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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998993#Comment_3998993
The idea is that not only is tunneling extremely unfun to play against, but it's already far too strong. Why would we be trying to replace the strength of tunneling with something else?
That isn't to say we can't (or shouldn't) give people rewards for not tunneling. I think buffing individual Killers is a better way to go about it.
If Pig, for example, falls to a 50% KR post-changes, then we look at Pig and buff Pig. We shouldn't buff Killers across the board (like Nurse, Blight and Ghoul).
Most killers are not tunneling bcs they Inherently want to. They tunnel bcs by the time you spread hooks onto 4 different survs, 3-4 gens are done and your game is practically over if survs dont do major fuckups. Which Most of them they are Protected of doing by all the basekit stuff they got.
Bonusses like haste or gen kick are not going to cut it. Its like taking away 2 wheels of a race car but "here you have a second Steering wheel and a 3rd Mirror on the outside, youll be fine!"
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If you go through WHY tunneling is so prevalent, it simply is because removing one Player is the most effective way to play killer.
Removing one out of 4 survivors immediately Strips the opposing team of 25% of their "man power". 25% less gen progress, 25% less healing, 25% less perks to Worry about, 25% less items, etc.
So to give killers an even remotely comparable effect to that, welche have to talk about something like -25% repair speed upon all survivors after 3 Individual hooks. Test it and see where it goes from there. Maybe add in some tweeks like -50% if survivors are clumped together, dimnishing the further survivors move away. Ofc with a visual indicator and excluding survivors in chase.
An ongoing PTB with weekly number tweaks could be really helpful here.
The point is in removing the "unfun" part for survivors in making one Person unable to play after a few Minutes while not forcing the killer to play in a way that is hindering him just because it gets more and more punished.
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Force every Player to play at least 200hrs on both sides!
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@Rumble said:
They listened to the feedback of survivor players. They want a killer who they can loop.
The new goal for devs is killers being a fun simulator for survivors, not killers being fun for the killer.
They're pandering to the majority of the community who buys their skins. Knight ai be another dead killer the devs will refuse to buff because survivors will complain
gen repair Simulator incomint...
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@Rickprado said:
Well, the part that the guards hunt duration draw faster if you are closer to them was the worst part for me. Lets hope BHVR change this before going into the live servers.
The thing is, if you are supposed to not work with your guards, what is the point of the banner? Wasnt that the counter to knight cornering you with a guard?
So you are essentially spawning a free endurance and haste buff for survivors to pickup that easily makes up for the 12 sec chase they had to do?
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SoloQ has one glaring problem:
Bad players.
Almost all of your situations wouldnt be anyway near as bad if your teammates were at least decent.
SWFs are an innate proof of this!
TheThe thing is: All you guys are auggesting is, balancing the game around every single survivors ability to escape aka "win" the game, which is a fundamental flaw in a 4v1 Situation.
The Killer is the opposing FORCE in this game and NO single survivor should be able to win the game by himself. This is how the game how the game is balanced and how it should be!
All your suggestions on tunneling and camping are stripping the killer of ways to play effective while ignoring the core issue of survivors playing bad and/or not understanding the game.
TAking away effective playing on killers ends will make the game practically unwinnable in evenly skilled matchups for killers.
You cannot and should never, balance around bad players!
Educate them! Or tighten up your matchmaking!
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@Shroompy said:
Ehhh Im not too much a fan of this and its for one reason: new players. They already have way too many perks to keep track of, and adding more numbers to that would be even more overwhelming
Also as for your DS thing and losing collision. Thats actually already the case, and you can actually just run right over bear traps unarmed within a short period of time after getting off the killers shoulder by any means
Why would it be difficult for newer players? effects stay mostly the same, just the numbers are different.
