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@Eelanos said:
"But why is the attention to "no fun gameplay" so high on survivor side?"
Because it's the side with 40% win rate.
If you're gonna make people lose more than half of their matches, might as well let them have fun even in defeat.
Killers get powers that can bend reality and survivors get broken keys that they lose on death.
Things like Blast Mine are more funny meme perks to complete missions than actual perks to help you win. And while killers get to fly around the map teleporting from locker to locker or ricocheting throwing knives off walls, survivors get a pebble.
So yeah, when the side that's more likely to lose queues only to spend 2 minutes hooked, slugged, camped or incapacitated, you have to think of something to make them not quit.
First of all, this is the "Egg or Chicken" argument.
Do survivors disconnect bcs they lose so often or do they lose bcs they disconnect so often?
Also, its not 40% win Rate. Its 60% Kill Rate on Killers which is a completely different thing.
60% Kill Rate could mean out of 10 Games you win 6 with 4ks and lose 4 with 0k.
It could also mean you get 2 4ks and 8 2ks which is basically a loss for the killer.
And, if you toss around those "40% winrate" as an argument to get survs a more "enjoyable experience" bcs they are losing so often. Why exactly nurse got nerfed if she is sitting on a ~50% killrate? Either your numbers count and survs are too weak and nurse needs a buff or the numbers cannot be taken 100% serious and nurse is something special.
You cant use the numbers if it suits you and ignore them if they dont!
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348407#Comment_3348407
What is the counter play to blast mine? Do nothing? Is doing nothing really playing the game?
thats the point im trying to make.
"Just dont kick gens" is a completely valid argument.
"wait for eruption to pop" or "take turns in repairing gens" against eruption is not valid.
Thats the double standard.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348503#Comment_3348503
First, you always get blinded when getting hit by Blast Mine. That's just apart of the perk
Second, you can still kick the gen afterwards??? Its quite literally just a 3 second stun
its 4 seconds and i have to kick the gen again which makes it almost 6 seconds.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348506#Comment_3348506
The two are not remotely the same and I do not think you really understand that.
Pallet stuns and flashlight blinds ≠ Being Tunneled and camped
- Survivors have 3 hook states before they die, and if you are hooked 3 times at 5 generators remaining, I can see why people would be upset, you are basically out of the game before you can really do anything. And it's not like it's just that one match either, tunneling is on the rise and becoming more common to see. And it is also important to point out that if you play with friends, it can be further frustrating since you are forced to wait out the match, you cant just "leave and go next".
- If you are being camped on the hook you literally cannot do anything for 60 seconds per hook state, and on top of that, the Killer is not inherently doing anything either, I just see it as a waste of both players time unless it is end-game since there is nothing left to defend, it's why some perks deactivate during the end-game, and most people can agree with that.
- Killers do not have a limit to the amount of pallet stuns or blinds. Killers dont have to worry about being removed from the game if they get pallet stunned or blinded multiple times. When you get stunned, you cant do anything for 2 seconds? But guess what, you are still in the game and after the stun you can still do stuff.
- If you get blinded, you can still move and track Survivors, blinding is often just a disadvantage since you lose out on distance by blinding the Killer. If someone is trying to make a flashlight save, I can normally bait them out to get a hit, or just force them to waste their time. By sitting there and waiting to get the blind, they are not doing generators, which means the objective is not progress or progress it a much slower pace than normal, which I am fine with.
So yea, there is a difference in standards, because the two are completely different, you are comparing apples to bananas, comparing cars to roomba floor cleaners, it just realistically does not make sense since the topics have a lot of nuance that you are ignoring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348509#Comment_3348509
Blast Mine is tied to the the first interaction with the generator. So you halfway through the generator kicking animation, you can stop the animation and kick it again to completely avoid Blast Mine.
Albeit this only works if you get the timing down for the kicking animation (it takes some practice).
This has been in the game for a long time, and considering how it hasnt been "fixed" despite there being bug reports for it, I just assume it is intentional at this point.
But now you got a new trick in your pocket to try out. :D
Of course they are not the same and I never said that. This is an asymetrical Game and therefore each side has to be observed differently.
I think you dont get the point Im trying to make!
It is the sole look at Mechanics in the Game, that make progressing towards their objective for the other side harder and harder. Be it kicking Gens to prevent escapes or Stunning the Killer to get Time for the others to finish Generators. It all goes down to the same thing: Making your opponent "not Win" the Game. (Which doesnt mean you are winning the game)
The treatment although is not the same on every side. Which is what Im trying to say. Callouts for "unfun" gameplay (which is highly subjective) is always treated much more valuable on Surv Side than on Killer side. F.E. Dead Hard and Eruption discussion and "wait it out".
"Wait it out" is a complete legit argument on DeadHard but not on Eruption. Why?
Rushing Gens and Rushing Kills aka "tunneling". Rushing Gens is completely fine, rushing kills is not. Why?
You see where I am going. Both sides want to win so everyone should be prepared to face the hardest measures the other side has to offer. Yet Killers get blamed for playing effective and Survivors dont.
- "Survivors have 3 hook states before they die..." If you are hooked 3 Times before one Gen pops you completely ######### up the chase and lost to a killer, that is clearly better than you. With 2 Times Basekit BT which gives you at least 20 sec. of free roam across a map that should have all pallets up you still lost. Isnt the killer allowed to be rewarded for being a better player? If you juke the killer for 3 Minutes its completely fine to escape bcs "you played better" but if the Killer finds a surv that is a worse player he is not allowed to capitalize on the teams weakness? why is that?
- "If you are being camped on the hook you literally cannot do anything for 60 seconds per hook state..." This is the Point where "the other side losing doesnt mean you win" comes in place. No one said that being camped is fun, yet the killer loses 100% if he facecamps you and you are not playing with monkeys. So why is Camping a problem if it is more of a disadvantage for the killer?
- "Killers do not have a limit to the amount of pallet stuns or blinds..." You can still do stuff while being incapacitated? Run Around, getting chased, Getting Info on where totems/chests/gens/basement are, etc. Ofc. if survs prefer to stand infront of the Gen and wait thats essentially not playing the game. But this is not the fault of the perk! Again, Im not saying Eruption was healthy and didnt need a nerf. But the argumentation towards the nerf is just BS if it isnt used on both sides of the spectrum.
- "If you get blinded, you can still move and track Survivors...." like I said above, almost everything you mentioned could be replicated to incapacitation. You are still able to move, get information, chase, etc. you are not locked into place (like through blast mine, Head on or pallets). Still, the argument counts for killers but not for survivors. So double standard which proves my point!
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348503#Comment_3348503
1) Stop kicking the generator that the player is on.
2) Just like Head On, Body Blocking, or any other annoying thing a survivor might do, you tunnel them out asap. Face camp them out if you really absolutely do not want to have it occur again.
Those are the ways we handle it.
Dunno about the other guy,
I recent games I encountered more than one Blast Mine.
