ZaKzan
ZaKzan
About
- Username
- ZaKzan
- Joined
- Visits
- 23
- Last Active
Comments
-
the game gives survivors enough resources on maps for them to almost indefinitely, and in some cases actually indefinitely, run the killer.
You barely even need perks even at rank 1 survivor. If 4 survivors could afford to bring the best items plus the best add ons every game, this game would be way more survivor biased than it already is. You don't even need to spend bloodpoints to get items, just find the chests in the levels, or you could even run the item perks to get fully kitted rare items from chests, you don't need to run 4 second chance perks to survive.
-
I'd rather have gens be more engaging than a second objective. I've always been a fan of the skyrim lockpick minigame, something like that would be really fun to do while also trying to manage the terror radius and looking out for the killer. Could make each consecutive success increase the difficulty of threading the needle and then when you fail a couple times the gen explodes.
-
noed doesn't need touched because it's a bad perk and not strong at all. You hamstring yourself for a chance at a kill at the end of the game. Considering how this game easily snowballs one way or the other, playing most of the game with 3 perks does not make up for 1 perk that gives you insta downs at the end if the survivors don't cleanse the totem. Also considering this, Noed is usually completely useless one way or the other, you either kill all the survivors before the game ends or you manage to grab one at the end. It's not a 'win more' perk.
Here's a tip, if you see noed, just exit and don't be stupid enough to think you can save the person the killer just hooked. If survivors consistently did this, the population of people that use noed would decrease dramatically.
-
Pyramid head, 110%, every 20 seconds he can swing with an insta down or take out a pallet, reduced recovery from hit or no recovery time at all, otherwise no way to hit survivors. With M2 he can completely and instantly remove his terror radius for 5 seconds, 40 second cooldown.
-
lmao, with SB, DS, DH, BT, BL, Lithe, survivors want yet another, 5th chance to wiggle free of the killer.
Actually, speaking of hooks, there are actually way too few hooks rather than too many. You can't punish survivors as severely and you are forced to slug if the entire team is SWF / decides to be altruistic and you got 1 person hooked and 3 people downed at that hook. You can't always hook all the survivors in this situation, despite you taking advantage of their mistakes, and unless you slug them to death or wait til one has unbreakable, you will have to take the wiggle and hopefully that doesn't throw the game entirely in the survivors' favor, off of a severe mistake that they made.
There are actually too many things that reward survivors for making mistakes in this game. It wouldn't be as bad if there weren't chains of pallets and windows that survivors can exploit. A survivor can make a mistake, dead hard through your hit, throw down a jungle gym pallet, and buy another 2-3 minutes all when they would otherwise be downed. In this instance, the game was single handedly won by dead hard.
As it stands, killers get punished way too hard for mistakes, yet on the flip side survivors get rewarded way too generously with mistakes. Just by running to a corner of a map instead of trying to loop the killer more in the middle will waste more of the killer's time without using resources and there are usually very few hooks out there, so you actually do have a chance of wiggling free. This strategy is a bit balanced because you are taking a hit / down in order for a chance of wiggling free, there is a trade off. In some places on some maps there is only one hook in these areas and if you remember where survivors are killed, you can take advantage of it. Again rewarding skillful play and also taking a risk.
-
camping and tunneling are not issues because they negatively impact the game for the killer. The devs are never going to tell killers that they can't kill certain people. Camping and tunneling is punished by the survivors slamming gens
-
@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216069#Comment_1216069
It's a stat that is not directly related to skill for many, many reasons, one of which is that you have control over how long a chase is if you are better than your opponent. It's just not useful because it's so easy to cheat on it.
But I don't get how the current system prevents abuse in this way either. In any ranking system with some type of economy as reward, you're going to have people abuse the ranking system to pick on the newer players to get easy money easy xp etc.
In competitive gaming, this is called seal clubbing. It's quite prevalent and it's quite unavoidable if you want your game to be skill based and balanced, because there will always be skilled players wanting to pick on unskilled players for easy points. You can help prevent this by increasing RNG in your game, but that has an inverse relation towards skill based gameplay and consequently, balance. If the skill of the player is the balance in the game, then a skilled player will always beat an unskilled player.
Balancing the game towards the lower ranks or lower skills makes veterans angry and bored. Balancing the game towards the higher skill and higher rank people means that the newbies get picked on, but there's a caveat to this, some of the newbies become skilled players and join the higher ranks of gameplay and continue to play the game. In the former, you have old, dedicated players quitting and in the latter you have newer players with no real loyalty other than the initial $10 they spent on the game quitting. The sunk cost fallacy is very profitable and very healthy for games in the long term. You see this trend especially in PvP games.
-
@Almo said:
In addition to Peanit's awesome answer, this statistic is very easy to manipulate to remain low rank while still getting 4k. :)
Which is easily fixed by making kills apart of the calculation for killer ranks, just not the ONLY calculation for killer ranking.
