UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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Why is Chucky missing? 🤨
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730147#Comment_3730147
That sounds quite busted... Isnt such a grab basically a guaranteed down when the killer is also around? And it would make his zombies even more annoying on indoor maps as they currently are...
Maybe, literally a thoughts dump over a cup of tea, but I'm not so sure it would be broken.
In the current game who honestly gets hit by one unless they take a deliberate hit to escape from Nemesis charging up his power, or if they get REALLY unlucky on something like Lery's? In all the games I've played Nemmy I've maybe seen 3 occassions a zombie scored me a down, and maybe 3 more times where a zombie scored a hit that was actually useful to me. So realisitically a grab would still be a rare thing, even with the red heads charging around, they are slow and still relatively easy to avoid (2 minutes a click is also a long time to create one, at best you're probably only getting 7 or so a game).
So the core idea is that zombies aren't really a threat as they are, just an annoyance that is very easy to avoid. The grab idea would be centered around the survivors making use of the zombie defense items to kill them, which would actually take up less time dealing with the zombie, but more time searching for and acquiring those items. You do have to mindful of resources, use them up and the red heads are coming…. and in the absense of items you have to start using a pallet. This ability to take one out and need to manage resources also makes zombies far more interactive rather than a dumb zombie you just walk around in a circle bored.
The grab meanwhile addresses one of Nemesis' biggest issues, which is that survivors can use zombies to boost away from Nemesis and at the same time deny him infection charges on his whip to tier up. Instead we make it so that if Nemesis hits the survivor while grabbed you can treat it like the zombie doesn't hit at all and it's just a free hit for Nemmy, whether he wants to chage whip or take a health state. If he waits out the zombie grab, then it's not really much different to the normal 1-2 punch you can land as is with zombies, just that being grabbed by a zombie is ALWAYS bad for the suirvivor instead of saving you a lot of the time.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the zombies get faster, so while they are dangerous, it's also easier to lead them somewhere you can kill them like a pallet, and if you have none, there is always one player taking them far away and then jumping in a locker to lure them away from generators while your ally works on them. There is also the fact that red heads can be indicated to Nemmy by a aura colour change, so he watch them in the corner of his eye as far better tracking than zombies currently are.
Overall they become more dangerous, feel like a threat, but are also easier to deal with, and much more interactive, which I'm sure you'd agree would be much more fun for both sides.
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@Memesis said:
I would love an addon pass for nemesis. I would also love more zombies. It's disheartening that my opponents are annoyed/hate the zombies though :(
Honestly I think if they were a little more "oh crap" instead of "oh ffs", they'd be a lot less annoying.
Like maybe if there were a set of changes like: -
- Survivors could find 12 daggers/tasers relatively easily scattered on the walls at within the trial. Can carry them like Flashbang.
- Zombies now momentarily grab the survivor when caught instead of just slapping them and boosting them away infected. Survivors must wiggle free, upon which they are infected/injured if already infected/downed if infected and injured.
- Daggers/tazers will replace the wiggle and stab them to kill the zombie with no negative effect.
- Zombies mutated to red heads who run at 3.4m/s after so long alive (say 2 mins), heightening the need to find a pallet to kill, flashlight stun or locker to evade.
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My theory is that the common trend I see in a lot of horror asyms is they allow you to directly fight the killer and/or they lack a lot of skill expression for chase, which leads to no one wanting to play killer sides.
We all know about the history of DBD and things like instablinds and alike, but killers also had pretty nasty stuff they could do themselves, and fundamentally a lot of DBD killer bullying was not an intended part of the gameplay loop, and is always getting things nerfed to remove it.
In DBD you fight back as survivor by running away longer, there is no concept of killing the killer like in Ft13th/VHS. Ft13th was less problematic because Jason could literally 1 shot kill you, so was still mostly fun, but even despite that, you get issues where survivors get the jumper and Jason is running away from survivors... the gameplay loop is backwards. This scared a lot of people off playing Jason.
TCM you can fight back more in the 1vs1; tackling the killer, stabbing from behind or wrestling then punching in the balls. The level up system lends itself to create some pretty obnoxious fight back mechanics. That is still at least hit and run away... but it's other iissues there isn't much beyond map knowledge in terms of skill expression. A lot of interactions boil down to builds, no skill, and the family need to be much more coordinated than the survivors to win, all the while eating stuns and stabs.... so again no one really wants to play family.
The most DBD has is a flashlight, which can stun/blind sure, but ultimately in the 1vs1 a flashlight isn't gonna save you, and the point is still to run... and all you ever do is hide and run.
That's my theory on why other asyms struggle... they allow fighting the killer directly in their gameplay loop... and it's just not horror if you're chasing the killer.
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729824#Comment_3729824
These are also why majority of Survivors have a burning hatred for Xenomorph i still remember a month or two after release the hate swarm
Ditto, Xeno without slowdown on the tail was horrible... and I myself complained a lot in these forums before it was confirmed to be a bug. While she rode high though you couldn't do anything about getting tunneled. They'd just run back to hook with tail up, and no matter what you tried to do, you were just dead.
Neither you or an ally had time to set up a turret, all windows and pallets were high-risk, and even if you did time it right or mind game to avoid the hit, the Xeno just walked through/around at full speed and lost no distance for wildly swinging at you over and over until you finally go down.
After they fixed that and the subsequent tail hitbox issue, I had no issues with the killer, and she actually became one of my favourites to face. I'm now in the camp that the nerf to her recovery was probably overkill; we never got to see 2.25m/s on a miss while it wasn't bugged, and honestly I think that value is the better one for the balance of the killer.
