albertoplus
albertoplus
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- albertoplus
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Problem not fixed, still happening.
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With Wesker on release i was literally passing through people with my power without grabbing them. There is a reason why the hitbox was increased.
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Some update about the second bug (the visual bug).
I think it also has something to do with that right now when you slam a survivor on a wall, you always end slamming him "inside" the wall instead of "into" the wall. If you see Wesker on PTB before he was released, not only the survivor being carried by him before the slam was a lot more smooth than now, but almost always when you got into a wall and slammed the survivor there, the slam was also smooth into the wall, but instead right now he always seems to slam the survivor "through" the wall.
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Those keep happening.
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I'm going to copy a comment i made on another similar topic that i think pretty much sums the problems DH had:
1.- Lunge removal.
Lunges, a killer mechanic, gets completely removed from the game when someone is wounded and it has DH. They are completely reactable and you will need to walk into the swing range and start the "mindgame". Some perks cand o that on really certain situations (Bamboozle only on that window IF the killer vaults it and then you know it has it, Deadlock only for 30 seconds and you still can repair other gens, etc). I think people should be aware that removing a mechanic from the game is not healthy at all cough cough Eruption cough.
2.- Passive deterrence.
Remember old ruin? Old NoeD? Times where you need to assume the killer/survivor has a certain perk and you need to act like they had it, just in case.
By DH doing that it means you are, again, removing your lunge until you are certain the survivor doesnt have it, wasting time going into their butts, wasting more time trying to bait it, then swinging. And they even dont have it, but you need to play like they have. At the meanwhile, people are repairing gens while you are losing all this time.
3.- Pallet situation.
I already did talk on this situation about lunging in pallets. Do i lunge? Survivor reacts and DH. Do i just not lunge because of DH? Survivor uses pallet. Win-win situation for survivor, and these cases happen a lot through every game.
Even if we count those cases where killer is not in lunge range but on swing range, we get again to a point where the window where you can hit the survivor after DH and before he throws the pallet is extremely tiny. Doable, but difficult. But the problem is the first case, not this one.
4.- Counterplay to something being "not do anything at all" is not healthy
So, the counterplay to DH is usally, reach the survivor butt and then............do nothing. Literally. Wait until they DH, at the meanwhile, do absolutely nothing. Interactive as hell.
I suppose that when old Eruption did make survivors not being able to do anything for 25 seconds they were having the best time of their lives. Anyways, you could counter old Eruption by doing nothing until it pops, then you didnt got the incap effect. But it wasn't funny, i suppose. And i get it wasnt funny, the same way is not funny on DH case.
5.- Time lost while not doing anything and losing your lunge is a LOT more than people give credit for
People ignore this, but lunging has always been an integral part on how killers down survivors. By losing that, that means that you need to waste some seconds (like 4 seconds or so) by running from the initial lunge distance into the survivor's back. And thats not all, you now need to wait another 2-4 seconds trying to bait DH. That could be like 6-8 seconds that you already lost trying to catch a survivor that otherwise you could have downed already.
Now multiply that for every time the survivor can be on wounded state, 3 times at minium. 18 seconds. Now for every survivor that has DH (on my games are usually 3 DH at minimum). That can be 54 seconds easily (things can change, you can wait a little less or a little more, survivor can go down or successfully hit DH so they win the chase and you need to count another new DH, etc), but it should be a pretty good estimation. 54 seconds of free gen time.
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"Prestige leves doesnt mean anything".
To reach lv 100 prestige you usually need between 1.5k - 2k hours just by an average time game and getting just decent bloodpoints. And thats assuming you only did put all your levels into that one character, so it's usually even more.
I am fine with hiding the prestige level. Just give me something like a slider that sets the maximum prestige level i want to play against as killer/survivor (it cannot be less than mine, and it does count the maximum prestige level between all your survivors and all your killers, so you dont switch to a low level survivor to stomp newbies). Then yeah, im fine if you hide it.
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Those issues still going on.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383422#Comment_3383422
Simple answer is either down them before they reach pallet or work around it. DH is only really an issue if you hold W and m1 after survivors with no other tactics.
The majority of killers have a way to bypass DH or pallet looping. Antiloop, inflicting exhaustion, exposed from full health, deep wounds. Every killer has something in their basekit/addons to counter pallets and/or dead hard.
And sometimes it's simply recognising when it's a good idea to simply swing into the deadhard, i had a surv trying to loop me at shack. I was running bamboozle, I sealed off the vault and they made an obvious DH play at the pallet, i thought "this'll be funny" swung in, they got their 3rd state, greeded the pallet and whipped around the outside of the door and i followed them round, to find them running into the blocked vault window. Wham bam thankyou mam. Hooked them in shack basement.