How am I even supposed to see who is carrying the perk as there is no animation of setting the blastmine? So I should not kick gens at all?
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@CatnipLove said:
Doesn't Lightborn counter both flashlights and blastmine?
The effect Lightborn gives you doesnt make it worth a perkslot.
As a killer you only have 4 Slots. Flashlights effects are not that impactful either (besides the unnecessary buff to making the timing way to easy and therefore saves to easy).
Its just the fact that robbing you of your sight while you are stunned every 10 seconds is annoying and "no fun gameplay" and has no counterplay to it besides wasting a perk slot which is way to much.
The fact that "just take lightborn" is a valid argument, should mean that "just play swf" or even "just play bond" could be a valid argument against eruption. Yet it still isnt. Why is that?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
The "no counterplay" argument only really holds up when the effect is big enough.
In the case of tunnelling, that's a survivor being denied the ability to even play the game. In the case of flashlights (which do have their counters), its effect lasts less than 5 seconds, and is rarely helpful for the survivor at all.
You got a point about the information given to the killer, but the rest comes off as you just being annoyed.
well saboing a hook with purple toolbox essentially makes the survivor you are carrying immune to getting hooked.
Bcs even without spreaded hook offerings you wont make it to the next hook. So basically all the time you invested chasing and downing this survivor was for nothing. I would call that a big enough effect to be game altering. And it has no counterplay. If you hit a healthy survivor and he saboes, your hit recovery is longer than the sabo.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348407#Comment_3348407
Well, I think in a sense it is fun to deal with. There is subjectivity to it, but at the end of the day, most of these are just core mechanics, you are going to see them because they are fundamentally embedded into the game.
Sometimes you need something challenging to deal with, otherwise the game becomes stale and boring, like imagine if you just crushed a group of brand new Survivors every single match... it wouldnt be fun since there is no challenge involved.
I think there is this middle area where things can be fun for both sides. I enjoy taking chases, I get stunned a lot but I never really see it as "not fun" because it is apart of the gameplay to begin with. Im fine with being blinded with flashlights since it makes me think and listen to where Im going, think about what direction I am looking, and prepare for those around me.
Without it, the game would have no substance, no interaction, no gameplay.
I can go on and on about it, but it's not "I just accept it even though it brings me pain" but more of "I like these challenges, because it makes the skills I learned feel useful" and "if I lose from this, I can take these experiences with me to improve".
I get you on this. Its not that I dont remotely feel the same.
Its just the difference in standards. Everything you said concerning blinds or stuns, could be transported to getting tunneled, camped or hit by eruption. But why is "its not fun gameplay" taking so serious on those occasions and these mechanics need to be adressed and on killerside its "yeah well you need to accept it and get better, its a game mechanic"?
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@Shroompy said:
Everything you mentioned that has "no counterplay", has counterplay.
It's not fun to deal with just like the things you mentioned at the beginning of your post, but they can be dealt with
Tell me the counterplay to blastmine and getting blinded during animation.
Im excited to hear.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345667#Comment_3345667
Killers time is not 4 times the survivors time. That's one of the most silly things i've ever seen go around on the forums and there have been a lot of silly things here
It's more realistic to say the killers time is times the number of survivors on gens time as if those don't get done the killer wins by default
If that number is ever 4 beyond the first 20 seconds of the match you are doing something horribly wrong
Not to mention that if blast mine didn't trigger in a certain amount of time it will dissapear and you have to build it up again where eruption had a joke of a cooldown and sticked to a gen forever untill you get your down
Thinking blast mine and current eruption are even remotely in the same ballpark is the real joke here
Arguing, that Killers disabled time only counts for Survs on Gens is a bit hyprocritical.
Therefore, Surv Incapacitated time would only count if the Killer would chase all other Survivors that are not incapacitated, bcs otherwise the Objective would still be progressed.
If the Killer wouldnt chase or hook, Survs would Auto Win.... WHat stupid argument is that? If the other side doesnt play the Game, you win. Oh yeah cpt. obvious, tell me more!
Oh yeah there is always the "skill issue" argument. Why is there no "skill issue" on Surv side? Every Argument towards balance is the same. Survs suffer under bad perks, toxic killers and unfun gamedesign but Killers just need to learn to play better. Same ######### every time!
Btw. no one said we couldnt argue about the duration of incap on Eruption or a timer on how long eruption stays on gens. But the fact that The core argument of "not being able to play the game" is BS for incap but TRUE for Blastmine (Bcs it COMBINES two effects). One is ok, the other is not.
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I still dont get how 25 sec of incapacitation for the killer to spend time on doing a side objective (kicking gens) is "not healthy for the game", but being stunned, blinded and absolutely unable to do ######### for 4 seconds (which translates Into 4x4 = 16sec surv time) through blast mine (which is gatheres by doing the main objective) is completely fine.
At this point, balancing is just one gigantic joke
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Some Ideas to fix things:
1. Remove the Struggle phases. If a survivor gets hooked, they are able to spectate other survivors and ping/mark different locations (e.g. there is a gen, there is a pallet, killer is there, etc)
2. If a survivor is sacrificed, they can return as a ghost, and do the same. But without the fixed angle of spectating, they can now move freely. But this time, they dont see the killer or anything that has to do with his ability (like traps). They can still ping/mark or set diversions. And therefore assist their team in winning.
3. Survivors earn bloodpoints as a team. All actions get into one BP Pool and its either divided by 4 or everyone gets the same amount. (Depending on the numbers). If someone DCs, everyone (incl killer) gets extra bps.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3332885#Comment_3332885
Just because a swf can beat a killer running a meta build doesn’t instantly mean the game is survivor sided. Sometimes, it isn’t the maps fault, or the survivors fault that you lost a match. Sometimes it’s because you played bad and no one seems to be able to admit that in this game.
I dont mind ppl playing better or outplaying me.
But how is "running to every pallet, pre dropping until you have to brake them and then run to infinites like haddonfield windows or garden of joy main" playing better than me?
Take garden of joy mainbuilding. if you dont ######### up running it as a surv, there is physically no chance an M1 Killer can get you. How is that skill?
like I said, most of the maps are designed around survivors winning. Just like the gen mechanic itself. I mean holding 1 button and ocassionaly pressing another one. How is that skillfull?
Heck even take the latest hud update. Survs get all of those Infos FOR FREE, while killers have to memorize hookstates.
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Dont think they Won, bcs they are better than you...
They won, bcs at a certain skill level, if both sides are equally as good at the game, dbd is designed for survs to win.
Maps are surv sided, time is on survs side, even RNG is on survs side 99% of the time...
And its always the most subpar players that trashtalk the most...
Even the fact, that playing in an swf with trollbuilds could make you win the game against a META killer build should open everyones eyes on how frekin survsided this game is...
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@realflashboss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316905#Comment_3316905
Fancy providing one statistic showing that it's not killer sided? Good luck. There isn't one.
The Devs are targeting a Killrate of 60% on each Killer.
60% killrate means:
Out of 10 Games you either win 2 and draw 8 games or you win 6 and lose 4.
