caipt
caipt
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she was not okay before she was arguably the weakest killer in the game, her only redeeming quality being her map mobility.
You can completely counter her power by just grabbing a tape. grab a tape.
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let the age of glorified deadzones begin
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no, spirit needs her power to get hits in chase and its not on the level of teleporting or doubling your speed. She has enough limitations already (long cooldown, 110%, cant see survivors) that limtiation her perk choice we be a step too far.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I think if we’re at the point we’re considering adding a unique running animation to a Haste effect just to counterbalance it, something is wrong with that effect. While it would make its use more obvious to killers, it doesn’t change how powerful MFT actually is.
Fwiw, I agree that the Endurance should be removed - it’s overkill, and I’d even go as far as saying Haste stacking should be completely removed for both sides, not just survivors. But MFT’s run speed can’t be fixed just by giving it an obvious tell. While it has counterplay in some situations, there are also a lot of situations where it really doesn’t, or simply provides far too much value even if the killer gets the down eventually. The problem with MFT is that the perk is simply way too easy to activate. Being injured and not exhausted is not nearly restrictive enough for how powerful its effect is. It either needs a more restrictive limit on its use, or it needs to have a time limit, or something. It also should not synergize with Dead Hard as well as it does right now, that basically defeats the point of not being able to use it while exhausted.
this is mostly unrelated, but if all haste stacking was removed would pwyf need to be recoded? right now I think it functions off +5% per token, not +10% for 2 and 15% for 3 if you know what I mean.
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@dbdthegame said:
Killers will get 12k BP if survivors split gens and pop everything inside 4 minutes. Incentives are fine.
most survivors will barely manage 12k if they die, regardless of anything they did in the trial. survivor in general should get like a 50% bp boost at base.
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I unironically thought self care was the best perk in the game and though running to a corner and self caring was this brilliant high level play
I remember it was around when artist came out, I had no concept of which killers were good or bad until people started calling her S tier "like blight" and I was all like "what blight is terrible" because I was bad
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564563#Comment_3564563
Ping is 38 on average, better luck next time buddy.
Once again, fix your router. that or nemmy needs to fix his. this is barely the fault of hitboxes, when the ping gap is over 1m then its a clear ping issue on someones end.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EnEx8WQP67uceTrWA2C15_qlPBkvsY48/view?usp=share_link
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- demogorgon cant be purhcased anymore.
- twins is confirmed to be getting a rework. sometime. probably.
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It wouldnt even be tough to fix. You could just make it stop making a sound after like, the third one. seeing the notification would give the same value, and the little red indicator arrow showing you where to turn to see it would still appear. I'd like to believe survivors wouldnt spam you if they knew how bad it was.
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Seriously! I have 2.1k hours (mostly on killer but I digress) and I'm still getting matched with people playing basic survivors with barely leveled perks.
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@radiantHero23 said:
The problem in my opinion is the hatch, forcing a Rng-based situation.
something of a necessary evil that just encourages eviler play.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564903#Comment_3564903
Ds isnt useless though
It is against most A tiers and all S tiers, but the 66% of the roster without a range/chase power its still strong against
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564149#Comment_3564149
I am not quite sure how Adrenaline is a second chance perk, honestly.
But that aside, Adrenaline while it is a strong perk, also means, that this survivor played with only 3 perks for most of the game. Which is very risky and leaves them vulnerable. As dumb as it sounds, your best way to counter it is to win before it activates. I know full well that this won't always work but they play at the same handicap as you with Noed. They give up strength for the longest part of the game to get a very good effect at the end and if you can prevent the gens from getting done, then it does nothing. Slow down perks, info perks and chase perks can help you to either stall the game until you win or save so much time, that you win before the survivors finish the gens.
I can't really give you much better advice in that regard because I don't know how you play, what perks you have unlocked and use and what killer you play. But it helps to reflect upon what happened during the game and how the survivors reached end game. Did you lose a bunch of time somewhere, or were they maybe just that fast on gens?