-
@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216016#Comment_1216016
Clearly better than you. The highest peak in 2016 was still under 43k. That graph clearly shows nothing touched 50k until 2018 even though the vast majority of 2018 was spent under that number. 2019 is where it shows a closer stick to the 50k mark but even that years falls under 50k when the peaks are averaged out. It's actually somewhat amazing that the facts are right in front of you, you bring them up, and then you arrogantly stick to an obviously incorrect point.
And if you'd read the chart a little bit more, you'd see that we're currently on a peak, not a decline, which means right now the game at the current point has just about the maximum amount of players that it can have, and it's starting a decline. Considering a new chapter was just released, this is not a good sign.
You should pay more attention to the peaks and notice the trends. With exception of a few instances, this game has roughly remained the same.
I guess it's a matter of perception, but I think more value is gained from the dips than the peaks. Over the 4 years of its operation, it has just about gained 1-1.5 players per day since it was first released about 4 years ago.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
The problem with this is it punishes stealthy playstyles. If I manage to completely evade the killer when they come to check on my gen I'd be considered a bad player under this system.
there are some thoughts I had with this. One thought is that you take the same system put in place to reveal ghost face and apply it to the survivors, in that if the killer's vision is not centered on you and you are within their terror radius, you are gaining points.
The other issue I have with evasion and hiding gameplay is that it doesn't really help the game. As a survivor team, you need to all take downs and all take hits and hooks, that way you mitigate the stress of the other survivors who may be on death hook while you haven't been hooked even once. In essence, you all have to take risks in order to have the greatest chance of you all making it out alive.
I think the second point is more worth it towards the health of this game, because as a survivor, you have to team together with the other 3 survivors in order to survive the trial, it forces more team play rather than solo play. This also goes towards balancing SWF gameplay if the point of balance in the game is already the survivors coordinating and working together.
-
if the game isn't dying but isn't growing, that means that it is losing players at a rate similar to the players it's gaining, which means that player retention is low, and player acquisition is high. This is not a good state for any game to be in, and is one of the portents of a dying game, as player acquisition doesn't last forever.
-
@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1215890#Comment_1215890
This is flawed. Placing the requirement to both be chased for half a match and do gens for half a match on individual survivors is not equal to a killer chasing and killing survivors. There are four survivors on a map, only one is in a chase at a time, and you don't get to select who gets into a chase in most instances. The killer makes that ultimate choice. In a 4-man team, people take on roles - someone more confident at chasing may wear a more flamboyant outfit and pursue the killer. Someone who plays more immersive may hide and work on generators while the killer is busy. Neither of these are poor strategies or game play. They all work to serve the greater good of the team in the end. At least that is the idea.
Additionally, maps and mechanics have been and are being changed to provide for substantially shorter chases.
I could also see this promoting killers to tunnel survivors. If a survivor is off-hooked and so you enter a "chase" with them and down them in a matter of seconds, this would skew the numbers and make for a very unenjoyable experience for survivors, as it already does.
This also eliminates killer's other objectives, which are meant to help provide balance in a match, for the aforementioned reason. The current PIP system requires killers to do more than just down survivors to gain rank. I know killers think they shouldn't have to engage in the other objectives, since "Killers gotta kill", but the point requirement to do so is incentive to not play like a dick, IMO. If you don't derive any rank by applying gen pressure and meeting other objectives, what is the incentive not to camp and tunnel to ensure short chases and kills?
It seems as though this would only serve to significantly swing the rank pendulum in the other direction and would require a significant investment of time/money to overhaul the game just to accommodate this adjustment, which if implemented into the current state of the game would be unbalanced.
For the base reason of 'variables' already stated, a multi-objective system seems most fair across the board, and we still don't know what the effects of the massive impending patch changes will look like when it comes to the ranking system. The job of survivors will become more difficult, dealing with less loop options, smaller maps, and slower gens...and theoretically the job of killers should become a bit easier for all the same reasons. I would be interested to see how this reflects in the ranking system.
I dont disagree it needs work. But I dont see this as the equitable change you claim it to be.
This is exactly why we need a more simple system, there are too many variables to account for. If the killer isn't killing effectively, they will be downranked accordingly. If a survivor isn't surviving accordingly, they will be downranked. You don't seem to realize that the system will tend to solve the problems you mentioned as people play more games. This is how most games work with any sort of competitive matchmaking. Will it be too easy to kill? surely, until it is not, at higher ranks. What if it's too easy to kill at higher ranks you say? Easy, you make changes that increase survivor chase time. I have not said that this will be balanced right off the bat, in fact I alluded to the exact opposite, that it would be extremely unbalanced to start, but it's something concrete to work towards that will ultimately end in balance.
What do you mean about eliminating killer objectives? This makes either hitting or downing survivors a priority for the killer, which is basically the objective it is now with extra steps. This simplifies the killer objectives and achieves the ultimate goal anyway. All of the killer objectives now ultimately achieve the goal of downing players and then ultimately killing them. The problem here is that the killer can kill too efficiently and be punished for it. This shouldn't be the case ever, I don't even care what you have to say about balance in this respect, because a killer's priority is always to kill, which is diametrically opposed to the survivor's priority, which is to survive, and thus competition is born through these two struggles. Any deviation from this just ends in failure, as we have painfully seen.
