apathyinc
apathyinc
About
- Username
- apathyinc
- Joined
- Visits
- 5,233
- Last Active
Comments
-
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812708#Comment_3812708
The devs don't need to explain why. Certain people will perceive just about any possible action in a game as "toxic", and the devs cannot cater to every singles person's feelings or else we can't have a game at all. If the devs had to explain to every single person why something is or isn't toxic/bannable/whatever, nobody at BHVR would have any time to do anything else.
How about you let the devs speak for themselves and if you aren't interested in what they have to say, move on to a different post.
-
I am also curious to hear how this is still acceptable from the devs. This is how you want people to experience your game?
-
@mysticalCat said:
We need this to be bannable. I wish dbd had the option like Fortnite to record previous matches(idk maybe you all do) but this tunneling and slugging has gotten out of hand. And no I’m not going to run anti tunnel build. Shouldn’t have to. The game is just not playable as a survivor. Tunneled out at 5 gens slugged at 5 gens, it’s so gross. You can definitely tell the kiddos are on this game. Also that’s another point to mention. You should probably add some verification to prove that the players are 18+. I loved this game but now, idk anymore. Literally there was a streamer (not mentioning them) that had a title on their stream as slugging in chaos mode. And literally bled everyone out. At 5 gens…. Dbd / behaviour / devs please make the QOL adjustments for us solo enjoyers. It’s just not fun anymore…..
That streamer needs to be banned. He has been smurfing his MMR and trolling players like that for a long time. He spent 6 hours bleeding out player after player in Lights Out. Devs don't do anything about it because they condone the behavior.
-
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791559#Comment_3791559
Once again, how do they confirm it wasn't for a reason? What if they were unlucky and just got a few teams forcing the bleedouts?
Before they could make it bannable or punishable they would have to make a replay system and set straight rules in which situations it's okay. It would also have the advantage that they can ban cheaters more effective even tho that's just a side-effect in this discussion.
Repeated behavior. Habitually bleeding out isn't the same as "oh one dude crawled away and I couldn't find him" or "this team doing some boil over bullshit so I have no moves to make"
-
@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791438#Comment_3791438
There are valid tactical reasons to four slug.
Slugging and intentionally bleeding out are 2 different things.
@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791438#Comment_3791438
And how would they confirm what happened?
I had a swf on top the shelfs of rpd before it got changed with boil over, obviously I couldn't hook them and my only option was bleeding them out and I did. Your logic implies that they can just report me for that and I get punished because I countered their perk normally.
The bleed out function is there for a reason not just to be toxic, there's no way for bhvr to confirm if it was used normally or in a toxic sense because they don't have some kind of replay feature as far as I know and even then it's really subjectiv if the situation really had to be solved that way. So ether they would have to have clear rules in which situations it's okay to bleed out OR they would have to evaluate every single case and it would probably not really sensefull.
If someone is habitually bleeding out survivors match after match they are refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
-
Bleeding out shouldn't fall under the "slugging" category, it's more refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
- Unsportsmanlike Conduct
- Use this option to report a player for purposefully losing the game, not participating in or disconnecting from the game early to avoid defeat. Examples: AFKing, rage quitting idling, and refusing to participate in normal gameplay
- Unsportsmanlike Conduct
-
I think an option to put yourself in a cage like the 2v8 has would be great. It would move you to an area away from someone who is BMing you and progress the game towards an end. It would also give a chance for an uncage if another survivor couldn't get to you because the killer was walking back and forth on top of you like a psychopath. What is the time limit for this option? I don't know, but not being able to do anything for 4 minutes while another player BMs you is horseshit and needs to be stopped.
-
A few years ago when Puppers was alive and healthy. Some of my favorite matches are when I'd randomly load into the lobby with him and Monto. Those guys knew how to have fun with this game.
-
@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747756#Comment_3747756
except, they have. Exit gate escape increases survivor MMR and decreases killer MMR. Hatch doesnt increase or decrease MMR for either. Anything else increases killer MMR and decreases survivor MMR, because technically speaking, its still a kill. DC's would count as the worst possible outcome for the player DC'ing.
