crogers271
crogers271
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635696#Comment_3635696
I mean we have to test this out if it actually does, but at the absolute minimum, all gens are 4 time locked for 30 seconds plus the 40 seconds on top of that. That is already broken.
In worst case scenario it works as i think it does. 12 seconds for Grim embrace and another 30 seconds for Dead Mans Switch since it is still running. For sure on all of those who were not on a gen during Grim Embrace.
No matter what, the game is bascially locked for an absolute minimum of over 2 minutes. No progress at all. And after that, the usual insanity with UW, Painres and DMS begins.
In worst case scenario it works as i think it does. 12 seconds for Grim embrace and another 30 seconds for Dead Mans Switch since it is still running. For sure on all of those who were not on a gen during Grim Embrace.I don't think it works that way, but maybe I've been playing against DMS wrong. DMS lasts 30 seconds from the hook. If it triggers at the 29 second mark, the gen is blocked for 1 second.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635684#Comment_3635684
They dont. You just UW after the 12 seconds when they hop back on gens.
They dont. You just UW after the 12 seconds when they hop back on gens.It's not quite that bad, though it can be pretty bad. Grim Embrace doesn't trigger until the killer moves away from the hook and DMS has its own timer. So DMS could in theory add extra 14 seconds of lockdown to GE (which would be absurdly powerful), but it will usually be under 10 seconds (just very powerful). That might not be too different as many survivors on gens will start running when they trigger UW anyway.
Just to cover the math: DMS timer starts with the hook of 30 seconds. GE triggers when the killer is 16 m away from the hook, so that is ~4 seconds. Count to 12 in your head from that point, then open a locker. Except if you do it right away many survivors won't have gotten back on gens yet, so you'll trigger UW without DMS. Then you'll have to move around to trigger it on the gens that are farther away from where you opened the locker.
Is it still really powerful? Yes. Especially if you aren't going for pain res on the first hook but the second, that way you increase the likelihood of a second good DMS. But I think DMS is gilding the lily of the build, the other three perks would be oppressive all on their own. Alternatively you could just run UW and DMS right now, they are a pretty powerful combo on their own (basically game breaking on a map like midwich).
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It's going to be powerful, probably too powerful, there are a few things that can be done.
Toolboxes + built to last. Plan to spend time in lockers.
Boons have more value as now spending the time to put one in play is not wasted because the gens are blocked (or inner strength).
Run resilience and don't ever worry about heals until gens are blocked.
Prove thyself might have a little more value. Group up on gens to finish them before the gen block / pain res happens, also limits the amount of gens that are blocked by DMS.
Basically: gen rush even more. It becomes critical that the first chase is at least decent and the survivors break the center gens.
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@Peanits said:
Others have beat me to it, but I can add a little bit more context. It mostly comes down to time.
The PTB window is already fairly tight. Once the PTB goes live, we have about a week to figure out what changes we'd like to make, implement them, playtest them, and QA them. After that, the update needs to be sent off to the various platforms so it can be certified (where they ensure it is safe and works correctly). By this point, it is too late for another PTB; any feedback we receive from it would be past the cutoff for the release and could not possibly make it in. We use this time to work on any other changes that are needed for one of the following hotfixes.
Beyond that, we have to keep in mind that there's nowhere near as many people playing the PTB as there are on the live game. The PTB is only available on one platform, and only a fraction of players on that platform make the switch. Within a few days, the number of people on the PTB drops significantly. When a brand new update hits the PTB for the first time, it's obviously exciting and a bunch of people want to check it out. But the second time around, it'd be much less so. It's the same content again, but slightly different. The number of people who would be interested enough to check it out would be even lower. The PTB is great because we can get feedback from a wide range of people, but if that sample size is too small, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The PTB is a great step to have, but just because something goes to the live version doesn't mean it's final. This is a live game at the end of the day. Things will change, we will reassess, and then they may change again if necessary. We'll always try to get it right the first time around, but nothing is set in stone if we don't.
Thank you for responding.
Does the first round of the PTB have to be as long as it is? As @WhoSoup and you mentioned most people play within the first few days. It's not just add a second PTB onto the existing schedule, but shorten the first PTB to give some time for a potential second.
A second round of the PTB would attract less interest, I can see that, but being less things are being tested I would think those are more focused. Especially when we're talking about something like an overhaul to a killer that Sadako is looking at I'd feel you'd get plenty of feedback on that.
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My biggest complaint is I wish I didn't know it existed. It's kind of in the back of the mind with wins and losses over what it will mean for future games.
I'm pretty happy with my survivor matches lately. My teammates seem skilled and I still see a decent variety of killers. I don't want to go back to a lower MMR were the teammates were awful, or a higher MMR were its purportedly just a few killer types.
As killer, it definitely encourages me to avoid meta builds.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634672#Comment_3634672
I think their point was the same is true for scrim and comp killers having a gap with average killers as well, and if in an equal field of comp vs comp or scrim vs scrim the killers have to tunnel, then in an equal field of average vs average they would also have to tunnel. Because in both cases the skill level is equal.
So the question is, why would it be different when both teams are maybe not comp level, but still the same level?
If on an equal field of comp vs comp or scrim vs scrim the killers have to tunnel, then on an equal field of average vs average they would also have to tunnel. Because in both cases the skill level is equal.DbD changes far more than a symmetrical game between skill levels. In a symmetrical game as you advance in skill levels, your opponents advance in the same way. DbD adds completely new things at upper levels to one side only: there is no killer equivalent to getting three other survivors, planning out a strategy, and using a map callout system for maximum efficiency.
The path to becoming a really good killer is more direct than the survivor route. Choose a killer and play them a ton. You'll never get truly great unless you are seeking out other super competitive players, but you can get quite far. As survivor, you have to play survivor a ton, but then also go and find three other people who've also played survivor a ton and work out being on a team.
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Incapacitated was considerably worse in that you could do nothing. You can now at least heal, do a totem, or move to a different gen that will unblock sooner. I'm not looking forward to the new meta, but its not as bad as incapacitation was.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635089#Comment_3635089
I never use slowdown perks so I dont know how it work.
Grim Embrace gonna block all Gens for 12sec for each fresh hook? Then 40sec for the 4th fresh hook?
And DMS increase the timer of blocking all Gens?
DMS has its own timer that starts from the moment the killer hooks a survivor. If you release a gen 29 seconds later, its only going to be blocked for 1 second.
So if I understand the math it goes: Killer hooks, DMS timer starts. Killer moves 16 m away from hook (approximately 4 seconds, blight/teleporters being quicker), Grim Embrace triggers. All gens are now blocked for 12 seconds, those gens which a survivor had been working on are now blocked for ~26 seconds (the time remaining in DMS). So DMS is giving the killer around 14 seconds of extra blocking on up to 3 gens, though survivors can still move to one of the gens that hadn't been worked on for when that unblocks after the 12 second grim embrace.
Being a 4th hook with grim embrace triggers for 40 seconds, DMS has no impact on that hook.