I think it doesnt make a difference for newer players if pop gets 15, 20 or 30% off a gen… -
@toxik_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414750/how-about-we-add-more-modifiers-to-perks
I like the idea I think it's cool how you can come up with this but one side shouldn't be rewarded for doing bad. If survivors are bad, they are bad, perks shouldn't bring them back into the game. Plus idk man I think you are overestimating the devs (no offense devs) but that seems like a pretty hard implementation and will prob break the game for a couple months
well if you boil it down, anti camp, anti 3 gen, anti tunnel…
All these are basically comeback meachanics that essentially reward bad gameplay by survivors and iron out their mistakes…
I just think perk modifiers could dampen up the skill differences MMR puts players into and iron out some of the glaring Balancing issues this game has with very little effort… -
@toxik_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414750/how-about-we-add-more-modifiers-to-perks
I like the idea I think it's cool how you can come up with this but one side shouldn't be rewarded for doing bad. If survivors are bad, they are bad, perks shouldn't bring them back into the game. Plus idk man I think you are overestimating the devs (no offense devs) but that seems like a pretty hard implementation and will prob break the game for a couple months
well if you brake it down, mechanics like this are already in place…
Anti camp, anti tunnel, anti 3 gen…
All these mechanics, while combatting ######### behaviour (which is a minority), are basically comeback mechanics for bad gameplay.
Most 3 gens, outside of 3 gen meta, were not forced by killers but enabled by dumb choices survivors made…
Same goes for anti tunnel, etc…
I just think perk modifiers could dampen the skill differences MMR puts players into… -
Its funny, if killers play a specific way that ppl dont like the solution is punishment and making it harder.
(e.g. tunneling, camping, slugging, etc.) Punish them, make it not worth, etc. pp….
But if survivors play in a way, that ppl dont like the solution is "oh just let them, make it easier, they have a reason for it, you need to have understanding for their situation/feelings" like yeah, sure…
This community is so broken xD -
- after the first down, you hesitated and run circles, why?
Just hold W and gain distance to do an objective. - After Ada is near you, 3 ppl are around you trying to rescue. Only one is doing gens.
If you dont do your objective and everyone is hovering around, the killer has no reason to hook.
Slugging you was actually the best action he could do! - You havent used lithe once, you at least, had 3 chances to use it.
- Your looping skills are not good. Knowing you cannot loop billy you should have gone to a stronger tile which would have been possible if you used lithe or wouldnt waste so much time running circles (pointing to nr. 1 and 3)
Many other stuff here but just trying to lay out all your mistakes on the killer, wont get you out of these situations…
- after the first down, you hesitated and run circles, why?
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@Blueberry said:
As survivor not really much complaints. It’s pretty good. I still think NOED is an unhealthy perk. Matchmaking is bad but that’s realistically unfixable as it has to be bad to cover up the games balance problems unless we want to start balancing from the top down but most people want the game balance around the lowest common denominator. Tunneling? Also not changing for the same reason as above.
So overall pretty happy with it. The things that could change would need drastic game changes that realistically aren’t happening. Most games I lose are because me or my team played badly, not because of balance issues. As it should be.
This!
Seems like the only sane comment.
Survivor is excessively easy when played accordingly. Thing is: a very big chunk of the dbd community are mid to low skilled, casual survivors that dont understand how to play the game right (or dont want to, bcs goofing around is more fun).
Survivor is so freakin incomplex it is insane. The Game is still balanced heavily towards survs, which is proven by most swfs.
Yet ppl still demand to do challenges, goof around while listening to music, not caring much abt the gameplay and still escape every trial bcs they are "good players"... which they are not...
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
Only times I've hit the cap or seen the cap hit has been when Surge is being ran. It'd be nice if something could change in that regard whether it's adjusting the system or buffing that perk.
The system should just kick in if 1 gen is left to do. It doesnt make sense that regression Events are counted b4 a 3 gen is even possible.
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@Halloulle said:
question is in how far it had a meaningful impact on the match
Its taking away a strategic decision (which gens to do and which not) from survivors and transfering it to killers who already have shitloads of micromanaging to do.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641893#Comment_3641893
You mean...the tail attack where Xeno lost no distance for spamming it?
Ah, of course.
How about this? We fix the hitbox bug with Xeno's Tail Attack that I don't think was ever fixed; then we re-evaluate. He is extremely oppressive in chase when he's in Runner Mode. He has good map pressure and map traversal. He really doesn't need anything right now, barring bug fixes of course.
So the killer is extremely opressive if survivors dont play the killer specific side objective?
Oh no, how unfair!
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Simple solution to tunneling:
Make not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling.
Right now, there is Grim Embrace and DMS, even with nerfed stbfl Killers are going out of their way to hook 4 individual survivors and purposefully ignore the obsession.
Yet countless thread about how unbalanced and unfair those perks are.
So you dont tunnel and survivors dont like it, you tunnel they dont like it either...
