Tsulan
Tsulan
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- Tsulan
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457135#Comment_2457135
I was fairly certain that gen speeds used to be more Survivor-sided back when I started. I could be mistaken, it happens, but I think it used to be slightly shorter. I know for a fact that great skill checks used to bump 5% and now are at 2% or less.
Toolbox strategy has changed, yes, but objectively they have been nerfed. A gray toolbox used to last an entire generator. Yellow and green could last for more than one. Throw in add-ons and put three people with toolboxes on a generator and it was done in the blink of an eye. If three people found each other and found multiple gens before you caught up to them it was game over.
When was Prove Thyself buffed? I'm not discrediting you or saying that you're wrong - only that I was not aware! Last I knew they had nerfed it but I've not checked on Prove Thyself in a bit. I'd love a link/quote/explanation so I don't make the same mistake again! 😊
I completely agree about perks, I'd love to see this game in a place where Survivors didn't have to bring x perks and Killers didn't have to bring x perks. As it stands there is a hard and fast meta build or two which are kind of required to have the easiest/most efficient games. Sadly, that's just how it is for both sides right now. If gen speeds are where the trouble is lying for you then run the speed perks and keep developing your strategies until you can substitute one or two for something else.
Hang in there and good luck!
Gen repair speed has been like this since patch 1.5.0. Great skill checks were nerfed from 2% bonus to 1% bonus progression.
Prove Thyself is a Teachable Perk unique to Dwight Fairfield. It can be unlocked for all other Characters from Level 35 onwards: Perk descriptions may vary from in-game descriptions for reasons explained here.Perks support Mouse-over functionality (desktop version only): hovering over the modifier words with your cursor will reveal the values behind them.On mobile browsers, the values are displayed in small text after the modifier words. Desktop users experiencing issues with the mouse-over mayGen speeds aren´t the problem. The problem is that survivors don´t have anything else to do and can finish all gens in less than 4 minutes. Where is the fun in that? A secondary obligatory objective is needed instead of longer gen times. Because holding m1 for lets say 120 seconds would be boring af.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
As others have said the answer lies in a few different things! The first being to use slowdown perks. The second being to not stay in a chase for so long unless you're certain you're going to get a hit/down in. Gen speeds are slower than they used to be. Tool boxes have been nerfed into oblivion - a purple tier toolbox with top grade add-ons doesn't even last for a single gen. Prove Thyself has been nerfed. Great skill checks have been nerfed into insignificance.
That's not to say that these changes didn't need to happen (god, old toolboxes were so broken). But the point is that the devs have already nerfed gen progress as far as they feasibly can and have given Killers a variety of perks that they can run. Grind for the perks that fit your playstyle and apply them to your favorite Killer(s) and you'll do just fine. 😊
Gen speeds per se haven´t changed. They were 80 seconds for a single survivor 3 years ago and they are 80 seconds now. Toolboxes are more of a endgame thing. Survivors can significantly increase their repair speed with the last gen, by using toolboxes. Since they have less charges but a higher speed bonus.
Prove Thyself was buffed. Not nerfed. It now compensates the malus of multiple survivors on the same gen.
Killers shouldn´t be forced to take 3 or 4 gen slowdown perks just to stand a chance.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457103#Comment_2457103
So camping and tunnelling are objectively better tactics according to you and you want to not rebalance them with normal play, but instead just make survivors weaker against them?
If camping and tunnelling are the best tactics now, they'll be the best tactics if gens take longer.
I think we are having 2 different conversations here. You speak about making camping easier. I speak about making gen rush harder.
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@ZaroktheImmortal said:
I mean one that's good without camping or tunneling or any of those cheap moves. I just had one against a tier 1 nurse and f me that was something. Though I died I have to respect them. They played well didn't camp or tunnel but were just that good as nurse.
I´ve have a tournament level nurse in my friendslist. Tried to play against him once. Never again 😅
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457025#Comment_2457025
It's 2 kills -or better-.
And we weren't talking about balance one post ago, we were talking about what killer players would do. So if camping guarantees that you cannot lose, why not keep doing it?