Which differs in winrate From 20% to 60%. Not to mention hook suicides are included!
Garden of Joy, Haddonfield, etc. Are all recent maps. ALL of them have loops that can be run indefinately (if done correct) without any mechanical chance for the killer to catch the survivor without them doing a major fuckup.
So they are designing maps, with the technique of looping in mind, that have places where the killer cannot catch survivors...
In the last "killersided" patch. Survs got one of the most used perks ingame into their basekit in a cranked up version.
Dead Hard, one of the most rewarding and broken perks, stayed in this broken Form for over 6 Years!
I challenge you to name ONE Killerperk that stayed broken for as long as dead hard.
As well as ONE Patch that consisted Basekit Killer Buffs without handing out compensation to survivors...
You have to be really delusional to deny that this game is and has been survsided for years!
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@Moxie said:
Small buff to Knight and nerfing the most Survivor-sided map in the game.
I'd say it's pretty fair
What "buffs" to knight? That is more like a QoL Change nothing less. Killer is still garbage and still W-Shiftable. Guards are still technically not able to catch survivors. Simple maths.
Most Survivor sided map? You ever played Garden of Joy? The main building in Eyrie is still untouched.
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@JediWithASniper said:
As a PSA, I’m a survivor main that plays a bit of killer from time to time. I have wanted basically this exact update for quite some time as far as bringing solo queue’s quality up a bit. However, this will be a massive buff for survivors, and I think it’s effect may be being underestimated. I predict that killers are about to start experiencing mostly 1k’s due to this buff. So the question is, how will killer’s be buffed to compensate?
It will be pretty much 3 Months of Dead Silence. Then there will be a patch where every killer will get 0.002 sec faster Hit CDs, while Eruption will be Butchered, Survs get Basekit Unbreakable (or any other Perk. Bcs Survs always get compensation) and God Loops like Eyrie Main Building, Garden of Joy, Haddonfield, etc keep existing.
Welcome Back to: "Every Surv Mistake will get forgiven but Killer Mistakes cost you the Game META"...
Just like the Time Dead Hard existed for YEARS... xD
PPL still trying to argue this game is killersided...
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The fact, that players even realistically think, that UB Basekit is a good Idea and should be implemented demonstrates how freakin biased this community is...
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Oh yeah, maybe this is bcs killers have 4 Perks and Survivors 16?
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Simple Solution:
Matchmaking only allows a maximum of 2 Survivors Premade. The other 2 must be Random.
If you queue up as a 4 Man, you only get to use every surv Once, every Perk/Item/addon Once and the Loadout must be selected before queuing.
If you get the advantage of communication, you lose the advantage of soloQ Players.
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@RiskyKara said:
I know this isn't necessarily an original take but it's definitely something I've been noticing. There's this constant gameplay loop of a killer getting their first down, leaving to kick gens, then returning to tunnel out. In my observation that's because Eruption only works if you can snowball kills, and tunneling the injured survivor out is the quickest way to keep Eruption proccing.
This feels like a problem to me because it denies survivors any meaningful gameplay where their choices aren't significant at all. With constant incapacitation (sometimes coupled with pain res/dead mans switch.) It becomes this wretched game of just staring at a generator just waiting to do something meaningful only to have any meaningful contribution stripped from you entirely.
It's not only boring, and annoying it's also very powerful. This is combining three of some of the most powerful concepts Killers can play with. Tunneling survivors out have the benefit of turning the game into a 3v1 incredibly fast. It also means survivors are likely to kill themselves through trying to be altruistic. Additionally this combination of perks regresses gens then simultaneously makes sure that survivors cannot do anything for extended periods of time.
Now that's not to say that Killers shouldn't get powerful tools, they absolutely should. But I believe that it creates this unhealthy gameplay loop where in both instances (Being the tunneled, and the other survivors in the game) survivors are just resigned to accept fate. This is especially true in solo queue.
Unfortunately, I don't really have any suggestions or ideas on how to improve this. I've found myself rolling my eyes when I see someone hard tunnel on their first kill because "Oh I bet you have eruption don't you?" and voila, in every single case the past few days they do. As a survivor main it is getting to a point where I'm feeling the urge to just kill myself whenever I see another tunneling eruption player or doing something more meaningful with my time. I probably should do either, after all this is just a game and if I'm not having fun why am I still here. Force of habit I suppose.
Let me sum this up:
Gen Regression/Blocking/Incapacitated makes the Game unfun for Survivors bcs they cannot tunnel their objectives (Gens) and therefore needs to get nerfed, so survivors can have fun again.
You are adding the argument, that playing these perks encourages the Killer to tunnel his objective which is also unfun for survivors and is therefore another reason to nerf that playstyle.
So basically, the Killer is playing against you, that is unfun for survivors, so it should get nerfed.
You sure you dont want to play a PvE Game instead?
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@Jinxed said:
Honestly I wish they'd just give killers bbq as basekit and make the hooked survivor teleport to a random distant hook, unless it's basement. No directional notification for the unhook would also be nice.
As long as killers can tunnel they will tunnel, the only way to stop it would be to make it an unreliable strategy and a time waste. As it stands it's way too effective, especially against new players and solo.
Instead of making tunneling harder and harder (What happened in the last patches and, surprise, didnt work) make NOT Tunneling more rewarding. Give Smth like a better basekit grim embrace....
As long as one Dead Surv cuts 25% off the team efficiency, it will always be the most valuable strat. No matter how difficult you make it.
Ofc survs get very creative in making killer gameplay harder and harder as it already is... Thats until the point when no one will want to play killer bcs playing surv is almost a guaranteed win like SWF rn...
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296670#Comment_3296670
killers dont put survivors in lockers, what are you talking about?
Reading is one part, understanding the other.
"Overhaul" means completely reconstructing the Game.
Putting Survs into lockers was done in the PUBG DbD Event. Would be a nice addition to the game and would give it some more stratetig depth.
The Point is: we need to get away from Balancing around killing ppl asap. Bcs otherwise tunneling will always be the most efficient strat to fight survivors. Tunneling cuts their efficiency by 25%. Instead of counting "hook States" switch to a point system. Where different amounts of points rewards every side with different things or punishes the other side like mentioned above.
Imo this would be the only way to get away from tunneling.
There need to be more objectives to the game, especially on surv side. Just holding m1 for 90 Sec 5 times is way to easy and exploitable.
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Overhault the Game mechanic as a whole.
Get to a Point system:
Killer has to get X amount of points to start the EGC. Survs have to get X Amount of Points to Power up the Gates.
Points for Killers are granted for: Hooks, Hits, Downs, putting survs in lockers, etc. (F.e: Putting Survs in Lockers gives less points, but doesnt show the Aura to all Survivors over the whole map. Aura of the surv in the locker gets wider the longer he sits in there, kind of like noed aura). Hooking/Downing the Same Surv over and over again gets less and less points.