You can nerf and punish tunneling all you want, there is simply not a single strategy in the game that is more efficient than getting one person out asap and robbing the survs of 25% efficiency across the board.
People will always play versus games competitively. Even goofy and silly games like fall guys get completely min/maxed.
Its human nature that ppl want to win.
Encourage not tunneling. Basekit grim embrace, 10% repair debuff if 4 survs are 1 hooked, whatever.
Nerfing tunneling or implementing basekit bandaid "anti tunneling" buffs for survivors wont change anything.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627508#Comment_3627508
Sometimes, I do wonder if some people aren't real.
"Stop ad hominem attacks"
"You just suck lmao"
Closing the gap between Solo Q and SWF is not favoring Survivors. I think it's very very obvious at this point that both of us play exclusively Killer, but one of us hasn't reached the point where we can stop demonizing the other side.
You'll get there, in time.
Quote me where I said "you suck" ?
Right now I actually play more survivor than Killer, bcs it is way more relaxing.
Thats why I said, most of the Survivor Mains are bad bcs they have bad decisionmaking. They dont understand killer mechanics, they dont know maps/tiles/spawns/timers, etc.
You see it all the time.
Nobody is perfect and nobody is playing very well all the time. But the amount of bad decisions made by survivors blamed on killers if you watch replays/streams etc. is astounding!
Isnt it curious how everyone gets camped, tunneled and 3 genned at the same time in nearly every game so that the devs need to adress this?
Funny that most of the time ppl accuse me or other killers of tunneling and I rewatch the gameplay, they were just running into the killer or being easy targets. Same with 3 gens aside from past eruption meta. Most of the 3 gens were made by Survs not thinking about which gens to do when.
But yeah, Killers are not allowed to defend gens, so they chase, they are not allowed to tunnel. And dont camp so they dont hook, but then they slug which is also toxic!
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627508#Comment_3627508
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
What issues do killers have, across the board, that need to be addressed?
The FoV slider is pretty much the only thing on that list, and that's now gone. What else do you want BHVR to do, that is not balance related?
pretty simple:
Gen Times are to flexible. They can go from 120sec per gen down to 30 or 20 seconds. There are teams that leave the exit gates after 4:45 min. Bring all the gen progression and regression perks in line so the extend of how fast or slow gens go is not that big.
Maps! Map layouts are completely fcked up. Garden of Joy Main or Haddonfield main are the perfect example. If run correctly, the killer cannot physically catch you without major fuckups from survivors. Lower Tier Killers and esp. M1 Killers really struggle to the point that nearly everyone jus gives up chase if ppl run into GoJ Main Building, bcs there is not point in running it.
Tiles/Pallets are spawning way to close. There are way to much Safe Pallets or safe loops to close to another. Add more Line of sight Blockers but make all loops mindgameable. Tunneling happens bcs there is no point in chasing a healthy survivor into shack next to a jungle gym.
Make NOT tunneling more rewarding instead of making tunneling harder and harder. It will still remain the most effective way to play. f.e. add a "demoralizing debuff" to all survivors if everyone got hooked once and add another stack if everyone got hooked twice.
The most important part in my opinion is the following:
EDUCAT SURVIVOR PLAYERS!
Make them play at LEAST one game as and/or against every killer in the tutorial. They need to understand mechanics, how tiles work, when to do gens and whe to NOT unhook. Most of the survivors accusing me of tunneling are unhooking right as i turn my back on them to leave the hook.
Tbh, a big part of the surv community is just downright Bad!
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626812#Comment_3626812
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZFCR51VMCAHD/image.png
Correct, survivors make mistake, they should lose
It works the same to killers, a killer play a game normally should 60% kill rate a team that play a game normally. If survivors stack meta more than killers, they win. Same to killers, If you stack more meta than them (slowdown, strong killer/adon, tunneling), you win.
The point is, survivors can stack more meta than killers. But its far easier for killers to stack more meta than survivor. You will barely play against average solo that stack 100% meta in their 32 slots of loadout. You as killer can keep the same 100% stacked meta loadout through 1000 matches.
Beside. as @Devil_hit11 pointed, tunnel/camping/slugging/3Gen are pretty much build-in for killers that survivors have to use exact perks with exact play to able to combat it, which is almost impossible for Solo. A survivor should not be robbed to play a game if a Bubba M2 his chainsaw ready right next to a hook. I would quit the game if 10 matches straight against face camper, the only gameplay is either look at killer then die or look at Gen then escape.