Survivors started this game as extremely strong, so the issue with balance has tended towards making chases more fairer for the killer. You may think that I have the killer in mind with these changes, but really I have the health of the entire game in mind. Survivors will get bored and killers will get frustrated, you see this already in the gameplay currently. Simplifying objectives and then balancing the game around those objectives is the best course of action to make sure that the game is as fair as possible for both parties involved and a sense of competition is developed and nurtured.
Unfortuinately, you chose to play a PvP game. PvP games are filled with dicks. PvP games also need to be balanced accordingly. With a much simpler system in place, dicks can be pushed to lower ranks and people who play fair will be in higher ranks. This game is at an impasse, where it has to choose between being a casual party game and a real PvP game. Right now it's trying to be both, and that has resulted in the issues we have now. True PvP games enjoy massive profit as people invest significant amounts of time and money into them. Party games are mostly memes and you can make money with these games, but it takes an extraordinary amount of creativity to pull off. You can see why most games try to develop some sort of esport around them to increase longevity and profitability.
-
the game has a fairly low skill ceiling, so players want more competition to continue playing. This is true for any game really with exception of a few extremely fun games that are fun to play even casually. Unfortunately, the players go, for the most part, ignored, which is why you see extremely toxic behavior. Older players leave while newer players quickly reach the skill cap.
In extending the life of a game, you either increase player retention or you increase player acquisition. With this game, the ladder was pursued, and like 95% of all games that pursue this method, the playerbase has become overwhelmingly toxic. If you can't have fun outplaying another person, you will have fun ridiculing them.
-
It's not dying, it's just that player retention is low. Once you reach a certain level there's nothing more to do and it gets old and boring. You see a lot of players who are doing the complaining are those in the higher ranks and are higher skilled complaining that the game isn't balanced as when you reach a certain level, personal competition is what keeps you playing. This is the reason why a 22 year old game, starcraft: brood war, is still actively played by tens of thousands of people worldwide.
-
@Peanits said:
This wouldn't really reflect skill due to the way chases work. Different killers are able to get hits (end chases) much easier than others, so certain killers would naturally rise to the top regardless of skill. Legion, for example, is able to close the gap really fast and get a hit counting as a won chase. Someone who uses Feral Frenzy and gets a hit with the Legion isn't necessarily better than someone who played Hillbilly and perfectly curved around a loop to get a down just because they got that hit sooner.
Or to use another example, Ghost Face might sneak up on someone and get a hit before they can even run, making the chase incredibly short. Or the Spirit might lose a chase as she phases, but get it back after ending her phase and immediately get a hit. Meanwhile other killers are going to be in chase much more consistently, like a Wraith or a Leatherface.
I wouldn't boil it down just to chase lengths, there's far too many variables in play for it to be reliable.
It's elegant in that it normalizes the objectives of both survivor and killer. Obviously the game isn't set up this way now and there would be a few problems with some killers, but that could be changed.
The problem here is that this game has been out what 3-4 years and behavior has yet to address this issue and all attempts have so far been failures. We can all agree that the current system is not good and basing skill off of many different factors for each side doesn't seem to be the right way to do things.
I would even say having a 50/50 weight on chase time and gens done for survivors, then chase time and survivors killed for killer. Ultimately the game boils down to those, you have to be chased by the killer and do gens in order to succeed as survivor, you have to chase survivors and kill them as killer to succeed as killer. I don't see how there would be too many variables in this and I think these two blanket statements entail the entirety of DBD. Of course you get people who suicide on hook, but that's generally not the norm, especially in higher tier play, so the ranking system will even itself out as killers and survivors who don't deserve high ranks will eventually plateau and not progress in ranking until they get better at chases / gens / kills.
Even considering killers like ghost face, you could determine the skill rating based off of the down instead of the initial hit. I would say that if you stalk someone to one hit down them and you do this consistently, you are a skilled ghost face killer. The only problem I can see here is with billy, maybe leatherface, but then again if you play well with these killers and down people quickly, you are being skilled. Again, here, killers can be altered and balanced, that's the elegance and beauty of this idea.
The pip system already in place could be used for this. You satisfy 25% of your objective and you get a black pip, 50% 1 pip, 100% 2 pips, or it could be harder than that and removing the black pip entirely could be an idea.
There is actually much more behavior could do balance-wise with this set up than the current set up and the hidden MMR system that is coming. You give killers and survivors simple objectives and you can alter the game based on those simple objectives, instead of having up to 4 different scoring events for each side. Are survivors getting their 50% pip off of gens all the time? better look into gen times. Are killers killing too many people? better look into pallets and windows or even perks.
-
@Awkward_Fiend said:
Killers that run Nemesis would then tank your 'rank' as they would end chases somewhat quickly. Same with Legion, as they play a hit and run game.
keep in mind, for this game to have true balance, the killer should be roughly 4 times as powerful as an individual survivor.
-
actually it should just boil down to chase time
doing gens is brainless, if you can end chases quickly as a killer, you will do well, if you can prolong chases as survivor, you will also do well. Forcing survivors to learn how to play the game is a good thing, and this would do that. Then since objectives are roughly the same for both survivor and killer, the game can be attuned and balanced accordingly. This also forces survivors to play more actively instead of hiding everywhere and taking no hits for the team.