I'm not as worried about DMS as I am just the strength of grim embrace. It is a little worrisome that there is no way to play around it really: in the game right now you can let go of a gen to dodge a possible pain res, but unrealistic to waste the time guessing when a killer will move away from the hook.
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I feel like it's going to create a meta on the survivor side were nothing gets done but gens until they are blocked. Heals can be put off until the gens are blocked. Maybe we'll see a few more boons / inner strength / built to last so people have something to do while they wait for gens to unblock.
I'm thinking about toolboxes and built to last. Blow through the toolbox on the gen, then the survivor just recharges the toolbox while waiting for them to unblock.
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I'm not going to use it, but I can see ways it can come into play. If you are a survivor who is good at chase and take the first chase the perk is kind of powerful. The idea wouldn't be that you try and keep the killer near one gen, the idea is that as you and the killer are in chase you'll keep hitting the other survivors with 8% boosts.
A 36 m radius means you can impact 72 m of the map. If the survivors are spread out on gens it would actually be pretty hard not to have someone being affected, and it easily could be more than one. You wouldn't need to adjust your playstyle to really have it impact and the highlighted gens would tell you places not to run too close to.
It's not going to be game breaking or anything. I'm not a survivor who seeks out chase so it wouldn't be good for me, but pair it with a survivor trying to take chase it could be useful.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634085#Comment_3634085
Oh for crying out loud, if a game is triggering to real life issues then you need to deal with your real life issues and play the game afterwards.
As harsh as it sounds, no game tutorial can fix someone’s perpetual self deprecating victimhood. That needs to be fixed outside of the game.
As harsh as it sounds, no game tutorial can fix someone’s perpetual self deprecating victimhood. That needs to be fixed outside of the game.You're making so many massive assumptions about people. In your first post you say:
I guess adversity, even minor adversity, really does reveal someone's true character."You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting".The idea that a video game is revealing people's character is absurd. DbD is a stressful game, more so because of the lack of a tutorial.
Now there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game because it is stressful, its one of the things I find appealing about the game. But there is nothing good about it either. It's just an entertainment choice, not a revealer of character.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634085#Comment_3634085
If somebody doesn't want adversity in their games, they should probably avoid PVP games. Adversity is kinda the whole point.
Competition and variety (humans offer a lot more playstyles than computer opponents) are the point, but those are much different than adversity.
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@pseudechis said:
Why is loss (even a crushing one) something to be avoided at all costs or so jarring as to ruin the experience?
I guess adversity, even minor adversity, really does reveal someone's true character.
"You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting".
Many people have enough adversity in their life that they also don't need it in the form of video games. There's no pride to be found in what types of entertainment you find appealing.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633887#Comment_3633887
Reaching 8 on one generator (if not 3-genning from the beginning) is indeed not an everygame occurence.
However in the PTB, when using any gen-kick perk (not even regression-based, like Nowhere To Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip and Trail of Torment) then it wasn't rare that, when Survivors inevitably 3-genned themselves, at least one of the gens was at least halfway through it's regression events. A Killer shouldn't have to count every time they use one of those perks because it might make the last gen harder to defend.
Why should the Killer have a tougher endgame because they kicked gens for perk value in-between chases? If the system only kicked-in during the last gen then it would be more fair since a 3-genner (who brought a build for that) who didn't commit to chases and hooks will have to deal with a team in better shape at the end and would burn through their regression events quicker than a Killer playing normally that just ended up in a 3-gen that the Survivors created (which is most 3-gen instances) that will likely have to deal with a weakened team and have chase perks. Sure regression can only go so far but that way regular players would be less punished than 3-genners (which is the goal, and the whole marketing for this idea in the first place was to only affect 3-gen infinite game).
at least one of the gens was at least halfway through it's regression events.Halfway? By the end of the game? What does that even matter?
The feature has no relevance unless it get to 8 and a 9th is needed. If half is as close as we're getting that is plenty of wiggle room.
If the system only kicked-in during the last gen then it would be more fair since a 3-gennerBecause if you had 8 regressions and it only kicked in at last gen we still have the situation where the killer can draw the game out. The reason for the change isn't survivors winning or losing, its that the long games of attack, reset, attack are not fun.
If the survivors do what they should and try and break the 3 gen from the beginning and the killer uses up some/most of his regressions, that means the survivors aren't stuck in a game bleeding through all of those regressions just to finish the last gen.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633776#Comment_3633776
Then they're doing more than fine at high MMR to ever complain about "killers are struggling at high MMR"
This is funny because its true. The 'survivors are way too strong' and 'watch as I still win' combo is one of my favorite types of posts.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Not really topic, just wondering
Why do people have the need to change definitions community made up years ago?
Last year some people try to call tunneling as "kill rushing" for some reason and now they are trying "gen tunneling"?
Its still the same thing, no need to change how we called it for years.
Also its not something bad or good, its just an action taken in a video game, everyone tunnels sometimes, no need to be ashamed of it so much that you feel need to change the name of it
Why do people have the need to change definitions community made up years ago?It's a rhetorical trick to try and win an argument. If people have already reached the conclusion that X is bad in their minds, if you can convince them that Y is also X you can piggy back off the decision they've already made.
So if you already believe that tunneling is bad, I don't have to convince you that gen rushing is bad if I can instead convince you that gen rushing is the same as tunneling. This is easier to do if you slap the same label on it. I now have two ways to convince you of my point of view.
It's not really unique to this community, its very common in politics/social movements to argue over definitions to make the rest of the argument as favorable to your side as possible. The thing that makes this community different than others is that we are much more us vs them (much like politics) because people have preferred sides. Symmetrical games people have preferred character mains/weapons/etc, but not whole sides. You can still have disagreements, obviously, but they don't get as heated because there isn't the mass presumption of bias.
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I never pay attention to blood points so the idea that players were doing it for BP never crossed my mind.
I always presumed it was because if they see me coming for an unhook, know that they have enough meter for an attempt, and they successfully self unhook, we save a couple of seconds not having to do the unhook animation and start the heal right away.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633704#Comment_3633704
First, thanks for taking the time to actually review the footage instead of just making blanket accusations of "obviously a 3 gen killer" like others have. Kudos!
Anyway, I'm basing it of the DAMAGE EVENTS on the upper right, so I wasn't counting the failed skill check. I didn't point it out here because I forgot (I pointed it in the original post), but I was counting the grab at the beginning as a surge hit because under normal circumstances, a lunge like that would have been an expose down, not a grab for some weird reason (client\server confusion, I guess). That's the 8th. I wanted to avoid a grab so I'd get surge value. The game just said NOPE. XD
My point I was making is that reaching 8 isn't some "incredibly rare thing" that happens and that even a LOWER number was initially thought of as being incredibly super rare but "8" to be safe isn't actually realistic in a match. Remember, they said their actual target was under 8...that under 8 is incredibly rare (whatever that might be....6?) and 8 was a "buffer".