I rarely see good Xenos now, I play her time to time and she's strong and fun (at least I can feel her potential if I didn't suck at listening... legit might take Stridor to not get lost so often), but a lot of the ones I face end up kinda getting bullied... even though survivors use the turrets like trash... when you do get a good one though, she's awesome to face.
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Xeno has the greater skill ceiling. If you have a good enough aim/reactions to swat down turrets without ever losing power, and you rarely miss survivors over tiles, pallets and windows... then her map traversal, built in detection abilities, and immediately available strong anti loop with no startup gives her a much greater potential.
However if you find yourself getting knocked out of power often, or (like me) you struggle to listen well and deal with her low to ground camera, Nemesis will generally be an easier go for you.
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@Hannacia said:
It's pretty easy to do, but i only use it as the last option before going down. Saves me from the hit sometimes and prolongs the chase. ( i play on PC / Steam )
Its easier to spin console killer than it is a PC killer. Not sure why but that's what ive noticed. Maybe its a FPS thing maybe controller thing.. i don't know, but PC players are faster with reacting.
As a former PC player who now plays on console, it's simply because of the way inputs work.
A mouse movement is controlled with your proprioception (your sense of where parts of your body are relative to you... e.g. so you can touch your nose with your eyes closed). So on a mouse you can move your hand as fast and as far as you want/feel to land the hit.
For controller you hold the stick a direction and the camera turns at a set speed to which you have to let go at the right time. You have no control over the speed of the turn, and when to stop turning is a timing thing, not your proprioception.
The trade off is on console we have an analogue stick for movement, so we have full 360 degree movement whereas PC players are locked on the 8 axis with WASD... but the free movement of the camera more than makes up for this weakness.
At least on console I can control how fast I want to move... Good for memes such as a survivor - zombie - survivor - Nemesis - survivor conga line.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729573#Comment_3729573
It very much is.
Maining Pig is the best DBD experience there is. You see it all. The upps, the downs and most importantly, the memes.
Maining Pig isn't just for DBD... it's a calling in life.
Similarly chose this one as I'm also a Pig main, but prefer the perk icon with the Pig in it over the character portrait. When I unlocked the charm icons in game, I equipped it on all my survivors (and ofc my Pig hooks).
I rarely use Surveillance, but I still try to build around it every now and again. 😁
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@vol4r said:
I do have some experience with 7.5k hours playtime :)
Not doubting you man, when you said "next p100" I knew you were far more experienced than me, I wouldnt dare claim to know more...
Just with you saying you prestige 100 characters as a goal, I was theorising that you may not have as much experience playing a variety of killers.
So my point was merely your killer MMR for Trapper might be comparatively quite low compared to your skill, which you've built on other killers (if you haven't prestiged him a few times at least). Just an alternative explanation why those 3 games may have went particularly well 😁
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@vol4r said:
I wouldn't say he needs so much buffs.
I am making an experiment right now and I play every killer 3 matches to literally choose my next p100 killer.
I played a few killers already and trapper got me the best results so far.
my 3 games on trapper went smooth:
1st was 4k on 5 gens,
2nd was 4k on 4 gens
3rd was 3k on 5 gen (i gave a hatch to unlucky ace).It's an interesting discussion point, cause I learned recently there is up to a 700 point MMR swing per killer from your true MMR.
I play a lot of different killers regularly, and the ones I've played more obviously make up the bulk of my MMR score, I tend to find I have to be much tighter and focused on those killers to put in a good performance. I've played a lot of Trapper, Pig, Artist and Myers, and on all of them if I make a mistake or get juiced on a chase, I'm probably losing the match. (I also have a thing for non-meta stuff).
If I then play a less played killer, such as Wraith, Freddy, Demogorgon, etc, suddenly I can be quite imprecise and get away with a lot. These matches feel a lot more like when I first started playing the above killers, and in Freddy's case, cause I was levelling him for his bloody cosmetics he's now also hit the tier where suddenly its getting quite hard to play him. Wraith as well you win a lot at low levels, I could feel him getting harder and harder every game quite quickly.
Typically speaking I'd say you need to take a killer to tier 5 or so to start getting solid matches on that killer that really show you how they play... I love all the above killers... but now I'm getting to 5 prestige or so, that's when you really start to see the weaknesses of a killer.
Not that I'm denying your experience, but as someone who loves playing Trapper win or lose... he's great against new players, but he's a different animal entirely when you start playing against ever increasingly skilled players... 😁
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It's amusing how with Chaos Shuffle being around, these threads about No Mither are popping up a lot all of a sudden... no one cared 2 weeks ago xD
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Ha, priceless.
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@WarCorrespondent said:
So for Merchant, they have 6x very wide traps essentially. They're wide and easy to set off. The drones downside is that they need 3x triggers on 1x surv to add a claw Trap. Then a 4th to add the Hinder.
Compare that with a Trapper trap, or a Hag Trap, its likely the weakest trap. They're not subtle, they have an orange floor indicator. So for the hinder removal, probably no good. As in, its not a good thing for a merchant to rely on, and they're likely being handed the chase if it occurs.
I think your second point of hacking cleansing a tracking stack is actually kinda cool, and interesting if you can cleanse the tracker dots and merchant's tracking haste right after a laser hits you. This way it would allow a surv making a mistake while they're far away from Merchant to undo the mistake.I like the idea of a stack being cleansed on hacking a drone. The only issue with it is if you just let survivors cleanse a stack for hacking a drone as is, it allows you to blindly run up to a drone, eat a stack then immediately cleanse it by hacking the drone. There is no reason tondodge the beams, and you just reactively remove a stack k when you get hit.
The modification I would make: -
- While you are tracked on the Skull Merchant's radar (12s at base), your ring on the HUD is coloured red to indicate she is tracking you (same for when you are claw trapped).
