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@vBlossom_ said:
No, base gen time was increased to 90 seconds, gen tapping is no more, base gen kick (even with pop) takes -5%.
Pop was pretty weak when it was 20%, now it's just back to that again. In my opinion Pop is the healthiest slowdown perk in the game because it requires the killer to hook a survivor and then move to the gen they want to pop.
Honestly I will never understand why the devs don't take more risks and try and nerf camping and tunneling at basekit more, before nerfing slowdown options of killers that help killers play fair and square without tunneling and camping. This patch looks like it will just nerf killers that play in a fair way, while not doing much about tunneling and camping killers, especially with that dreadfull DS nerf.
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Yeah I think the nerf to 150% would have been fine without the buff to exhaustion. Now you'll just have the perk up even more frequently, which doesn't sound good to me.
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Boy I just saw this nerf and couldn't believe my eyes. It seems like a bad joke if you ask me. They finally buffed it back to 5 seconds only to nerf it to 4 seconds one patch later. DS is a necessary evil in this game right now, so this nerf is just so stupid.
The DS and PGTW nerfs are really bad in my opinion.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3714103#Comment_3714103
Imagine comparing DbD to symmetric competitive shooters like Counter Strike and Siege. What else would you compare it to? Hockey?
DBD's asymmetric nature has not a lot to do with this discussion here. Why shouldn't one compare it to symmetric games like Counter Strike or Siege when it comes to this topic? In all cases you are just screwing over your team by leaving early or going afk.
And yes, I get that in DBD's case, both sides have access to different characters, unlike symmetric games such as Counter Strike. But in the end that doesn't change much.
Of course I am not surprised that people on these forums would defend leaving early or going afk.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712904#Comment_3712904
So you think the issue is significantly worse post latest patch?
Maybe, it seems to be worse for some. Scottjund made a video about how out of 14 matches he had a leaver in 10 of those matches, or something along those numbers.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
The maps are literally killing the game on their own at this point.
How exactly are maps killing this game? I get that solo queue has it rough at the moment, but how are maps a problem? Except of course for the new Haddonfield map.
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@Blueberry said:
I think the prevalence of it is due to entitlement.
I would argue it also has something to do with the bad state the game has been in since the latest patch.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712147#Comment_3712147
It was the case for quite some time already that mainly Killers complain about Survivors not being able to suicide on Hook or stuff like that. You see obvious Killer Mains posting this. You dont see that many Survivors complain about it (granted, this Forum is very killer-sided and I guess if you go on reddit or twitter, you probably see more Survivors complain about teammates suiciding because there are more Survivors).
But as Killer, it should not be relevant - in the end, they achieve their goal. And the sweatfest I encounter ingame should not really show that Killers dont want to win. And a Survivor suiciding does a lot for them to win the game.
So my assumption is that they lose points and it does not feel as good to win a 3v1 than it would be to win a 4v1.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712139#Comment_3712139
This thread is not about SoloQ. It is about Killers complaining about suiciding Survivors.
Yeah no I have seen enough survivors complain about this too. If we are going to actually argue that you can immediately tell whether it's a survivor or killer main complaining about hook suicides.
And as a killer, yes it can be relevant. As I have already said, some people like to play out matches properly. How would it be if the losing team in Overwatch just always gave up as soon as it looked bad for them? And, sure, there might be a bit more comeback potential in Overwatch compared to DBD, but the difference isn't that big.
Also, as a side note, but these forums have long stopped being killer sided. I remember when they used to be killer sided, but we've seen a big increase in survivor mains as well, acting like survivor is impossible to win with.
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@alaenyia said:
The difference between solo and SWF is a lot. But make no mistake, this game is 100% making changes as if all survivors are in a SWF. This is the main argument of solo survivors which make up well over half the player base. Killers have buffed again and again and again to combat SWF (which are a tiny fraction of the player base, 4 man making up less than 10%) and solos just get to be cannon fodder.
This is definitely quite exaggerated.