Plot Twist is one of these perks, that don't necessarily need to be countered. If a survivor tries to use it agressively in combination with Power Struggle and Flip-Flop, then your best play is to ignore them or get someone else to drop the pallet they downed themself under. They are likely going to follow you, which means there are only 3 survivors on gens. 2, if you chase someone else. This automatically puts you in a favorable position.
adrenalines a second chance but its an earned one so its easily my favorite
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564566#Comment_3564566
As it should. By default, they already are faster than survivor. And even with mft, killers still are.....by default. And they get bloodlust.
why should mft not follow that same rule? the 15% difference is a core part of dbd's design, forcing into 12% is devastating for lower tier killers.
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@gnehehe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/394274/mft-defenders-confuse-me
Not on the MFT team, but you can find even worse: people defending nurse kekw
I don't really think she needs nerfs to her basekit but additions that add counterplay. With her addon nerfs and special attack change shes at least manageable in chase (though soloQ teammates wont care), but she doesnt interact with regular dbd enough. bringing back stun-fatigue and lightburn etc would probably be the perfect change.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564661#Comment_3564661
Meh you forgot the most important haste, bloodlust 1 and it's not hard to get it's just normal gameplay and basekit, new SM has permanent haste and slow effects if you complain about mft you should complain about that too it's unfair, any % speed of 115 is also much much stronger than % speed of 100
even PWYF stacks if you play any tombstone Myers you know stacks are not that hard to get and it's much more powerful than mft, very often in my games I'm convinced someone has mft and they don't in end game screen, they're just good, I can't tell if someone has it 90% of the time
anyway what do you propose for a nerf ? delete endurance and 2% speed ? people will complain forever even at 1% speed
While I understand the sentiment not all haste is created equal. SM's haste/hinder is very strong but it has specific activtions conditions and areas of effects.
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dredge+coldwind is often a hellish experience
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I have two builds for survivor:
Adrenaline, OTR, Reassurance and Sprint Burst
Deliverance, We'll make it, Empathy, MFT.
The former I use more often in swf because im more likely to get adrenaline and reassurance value, but still use frequently in solo for the overall all-rounderness of it.
The latter is a newer build I've been using quite often. I noticed how soloQ teammates were just always injured and the heal time sink could lose the game along with the added vulnerability. So I cae up with this build to be overall self sufficient while also playing utility/support to put myself in danger instead of my team, while also being able to help us get out of it. I am considering dropping MFT from the build, because while the 3% is very powerful its uncommon for the secondary effect to come into play, which was the reason I chose it over SB for this build.
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make demo rip their head off for real
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564566#Comment_3564566
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564568#Comment_3564568
Discussing specific perk balance is cool. I only object against closing the discussion by saying "haste = bad because loops are designed with a specific speed difference in mind".
Otherwise my main objection is that MFT is two perks in one - a chase perk and an Endurance perk. That's about the two strongest effects on the survivor side. It's killer equivalent would be a gen-regression perk that also provides aura read.
Its similar to original pain resonance in a way. Old PR already provided some of the strongest regression the game had ever seen, combining that with telling you where the gen with the most progress is AND how many people were on it was just too much.
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Dont do anything, it would be such a waste of good suffering
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564376#Comment_3564376
So how do you explain the existence of killer haste perks? Rapid Brutality, PWYF, Coup, Machine Learning, Furtive Chase. Do you also think all of these should be reworked out of principle?
Don't be mistaken - I think MFT is busted for a few reasons, but I like the general idea of speed-variance through haste and hindrance effects being in play on either side.
