I started questioning y'all's. I get double digit prestiges all the time, and I somehow beat them sometimes. What are y'all getting? 100 hour players?
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217581#Comment_3217581
"Stop crying" said the 4-man adrenaline squad
I mean. Yeah?
The way it's framed and how he says they told him he did good, it looks like he was ranting for
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4IPZP1WYE48U/image.png
a hot minute at people who were doing the opposite of BMing him. Yeah it's kinda weird how they decided to bring such a strong setup, but if they're not starting the postgame chat party, then yeah-- calm down and just play the game.
They said, "Just stop b******", the most unsympathetic way they could have said it, so I don't have any reason to believe that they're sincere in that. You can see right through it.
Even if their intention wasn't to be toxic or anything, they're still running the strongest stuff, which means the killer couldn't do anything because Pinhead can't handle that level. He has every right to complain, because we know as of right now SWF breaks the game.
Y'all are trying to invalidate legitimate complaints, once again.
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@IridiumGlass said:
If Hag were any stronger, she'd easily be No 2, right behind nurse.
The skill gap between versing Good survivors and Great Survivors is massive, you're not use to playing against survivors that know how to play against you. Remember Hag still has a semi-decent chase potential with Traps, the most important thing as hag is to keep resetting traps. if you've placed down 10 but your first 2-3 never got sprung, its time to move it. Even if your trap placement is in optimal it's better to have your traps down then none at all.
It sounds like your main problem is that your hag is predictable, and your trap placement is stale/too easy for survivors to find and disarm. just because your trap is triggered doesn't mean you have teleport. Faking setting up a trap or not teleporting to a triggered trap will waste survivor time and give you more time to set up. Survivors know that Hag time more valuable then normal killer time so don't waste your time. Every second wasted spent trying to trigger a non-existent trap, or spinning around a triggered trap is enough time for you to set up 2-3 new traps.
For your pick up problem Agitation Star struck should fix the problem, or a better idea set up around the hook before you pick up. That way even if survivors too start to dismantle your web you've already defended your hook. If your trap is being flashlight burned is actually better then having the survivors trip them in most circumstances, teleporting to a triggered trap is worse than a trap straight up being destroyed.
in the advanced survivors situation, you're best bet in High MMR is dragon's grip, Corrupt, Starstruck Agitation. TbH Starstruck agitation is kinda hacky on Hag, set up 2 -3 traps before hooking and then set up another 2-3 while Starstruck denies Hook rushing. Although this play style will make everyone hate you. Or if you truly wish for a brain dead build, Bloody blueprint, agitation, MYC, monstrous shrine, iron grasp and set up immediately around basement, after getting your first down in your web, it's pretty much GG for Altruistic survivors. For more optimal survivors you still lose if the gen spread is not near your web.
I disagree, but even if she was top 2, she takes enough mechanical skill to justify her being that strong. My Hag is not predictable, but even if it was, how does that justify survivors being able to movement exploit and not get hit by my traps when I instantly tp? It's literally a character not performing the way they're intended. I am placing traps around corners to jump scare, but also around loops which you're supposed to be able to do. A survivor making it their sole purpose to disrupt your traps is all you need to lose the whole thing.
I like how the "solution" to all this is having instadowns through a perk, which you can't even get if you don't get a down. Smart survivors will not give you the down. They'll get hit by a trap they weren't expecting, then hold forward to the other side of the map where you obviously haven't had time to trap. Then heal up, come back, and start screwing up your traps again. You cannot follow them and commit to the chase with Hag, because Hag doesn't chase. The amount of time you'd spend just to down that person, since you're a 110%, combined with people setting off all your traps the moment you commit to anything, leaves you with less momentum overall. Instadowns don't change this, because they see you have it, and they don't push in until it's gone, but that doesn't mean they don't have enough time to do gens and saves. And using Dragon's Grip? Forget it; it won't work.
Against survivors who know the counterplay to Hag, Hag doesn't stand a chance. They are in complete control. The only thing that get them is a lucky hidden trap, which they can react to instantly and be running already, and after that they won't fall for it again. Hag is a character from old DBD, way outdated, way in need of a buff. We could make her traps actually work, we could make her 115%, or we could give her more traps, but she needs to be better. We can't just put on Rusty Shackles, which isn't even playing proper Hag at that point, and call it a day.
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"Stop crying" said that 4-man Adrenaline squad. Some people just have no self-awareness.