Since you cant get adepts, tomes or dailies, it should logically not count as an MMR increase, but it does. It's why the highest ranking Nurses slug their kills to death as it creates the biggest pressure. If it didnt count for MMR, they should get lowered for every survivor that manages to escape.The devs have never specifically said that bleed outs are considered kills. They have said kills and escapes raise/lower MMR, and have defined kills as sacrifice, mori, times-up, head trap, etc but have never specifically said anything about bleed outs. Look at streamers who habitually bleed out survivors, they play at low MMR and it never appears to go up.
-
Bleed outs have never been confirmed by the devs to be considered kills or affect MMR. Everything in the game points towards them not being considered kills. Players can't get an adept, tome, or daily challenges done through bleed outs, and for every bleed out a player does, they get knocked down a rank from the Merciless Killer rating.
-
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729742#Comment_3729742
What a poor argument. Gens can be done in 2:30-3:00 minutes in best case scenario, with toolboxes, BNP and all stuffs. 4-5 minutes is average game against good survivors without slowdown. If you believe killer has ANY chances to have 12 hooks in the same time, even with tunneling, you probably play some different dbd.
There is nothing about "skill level", it's just simple math. Chases should be around 15 seconds long for this game be balanced around killer without slowdown. This is why survivors crying "nerf slowdown" and then do surprised faces, when all this pressure going into shorter chases with weaker maps and stronger killers ability.You realize in a balanced match the gens are supposed to get done, the gates open, and one or two survivors out?
-
@Nick said:
There is no reward for hooking people. People who are on death hook repair generators as fast as people who haven't been hooked. If you want to get rewarded for hooking survivors you have to bring Pain Resonance or Pop. They have extremely boring effects but you are forced to bring them because your regression at base is laughable (25% of survivor repair speed). You regress in 4 seconds what a single survivor can repair in 1 second....
These perks will get nerfed next patch, giving you even less of a reward for hooking (seperate) people. Killer players will be looking for alternatives.
I'm also looking for other perks which can help you level this regression/progression gap. But I found that Surge and Eruption block important center generators extremely fast, making them unreliable. Even when you're not actively "3-genning", when survivors are attacking the same generator over and over they will force you to block it eventually. Also Surge only works with basic attacks. And Call of Brine adds a whopping 3.75 seconds extra regression (that is if you get to regress the generator for 60 seconds minimum) , making it more of an info perk than actual regression.
I might start looking into slugging, with slugging perks. Maybe boring for survivors? But what alternative would you suggest to me
No reward for hooking people? The whole sacrifice score category awards points for hooking and sacrificing survivors. Just knocking them down doesn't reward many points at all.
-
If you keep winning matches with full slowdown perks, you are going to have a bad time when you try to go back to more "fun" builds. I find it's best to let MMR do its job based on the builds I like to run. If I'm losing, it probably means that I went to a skill level above where I should be with how I like to play.
-
If a bleedout happens, a killer's rating will drop from Merciless Killer to Relentless killer. The killer is the one who loses on a bleedout. It's always better to try for the hook than let a bleedout happen.
-
@Mandy said:
This is not something reportable in game. It falls within the same definition that t-bagging does, whilst not great sportsmanship it's not against the rules either.
Why is your team fine with having a player do this to another player for 4 minutes straight while the survivor player bleeds out?
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682424#Comment_3682424
That’s not true I bled out 4 survivors after they tried protecting an exploiting player and I pipped up. Granted they kept getting up with perks but I did still pip.
If you bled out 4 survivors then you got "The Entity Hungers" rating, which means a 0 kill game.
-
The game isn't counting bleed-outs as kills, so it's really a loss for the killer when it happens.
-
Maybe they DC'd because they are tired of being found right away with Lethal and saw spammed, then having to do 6 gens due to Pain Res, and and then be locked out of doing gens due to Grim Embrace. Just a theory.
-
@OneAutumnLeaf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662497#Comment_3662497
and yet most survivors need there perks to even survive, yet if a killer needs perks in order to even the odds he is bad....yeah thats great logic
The odds are even when nobody brings perks. Distortion is pretty much the only option to even the odds when they are stacked toward aura reading.
-
I can't believe how much fun I'm having with Trickster. Didn't expect that one.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642892#Comment_3642892
yes it does. it is counted as mori. It not rewarding killer for bloodpoint does not matter. I mean there should be scoring event for it. I suppose it is over-sight. As for emblem system... i mean emblem system punishes killer for like... survivors healing and I wholeheartedly believed the system was made for sole purpose of attempting to appease killer into playing a certain way and punish the survivor for gen-rushing/playing efficiently which similar to killer playing a certain way.
there is nothing wrong bleed out but the current iteration is often considered "toxic" play by the killer because it takes too long to die.