For The Game, it's 8 surge\kick events, but 12 if you count the locker grabs because again, under normal circumstances, those would simply be a down and trigger surge. It's just happenstance they hopped into a locker (not all survivors are smart enough to locker to avoid a surge hit, so kudos to them...but that's a rarity). Also, the statement that kicks would have been more effective doesn't come into play here. The gen would have less progress, but the amount of regression events would not change since they never did a tap and go. I leave gens, so they always have 4s+ on a gen. Again, both scenarios are showing the same thing. BHVR says that their initial number UNDER 8 gens is incredibly rare (I'm guessing 6?), but to be safe, they bumped it to 8 so it's super super super rare to happen...AND that it would ONLY happen in a 3 gen situation. All 3 of those videos show this simply isn't true. The fact is, this new change absolutely IS affecting killers who are NOT just camping gens from the beginning of the match refusing to do chases, and that 8 regression events is NOT a super incredibly rare situation that only happens when it's a 3 gen camp.
Here's the kicker though of the point I'm trying to make. In ALL of those matches, I hit 8+ regression events (again, the outdoor map that grab would have been a surge if it wasn't for client\server desync). That is with me only using a SINGLE regression perk - just one....and no information kick perks. If I had been using other regression perks, or making good use out of stuff like Nowhere To Hide, it would have been hitting 8+ MUCH faster. Just for an example's sake in the ones you types out, if I was using eruption, I would have capped out on the center gen about 4 minutes into the match (if you ignore the desync, 6 minutes otherwise) which very well could have changed the outcome of the match (as the gens are far spread out and a slow m1 killer takes a long time to get to the outer edges), all while I was never 3-genning. That's a problem. This absolutely 100% affects non-3 genning killers.
Now, I'll grant you, those survivors were in a losing situation - absolutely. You are correct, there. However, I'm not comfortable with survivors getting outplayed, or survivors making terrible decisions, and the game responds with an automatic killer nerf baked into the match because of that. What we are essentially doing is giving free catch up mechanics for poor decisions for the survivors. That's like giving basekit NOED to killers. Killers didn't play well early on and made poor choices? No worries, can still get a free leg up in the endgame. (not a fan of NOED obviously, ha). Remember, this was only support to hurt 3 gen killers who camp from the beginning and never chase. It's not working out that way.
TLDR;
Essentially, this heavily discourages killers from using kick information perks entirely, because if killers are simply running surge only and hitting 8 regression events (or even near 8 events) in normal non 3 gen situations, then there is absolutely NO room for kick information perks or additional regression perks...as if they do, they will absolutely breach the 8 limit fast. At the end of the day, this change negatively affects killers who specifically are not 3 genning. THAT is my point. Killers will be discouraged from using info kick perks, more than one regression perk, or have to stop to plan out "should I kick that gen?" when they could just freely do so before. Killers already have enough to balance on their plate. No matter how one could say "well the survivors were losing anyway" or "killers are overpowered anyway" or whatever else one might come up with, at the end of the day, non-3-genning killers are being ACTIVELY discouraged from playing as they normally would (info kick perks, seeing a gen and feeling free to kick, wanting to use perks like eruption, etc...). That goes beyond the scope of "this will only affect 3 gen camping killers who don't chase", and that's my point. Not if the survivors would have won or lost anyway...the point is this nerf is out of scope...beyond its intended target. As BHVR said earlier in this thread, now killers will have to be more mindful if they think they should kick something. That's a global statement to all killers...not 3 gen camping lame ones.
Now, confession time. I'm mostly coming from the POV of someone who mostly plays M1 killers. Most M1 killers can't afford to leave the central area of the map. Gens are just too far away to reliably defend. While other killers have sprints, teleports, and so on, killers like myers\GF\pig\trapper and such absolutely cannot afford to run off to a gen off in a far corner. Staying central and not doing extended chases are mandatory, and they are highly susceptible to being bullied. That's why on the Xeno, I feel I don't even have to stay central, I can just use the tunnels to get to even far away gens. His pressure is map-wide. M1 killers don't get that. They depend on gen control perks to buy them time to even do chases, as their chase power is abysmal. If BHVR's whole goal is to eliminate gen control as a killer tactic and purely go on chase's alone, the M1 killers seriously need some reworks. They can only afford to do short chases. This change really hurts their ability to control gens which leaves them holding the bag vs the rest of the killers who are more chase capable. This, I feel, is because m1 killers are strongly encouraged to stay centralized in the map, as the gens incredibly far away just aren't feasible to defend. If this change goes live, then M1 killers need options to spread themselves out further more viably. If we truly want to stop the 3 gen situation, then kicking m1 killers while they are down isn't the answer, reconsidering map design and gen placements is - or at the very least let the m1 killers branch out easier without being punished.
Thank you for coming to my DED talk.
Personal note - thank you once again for engaging in an actual productive discussion. You have my gratitude!
My point I was making is that reaching 8 isn't some "incredibly rare thing" that happens and that even a LOWER number was initially thought of as being incredibly super rare but "8" to be safe isn't actually realistic in a match. Remember, they said their actual target was under 8...that under 8 is incredibly rare (whatever that might be....6?) and 8 was a "buffer".Up above though you said you had this happening on a 'regular basis', this seems much closer to 'incredibly rare' then it does 'on the regular'. @jmwjmw27 goes through the gen regression events. I've watched the second video in another thread, I watched the third here. You rely a lot on if statements - if the survivors didn't jump into a locker for example. Except this was a bully squad (it looks potentially like just a 2 person SWF, the one girl tries to kill herself on hook early in the game), they never would have played this way if not going for head ons (you can't just discount locker grabs when survivors are specifically playing for lockers because if they weren't you have no reason to presume you'd even be in the same area by the time you got a down).
Also, Mandy never said their "target" was under 8. They said their data was under 8.
Essentially, this heavily discourages killers from using kick information perks entirely, because if killers are simply running surge only and hitting 8 regression events (or even near 8 events) in normal non 3 gen situations, then there is absolutely NO room for kick information perks or additional regression perks...as if they do, they will absolutely breach the 8 limit fast.I can see a possibility of a person playing with Surge getting a gen to 9 regression events under current rules (which is the important number here, 9, not 8, if you hit 8 in a match and never need a 9th its irrelevant). I still see no reason to believe this would be anything other than incredibly rare or that by the time it happened the killer hadn't already won the game. But running gen kick perks are a radically different situation than surge (which means at most this perk is a slight nerf to surge, though surge is already getting indirectly nerfed because kicks are more powerful decreasing the usefulness of surge).
I just don't get how you can disagree with incredibly rare (which is very different than never). Even in the most extreme footage of your matches, you still need to throw a couple possibilities of things that could have happened to get to a point where you would have needed a 9th gen regression, and even at that point the game is functionally over.
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@StonedDino said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632664#Comment_3632664
I know getting iri 1 isn't the "top rank" but it just felt easier than I thought it would be.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632668#Comment_3632668
There is some credit to this as well, if I was nice to survivors, they would often let me hit/down them before leaving.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632662#Comment_3632662
I also haven't had any experience on killer up until I played during the rank reset. I also only used nurses perk on pretty much all of my killers, because I didn't have any other killers ranked up.