The biggest problem in solo queue are teammates anyways, which has nothing to do with the game's balance. Of course, solo queue does have it's struggles, especially camping and tunneling.
Solo queue could definitely receive more information to work with, like basekit kindred, and camping and tunneling also should be nerfed more. But solo survivor isn't just cannon fodder.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Killers want to enjoy their power trip. Survivors giving up does not support this.
I honestly wonder what is wrong with people like you. This bitterness towards one side of the game is just really sad to be honest.
I am not even sure how one would determine that it's mainly just killer mains who complain about survivors giving up. But nevertheless, believe it or not, people just like to play out matches properly, without having people give up somewhere during the match.
This us vs them is just so pathetic.
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I feel like Victor would need quite the changes to gain some counterplay. He would have to be much slower, and his pounce would have to be dodgeable. Seems very unlikely that Victor will receive such changes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I am fine as can be.
You are too dependent on Soma Family Photo, so no, I disagree, you could use some improvements.
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We need to keep in mind that DBD was a much different game back when Fredy was old Freddy as well. I could see old Freddy actually not being that bad in current DBD, especially with maps having become much fairer now.
I think maybe decreasing the transition time of survivors getting put into the dream world just a bit, and maybe a few other small buffs, and then the devs could see how he works.
Sadly I doubt we'll ever see old Freddy, since he was quite harsh against newer players because of the aura reading.
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@Ohyakno said:
You'll get a lot of singularity players saying EMPs are fine. They're not. They need to not print until the previous one is consumed and maybe only print to 95% to make them more difficult to grab during chase. One of the big points of friction on playing this killer is thinking you're gonna get a cool snipe on someone you're chasing and it turns out your big brain camera is disabled for the next thirty years.
Not huge on your soma nerf.
The problem with nerfing EMP's in any severe way is that it just makes Singu's 3 gen unbearable to go against. Your nerf suggestion would be way too much, it would make EMP's way too weak.
Soma is nerfed as compensation for making his teleport at base a bit faster, so that Soma wouldn't get out of hand. It's kind of like taking a bit of soma's power and adding it to Singu's basekit. I don't see how that would be bad.
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@kit_mason said:
Whilst I'm in agreement with your QoL suggestions, the rest of this post doesn't make much sense to me.
I think that EMPs are entirely fine as they are. Creating addons designed to make them worse to use only emboldens territorial strategies that neither side finds fun to pursue without particularly improving hyperaggressive strategies.
Add to this the nerf to Soma Family Photo, and the version of The Singularity this would create would be less fun to play as, more punishing to play aggressively with, and more disliked by the wider community, in my opinion.
I am not quite sure I understand. The only addon change that I am suggesting that would buff his terretorial playstyle a bit more is the addon that increases the automatic generation time of EMP's.
The basekit buffs are all geared towards making Singu just a bit stronger in chase, without becoming too oppressive, and the nerf to Soma Photo is just compensation. Pretty much taking a bit of Soma's power and adding it to basekit. I can't see that making him more disliked by the community.
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I would disagree here. Killers becoming more complex by design doesn't mean they are becoming more powerful.
Killers like Xeno or Unknown definitely have more in their kit, but that's because BHVR has to constantly try and come up with something new for their killers. I don't think that makes them more powerful though. I wouldn't say that Unknown or Alien are stronger than Huntress for example.
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I believe 60 seconds would be too little, I think 90 seconds would be the sweet spot. 120 seconds is too long though, I agree with that.
I definitely agree that the broken status effect shouldn't be permanent. That's what really kills this perk. I wouldn't mind if the perk just injured a survivor and didn't inflict the broken status effect at all.
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The Adrenaline nerf was truly unnecessary in my opinion, but I doubt it's this nerf that will make a noticeable amount of survivors quit the game. That seems like an overreaction.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707601#Comment_3707601
Yeah the map could have been fine if they reduced the size OR weakened the strength of the houses. Doing both just makes it an incredibly killer sided map.