So we are ignoring that the map is basically a built in Counter for tunneling? Almost ALL of the maps, with 2-3 exceptions, are exclusively in survivors favour.
And again, you are trying to balance this game like a 1v1v1v1v1 but it is 1v4. Killer plays against 16 meta perks. Survs play against 4. And that is the point. If the game would be balanced like you guys want it to be, every survivor could win the game in a 1v1 against the killer.
You HAVE TO play as a team!
And that brings me back to my point:
SoloQ isnt miserable bcs of overpowered killers. It is because of bad survivor players. And you cannot and SHOULD NOT balance around bad players!
There have to be build in mechanics to make the killer more powerful. Because, like i explained before, killers time is more precious than survivors time.
Everytime the killer is interacting with one survivor, 3 others are progressing the game. and you need to balance around that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627234#Comment_3627234
Oh?
So you play comp, I presume? Since you're resorting to the tried and true, "You're just obviously so bad at the game" thing, I assume you must be in a position to cast such judgment.
A couple people here have seen me play Killer. They know.
The Forum is honestly pretty Killer-sided, as is Reddit. Twitter and TikTok are very Survivor-sided.
Ooo, how dare the Devs not be gods at their own game!!!! God forbid they, gasp, don't want to play the game after spending 8 hours working on it.
I did not say they need to be gods.
Nor did I say you are not a good killer.
Stop using ad hominem to create a false narrative.
You just obviously dont play against survs that know what they are doing and dont goof around.
If the devs REALLY understood their game, explain how maps like garden of joy with its main building can exist even AFTER a re visit for balancing?
How can Haddonfield main spawn with 2-3 windows and at least one god pallet next to it?
How can a TL tile, a jungle gym and shack spawn right next to each other?
If the devs are not die hard surv mains, or, at least, favour survivors more, how did survs get a HUD update that precisely tells everyone what their team is doing while kllers like onryo, plague, etc have to guess how far their power is stacked? Why do killers still have to count hooks?
Why is their accessibility options like visual TR and killers have none of that? No visual Sound cues, nothing...
Dont get me started on hexes that havent been touched and are basically useless if they spawn infront of survs. Scourge Hooks exclusively spawning in one area of the game, etc.
Survs "issues" always have higher priority than killers. FOV slider is the first thin Killers got across the board since the big shakeup in 2022.
I get it, the majority of the Playerbase exclusively plays survivor. And thats why they dont understand most of the game mechanics. Killer is way less forgiving than survivor and requires much more knowledge, coordination and skill overall!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626870#Comment_3626870
And there it is.
"Anyone who does or says anything I don't like is a diehard Survivor main!!!!"
At least we've gotten to the crux of the matter.
you saw some of the devs play?
Some of them streamed, some of them played publicly.
Google it!
This forum is the survivor echo chamber.
Not admitting the last patches have been overwhelmingly survsided and most of the maps, even after "rebalancing" are completely in survivors favour, is absolute ignorance.
You may be a killer main, but you obviously dont play against good survivors regularly.
Everyone and their aunt can win against 200hrs survivors with perkless/addonless trapper...
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624804#Comment_3624804
The community is firmly under the belief that BHVR, indeed, doesn't play/know this game. Get on board.
They proved it multiple times that they dont fully understand the core mechanics of their game.
And at least, that most of them are die hard survivor mains.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626817#Comment_3626817
Yes, I do think we should buff Nurse to be easier to play and to be more accessible.
Those stats also didn't include DC's which raise the effective Kill Rate. In reality, the Kill Rate is likely closer to 70%.
Oh we shall buff survivors now according to how often they DC?
Are you even reading what you are typing?
You wanns give in fully to the entitlement?
Everything survs cry about shall be buffed for them?
You really just dont understand how balancing works. You dont want a balanced game, you want an easy one!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626479#Comment_3626479
I do not see that represented in any data.
Which data?
You mean the data that shows 60% killrates including self offing on hook?
You mean the data that shows nurse had a below targeted killrate?
You cannot take data just if it suits you. If you take dara serious and think killers are overall to strong bcs they sit at 60% killrate, we need massive nurse buffs to accomodate for that!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626088#Comment_3626088
Show me these players.