After amount X of Points, Survs get Penalties (slower Repair/healing/cleansing speed), After Amount Y Killer gets the ability to mori.
Survs get points for: Cleansing Totems (more for Hexes), Healing, Repairing gens, Being in chase with the killer, Interacting with the Killer (Stunning/Flashlight Saving/etc.) Doing the Same kind of action repeatedly (e.G. just sitting in the Locker, Head On and Flashbang) gets less and less points. Just doing Gens gets less points (Therefore rewarding exploration) Maybe we need more Objectives than just gens/Totems... (Find the Door handle for the Exit gates, find Screwdrivers for the Gens, stuff like that...)
After amount X of Points, Survs get the ability to insta open chests and new chests with better items spawn. After amount Y of Points Hatch Spawns closed, only survs can open it, etc.
The Survivor, that consecutively gathers the most points, turns into the obsession. Downing and hooking the obsession, grants bonus points to the killer, therefore incentivising going for the stronger players. Kind of like a "bounty"...
This is, ofc just a rough concept out of my mind. This is not taken for absolute and ofc. requires to completely rebalance the game...
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@StarLost said:
10 minutes sounds like hyperbole. I know that even watching tip top streamers, likely MMR capped, they can find a game in less time than that.
Even playing at the weird hours I do, the longest I've waited is...maybe 4 minutes.
Here's the issue though. It's not a balance thing. It's a psychology thing.
- Survivors were ridiculously overpowered for years, especially in SWFs.
- It's only recently that some of the biggest exploits and busted perks (spots on the map where you can't be picked up, pseudo-infinites, DH etc.) have been fixed.
- BHVR have a history of balancing survivor and killer perks on a different standard.
- Survivors have always been notoriously BM, to the point that teabagging from the exit gates is more normal than not.
So...yeah. Killers do tend to have a bit of a chip on their shoulders. It's not great, but it sort of is what it is.
Killer is easy, if the Survivors dont play together.
Instead of making Killer Gameplay harder and harder, maybe we should make "Playing together" a bit easier?
I dont really get why everyone implicates that Killer is "Stronger" than survivor? If that was the Case, SWF couldnt be busted...
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The logic in this community is beyond anything you can believe lmao...
"Queues for the Side that only has1 Player are longer for the Side with 4 Players so there must be an imbalance in Players" ... Yeah sure, well combined Sherlock...
Oh and Survivors are not playing the Game and Quit bcs they lose, so better nerf the Killers that are quite literally getting destroyed in at least decent lobbies... Not even talking about broken SWF xD
This is beyond any reasonal discussion... Nearly everytime a Problem gets adressed, its always "Nerf Killers/Killer Perks"...
Ridiculous!
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@Aaronseuk said:
What is it with people playing so terribly with this new (I think awful designed killer) killer!?
I have NEVER seen so much camping or tunnelling in this game, it’s pathetic.
and continuously dropping guardians around hook is really not in the spirit of the game.
PLEASE, if you play knight as killer, play with some integrity. It’s making my friends and I not want to play anymore.
Let me just translate this:
"Dont play the Killer to its strength so I can have easier wins, bcs me and my Friends dont like to put in the effort. We want to play M1 Simulator. Thank you"
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290575#Comment_3290575
Hook sabos? Who is doing hook sabois in solo q? Like it happens once in 100 matches, it's mostly for throwing game and for it to work it requires COORDINATION
OTR - the perk that was nerfed to not work end game (when you actually need it the most and the perk that does not stack with BT / endurance so if the killer wants to tunnel you OTR won't do ######### lmao - this is actually clear indicator you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to survivor side of things
BT is not even used anymore and if the killer wants to tunnel you they will, DS nerf made sure of that, yes it was step in the right direction to not get downed when unhooked, but if you think it helped people not to get camp and tunneled at 5 gens it did not ( I am not even saying this as a negative or a positive, the killer can play how they want but this is a fact)
And once again none of this has anything to do with what this thread is about, you are purposely throwing us vs them arguments about how ''OP Survivors are'' and listing some other things in the game which have nothing to with the thread
What are the ways to outplay Eruption without comms?
In 10 Games i get around 2-3 Hook Sabo plays.
Coordination? Alexis Toolbox gives you a guaranteed sabo even if the killer hits you. no Counterplay possible. What kind of coordination is required here?
Even Flashlight saves have been made so incredibly easy that there is no Coordination required...
OtR: Oh well the perk, that doesnt require any active doing from survivors besides equipping it (which is hard, i get it...) is terminated in endgame? Oh how ######### unfair if it carried you through the fkn game bcs otherwise you wouldnt have reached endgame... Oh and you dont get the speedbuff of BT when OtR is equipped? really? Check your facts! What the heck do you want? Endurance stacking like on PTB? Where survs could have 4-5 Health States? Are you really trying to justify that? Just open up a forum post requesting an AutoWin Button bcs the killer dared to look at you... Thats just a joke rn...
BT-Still gives you distance. For what? A skillcheck. You complain about a perk, that takes effort to consecutively apply on all gens, yet all the perks you mention as "nerfed" still work and require little to no effort and still provide massive value... Double Standard!
Survivors are not "OP". I never said that.
I said, the Game is heavily survivor sided. That is a HUGE difference! The more stuff you write, the more I understand that you dont get this difference, which makes any Balance discussion with you obsolete...
Your thread is crying about a perk that is carrying killers, while the other side has tons of perks carrying. It is about balance. You cannot strip one side of all their possibilities to play efficiently while the other side gets handhold and pampered all the time. Its about balance. But again, following your argumentation, you lack the game knowledge to understand.
I wrote a post about that. Again, you dont read, you dont understand. This is going nowhere...
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290594#Comment_3290594
The point is you are supposed to be giving 'counters' to eruption to somehow prove irs 'balance' as you were telling the other user yet none of the things you mentioned actually counters this perk.
In 1, you rely in luck and gen RNG. And being matched against a killer who does not try to defend a 3-4 gen area the moment he spawns. So not a counter.
In 2, you proposed an impossible method to know when a teammate is down and then said one should take a guess. Not a counter.
In 3, you proposed a method equally as bad as being hit by eruption, to leave the gen. And then you said you should get hit and take the time to do something else, which is still bad as incapacitation does not let do anything.
In 4, you are not even proposing a counterplay, just saying 'get hit and do something else' while incapacitated. More of nothing.
In 5, you are proposing every survivor to massively overperform in chases so that eruption never go off. Saying something like "survivors looping 3-4 gens is standard" when that situations are the extremes ones, and fully reserved to SWF which are not the ones suffering from eruption.
Why do I have to give you counters? I gave you opportunities to play with the cards youve been given. If you want to walk that way, whats the counter of Dead Hard? Whats the counter of OtR? Waiting? Chasing someone else? In both cases the Killer is losing time. So its not a direct counter. If you argue around that, nearly every Perk has to get reworked bcs there are no "direct counters" to them...