This map rework needs so serious work to be balanced now. I'd personally restore the previous version of the map and it's larger size, but keep some of the new outer tiles while also keeping the houses weak. I think that would result in a much more balanced map overall.
I do agree that just making the houses a little weaker would have probably be sufficient. I do still believe the current Haddonfield can be balanced if the devs just add a bunch more of pallets to the map, and maybe add back 1 or 2 windows as well.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706803#Comment_3706803
Dang yeah, back to having their power taken hostage. I was giving good praise on the Twins changes too. I guess I take that all back. Twins are still going to be just as unpopular to play as they were before now.
Twins becoming unpopular is probably a very good thing for the game as a whole though, considering how insufferable they are to verse for most people. But a killer being fun to go against is sadly not something BHVR always takes into consideration.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707118#Comment_3707118
Borgo and reworked Haddonfield are both way too small. You shouldn't be able to wave to the killer from opposite sides of the map.
Borgo is 144 sqT, which is pretty balanced in my opinion. That map is generally very fair for both sides.
Haddonfield is now only 132 sqT, yet it still spawns quite a few deadzones, and has few usable windows now. I would argue even 132 sqT could be fair though if survivors had enough to work with, but they definitely do not on the current Haddonfield map.
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@Rudjohns said:
another meta shake up will be like the first
a bunch of survivor perks being nerfed to the ground
a few survivor perks buffed to the point killer mains will complain a lot and demand nerfs
a few killer perks being "nerfed" only for them to reconsider and buff back again
a bunch of killer perks buffed but people don't give a damn about them
Yeah perk changes really haven't been as one sided as you are trying to make it sound like. There are enough killer perks that have received nerfs in the past as well, and survivor perks that have been buffed.
Thana and Eruption for example got nerfed because people complained about them being too strong. It's not just killer mains getting survivor perks nerfed.
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I just had a match on RPD where survivors lured me into one of the rooms with a pallet in the corner, and when they dropped the pallet on me I wasn't able to break the pallet nor move out of the corner I was trapped in because of some invisible wall. And I am pretty positive the survivors knew about that bug so it seems to always be there.
Beware of that map. It seems to be broken.
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I definitely noticed a difference on the macmillan maps. They seem grayer now.
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I feel like the argument that solo q always gets hit harder is being used for any change nowadays that is bad for survivor.
However, I do agree that the nerf to Adrenaline was very unnecessary.
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I just had a look at the map in custom matches, haven't actually played it yet, but it really seems like the map doesn't have enough pallets that survivors can properly work with. Some unsafe pallets are completely fine as long as there are enough stronger pallets as well. And especially with how small the map has become, it definitely needs more pallets, especially the middle of the map.
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@Rxstevo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704411#Comment_3704411
This is a hard disagree. Survivors already have a lot of counter play in chase like Los, certain vaults or loops, pre dropping pallets, and EMPs. Any decent team with a brain can shut down your power in chase without getting overdrive hits because you didn't bring soma. Also using overdrive with no soma family photo mid chase is basically useless since by the time they run to the next pallet your overdrive is out because you were too slow and overdrive doesn't last too long. Without soma he's basically just a more complicated hag. His power is designed to be a chase killer, but what's the point if the power doesn't give chase value.
This has definitely not been my experience with Singu. His overdrive is definitely helpful sometimes, and the teleport is a very strong catch up tool to survivors.
Not to mention you can do plenty of mindgames with his teleport at pallets and windows as well.
I just think soma photo has the potential to reduce the counterplay of survivors during chase too much, which is why I wouldn't want it to become basekit. I'd rather have them nerf the EMP availability one last time.
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@goodfriday said:
Yeah its so disgusting then they wonder why more survivors give up or more people play with swf or less and less people play this game. They need to remove the survivors out the game and turn into a killer vs killer only game ^^. I just cannot think of one thing that is NEVER complaint about on survivor yet killers make it seem survivors are the one who whines more. I cant even tell I seen any topic asking about a killer nerf other than a few unknown ones. @Spare_Them_Mori_Me
"they wonder why more survivors give up or more people play with swf or less and less people play this game"
This narrative sure isn't reflected by current queue times, that's for sure.