Killers have strategies that are too strong for the average player to deal with effectively. That should be addressed.
So killers should just inevitably lose against decent players? Just so average to low skill survivors can win against good killers?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626088#Comment_3626088
Some does by mistake, some just to throw the game.
Thing is, is the effort that you stand in front of a hook equal to the effort the 4 random people have to input to counter it?
Is missile homing to a single injured target (tunneling) requires equal effort that survivors have to input to counter it?
Is holding W between 3 Gens requires equal effort for the remaining survivors have to input to counter it?
It is the same to a tap can deny a Gen kick. It wasnt about regression being slow and no damage input. Its the effort was not equal between a kick and a tap.
Oh and survivors using strong perks do not guarantee them to win. I can use 4 meta, take a long chase and teammates do totem and chest. I can use off meta and teammate stack Gen perks with toolboxes. I may just sit on Gen without perks and escape because killer tunnels the strongest runner.
You just proved my point.
You using 4 strong perks gives time to your teammates. Them using this time to cleanse or open chests instead of pushing gens is their bad game decision and not the fault of the killer.
So you think the killer should lose in this case? You are chasing for 5 minutes bcs of your perks and good tiles/pallets, your teammates think goofing around is better than doing the objective and you still think you should win?
Btw its an asymetrical game. Killer is alone against 4 survs. Therefore his time is much more precious than survs time. You cant compare those.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626068#Comment_3626068
The way you say
Survivor boosted themselves with
- 4 crutch second chance perks
And killer boosted themselves with
- 4 crutch perks
- camping
- tunneling
- slugging
- 3 genning
- top tier killer
And still not yet mention top tier addon.
Proof that its far easier for killers to boost MMR than survivors, especially Solo
If you stack just 2 of them in the list and not manage to get more than 2K, the MMR you're standing is already higher than where you should be.
4 Crutch perks from them
4 crutch perks of survivor 2
4 crutch perks of survivor 3
4 crutch perks of survivor 4
Basekit BT plus haste
Anti face camp + hook grab removal
Literally uncounterable perks like buckle up + ftp
Unbalanced maps with infinites and god loops/pallets
The problem isnt killers being to strong.
The problem is 90% of survivors are literal idiots that dont understand general game mechanics but still insist that they win however they want to play!
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624827#Comment_3624827
Genuine question so I can understand this POV better: In this scenario where you've downed Survivors near the same generator 8 times, how many times do you think you should be able to make a critical mistake and lose a down to a save (flashlight, pallet, etc.) and still deserve to win the match?
Genuine Question so I can understand YOUR POV better:
In the current state of the game, with all the mechanics survs received to iron out their critical mistakes (e.g. saving while killer is near, 3 genning themselves, not having map awareness, not understanding killer powers, not playing as a team, ...) how many handholding mechanics do you think survs need to play the game and still deserve to win?
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Thanks! This sums up 90% of the survivor community :D
Killer XYZ, which I never played bcs I dont play Killer and therefore dont understand the mechanics, needs a nerf bcs I lost against him...
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@itstofuuu99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589571#Comment_3589571
i just feel like all of the fun aspects of survivor are being taken away whilst killers get all these buffs (which would be great if i enjoyed playing killer) but i don’t, and survivor just feels like a chore now :((
Which buffs did killers get?
All the latest major buffs or QoL Changes have been for Survivors.
Removing Hook grabs, HUD, Anti Camp, Anti Tunnel, gen regression nuked to the ground...
What exactly did killers get in return?
0,x buffs to animations and a rework in healing which didnt really effect stuff like syringes or syptic...
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581735#Comment_3581735
There is in fact no non-hackable way 3 gens can pop in 1-2 minutes while a killer chases one survivor. So no it doesn’t go both ways.
Really? you watched streamers going for the fastest escape in 4:45min till the first person went out the gate?
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581739#Comment_3581739
I know, i mean, there were SIGNIFICANTLY more holes in this boat. If u played this game 3 years ago as killer, you didn't stand a chance at all against good survivors. Now you have some chances.
Only if multiple survivors repeatedly ######### up in a tremendous way.
Thats what I said. Killers mistakes can easily decide your game while survs can missplay multiple times and still escape bcs there are built in mechanics that iron out a lot of their mistakes.