- Hacking a drone while tracked will only disable the drone.
- Hacking a drone while not tracked will remove a stack.
This gives some much needed feedback to survivors to understand what is going on, you know you are tracked and when you aren't.
As the ability to remove a stack and see the track time is a nerf to Skull Merchant though, and her strength is not where the issue lies, I would increase the time you are tracked to 15s to compensate. This makes sticking around to deactivate the drone to remove a stack more costly, and SM is aware you are doing it... but you can still do it normally.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729188#Comment_3729188
I'm all in to nerf basement Trapper in exchange for making him x10 times stronger in other aspects, completely agree.
I think great solution will be just to allow him put no more than 1 trap in 10 meters radius, when survivor is on hook on a basement. And if Trapper already has several traps near the basement, after hooking survivor, they will disappear and back into Trapper's hands. Similiar to SM drones, but only for basement hooks.That's actually pretty decent just a simple radius around hooks that can't be trapped.
If Trappers hand limit can be temporarily exceeded when he hooks someone within a minefield of traps, not really a big deal given the effort it would take to set it up.
That would justify some serious buffs elsewhere. Of concerned of misuse, there is the locker buff that resolves too.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729151#Comment_3729151
Don't like skillcheck part, because it will punish bad players and do nothing against good. Just Bloody Coil basekit, no need to reinvent the wheel here.
Overall suggestions are not bad, but, i mean, he will be C tier with it? I don't see him higher than B tier EVEN if all his addons from Rare to Ultra Rare will be basekit. That's why i think he should have slight rework. Same logic with traps, same basic mechanics, which easy to pick up as new player, but completely new approach to the gameplay. Killer can't spend 2 buisness days just to have power in current dbd.Yeah... his problem is his power is fundamentally incompatible with DBD. DBD is now a game where map traversal and effective immediate anti loop rules the roost... and Trapper doesn't have either. I can't really think of a rework that would address this problem and keep Trapper who he is.
Is a fair point about the skillchecks being tougher on newer players, and doesnt really hinder experienced players....
My only concern with Bloody Coil being truly basekit is it basically makes basement Trapper completely uncounterable... if someone ends up in basement it becomes literally impossible to get them out. Basement is the one place where Trapper truly comes online... it is very difficult to outplay a basement Trapper... and while I'd love to see him buffed, it's an elephant in the room we can't ignore.
Kinda open to ideas to make it harder to follow after him undoing his traps...
Maybe allow Trapper to spend an extra 1s setting a trap to booby trap it, where if it gets disarmed it injures... Bloody Coil simply applies this effect to all traps.... again I'd consider the 10m rule for this effect where you can't booby trap multiple traps within 10m of each other?
Edt: The more I think about it, the more I like this idea overall... because its possible, survivors can't just freely disarm any trap they come across, as it may cost a health state... and uncertainty is a nice thing to have in DBD.... otherwise noone ever disarm a trap.
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You're not wrong... I have a feeling BHVR won't budge on him, as Trapper is meant to be like an introductory character that is pretty basic... but as much as I love him (hes in my top 5 most fun killers), it's ridiculous how far behind he is.
Given free reign to buff him as I please: -
- Trapper Bag basekit (+1 start trap, +1 carry capacity).
- Grab a trap out of a locker (45s cooldown, furthest unarmed trap despawns/furthest trap despawns if all traps armed).
- Partial Bloody Coil basekit (Hard skillcheck anywhere from 7-10 O'clock (overcharge) when disarming the trap, failure injures the survivor). Already injured survivors are deep wounded.
- Bloody Coil now always injuries, and applies broken for 30s if skillcheck failed.
- Trap self escape reduced to 3 attempts (probability of escape increased to 30%, but attempts take nearly twice as long at 3s).
- Rescue time from trap increased by 66% (2.5s)
- Getting caught in his own trap while carrying a survivor causes the survivor to drop into the dying state (usual wiggle progress) instead of being dropped standing. Trapper take 4 seconds to free himself from the trap (2.5s normally I think).
All of this makes his traps more consistently dangerous and mistakes from survivors are far more potent. If he interrupts a survivor trying to disarm a trap, he can potential get an instant down. All of this makes his traps something not to mess with lightly, and much easier for him to get value out of. On top of that survivors are generally caught for longer, and his traps aren't so dangerous to himself.
With all these buffs, the only nerf I would consider is:
- If another armed trap is within 10m of a trap, the difficulty of the skillcheck is reduced to a medium difficulty skillcheck (Decisive Strike level).
This is to make basement Trapper slightly less potent than roaming Trapper, but is still a buff to him compared to now regardless.
Thing is even with all that... he'd still likely struggle xD
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@Dreamnomad said:
As someone who doesn't like to play blight and doesn't particularly enjoy playing survivor at all much less against a blight, I'm good with whatever nerfs go his way. The way that some people feel about skull merchant, I feel about blight. I'd be perfectly content if he was deleted.
While I don't share the sentiment that he should be deleted, I do hate playing vs. Blight more than any other killer. It's a combination of: -
- You can't juke him like Hillbilly, cause most of the time he can just flick to hit you if his rush ends anywhere near you, which makes avoiding his rush dependent on Blight screwing up rather than any kind of mind game from the survivor being meaningful.
- Because he's 4.6, even if you do juke him, his recovery is so fast you're often struggling to be near any safety to not eat an m1 anyway. This is opposed to someone like Nurse who has a long recovery and then has to wait for their power cooldown after a miss to become a threat again.