Don't get me wrong, the survivor role definitely has it's issues and is in need of some help, mainly against tunneling and camping, but it's also not THAT bad. And just because the survivor role can be rough, doesn't mean they don't have any broken things at all.
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I get the frustration with knight and skull merchant, but singu has more than enough counterplay for survivors. And the same goes arguably for Unkown as well. No idea how those killers are problematic.
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I definitely agree with fixing his bugs. Placing pods can be so frustrating sometimes because of the terrible collision detection.
The buffs I don't agree with though. I think slipstreaming is fast enough, the detection just needs to be more consistent. And especially soma photo should not become basekit in my opinion. It just reduces the counterplay survivors have in chase.
I think if they just fix singus bugs, he should be in a good spot. The only buff the devs could add is to increase the time it takes for emps to generate by a bit, but that's it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703354#Comment_3703354
The thing is back then DS was actually respected by Killers (not by all tho). And even back then it would have been the best to just eat it and tunnel the Survivor out.
But since they nerfed it to 3 seconds tunneling just increased a lot because there was no measurements which made Killers fear when they tunnel. DS might be back to 5 seconds, but every Killer knows by now that tunneling one Survivor out is just the best thing to do. So I guess most will just eat the DS and then tunnel again.
In the end, it is still not a good Anti-Tunnel tool and it took far too long for the Devs to just revert the uneccessary Nerf from a few years ago. They could have done more, there were more than enough solid ideas around.
I wouldn't have minded more, like it working for each hook stage, but I wouldn't call it a bad anti-tunnel tool in any way or form. I believe it will help.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703031#Comment_3703031
He's still likely top of A-tier, which is fine.
It's incredibly disappointing that we waited four years for Twins changes and they've essentially boiled down to some minor number changes.
DS will still not be great, but it'll be better.
UW got super nerfed. Finally.
Why will DS not be great? It's now back the way it was before it's nerf, except for working during end game. Obviously it won't fix the tunneling problem that DBD has, but for a perk it will be good I believe, and will at least help with tunneling.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701852#Comment_3701852
Becausse kill rate are 60%+ meaning draw is 2.4 kills. But I would still call it a draw if you hooked 6 times or more. Or if you're last match was 3K or more.
That doesn't sit right with me either. I don't know, to me a 2 kill 2 escape game is a draw.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701979#Comment_3701979
draws rarely exist in games. every game has objective and one side must complete objective to win. for example, in chess, the goal of the game is to checkmate king. draw in chess only occur when neither side checkmate the king. this is called stalemate.
in dbd, there is no such thing as stalemates. one side escape or dies. that is all there is to it. killer consider winning when they kill 3 or 4 survivors. As a result of what killer consider winning, everything that is not winning is a survivor win. this account 4 escapes, 3 escapes, 2 escapes.
Definitely disagree with that. 2 kills 2 escapes is a draw in my eyes.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701852#Comment_3701852
The survivors did 5 gens before you killed them and half the team escaped, you literally failed your objective as killer, it is a loss.
The killer got two kills, two survivors escaped. So no, I don't see it as the killer failed their objective completely. It's a tie, since both teams scored two points of their objective so to speak.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701852#Comment_3701852
survivors completed all 5 gens and 2 or more escaped through exit gate. that is the objective of the game. this is how win-streaks are lost. just look at SupaAlf winstreak and momo's blight win streak.
I get that win streaks are lost that way, since it's a draw and not a win. But yeah, I consider a 2k a draw and not a loss. Survivors objective is to escape, killers objective is to get kills. Killers and survivors each get two of those, which sounds like a draw to me.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701852#Comment_3701852
Because a 2K means the exits are open.