If people get repeatedly punished by DH AND lose games because of it, then it is a skill issue. There is so much counterplay not just with plays midchase but straight up mechanical counters. But if people want to play killers with zero perks and not utilise their powers? Ok have fun getting 3 hits for every down I guess? 🤷♂️
That said I don't mind the DH nerf, tbh it makes little difference to me, I never trigger it as surv more than once or twice a match except against baby killers, and as killer I counterplay it as a matter of course.
Simple answer is either down them before they reach pallet or work around it. DH is only really an issue if you hold W and m1 after survivors with no other tactics.
That would be like saying "Man old Eruption was fine, simple answer is to repair the gen before the killer gets value from Eruption."
The majority of killers have a way to bypass DH or pallet looping. Antiloop, inflicting exhaustion, exposed from full health, deep wounds. Every killer has something in their basekit/addons to counter pallets and/or dead hard.
Maybe some killers have, some others dont (saying the "majority" is a bit of a stretch anyways). But "just dont use X killer" should never be a counterargument.
And sometimes it's simply recognising when it's a good idea to simply swing into the deadhard, i had a surv trying to loop me at shack. I was running bamboozle, I sealed off the vault and they made an obvious DH play at the pallet, i thought "this'll be funny" swung in, they got their 3rd state, greeded the pallet and whipped around the outside of the door and i followed them round, to find them running into the blocked vault window. Wham bam thankyou mam. Hooked them in shack basement.
That was a hard survivor missplay that had nothing to do with DH. Yes he greeded the pallet after DH but he could have done the same without it. It was his decision to stay instead of run into another loop. Writing a bad survivor decision doesn't seem to be the best idea..
If people get repeatedly punished by DH AND lose games because of it, then it is a skill issue. There is so much counterplay not just with plays midchase but straight up mechanical counters. But if people want to play killers with zero perks and not utilise their powers? Ok have fun getting 3 hits for every down I guess? 🤷♂️
Strawman right here. So "people having a hard time with DH" means that "people just want to play without perks and without their powers"?
No doubt that using DH sometimes doesn't give you anything if you "get baited" or something, i will give you that. Is not always a "i press a button and i get a free escape". But still, it has many problems:
1.- Lunge removal.
Lunges, a killer mechanic, gets completely removed from the game when someone is wounded and it has DH. They are completely reactable and you will need to walk into the swing range and start the "mindgame". Some perks cand o that on really certain situations (Bamboozle only on that window IF the killer vaults it and then you know it has it, Deadlock only for 30 seconds and you still can repair other gens, etc). I think people should be aware that removing a mechanic from the game is not healthy at all cough cough Eruption cough.
2.- Passive deterrence.
Remember old ruin? Old NoeD? Times where you need to assume the killer/survivor has a certain perk and you need to act like they had it, just in case.
By DH doing that it means you are, again, removing your lunge until you are certain the survivor doesnt have it, wasting time going into their butts, wasting more time trying to bait it, then swinging. And they even dont have it, but you need to play like they have. At the meanwhile, people are repairing gens while you are losing all this time.
3.- Pallet situation.
I already did talk on this situation about lunging in pallets. Do i lunge? Survivor reacts and DH. Do i just not lunge because of DH? Survivor uses pallet. Win-win situation for survivor, and these cases happen a lot through every game.
Even if we count those cases where killer is not in lunge range but on swing range, we get again to a point where the window where you can hit the survivor after DH and before he throws the pallet is extremely tiny. Doable, but difficult. But the problem is the first case, not this one.
4.- Counterplay to something being "not do anything at all" is not healthy
So, the counterplay to DH is usally, reach the survivor butt and then............do nothing. Literally. Wait until they DH, at the meanwhile, do absolutely nothing. Interactive as hell.
I suppose that when old Eruption did make survivors not being able to do anything for 25 seconds they were having the best time of their lives. Anyways, you could counter old Eruption by doing nothing until it pops, then you didnt got the incap effect. But it wasn't funny, i suppose. And i get it wasnt funny, the same way is not funny on DH case.
5.- Time lost while not doing anything and losing your lunge is a LOT more than people give credit for
People ignore this, but lunging has always been an integral part on how killers down survivors. By losing that, that means that you need to waste some seconds (like 4 seconds or so) by running from the initial lunge distance into the survivor's back. And thats not all, you now need to wait another 2-4 seconds trying to bait DH. That could be like 6-8 seconds that you already lost trying to catch a survivor that otherwise you could have downed already.
