Tsulan
Tsulan
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- Tsulan
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Comments
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Everyone wants to play Chucky. So just play survivor in the meantime until the hype calms down.
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@Firellius said:
Since folks here don't seem to be willing to look at the entire scenario and consider the extra time wasted, the difficulty of pulling it off, the low likelihood of it being useful and the fact that it needs additional perks to support it, I want folks to also take a deep breath, and say the following to themselves:
"It is okay for a survivor perk to sometimes benefit the survivors"
Because y'all are hardcore arguing that the perk should do literally nothing.
We just come from a place where DS was a weaponized perk for years. I don´t know about you, but i don´t like weaponized perks.
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@Annso_x said:
Maybe she'll be 115 when out of hatchets (basekit) ? I can't imagine she'll get any major changes
Thats a red addon on her...
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596830#Comment_3596830
i didn't really ever see that except in cases where survivors made it really obvious they had DS tbh. Like it happened but it was very rare in my games at least
Lucky you! As stated somewhere else, Unbreakable was the second most used survivor perk... Might be a reason behind this.
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Captain? What does "will always be a W" mean?
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I just love how survivors react to another survivor for saying that he simply doesn´t like playing as killer.
Guys relax! Its a game!
I also find survivor more realixing than playing killer. No shame in that. Its a 4vs 1 after all. Survivor isn´t under stress all the time like killer. Thats the whole reason. As killer you are on your own. A single mistake can cost you the match. As survivor, you can make several mistakes and your team can still pull you out. Simple as that.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
"We've seen an uptick in Any Means Necessary and have decided to tweak it to be interrupted by anything, such as the wind blowing. This should bring it more in line with our vision."
This made me chuckle
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His rework was absolutely botched. No Freddy Main from before the rework still plays him.
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@Firellius said:
"I'm concerned because it seems like the mindset they're adopting to address pain points in the gameplay loop is all stick and no carrot."
Carrots don't work. Killers will gravitate to the easiest, highest return strategy, and will continue to do so. Overpowered strategies (yes, chess merchant was plainly broken) need to be nerfed down, since you can't provide an alternative without breaking the game's balance even further.
BBQ was the proof that carrots do work. Until they removed the bloodpoint bonus.
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I love this! Lets see if more survivors change their build to do this.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596910#Comment_3596910
Not sure why not tunneling should be rewarded with a one shot down. It’s basically bbq on steroids.
Its only a one shot down, if the survivor doesn´t hide in a locker.
Devs probably noted how the bloodpoint removal of BBQ lead to more tunneling (what a surprise) so they introduced a new perk, that does what BBQ did previously.
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@ElodieSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596883#Comment_3596883
Stuck in the dream by himself, forever.
yes
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594134#Comment_3594134
Fun IS subjective. However, everyone can agree that hanging from a hook or bleeding out on the ground are not fun aspects of the game. As long as killer strategies that magnify these elements of the game are the most effective, we will continue to see killers use them.
So no hooking and slugging. *noted
If killers could get a note on whats allowed, it would make things so much easier.
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New perk that actively rewards killers for not tunneling. That gives killers a new target...
How is that a bad thing, that needs to get nerfed?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/398523/i-will-never-get-this-community-man
For every one of those games you get? I get the same from survivors. ######### gonna be #########, its not a "sides" thing.
Pretty much this.
Some people are just toxic. Doesn't matter what side they play.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596878#Comment_3596878
To make it not an issue. That's the point of a counter-perk.
So killers actually slugged a lot...
Otherwise equipping Unbreakable would be pointless.
No one equips a pointless perk.
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Freddy has entered the chat.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596830#Comment_3596830
No they didn't. Second most picked perk was Unbreakable, so they couldn't.
Not been around then? It was the change that introduced every match having the obsession sign, even when no obsession perks were in the match.
Which was specifically to deny killers the ability to tell when DS was NOT in the match, because that'd immediately cause them to tunnel. Slugging was really nowhere near the issue you are trying to portray it as.
If slugging wasn't an issue, then why was Unbreakable the second most picked perk?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594137#Comment_3594137
That doesn't prevent a meta from forming though. League of Legends has a balance patch every two weeks and there's always still a meta
You'd basically have to hire at least one full time balance person (probably more) just to force players to adjust to the new meta more often, which often happens within a couple days.