You are incorrect about this. If you kill a survivor your rating will change from The Entity Hungers to Brutal Killer to Relentless to Merciless for each one killed. Bleed one out and you don't get that rating. The game simply does not count them as kills, you don't get points, can't complete any adepts, do any daily or tome missions if you bleed the survivors out. There is no benefit to killers for doing this.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
bleed out death is intended win-condition for killer. it is just not very viable currently because it takes too long.
But it's not a win condition. A killer doesn't get any points for doing it and it doesn't count as a sacrifice/kill on the end game tally screens.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641533#Comment_3641533
Ok, so why the double standard for survivors who cause killers to DC?
What double standard? I didn't say only killer players play that way. Replacing a DC'd killer with a bot would be great, but would require adding a new feature to the game and isn't what the OP was talking about.
-
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641086#Comment_3641086
I mean obviously people only DC because they were forced to by toxic, cheating sweatlords, and never just because they're giant diaper babies
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641086#Comment_3641086
When the killer DCs, all survivors automatically escape.
So it's ok for survivors to cheat?
Survivors also DC for stupid reasons like:
- I got found by the killer first.
- The killer had tinkerer.
- My flashlight save didn't work.
- My head on play didn't work.
- I got hooked before I charged Deliverance/Renewal.
Players who repeatedly DC get a penalty. But if someone is intentionally doing something that is causing other players to DC they should be banned or at the very least have to play against bots instead of people.
-
No, some people live their life by cheating, trolling, and making the game miserable for other players. Sometimes this causes DCing to be the best option against them. Make them continue to play their games out against bots so real players don't have to deal with that horseshit.
-
There is a penalty, they don't get credit for kills if a survivor bleeds out. The players who bleed out survivors repeatedly should be banned for refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
-
It takes 100s of hours of gameplay to get to P100. Devoting that much time to receive a non-tangible reward shouldn't be encouraged.
-
With all the people running Windows of Opportunity now, blindness can be pretty useful. There is a noticeable difference when survivors can't remember where the pallets are.
-
Weird, I'd rather play a killer from this roster than the ones that came before Blight.
-
I'd like them to change it so the hooked survivor becomes the obsession when they are unhooked. Players using the perk while camping/tunneling is the problem.
-
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613602#Comment_3613602
Their complaint shouldn’t be with me, but with their distortion gamer teammates. Distortion is the sole cause of them being “tunneled”.
The killer player chooses to return to the hook.
The killer player chooses to not take a second to look for another survivor.
The killer player chooses to tunnel out the player that was hooked.
The killer player chooses to rely on aura reading perks to find survivors.
Distortion doesn't seem like the sole cause here. The root cause though seems to be the killer's inability to find survivors without using aura reading perks.
-
I go with what the scoreboard says. Bloodpoints are the only real reward for playing a match, all the other crap is in our heads.
-
Distortion is one of the few perks that brings the game back down to it's normal state when used. It would be about the same result as when the killer and survivor had no perks at all. Mindbreaker is one of the only other perks that sort of does this too. These type of perks simply take away perks the other side uses to gain an advantage. I don't see how they can be overpowered in any way.
-
It's probably a problem. It has been 7 years and they still don't show who queued as SWF in the post game lobby. Why hide it if it's not a problem?
-
The only problem with distortion is people are complaining about distortion. It doesn't provide an advantage, removes an advantage that isn't naturally available to the other side. Not knowing where everyone is at all times keeps the game interesting and challenging. Hiding is part of this game's fundamental gameplay and a lot of the aura reading perks make the game way too easy (on both sides).
-
20K??? Shhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt....I'm raking in a whopping 7K each time I'm tunneled out!
-
I'd rather be able to repair gens while on the ground after recovering. It would give the survivor something to do, give them some extra BPs, and add pressure for the killer to pick up without being unfair. Even repairing at a reduced rate would be better than nothing and more fair than being able to pick themself up for free.
-
I play in NA East too and usually play the chill build/playstyle way. I'd say about 25% of my games have people who BM and talk trash unprovoked. I think it comes down to the individual player and if they are a dickhead or not.