E.g: basekit bt + haste, no hook grabs, anti camp, safe pallets, tile spawns on maps, infinites on maps, pallet vacuum, hitboxes on projectiles, HUD, visual TR, etc.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/396667/killer-doesnt-feel-rewarding-anymore
While playing killer against good survivors is still stressful as hell, there was not time when playing killer was MORE rewarding than now, dude.
I completely understand what you talking about, but your title is just ridiculous.
Its not that losing against good survs is bothering me.
If youre better than I am, you should win shouldnt you?
This is not about winning or losing in general...
Its more like youre sitting in a sinking boat with multiple holes and as soon as you manage to seal one, three others pop open.
Doesnt matter how fast you are or how tight they are sealed, you are still sinking...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Do you have some gameplay to review?
will post if I start streaming again.
im always up for advice and usually review my own games but I kind of really lost my breath of playing killer atm.
had 3 games back to back tonight with 4 gens poppin in under 5 minutes (stopped the time) while the one surv I was chasing was just running and predropping almost every pallet...
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I even aknowledged that I didnt play every game perfectly.
So there is no need to "get gud" or "skill issue".
Its not that I 0ked, 1ked or 2ked multiple games while flipping through killers and expectee to 4k every game.
Its the fact that every hit I landed, every chase Ive won, every mind game I played right and every decision that was made didnt feel like it had an impact on the outcome.
But the one pallet safe, that one missed hit, that one bodyblock completely outweight every thing I did right in that game...
Meanwhile survs can run into walls bcs there are 3 safe pallets in a circle on hawkins lab which can all be predropped and a killer cant do sht about it...
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459156#Comment_3459156
Its always the killer mains that say stuff like that. “Reach a loop with base bt” or “go down by a pallet with ds”🤦♂️
Bcs it is straight up facts
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@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459145#Comment_3459145
not from every hook you can reach a safe loop. it depends on map, rng and how many survivor resources are left. blanket statements like yours are useless.
Survivors move at 4,4m/sec for 10 sec after being unhooked.
Thats a sole distance of 44m. (Not taking into account taking a hit and getting a second speedboost)
A radius of 44m equals a coverable area of about 6100m²
The biggest map in the game is mothers dwelling with an area of ~ 12.000m²
So you are telling me, being able to cover half of the map, including being invincible, without doing anything for it, is not enough?
What do you want? A jetpack to fly across the map? A teleport?
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398796#Comment_3398796
I agree with you on that one.
The devs are pretty much saying "Even though the killer is already naturally faster than you, they're obligated to get free hits out of you just because".
Like if you have the skill to catch me, good you deserve to catch me. If not, then you don't get to down me just because you're getting naturally faster and faster for not being able to smart me in a chase.
Ok we remove bloodlust but in return, all safe pallets get exchanged to mindgameable pallets and windows block after 3 vaults no matter how fast they are.
You cannot complain about killers getting hit "bcs the devs said so" while ignoring survs being safe "bcs the devs say so"...
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Be prepared for all the surv mains to tell you to "git gud" while they blatantly cry in every other thread that tunneling and camping need to be nerfed or heavily penalized bcs it is "no fun gameplay"...
I always thought the simple fact, that one side of the game is even remotely able to bully the other side while completing their objective as a "side quest" should clarify how blunt and easy their whole objective is...
But apparantly, we are balancing the game for survivors that dont know what looping is bcs they bought the right to win against killers with theit 40th feng min skin 🙃
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363889#Comment_3363889
Yeah because every single game of DBD is gonna be like that
You dont get the point either.
Its not about the fact that every game is like this. Even when standing still and doing nothing, gens shouldnt pop at 1/3 or 2/3 of the time they are supposed to pop, when on the other hand, chases/downs have no minimum timer and hook states cannot be cut short.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363579#Comment_3363579
I suggested what I did because a similar thing has happened to me, and although it is annoying, I see it as extremely skilled gameplay on the survivor side, so I don't want it removed.
In short, any single generator can be removed too quickly if the survivors want to do so.
I think an ability to counter that would be good, if you mean that ability should be part of the killers base kit, that sounds like a great solution.
As long as the killer has to go do something to make it happen, and right now, drop chase and visit all the generator sites isn't good enough.
So you think holding M1 and occasionally hitting space while your buddy tells you hes been chased by the killer is "skilled gameplay" ?
Nah, i disagree!
The issue is not a perk, to slow down gens. There are already plenty of those.