- His power tokens are coming back quickly the whole time he is walking after you as a 4.6 killer, so even if you do make safety he will still have tokens on hand. So unlike Hillbilly who is slowed down while charging chainsaw, or Chucky who has a long cooldown if he misses and has to live with being a 4.4 killer, Blight doesn't care, and the moment you're on a longer stretch of the tile, he can bounce and rush after you pretty much on demand with no prior charge up or warning.
- Pallets he can obviously instant break, and he doesn't really care about being slowed down by them because of all the aforementioned points… and those same points also means you can't use the time he breaks it to make distance.
I'm aware all of this is a skill issue on my part, but when you get hits like this, it's very frrustrating to play vs. Blight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyqteRbjoesYou'll notice I didn't look back at him at all, and that was because over time I've gotten used to the timing of killers in chase and found ensuring precise movement when I know that the killer is doing is often preferable. I was focusing on getting my inputs right, and I'd determined through the game this Blight wasn't particularly good. I hugged the right hand side of the stairs, knowing this Blight would run directly at me rather than down the middle and ensuring he could hit me no matter where I went. So I read him perfectly without even looking him… and I still get hit here.
Yes there is probably lag, but if you slow it down to 0.25 or 0.5 times speed, with the direction I fall he must have banked super hard in order for this hit to count, especially in relation to where he ends up. This kind of thing happens all the time vs. Blight… whereas:
- vs. Chucky I'd have more time to get distance.
- vs. Hillbilly this would have missed.
- vs. Nurse I could have doubled back and made it harder for her to land the hit.
- vs. Blight I'm left to wonder why I even bloody try. I don't ever quit, but man I roll my eyes at Blight more than anyone else.The thing that really gets under my skin, is I know and accept I'm dead here no matter what. When I saw the pallet gone I knew I was dead with no way out… even if he missed, I simply don't get to any safety in time to escape. He will just recover and slap me down no matter where I go here… and would you believe I'm fine with that… but the fact I can't even have that momentary win of avoiding the first hit vs. Blight most of the time just makes him so unfun to face…
It just feels crap no matter what happens.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728961#Comment_3728961
There is only 1 injure rule that I dont agree is Yui & Zarina perks that injure themselves would not let killer to interact with them that round. Otherwise, cant successfully interact on the same survivor twice work well for us (I mean, if you fail to hook Dwight because he roll a 5, you can spend 4BP to interact with him again, because you failed to interact with him earlier)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728958#Comment_3728958
I think per power relied on survivors jumping with Prop Crows to gain BP for 3rd move. Spending an interaction just to put a Prop Crows sound really bad on paper. But Im sure it works well in practice. As an injured survivor, you definitely not want to take a single move without Prop Crows because she will keep hooking you for snowball.
I suppose in my experience thus far, it's not very hard to get BP starved as killer, but you have more experience than me, and in fairness each time I play a killer, the first game tends to be rough, but the subsequent games get easier as you figure out their power. I've been meaning to get more games going recently, but haven't got the group together for a while :D
Looking at the rules for Yui and Zarina, that does seem a little fishy…
Is gonna be interesting to see how the Artist plays. Its an odd power.. I suppose her strength is she can keep feeding herself BPs to make use of her powers… Looking at Grim Embrace, it seems like she has a lot of power to be very dangerous near hooks. Catching someone who makes an unhook can give her a massive comeback later on… and of course she gets additional BP from Pentimento for survivors cleansing hex totems.
Seems her whole stiche is managing the BP economy effectively…
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Yeah... as someone who gets pretty obsessive about things I really like and stared reading everything I can about it... I didn't find it too hard to learn... there's a lot of content out there for DBD that you can view for pretty much amy question you have...
However its unreasonable to ask this of your average player. A killer breakdown would be useful, maybe tie it to the archives into the lore, where there's all the information known thus far about each killer, collaborated from the accounts of other survivors... almost like a scrap book of little notes and quips, with then a description of each killers powers.
Could actually get quite neat in how this information is made available to players.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728827#Comment_3728827
trappers traps have had 3.5 second disarm time for years.
Just to be clear and give the benefit of the doubt, what was the intent of this sentence? At the moment it looks your are using Trappers trap disarm mechanic as an example of why the wipe away mechanic is no big deal and not an major concern of a nerf?
… Because using Trapper as a defence for saying its not a problem for the killer is pretty funny 😁
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728935#Comment_3728935
Thing is the perk cost 3BP, with no bonus interaction.
Overcharge give you 2 meaningful interactions (kick Gen and wound a survivor) with 2BP. Most of the time, perks with 2BP add a bonus interaction to the move. Interacting with hooks is not useful interaction for killers.
It would be better if killer interact with a Totem to wound a survivor (+2BP and -3BP) it would be more reasonable.
Though the Designer said when they work on perks, its supposed to work well on the killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JBUPHTT8O9AD/image.png
Still, I dont understand how PainRes would work well for Artist's power.
Unless release Dire Crows force survivors to keep using Prop Crows, giving her free BP to use PainRes.
Bah just remembered you can't pick up a survivor wounded this round... which is still a restriction I don't really agree with... if you make a perfect read, I feel you should be rewarded for it.
So ignore all the 1-2 punch stuff from earlier 😒
We've discussed before how killers feel a little weak... and I think this rule is the heart of it. Survivors can rush a gen by all diving on it at once... the killer can't rush a hook state by diving on 1 survivor in a turn...
I be curious to see how much better the killers perform if we change this rule.
Edit: either that or limit survivors to 2 attempts to repair the same generator each round, to simulate limited spaces around a gen.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728935#Comment_3728935
Thing is the perk cost 3BP, with no bonus interaction.
Overcharge give you 2 meaningful interactions (kick Gen and wound a survivor) with 2BP. Most of the time, perks with 2BP add a bonus interaction to the move. Interacting with hooks is not useful interaction for killers.