Now multiply that for every time the survivor can be on wounded state, 3 times at minium. 18 seconds. Now for every survivor that has DH (on my games are usually 3 DH at minimum). That can be 54 seconds easily (things can change, you can wait a little less or a little more, survivor can go down or successfully hit DH so they win the chase and you need to count another new DH, etc), but it should be a pretty good estimation. 54 seconds of free gen time.
I could keep going but this is a little wall of text so i think i will stop here. No matter if DH is strong or not (tip: it is), but the thing is that its not healthy for the game at all.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383388#Comment_3383388
Ah yes. One specific situation. In every other situation it's easily counterable. I love watching survs try it on the way to a vault. People always moan about DH on pallets but that is the only time the perk is reliable. The rest of the time killer can bait it very easily.
Problem is that its not "one specific situation". That could be valid if it was a rare situation or something. But it's pretty common on a lot of chases (i could say 80% of chases) to the survivor to reach a pallet while you are in lunge distance. If no DH was involved, on those cases you could get a hit as a killer and if you are lucky also a pallet down. With DH this is a lose-lose situation for the killer.
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@SilentShepherd said:
Dead Hard is so tough to actually pull off. It is not really possible to react to a Killer swing and activate DH. All survivors have to predict a killer swing, and blindly guess. This means that Killers can easily bait it.
The fact that Killers have been whining about DH shows how entitled Killers are. It's so easy to bait and make them fail.
Sure, let me know how can i make them fail when they reach a pallet and they are in lunge distance.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383284#Comment_3383284
Pain Resonance, Overcharge and Call of Brine should be one time use as well
What
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382992#Comment_3382992
Time your lunge to hit at the end of the DH
Or lunge while looking up, so they end up wasting the DH and you end up blocking the pallet prompt.
Or follow them through the DH without lunging, and just m1 them and get the pallet out of the way at the same time.
Why should the survivor DH actually BEFORE killer lunge? That doesn't make any sense.
Survivor reaches a pallet while he is at killer's lunging distance. Killer doesn't lunge? Survivor doesn't need to DH, just drop the pallet. Chase extended successfully. Killer does lunge? Survivor reacts to the lunge and uses DH. Chase extended successfully.
And no, lets not bring the argument that sometimes i'm seeing. "Reacting lunges is actually hard!!!", cmon, everytime i lunge on anywhere on the map, i eat a DH. Maybe i'm against the survivors with the most superhuman possible reaction time? Nah, it's easy to react to lunge.
Also, please, let's not bring again the "doesn't work 70% of the time!!!". For a perk to almost never work, still a meta perk for 6 damn years.
You know what would happen if that situation was real, right? Let's make that when you jump over a window, there is a 70% chance Lithe doesnt even work. When the last gen is repaired, there is a 70% change Adrenaline doesn't even work.
The list can go on. Do you know what would happen right? Ignoring the fact that those perks could maybe get kill switched, NO ONE would actually even use them. Why would anyone use them then? "Fun" perk or not, it wouldnt even work so no need to waste a perk slot with that.
The "it doesnt even work most of the time" has becoming lately a meme already, and it's pretty clear why.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376579#Comment_3376579
Right. So everyone complaining about SM and knight are making things up... And all the games taking 30+mins are not happening.
I don't need to know anything more to be 100% certain you don't play survivor (and I am not talking about maining one side - I am talking about not playing the other side at all).
Answered on the other topic and the answer would have been the same here, so, moving on!
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376587#Comment_3376587
So you wait there for first hit to be able to heal for long? Briliant. You just reduced your efficiency even more and allowed the killer to regress your meager progress you've done so far.
Please try to play survivor at least a little bit. You would see the issue immediately.
D-did you just reply the same non-sense on both topics on me? I kinda feel honored...
And i talk about the "you dont play survivor a little bit". Like, i didn't know you have an actual control on my survivor hours.
Im not a 4k or 5k hour monster like some people here are, i have 2k hours on DbD and of course i don't know at 100% how much are killer hours and how much are survivor hours. I would say about 800~ hours are survivor, i think i play a little bit more of a killer.
But it's fine for me. If you have to throw the "you dont play X at all!!!!" argument, that pretty much sums everything. Lets agree to disagree on this topic and move on.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375993#Comment_3375993
You assume that survivors can teleport to/from gen. If gens are close (think saloon) - killer has MUCH shorter walking distance then survivors (if they don't want to give him hit in literal 2s). So it means survivors need to sometimes leave the gen even if killer is not going directly to their generator. If they don't, it's ~30+s for single survivor healing (5s going to boon, 21s heal, 5s going back and this is still like super optimistic scenario for boons - if you place boon closer, killer can stomp it and distract ppl from doing it resulting in even much longer wasted time. If you don't have CoH, wasted time will be even much longer).