No, we are talking about adding another objective so killers don´t feel as pressured as they do now. Killers camp&tunnel because if they don´t they won´t get any kills. Most of my matches the killer loses 2 or 3 gens before he gets his first hook; 3-4 hooks by the time the gates are powered and 0-1 kills at the endgame screen. All this when the killer doesn´t camp&tunnel.
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457047#Comment_2457047
What is the debate here? killer downs one survivor, takes him to basement, camps to death. that's it, it's broken and boring and only bubba is very efficent with it
The debate here is how many hooks a non camping killer would get in comparison to a camping killer.
If it turns out that they get the same amount of "hooks", then... well...
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457021#Comment_2457021
I wonder if he only got those hooks because he camped all game. Cant pressure gens when you're camping with insidious.
Side by side comparision of my solo survivor matches on red ranks.
According to the hook counter, he got the exact same amount of hooks as a non camping killer would have gotten.
Shocking, i know!
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457028#Comment_2457028
You put it very well. Undeniably my love of pop is because for a second it feels like im beating back the incredible stress of losing my objective, and i'd probably love it a lot less if i actually had more options. Though sadly i doubt that will ever change anytime soon, BHVR seems very intent on balancing around the sanity obliterating time crunch that is playing killer at the moment. So i suppose we'll have to keep clutching the 4 or so decent regression perks we've got
Yeah, nothing will change as long as we keep using those weak perks. Devs will think they are meta, so they don´t need buffs (maybe they even come to the comclusion that they need nerfs.)
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457024#Comment_2457024
Not like we have much better slowdown outside of ruin right? Guess i just really like it. Wouldn't be suprised if it was confirmation bias, i just feel naked without it equipped. So many moments i see a nearly done generator and think "i could've prevented that gen from completing with pop"
Thats the whole point. Gen slowdown perks are trash. But since killers struggle so much with gen speeds, they take anything that might give them even just a couple more seconds of gen time.
It shouldn´t be like that. Killers should also get meaningful perks and use them to adapt their playstyle. Not to squeeze just a few seconds out of a desperate match.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2457006#Comment_2457006
Anything that slows survivors down buffs camping. Giving them another objective they need to do on top of 80 seconds per gen on 5 gens is a buff to camping.
Every survivor camped to death takes 120 seconds, so in that 120 seconds, the other survivors need to be able to finish the game. If you give them more to do, they won't make it within those 120 seconds, so the killer gets another kill. This is already precarious at the moment.
So following your logic, the killer would get 2 kills.
Isn´t that the balance the devs strive for?
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So the killer wants to secure a 2 kill after only getting 4 hooks during the entire match (or maybe it was just 2 hooks and he also camped the first one).
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456965#Comment_2456965
I disagree pretty heavily, i use pop on every one of my killers and its saved me so many games. Theres basically no other perk in the game i have such a loving relationship with compared to pop. I think its incredibly underrated, people really don't give it the credit it deserves, plus considering it isn't a hex its basically one of the only perks in the game that can significantly reduce a generators progress and you are guaranteed to get it at some point since it synergizes with your only objective. I highly reccomend you run it for a bunch of games, i think everybody should. Its a perk i really think more people would love if they stopped being afraid that it won't pull through.
Oh i ran it. I also counted the times i got some uses out of it. Since that was dissapointing, i started to compare it to streamers using it.
Most of them kick the gen once or twice per match. Which means, that they also didn´t get any significant benefit out of it.
Just count how often you use it. Now consider if you are dominating because of it, or despite of it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456861#Comment_2456861
And I disagree. I don't think that buffing camping will make people camp less.
Giving survivors another objective isn´t buffing camping.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
If you equip pop, all killers have time to kick gens. It more than makes up for the time you'll take to walk over and kick the gen, its a great perk.
I don´t agree. Killers that get some significant amount of kicks out of pop, usually don´t need it anyway, because they already get enough hooks. On the other hand, killers that would need the regression of pop, don´t get enough hooks to make a difference.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456803#Comment_2456803
We don't see a lot of insidious basement Bubbas because Insidious isn't that helpful.
And we don't see that many campers because camping overall isn't that effective.