It would be better if killer interact with a Totem to wound a survivor (+2BP and -3BP) it would be more reasonable.
Though the Designer said when they work on perks, its supposed to work well on the killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JBUPHTT8O9AD/image.png
Still, I dont understand how PainRes would work well for Artist's power.
Unless release Dire Crows force survivors to keep using Prop Crows, giving her free BP to use PainRes.
Birds of Torment: Place a Crow or Dire Crow from your board in your space. If there is a Crow or Dire Crow in your space gain 1 BP.
I've slowly figured this out while typing this message... this is revision 6. XD
The part that is confusing me is that survivors get bonus turns off Crows... so her passive power only works if a survivors stops on a crow space and doesn't take a bonus turn... I guess you want to throw Crows on gens I suppose to catch survivors as they leave?
You use you power in place of interactions... I'm not sure if I must place a Crow or Dire Crow to get the BP portion of my power to activate... I'd assume not, that seems overly restrictive, and it doesn't make sense to put a crow in a location that already has a crow... but it should say you "may" place a Crow.
The fact the second BP part is a separate statement makes the "may" implied... so my rationale is if at any time I activate my power with no Crows on my board, if there is a Crow in my space, I gain a BP. Thus I would guess I can choose to do this instead of interact and remove that Crow.
This would make sense as the passive portion of her power rewards her for placing crows, and obviously outside of power I can interact with a Crow or Dire Crow to gain a BP, so I can also farm Crows for BP, by moving, using power, and waiting and immediately picking up the Crow for 2 BP a turn.
Between this and survivor using Crows Artist has a pretty insane BP battery, though its risky cause of all the survivor turns.
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@C3Tooth said:
@UndeddJester Have you seen Artist & Jonah new perks? I feel something wrong with PainRes.
- PainRes: interact with a hook to injure a survivor in a connected space (3BP)
- Overcharge: interact with a gen to injure a survivor in a connected space, or the same space. (2BP)
PainRes makes you sabo a hook (which is pointless as killer), to injure a survivor in a connected space, this is pretty much similar to Huntress power, except requires 3BP.
OverCharge makes you kick a Gen (useful), to injure a survivor in a connected space. Means you kick a Gen and injure a survivor in one move, requires 2BP.Or I understand the perk wrong?
Pain Res: There are fewer hooks available too, so it's harder to pull off.
I'm 99% sure the killer doesn't block the hook, it's not on the list of killer interactions so since pain res doesn't specifically state it, I assume it's not a thing… also it doesn't make sense to sabotage yourself, especially for such a high cost. I think it's interacting like they would a hex totem for the effect. It basically means a hook becomes an interactable token for the killer.
In the early game you want to reveal red tokens, not yellows, so if you reveal a hex totem you can gain extra BP, and if you reveal a hook it now an additional useful interactable token for you. If your next turn has guessed a survivor correctly you can 1-2 punch them for a 1 space carry to hook.
So I suppose pain res power is the fact that if you guess right while moving through a hook at any point, it's a 1 space carry guaranteed.
I think it might still be a little on the weaker side, that cost is pretty high... though there are not many 1-2 punches in this game, so maybe the cost is justified. Its also worth considering you'll always have hooks, whereas gens get removed from the board as they get completed.
I think the another useful case is it gives you some more hook camping power. When a survivor saves another survivor with a hook sabotage they move for free, so a survivors turn will usually be:
- Move in to the space
- Interact with hook
- Take the free move to another space
- The player who just came off hook also moves a free space (often these will be different).
If you plan your move into the hook space and there are no lockers or green tiles in the places surrounding the hook, you can guarantee getting a free wound on the unhook player, and you now have a much greater chance of your next move landing on a survivor space you can interact with, either the unhooked player or the unhooker to throw immediately back on hook (though obviously the hook they were unhooked from will be blocked)
Since they also get to interact in the space they move to after the unhook though, there is a chance you get palleted off, or they crow out, or they jump in a locker and can't be targeted...
So I guess overall it makes you a little more potent in the early game, where your first few turns looking for hooks and totems are a little more dangerous, and makes saves while you're nearby also quite dangerous. Might be really nice on a killer with a good BP battery like Hag or obviously Artist herself 😉
I seems they've made Artist purely an info killer and brought the damage part of her kit in in the form of a perk that feeds off BP generation. I guess the cost is high so other killers who don't generate BP like Artist can't abuse it.
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I feel like the most consistent jump scare for me comes from GhostFace... my biggest jump scare though came from a Tinkerer Bubba.
Man appeared from behind a boulder while I was only half looking and made me absolutely cake my drawers revving his chainsaw 5 inches from my face. Hand literally jumped of my controller and I stumbled helpless 3 steps before getting sliced down.
If ever there was a moment I felt truly helpless... that was it xD
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728305#Comment_3728305
This was actually serious with a little bit of humor.
They might have tested something with My Little Oni. I guess a small character would need own animations (doing a gen/healing would be standing upright; vaulting could be like a different kind of climb like small killers use like Onryo, or like Chucky).
I think different body types are OK as long as they fit. I thought of a Dwarf more as another non-human survivor and not as representation for people affected by dwarfism (which is a huge and important difference).
Oh aye, I was thinking of a D&D dwarf, just canonical they only like 4-5ft tall if memory serves 🤔
It was more the fact that like Chucky, a smaller character is harder to track, so you get this question about pay to win if you have a D&D that is identical to survivors, just shorter.
Like Oddjob from Golden Eye was better than everyone else because he messed with people's natural aim vs. the default model.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728333#Comment_3728333
Every outcome is better for me.