The solution has to be a fixed time of gens (on both ends) that cant be extended or cutted.
F.E. if targeted gen time is 90 sec. they cant go faster than 80 not slower than 100 sec... After that, chases and killer abilities can be balanced around that.
You cannot balance around 90 second gens when they can go in 60, 40 or 150 seconds....
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@TheSubstitute said:
Your clip above doesn't lead to the actual video so I went to your channel to take a look. I'm suspicious there wasn't something else going on.
10:49 Game starts
11:27 Victor hits Feng and Charlotte starts a chase with Rebecca so two survivors are tied up
12:07 Two gens pop a few seconds after you abandon chase on Rebecca. You start chasing Jeff. They pop simultaneously but only the gen with the Feng had PT active (Feng and Jeff there, Bill on another, Rebecca in chase).
12:59 You drop Jeff. After hooking Jeff you see three survivor auras on three different gens and send out Victor. This takes until 13:47 in total which is when the other 3 gens pop.
So, Prove Thyself did something on one gen but you disrupted Feng and were chasing Rebecca. Victor doesn't take that long to crush so Feng probably went straight back to the gen but both gens popped nearly simultaneously while only one gen could have had the benefits of PT. That was either really bad luck, deliberate communication to arrange it that way, or possibly a subtle hack.
From that, there was 100 seconds from when Jeff started being chased to being hooked and Victor sent to a gen. Your aura reading showed three survivors on three different gens so that is possible but, once again, the gens popped simultaneously even though there was different travel times to the gens. There was enough time for the survivors to have done the gens but the simultaneous pops are what makes me suspicious.
Now, in hindsight, and I'm not criticizing since I'm not saying I would have done any better but there are a couple things that, in hindsight, might have helped assuming everything was legit.
(a) The chase with Rebecca. From landing Victor on Feng you knew two survivors were on that gen. Instead of chasing Rebecca you could have ignored her and focused on gen defense (or forced the pallet drop early and then went to the gen). With two survivors a gen pops fast and you can always chase a survivor again but you can't undo a finished gen.
(b) The chase with Jeff. Jeff was by a strong tile (the shack in GoJ with the pallet by the truck out front) and the gen had just popped along with the other one on that side of the map. If the gen were still up securing the gen with CoB and then dropping Jeff would have made more sense but, with no gens left on that side of the map, it would have been better to go to an area where a gen is and chased the survivor there.
(c) Deadlock would have been very helpful here. The gens went so fast you didn't even get a chance to use CoB and Oppression so that could have slowed them down.
I hope you don't run into that situation again but, if you do, dropping chase earlier to focus on gen defense might help. To be honest, those survivors on that map meant it was going to be a super rough game anyway and the odds were stacked against you at the beginning. The simultaneous gen popping on two occasions even though there were reasons the gens should have popped with at least a few seconds between them makes me suspicious there might have been something else going on. It could have just been a coincidence or a mad level of coordination on a 4 person SWF but it's weird.
First of all thanks for your headsup, I exchanged the link.
I went over that game two times.
No matter how i play it out, in that setup, with this killer and the perks i have chosen there was literally no chance for me to win.
Which, tbh makes me really angry to get into a game that is not winnable by default.
I saw other games going as fast as this without the double gen pops...
May they have hacked or not, the issue with gen times is at hand.
Thanks though for your time on the answer, I appreciate it!
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363565#Comment_3363565
I mean, you took also almost 3 minutes to down your first survivor and hook them.
No amount of gen regression would have saved you there besides Corrupt or deadlock. Not even old eruption.
Basically the survivors were never in any pressure so the gens went flying.
I am not saying you are bad but now seeing the clip it really doesn't surprise me the gens went flying like that. Doesn't help that Garden of joy is also a terrible map for Killer.
You dont get my point.
No matter how bad I played this game (and I played super bad) It shouldnt be even remotely possible to finish five objectives that are balanced around 90 sec completion time each, to be finished in under 3 minutes with even one or two ppl not being on the objective the whole time (which means effectively less than 40 sec. per gen, which is almost 2/3 less than they should be!)
Even the wesker game which is later in the stream. I played super bad aswell. Still 5 Gens in 5 Minutes without any gen progression perks or items. You cannot balance a game around 90 sec. Gens and make tham fly at almost half the time and then expect killers to just play around that fact.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363190#Comment_3363190
Right, we get that. No confusion what so ever on what a toolbox does.