You're playing a killer who's been nerfed unnecessarily, and whose alleged strength against bad solos puts a potential buff completely out of the question. I would just keep your expectations low so you're not as disappointed. There could have maybe been a way for you to beat that team, if you straight tunneled the whole way through, since there's no DS, but you'd have to chew through Off The Record every time and that's tough without the Original Pain. I would just think, "Well, that was unfair" and move on.
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@TheArbiter said:
You got beat, move on man, some matches are gonna be harder than others
It's indicative of a larger problem, that being the massive difference in strength between the killer and the survivors.
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@Desola said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212713#Comment_3212713
I've been playing against Surv sweat squads plenty recently. Only times i went with these "strats" was to get rid not of a good player or to get pressure but just to shut up some annoying flashlight clicking kid (usually camping pallets themselves and tagging after dropping it like they just solved world hunger.)
If a killer plays somewhat smart tunneling and camping are absolutely not necessary. Camping and hard tunneling some random surv right off the bat is just a crystal clear sign that you're stuck with a baby killer
I tried to be optimistic recently, played a few games with no gen defence, played a few with Call Of Brine/Overcharge/Eruption, and won quite a few of them. But then I faced team after team where it's like, "What could I have done?" It wasn't their skill in chase that got me. It's the gens, every time. Double digit prestiges, running full meta, and sometimes even Adrenaline and Hope together, because they were just that confident, and they were right, that it would be easy to get to endgame. When I go for chases, no other strategy, I lose. You have to target 1 or 2 survivors, or else. You can't play like a saint, you can't not bring some meta, and you can't depend on good chases to carry you. That's why tunneling and 2-hooking come in. They make your chases worthwhile, because downing and hooking a survivor do frighteningly little for you in this game. It's when they die that the game turns more in your favor, but if your luck is anything like mine, you'll be getting a kill or 2 only after the 4th gen is done. I am not a baby killer, and neither are people that have come to similar realizations, thank you very much.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217080#Comment_3217080
By your perspective. The game is clearly killer sided. You go in, break some pallets, create dead zone and there is nothing survivor can do. He needs to go there because there are still gens there, but no more resources. Clear killer win. Gg go next.
I used same weird reasoning.
But ok. Let's get back to topic and let me explain to you why you are wrong.
Midwitch is extremely small. Has built-in long dead zones that always separate loopable section - so once you exhaust one section, you need to take hit or use exhaustion to get to next part. Because killer needs to missplay bad for you to get to next tile otherwise. This does not even count survivor misplay - that's why midwitch is killer sided.
Shelter woods can have as little as 6!!!! Pallets. Best case scenerio you get some long walls gyms which are solid structures, but not safe structures. Worst case you get that hash (#) shaped structure that has 1 unsafe pallet that killer does not even need to break + no window making it about as good loop as Z-wall. The only structure you know will be usable in whole large map is killer shack with basement (which can be completely shut by bamboozel). You can't seriously call this map survivor sided.
Legion - you predrop the pallet and he immediatelly destrys it with pin (and power cancel is too short to get to next pallet). You stun him and charge his spirit fury/enduring. You don't drop it and get a hit because there are 4 loopable windows on whole map (and they are 2x LT so nothing crazy killer can't outplay). So loose or loose or loose. What is the counterplay again?
Rpd - sure 2 gens in main, 1 in new main-gate's opening, 1 in top right room - 4 gen that is soooo hard to patrol - 3 of them on guaranteed spot (even if 1 is little bit away) 4th one can move like 5m away (but still on same upper floor). Sometimes there are extra gens close by - like in library or old right-side room next to main or room directly above that one. Yet again - killer does not need to patrol all the gens and deplete whole map. And after each droped pallet a little deadzone is built. If you build a little deadzone around this 4+gen, there is nothing survivors can use. I see it all the time. When I play survivor on the map it's probably lost game. When I play killer on it, I probably win. The result is clearly not survivor sided map. Especially with some regression perk or two.
You're describing each map with the worst scenarios possible. "Just break pallets", huh? "Just create a dead", easy as that? As I said, the survivors don't have to throw the pallets down like they're candy, and if they do, and the killer bothers to break them all, the survivors should have all the gens done. If not, it's their misplay, because that's a huge amount of time wasted even with the killer instantly breaking them. What do you do when there's a deadzone? You just run early, since there's no pallets there, or you hide. Stop expecting a bone when you threw half the map's pallets down and still can't do 5 gens.