In all fairness those all have timers or extreme limiters. RB needs a hit and only lasts an effective 7.3 seconds. PWYF requires you to spend at least 36 seconds to build stacks quickly and loses tokens on swing. Coup requires a gen to pop and will use a token even if you didnt use the extra distance +caps at 5 so unless you are trying to use them you'll lose value. Machine learning also requires gens to pop, and furtive chase requires a hook on a specific survivor+duartion. A notable trend is that all of them have limiting activation conditions and either go away after getting value or go away after a set duration. This is in contrast to MFT, which requires you to simply be injured. While certainly a clear activation condition I would not say its a limiting one. MFT also is permanent and does not go away after getting value. I feel all haste perks should follow the former criteria, which MFT does not.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564476#Comment_3564476
your post makes no sense. a 99% SB = Exhausted. you cannot use MFT when you are exhausted. the only perk where MFT does work with exhaustion is DH. DH is only perk to work with MFT because it is only exhaustion perk that triggers at very end of the chase. when DH does trigger, DH disables MFT. I thought about writing post in regards to why resilience is an overrated perk for vault speed but it took 2 paragraph so I decided to skip it.
he said "True 99". Essentially, a true 99ed sprint burst is when the exhaustion timer ends at the exact same time you begin running. The game processes this as SB not yet triggering, even though you are running adn there is no exhaustion. So essentially its a 99d sprint burst with no exhaustion. it can be hard to accomplish, but it is very possible. MFT does have synergy with SB in this way but its really not enough to warrant running the two together.
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fix your router, nemmy has one of the most accurate hitboxes to his animation. This isnt on nemmy, its on ping and the minimal survivor hitbox desync.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564343#Comment_3564343
I'm not sure how you can say "no amount of mindgames" will "change the fact that you are gaining distance significantly slower", when the result of a successful mindgame is that the survivor does not gain any distance at all, and in fact loses distance. That's what a mindgame is and what it's for, so would you mind clarifying what you mean here?
because thats just a fact, skill won't stop MFT from slowing your gain. Sure a good mindgame could get you the down but MFT makes it take much longer to get into those situations where thats even viable along with making failing mindgames more forgiving. Plenty of times I've moonwalked a survivor or something and MFT will just barely keep them from reach.
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friendly reminder that wesker cannot bound on staircases in toba main. It wont let you charge or fire one while on them and treats their beginning and ends as walls. It effictively turns that structure into a near infinite for wesker.
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@DrKetchup said:
You know, every killer power and every loop length in the game is calculated based on the survivor speed of 4.0m/s
Surely nothing will go wrong if we change that variable, right? Right?? 🤣
honestly I feel like thats giving BHVR too much credit. those values were decided at release, back when they had absolutely no idea how to balance the game...
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seems reasonable to me. The perk already pretty mid now that med kits are balanced.
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You said it yourself: hope wasn't used until MFT entered the battle. so clearly MFT is the issue in this interaction.
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I'd say shooters are harder to master simply because the skill ceiling on aim is infinite. DBD can be harder to learn and understand in some cases though.
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yeah its annoying how entitled this community is. Its equal on both sides, but since theres more survivors in each match theres a higher likelihood of an entitled one ruining it for everyone. At least a DC gives you a bot. not that people DC when they've got a free DC with no penalty.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564349#Comment_3564349
The fact we never saw it in action is a bit of a shame.
I've been doing alright with Xeno on console mind, which given it's a precision power suggests to me it's absolutely not weak.
Xeno feels in a decent place to me, little bit better than Demogorgon and Dredge. Maybe could use a slight buff, but certainly not in a bad spot at all.
I agree, Atm he feels like a low A-high B tier killer, but that varies strongly depending on how many are in a swf. soloQ often doesnt handle turrets well while a good swf can consistently defend high value points of the map while disabling your power.
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562593#Comment_3562593
no they aren't, you love dropping a pallet and getting hit no matter what? you love vaulting at a safe distance and get hit no matter what? you love that if you drop the pallet you get hit and if you don't you get hit?
if you are getting hit over pallets, then you are the one making the bad play to drop it. You either predrop with enough distance or go for a surprise stun. If you are getting hit through windows then you arent at a safe distance. Its also quite convenient how you ignore the clear built in counterplay of turrets that which, need I remind you, force him to be an m1 killer.
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his power is still plenty good. they should revert it back to 2m/s slow though.