I also haven't had any experience on killer up until I played during the rank reset. I also only used nurses perk on pretty much all of my killers, because I didn't have any other killers ranked up.That is impressive then as Nurse can be harder to start with.
My experiences to start off the game were not that different than yours, here were my thoughts at 30 hours. At the time I was sure I was going to quit the game do to its incredibly one sided nature. I still have lots of complaints about the game, and still think the game is heavily tilted toward killer, but I've been playing it pretty regularly for a year and a half now.
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@StonedDino said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632657#Comment_3632657
The whole reason I did the OP was because I thought it was laughably easy. I wanted to see what other people thought of this info.
The Pip system isn't really related to skill. It's just this kind of 'other thing' that the game has.
If you'd played absolutely ruthless it would have been much harder to pip at the rate you did.
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@Moman624 said:
Y'all know how knights guards follow survivors exact paths, like literally. That's really bad and his guards are just not it. I feel like you should have to press the power button to make guards destroy something, you should be able to go to a gen and just press a button that orders the guard to do so and the knight can be on his way. It sucks that knight is only good at ending loops and rarely sandwiching people. Sometimes ending loops sucks because the guard never catches them. I was hoping ptb would have did something with knight but I guess not, he's still cool though but is only truly good at 3 gen and all the camping stuff it seems like.
Y'all know how knights guards follow survivors exact paths, like literally. That's really bad and his guards are just not it.1: Not sure they could really address this given that the AI in the game is very basic.
2: If the guards were actually good at chasing down survivors, the Knight would be way too strong. His power would need to have significantly more cooldown.
I feel like you should have to press the power button to make guards destroy something, you should be able to go to a gen and just press a button that orders the guard to do so and the knight can be on his way.So the Knight could kick gens and pallets without even breaking chase? I don't think that would work out very well.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
Making it to Iri 1 in 11 hours means OP double pipped almost every single game.
Either he is a god gamer, or MMR gave him a massive head start, or he is a troll and he is lying.
He says about 11 hours and in game. Depending upon how specific he is being on his timing and how much he is factoring in lobbies, we're looking at between 50 and 80 games based on his definitions.
It's easy to pip as killer, especially at low MMR. He is choosing a playstyle that rewards pips, but also switching between killers and letting survivors go, both which keep his MMR low.
I also don't think he is laying it out as a scientific experiment, he is a new player after all, so I don't think he means he had never touched killer before keeping track. So he very well might have had some pips.
It doesn't seem very strange to me for a new player. I was very much a survivor main when I started the game in summer 2022 and I still iri 1 as killer. It takes a lot more effort now as a killer, but at low MMR games are quick and easy if you are comfortable with first person style games.
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@StonedDino said:
I started playing DBD about a month and a half ago right before my winter break for college had started. I had crazy amounts of free time to spare so I spent it learning and playing DBD. I started playing as a survivor so I could play with my friends and be able to have someone tell me exactly what the killers can do. After playing for a couple of hours I came to the realization that killers seemed very strong. I brushed it off as me being bad and salty about the game, but as I continued to play, I noticed that certain killers/playstyles would win the matches every time I would see them played. It seemed like if the killer wanted to win by either tunneling, proxy camping, or 3 gen-ing, they would almost be guaranteed the win. If the killer wasn't being super toxic in their playstyle, it would be the perk set-ups that would get them the win, with the amount of gen regression perks available as well as certain Hexes, there would basically be a new objective for the survivors. It felt like if the killer wanted to run a combination of hexes with pentimento, or a combination of gen regression perks, they would have an insane amount of pressure from the start that felt unplayable for the survivors. God, forbid they do BOTH. Regardless, I thought to myself that maybe my issue was that I didn't know how killer played, or I didn't understand that they needed to do that to win, so I decided to try and play killer myself, with some self-imposed rules.
-I would not tunnel anybody off hook
-If I hooked someone, I would leave the hook so they would have a chance to be unhooked and healed
-If I spotted someone on death hook early into the game, I decided not to chase to make the game more interesting
-I would never force a 3 gen
-I would not use map offerings to get easier maps for my killers
-I would try to get everyone to death hook before actually killing someone
-I would not slug for the 4K just because I knew the last survivor could get hatch
I played a combination of legion, nurse, and spirit. After about two days of gameplay (about 11 hours in-game) I was easily able to make it to iridescent 1. What make this even more surprising to me is that during these games about 1/3 of the games I would befriend the survivors and give them free escapes or hatch if they had just given up or given me a laugh. In the after-lobby chats, I would have survivors thanking me and saying gg about every game, simply for my playstyle, and even still I made it to the top rank with complete ease.
After saying all of that I can say with complete confidence that killer is honestly over tuned, and the anti-camp system is a complete joke. What sucks even more is that killer is rewarded for having a ######### playstyle of either tunneling, proxy camping, or forcing 3 gens.
I think that killers believe that survivors are OP, but the number of useful perks that survivors have compared to killers is an absolute joke. You see so many of the same perks on survivors because so many of them are so specific that you never get use out of them. Whereas killers have the opposite problem, and their perks work too well.
Honestly, I could be in the wrong, but I can't find any meaningful arguments of why killer is underpower, or why survivors are OP.
Honestly, I could be in the wrong, but I can't find any meaningful arguments of why killer is underpower, or why survivors are OP.You're not wrong. At the absolute upper end, not just high MMR but the best teams when they are playing sweaty, survivors have an advantage, but otherwise the advantage is generally with killer.
That said, things do even out more over time.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632038#Comment_3632038
I cannot call it anything else, not when the perk completely prevents me from getting a hook. Like I said, it is a very extreme example but I compare it to Infinite Mending Legion.
Boil Over is designed to make more difficult for you to reach a hook, just like Legion's Filthy Blade and Nasty Blade add-ons were designed to make the mending action take longer. But using Boil Over like those two players in my trial did makes it impossible for me to reach a hook, just like using those two Legion's add-ons together made the mending action take longer than doing a gen by yourself.
And the players can be blamed, because this is not something they were forced to do. No, they chose to do it, knowing full well what it does to the trial and to the killer.
The developers were very clear to say that players who abused the Legion's exploit were going to be rightfully banned. I believe this should extend to Boil Over.
And the perk needs to be changed, just like Legion's add-ons were eventually fixed.
I cannot call it anything else, not when the perk completely prevents me from getting a hook. Like I said, it is a very extreme example but I compare it to Infinite Mending Legion.1) Wasn't infinite legion though a bug?
2) BHVR put out a warning message calling it an exploit and threatening bans. Nothing in the game is an exploit until BHVR says it is. As others have said, players using bad game design is on BHVR.
3) Looking backs, lots of people disagreed with how BHVR handled it via bans instead of just kill switching the perks until they were updated.
4) I imagine BHVR would say its not an exploit because there is an end game scenario. You don't have to ever actually chase a survivor up there. You could focus on the other survivors and/or wait until they moved far enough away from where you know they are trying to run to for the down. I wish BHVR would do more to address stalemate scenarios, but that doesn't seem to be on their roadmap.
There's no rule against forcing a killer to waste time. There can't be as that helps the survivors complete their objective. It's unfun gameplay, but that's different than being bannable.