So overall the problem is the combination of strong perks, very close 3gens (especially on some maps) and a lot of killer powers (mobility or slowdown).
But if the problem is that the killer is never going to commit to a chase (which everyone seems to agree here), you dont need to leave the gen if the killer does not go directly into the generator, you can wait a bit, as you know that at the moment he kicks the gen he is not going to chase you.
Also, again if he is not going to commit, why lose time healing? Isnt better to just keep repairing the gens? Healing is not going to help you if the killer is not going to chase you anyways.
I get that 3 gens can be frustrating on certain specific scenarios, but people seems to say that it has zero counters and on my experience, is not so "uncounterable" as people make it to be, as long as people just keep trying to repair the gens and mantaining some distance when killer comes to a gen, without leaving it far if the killer does not chase so they can be back to the gen quickly.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376455#Comment_3376455
No you can't. She is guarding her 3gen and she chased away ppl long enough for all the pallets that are close by to run out. Meaning if you stay injured/exposed on the gen, it will be very easy for her to get downs (said in a different way - to commit for 5s to get down).
As long as you are aware of terror radius and you see her coming from a long distance and leave the gen at that moment (without losing her on the camera, so at the moment she kicks the gen, if she choses to go back into another gen, you quickly go back into this one) that can be easily 20-25 seconds of minimum chase time, not 5. Thats only counting the time she needs to reach you running, not the looping after that.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373105#Comment_3373105
With sloppy butcher, healing takes longer with the COH, and that time that is being taken to heal allows the gen to regress
Honestly, I would've thought by now that everyone would agree that its basically impossible
Honestly, do you even need to heal or get rid of the exposed effect?
The problem seems to that the killer never commits to a chase, right?
Can't you just ignore the wounded state/exposed effect and just keep repairing?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375434#Comment_3375434
-"i don't really get the "tunnel at 5 gens best strat" thing? You camp and tunnel first survivor? Okay, the other survivors just slap gens."
And what happens if I down your friend inside my 3 gen and they are on the hook in the middle of it. You blast 3 gens that I don't care about and i get to kill your friend. You dont get to touch the 3 gens that matter to end the game. You don't get to rescue your friend. That means the situation is worse when I hook or slug the next person and do the same thing all over again.
But that's about the "3 gen" scenario right? I was answering to the one who was saying "tunnel at 5 gens".
But anyways, i also have some doubts about the "3 gen" scenario. What makes it difficult to break? I know Knight and SM are the ones actually really good at mantaining 3 gens, but i see that people also bash CoB and Overcharge, but in reallity what makes them so strong in 3 gen scenario?
You can have 3 people repairing, one on each gen (im talking with 3 survivors, because lets be honest, with 2 survivors even if its not a 3 gen its really difficult to escape), what can the killer do on those situation?
Goes to a gen (other 2 are being repaired), the survivor leaves the gen, the killer kicks it, then the killer has two options: chase the survivor or leave and go into another gen.
If he chases, the other two are being repaired.
If he leaves to another gen, the survivor just goes back to the gen and keeps repairing. It would have not reverted much, the baseline 2.5% and maybe a little more for 1 or 2 seconds with CoB + OC combo, then repeat again.
On which non Knight and SM cases are difficult to break the 3 gen?
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To reach a P100 at the minimun you usually need between 1.5k hours at best to 2.5k hours at worst. So i don't really get the "P100 doesn't mean skill" theme...just by that time you should already have a very, very solid skill. And i mean by putting every single bloodpoint you gain on that survivor. If you level up other characters, then you need more play time.
Yes i know there are some 4k or 5k hours monsters here, but you get the idea.
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@DrFrozen said:
Awful meta...
TUNNELING ISSUE:
Tunneling has become really good strategy to win every single game. You had been hanged finally had got unhooked and... hooked again until you are dead. This makes game unfun for survivors and playing without one of them when 3 gens are left is insanely difficult...
SLOWDOWN ISSUE:
Right now most killers are running 4 slowdown perks such as CoB, Surge, etc. Playing against Eruption before the nerf was so frustrating so thanks to the God BHVR has decided to nerf it but still slowdown perks are top tier and taking 4 make survivors bored to death...
TAKING GAME HOSTAGE ISSUE:
No need to talk about this... still not fixed
SO WHY DO KILLERS TUNNEL ?
It is so hard to keep up with 4 survivors cause currently they can be a little too efficient. Even taking 4 medkits, each granting 2 heals, makes the game totally survivor sided. Each team takes CoH which additionaly grants infinite medkit. It is true that DH is most picked perk in the whole entire game - stats say it has over 30% pick rate but at high level you can see 2+ ( it can considerably increase time it takes to catch survivor or even forces you to leave them when they get to a really strong loop ). It seems like tunneling is the best option to get rid of 1 survivor and as a result it allows you to keep other 3 under control.