-
@Seanzu said:
Spirit is a brainless killer, stick on stridor and there isn't a single thing survivors can do.
she's only brainless if you fight brainless survivors that don't alternate strategies of continuing to run and doubling back, forcing the spirit to waste a lot of time since sounds are bugged to hell.
Since you can go in a myriad of directions when spirit is in her spirit phase, spirit just boils down to roughly a 25% gamble. Considering there are more things you can do than just running in one of four directions, that RNG is increased to about 10% if you are a decent survivor and don't put yourself in the middle of nowhere.
-
@oxygen said:
It's clear that they don't want to make too many changes at once as there's so many things that are connected in all sorts of ways, so when it comes to changes to base design or balance I doubt we'll ever see an attempt at a big hail mary patch with all sorts of changes. Unexpected and undesirable effects might suddenly be discovered, and they can't always be caught on the PTB and tweaked to a better state in time.
Totally agree with stuff like accessibility settings, rank/devotion rewards, prestige and so on. Especially accessibility settings, even if colourblind mode or something ends up technically giving even those without colourblindness some sort of advantage it'll give the players with colourblindness way more for example.
They don't want to change their game because in their mind if it aint broke dont fix it. They currently make tens of millions of dollars a year on this game, why would they change it. They don't care that the game is unbalanced because why put effort time and money into something that is already profitable and you may make a change that negatively impacts profit.
There also seems to be an alarming lack of in house testing they do so that their game doesn't break when they make changes. In one of the maps they are testing for breakable walls, they very obviously made an infinite. Even just looking at it, a person with some ability to critically think would realize that the addition of a breakable wall would at the very least not change anything, then upon actual testing they could see that they just made an infinite and broke things more.
Now releasing things on the PTB would be ok in theory since the playerbase could test and break things for them. The problem here lies in them ignoring pretty much 99% of what the playerbase says in terms of balancing and map design and it takes months and even years of the playerbase constantly complaining for them to even attempt to do anything. If any issue is not incessantly complained about, it just doesn't get fixed. Take all the bugs associated with nurse, they reworked her but did absolutely nothing about all her bugs. This is also part of why so many things break when they add something to the game, because there are glaring issues with the game that are simply ignored and don't get fixed. So a problem that wasn't a huge problem becomes a huge dumpster fire and then is compounded with other problems when all they had to do is deal with that original problem to at the very least mitigate the damage done.
-
This game isn't meant to be enjoyed, as stated by the devs themselves, the game is supposed to frustrate you.
-
survivors are hilariously OP and you don't need the changes they're making to easily run killers for 5 gens.
The game could actually use less brain dead survivors, then the devs would see how unbalanced and weak killers are.
-
ya this game is super unbalanced and for the amount of traffic it has per day, development and patches are extremely painfully slow
it's going to be months before they fix this and then it will be months even years before they fix the problems that arise from the 'solution'
my tip is to not play this with any sense of competitiveness or fairness. You have to realize this game is horribly broken and it will never be fixed, it has always been like this and always will. The design philosophy around this game is centered around it being frustrating and mentally taxing, not fun and engaging. You are supposed to be put in the mental state you are in when you play this game. This is intended
-
there aren't enough high rank killers to match high rank survivors against, so the MM system eases the rank restrictions for those players.
Killer ranking is far too hard and survivor ranking is far too easy.
-
@BigTimeGamer said:
I play both at red ranks
Killer "mains" are like alliance on WoW, they think that they are some oppressed people and any changes or nerfs to killers is a war crime, so they use moris, tunnel, slug and say things like, "I don't show mercy" or "Survivors ruin this game!!!" There are posts even today with those sentiments.
Yall need to remember its a game lmao, if BHVR ever decide to start fixing Ghostface's reveal, it wouldn't be some injustice
You should probably see it from their perspective.
If you're playing survivor, if a game isn't going your way, you can just die on hook rinse repeat onto the next game. If you're killer and the game isn't going your way and the survivors are rubbing it in your face, you have to play and you have to take it until the game ends, if you just go AFK the survivors will just sit there in front of you gaining chase points, so you have to play. If you DC you get penalized.
This is a game that is very heavily survivor sided, which is why other asymmetric games are starting to pop up and actually gain some traction. I've tried to get people to play this game with me but they won't because this game is notorious for being heavily survivor sided. What makes it worse is that the community, especially the survivor community since it tends to attract the lowest common denominator, is extremely abusive and toxic.
The killer in this game really can't do anything to rub it in the faces of survivors because the devs have made such actions bannable under the guise of 'holding the game hostage.' The killer is forced to take any abuse the survivor team wants to dish out and they are forced to do it throughout the entire match. Now expand this to multiple games in a row and it's understandable that anyone would be a little upset over it. I don't know what rank you are, but as a higher red rank killer, about 80% of my games are like this, and during peak times, I'll go through about 5-6 hours straight of this with SWFs. All a killer can do is tunnel and camp, which means the other 3 survivors escape.