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How do you deal with this?Down a survivor and just stand over their body. If its clear they aren't even trying gens, just kill one off via bleedout.
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@baharuto48 said:
Everyone who is complaining about this game is doing it from a high MMR standpoint. Or at least they claim high MMR. The matches I have in medium to low MMR are amazing. Sometimes a killer player is overskilled and probably backfilled. Sometimes it's a survivor player that doesn't belong. Our matches are mostly balanced. DBD at this level is really fun. I am legit worried about winning too much. I love NOED because I can get through a whole match and still get sacrificed. At my level, the killers that win the most are the killers high MMR players scoff at. Unless you're someone like Hens or Skermz, high MMR must be awful. And it seems that Hens genuinely appreciates players better than he is, and Skermz just likes to bully players that aren't as good as he is. So I have to ask. What is the use of raising your MMR? Not the point, not why you do it. What is the usefulness of it as a game mechanic? If it gets you out of my lobby, ok, I'm good with that. Go. Play. Have fun.
What is the use of raising your MMR? Not the point, not why you do it. What is the usefulness of it as a game mechanic?One of the key reasons that MMR is hidden is its not supposed to be a mechanic that players think about. MMR is not a reward or a penalty, its purpose is to try and create balanced matches. Given the game is not just one of skill but sweatiness, it thus balances on how well a player plays along with the intensity of their playstyles and build.
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DbD has become more of an action thriller than a horror movie for most gameplays, but there are definitely stealth killers if you want to go that route.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629854#Comment_3629854
Killers have catch up mechanic. As I said before. 4 Gens done with 1 hook can lead to 2 kills, happen far more than 4 Gens remaining with 1 death lead to 2 escape.
The lack of catch up mechanic on survivor side is the reason why survivors give up on hook. Hook suicide on first hook is stupid, hook suicide when fail to toxic on killer is stupid (luckily they mostly DC, which bot replace them). But in cases of 1 death with 4 Gens remaining, no I dont play a match that Im guaranteed to die in the end, let me die now and go to the next match.
The lack of catch up mechanic on survivor side is the reason why survivors give up on hook.Thank you for pointing this out.
The last few weeks have had a lot of arguments that I've been trying to wrap my head around and get the logic of, the catch up mechanic being one of the more confusing. Killers turning games around is by no means unusual, while once survivors fall behind the killer its pretty much always ggs.
The idea that the killer having limited gen kicks, even though those gen kicks are strong now, is somehow going to punish the killer is very strange.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629541#Comment_3629541
Both sides of the game should have some encouragement to interact with the other side, or some punishment if they excessively refuse to interact with the other side. This shouldn't be 100% the burden of the killer, to chase survivors, even if the survivors are literally never anywhere near the generators when the killer patrols by them.
Yes, there are survivors that pre leave generators at the first sight of a visual terror radius, and runs far away and hides until the terror radius goes away, and if it's a low mobility killer that can't hide their terror radius, then this cycle can just keep going and going, where the killer just never finds anyone. And this is sometimes even worse if it's a SWF, and they are using voice comms to relay the killer's location. Why is that strategy acceptable?
Why is that strategy acceptable?1: How would you realistically detect it? Even if we agreed we wanted to prevent pre-running, how would we determine that? Regression events are a measurable thing that is straightforward (though not as straightforward as if they had just done kicks). I don't see a way it could even be done.
2: Most games usually have the onus on one side to take an action. No one likes the situation where survivors stand outside a 3 gen and the killer stands inside it ala the worst of the chess merchant days. You could say as the power role that onus falls on the killer, or you could just say realistically at this point in the game's development that's the only feasible path.
3: The increased gen kick time and lack of gen tapping makes the killer stronger in the 3 gen, it just means its not unlimited. This gives the killer a higher chance to catch the survivors, just not as much time to do it.
4: The strategy you outline can be done in the game right now. The change mercifully shortens it.
This is the big one for me. As the game exists, survivors can dart in and out on a 3 gen. If the killer does not chase, the killer will lose. It just can take a long time. The killer still loses here, it just doesn't take as long.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629118#Comment_3629118
The concerns dropped because the popular concern was never really valid. People aren’t often doing 8+ regression events on the same generator, in normal gameplay.
The real concern should have involved what happens if survivors were literally trying to force 8 regression events, by repairing in short bursts and excessively hiding.
We have a major double standard, where it’s absolutely believable that killers would go through extreme lengths to win games, but most people think it’s super unbelievable that survivors would be willing to go through extreme lengths to win games.
The real concern should have involved what happens if survivors were literally trying to force 8 regression events, by repairing in short bursts and excessively hiding.We have a major double standard, where it’s absolutely believable that killers would go through extreme lengths to win games, but most people think it’s super unbelievable that survivors would be willing to go through extreme lengths to win games.But how would that happen? Not talking ethics or game enjoyment, just purely how do people pull this off while going for a win.
On the double standard, I absolutely agree with the idea that survivors would go to extreme lengths to win a game, but why would these be a viable approach and how is it different than the game right now?
In the game right now survivors can go to a gen, work on it, and immediately hide as soon as they hear the terror radius / their SWF tells them the killer is coming. They can then come back out and work on the gen after the killer has left.
Under the current system, the survivors will finish the gens. Under the new system, survivors will finish the gens. Survivor gen speed far outpaces the killers ability to reset it.
At least the idea of a mass amount of surges in one area is something I could hypothetically see happening. I just think it would be incredibly rare and, even in that event, the killer has probably won the match anyway. I just don't see from a math standpoint how this can be a valid tactic.
Survivors might do it to bully the killer, just to prove they could, but they could do that anyway right now.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629156#Comment_3629156
Not necessarily a win. They could have been kicking my ass by also hitting other gens. They had an incredibly lucky killer shack right next to 3 center gens on top of having the center building available for looping. In this example, sure, the survivors totally screwed up, but only because they were an swf obsessed with wanting to do altruistic swarms. If they actually tried, the match could have gone very different, and I would have been completely locked out from one of the 3 center gens. That's absolutely being punished all in the name of "stopping the killer from just sitting at the 3 gens and never doing chases from the beginning of the match" as BHVR claims is ONLY when this would kick in and "normal non camp matches will never reach 8 regression events". That is completely incorrect.
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629222#Comment_3629222
Doesn't matter if it puts them into a winning position. If the survivors are making mistakes, they shouldn't be getting freebie catch up mechanics to give them a chance to win. That's would be like making NOED basekit for killer. (Frankly, I don't like NOED at all to begin with).
BHVR claims is ONLY when this would kick in and "normal non camp matches will never reach 8 regression events". That is completely incorrect.If the survivors are making mistakes, they shouldn't be getting freebie catch up mechanics to give them a chance to win.So these are both going to fall into the list of four things that come up. This isn't just a killer thing, but the way any player can look at the game.
The first, the 'ONLY', is an unrealistic and overly exacting demand of a game feature. The idea that a game mechanic will never come up, not even in a 100s of games of play, is unrealistic.
To take the game you showed, we have lots of 'could have' happened things.