WHY DO KILLERS TAKE SO MUCH SLOWDOWN ?
Every single time I try to do some fun build taking meme perks like Furitive, game ends like in about 3 or 4 minutes cause survivors usually take some rushing perks like prove thyself or toolboxes with Brand New Parts. Survivors are not willing to be tunneled so they want to do gens as quick as possible. Additionaly Hex totems are a lot weaker and nerfing NOED as the consequence made survivors meh about doing bones.
BOTH SIDES ARE UNHAPPY
Killers should be encouraged to run other perks than slowdown so maybe BHVR should rework useless perks granting them brand new effects. Survivors should be less efficient with healing so killers would be happy by spreading real pressure with hits. Maybe this will help killers so they can take other perks and adjust their playstyle.
One survivor got killed because he got tunneled out of the game and 3 gens still left? What were the other survivors doing?
On my case, i start the game with 4 gens when i catch the first survivor, if the chase was fast and smooth. If he got to a strong loop i can start the game with 3 gens already (and most of people seems to agree that losing 1 or even 2 gens on first chase is "normal").
So, i don't really get the "tunnel at 5 gens best strat" thing? You camp and tunnel first survivor? Okay, the other survivors just slap gens. Game ends with 1k and 3 escapes.
Is that the "best" strat?
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Still happening
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At 1m there is totally time to react. A basic lunge is reactable by anyone watching at the killer. And losing that "win-win" situation makes you potentially lose the chase already, wasting all the time you spent or to add another 30-40 seconds to a chase. And that win-win (for the survivor) situation is created many times per game, times that if there wasn't a DH, that would have been a hit to the killer.
Want to also add something related to this: DH competely removes the killer's lunge from the game once the survivor is wounded. Literally. As the killer, if the survivor is injured, you will never ever be able to lunge, unless you start the lunge somewhat on a wall that is taller than you and the survivor doesn't see you.
DH is not only the strongest survivor perk in the game (hell i would even say is the strongest perk in the game counting both killer and survivor perks), it's also extremely unfun that the only counter (on those that are not win-win situations in pallets) is to just....."do nothing for X seconds and hope the survivor uses it".
Don't really want to bring Eruption again on these kind of discussion, but do you know what perk was nerfed because it made the survivors spend too much time "doing nothing"? Yes you did guess it.
As a killer i don't find it funny to lose my lunge entirely, have to walk until i am sniffing the surv ass and spend here some seconds doing absolutely nothing at all because "hey he maybe has dead hard, and if he uses it, gg chase lost".
DH has everything. Is strong as hell, and is unfun as hell for the other side. Literally it makes the killer stay still for some seconds and thats not a healthy counter for a perk.
Finally, i think people really really underestimate those extra seconds every survivor is buying thanks to a "passive" Dead Hard (i say "passive" because even if you don't have it, you MUST think everyone has it, at least at first). If you add some seconds after some seconds after some seconds many times, you can easily have games where the killer did nothing for like 40-50 seconds. Literally 40-50 seconds of free gen time. Wasn't Eruption nerfed for that exact same reason but at the other way?
I did find Eruption funny and rewarding. First i needed to kick gens, losing time in the process, then to actually win a chase before that gen was completed. For me, it was funny as hell to see the survivors scream and knowing they will not be able to do anything for 25 seconds, only after catching that survivor, which felt really rewarding. But hey, i knew that was not normal and needed to be nerfed hard, because, who has fun by doing nothing in a game?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364196#Comment_3364196
Might I refer you back to my 2nd paragraph please? I just described exactly this situation. But if my explanation is lacking, maybe you would understand it better from Scott:
I did see that video when it was released, and both that Scott case and your second paragraph explains what to do if the survivor uses DH and you are in "swing" range. Doesn't explain the win-win situation if the killer is in "lunge" range.
You are like 1 meter away from the survivor, while the survivor reaches de pallet. What do you do?
In your explanation, survivor used DH and then you swing, but that's not my situation at all. On my situation, the survivor does not need to Dead Hard because you are still not in melee range, you are at lunge distance.
Again, without having DH into ecuation, you could just lunge to close the 1 meter distance and hit the survivor before he has a chance to throw the pallet.
With DH you are ######### as the killer. If you lunge, the survivor reacts and DH. If you don't lunge, you are still not in melee range, so the survivor just uses the pallet and wins chase.
If on that situation the survivor uses DH before you doing anything, that survivor is not good, sorry.