If I try to suicide on hook it's better for you to do gen or hide yourself to find hatch, if you are going to unhook me then survivor can follow you and then alt+tab so you'll be both dead.
Not unhooking someone gives you more chance to escape rather than unhooking.
And if you do something to annoy other player then you are worse than player that wants to give hatch to you or just want to leave this game.
Don't start spouting nonsense.
Your own logic says players should try and do a gen, or hide. There are 2 other survivors in the trial. We all individually have to make the decision to do gens for gens to be viable, if 1 of us doesn't, then the others who go for gens are the ones that get found/ die. Even if we all go for it, then its a massively big ask, and we're not gonna get all gens done unless someone loops like a God for 5 generators.
Hiding is also not a better option, cause there are 2 other survivors in the game. If I try to hide and get hatch, then I'm basically in a comptition with the other survivors to outlast each other.
My chances of survival are less than at best a 1/3 chance of being the last survivor and a 50/50 on finding hatch first. 17%, that's abysmal... and guess what, even if I yank you back into the game, I'm still probably ending up in this 17% hatch gamble anyway.
The possibility you might start playing again or get lost and leave my damn game gives me a far better chance of surviving. Every other option to yanking you back into the game increases my chance of survival by either getting a 4th player back or it backfires and I end up in the 17% gamble anyway.
If you can't see that point... all I'm left thinking is "tell me you're an entitled survivor main without telling me you're an entitled survivor main".
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728326#Comment_3728326
to annoy you
aight lemme just bring the killer to you by mistake
Game is dead anyway in a 3vs1, annoying you into leaving is literally the best outcome for me. If you bring the killer to me, gets me out of the game quicker without me having to give up myself, so that gamble is more than worth it.
There is also the numerous times I've pulled someone off hook who is trying to SoH and they actually start playing again.
So my point is there is literally no incentive to me to let someone who doesn't want to play die on hook. It is almost always better to yank them back into the game.
Either: -
- They start playing again.
- They leave and give me a bot.
- They throw the game and it ends fast rather than a slow futile death by attrition.
- The killer spots them trying to suicide on hook, and bleeds team out, which, if nothing else is cathartic.
So tell me, what's my incentive to let them leave? Every outcome is better for me.
If nothing else, annoying a selfish baby who is willing to shaft the rest of their team cause they cant be arsed is fun. Maybe they stop playing DBD altogether and the community is better off for it.... that thought alone makes it worth it.
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Well, you're throwing me under the bus by putting me in a 3vs1, so I'm gonna make sure I can keep you here just a little longer to annoy you, maybe you'll actually DC and I'll get a bot.
Also 30s extra to kill you is 30s extra for my team to do gens. It's absolutely in my best interest to prevent you from leaving as much as humanly possibly.
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Gen Rush to my mind is more a team thing than an individual thing.
It's when most or even the whole team take Commodius Toolboxes with BNPs and/or max charges, with perks to support the rush like Deja Vu, Fast Track, Hyper Focus or whatever to crank the gens as fast as humanly possible.
Is Not really something you can condemn, it's just kinda boring.
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Not that I'm against this in concept at all... and I think is a fun non-serious post...
However to actually think about it because it epuod be cool... in terms of feasibility, how do we do it?
The only thing I can think of requires a gameplay deviation, where the Dwarf is shorter, but cannot fast vault or something... and we're now in the different body types survivor can of worms 🤔
Unless we throw some Entity fabric of reality BS, and said dwarf is given a human form when pulled into the entities realm... but that is not as satisfying...
Tricky problem Dawi!
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Interesting to learn about, makes sense why BHVR have been pretty strong with their changes and listening to community feedback a lot more lately.
Most players who play both sides seem to generally like the direction of game, and the respective mains who only play killer or survivor are salty AF over losing their broken crud. I csn only insgine this group helped with fixing a lot of the nonsense in this game.
The attempts to scapegoat this group with any of DBDs problem in this thread to undermine its influence, despite DBD being the healthiest its been in years is laughable to me. All this sounds like a win for the dev team and DBD to me.
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In other news, as if I didn't need more reasons to love Pig, had this heart stopping moment today...
https://youtu.be/yRb2czuGKcA?si=LrZ1757sYc8f5dfAI haven't been this stressed at DBD for months... there are not many killers that can create such a nail biting moment xD
The last beep xD
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@Strodie said:
Can't wait for her to get nerfed. I hate when Pig can just follow me with an active bear trap and prevent me from getting it off, and then I die to the trap every single time, very balanced. I hope they rework her.
Skill issue.
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I believe the precise reason it is 6m is so it can't reach in basement. Reassurance is a perk that can potentially get 6 uses a map, and is useful against all other hooks in the map.
Basement is meant to be more dangerous, and is the weakness of Reassurance; the scenario where reassurance doesn't resolve the issue.
The perks to combat basement are Camaradarie, Deliverance and Wicked.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727702#Comment_3727702
It is way harder than trying to avoid any other killer... It is not about how to win the game for the team and get 3 people out, as that is fairly simple because the strategy is not strong. But against any other killer you can loop them and you don't just die because a timer is set to 0…i don't see how you would be able to compare these two scenarios... As those other killers you need to at least know how to use the anti loop, whereas this strategy on pig just allows you to mindlessly follow the guy with the trap on.
The difference is still how easy it is and how little can be done about it, against tunneling in general you can use certain perks, but nothing helps you here because your timer decreases nonetheless.
The only way to get out is to somehow live long enough to get the hatch, or make her lose you, which should never happen anyway.
As I said, you're in the hands of your team. A Pig crouch stalking you is definitely beatable if you and your team play well.
What nerf would you propose to guard against this? It's not strong as you say, tends to result in a 3 man out for a halfway competant team, and can be escaped by a skilled player.