But if you slow survivors down, camping goes from 'guaranteed 1k, decent chance at 2k, low chance of even better' to 'guaranteed 2k, decent chance at 3k or better'.
And at that point, why bother playing any other way?
But you just recognized yourself. That Insidious Basement Bubba would be very effective.
The reason why we see so few killers playing that way, is the same reason why we won´t see a rise of camping killers once survivors have a additional objective.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456772#Comment_2456772
No, I'm talking about how effective Bubba is in regards to camping. It's why Bubba players are more likely to camp, and campers are more likely to play Bubba. Because it's easier.
So, despite Insidious Basement Bubba being the easiest and most effective way to get kills. We barely see Insidious Basement Bubbas.
Now, when we apply this to a secondary objective, the exact same thing would happen: We won´t see a sudden rise of more campers/tunnelers because its easier. The numbers will stay where they are or (what is more likely) lower, since killers won´t feel the NEED to tunnel/camp.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456740#Comment_2456740
No. Because that's still not very effective.
Compare it with basement Bubba, or facecamp bubba in general.
But you just said, that Insidious doesn´t make the killer invisible...
So, do you see many Insidious basement Bubbas?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456690#Comment_2456690
Insidious doesn't turn you invisible though. It's extremely ineffective.
Do you see many basement Wraiths?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456606#Comment_2456606
And what support do you have for the claim that people won't use the easiest methods for them to get a victory?
To stay with the Insidious analogy... Which undoubtly is the easiest (and most boring) way to get kills.
Do you see a lot of Insidious killers?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455174#Comment_2455174
No, but "these changes encourage killers to stop playing nice since those methods will guarantee wins with a quarter of the effort" is.
Just like Insidious would encourage killers to camp?
Sure, there will be a few that won't play nice no matter what. But the majority of the killers will play nicer, simply because they won't feel forced to tunnel out someone asap.
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It doesn't prevent anything.
A killer who wants to tunnel out that claudette, will tunnel out that claudette. Doesn't matter if there is a counter or not.
Meanwhile, a killer who doesn't want to tunnel can easily kill a survivor "accidentally". Because he doesn't know who was hooked once or twice.
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Why is it scummy? Survivors want to enjoy their gen repair simulator. That Wraith let's them.
Even more, when the killer doesn't constantly get hooks for one reason or another. The survivors won't slow down. They'll push out gens until all are completed. Then suddenly it's not a problem, huh?
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456441#Comment_2456441
It's not wrong. I'm not talking about kill rates and escapes. Tunneling does happen more. I play both sides equally. Just because a few gens get done quickly does not mean the game is over. Killers are the power role except when they face experienced SWFs that communicate.
Oh so because you get tunneled, the killer is the power role? Take a wild guess on why killers tunnel after losing 60% of the gens during a single (not even long) chase.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456430#Comment_2456430
I feel it's important to play both side to understand the tactics.
I played a few Killer games, and if I avoid tunneling/slugging, I get it's been used. I'm still unhappy about being tunneled but I understand that the Killer saw the generators being completed too quickly for them and they wanted to secure a kill.
Securing the kill is simply a way to slowdown the gens.
Killers feel pressured when survivors complete 40-60% of their objective. While the killer just completed a mere 8% of his objective.
That's what's fundamentally broken with the game. Why does the single player have to complete 12 objectives, when the group of 4 players just needs to complete 5.
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@Rey_512 said:
POV: I played my first ever Twins game this week and there was a TTV streamer in my match. I chased him first and hooked him, then planted Charlotte near the hook (not facecamping distance) to use Victor. Found someone healthy and pounced with Victor successfully. At the same time, the TTV got rescued so I went back to the hook. At this point, the rescuer hid somewhere because I looked around a bit first and didn’t see them immediately so I followed the blood and scratch marks instead… found TTV again and hooked him. When I watched the VOD after the game, at that moment found him he calls me a “POS tunneler”, “trash killer”, etc. I also saw his rescuer’s aura crouching nearby hiding.
Later on in the match after hooking someone else I find the TTV with Victor and pounce him. He proceeds to resorting to holding Victor hostage for the rest of his time in the game. After I decide to chase him I down him then pick up to hook. Before I can hook he disconnects to “deny the sacrifice”. In the result screen he sees I’m console and then says “why are all console killers trash tunnelers” or something.