BHVR isn´t a tiny company. They have hundreds of employees and DbD is their biggest horse in the stable.
So thats not something unlikely to happen.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596202#Comment_3596202
Just like how when the anti-camp mechanic was introduced killers only ever slugged and never hooked, or like how killers never hooked back before the DS nerf, right?
Face it, "killers will just do [other presumed-to-be toxic thing] so you better not give survivors anything useful" is basically always an empty threat directed at people who don't even have power over balance changes anyway
But that was literally what happend when every killer thought that every survivor had DS. They slugged.
Not been around then? It was the change that introduced every match having the obsession sign, even when no obsession perks were in the match.
People forget this stuff really fast.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596236#Comment_3596236
Most people certainly would not call it a crutch. It's an anti tunnel perk, I fail to see how that is a crutch in any way or form, if anything tunneling is a crutch for killers. And yes I get that tunneling can be a necessity. But the answer to that is to not make it a necessity, not keep tunneling as an incredibly viable strategy that ruins the fun for countless survivor players.
There is a simple solution for that. Make going for other survivors more rewarding. Kinda like BBQ before they removed the bloodpoint bonus and stop hook bombing/body blocking after getting unhooked.
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@BooperDooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596202#Comment_3596202
The counter is just to not tunnel. If you're tunneling, expect to be punished for it. It's 2 extra seconds to what we currently have, it's not a big difference and it doesn't mean it being active during endgame will come back, in fact that's very unlikely. Why we so worried over 2 seconds?
Where in my statement did i say that i tunnel? I´m the guy laying on the floor and dwindling my thumps.
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@C3Tooth said:
I dont believe it takes half a year for increasing 3 to 5sec as a change. I bet the change may be something bigger.
Exactly! A complete overhaul that could be something completely different.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596202#Comment_3596202
Me jumping to locker and forcing killer grap me
Playing Myers intensifies.
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@I_CAME said:
Hopefully they make it 80 seconds so it can synergize with OTR. Can you imagine how mad people would be? That would be a true counter to hard tunneling. The amount of time you'd be able to waste would be incredible.
120 seconds + 5 second stun would sound reasonable. So OtR could trigger and DS as well.
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@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596252#Comment_3596252
i just don’t get how Decisive is a crutch perk coming from someone who has played since 2017 and seen every variation of the perk it hasn’t been crutch in a long time and the decisive we have now is a joke
Simple, it was a crutch for most of its existance. First iteration required killers to dribble survivors to the hook in order to prevent it on their first down. This resulted in devs reducing how often a killer can drop a survivor before they break free. Shortly after they changed DS to prevent dribbling entirely without reverting the previous change.
The history of DS is long and very controversial. I mean, some streamers build up entire montages on that perk alone.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596246#Comment_3596246
Yes, I know. Apparently, despite being corrected before, you are STILL confused about when DS actually got its conspic action nerf.
If you got hit with DS post 4.6, that was entirely your own fault.
Not confused. Just warry on some design decisions. You know, like bringing in a 3 gen killer after saying that they would get rid of 3 gens.
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@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596246#Comment_3596246
Are you getting a lil mad that soon enough you won’t be able to tunnel out for easy wins ?
Not at all. Can´t wait to lay on the floor and dwindle my thumps.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596236#Comment_3596236
No, most people would call DS a band-aid.
Killers really need to get over this 'survivors are only supposed to get one chance' mindset. Game's clearly built for them getting three.
Lets agree to not agree.
DS deserved a nerf after being uncontested and weaponized for so long. Its now a anti-tunnel perk. Some people would like to have it back at its weaponized status. Thats what i call a crutch. If you call it a band-aid, than thats just a different opinion and i´m ok with that.
Cheers
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596210#Comment_3596210
What? Appropriate? Considering you brought the subject up?
Most people would call DS a crutch.
Unless DS is now a killer perk and no one informed me.
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Probably a system that blocks the 3 gens that are furthest away like Corrupt.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596202#Comment_3596202
It's almost like killers are desperate for crutches and just want to get a quick win with as little effort as possible!
Kinda like people have been saying, in regards to tunnelling.
Still, slugging is far more counterable than tunnelling. Any healing perk is a soft-counter to it, after all, not to mention the dedicated anti-slug perks.
This answer in response to a DS thread is kinda...
you know?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596199#Comment_3596199
I can at least do a thing while slugged, as opposed to sitting on the hook the whole game.