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yeah and while we're at it lets remove all survivor perks and make every map saloon
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561404#Comment_3561404
And bloodlust is base kit, while MfT takes a perk slot.
The biggest thing with MfT is this: experienced killers have no issues with the perk. The reaction is 'i think this survivor might have MfT' as they hook them.
The real reason that people think MfT is "a problem" is because it requires the killer to have skill in something other than kicking gens (skill in chase).
But it's far, far easier to just complain on the forums for nerfs and never examine your own gameplay, than it is to try and improve in any way.
Quite a few killers on this forum take it to the next level and their ego doesn't allow them to even consider that they might not be the absolute pinnacle of killer skill in this game. For these players, it's impossible for them to think that they could make a mistake, so any failures are necessarily the games fault, specifically 'balance issues'.
Because bloodlust is a necessary evil for the game to be playable for low tier killers. Theres a reason it deactivates on doing pretty much anything, so it only does anything for low tiers who need it. MFT is reverse blooslust in every sense. Instant, unlimited, and hurts low tiers while blight ignores it.
No, people think MFT is a problem because its bad design with 0 counterplay. You say that an experienced killer who is skilled in chase can counter MFT. With exceptions for only specific killers on specific types of loops, there is no situation in which skill counters MFT. No amount of mindgames or good power usage will change the fact that you are gaining distance significantly slower. Maybe a wesker could get a down on a TL faster than a doctor with some good flicks against the MFT user. But that doesnt change that it took longer to be in the situation where using your power was a viable play. This goes for every single killer. Thats not countering MFT, thats surviving it. The only killers where MFT is truly countered are the ones who can always use their power to get a down, in every possible scenario if you are good enough. Which boils it down to just blight nurse and spirit. Really only blight completely ignores it, since nurse loses distance 2x fast and spirits got a sizeable cooldown as a 110%.
This is not a "git gud" problem, mft is clearly unbalanced and badly designed.
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@RaSavage42 said:
What would you change, or add to the game
Perks:
Maps:
Killers:
Killer powers:
Killer addons:
Items:
Item addons:
Mechanics:
Base Game:
FYI... I add in mine after some others chime in
Perks:
Survivor:
Fleet footed. Dodging any attack grants you 200% haste for 1 second. No cooldown or exhaustion shutdown, infinite use.
Benevolence. When unhooking other survivors, they gain 150% haste for 3 seconds.
Killer:
Deific Bond. Kicking a gen blocks it for 30s. 45 second cooldown, starts after the 30s. triggering it while its still active deactivates the previous instance.
trickster map.
scooby doo chapter
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its anti face camp. is your face 16m long?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561427#Comment_3561427
Not on miss, not on swing. It deactivates on hit, though.
MFT also deactivates when Exhausted. Please note that how good/effective/balanced that deactivation requirement may be is not what is relevant here.
fair enough, its easy to forget that MFT is affected by exhaustion since its so different from typical exh perks.
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@Lobos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561389#Comment_3561389
So is killer easier now than before update 6.1? Yes, or no.. A lot of people on here and elsewhere online claim that it is.. If your answer is yes.. How exactly is it easier now than it was a year or two ago?
How many nerfs have survivors already received since then? Killers had some nerfs too sure but seems like a lot of killer mains here are forgetting all the nerfs survivors went through and are still going through and it's never enough nerfs apparently..
Depends on the killer. M1 killers post 6.1 had an easier time for sure since dh for distance stopped terrorizing them and everything was faster. MFT has made M1 killers' pain now though so it's close to even again. Right now, I'd say high tiers are easier than ever because they largely ignore MFT and thus face fewer exhaustion perks that affect them. However lower tiers are more highly effected by the current meta and are thus harder than before. Less regression + mft means that most killers have a worse time than before. I would have said the game was extremely killer sided 6 months after 6.1, but all the broken killer stuff from that patch has been nerfed down and recent meta.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561404#Comment_3561404
Not that I'm saying Bloodlust and MFT are equal, but to be fair, this isn't strictly accurate. Bloodlust doesn't reset on swing, and MFT does have a deactivation requirement.
does it not? thats stupid, it really should.Im guessing it deactivates on miss/hit and not swing then.