1- if you have bad RNG you complain. Yet, if RNG is on your side, e.g scourge hooks are very miserable placed, hexes spawn near survivor objectives and get immediately cleansed, you take that and call it a day. how come so? Even tile spawns are RNG and 99% in favour of survivors. Havent seen anyone complain about that? its RNG thats the whole point of it... You cannot complain about a mechanic if it is not in your favour, yet if its in your favour its fine. Either you complain about RNG as a whole or not at all. Just "bad Gen RNG" is completely onesided!
2- If it is Impossible, how is it that me and a lot of other players do it regularly? I dont have a problem with erruption as survivor. And I exclusively play soloQ. Tell me how this works?
3- that is the point. If you dont want to get hit by erruption, method A. If you get hit, Method B. Its called adapting. But according to the mass DCing after DH Nerf, I get that most Surv mains cant adapt to the simplest situational changes. Everything outside of holding m1 and Shift+W seems to be to much to ask for...
4- I told you about 10 things you can do while being incapacitated. You dont want to do that. Its your problem but stop complaining then. If you dont have any use for information I suggest you got a lot to learn in playing survivor...
5- Overperform? By running in circles through spots survivors fit through and killers dont? by running infinites that technically are not possible for the killer to win if run correctly? ######### are you talking about? do you even have more than 100hrs played as a killer?
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290456#Comment_3290456
First of all, we are talking about counters to eruption. Now
1- if you depend on gen RNG or be matched against a certain killer, then it is not a counter. So saying "dont get 3 genned" is meaningless when you have good chances to be 3 genned without the survivors' fault.
2- What i am tell you is that, especially in soloQ, is impossible to know how long can a random teammate last in a chase because it is required for you to know an excessive amount of factors that you cannot realisticaly measure. As i said before, chases depends on map, how many pallets, looping skills, killer perks, survivor perks, luck, items, killer addons. It is nonsense to say that you can see all this and correctly measure the length of a chase while repairing on other side of the map.
3- But the problem is not simply "losing time". It's the amount of time you lose for a single activation. Other popular perks like pain res makes you lose 10-15sec per hook but eruption punishes you for a whopping 40sec, and leaving a half repaired gen to find a new one can set you back even more.
4- what use can i do with the information i get AFTER eruption activates?
The point in 2 is getting info BEFORE you are hit so you can prevent the hit.
5- Looping the killer for 3-4 gens is the standard? Really? that is just delusional. If survivors could pull that off as frequent as you make it sound, kill rates would plummet. We would be talking less than 30% killrate
1- This is the Point I make throughout this argument. You have to take a view of the bigger picture of the game. Erruption is not the Problem. The whole imbalance of the game is. RNG in this case is a huge part of it. Complaining that, sometimes, you get harder games bcs of bad Gen RNG is hilarious compared to the other side, that gets ripped of many Perks/Playstyles (namely hexes) bcs bad RNG will completely strip them of their Perks without any chance of counterplay. And thats just one example...
2- It is impossible to pinpoint exactly. I get that and that is the point. You get an estimate. You get to read Players. Killers do this all the time within split seconds (e.g. range killers aiming and reading survs dodge paths). Takes time, takes practice but rewards.
3- Exactly and that is the point of the perk. Just like BNPs and Prove Thyself can finish a gen without the killer even finding the first survivor. If you know the Killer has erruption and you get on a gen that is regressing you basically know what you have to expect so you either got the chance to wait till your Teammate is down OR you gamble and repair and hope hes good at looping. Its not like you dont have the choice. And like I said, there are a million things you can do while youre incapacitated. But most survs prefere to stand infront of the gen and wait. This is YOU adding way more value to the perk than it has. You all complain about missing information you dont have. Yet if you have the time to gather this information you refuse to...
4- If I have to tell you, what to do with information like remaining pallets, gen spawns, totem spawns, tile spawns, exit gates, basement spawn, etc. I suggest you do some research...
5- I dont know how often you watch streams or spectate other players, but literally every game without corrupt or deadlock means literally 2 gens down before your first hook at bare minimum. As survivors throwing millions of map offerings like eyrie, giddeon or garden of joy with infinites and recently fat shaming spots that turn good loops into god loops, 3-4 gens before your first down becomes more and more common. Which makes Erruption even more important. Bcs these 40 seconds may make the difference between lose or draw or even a win...
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290460#Comment_3290460
exactly one killer perk should not be able to have this much impact on the match, just like how one survivor perk should not be able to (so old dead hard, old ds etc)
I do think Eruption carries the match and changes the outcome way too many times, hence the need to make this thread and discuss it with other people.
As far as I am aware all crutch perks have been nerfed and changed on the survivor end, people only got better with using new DH I guess, the survivor meta does not exist anymore that is consistent and reliable like the combo of ds/dh/unbreakable/iron will was
SWF being able to abuse the game and rig it in their favour is a problem but I am not really sure how does nerfing them exactly solves the solo q problem I am discussing here so your constant mention of swf is really confusing me
I do not want easier games, I actually have no problem facing Blights and Nurses (literally made a thread about it), my only problem is this oppressive perk making games super frustrating and feeling like I am constantly being robbed of my time with nothing I can do about it aside from playing with other people on coms
Oh really? you wanna talk about hook sabos that make ppl not hookable if executed right bcs their wiggle status is not regressing anymore? Basically making them Immune?
You wanna talk about OtR which gives you undetectability from EVERY aura reading perk/addon in the game, makes you non hearable in close proximity AND gives you endurance for 80 FKN SECONDS? and all that for LOSING a chase? Thats not even an achievement...
You want to talkt about one of the strongest perks in Surv Meta, Borrowed Time, which got Enhanced AND gave to all Survivors for free?
Shall we continue down the list of perks that can Change the outcome of the game in survivors favour by simply having them? no skill involved?
At this point, Its really hard for me to take you serious...
Again, for the third time, I NEVER said to nerf SWF... NEVER... are you even reading and understanding what Im typing?
There are several ways of outplaying Erruption in Solos as I mentioned. But you dont aknowledge that as it is not easy enough. It takes practice and game knowledge but you dont want to get better...
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290184#Comment_3290184
why are you even talking about those perks omg, sure it's a good combo but literally irrelevant to the discussion
Also sure 3 gen can be controlled in solo if you say so, the problem is not even 3 gen the problem is this perk and its lack fo counter for solo q players (please let me remind you that in the gen kicking meta chances are killer will at that point of the match kick all the gens regardless when there are since there are few left to kick)
Also, lets remember that we are in solo, you are at 90% of the gen, someone is running the killer straight to you because they do not know you are there and then killer stops kicks it and what then? Just leave the gen forever? Don't you understand how stupid that is, even if we take other gen kicking perks out of the equation
the struggle and defecltion to admit solo q players are literally getting ######### on because of this perk and only them and that it's change / nerf would truly help the weakest role in the game that is also the majority is truly sad
these people are not even satisfied with their 95% win against solo q players they want their 100% win rate 😂
Your Title literally complains about a Killer perk that "carries" them through games.