I hope this can be a lesson to survivors to: A) if you rescue someone without BT, at least try to distract the killer and take hits… and B) if you feel you’re getting tunneled, maybe it’s because your TEAM is hiding. Don’t expect a killer to let you go if you’re the only one he sees.
Survivors don't take this kind of lessons. Because in their eyes they did nothing wrong.
Furthermore, the behavior of the survivors will unavoidably lead to 2 outcomes:
- normal playing killers that don't tunnel will end up tunneling. Because they get the toxic messages no matter what.
- or they get fed up and stop playing the killer role.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455433#Comment_2455433
It actually did get worse because of DS nerf. No, killer is absolutely the power role already unless you're facing a 4 man on comms, but how often does that happen? Killers will need to get adjusted if new objectives are added. You can't leave Spirit, Blight, and Nurse in the game exactly as they are if a secondary objective is added. It would be overkill. This would kill solo survivor.
That's plain wrong. Dev stats showed the kill/escape rate of DS users before and after the nerf.
They don't wary.
Killers haven't been the power role in a very long time. Don't believe me? Just play killer and enjoy your "power" when 2-3 gens get done by the time you get your first hook.
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@Luckyz17 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456379#Comment_2456379
I dont understand that honestly. The game is just so not enjoyable to play like that, not to mention tonight has had some of the worst slugging ive seen as of late. Legit downing and leaving survivors constantly. I am sitting here de-pipping and de-ranking every single game.
Yeah that's the reason why the matchmaking tries to compensate the number difference between survivors and killers: it also isn't fun for killers.
Survivors figured out how easy it is to escape by just sticking to gens and since killers don't have any real tools to slowdown the match, they end up slugging, tunneling and camping.
It's as fun for them as it is for you.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455242#Comment_2455242
I encountered a lot of tunneling and camping killers during that time. Tunneling and camping got much worse when DS was nerfed, not when undying was changed. At least in my games. They would need to nerf killers if a second objective was added.
Why would killers need to be nerfed? I could understand your argument when killers and survivors were balanced. But survivors already are the power role. This change would be an attempt to make killer more enjoyable. To make it less stressful. Just like the survivor role is.
Tunneling and camping didn´t get any worse after DS was nerfed. Because after all, DS still protects against tunneling, just like it did before. The only people that complained about the DS nerf, was the survivor mains that weaponized it.
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Since Satan wears a suit and looks smocking hot, i have to ask: Do YOU wear a suit and look smocking hot?
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443215#Comment_2443215
Lets not pretend killers wouldn't still do it if a secondary objective was added, lol. They would absolutely need nerfed.
I don´t have to pretend. It was actually a fact that killers didn´t tunnel or camp during the short period where Undying Ruin was a useful combo. Simply because a camping or tunneling killer wouldn´t have gotten any benefit from it.
Sure, you might always encounter that one basement bubba. Just as we always encounter that one clown who plays on the PTB.
But that isn´t the norm.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2448623#Comment_2448623
I play in red ranks and my experience is pretty close to the OP's. I even main Legion and Pig... I don't use addons either.
You don´t get toxic comments on your profile for maining Legion? Thats a bold statement.
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May i suggest playing more killer? Your experience will change drastically the higher you get.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2448497#Comment_2448497
God I wish that was the same experience for me.
I've had a lot more killers send me toxic messages in endgame chat than survivors- though I will admit survivors like going to profiles more.
People are going out of their way to try to shame guilt other players. Its the first game, where i´ve experienced this.
There is no other pvp game, where other players would stalk my profile for days and leave toxic messages.
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@[Deleted User] said:
When I play killer, I only play Myers.
So...I play with a different perspective. I focus on hits. Every time I hit a survivor, 👍🏾.
And that ALWAYS LEADS to sacrifices. Because I'm not focused on sacrifices, just the little steps that lead to it.
Myers has many...limitations. but you can still have fun! Regardless of the killer.