Also, sorry, Scott is prob a ver good player but biased as hell. He says that DH is used because of the "fun" factor. No, sorry, i have been seeing plenty of "for fun" builds that have underused perks but funny as hell, and i can find maybe 1 person per 3-4 matches using a "for fun" build. DH is not meta for 6 years and the most used survivor perks because "it's fun". It is because is strong as hell.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363606#Comment_3363606
And exactly this is not true at all.
You can guess they will use DH instead of dropping pallet and you can time it to that short time when DH animation ends, but pallet is not thrown. This favors survivors, but I have seen plenty killers (me included) get the timing right.
Windows are even easier - if you guess he'll vault, you just do full distance lounge (once space is pressed he can't change it to E and he can't wait, because it would be midvault). If you guess he would use E, you just don't lounge at that window - and watch akward survivor's animation.
If you win this guess, you get hit. If you loose it, survivor gets away.
Problem lies when you are in lunge range when they are reaching the pallet.
Do you lunge? Eat Dead Hard. Do you now lunge because of Dead Hard? Eat the pallet or just continue the loop. On a non-dead hard situation, the killer can lunge and get the hit.
Win-win situation for the survivor.
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@Technature said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359217#Comment_3359217
lol no?
The only counter to eruption is SWF comms. Deadhard can be countered by waiting it out, using a perk/add-on/killer ability that inflicts Deep Wound, or forcing exhaustion in some way. It also can't be used with other exhaustion perks, so if you see one be used you can deep lunge away.
Eruption can be countered by waiting it out. Stop repairing until the person that is being chased is downed, the gen pops and you can keep repairing it. Hell with the new HUD you can even know when the non-obsession is being chased.
But let's be honest, no one is going to do that because it is "not fun" to do nothing until eruption pops, and that's actually pretty understandable.
And the exact same thing can be said about DH.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358930#Comment_3358930
they overnerfed Freddy. The Slowdown-Addons was everythng what they had to remove (same like Alchemist Ring on Blight for example). Instead, they added a Immunity to falling asleep, a Snare-Token-Reduction, a Pallet-Token-Reduction, a Slowdown to 4,0m/s while placing a snare to him and on top of it they installed a big joke of Addons, which grants you better hearing... WOW. Thats something for Spirit, but Freddy?
Keep in mind that i'm not talking about the "Forever Freddy" build, i'm talking about when survivors didn't see him unless they were sleeping.
Yeah those addons are another story but people were saying that Freddy was annoying as hell and he needed a rework back then.
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If i'm honest, I don't really get why do people nowadays say those things about Billy or Freddy..
I have been reading thisn forum for many years, and i remember that long ago this was flooded with "please nerf Billy he is broken" and "please change Freddy he is so annoying", and whey they finally did it, they are now considered a "meme"?
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Edit: Some forum problem, first post didnt appear...
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@Tostapane said:
Op has a point: Eruption was changed for it's nature of "wait it out" and being obnoxious to have aganist, they should have changed dead hard too for those instances... Personally speaking i'm tired of seeing that cursed perk everywhere, i just want see it dead (pun intended) once and for all.
This, literally.
You remind me of a thread long ago (when DS still didn't even have the Conspicuous Actions and was one of the most used survivor perks) where there was some perk discussion and a dev said "We are nerfing Pop because of the long time it is active and it can be used" (just before the active time was reduced from 60 to 45 seconds), then someone asnwered to that dev comment by saying "...like Decisive Strike?". The devs remained silent. It took almost 2 years to nerf DS.
What i meant is that funnily enough, this can be applied to this topic as well. You sure can wait until DH is used. You sure can wait until Eruption pops so you don't get the incap effect. But only one of them got gutted after being meta for 8-9 months (while the other one has been meta for like 6 years or something and still the best survivor perk in the game for the same time).
No one likes to "wait without doing anything at all" to counter any perk. No one likes to wait until the survivor uses Dead Hard. No one likes to wait until eruption pops. That's not a healthy design in both cases.
Eruption deserved a nerf. DH deserves a nerf too.
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@Mooks said:
It’s a shame cross-license legendary can’t be a thing.
Mr. X could have been a cool skin for Myers I think
Blight has a William Birkin skin tho?
Edit: Nevermind i understood it now. Myers is license while Blight it is not. Bad reading. 😅
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341295#Comment_3341295
It's also more than 3-5 seconds on certain M2 killers, because the survivor can dead hard their killer powers on reaction, so those killers no longer get to save lots of time with their powers.
That's another story i just forgot! True, there are some killers with M2 powers that are really easy to E in reaction and they are left with high cooldowns.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340713#Comment_3340713
You failed at your own comparison. On one side you talk about a successful counter, on the other about a full on hit by said ability. "This apple here is bright red, while this orange here is just a pale orange. How sad."