The other killers can "bully" you without actively throwing the game. Pig cannot.
Honestly if the Pig wants you near guaranteed dead, crouching after you is not necessary. Put the trap on a survivors head and just tunnel no matter what. Even if they loops for 5 gens, they can't go out of gate, so that's a far more guaranteed kill than this goofy crouch strategy.
What would your idea be for that? Unless your argument is completely gut her head traps to the point of not functioning at all if the Pig is anywhere in the tri-state area of the survivor with one, this "guaranteed kill" argument is not gonna be resolved....
Maybe you have some God reperk to resolve it, but from what I've seen thus far, all suggestions put forward just neuter the Pig completely so that even throwing the game for a kill still doesn't result in a kill... which makes trying to play for 4 kills even worse.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727678#Comment_3727678
Pigs strategy is basically a guaranteed kill, I would not say that those other killers have the same result? Sure chase times on average will be faster, but you can outplay them in chase if you are Good enough, even the best player in the world cannot avoid getting killed by the beartrap when pig chases him the entire time... I don't really think it is comparable.
It is not about being effective or not, but that it leaves the survivor with quite literally nothing to do about it... Unless you have some niche perk that allows you to not leave scratchmarks or what not she will be right behind and you will not make it out.
It's not a guaranteed kill, I just explained how you beat it. It's a hard kill to avoid individually, but no harder than avoiding a Pyramid Head tunnel.
It's a valid criticism that it leaves the survivor with little individual agency to save themselves, they have to rely on their team, but realistically the chance of surviving this is more than a strong chase killer like Spirit or, Wesker, Blight or Pyramid Head just tunneling you off hook normally for the vast majority of the player base. I dunno about your games, but its rare to see anyone survive a hardcore tunnel for I'd guess over 90% of the player base.
The counter play requires understanding the timers and chase mechanics. You can force the Pig to pause your timer by making her stand up to stop you working on a box and pause your timer. If you play to waste as much of the Pig's time as possible, you can absolutely escape and is something that high skilled players prove often.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3727664#Comment_3727664
It is not about the whole thing being too strong, but more about it feeling like bullying towards that one survivor that has no option of making it out alive… As he will either get hooked and hard tunneled with an active head on or dies to the trap. Obviously it is not strong hard tunnel someone for 3 min straight so their head pops…
True enough, but doesn't regular tunneling with Nurse or Blight or Pyramid Head feel exactly the same way, with far less you can realsitically do about it?
The Pig trying to kill you over the course of 2 minutes and 30 seconds in a specific cheesy way, is no where near as effective as being repeatedly slapped down in 20s off hook.
At least with Pig, you can know the strategy to cost her as much as possible for doing it, vs. Blight or Nurse where you also failed to help your team escape as well.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726318#Comment_3726318
yeah, old legion could chase you with the mending timer going down. It's the same thing, you can't get the trap off because it takes time and she will hit and hook for free.
If you are OPTIMAL playing you can get a 3 man out if a pig does that. But i am a solo Q player, usually people are doing a field trip on the map instead of doing gens. When randoms try to help basically you are giving free hits,hooks,slugs, and the trapped guy stays with the trap 🤷♂️
Pig is a slowdown killer, she lacks strong 1vs1 mechanics and instead relies on disorganisation to win, which means like Pinhead, the way to beat her is teamwork. She is good vs. your average SoloQ, but really struggles against high skill SoloQ or SWF players.
If the Pig is crouch tunneling you with head traps, she is not pressuring gens, this does mean you are in the hands of your team, but she is absolutely beatable. It takes 150s for a trap uninterrupted to kill. If she insists on ensuring you can't search a Jigsaw box, she isn't getting the rest of her head traps out or slowing gen progress.
If you managed to avoid her first head trap for just a minute or so, you should have good progress on 2, maybe 3 gens. Ignoring 150s of gen time should mean the Pig is losing 3 generators AT LEAST.
In this scenario its important to know that being downed, or being on hook is the safest place for you to be, where your timer isn't progressing. Waste 70s of her time and then commit to a jigsaw box, no matter if she tries to stop you or not. If she doesnt stop you, you may get lucky and get tbe trap off, but if she does the timer will stop. The time to hook will be another 15s or so, and then you have another 50s to be unhooked, then another 80s before the timer finally pops.
The strat is to basically use the fact the Pig isn't pressuring anyone to rush gens as fast as possible. All survivors leave and the last tries to get hatch.
The truth is you're not likely to survive this scenario .. but you can sure as hell make it virtually impossible for the Pig to win the game.
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I can't think of a perk I want less at base kit for me than WoO.
Makes me actively worse at the game in its current iteration, if basekit would mean I can just switch my brain off and run to the yellow blocks all the time. I'd get so much more bored playing Survivor in this game if WoO was basekit.
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I like this buff... not broken or obnoxious, actually a unique effect that is far more interesting than most healing perk buff suggestions...
The only issue is that this would mean both Reassurance and Better Than New would be the 2 anti camp perks... and both of them would be on Rebecca... 😅
I'd be tempted to pirate this idea and apply it to Empathetic Connection on Yoichi.
However regardless, the losing health state effect on BTN restriction is silly, hooks is far more reasonable for a rather benign effect. There is a part of wondering if you even need to remove it at all... it's 16%, so saves 2.2s on a 16s heal, and 3.3s on a 24s self heal.
Wouldn't exactly be meta defining even if it was a buff you could permanently apply for the rest of the trial...
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Said in several threads, but what is one more... Unconditonal Iron Will and Unlimited Unbreakable in a single perk slot is not anything to scoff at.