-
It would be great if players were kind to each other.
-
You can't get your XB1 progress on the Windows PC version, but you can still play your Xbox 1 account through the Xbox Cloud Gaming service on your PC if your console isn't working. It will have all your purchased content, but you might get some latency as it is streaming but it's usually not that bad.
-
@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539833#Comment_3539833
Because, as myself and others have pointed out numerous times at this point, but you refuse to acknowledge, all MMR cares about is whether survivors escape the trial or don't. How they don't escape (kill, sacrifice, death) doesn't matter one bit to MMR.
The tally screen is not the MMR system so stop making up excuses for linking the two. That's the main issue here, you're making assumptions that are not validated by the game's code.
MMR has been around for only a third of DbD's lifetime. The tally screen, the different deaths, and the killer match ratings were made over 7 years ago when ranking was based on how many bloodpoints you got in the match. MMR likely wasn't even an idea back then, because there would three additional ranking systems before its release still.
Bleed out deaths are not kills because that's not how you're meant to kill survivors for adepts. Slugging can arguably be easier than hooking, but that's not what the devs want you to do for adepts. The only reason the tally screen rankings were changed to be based on kills were the adept achievements. Not the MMR, not the emblems, not the grades.
We weren't talking about survivor MMR, this is about killer MMR which is based on kills. If you are talking for the survivor side, bleeding out appears to be the same as getting a hatch escape, a null result.
The tally screen was updated in January tie directly to kills, 4K = Merciless Killer, 3K = Ruthless, 1 or 2K Brutal, 0K = The Entity Hungers. If you bleed out all 4 survivors you get The Entity Hungers. The game does that, not me, I'm not making this up myself, the game changes those ratings they are tied directly to kills. The game is telling us that bleed outs are not kills, and when asked about this the developers don't answer.
On your last paragraph, just take out the words "for adepts" and you are on the right track.
-
@Alionis said:
Always fun when people run out of arguments and start attacking instead.
I did provide something most people would deem valuable: corrections to false information. If you don't consider that valuable then it's frankly not my problem.
The tally screen and MMR use different metrics to judge the killer and you getting angry about that won't change anything.
You didn't show anything as evidence to show this is false information. A few people have now added to the evidence and examples of what is going on, again pointing to the extreme likelihood that the wiki is not accurate. And nobody is getting angry here, even though you tried to provoke it with your sarcastic remark.
The tally screen isn't MMR, but there is a logical connection between the two.
Tally Screen Shows Kills
Kills = MMR up
Bleed outs don't count as kills on the tally screen
So what the hell are they? They don't give ANY other positive benefit to the killer like daily ritual gain, adept completion, blood points, emblems, killer rating, or tome challenges. So why would they logically give positive MMR?
-
Contrary to what some people might remember, the devs have never directly defined a bleed out as a kill in their communications. They said kills increased MMR, but people just dumped bleed outs in that category because the survivor dies. But even though the survivor dies, the game has never rewarded a killer for it.
By playing the current game and even watching old videos of it, a player can see that bleed outs have never given any blood points, emblems, contributed towards daily rituals, tome challenges (even the kill X by any means ones), or adept achievements. If the game has never rewarded a killer for bleed outs, what kind of logic says bleed outs will increase their MMR?
I've watched some players for the past few years who bleed out survivors every match. They never face any experienced survivors, just players who say "that was my first game" or have a trivial amount of hours playing the game. This is while the killer player has thousands of hours and nobody ever really escapes out the gates in their matches. If they were getting 4Ks all the time, they would go against more experienced players. but they don't. And the only thing that is different about these killer's game play is the bleed outs. It's pretty pathetic, but it's happening.
-
@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537924#Comment_3537924
Just an fyi: the wiki datamines its information. If you call the wiki wrong, you're also calling the game wrong, which doesn't work.
You're also conflating tally screen ratings and MMR. The two are independent systems. The devs only changed Merciless Killer and the likes to be based purely on the number of kills you got because of Adept achievements. Before that change, Merciless Killer required a double-pip. Unfortunately, the pip requirements increase with your current grade, meaning if you had a high grade, it was much more difficult to get a double-pip than when you had a low grade, unfairly affecting Adepts.
The tally screen with killer ratings changes based on kills. MMR is also based on kills. If the tally screen isn't registering a bleed out as a kill, it can logically be said that MMR isn't recognizing it either. I stand by saying that the wiki is wrong based on observable information, that can be easily repeated by any player, collected while playing the game.