You cannot complain about ONE Killer Perk that carries while the other Side has COUNTLESS Perks carrying them, for years!
You want easier games! Just admit it at this point...
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290143#Comment_3290143
1- like getting 3 gen did not depend on map and killer. If you get a map where 3/4/5 gens spawn together, good luck with not getting 3 genned
2- what? How can you even predict that? I had games where i could loop the killer for 30 sec, and then for 1min or 2 min after. The chase duration can vary by map, pallets, killer and surv perks, looping experience. The amount of factors and possibilities you have to consider is enormous.
3-And that is the problem with eruption, you either lose time getting hit by something you cant predict, or you lose time abandoning your half repaired gen so that you can avoid being hit. And as the match progresses, you are exponentialy losing the chance to "go for another gen" as by endgame it is common that the 3 gens remaining are kicked.
4- That is the same as going 'spectator mode' as you cant do anything anyway.
5- and? This game is balanced about survivor getting downed eventually. And you dont need every survivor to be a god looper because of one overtuned perk.
1- Like I said earlier, thats RNG. Its not always in your favour. But if you play surv most of the time, its more often in your favour than not!
2- So youre telling me that you could estimate the playstyle of your teammates better over time and with experience and therefore get out of the way of erruption if you have game knowledge? Oh no what a bad thing!
3- You lose time, exactly. Thats the point. And why is that bad? There are tons of perks that make you lose time on both sides. You just have to know how to use that "lost" time the best you can. If you dont have a 3 gen and there are more than 2 survs remaining it is practically impossible for the killer to keep all 3 gens kicked while chasing a survivor without one of the gens getting popped.
4- You say so. Under 2 you complained about the information you need to counter erruption, but here you prefer to not get information at all bcs why exactly? You dont want to get out of your way to win. You want to hold m1 for 90 sec and thats it....
5- Right, eventually. In the current state of the game, looping a killer for 3-4 gens is not a "rarity" its the freakin standart. With the amount of good loops/pallets and 2nd Chance perks you are really bragging over one good killer perk that requires time and effort to play around?
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290188#Comment_3290188
And I would absolutely say that there are many survivors who have escaped even though they probably didn't deserve to just because they queued up in a group. I'd rather those extreme advantages be lessened for both sides. I don't want to have to face a strong SWF using the Crow map just as much as I don't want to face Eruption. Both give undeserved advantages and wins.
Obviously there are some things the devs can do to weaken SWF without weakening the already super weak solo queue, like making items and perks not stackable, or even restricting the number of perks a 4-man can use. I hope they do.
The thing is, I don't see any pushback when people say SWF is too strong. It is fact. It should be fixed. But in these eruption threads, and in nurse threads there is a fair amount of pushback which doesn't make much sense. Both sides have broken things. The sooner people accept that and try to alert the devs the better for game health.
But this is the point. You will never get out of the circle of "This is to strong and that is to strong" if you dont balance SoloQ and SWF.
As Butchering SWF to a point where it feels like SoloQ is not an option, the way to go should be Giving SoloQ enough information and abilities to communicate to alleviate the difference between SWF and Solo.
From there it is WAY easier to balance Killer and Surv perks/addons/abilities as you dont have to think about the fact that one have a ton of information and the other doesnt.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290137#Comment_3290137
please stop quoting me with your deflections, I am not here to talk about dead hard, SWF or differences between sides
I am talking about solo q, the mode me and most of the other players base plays, SWF has been broken against most killers since the game started and it's a completely different topic that I really do not care to discuss in this thread
This is a pure fact = you cannot tell when your teammate will go down in solo q because there's no way to, bond/empathy will not tell you this
This is the opinion that most of us share - because of the mentioned fact eruption makes the game for solo q players unfair and oppressive because the punishment it gives in close matches is way too big and titles the side way too much in killer favor when otherwise it would not without anything that can be done against it
(once again before you deflect I am not talking about bad teammates that will go down even if the killer is perkless)
your clear PTSD of losing 1 match a month against a good swf and projecting this on refusing to understand why solo q survivor role sucks while probably stomping on those same solo q players all the time really does not interest me
all of this while I mentioned pages ago that Eruption against SWF is useless so SWF was not even taken into consideration when this perk was changed obviously lmao
I quote you as often as I want. And as often as you write that BS that you do!
This is exactly the point. YOU are talking about your PoV, viewing it out of YOUR angry surv main angle and nothing else.
As long as you dont take 2-3 steps back and view the bigger picture, you wont even be able to scrath the surface of a balance discussion. You got tunnel vision, thats it...
The opinion that "most of us" share? I doubt that. Just bcs you and the other surv mains that barely play any Killer games at all got the time to cry over reddit and forums, that doesnt make you a mojority. Just bcs your voices are loud doesnt mean you are a majority in numbers. As long as there is no statistical evidence of that matter its just your subjective view of things. nothing more nothing less!
You obv didnt even understand what I wrote. I know that soloq is frustrating at times. But the solution is not nerfing EVERY usable Killer Perk into the ground. (like ruin/pop/etc) And its not only SWFs, like I said already, even competent SoloQ Survs are almost undefeatable if not matched with an S-Tier Killer.
So how is my "PTSD of losing 1 match a month against a good SWF" less worth than your "PTSD" of being incapacitated for 20 secs bcs you clearly fcked up ingame? Again, Hypocrisy!
Your putting your fun and your enjoyment over the others while expecting THEM to care for you!
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290143#Comment_3290143
"Dont Get 3-Genned"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ESU3D0T0Y51I/screenshot-28182-29.png
Killer spawned right by a 4-gen and never left it the entire match (generator at the loop I am hooked at, generator by the rock to the right, generator in a loop further to me left, and a generator by mini shack). How is it my fault when they refuse to leave the area since the start of the match?
Worst part is, this happens so often. Ive been having A LOT of matches that play like this. Trying to break the 3-gen does nothing since either way you are still 3-genned. But again, dont sit here and say that is it always the survivor's fault, because guess what, sometimes it actually isnt, I know, a hard concept to understand.
(Also no, the Spirit was not phasing either, I was being camped on hook since all the generators were visible from her location.)
Ask Killers how often they play hex builds and survs spawn immediately near their hexes, without ANY chance of the killer to defend them.
Is that fair or fun? certainly not! Is your situation fun? ofc not. But its RNG sometimes its in your favour, sometimes its not.
Most of the time it is in Favour of survs. Simply by the fact most bad RNG doesnt even affect survs that much.
Multiple generators spawning to close is literally the only one that is really affecting.
Use the new energy perk of vittorio. Pump it up at the second to last gen and release it in the 3gen, it really isnt that difficult.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290143#Comment_3290143
2- If I get down in 20sec in chase, means my teammate should stop doing Gen after 19sec because Im bad at loops. But for some luck Im able to make a 60sec chase. Which mean my teammates should wait for 41sec to not get 25sec Incap?
3- If my Gen A is 60%, I should go for another 0% Gen B, after I do Gen B 60%, killer passes by and kick Gen B, so I should go to Gen C 0%?