The second is treating the game design as somehow sacred. If survivors get downed by the same group of gens and you have surge and are kicking the gens, you are still winning. There is a extremely rare scenario where they might not get downed enough to give you the complete victory and you get locked out of a gen, but the survivors have still been punished for their mistakes (lots of downs, massive gen regression). It just isn't quite as punished as they once would have been.
Like survivors could be complaining that killers are being given a free catch up mechanic with double gen kick power. But there's no sacred rule on what the amount of damage a kick should do, its all about building a healthy game.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629076#Comment_3629076
...just because they have a reputation that if someone has it they are playing for hatch.
why is this so true even after hatch rework? it's not like their aura reading abilities are weak, blood amber is insanely underrated and even "bond" add ons aren't completely useless.
why is this so true even after hatch rework? it's not like their aura reading abilities are weak, blood amber is insanely underrated and even "bond" add ons aren't completely useless.Don't know, but its hard to break a reputation once its in place. Like if everyone avoids using keys because they don't want to be perceived as hiding for hatch, that means if a person is going against the trend, it might be because they want hatch.
Also, from a psychological perspective, even if you have no intention of playing for hatch, if its down to you and another survivor, and you just happen to have that key, the thought it is definitely going to cross your mind of the use you can get out of it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629073#Comment_3629073
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629081#Comment_3629081
Can you all explain to me why these killer mains insist that survivors are somehow in a good spot if the killer is kicking the same gen 8 times? It just seems like the survivors are throwing the game from my perspective, and I can’t imagine losing a game as any killer under such a circumstance. But it appears to be a major concern for the killer mains here and on Reddit. Why?
I think the concerns have dropped a little over the past few days at least. I'd give four possibilities that I don't think are unique to killers:
1: People don't like math. This is why discussions tended to dead end when people actually tried to lay the scenarios where all of the regression events would be eaten up. Conceptually it was easy to say 'well, if I have eruption I need only this many downs' without actually looking at how much time would be spent between activations.
2: People treat new game mechanics like they've violated a set of sacred rules. This was like the AFC, even if triggers once by accident every couple of months, its not like the killer's account gets banned and the game is immediately forfeit. As much as we say we want new things, people become apocalyptic when a new thing is proposed.
3: Even before the change was announced, many killers had gotten the mindset that the 3 gen mechanic was coming to take away their ability to play the game. It's hard to get rid of a mindset if you've already embraced it, even if objectively the change with the increase kick damage / no gen tapping is a buff.
4: People take BHVR statements way too literally. BHVR said they wanted this to only impact Killers who 3 genned from the start. Many seem to have treated this as a vow and not a design goal.
I will give credit to @RpTheHotrod - he at least provided a video as requested by the OP and noted it was unusual. I was beginning to think we weren't going to get any instances of it happening.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I just recently had a match that I had 8 damage events on a single gen, but it was super unusual. All of the survivors were ignoring ALL of the gens with the exception of three center gens (and eventually one far off). They just kept pouring all of their resources into these 3 gens, so they were literally the only gens to even defend. I'd keep popping over to other gens, but nope - all of them untouched. This was even with me running away from the center 3 gens and running off to chase people (despite being a "bad idea")
The first one was technically a grab, but for all intents and purposes, that would have been a damage event via surge otherwise.
This would have actually been closer to 12 damage events if they happened to go down closer to the generator. Many of the downs they were just beyond the range of surge. If I had used eruption, then I would have reached 8 within minutes of the match starting (but then again, I wouldn't pair surge with eruption to begin with).
https://youtu.be/w_PqS6RSC8g?si=AJ8zLm4xB5qKe-jr
Now someone might say, "Oh, you won, so who cares?" Yeah, I won because the Survivors were making some serious blunders and also didn't have tool boxes or gen rushing perks. On any other match, this could have easily been a loss. They were more interested in playing altruistic than actually doing the objectives. They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.
Now someone might say, "Oh, you won, so who cares?" Yeah, I won because the Survivors were making some serious blunders and also didn't have tool boxes or gen rushing perks. On any other match, this could have easily been a loss. They were more interested in playing altruistic than actually doing the objectives. They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.But if they were actually gen rushing, would you have ever had time to get to 8?
That's the loop everyone has been going in since the 3 gen mechanic was announced. As a killer to trigger it through normal gameplay requires the survivors to play really poorly, in which case the killer has the game in hand already.
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You've got some massive line breaks in your post, makes it very hard to read.
I'd rework items entirely, but I think more items would be the wrong way to go. I'd combine keys and maps and have an item specifically dedicated to aura reading.
Keys are already pretty strong, but I usually don't bring one just because they have a reputation that if someone has it they are playing for hatch.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629021#Comment_3629021
After 4 years in these Forums, I am very skeptical about number of players being used as arguments. There are far too many factors being taken into consideration.
What do you mean?
You can like or dislike whatever you want, but player count is extremely heavy evidence on people's enjoyment of the game. If you have an explanation for how a game could become worse, grow its player base, and maintain that player base for multiple years, all the while people like the game less, I'd be interested to hear it. I can see player spikes or dips being attributed to other factors, but continued success is a much different issue.
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@GeneralV said:
What I see wrong with DBD is the game getting rid of its Golden Age and changing directions completely, something that is connected to all four notes you've mentioned.
Does anyone even remember the original map adjustments? Before the maps were ruined? Yeah, that was the first issue already fixed.
SBMM should be scrapped. Period.
As for the anti-loop killers, we have far too many of them, specifically those who aren't well designed. Huntress and Pyramid Head are good killers and their powers can be used in chases, but they aren't "leave loop and hold W" the way killers like Artist or Xenomorph are.
And the last note is a problem that fixes itself, if the game happens to be in a good spot.
There is a reason why many players say 2019 DBD was the best there ever was. We had a good thing going, but now we suddenly... don't? It doesn't add up.
There is a reason why many players say 2019 DBD was the best there ever was. We had a good thing going, but now we suddenly... don't? It doesn't add up.I'm on the other side of this. I played the game when it came out, didn't care for it. I gave it another shot when Deathgarden was out, because I really loved that game, again didn't care for it. Came back and tried it mid 2022 and have been playing it pretty much every day since.
Okay, different players like different things, that isn't that strange. Except when these issues come up we have numbers. DbD didn't really explode until mid 2021. COVID accounts for some of the change, that's why it increased during March 2020, but the explosion didn't happen until later.
Put simply, looking at the numbers, more people like the game that DbD became then what it was. Nothing wrong with being outside the group, but there's a reason BHVR has gone in the direction they have.
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@slowestratintherace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628960#Comment_3628960
I posted in the "questions" section, and specified I am seeking answers and not opinions. I don't value your opinion.
You posted in the general discussion section. There is a questions section, but it is specifically ask the community. If the mods had a sense of humor they would have moved this post over there.
@slowestratintherace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628961#Comment_3628961
I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't value your opinion.
It's kind of funny you are taking the time to respond to everyone then.