As a high rank survivor, I've never really been bothered by killers doing anything, because it only takes about 2 minutes worth of work to pip as a survivor and if the game isn't going my way I just bail. There's a very good reason why the majority of streamers that stream this game are survivors, because you don't need to pay full attention to this game and you can still be a top tier survivor. Killer is just exponentially more frustrating and much more demanding in terms of attention. You have to actually try to be a high rank killer, on the other hand you don't really need to try at all to be a high rank survivor.
-
@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208536#Comment_1208536
Sure, it's easy to just go through a mindless game play loop of farming some teammates, touching maybe one or two generators and wasting every pallet on the map for chase points just to barely pip with minimal points and screw all your teammates.
That's not what I play the game for though. If that's all I did, I would've quit a long time ago. DbD has the potential to be much more than that, and a lot of that potential rests on you and your teammates.
It's never going to be like that, the devs can't even figure out how to properly rank and score the game just to separate the cro magnons from the players who have a modicum of sentience. The devs are also extremely reluctant to change the game in meaningful ways. I hope the new changes to maps helps push the game in the right direction, but considering the outcry of people whining about how survivors are going to be more challenging to play, I dunno. When you got 80% of your playerbase whining about how they can't watch netflix and play the game at the same time, as a company you have to listen to that as that really effects your bottom line.
-
@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208525#Comment_1208525
Okay, now imagine your teammate in solo queue is doing that.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208510#Comment_1208510
We're back to this. Now you have a selfish teammate farming and waiting for hatch, not progressing the objective.
The difficulty of the match has once again been set by BHVR sending you into the trial with incompetent teammates. We've gone full circle. The solution to people doing stupid stuff shouldn't be to do even stupider stuff.
well, you can just do a gen, unhook someone, get chased by the killer, die, get your pip and your 10k points and go onto the next game all within the span of 4 or 5 minutes. You have plenty of options as a survivor if the game isn't going your way.
I really cannot stress enough how simple this game is as even a solo survivor. In fact it just increases the difficulty enough that if you want to personally challenge yourself you can, but you don't have to if you don't want to, you can still pull through with a decent survival rate even if you do barely anything, that's part of why you get so many dumb survivors, even at rank 1, because it's so simple to rank up and survive as a survivor. You don't need to think as a survivor, you don't need to try to reach the upper echelons of the game.
-
@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208506#Comment_1208506
Solo survivor's challenge is based on if BHVR gave you competent teammates or not.
not at all, if you are the last survivor the hatch opens up for you. You really don't need to do anything in this game if you're a survivor. You can just play as super safe as you want and then take hatch if your team mates are dumb. Just run DH, DS, Iron Will, and BT so you can farm points. Devastating build that is invulnerable to anything the killer can do to you. You can even use your team mates as meat shields.
-
this game is so easy as survivor, you don't need swf. You don't even need to play, just walk around and do totems or something then take hatch when your team dies, you don't even need to interact with the killer if you're a baby survivor. It only takes a few hours to learn the maps, then you can plow through killers solo
-
@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1207147#Comment_1207147
I'm genuinely interested to know, how was any patch in the last 12 months significantly survivor sided?
And I wouldn't say that I think any of the patches are done because BHVR devs just like survivors or killers more. I'm more of the opinion that changes that are happening are necessary for killers, but have been to the detriment of solo survivors - who are unfortunately just lumped in right alongside SWF without any of the luxuries that make SWF so strong and are the reasons for the changes being made.
The ruin nerf was one of the most significant balance changes in the history of DBD. It surely didn't benefit killers. The devs had to even try to convince the playerbase that losing 2-3 gens at the start of the match was ok and they had to totally readjust their point system for gatekeeping.
From a purely objective point of view, this game is still insanely survivor sided, at higher levels of play. The devs even alluded to this also in stating that they generally try to balance towards the majority of players, who sit between rank 20 and 10. If you know anything about this game, you'll know that between rank 20 and 10 killers are quite strong, but that's due to the inexperience of the survivors. When survivors start to learn the game, they become almost as strong as the killer, and considering there's 4 of them, that's a glaring problem.
-
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1206012#Comment_1206012
Honestly, I think the new ruin is just as good as the old ruin, just in a different way. You don't have to waste time kicking gens and if you run someone off a gen and they start working another gen, the previous gen is going to regress to zero. Old hex only regressed during skill checks, which was countered by salt.
However, it's not easy to run any killer for 5 gens with middle tiles. Killers know to avoid those tiles and only strategically go after survivors on those tiles. And killers still get survivors running those tiles. Watch Truetalent or Monto, they slaughter 4 man SWFs. I consider those strong tiles as a strategic element for killers and survivors. When do you run them and when do you go after other survivors. I think it's taking something away from the game and making it a bit to easy for killers.
The strongest tiles in the game are located on the outsides of the map. You got jungle gyms and the killer shack. The middle is usually a bunch of unsafe pallets surrounding a god loop. If you understand how to use the outside of the map, you will not only waste the killer's time more efficiently because then they have to travel more distance if they do catch you to get to your team mates, but you are also maximizing the value of the middle tiles as the game is progressively fought in the middle of the map as time goes on. Considering all the second chance perks survivors get, it is entirely easy to run killers on the outer edge of the map.