Waiting out a DH in theory only takes abot 5s, letting go of a gen at the right moment also adds a max of 5s. Failing on countering Eruption takes you out of the game for 25s, failing at using DH takes you out of the game for about an equal amount and puts you on the hook (even though get some thrilling wriggle gameplay options). Failing to anticipate DH as he killer adds easily 25s to a chase in the 7frames prior to winning it, which is probably more frustrating then having to find a Bush to hide in for 25s.
I was going to answer him but i think you did it a lot better. Thanks!
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340703#Comment_3340703
I refuse to believe you genuinely think waiting out Dead Hard and waiting out Eruption are remotely the same thing.
Let's be honest here. Wiating is NOT fun for anyone. Waiting for Dead Hard until the survivor uses it is not fun. Waiting for Eruption to go off (and i mean, before the survivor is put down, so you don't get the incapacitated effect) is not fun.
You don't know when the other survivor is going to be down (unless you are in comms or see him directly). You don't know when the other survivor is going to E you. Funny is, the base is the same for both perks.
Eruption needs a solid nerf (and it got it, it left it in the trash can tho, but that's another story) and so DH. "Waiting while doing nothing" should never be the counterplay to a perk.
The thing that you are probably thinking: "I cannot juist wait until a surv is put down because what if the survivor just takes like 60 seconds to be put down!? Should i do nothing for 60 seconds?!"
Do you think kilers like to wait 3-5 seconds on every survivor on every wounded health state? In total time that can be a solid 50-60 seconds of "doing nothing", and that's counting the killer did successfully hooked every survivor on every first chase. Not counting the times where the killer has to stop chasing after getting E'd becasue the chase was getting so long, the times where survivors dont get hooked and just heal, etc.
Many factors can be said for both perks, but both of them share the same basics: "They get countered by doing nothing until they pop off. And that's not fun for anyone."
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Killers: Dead Hard is annoying to deal with
Survs: Just do nothing and wait for it
Killers: Ok
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Survs: Eruption is annoying to deal with
Killers: Just do nothing and wait for it
Survs: Wait that's illegal
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Still happening.
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Bug still happening.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329934#Comment_3329934
Pain res before 6.1 was used a lot and after it it's being used even more. DH was used a lot and after the patch it's being used much less (but still a lot). Ruin and DS were both nerfed to oblivion and are no longer being played that much. Do not cherry-pick. Take full meta on both sides
I suppose we can agree to disagree then.-I see pain res being used much less now and DH still being used the same as before. I can argue that DH is maybe used a 5% less than before, but not more.
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Entiendo que este post es una sátira o simplemente creado debido a la frustración.
El caballero es considerado actualmente uno de los peores asesinos del juego, posiblemente top 5 de los peores. No tendría demasiado sentido nerfearlo.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329922#Comment_3329922
To elaborate, Billy with his add-ons was seen as an issue. He's a bit similar to Blight in that regard.
However, *basekit* Billy was seen as one of the best designed killers. And while his add-ons were an issue, it was from the combinations available rather than the add-ons by themselves. Fact was, Billy did need at least some add-ons to keep up with better survivors.
Come his rework and he was NUKED to oblivion. Overheat was added; in its current iteration its notmuch of a limitation to veterans but is extremely cumbersome when you're learning Billy, making him extremely unpleasant to play. This angered almost everyone because basekit Billy was seen as perfectly fine. His add-ons went from amazing with problematic combinations to terrible. He has a few good ones, but they're a shadow of their former selves.
He went from one of the most common and strongest killers to basically being dead. To add insult to injury, Spirit and Nurse, both killers with stronger add-ons AND basekit, were comparatively given a slap on the wrists.
Yeah i can see that nerfing Billy while Blight or Nurse were being kept almost the same doesn't really make much sense..
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@FellowKillerMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329152#Comment_3329152
Agreed. Would it be too much to prevent interactions for 2 seconds after using dead hard?
I dont know if that would be enough. Right now, even if the survivor uses Dead Hard and then throws the pallet, you have a brief moment where you can actually hit him, making him even waste the pallet.
To be trully balanced on that moment, DH should be just deactivated upon reaching a pallet (and activated again when you leave it). You already have your tool for extending the chase right here, where you can play the minigame and lose or win. If you win the minigame, you extend the chase by using the pallet correctly. If the killer wins. he hits you.
Even if people dont want to admit, the "meta swap" that BHVR wanted to do with that mid chapter actually worked well for killers but didnt work for survivors. Killers were mostly Ruin + Undying. Ruin got giga nerfed and now it's never seen, and most of the time it was the best perk to combine with Undying because it was having a great effect since the game started. Now that Ruin got nerfed, Undying is not being used as much as before.