You have your answer. On killer everything your proposed is explicitly allowed and frequently done. On survivor the rules are vague. If BHVR wanted the rules to be less vague they'd make them less vague, but issues of griefing are handled on a case by case basis.
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@slowestratintherace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628686#Comment_3628686
If BHVR won't anwer me, no one will every learn the answer.
But how will we ever manage to go on with our lives without knowing this all important answer?
There are plenty of killers who play killer exactly the way you describe. You won't even be unique.
There's plenty of survivors play really poorly / give up on the game. You won't be that different.
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I don’t think I will be providing as much enjoyment to other players in the game as I was before.I doubt you'll be having very much fun either, but that's your call.
The only thing that I think might be questionable is the following:
I will continue working on generators when they attack me. If they down and hook me, so be it. I’ll try my best to unhook myself and get right back on that generator as quickly as possible.That sounds like throwing. You're allowed to play selfishly, but it doesn't seem like you are even playing at that point.
Not that I think you'd get banned, because playstyles almost never result in bans, but that's the only thing that I think is even in the vicinity of a rules violation.
Moving forward: I will tunnel, slug, and camp at every opportunity. Every hatch will be slammed shut.Enjoy high MMR.
@slowestratintherace said:
Thanks for your answers. It sounds like none of this is bannable. Once I get a clear answer from someone from BHVR, I will ask a follow-up question of BHVR. After that, I will elaborate with context. Once again, thanks everyone!
Once I get a clear answer from someone from BHVR, I will ask a follow-up question of BHVRThat's probably not going to happen, especially not a clear answer. BHVR have posted rules of the game to go off of. Situations are usually handled on a case by case basis.
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@xEa said:
I randomly stumbled across this video and i use it as a base discussion point since it is for me so far the best summerization of DBD's problems, without me having to write a big wall of text. Its only 12 minutes long, so it wont go super deep, but manages to bring the issues to the point. I will add some notes at the bottom tho. Feel free to give your 2 cents, no matter if you agree or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC16f_n7J1I
Note #1 Maps in DBD are overall poorly designed and it gets worse with every update. Borgo and Nostromo being the current low. The core issue is besides that the range within the mappool can shift between very survivor sided to very killer sided that the maps are now designed for killers with no anti-loop ability. In a game with Anti-loop killers.
Note#2 SBMM sucks the fun out of the game. It encourages to play as sweaty as possible. Former ranking system encouraged players to actually go for many hooks and genpresure while on the other side, survivors had to be constructive within all categories.
Note#3 Anti-Loop is not enough. Killers like Knight, Dull Merchant or Artist are designed for not only anti loop but basically guaranteed hits over time. Sounds familiar? Original Legion.
Note#4 Loosing the tention between killer and survivor completly. Because of the design problems, we have the situation that its all about genspeed vs killspeed. This used to be somewhat always the case, but now we are at the absolut worst that has ever been.
Constructive feedback to help the devs fixing the issue is very welcome. I will later on when i find the time add my thoughts on that. The issue is, that this game is not fixable with the bandaids we get from update to update, but rather with some fundamental changes.
Kind regards
So I watched the video. It's filled with bad logic and poor arguments.
20 seconds in to the video I've already got huge problems. He says Chucky and Alien flopped hard and could have doubled the player count.
First, no license has ever gotten a growth like that. DbD player count slowly climbed over its first two years from ~10k to ~20k players. It then stayed at ~20k players until COVID hit, were it saw substantial gains over the next two years, and then has seen a decrease from a high during the summer of 2021, which it only maintained for about six months, to a fairly standard ~30k players as the average steam count since then.
Secondly, its a misunderstanding of the live service model. While DbD would love to attract new players, the basic way they make money, especially at this point, is continually selling new content to the players that already exist. While sales numbers don't get released, I think we all saw enough Chuckies and Aliens to say that it sold well.
At around 1:20 we get the following: "BHVR has never understood the fundamentals of creating a well balanced map."
Respectfully to a lot of people who have criticisms of the game, the critics don't understand what actually makes the game successful. DbD is not designed to be a perfectly balanced game, its designed to give players unique and interesting experiences with every game feeling different.
Around 1:50 - complains about The Game and it having lots of god pallets.
Yes, and it has very few windows. He seems to mock the idea of 'hey, what would it be like if we had a map with a lot of A and not a lot of B". But that's exactly the variety that DbD goes for.
Around 2:30 talks about the idea of devs telling people to stay in their lane.
I'd say something that is much more common is critics who think they speak for the community, which is almost impossible given the game exists across multiple regions of the world that play the game differently. Like anyone, I have my criticisms of the game, sometimes major, but without some type of data point no reason to think that opinion stands for the community. Way too many critics take the idea of the devs saying anything along the lines of 'I think you're wrong' as some type of deep personal attack.
Around 3:10 he talks about his hatred of the anti-loop killer, and starts with the deathslinger and highlights Pyramid Head as the worst.
Let me be clear, he's now destroying his own argument. He starts out the video by talking about player numbers as a metric of evaluation. The problem with his argument about these killers: they came out right as the game exploded in popularity. Now I think the explosion of popularity is more linked to COVID, but if your claim is that we should evaluate the communities take on game design by player numbers, these killers were an overwhelming success.
Also, at this point he's now saying DbD has been dying for close to 4 years. Is DbD dying, or has he just never liked DbD?
We then get a few minutes of him talking about how he dislikes basically every killer but Sadako.
At 7:20: Survivors always rushed gens, it was not this extreme.
This is a non falsifiable argument. X has always been around, but I feel like X is more common now.
Overbrine and CoH went away. Players are still trying to do gens, but the killer can't slow them down as much and players don't have reasons to break away for slow heals (at least on US/European servers, watching a Korean twitch were all four survivors self heal is wild).
But I'd say the quicker games are a huge improvement of the old slog fests.
At 10:55 he is deceptive. He throws up a list of peak player counts, this is different than the the average monthly counts he cited at the beginning. Peak counts are far more variable - especially because some of the huge numbers correspond with free weekends, but even we look at them we see a different story than he lets on. December 2023 had a peak player counter of 50,431 - December 2022 had a peak player count of 46,470.
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628278#Comment_3628278
He does not, probably for the same reason i have not added any solutions to that matter, because this will be a serious wall of text and a lot of work. And it will still only cover the survace.
The issue is, the game is already so deep in trouble (fundamentaly) that it will be extremly hard to get out of it.
How do you change a map when you have a killer like Pig and a killer like Knight in the same game? Or Nurse? Or Skull Merchant? Its at the current state litteraly impossible to come up with something decent.
The argument in the video might be a little bit dramatic saying that this is the beginning of the end of DBD, but he has some strong points. When the best licenses we had in years actually lower the playerbase, something has to be done for sure. And his optinion makes sense, at least in my mind.
The issue is, the game is already so deep in trouble (fundamentaly) that it will be extremly hard to get out of it."Already so deep in trouble" - the standard for success here is wild. To stay within the genre, TCM has a steam player count of ~1k players. That's a game deeply in trouble. DBD is a game approaching its 8th anniversary in an industry were most games are lucky to remain popular for a few months. People talk about DbD like we're still in the beta stages of development.