The killer has two objectives, kill survivors and prevent the exits from being powered. You failed to prevent the exits from being powered.
That's definitely something we disagree about then. I don't see how preventing the exits from being opened would have the same priority as getting kills. In my eyes, a 2k is a draw, 2 survs are killed, 2 have escaped.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
2k is a loss. yes.
Why on earth is 2k a loss?
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701432#Comment_3701432
Well, Survivors would need to learn the time/frame to look out for to know if the Killer is committing to the action. Killers can already bait with pallet breaks to make Survivors hesitate anyway, this is just a more sophisticated version of that, accessible to everyone, even entry level players.
What makes you say that Killers shouldn't receive buffs right now?
Well for one the average kill rate is 60%, which personally I think is too high anyways. Which is why I want to see some nerfs to camping and tunneling.
But even if one intends a 60% kill rate, we already have enough killers with a 60% kill rate or even higher, so that these killers don't need any further buffs.
Furthermore, while not as bad as some people make it out to be in my opinion, Solo queue can be pretty rough right now. They are in need of help if anything.
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Not sure if I agree with this. Having to always guess whether a killer will actually kick a pallet or just fake it might make pallets too weak. Same goes for flashlight saves.
Right now the game is in no area where killers should receive more general buffs anyways.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700551#Comment_3700551
Agree the maps are getting worse and worse with each update for survivors. This is one of my major thing I dislike about the game. I liked Borgo before the rework and it was fair. Now it‘s the most killer sided map. Same for garden of joy and coldwind maps.
Behaviors balancing team is really bad. They never try to balance good perks. All they do is gutting strong ones and taking years for a minor buff and what annoys me the most they rarely introduce good new stronger perks. I prefer a strong vs strong balance over a weak vs weak balance. It‘s just not fun, there is literally no strong and fun perk in this game anymore.
Survivor items are in big need of buffs and addon changes. I would just revert the medkit nerfs. Medkits are so laughable. All are the same and the addons suck. Flash lights are also very bad, you can only blind the killer if he‘s in a animation. They should blind faster and we need light burn back. Keys more aura addons and a base effect. Giving the green map the effects of the iri map. Toolboxes need more charges. Firecrackers having more charges would be cool. I would really like to get a item/luck/cheats update.
Overall I agree with you.
Holy ######### those buffs are so overkill. And on top of that you want maps to become more survivor sided again?
Killers would never do anything else but tunnel and camp like crazy anymore. Provided you'd even have killers to face off against.
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This is just a straight buff to killers. Time has shown again and again that buffs alone won't work. Tunneling and camping need to be nerfed as well.
Not to mention that the debuff values you are suggesting are way too high.
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I agree with most of these, but I don't think the movement speed while holding his power should be increased. It's one of the main sources of counterplay for survivors, so increasing that seems like a bad idea to me. The other buffs seem arguably fine, though some of the numbers might be a tad too high.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698762#Comment_3698762
Mothers dwelling is harder to see on, the loops are still super safe and the loops got moved closer together because they made the map smaller without lowering the number of loops meaning the strongest way of looping (chaining loops) got made exponentially stronger. Also Borgo is still awful to play on and still has alot of super safe loops, it was killer sided for like 2 weeks then they stuck pallets everywhere. Coldwind and Macmillan are arguably better but I didn't play old old coldwind so can't speak on that. Ormond literally got buffed even more for survivors for some reason.
As for new Haddonfield, main building is still safe especially if the window vault spawns. Most of the new loops are super safe and the one bit that was super killer sided being the mid map which was mostly baron has had more loops added all of which are extremely safe. It's better just because the 2 window building don't exist anymore but it's not even close to being killer sided.
Most reworks get made "better" but aren't close to be balanced.
I have to disagree here. My experience with Mother's Dwelling has been pretty good so far. Not all of the loops are safe anymore and it also doesn't spawn too many pallets in my opinion. Plus it's now appropriately sized.