But survivors were mostly Dead Hard + Decisive Strike. DS got also greatly nerfed and now is not being seen that much, but even with the DH change, DH is still being used on 90% of survivors, sometimes even seeing 4 Dead Hards on the game.
So at the end of the day, the new killer meta can be more or less opressing than the one before with Eruption, but at least the meta changed from "passive regress" to "kick gens", and it's still a change. But survivors keep using Dead Hard on almost every game so the meta swap for them was a failure.
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@Rogue11 said:
Might be a hot take but I consider Wesker the standard for a well balanced, fun but fair killer, like Billy before he was nerfed. Blight on the other hand...
I never really get why people have this opinion of Billy, about that now he is "overnerfed" or a "meme killer"... I remember that before the rework, this forum was flooded of "pls nerf Billy already, he is too strong/opressive" threads.
And now that they indeed finally nerf him, people are like "why did you nerf Billy? he was fine before".
I just find it strange.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329743#Comment_3329743
Is it? I figured it was an intended change. I quite like it tbh. Always bugged me that the minions would just phase through a goddamn pallet/vault. And feels like they have a higher move speed now to compensate. And having them double back means knight can pincer more effectively
Knight's guards dont move at higher speed, their speed is the same as before the patch.
They already have an extremely hard time getting into someone, so having them to go around pallets instead of phasing through them makes things even worse...
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Oh, then my bad completely. It should not happen always then. I though so because all the times i have just chased a survivor with a guard and he did drop a pallet (or jumped through it), the guard did go around the pallet. I suppose i was just unlucky then..
Still annoying tho, guards already have a very difficult time getting into a target, so having them going around pallets...
Also, it seems it still is after this new patch? Because on all my games before i never noticed it.
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Didn't BHVR nerf it because they wanted to "shake" the meta?
Still seeing 3-4 DHs on every game. They did success with DS but not with DH.
It needs further nerfs. 1 second of making you unable to use pallets after using it would be fine.
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Is there any reason why the infection is giving the survivor speed boost even at Lv 3?
Before that, at the very least you are getting something in return by leveling up your power. Getting the option to break pallets/walls faster and the +1m extra range is nice.
But what are you obtaining at level 3 in return of giving the speed burst? Nothing at all. You are giving the survivors a free speed burst "because reasons".
At lv 3 the tentacle should injure the survivor even if not infected.
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@fake said:
Let's say you choose from several methods that can be done for MYC knight.
1. knight's kill switch
Certainly a kill switch of a knight with numerous other bugs would solve the problem, but from a business standpoint it is difficult to kill switch a just-launched killer.
2. kill switch for MYC
Yes, it is certainly effective, but there is no need to make anyone but him unusable when he is not buggy except for KNIGHT!
3. change of shrines
Considering that shrines change every week, I don't think the developers will spend the effort to change them for a few more days.
My choice is 4. report players who abuse MYC knight.
You can also forget your 4th choice. A dev said many days ago that Knights using MyC on that way is not reportable.
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@bm33 said:
The tweet is just worded poorly. Hotfix 1 hasn't gone out yet, the hot fix patch should probably come out Tuesday Nov 29 (this is based on timing of past hotfixes after a release). Saying "fixed hotfix 1" is a confirmation that when the hotfix patch goes live that the fix for that bug is definitely included in that patch.
Yeah i saw that later...it seems we still have to wait more.
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Also happened to me.
Tried to quickly summon a guard to break the pallet, power stopped working entirely with the sound being heard all game from that point.
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I honestly don't really know why his Tier 3 tentacle strikes doesn't actually injure survivors (if they are not infected).
I can see a point on lv 1 and 2, because you give them a free sprint burst at infection but you are building up your power at the very least, so you get something in return.
And after all the time needed to get into Tier 3, why are you still giving free sprint bursts? You are getting absolutely nothing in return when you are supposed to be the most dangerous. There have been times when i was lv 3 and i just didn't use my power at all because it was faster to M1 instead. At least before i knew i was getting "stronger" with every infection but now?
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It has already been confirmed that the hitbox will be buffed to something in between what was in PTB and what is on Live.
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@Zultek said:
Can someone give me the long version of every shortcuts in this topic?
I am new and not that smart right now:
PT=?
BT=?
DH=?
CH=?
DS=?
Ub=?
All of them are perk names.
PT = Prove Thyself
BT = Borrowed Time
DH = Dead Hard
CH = Circle of Healing
DS = Decisive Strike
UB = Unbreakable