No Mithers only issue is you paint a target on your back right from the word go. If you didn't start the trial injured... and simply became broken once injured, It'd actually be pretty decent in the right perk configurations.
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@Raconteurminator said:
I think sometimes people forget how hilariously broken Dracula is. Even when you don't bring specific powers into it, this is someone that moves fast enough to essentially be invisible while also possessing the strength to crumple solid steel like paper (while heavily weakened). He's stronger than the strongest Killer, faster than the fastest, more durable than the most durable. And that's before you bring in the magic and reality-warping nonsense, the power to dominate souls, and the fact that literal Death is his employee of the month. The only way you 'kill' Dracula is with the Vampire Killer, and only a Belmont gets to wield that without significant consequences.
Someone said it in another topic, but Dracula is basically Super Satan in lore.
Heheheh, I was similarly ignorant, but as I looked into it more I realised just how cracked Dracula is xD
So much so it inspired me into thinking if Castlevania Dracula was faced with the proposition of serving the Entity in the trials, likely it would be something he would do out of boredom, and be more of a game where he limits himself to play for his own amusement...
However were such a thing to happen, I can imagine he'd want to test the Entity to see if its even worth his time xD
I'm enjoying reading the responses so far:
- Pyramid Head seems a solid choice, cause Pyramid Head.
- Wesker as the genius tactician is a shout.
- Singularity was a solid entry and well, especially as a backup to Wesker. Assimilating organisms to perfect his form... pretty terrifying potential.
- Spirit I feel is slept on... spirit of vengeance, who can't be killed and can phase in and out of reality... unchained from the Entity's limitations, I think she'd be almost unstoppable.
- Oni similarly I feel is similarly limited by the Entity. I imagine he has effectively limitless potential based on the amount of blood he absorbs.
- Huntress I feel brings a utility to the team. While outmatched in raw power by othwrs on this lost, her skill and precision wielding hatchets, combined with her tracking and survival skills, her experience assessing and bringing down intelligent prey, I can imagine bringing a more perceptive, alternative thinking mind to the group.
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@Vanishlord said:
Guys I managed after almost two years to finally get two of my friends back on dbd!!! I am hoping I can keep them on it since they didn't play it a lot I am hoping their lobbies will be easier. Problem is we don't have any of our stuff because we're on Xbox and all our stuff is on playstation😭Not even my pig 😭
Yaaaaay! But also sadge... hopefully the cross progression features comes through soon 😶
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
So since we have some new recruits, I think it's time to post the ULTIMATE GUIDE TO THE PIG by our Resident Fog Whisperer, Scorpionz. While some things are out of date due to addon and basekit changes, overall the important parts of the guide are still relevant today!
This video was my bible! I played for a week in custom games practising everything he discussed there, before I got the courage to play a real game 😁
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Would actually be a great series if every episode was self contained, like Love Death Robots or something.
Maybe if the film does well we mat see that the Horizon 😁
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726615#Comment_3726615
Yeah I also saw Otz complain about the idea of all traps at the start, there is a clip of him in Lerys where he shuts down the entire exit gate area and there survivor just could not get out...
I see you are a fellow man of culture 😅
Yeah that clip was nutty. I don't always go with everything Otz says, but his takes are usually very good, and the man's experience on Trapper is among the best.
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It would be cool to have a proper rest-api.
Whether BHVR want all that data public is another question though, but as a fan, I'd be interested, even to just make dumb little queries...
Likee how many
traitorsdistortion users manage to escape on average... Or investigate why the hell Boil Over is so popular, when all it does is make the killer mark you for death... -
Amanda of course. Former drug addict searching for new found meaning and purpose in the Entity after failing to resolve her feelings of responsibility and guilt for the death of John's unborn baby, and thus betraying him.
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Hmmm... not many spring to mind...
I keep seeing strange calls every now and again to nerf Xenomorph and Nemesis, when both have some pretty hefty weaknesses and drawbacks to work around... and as someone who tends to see competant survivors face them, they almost always have a rough time 😐
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726551#Comment_3726551
Having to pick up traps from the map just wastes so much time... And some are on the other side of the map and you know from the beginning that you won't go there for the entire match... And there is just no reason to limit Trapper like that, he is already around the weakest killers of the game.
Well I have seen other suggestions to reduce that problem.
The one I have always liked is Otz's suggestion to allow Trapper to grab a trap off out of a locker on a 30-45s cooldown or so and the furthest open trap (then furthest trap if none available) in the map will demanifest.
I play Trapper a fair bit, and the playstyle I like on him is setting up traps in quirky places throughout the map as I move towards traps in the map on my route towards gens. The Trapper bag makes this pretty nice, as you can get a decent web of traps up pretty quickly without spending too much time setting up. The ability to reposition them means they don't have to be too precise, you can trap and go, and as long as you aren't too predictable you can catch a lot of even experienced players off guard woth a long forgotten trap you placed ages ago.
I drastically prefer this over the Trapper sack, where the placement of traps is far more important to ensure value, as they can't be moved, you can't afford to throw out quirky traps, and instead need consistent value. So instead of being fast paced and trying to build a confusing and surprising web, the focus is instead completely locking down 1 area and suffocating survivors in that area and that area only.
I've always maintained that if you give him all of his traps at the start, it naturally pushes him to always just trap the holy hell out of one area and defend it... and even if you don't want to play this way, your natural inclination is to do so... and that is boring.
I'm all for Trapper buffs... but Trapper sack basekit is so unimaginative and encourages such a boring playstyle, I just don't like it.
EDIT: Course you mentioned the locker suggestion yourself, that is fine too... but all traps at the start is the one I'm really not a fan of, and I rather like having a reason to venture out from just trying to 3 gen every game.