If Shelter Woods has 6 pallets, let's change that, but it isn't the typical variation that comes up, not by far. Midwich has no shortage of good pallets. Do the halls have pallets? No, but then you run forward instead. It's even got 2 floors, like RPD, which is a pain for the killer to patrol. How can you possibly stop the survivors when they're working on gens on 2 levels. Even Dead Dawg has that. RPD as I said hasn't changed that much. There's more holes in the walls so survivors don't get lost as easily, and there's more entry ways to certain areas. Nothing about that is killer sided. If the map being a bit smaller than it was makes it killer sided, I don't know what to tell you.
Legion beating you out no matter what you do is absolutely false. When he's chasing you normally and you have to drop the pallet so he slides and breaks it, he still has to go into fatigue, just to be able to hit you. and you get distance so use that. He's an M1 killer with a pink add-on that gives fast pallet breaks, if survivors throw them down like candy. Not too difficult to beat.
Y'all just disadvantage yourselves, don't manage your resources correctly, self-fulfilling prophecy and give up. Survivors have so much power, especially on these maps. You're scared of a few regression perks? Half of them don't even do anything without injuring, downing, or hooking survivors, and the "strong" ones are few and far between. Maybe Call Of Brine/Overcharge/Eruption is challenging, but two of those perks are countered by gen tapping, leaving only Eruption as problematic. But everything else the killer uses, y'all pretty much have that match in the bag, if you're playing efficient.
I just wish everyone would stop pretending that the game isn't hard for killer.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216541#Comment_3216541
The game is (usually) truly survivor sided. But you also have a bias. All maps are survivor sided? Well it seems you have never been on midwitch or on shelter woods to name 2 biggest offenders.
Also there are more killers+build that don't have problem with the map. Mori sadako being one case, iri button + stun-power-recharge legion being other, nemesis, wraith with destroy-pallet-build/addons, etc. And the map does not provide anything but pallets (and 2 LT loops).
Also to note. Old RPD was in the end survivor sided (still there were killers that thrived on this map way more) - new RPD is killer sided. There are exactly 0 good loops on the map and if killer has anything that helps him against pallets, then survivors will have a bad game - 3gen at main being one of many reasons.
No, I don't think so. Midwich, Shelter Woods, and RPD aren't killer sided.
Midwich's "killer-sidedness" comes from the fact that the RNG is limited. The breakable walls and a few other things are randomized, but the map is mostly uniform in its generation. That doesn't mean that there aren't strong pallets there. Y'all call a lot of the pallets weak, but you can barely get someone there with Bloodlust. Just be patient, like the killer has to be, and only drop the pallet once the killer commits to going through it.
Shelter Woods has always been overhated. It's still a big map, it just doesn't have a broken main building or broken loops all next to each other like literally everywhere else has. The rock loops are there when you've used up the jungle gyms, if ever, and you can play them just as I've said above, since they aren't really weak pallets if you play them right. Most killers can't even use their ability at rock loops.
Maybe it's Sadako's power that should be changed then. Make her condemned not go through walls or at least not from a different floor. Again, y'all find that one niche build of hers and call her super strong. She needs a pink add-on for it to work. And Legion, are we really complaining about them? So what if they can use their power to break dropped pallets? They still go through fatigue to get out of it. Stop trying to stun Legion out of their power and just take the hit, because they can't down you with their power, and you get a sprint burst. Other killers can get through pallets quick, if you drop the pallets. You can bait that you're gonna drop it to get another go-around. They get through pallets really quick because you let them. Even if they do break all the pallets, why aren't all the gens done by that point?
New RPD is just as big and survivor-sided as it was before. You lost 1 dumb god window. Everything else is pretty safe pallets, god pallets, strong windows, and awkward gen placement (for the killer). You get the middle gens and the killer can't win, because the map is split.
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There's not much to say about the map. There's way too many god pallets. If you don't think this map is survivor sided, you're probably survivor biased. Then again, I think all maps are survivor sided, since none of them have the survivors starved for resources exactly. But this one takes the cake. All it is is breaking pallets, probably getting stunned too since if you keep respecting them, the survivors get another go around. You would think that Wesker being able to jump over god pallets would make this map more bearable for him, but no, because he's got the slowdown when doing that which negates the distance he gained. Maybe all the pallets is great for Spirit Fury/Enduring but that combination has been done to death, everyone knows its counters, and it struggles with consistency. The only redeeming feature of this map is that stealth killers, like Scratched Mirror Myers or Ghost Face, do good against disorganized solos. But Pig, despite it being her own map, is terrible on the game. She can't even get around the loops with her dash attack to hit survivors. Thing is, this map has pretty much been used as inspiration for future maps, as we've seen RPD, Eyrie of Crows, and Garden of Joy get multiple god pallets. It's not fun to have maps designed like this because there's no risk to the survivor after the pallet has been thrown, because the killer just has to break it and the survivor gets 20 seconds of free distance holding forward.