-
Imagine thinking the ruin nerf wasn't a killer nerf lmao
imagine thinking nerfs to the strongest loops in the game are actual survivor nerfs, when it is EASY to run a killer for 5 gens without the use of any tiles in the middle of the map
-
People abuse others on this game because they think they can get away with it. The problem is that they do get away with it.
Just perform this thought experiment: If abuse was strictly enforced, and people were permanently banned from this game first offense, you think so many people would be abusing others in this game?
-
Reporting players does nothing. Even going through reporting them directly to customer service does nothing. You will just have to suck it up or be banned. Massive abuses are unfortunately allowed on this game, which is why they happen so frequently to people who try to report them but are ignored.
You will need to record every game you play to catch an abuser and you will need to file multiple reports since not every time customer service will read your report and will just give you a copy pasta as response like this
-
Unfortunately, since this game came out, survivors have been coddled extensively. The devs have consistently squashed any type of counter toxicity by killers by making actions that the killer could use to shove their win in the face of survivors illegal while also simultaneously doing nothing about survivor toxicity. As a killer, you are required to take the abuse and if it is weighing heavily upon your mental health, then the devs have recommended killer players to simply not play the game or just play civilization instead.
Although if you spam cancel your moris or trap the survivors in any way, you will be banned permanently.
-
@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1201496#Comment_1201496
And then you hit a 1 shot killer and your dead hard is useless. Or you get exhausted on the ground. It's only reliable for distance, and SB / Lithe will get you way more distance than dead hard ever will.
"Can't outplay dead hard" except you can walk straight on top of the survivor and find out if they have it. It's only super tight loops where it can be used for distance that it is strong, and that's probably only happening at the highest levels of play. With the ruin nerf, the dev's have shown they are not balancing around that.
You're missing the point of dead harding. If you can walk on top of the survivor and have enough time to hit them, the survivor isn't using dead hard properly and it actually doesn't matter whether they have dead hard or not, because they're bad survivors. You don't even need it for super tight loops. You can use it to buy you 2-3 seconds to get to a pallet or a window to continue looping the killer. Or you can use it if you lose a 50/50 juke which then can propel to you either a stronger loop or you slamming the pallet on the killer's face, buying you enough time to escape.
The reason why one shot downs are seen as so strong is actually quite related to the point I'm trying to make. One shot downs do not give survivors that much needed grace period of invulnerability where they can make it to stronger tiles.
I am talking about higher levels of play because this game is absolutely broken at higher levels of play, extremely in the survivors' favor. At high levels of play, the killer has to rely on the survivors making multiple mistakes to win, there is no possible way to win against good survivors. Higher tier killers can juke well, but I have laid out the problem with that, because there are perks that allow survivors to make mistakes and not get punished for it.
-
@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1201407#Comment_1201407
The first scenario you are describing can be achieved with SB and Lithe as well. Those perk even allow you to get to a strong tile even without tanking a first hit. The second scenario is well ... how DH is supposed to work and something you as the killer has to consider as well, when mindgaming a survivor, by baiting the DH out. In some mindgame scenarios you can even block the pallet with the lunge for the survivor, while they DH.
Since DH gives invulnerability, there is no way to counter play it. The instances where you can bait it out or wait for a swing are instances where the survivor is not utilizing it. You can't always block the pallet completely, it takes high precision. The fact that survivors can turn severe mistakes into wins is why DH is so strong. SB and Lithe have special conditions that aren't always present during the match. Dead hard has a condition that is present in every match and almost every killer interaction with a survivor. You have to walk or crouch everywhere with SB, and most windows aren't nearly as strong as pallets. It is also viable to run two exhaustion perks as well, so you can run DH and Lithe. SB can easily buy you 40 seconds so that you can then DH. DH, SB, Iron Will, DS.
DH can be used to get that extra 2-3 seconds a survivor needs to get to the next chain of pallets and windows to ensure a long chase, or it can be used whenever the survivor makes a pathing error. It's a very versatile perk and punishes the killer for doing what they're supposed to do, hurt and then down survivors.
-
@LALYTHIA said:
Dead hard fails to actually function like 30% of the time. 😂 Not the best exhaustion perk. Not a real threat. Next.
Dead hard is the single strongest perk in the entire game, accounting for both killer and survivor perks
Imagine if killers had a super lunge perk they could use every 40 seconds to triple their lunge distance and have the hit register before they're done swinging to dumpster on survivors trying to throw pallet down at the last second.
In higher level games, one dead hard is all that you need to initiate a 5 gen chase. You get caught out of position by killer, you run to a weak tile, you throw the pallet or vault the window for a little distance, killer catches up and hits you, you gain the short burst of speed, killer catches up again, you dead hard. This is enough time for you to get to any of the strong chain tiles in the game. Actually this is enough distance to cover the entire map.