But thats whats going to happen. Killers will slug everyone and survivors will complain about slugging.
We already had that.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596191#Comment_3596191
That'd be hilarious, since it's the easiest perk to counterplay.
Do you want to get slugged? Cause thats how you get slugged.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595105#Comment_3595105
Read the date on the OP. This is talking about when ruin when from the old skill check on to the regression one.
I think the nerf to making ruin 100% regression and such was one of the worst changes BHVR has ever done. But the original one is one of the greatest.
Thats why i´m asking. Since Ruin is now one of the worst perks out there.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594511#Comment_3594511
If by relevant you mean completely wrong, then yes, it is relevant.
The change to the regression ruin was one of the greatest changes the devs have ever done and i think is a prime example of buffing something that was weak with high level players, while nerfing that same thing that was too strong against low level players.
When was the last time you´ve seen a killer run Ruin?
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm all for a surrender button. A big red one please.
For both sides pleeeeeeease!
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594156#Comment_3594156
"No reason"
I hardly doubt this is true.
I will let you figure it out for yourself however.
Please enlight me.
Because someone suiciding on the first hook with 5 gens up and teammates on the way, is simply without a reason.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594070#Comment_3594070
Last time they shared kill rates from high mmr, Blight and Nurse was not even highest kills lmao.
They are sharing all mmrs together now but still Blight and Nurse are not highest kill rates. And from my exp, good killer players wins most times. It's all on skills exception of some weak killers like Myers and Trapper.
I agree. There are also quite an amount of hook suicides that probably inflate some kill rates.
Thats one of my biggest complaints about solo queue. Teammates suiciding for no reason.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591910#Comment_3591910
Meta develops because players are able to observe what affects their effectiveness in the match the most and are able to choose what to bring in to the match. In order for there to be no meta, you would need:
1) to prevent perks from meaningfully changing your likelihood of winning, relative to each other
2) to prevent players from being able to observe which perks they win more often with, or
3) to prevent players from being able to consistently choose those perks
I hope you see the problem with each of those options
There is a fourth option. Constantly changing perks. Meta overhaul every 3 months. Prioritizing the current meta and the perks that see no action at all.
It simply can´t be, that very old perks are still meta after all this time.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591910#Comment_3591910
The only way to get 'no meta' would be perkless and addonless gameplay. Although there would still be a 'meta' because gameplay decisions still come into play. Doing gens is always meta because it's better than opening chests, for example.
Addressing perks specifically, you're entirely backwards. This is almost the exact same list for killers as they gave out as official stats around 6.1. The only new perk is nowhere to hide, and gameplay is still just hard tunneling. The only other meta we've had was one of the unhealthiest things ever with gen kick meta literally holding games hostage. So at least we're back to gameplay instead of that crap.
For survivor perks, 5 of the top 10 have been swapped out from that same comparison time. Gameplay also went from staying healthy with medkits and circle to staying injured. That's a huge meta shift in a short time.
Survivor meta has changed a ton, killer meta has not changed.
Could you point out how survivor has changed a ton? What perks are now meta, that haven´t been meta 5 years ago?
Same for the killer meta, please.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592158#Comment_3592158
The root problem is the those perks are design to counter unfun killer behavior. Since killer behavior hasn't really changed, those if reinstated to there former glory today, would instantly be the most chosen perks.
Until Behavior (and killers) realize that the most chosen perks are the ones that keep survivors playing the game, we won't actually cure the problem. The problem is killers playing in an unfun way (tunnelling, camping, slugging) is VERY effective.
How do you make the game more fun for both sides, THAT is what behavior should be focusing all their design talent on fixing. Instead we get endless bandaids addressing the symptoms. The most recent change for Anti-camping does nothing to address the fundamental issue: killers not engaging the rest of the team while they protect their hook is boring for both sides but is very effective.
Fun is subjective. Have a farming killer and watch how half the players complain. Same goes if someone suicidedes on 5 gens and the killer doesn´t farm.
Also, the same people that complain about killers ending matches early for survivors, would happily complete all gens in 3 minutes and leave.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594070#Comment_3594070
So the Kill Rate should be absymally low at "High MMR"
It's not, spoilers.
Likewise, when I played, I won almost all of my games, you can also see this with almost any streamer. The game is sided towards whomever sweats the most, whether that be Killer or Survivor.