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Bad plastic surgery.
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Prestigate
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@TAG said:
You know what, I actually think this is a fine change. At that point in the game, Killer has basically already won. I don't see the point in adding insult to injury for the last Survivor. Luckily, clearing that up it is as simple as changing "When the Exit Gates are powered" to "When the last Generator is completed."
But then you're just adding insult to injury to the killer instead. They beat the survivors, closed the free escape hatch, now what? You want to give the survivors more chances to escape?
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@SpaghettiVase said:
Why do you think you’re owed even a chance at escape?
Yeah!
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Let the killers have this niche scenario. I've almost never seen it.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212893#Comment_3212893
The game is too easy as Killer in ~95% of (my) matches. If I intentionally go for max hooks as Blight, I can do so without bug abuse or massive gen regression, and only bring "feel good" perks. If I want to do that as Bubba, I might need to bring a little more lethality (bamboozle) or 2 gen regression/slowdown perks. If I want to do that as Sadako I need 3 or 4 slowdowns or 3 or 4 lethality perks (hexes usually). I am slowly trying to wean off my dependency on those perks however.
That last ~5% of matches are the matches where I actually get put against either co-ordinated SWFs, or all 4 soloq players that play like they aren't the practice bots (exaggerating). Those are the matches where my skills are actually put to the test as opposed to slowly painting by numbers a foregone conclusion of a "win".
When someone starts to crutch on camping and tunneling they don't build up the muscle in their Killer legs to walk on their own without it. To anyone that claims they can't "win" any match without camping, tunneling, or X perk (setup), I recommend you throw off what is holding you back. Struggle, build back up your muscles, and you will be able to walk, run, and sprint again in no time. Some Killers are so bad that they may require some level of crutch to be playable (Corrupt Intervention on Trapper for example), but most don't.
I can "win" camping and tunneling and in a recent match as Wesker I pulled off a 3k. I couldn't adapt to people greeding the gens at the cost of their fellow Survivor's hook states. My intel perks were tied to unhook (Lethal Pursuer+floods of rage and at least 1 Surv had Distortion), so after hook I had no good direction in where to go. I could barely find people and when I did they would fall quite quickly. Eventually I was able to get all but one of them. MMR says I "won" that match, but I know the truth, I lost.
It's just hard to believe that you have it that easy as killer. Many killer players like myself know how to chase normally, and if it weren't for that knowledge, we couldn't camp or tunnel as effectively because the survivor wouldn't be on the hook in the first place. There's no room to grow as a new killer, because if you just go for chases, you're gonna lose at a certain point. Killers don't want to lose over and over, due to gen speed, not because of survivors looping really well, just to get good with killer. When they get good, they'll come to the same conclusion that we have, which is that it just isn't worth it, and you're better off tunneling.
You're pointing out exactly what I'm saying. Killers that suck need gen defense and need to tunnel. We just disagree on how much of the killer roster sucks. I think everyone but Nurse, Blight, and maybe Artist and Wesker sucks. They don't have the potential to down quick enough to stop the gens from all getting done. I'm experimenting with Pain Res/Overcharge/Pop right now, and maybe that will change my mind. But I still think those perks at least by themselves are way overrated. If anything, I am playing hard mode from everyone else's pov, because I don't use Call Of Brine/Overcharge/Eruption. I think it's countered by gen tapping.
Don't let some misplaced sense of honor take away your win. There's no stinking honor in any of this, and even if there was, the survivors aren't gonna recognize that because they insult you whether you play fair or not. If you get 3-4 kills, regardless of the means, you win. I would love to be your opponent if I knew that you wouldn't use every strategy available to you to beat me.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212771#Comment_3212771
Um, so you're saying you've only camped and tunneled against good survivors? :)
No, but I had to play it safe. If you wait til you're losing to camp and tunnel, you just lose. I'd love to play chill against chill survivors, just blindly going for chases. But I can't do that, because if I do that against an efficient team, which I had no indication of just off of seeing them in the lobby, I lose. After all, even mediocre survivors can beat you if they're quick enough on gens. Looping strength literally doesn't matter for survivor until they start facing Nurse and Blight.