People confuse elements of the game that they don't like with the game dying. DbD's is old, some people have grown tired of it. That's inevitable and nothing wrong with it.
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DBD has this reputation of banning achievement cheaters so is that all myth and hearsay?It's the first I've ever heard of it.
The forums have rules against talking about hacks so I'll try to be careful on my wording: did some quick research, I suspect BHVR thinks its a Steam issue, and Steam doesn't seem to care that much. In the future that might change, and modifying files always has the potential to suddenly be caught by the anti-cheat, but that's about it.
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The thing about most of the base kit game changes that were meant to discourage certain playstyle was that if a killer already wasn't playing a certain way it wouldn't affect them. If you don't camp the AFC is highly unlikely to ever impact you, if you don't swing at survivors coming off the hook the BT doesn't really matter, etc.
Basekit kindred would be powerful in any game. Okay, so maybe we just have it trigger if the killer has been camping for a period of time. Arguably this could be one of those things that close the gap between SWFs and soloq, say if the killer has been around a survivor for 10 seconds kindred kicks in.
I don't think though that would make too big of a difference. You also wouldn't need the aura power that kindred gives, you could just add an icon to the HUD which gives an indication for camping killer. That way Kindred would still retain its value.
I hate camping as much as the next survivor who wonders if my character and the killer engage in a staring contest, but basekit kindred would be way too much.
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I always thought they should institute an 'entity is bored' mechanic. This would have caught up face camping, slugging for the 4 minute bleed out, 3 genning, and on the survivor side, hiding out for hatch and refusing to leave via the gate. Lore wise it would give them a reason to tackle together elements on both sides of the game that are disliked. It looks like we'll get some of those (and already have), but without any concern about the lore.
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1: How do you prove to a 3rd party that someone is cheating achievements?
2: Isn't this at least partly a platform thing, not a BHVR thing?
3: Achievements are totally personal, unlike other types of cheats they don't impact anyone else. So I wouldn't be in anyway surprised had both an incredibly low priority and incredibly high standard of proof for accusations like this.
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@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627246#Comment_3627246
I did not say they need to be gods.
Nor did I say you are not a good killer.
Stop using ad hominem to create a false narrative.
You just obviously dont play against survs that know what they are doing and dont goof around.
If the devs REALLY understood their game, explain how maps like garden of joy with its main building can exist even AFTER a re visit for balancing?
How can Haddonfield main spawn with 2-3 windows and at least one god pallet next to it?
How can a TL tile, a jungle gym and shack spawn right next to each other?
If the devs are not die hard surv mains, or, at least, favour survivors more, how did survs get a HUD update that precisely tells everyone what their team is doing while kllers like onryo, plague, etc have to guess how far their power is stacked? Why do killers still have to count hooks?
Why is their accessibility options like visual TR and killers have none of that? No visual Sound cues, nothing...
Dont get me started on hexes that havent been touched and are basically useless if they spawn infront of survs. Scourge Hooks exclusively spawning in one area of the game, etc.
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
I get it, the majority of the Playerbase exclusively plays survivor. And thats why they dont understand most of the game mechanics. Killer is way less forgiving than survivor and requires much more knowledge, coordination and skill overall!
Stop using ad hominem to create a false narrative.You just obviously dont play against survs that know what they are doing and dont goof around.Those two lines being back to back is kind of hilarious.
The forum is weird. If you say as killer you get toasted by survivors it must mean you are good, but if you say you are winning all of your matches you must be bad.
If the devs REALLY understood their game, explainIf we're explaining things, how have the devs managed to have a successful game for 7 years? Why has every other game that tried to emulate the DbD formula failed/seen far less success?
If the devs are not die hard surv mains, or, at least, favour survivors more, how did survs get a HUD update that precisely tells everyone what their team is doing while kllers like onryo, plague, etc have to guess how far their power is stacked?Why did survivors have to play for years without a HUD?
But the answer here is simple: to try and lessen the gap between SWFs and soloq so that balance changes across the board can work better.
Why is their accessibility options like visual TR and killers have none of that? No visual Sound cues, nothingDetecting the terror radius is not supposed to be a matter of skill. You should either hear it, or not. Thus giving a visual indicator doesn't impact the skill expression that is supposed to be shown, but it does allow more accessibility to the role.
Hearing survivors is a killer skill. This is why survivors have tactics to lessen their sound without totally removing it. Giving visual indicators would defeat the purpose of this.
Dont get me started on hexes that havent been touched and are basically useless if they spawn infront of survs. Scourge Hooks exclusively spawning in one area of the game, etc.Many things in the game run on a risk / reward system which has a high degree of RNG. The same here is true for a survivor running a boon build, even if they have the map totem spawns memorized (which is an unrealistic ask), it might take them checking multiple spots before they find one (and on some maps the spots can be pretty bad).
Not to mention that survivor perks are much more dependent on guessing killers and their strategies. Pain res, pop, etc. have value regardless of what the survivors bring, a healing build vs a Plague is a waste of perks, Reassurance against a non-camping killer is a dead slot, etc.
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers.There's more issues.
I get it, the majority of the Playerbase exclusively plays survivor.That's just silly. The majority of the playerbase definitely doesn't just play one role.
As a fundamental matter the game needs more survivors than killers. I'm actually surprised that BHVR gives as much equal attention as they do.
Killer is way less forgiving than survivor and requires much more knowledge, coordination and skill overall!You're entitled to feel that way, but its one of the most frequent disagreements among the playerbase. Some find survivor stressful/difficult, some find killer stressful/difficult, its just the way it is. I play a few games of killer and then move onto something else because I get bored playing killer really quickly as, win or lose, it doesn't feel like it requires a lot from me.
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@C3Tooth said:
As an artist, I wish I have the creativeness equal to some people makeup a DBD scene on their own to prove a point.
If a team allow you to kick Gens 50 times with the new change,that is 250sec of Gen regression without a slowdown perk. The advantage is on you, not survivors…
As an artist, I wish I have the creativeness equal to some people makeup a DBD scene on their own to prove a point.I think the creativity of the Artist is overrated. Just shoot your crows out at loops or gens.
Kidding, but the first time I read that I did a double take as I thought what being an Artist main had to do with creativity.
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I think NOED is an incredibly important perk. It existence, whether or not the killer has it, makes the end game much more interesting.
That said, some players dislike the randomness of NOED. If you get a down and the totem that gets hexed is right by the hook, well there's very little counterplay in that scenario Survivors who had been winning can lose a person or two because of the RNG on where things spawn.
To me, those dangers make the game more exciting, even if when they go against you they can feel bad.
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I think the way he runs (the animation) makes him seem faster. I've felt that way when playing against Wesker that he seems faster than other killers. His model actually looks like he is running.
On the other hand, as survivor, I'm always surprised to see Clown catching up to me.
None of that though is visible from the killer perspective.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
We need more Feng® Cosmetics. Hoping for a Godzilla Themed Rift sometime! lol
I've never purchased a cosmetic. If we get a Feng Godzilla outfit I'll change my mind.