4- I realized I should not making explaination after reading this.
4- Correct, you shoudlnt have replied. You dont want solutions, you want excuses!
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@BenSanderson55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288963#Comment_3288963
Then please enlighten us on how to counter it off comms. Dont do gens right? lol, more like people defending eruption need it in its current state to actually win a game, because camp and tunnel not enough.
- dont get 3 genned
- check how long it approx. takes for your teammates to get down. if someone gets down in quick succession after the 1st hit hes probably a bad looper
- if a killer is chasing another survivor you can see if he gets injured, if youre sitting on a gen he kicked, go search for another or wait until the other surv is downed.
- if you get incapitated by errutpion, go search for other gens, check where exit gates are, search hexes, make way to the hook, check which tiles are still up on pallets, check where basement is, get freakin information! If you decide to stand at the gen for 20 sec and look at it, crying about how unfair erruption is, thats your choice...
- maybe get the killer to chase you next? so others can do gens, bcs you are actually a good survivor and youre not going down so fast right? bcs you had time, to check for active tiles, you are able to loop the killer so good, that your teammates can finish the errupted gens :)
Surv Mains crying for every effective killer perk to get nerfed bcs they still cannot win with all the handholding the devs give them.
Do you even want to play the game? Or do you wanna `watch the "I Win every match" Simulator?
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289405#Comment_3289405
why are you deflecting and talking about SWF, yes I literally wrote that the perk is useless against swf, it does not change the fact that SOLO Q - THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE literally cannot do anything about it and that it's way too overpowered and unfair towards the weakest role in the game, either nerf it or help solo q and leave it as it is, I do not care, but this current state is too oppressive
Bcs this is an asymmetrical game and you cannot compare one side to the other the same way. bcs they dont play the same. they dont even have the same objectives...
Everytime to talk about balance of killers (perks/addons/abilities) you HAVE TO take SWF into account. EVERY FKN TIME!
If Erruption would be uncounterable, it would mean an automatic win, everytime you play it. Which is not the case!
Old Dead Hard was uncounterable. Bcs it always gave the surv a benefit no matter how the situation played out...
You never played as a killer against 4 competetent solo survs right? You point out SoloQ as if it is unplayable and unwinnable in every scenario. If all 4 Players know how the game works and know what to do, they are equally as dangerous and effective as SWF...
Just bcs most of the casual SoloQ Survivors are bad at the game and give up on first down or any other minor inconvenience that keeps them away from holding m1 for 90 sec. You dont have to balance the game around them.
Bcs this makes the game literally unfun and unplayable for anyone that got basic understanding of it...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288936#Comment_3288936
So.... don't do gens at all? Because all the gens in the 3 gen are kicked. But I'm also not supposed to 3 gen, so I can't work on the others outside of the 3 gen. Surprised I haven't thought of this.
if you get 3genned its basically your fault.
Why is the killer not allowed to capitalize on your mistakes? If a killer does a pickup in a bad position you capitalize on it by blinding him and denying him his objective. Same goes with 3gen and erruption.
your argument basically says: we are playing the "team side" of an asymmetrical game. But we are not playing as a team and therefore the game must be patched that way, that even without teamwork we are able to win. Sounds pretty dumb right?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289305#Comment_3289305
Don't forget that killers can just not chase the guy who will probably last 3 mins in a chase. They know how to go after the weak link, I don't understand their argument. Most lobbies aren't balanced and sometimes even prestige can give you away.
dont forget that survs can just not do the gen that will probably make them unable to do stuff for 25 sec...
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@I_CAME said:
A new video came out where streamer/youtuber Hens333 forced a 3 gen on dead dog against a SWF. Eruption is so strong that he forced the game to go on until the time limit expired and all of the survivors instantly died. Is this being possible really something that is good for the game? It's definitely a video the devs should consider looking at if they don't understand why these perks are not fun to go against. It creates this long attrition battle at the end of a game where no one wants to concede.
Oh yeah, please adjust the game based on one vid of a Streamer that probably played against some bottom tier SWF...
Then please dont forget to consider the games where Ayrun finished a game from start to walking out the gate in 4:45 minutes. I dont think this should be possible either right?
You really wanna balance around extremes?
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289179#Comment_3289179
yeah I guess you are right, it's funny how they will ignore this and then whine about survivor perks, hypocrisy at its best
it's also funny how people are straight-up ignoring the fact that I am talking about solo q (literally in the thread title), in swf this perk and most of the killers are a joke to deal with since you know exactly what everyone else is doing (another topic completely)
but in solo where you have 4 people alive (and you are facing a good killer who knows what they are doing) and 4-3 gens done which is a miracle by itself (which means even with lack of coordination and communication everyone managed to play well for the team to be doing this well) and then just by the sheer fact that solo q does not have comms one down can completely destroy momentum that was a struggle to reach to begin with feels like a slap in the face
so youre basically saying "the perk is strong against soloQ and needs a nerf so its even more useless against SWF. So if you play against SWF you just have to accept that you lose. Meanwhile, I cannot accept to have a harder game bcs of one Perk that is outplayable, while SWF is not."
Talking about hypocrisy...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288936#Comment_3288936
The game really isn't that Survivor-sided anymore.
The game tends to side towards whoever wants to play meaner.
So focusing the objective the Game wants you to do is playing "mean" ?
What kind of standard is that? Is scoring a goal in a football game "mean" bcs the other team doesnt have fun when you score?
The game is freakin ridiculously surv sided. Maps favour survs, RNG favours survs, objective favours survs, time favours survs. You basically only win as killer if Survs are doing consecutive MAJOR fuckups. Not losing one mindgame or vaulting to slow. MULTIPLE MAJOR fuckups!
Mostly its altruism that kill survs. if everybody would focus on their objective (gens) then most survs would easily escape, bcs the game is simply designed for survs to escape.
New killer is the prime example for that. There is basically no information survs dont get for absolutely no tradeoff. They see which knight is spawned, his pathing, vision range, they even need LoS to even procc, they can easily outrun the knights without using their brain... And best of all, you spawn a speed & endurance buff for survs to use.
Its just insane how ppl still say this game is not surv sided when even the newest killer spawns buffs for them xD
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288936#Comment_3288936
oh here is the regular I will counter your arguments with my arguments about the other side
adrenaline - the survivors have to finish the gens to do even get value from this 1 time use perk and it still does not guarantee it will achieve anything unless you can coordinate some cool adrenaline play - which you cannot in solo q
unbreakable - are you serious? It's the killer's mistake he slugged someone, the killer made a risky choice, and if there's unbreakable in play
it's on them
dead hard - nerfed
old ds - nerfed
off the record - nerfed, does not work end game
bnps and syringe are powerful yes but not in the same extent eruption is, unless you once again have 4 man team with 4 bnps which you won't have in your average solo q match
yes because I am able to control if 3 gen happens or no in solo :) and if the killer has gen-kicking perks there are high chances that at the point of the match where we are at 1 gen or 2 gens left all gens have been kicked :)
I personally have nothing against old killer meta with ruin undying as they are easily countered, even pr/dms has a counter when you are on your own, but Eurption is overtuned far more than those older killer meta perks
Its not about countering any arguments.