Also from the wiki "Despite the vast majority of the information presented hereon being accurate and up-to-date, note that this wiki is open and can be freely edited by anyone, and that as such not every piece of content it entails will have been reviewed by Fandom Inc., Behaviour Interactive or an administrator. As a result, none of the aforementioned entities can guarantee that figures exhibited on this website are always valid and of sufficient quality, for all articles run the risk of being inadequately changed or vandalised. For all intents and purposes, instances of the occurrences mentioned above should be reported to a Wiki Guardian in case the user does not possess the means to deal with them themselves."
-
@Raccoon said:
Feel free to tag a developer/mod and ask them if a 4 man bleed out counts as a win for the killer and a loss for the survivors.
This topic may also help:
Just because you wish it wasn't so doesn't mean it isn't true.
@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537819#Comment_3537819
The game counts 4 bleed outs as a win for killer and raises their MMR accordingly.
The game counts any death as a loss for survivor and decreases their MMR.
If the killer bleeds out 4 survivors, what do YOU think happens to the killer's MMR? What do YOU think happens to the survivor's MMR if they die via bleed out?
The wiki is wrong about this and the devs won't answer the question even if you tag them directly. I have tried.
A while back, the devs changed the end game killer rating screen to only give Merciless Killer ratings when a 4K happens. If you bleed out one survivor you won't get Merciless Killer, the game does not count the bleed out as a kill. Bleed out all 4 and you get a Brutal Killer rating, or 0 kills.
If you look at some of the old videos the devs put out they talk about MMR and how it is based on the simplest formula, Kill or Escape = MMR up. If the game isn't counting bleed outs as kills, MMR isn't tallying them as kills either, and is more than likely counting them as losses.
There are some killers with thousands of hours in the game who bleed survivors out every match, and unsurprisingly they continuously go against survivors who are new to the game or only have a couple hundred hours max.
So back to the devs answering the question. They aren't going to answer the question because bleeding out survivors every match is an easy way to lower your MMR while making the other side miserable and they don't want it advertised.
-
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515999#Comment_3515999
dead by any means. it counts. if it says sacrifice, mori also don't count
Dead by any means challenges absolutely do not count bleed outs towards the progress.
-
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515438#Comment_3515438
so... what is the difference there?
3 bleed out vs 4 bleed out. it's still gonna take the full bleed out time regardless.
hooking one risks they getting a kobe or deliverance and getting the others back up. if soul charge or buckle up are in play it could lead to 4 survivors back up.
if I want all 4 dead, maybe for a challenge or something else, it's safer and a better play to just let them die.
Bleed outs aren't counted by the game as regular kills like sacrifices or moris are. So they don't progress daily rituals or tome challenges.
-
But the idea of winning isn't quite that cut and dry. Want to raise or lower your MMR? Then yes escape or kill is what you do for that. This will win you a number rating that nobody can see and that barely functions to do its purpose.
What else is there to determine a win? There is a scoreboard, usually in a game whoever has the highest score wins. But some people don't believe that with this game. So what is a win then? At this point it's what the player decides for themselves is a win. For me, the way I win now is to not to play the game at all.
-
If a killer is trying for kills, there is no reason to bleed someone out. You don't get any points for doing it, can't complete any daily or tome rituals by doing it, and it takes away from your emblems and killer rating in the post match. If you want kills, the game doesn't register bleed outs as a kill. Either pick them up and try and figure out a way to get them to a hook or go close the hatch and try to get them with EGC.
And since the game is currently working this way, it's in the survivor's interest to bleed out, surviving as long as possible and denying the kill.
-
@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429862#Comment_3429862
Merciless Killer and Emblems are separate from MMR. Devs have already confirmed that if a survivor dies from being hooked, being bled out, EGC, etc it counts as a win and the Killer's MMR goes up. Bleeding a survivor out has the same effect on MMR as hooking; bleeding a survivor out has a negative effect on Emblems but Emblems only affect your BP rewards.
As a side note, the words don't have an effect on MMR either. Only Kills by any method do.
The devs never said bleed outs were considered kills and game is not counting bleed outs as kills, in fact it's DEDUCTING them from the kill count. It can logically be seen that bleed outs are not considered kills.