The same with Borgo. Yes Borgo can still spawn some very safe loops, but it also has a fair amount of mindgameable loops now.
Ormond I can still see being a tad survivor sided, but nothing crazy anymore. I find it to be fairly balanced as well.
And from what I have seen of the new Haddonfield, it is pretty killer sided. A lot of the windows were just cut, and the pallets on the map do not compensate enough for all the cut windows. Especially some of the edge map pallets that looked insanely unsafe.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698740#Comment_3698740
- Mindbreaker gives exhaustion and drastically reduces usage of exhaustion perks, also survivors need to walk a lot to remove exhaustion
- Infectious Fright when someone is close and usually other survivors are close to downed one.
- Lightborn, easy counter but situational.
3 perks that could counter BGP, from first two you can have more value but aren't easy as lightborn, you're welcome :)
So the only solutions you have are equipping certain perks. Fine, survivors arguably have to equip certain perks to counterplay tunneling as well. Personally I find both to be a problem but ok.
However, how on earth does this now correlate with OP's skill in any way? You say people who have trouble counterplaying Backgroundplayer are not that good and don't belong into high MMR, yet the only solutions you have are completely non skill based, because it's just about equipping a perk. It has nothing to do with any skillful play on the killers side.
See where your logic completely falls apart?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698762#Comment_3698762
I don't think the McMillan Maps were problematic to begin with, at least in the last 4 years or so...
I dont know about haddonfield on PTB depends on the pallet spawns.
I fully agree on coldwind, with cowshed being less stupid they are overall really balanced even though rancid abattoir sometimes spawns too big dead zones for my taste.
I would say some of the original mac millan maps are a little unbalanced. Groaning Storehouse and Shelter Woods are arguably a bit too big, and Iron Keep might actually be a bit killer sided now. But I really like the new versions of the macmillan maps.
Yes Rancid certainly has too few pallets. This can sopmetimes extend to other Coldwin maps as well, but other than that, they are pretty well balanced in my opinion.
I only saw a video of Haddonfield on the ptb, but the map looked awful in that video. Too many windows are cut, and survivors don't get compensated enough with pallets, not even close.
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@YayC said:
"the amount of survivor nerfs is just getting too unbearable"
You act like there hasn't been a barrage of nerfs for killer too. You guys literally just had a meta perk buffed, a hard meta perk given a slap on the wrist while UW which is significantly less common than DS or Adren just got heavily nerfed. Mangled and Hem just got massive nerfs undermining the entire point of these mechanics which mostly affected sloppy butcher which is a perk only M1 killers used. They also nerfed STBFL again, a perk only M1 killers use. They have done countless reworks to killers only 1 of which actually buffed the killer (trickster) while the others all but delete the killer from even being useable vs decent survivors (Sadako).
Everytime a map that is horrifically against the killer is reworked, they barely improve it if at all. Eeyrie, mothers dwelling, Haddonfield and Garden of Joy all still suck to play as killer and all received reworks because of how bad they are.
WoO is insanely overpowered right now, I literally don't play without it because this perk alone is more valuable than any other perk in the game even if you know tile spawns. Being able to know exactly what resources are available where in a game with maps as imbalanced as this extends chases to disgusting levels. It needs to be adjusted.
A lot of the map reworks have been very good though. Maps are far more balanced now. Just look at the Coldwin maps, the new Macmillan maps, or Borgo. I also don't see how Mother's Dwelling is still problematic for killer. And on the ptb we have a killer sided haddonfield.
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Flashbangs hitting a killer despite the killer looking at a wall is indeed a problem. And I can see why Backgroundplayer is considered problematic too.
However flashlight saves in general I do not see as problematic. Survivors should have a fair chance to get a flashlight or flashbang save.
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I heavily disagree. I think the perk is completely fine. It definitely should keep the basekit bt as well, just because you unhook yourself doesn't mean you can't still get tunneled. I also see no reason to have it deactivate during end game, killers already have enough of a chance to secure one kill after the gates are powered.