The point is simply, that "heavy impact perks" exist on both sides. These perks can switch the outcome of a Game on both sides.
Yet, the discussion almost ALWAYS solely focuses on Killer perks. And instead of shifting the discussion on "how can we get solo Q on an equivalent level to SWF so can be able to better counter Perks like Erruption" its always just "nerf killer perks to the point they are trash"
"adrenaline - the survivors have to finish the gens to do even get value from this 1 time use perk and it still does not guarantee it will achieve anything unless you can coordinate some cool adrenaline play - which you cannot in solo q"
Oh yeah? you dont have to waste 2 seconds of kicking per gen, losing distance on a survivor, maybe losing even track on him, catching up, getting looped again, hitting, downing, etc. to procc Erruption? Is that not "earned" ? Adrenaline even proccs after you get unhooked and heals you to FULL INSTANT...
"unbreakable - are you serious? It's the killer's mistake he slugged someone, the killer made a risky choice, and if there's unbreakable in play it's on them"
Its your mistake to only do gens, that are so close to each other, that the killer can kick them all and chase 4 survivors constantly off gens and down them all together. Are you kidding right now?
dead hard - nerfed not as much as ruin
old ds - nerfed not as much as noed
off the record - nerfed, does not work end game not as much as corrupt/pop/Thana/list goes on.
Every surv perk you mentioned, is still meta. All those killer perks are mostly trash now...
"bnps and syringe are powerful yes but not in the same extent eruption is, unless you once again have 4 man team with 4 bnps which you won't have in your average solo q match"
I wont even argue with that. Getting 15% of your main objective progress and denying the killer 1/6 of his main objective without any counterplay nor skill involved is just beyond a bad argument...
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
I would consider myself high mmr survivor based on the type of killers I face and sweaty teamates I get (sometimes of course this won't be the case and I will get your average self care Claudette and Bill who will run from the opposite side of the map to farm me) and the amount of times this perk straight up changed the outcome of the match is actually unbelievable and those were matches where everyone was doing good so the killer was not some noob and my teamates had a brain
it's basically at the most tense point of the match 1/2 gens left some people are on death hook, we have someone running the killer with limited pallets left and the rest of us are being smart by staying injured and just pushing those last 1/2 gens that are at 80-90% and then bam - the killer gets the down and 25 seconds no one can do #########
as everyone here with experience in this game knows, every second in the match is crucial, especially near the end where everyone must play perfectly if it's a close call.
This perk needs to change, it's way too powerful, it should be either just 10% off the gen or just the status effect, but both is borderline oppressive
You can basically copy & paste this text onto almost every meta Surv Perk or Red Addon.
Adrenaline/Unbreakable/Syringes/BNPs/Dead Hard/etc./etc.
Like how often do those perks/items carry the most average survivors through matches they shouldnt have won?
You cannot glue yourself to that one strong perk that killers have until it gets butchered (like corruption/ruin/noed/etc) while merely every surv meta perk is carrying their mistakes.
Devs have to lift soloQ communication until it is en par with swf.
Otherwise there will never be balance in this game.
Right now the game is so disgustingly surv sided and SWF is utterly broken. And still, survs get upset about one perk they cannot counter by just brain afking...
(small tip, dont 3 gen yourself and dont do a kicked gen if someone is in chase if the killer has erruption :) )
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243762#Comment_3243762
I am mostly survivor main so I can say who destroys on those maps and who doesn't, but sure enough.
Very good slinger can hit thru pallet and go around them - it does not work on all of them, so I said 50%. Yet average or bad slinger will struggle (and I have maybe 2hrs on the killer).
As huntress - even if I am mediocre huntress at best. Just today I had 4k. Reason being, that dropping pallet next to huntress is 50/50 (and I would actually say it's like 70/30 for huntress if she can hit without getting pallet). If you really want bad map for huntress that contain a lot of pallets, check out RPD. You will see the difference immediately.
Trapper depends more on how good survivors are in noticing and if you find a team that actually follows him to untrap all his traps - but again, the map contains quite a few bottlenecks that usually contain god pallet - if you are able to trap them (and those traps stay), then you should get relatively easy game. But I will give you the fact, that I overshot and the match is not insanely easy.
For onryo - I don't have her, so I can't say from my personal plays. However I faced lethality onryo on the map before (so yes - this requires her iri addon, otherwise when played "normally", she will struggle). She can teleport almost constantly and with the map being so damn small, you will very soon find yourself in need of a tape. But you will get it only once or twice. After that, you get killed. Without ever being hooked.
So, you are basically saying:
You rarely play killer, you dont even own every killer, nor are you really good on playing killer.
Which means you are not playing against good survivors due to lack of playtime on killerside.
Yet, you still have the AUDACITY, to label killers as easy you havent even played yourself?
Maybe, just MAYBE, consider the fact you are not as good as a survivor as you think, which may be due to the fact you rarely play killer and therefore dont know their weaknesses...
You are the prime example of a surv main, crying for killer nerfs bcs he simply doesnt know or understand #########!
Dont talk about balance if you never stood on the other side of the scale!
It makes you look like a total idiot.
Case closed!
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As I always say:
Grim Embrace Basekit.
Would function as a much needed gen regress, would function as an encouragement to not tunnel and the perk could be used to increase duration (like basekit bt with bt perk)
Easy to implement, good for everyone.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243224#Comment_3243224
Well the game is not survivor sided. Take nemesis or nurse and you will understand. Or take legion with iri button and julie's mixtape + endurance + spirit fury and you will just loose. Same with wraith with brutal strength and 2 shadow dance addons for very probable loose. Or take huntress, trapper, or any other killer that can disable your loops (this includes a bit skilled slinger - who can ignore 50% of all pallets on this map) for insanely hard match. Or take mori-build onryo and prepare for your certain hard attack.
Then again, take (non-palet) freddy or oni for very easy game.
You would be surprised how often will the game screw you over as survivor. There's always problem with finding totems and generators on this map compared to most of other maps. It's very hard against some killers, because this map has very few loops without pallets (with windows).
Even some big killer mains changed their idea and consider this map killer sided. Together with midwitch, saloon, shelter woods and many other maps.
BTW maps in general can't be so bad, because otherwise survivors will not get 41% escape rate on avarage and 39% in high MMR.
Please!
Play Slinger, Huntress, Trapper, Onryo etc against any decent SWF and then post the video.
According to your post it should be easy peasy.
Im very excited for your Trapper Match!
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243044#Comment_3243044
Entitlement to think you can make the game unplayable for one person just because it’s in your interest
Oh yeah?
Why is survivor fun more worth than killer fun?
Play killer and watch 3 gens get burned down before you even get your first down.
Tell me how much fun that is!