My point is, a change of perspective can be very helpful. It's helped me, and hopefully it helps you. I have a blast playing killer.
*It's also VERY difficult to play survivor. Lobby wait times are around 15 minutes. Versus 2 or 3 minutes to play killer!*
Its not difficult to play survivor. Thats the reason why they have longer queues.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2447594#Comment_2447594
correct me if im wrong but do we not get "toxic genrushing SWF" and "toxic tunneling killers" at least 7 times a day on these forums?
Its not only about the forum. But the private messages/profile comments that we get.
When i play survivor, i maybe get 1 toxic message from a killer per year.
When i play killer, i get a comment on my profile in half of my matches. Hell, i even got toxic messages, when the game didn´t load and ended in the scorescreen.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2445325#Comment_2445325
Ah, ok, that makes more sense. Still wish there was some kind of validator, as they said they'd implement.
I´ve seen that more and more often. Both from the survivors and killers perspective. When teammates get downed, but don´t get hooked.
Devs should implement a autokick when the ping passes a certain treshold.
Because the main selling point for dedicated servers was to prevent killers from lag switching.
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Its their ping. When its so high, the killer gets stuck/can´t pick her up.
In other words: Laurie lag switched.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444978#Comment_2444978
So stupid lol so now are they just gonna delete them from the game?? 😂😂
They want to give them a natural flow during the match. So we probably can expect something like: "get 11 hooks before the last gen is completed to unlock the mori animation"
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444988#Comment_2444988
Assuming a skill based system in a game where the maps and resources on said maps are down to RNG is even going to work, which it won’t
But it worked for most of the playerbase.
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Are you asking for buffs or nerfs? This isn´t exactly clear here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2445022#Comment_2445022
Well, the game showing you hit them but also not hitting them is not fair but i feel like a lot of the time before, you could get stunned before the attack would actually land.
That still happens. Because the killer didn´t get the hit.
But now, the hit goes through, the killer ends the hit animation, blood splatters, survivor screams, while the survivor starts the pallet throw animation (hands on pallet). But the hit doesn´t register.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444815#Comment_2444815
Yeah i hate the pallet change, even though i think it's more fair.
Whats fair about that?
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They actually plan removing the ranks once the skill based matchmaking goes live.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
As we all surely know by now a key rework was said to be coming the december of 2020, nearly 8 months ago. This alleged incoming rework was said to come soon after the mori rework (Which did a great job at fixing a big issue) but just never came. By now im sure most players have added it to the massive mountain of broken promises from BHVR, but i still think about it often. Will the rework ever see the light of day, or was it just more petty PR talk from BHVR? I have little faith it will ever actually happen, personally.
4 out of 5 people didn´t like moris.
4 out of 5 people like keys.
That´s why keys have such a low priority. I expect some more information on the next anniversary stream.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444720#Comment_2444720
New mori system as in how it is now, or they are going to change it again?
They´ll change it again, because moris are toxic. (they really said that).
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The pallet changes hurt a lot. You can hit a survivor through the pallet, hear the scream but it won't register. The stund area also seems to be bigger than before.
Pallets are save areas again and on top of that, double pallets are back.
Meanwhile gens go so fast that the killer usually loses between 2 and 3 gens in the first or a later chase.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444219#Comment_2444219
Hey Tsulan, can you respond to this comment? It's on the first page towards the bottom — I'll appreciate it if you responded!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444108#Comment_2444108
B
Would lead to tense situations. Because the killer would see the light and search the exit area for the survivor. But could be baited by only opening until the first light and leaving the area for the other gate. (High risk, high reward situation)
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No
Yes
Yes
No
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Wraith was underpowered for years. Finally he got some long needed buffs and survivors instantly want him nerfed.
God beware we see other viable killers than nurse and spirit.
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@KblokoBR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443963#Comment_2443963
I think they should have to worry to other problems that are more basic, like old af bugged nurse blink, bugged blight dash, this way fixing the basics, and looking to ways of really balance the game, and then for last balance mathmaking.
The issue with old bugs is the spaghetti code. Which is probably why they haven't fixed it.
So far the sbmmr was great. Most people had a enjoyable experience instead of the sweat fest we have now.