I guess going down counts, got me there. not very good one though.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560649#Comment_3560649
Again. That does not matter. You overtake him. You sabotage hook killer was going for. Killer hits you once and you got away. Now there's nothing more you can do - but killer can still easily go to yet another hook.
What gives? Sabotaging is just dead. Going for sabotages is now throwing. Because hook density
sabotaging isnt meant to get saves on its own, its meant to augment team plays. If you want to secure saves by yourself thats what flashlights are for.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559594#Comment_3559594
Like 5% per stack up to 15% just for being in chase?
Make it base kit and call it bloodlust.
Oh, wait. That's apparently too difficult for a number of killers to actually manage as a part of the killer kit.
Oh look. another MFT defender saying its the same as bloodlust. who could have guessed.
Maybe, just maybe, bloodlust and MFT share ONE similarity of being haste related.
Bloodlust: 5% haste x3 over time. Resets on swing. Rests on pallet break. Resets on power use. Essentially only does jack on m1 killers. Exists solely for killers with no range or chase mobility to have any chance on unbalanced maps.
MFT: Injured=3% haste. No deactivation requirements. destroys the aforementioned M1 killers.
Wow, so equal.
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@I_CAME said:
People still pretending like Blight's only issue is his addons. I don't even think the guy with the 1500 win streak uses his best addons. How much longer are we going to let this ridiculous killer continue to exist in his current form?
momo is an obvious outlier here... can we stop using the arguable best blight in the world as an argument for blight needing basekit nerfs?
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@Lobos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561333#Comment_3561333
Lets see here just off the top of my head right now..
Bloodlust, Aura/screaming perks to find hidden survivors, nerfing healing and medkits, Anti loop killer powers, more teleporting killers that can travel across the entire map in a second.. Instant down killers.. Killers with built in slow down mechanics.. Reworking of maps to make them smaller with weaker pallets and tiles while also adding larger dead zones...
Update 6.1 in general with the sole goal of inflating kill rates.. Nerfing Prove Thyself, Iron Will, D.S, D.H, and BNP... Probably so much more that I'm forgetting right now too...
There has been a lot of Killer hand holding going on for a while and they still cry and come here to complain that survivors have it so good and every single team they face are just super SWFs so ALL survivors need to be nerfed into oblivion...
Bet money after they get what they want they will turn right around and say something like "Wow this game is just too easy now! Where are all the good survivors at!?! I'm bored, I think I'll just quit playing DbD for good this time!"
I'd argue most of that is less hand holding and more necessary changes. Hand holding implies that BHVR is giving killers changes to things that are already fine just to make killer easier which I feel isnt true for most of these. Bloodlust should lose t2 and t3 though those are def handholding...
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more survivors than killers ---> not that many oni players --> lots of feng players --> cash money
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Only MFT is in desperate need of changes. Adrenaline is 100% fair, but it shouldnt hold on hook for you. While I'd argue a lot more survivors crutch windows than use it purely for soloQ, its not broken or anything so it doesnt really need to be changed.
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@Lobos said:
No thanks.. Killers already have enough BHVR hand holding.
while I agree this post is definitely killer sided, how do the devs hold the killers hand?
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@Alice_pbg said:
"A creepy urban creature"
I'm sorry, what?
also... considering if this is the first wendigo design I saw with hooves... the power seems insanely weak.
no 15% repair speed. get that out of here.
I can see it now... the engineers toolbox+resilience+deja vu meta. permanent 30% repair boost to 3 gens while injured.
edit: use that with Always Alone, and guess what? permanent 40% speed boost on the 3gen. a permanent, almost commodius toolbox level speed boost.
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ah yes 2 hours after release and 2 weeks since she was revealed. not like there were minimal changes to her in the ptb period or anything.