Another scenario. Killer is mind gaming you at a very strong tile, like a jungle gym, he successfully mind games you, but nope you have second chance perks, you dead hard into the pallet that he's forced to kick, then you can make your way to the next pallet which should be at least a weak pallet and on some maps it's quite strong, could even be the killer shack. If you just play this pallet, you've wasted about 1 gen of time total for the killer based off of a mistake that you made and you should have been punished for.
When killers make mistakes, they lose the game. When survivors make mistakes it's ok because they have perks to make up for it. Even the infamous noed isn't that strong as it requires you to go through most of the game with 3 perks.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Those 80% were because of poor statistics, because it calculated the Rank after the game. But someone who died will most likely not have been Rank 1 afterwards, meaning that these 80% were not accurate at all.
Also I hope they dont release stats anymore - we have seen it with Killers already. Stats were posted, they were not relevant because Red Ranks were missing. Next time Red Ranks were present, and still there was some issue. People dont value the stats given at all, so I am happy with the Devs not releasing stats.
I already can imagine that a low Survival Rate would somewhat be false because some people claim to play vs 4 man SWFs EVERY game who EVERYTIME escape and do Gens in 30 seconds, but if the Survival rate is above average, the stats are 100% valid and serious nerfs need to happen.
Yeah these are poor statistics, because you can do almost nothing and still pip as a survivor, and this puts TONS of bad survivors into red ranks. 80% survival rate is way too low for higher level players.
As someone who has put about 100 hours into survivor, I can survive about 70% of the time in red ranks / high red ranks if I don't use meta perks and I mess around. I can push that number up a lot more if I try and I use what everyone else is using at rank 1.
-
jUsT pReSsUrE tHe KiLleR
XDDDDDDDD
or play civilization
-
survivors are so disgustingly overpowered in this game, i would put it at about 80/20 in the survivor's favor
There are so many people I tried to get to play this game but they didn't want anything to do with it because this game is so well known to be so heavily survivor sided.
-
survivors are the power role of this game. The balancing factor is that people, on average, are so bad that they give killers free downs, which snowballs the game. It's not really unique to this game, there are cro magnons on every game. The point is, if you are dying, even in solo queue as survivor, that's on you. You can increase your survival rate significantly by getting good. If there's even 2 good players on the team, they can indefinitely run the killer while the two glue huffers do gens for 30 minutes.
Actually, in terms of relative power to the killer, survivors could use a 50% efficiency nerf to bring them in line with the killer. SWF and coordinated teamwork should be the balance point of survivors, which will put good survivors into high ranks where they belong, and the idiots in the low ranks where they belong and then the game could be properly balanced.
-
@VCDiamondFinder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1184298#Comment_1184298
So what do you suggest they do to fix it?
Reduce gen time drastically, like down to 20 seconds
decrease the amount of god pallets and windows to as close to zero as possible
increase drastically the amount of unsafe and mind gameable pallets, which will increase fun for both killer and survivor
decrease map size drastically
nerf the high mobility killers to make up for smaller maps and less super safe pallets / windows
games are still fast and people on both sides are having fun, and there's an emphasis on actual skill and psychology, instead of broken rng. You give people the thought that when they die or lose they feel like they didn't do well and should improve rather than feeling like the loss was out of their control
-
This game is so heavily survivor sided, you have to legitimately be delusional to see otherwise. It's not even an opinion. The devs even said it themselves. They balance the game for new survivors, people that get downed within 20 seconds of a killer finding them. Survivor perks cannot be countered by killers. There are enough pallets in each game to not even need to loop, you can run to a pallet, throw it early, then run to the next pallet and by the time 5 gens are done you will have pallets left over, this doesn't even take into account windows. A large portion of maps have an insane structure in the middle that is full of pallets / infinite windows. A good 50-60% of pallets in any map need to be broken, unless the survivor is stupid and just runs off without playing the tile.
Ideally, survivors should be about 1/4 of a killer in strength at their best. We see good survivors able to hold off good killers long enough for their teammates to do all the gens. Individually, survivors are quite close to the power of a killer, they're closer to 1/2 - 3/4 the power of a killer. You even see this reflected in SWF groups where they just dominate the killer, no matter how good the killer is.
If you are a survivor player and you cannot consistently run killers for 2-3 gens, that is actually a problem with you. You still need to develop more skill and knowledge of the game, the killer is not the power role in DBD, survivors are. There are two killers whose power levels are close to 4 times that of individual survivors, those two killers are spirit and billy. With the way the game is set up, a 4v1, you are not supposed to 1v1 the killer as a survivor, and the problem is that survivors are actually able to do this.
-
@Joelwino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180153#Comment_1180153
I would say Rancor too, it's either a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 or a free kill
Rancor gives the obsession vision of the killer, and in order to get full benefit from it, you have to avoid your obsession all match. There's quite a few conditions you have to fulfill to get the full value of it.
things like DH and DS need just the killer to be playing the game and hurting you / hooking you. You don't need to wait til the end of the game, you don't need to fulfill specific conditions.
also not to mention the killer 'second chance' perks that i've brought up can be countered quite easily, DH and DS aren't able to be completely countered, they give survivors a grace period where they are essentially invulnerable, nothing the killer can do. Spirit fury is rendered 100% useless if the survivor throws the pallet early. NOED is countered just by farming more points by doing totems.