Countering the items and perks that make 3 minute games possible, is what I'm asking for.
And I'm asking that it not be done by nerfing the survivor tools.
I can see how it might be a lot to ask, but given that the developers are paid to develop a game, I think they can come up with something.
Countering the gen rush meta with more slowdown perks will work the same way as fighting tunneling meta with anti tunnel perks.
It wont.
Its a core gameplay issue!
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363155#Comment_3363155
Toolbox in general and BNP are for decrease Gen time. "Counter play" is anything that extend the Gen time, which is 4 slowdown.
Counter play to tunneling (shorten the chase by keep chasing an injured survivor) is slapping all 2nd chance, which increase the chase time.
Counter play is just doing the opposite thing from the other side.
BNP should gone. Gen slowdown should not be "that strong" because the possibility of 4 Commo toolboxes & 4 BNP exist. Toolbox in general should also be changed to something else.
So you think it is "ok" for the killer to have to play 4 slowdown perks in order to counter 2 items and 2 perks on survivor side which ultimately leads to 10 perks and 2 items on surv side that are not counterable for the killer?
Shouldnt killer perks be way more powerful than surv perks?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Some gameplay would be nice. Because if the Gens really were so fast, you probably did not really apply any pressure at all. So seeing how you played and what you might have done wrong would help a lot.
I chased 2 ppl. There wasnt any more time for anything else. Even if Im doing nothing, gens shouldnt be able to fly that fast.
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@Pulsar said:
There is no way all the gens were done in 2:58.
Even if you did NOTHING, it would be almost impossible to do that.
Bro
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1757553781?t=0h10m46s
game starts at around 10:49. 5th gen pops at 13:47.
I dont need to freakin tell you sht
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348589#Comment_3348589
Regardless of such, it appears that we have reach a wall here, you see.
I, among many others, just cant agree with the points you are making because the comparisons and arguments made can be refuted with evidence and logic (such as acknowledging nuance), and you (and us as well) are too stubborn to change your (and our) stance and/or listen.
None of this is going anywhere and we are both wasting our time. For both our sake, I will stop discussing this further, I would recommend to do the same.
Yeah bcs you still dont understand what I am trying to say.
You hook yourself on eruption, tunneling, camping or blastmine. But they are just examples and could be widened to any other topic.
F.e. having to equip shadowborn to aquire a full FoV in 2023 which could be done by a simple option is ######### hideous. Yet survivors get hud updates and quality of life visual updates to improve their felling during gameplay...
Its not about every individual problem mentioned. Its about the standards set to what each side has to "endure" during gameplay, where the bar of how many frustrating game elements you have to accept is way higher on killer side.
Which ultimately leads to all the miserable soloQ games you guys are experiencing.
But thats a different topic...
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@KerJuice said:
You’re not crazy. How are the teammates you’re matched up with? For me, my teammates are mostly players who tend to make a lot of bad choices, do not pressure gens when they should, and give up easily when faced with adversity. The latter is what gets me the most, because continuing to play when the odds are stacked against you is what makes you better at the game. THE best games I have ever had in DBD were the ones against highly skilled killers who us survivors had a tug of war for match control, and end up persevering in the end with either a 2, 3, or 4 man escape and everyone on death hook.
and thats the point. With all the handholding mechanics (basekit bt/hud/maybe basekit UB/infinite boons/cranked up addons/etc.) survs will never learn how to get better at the fundamentals of the game.
The HUD f.e. provides a shitload of information which good players will benefit hugely off. Bad players wont. just like DH, its a freakin powerful tool in the hands of a good survivor but useless in bad survs hands.
Most of the mechanics that are there to "protect" you (f.e. basekit BT) are not used for protection from good survivors bcs they dont need protection. They use those tools agressively (bodyblocking) bcs they get protected by the map/their team/other perks or items.
This, and only this is the problem!
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347916#Comment_3347916
But here is the thing, about 85% of playerbase, playing very badly, so 85% of the games are killer sided.
I bet you never played SOLOQ survivor, so you have no idea, worst game balance ever, killer is extremely relaxing to play, thats why I main killer now, you can play the OP SOLOQ survivor
So whats your point? Making the Game harder for Killers and more easy for survivors as it is? How are those bad players gonna get better if you keep holding their hands and carrying their asses through all their mistakes?