So the solution to play better is to just play in a Sauna. *noted*
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I´m still shocked how the whole Skull Merchant concept got green lighted while the devs try to find a way to reduce 3 genning.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592213#Comment_3592213
Killer side
- Slow down
- Aura
- Chase
- Hex
Killers dont need much info, only survivors' aura needed. Mean they only pick 1 single strongest info perk, still have 3 slots for others.
Chase perks if being strong will be insanely oppressive. Survivors can not recover before killers turning back to them. Devour hope is one example that giving Exposed, survivors fall hard after killers have 3 stacks. And that is 1 perk, being a Hex. Image 4 chasing perks, then how long a chase will last?
Not talk about HexSlowdown, in fact, are quite safe to balance of them all, add extra few seconds or take away will not hurt. Plus it doesnt force killers to play a certain style, just chase-down-hook however killers like and the perks work along with it. Simple to use and balance.
On survivor side
- Aura
- Chase/2nd chance
- Gen buff
- Healing buff
Healing buff is pointless if killer tunnel, other wise, they're nice. There were healing meta (CoH), was it fine? Not.
Aura, there are so many useful aura perks yes, but survivors need alot of difference aura perks for all the info they need (able to see teammates, pallets, Gens, Killers, Totem, Chest...) Should those perks get buff to make it meta? And how much buff to make aura perks replace the current meta? Then everything become useless with Ultimate Weapon in play.
Should they make Gen perks meta? Certainly not.
A survivor may not do Gen/Heal an entire match, but they will always getting chased. Chase perks will always be meta, unless it get totally destroyed like DS
Ideally all perks would be equally strong. Or at least on a similar power level. Giving players the choice of either taking a bit of everything or stack perks to be especially good in 1 thing. I would even go as far and add another section of perks. Counter perks. Which don´t do much on their own, but excel at countering other perks. (insidious and distortion would fall under this list)
Aura reading on killer was nice. We barely see those anymore. With the exception of some Huntress players.
Chase also sees little action. Or can you remember the last time you played against Enduring + Spirit Fury combo?
Hex perks are well...Slowdown perks seem to be the last resort of killers that struggle with gen speed. Thats why they stack them.
Aura reading on survivor is still very nice. Bond is one of my favorite perks as solo. WoO also sits on place 1 of the most used perks.
Chase perks like MfT, SB, Lithe and recently Background player are present in every match. MfT so overwhelmingly, that the devs needed to act.
Second chance perks are still powerful, but dropped hard in the pick rate, because they are not abusable anymore. Because lets face it, DS wasn´t exactly healthy for the longest part of its existance. It was one of those perks that carried. BT became basekit, OtR still strong (don´t understand why its pick rate is low).
Healing was ok, but got nerfed because everyone was just self healing with CoH or SC. I remember how i chased teammates with We´ll make it and they simply refused to get healed, so they could heal themselves. In other words, it got nerved because there was no teamplay.
I think buffing all totem involved perks would be a start in the right direction. Since we have a load of perks that revolve around finding/dealing with totems. That see no action at all.
Gens fly so fast, because survivors have literally nothing else to do. They won´t heal, they won´t cleanse Hex perks. There are just Gens to do. Once survivors spend more time doing something else than gens, killers won´t feel forced to stack slowdown. Which opens up a new, open meta.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592159#Comment_3592159
Well they can’t exactly change the meta. Killers will always stack slowdown, survivors will always choose things to prolong chase.
WHy not?
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Hex perks were supposed to be "high risk, high reward" perks.
Still looking for that high reward part on a perk thats usually gone in the first 60 seconds of the match.
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The problem with "playing nice" is, that someone would expect a nice chat after the match. Or maybe a thx. But the best case szenario you get is everyone instantly leaving the chat, without even saying gg. Worst case szenario "reported for farming, enjoy your ban".
Which kinda makes people not want to play "nice" and play just how they want to play.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591910#Comment_3591910
Nah, there always will be meta perks even if they make all perks so close to each other.
Some perks will be easier to use and will be meta.
Some perks will have little more value and will be meta.
There is no way to make any game with non-meta.
So best thing we can hope is making meta perks balanced and healthy which is current meta we have.
Sure, there will always be a meta. But every game that has a meta, usually changes the meta over the years. To keep things fresh and interesting.
Sadly, the current meta isn´t fresh or interesting. Its stale.