-
A second chance perk gives you another chance of downing someone or evading a hit from a killer. NOED is really the only second chance perk, spirit fury is only a second chance perk if you run enduring with it. Both of these skills pale in comparison to dead hard, NOED is more like adrenaline. Spirit fury and enduring are more like dead hard, but dead hard is much more versatile, and also it requires 2 perks instead of 1.
Just imagine if there was a killer perk that tripled their lunge distance every 40 seconds. It would turn every killer almost into a billy. Dead hard is just as strong. Combine it with another exhaustion perk and 2 other strong perks like DS / BT / Iron will and it's stupid strong.
A comparison would be like running this triple lunge perk, enduring, spirit fury, and NOED. That would be a build that is on par with survivor builds.
-
@Fibijean said:
Kills are the objective. The fact that the Emblem system doesn't reflect that is a flaw with the Emblem system itself - by which I mean that just because the Emblem system (which wasn't introduced until two years after the game's release) doesn't reward kills as it ought to, the fundamental structure and objective of the game hasn't changed from its inception.
Having said that, I do agree with your general point to an extent. I've seen it said (by developers) in the past that Dead By Daylight has no defined win condition, which is concerning to me because the win condition is what the game should be balanced around. Every competitive game has a win condition by necessary design, even if the game designers themselves don't acknowledge it - but the fact that they don't is a problem in my view, because if there's no central axis to balance around, then there is no balance.
In practice, if not always in theory, it would appear that "2K = draw" is that axis, which implies that the objective, or win condition, for killers is 3-4 kills. That's fine, but it needs to be overtly acknowledged as such, because if that isn't the reference point for every design decision made, you end up with things like the Emblem system that don't match up with what is supposed to be the reality of the experience.
Just as a disclaimer, I'm not a game designer specifically, but I am a designer and trained in design thinking and critical practice. I say that not to lend credence to my argument, but just to give context to my perspective. These are just my thoughts, and there could very easily be something that I'm missing here.
The problem is that survivors have an objective, though. Ultimately they should escape, or as their name implies, survive. Escape offers a sweet 5k blood points. Hooking and killing players does offer quite a few bloodpoints, but as it has been laid out, the game itself is centered around chases and interacting with survivors, not necessarily killing them. Hooks are a means to an end, to kill, but it's emphasized to hook survivors repeatedly, instead of hooking them to kill them.
@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179893#Comment_1179893
I agree. We as killers have been conditioned by the system to see 4ks as a win. It is hard to accept 2ks as a win or tie even
But then you get to the end and lose a pip. So it's like, well next time I'm going to play super sweaty. They have created this divide between sides by making objectives so opposed.
I wonder tho, could killers accept more pips, higher ranks, but less kills if system was changed to reward you more for hooking, protecting gennys, being away from hooks?
Or would we always want that 4k?
A frustrating problem I have that adds salt to the wound is to see the 'entity displeased' at the end. Objectives are a good way to tell players that they are playing the way you want them to play. As stated above, objectives also offer a great way to balance the game. Maybe people would be less salty about getting a 0k or 1k if they knew they did the objective, chase and catch survivors, not necessarily kill them. Maybe there would be less tunneling and less camping.
-
@Clevite said:
The emblem system is set up to promote a game style of hooking and chasing survivors. Not necessarily getting 4ks.
Like in the picture above. You have 3ks but only 19000 points. I'm not sure if they suicided on hook or not but that is a rather low score for a 3k game.
I know for killer it sux. But it is similar to survivor at times. Complete all the gennys and get out and you may depip. They want interaction between to two sides. They want hook actions over and over again.
You either play for pips, hence altering playstyle a bit. Or you play for you're own conditions, quick kills or escapes, and f the emblem system.
But that's the thing, the devs have stated, instead of saying they want killers to hook players 6 times, they want, on average, a 2k. The emphasis on killer is to kill and many killer perks are designed to do that.
The point of a ranking system is to encourage players to play the way you want them to play, the devs set the objective. The problem here is that the devs have emphasized kills over chases and hooks. This leads to confusion and frustration among the playerbase. The design of killers also implies that killing is their main objective.
-
You'll have killers that will camp no matter what, but one of the main issues why people camp is that it's too damn hard to kill survivors. Survivors are just too strong and people would rather sacrifice the game for 1 kill than to go through the whole game with no kills.
You may disagree with this, but this is the reason why people camp. Survivors also like to rub it in killers' faces a lot when they're at the exit gates, teabagging and clicking flashlights. Killer can't do anything like that, all they can do is camp and tunnel, which are countered by survivors.
-
reduce map size significantly, reduce the amount of time it takes to do gens, nerf high mobility killers, add more unsafe pallets that can be mindgamed, remove god pallets and infinite loops.
now both killers and survivors are having tons of fun, and games are much shorter, reducing queue times.
-
nurse is statistically where Behavior wants all killers, so she's perfectly balanced. If you don't like it you can play survivor or civilization