Tsulan
Tsulan
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468588#Comment_2468588
We just had a test a few weeks ago and this was exactly my experience playing survivor. Almost every match was Blight with 4 slowdown perks, alchemists ring and blighted crow or strongest build on nurse.. This test was recent so why do you think people are lying about it?
Not at all my experience. Faced a lot of different killers while having competent teammates in solo queue.
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@Crypticghoul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468520#Comment_2468520
You seem to misunderstand. It's not a matter of "too hard." It's a matter of playing at a higher level in DBD is not enjoyable at all and we all know Behaviour won't suddenly balance it or make it more fun, despite saying they will.
I mean, dude, it took them 4 years to make it so that you couldn't couple Iridescent Head with Infantry Belt... A change that literally anyone could tell them was necessary on day one and required very little effort.
Playing at a higher skill level and playing with iri hatchets are mutually exclusive...
Juuust saying.
The last MMR test gave me hope that this would work. Both my survivor and killer matches were far better than what i have now.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468515#Comment_2468515
Yeap. Nice and "fair" matches with 4 hooks and all gens being done... Balance
If you have continously matches with 4 hooks, then the sbmmr will adapt your rating and match you with weaker and weaker surivivors until you get more than 4 hooks.
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@Crypticghoul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468476#Comment_2468476
No, if I wanted to roflstomp noobs I would play Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer Blight/Nurse/Wraith with good addons with the current system. What I want is more relaxed 12 hook games where I don't feel like I have to run meta just to avoid having groups of survivors be incredibly toxic with nothing you can do about it (not that it doesn't happen now but it's rarer than my experience with SBMM). Higher MMR means more body blocking, meta perks, voice chat, less time wasted not doing gens, etc if you play a weaker killer with a weaker build.
Well thats exactly what you´ll get. Matches on your skill rating. That will be challenging but won´t be to hard.
If its to hard, then the sbmmr will soon change your rating until you face more players of your actual skill rating. Because the rating autocorrects itself after each match. So you won´t end up in "elo hell"
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468275#Comment_2468275
Mostly I don't want to play a game knowing I'm going to be punished for playing the game in a non-optimal way for however many games it takes to get my less viable killers MMR to a place where I'm allowed to have fun with them again. That sounds extremely not fun and punishing. Do I agree my MMR will likely be boosted? Absolutely, I'm not as good a killer as the current system claims I am. But I'm very much not willing to play 5-10 games of my favorite less powerful killers where I get destroyed just to maybe have fun again later. That's the part about this system that I'm dreading, and depending on how slow it adjusts may kill my enjoyment of killer entirely.
You´ll get nice and fair matches. Not what we have now.
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@justad00d said:
My experience with SBMM as killer was bad. Games were more unevenly matched IMO.
I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet of data from playing my main Legion with the last 300 something games recorded. After this goes live, I’ll make a separate spreadsheet and try to compare the results.
Right now i´m trying to learn Twins. In my last match i got 4 hooks and a depip. Because i play on red ranks against red ranks.
With SBMMR activated, this wouldn´t be an issue. You could learn a new killer in your pace, instead of being stomped.
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@Crypticghoul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468464#Comment_2468464
That's exactly the issue. The problem with DBD is that "fair games" at the higher level are not enjoyable whatsoever and I doubt Behaviour will suddenly fix this with SBMM in place. I'd much rather play with average players and play Clown with meme perks than play Blight/Nurse with Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer just to not get smashed and BM'd all game.
So you will stop playing, because you can´t roflstomp noobs anymore? Do i understand this right?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468409#Comment_2468409
Yes. Let's pretend it's that. And not how unbelievably miserable killer is at the highest levels. How broken gen speeds and maps are at the highest levels
I never claimed that the killer experience isn´t miserable at the highest level. But as the post says, they want to use the data to balance the game exactly around those 5% highest skill rate players.
Thats a good thing
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468260#Comment_2468260
that's meaningless since they don't balance the game for those players. Good players will always abuse the broken stuff until there's no broken stuff to be abused. If they make playing survivor harder the vast majority of survivor players will not rank up.
But they said they would.
It might be the balance shift we (at least i) have been waiting for.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468292#Comment_2468292
There's no way they don't know the issues the top %'s face.
Yeah streamers have a good reason for being against SBMMR. Because then they suddenly won´t be able to show their "watch me get 50 4ks in a row" streams. Because they will actually face players at a similar skill level.
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@H1GHLVND3R said:
what is SBMM?
Skill based matchmaking.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468323#Comment_2468323
Well, the thing is that most of the people I play with and against currently don't play "meta" all the time. I played some survivor yesterday and faced a bunch of different killers, running different perks and add ons, and playing in different ways. And when I played killer the survivors were similar, all had different builds and playstyles. There was some stuff that was more or less fun than others, but for the most part every match was different.
The last MMR test was like the same really sweaty match over and over. So yeah, it was very much different for me.
What makes you think that you won´t face different loadouts/killers with the SBMMR activated?
Current matches are sweat compared to the last SBMMR Test.
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@xenotimebong said:
I'm so excited to play against full slowdown meta killers every match and get tunnelled off hook over and over. :) I think I'll be uninstalling DBD again when 5.2.0 goes live.
How is that different from the current meta?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468292#Comment_2468292
There's no way they don't know the issues the top %'s face.
Then they will finally get conclusive data and be able to fix this.
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@Pulsar said:
I am...not.
Survivor was fun. Decent teammates and decent Killers.
Killer was miserable.
Maybe your rating was to high? It should lower the more you play with it activated.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468114#Comment_2468114
Do you mean Survivors hand you 80% kill rate? Well you just need to work on the other 20%
Thats not what i meant.
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*held m1 until all gens were completed*
"We absolutely destroyed the killer!"
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467895#Comment_2467895
Theres an issue with that though. BHVR NEEDS to be transparent about what is considered a win, the playerbase needs to be aware of what the system is counting. Otherwise whats the point of the MMR system? It works in other games because players have a tangible idea of how to rank up, why they should rank up, and what ranking up means. When they rank up they are aware of why they did it, so they become aware of what kind of opponents they are going to face. Say 10 wins makes me bronze MMR, i'll know i'll face other players who also have 10 wins. This is good, because i'll never feel cheated out of a victory, it'll be entirely on me for losing because were both of the same skill level. However with a "silent" mmr this is not the case, i have only an incredibly rough idea of what my enemies are capable of, and will often feel cheated out of a victory because i will be unaware of if i was fairly paired against these people or a flawed MMR win condition matched me against people way above my skill level.
A silent MMR is not a good thing, because it both lacks transparency and leads to player frustration. We should be aware of how we are ranking up, just like we are now.
You will still pip and rank up like you do right now. Only difference is, that those ranks only serve to reward you points at the end of the month.
But the ranks will have no influence on the players you are matched with. So you will know when you won. But it doesn´t show how it affects your "elo". Or where you stand in comparison to others.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467895#Comment_2467895
Okay but how am I supposed to improve if I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
You still get awarded points and you will rank up every month.
You should also play with competent teammates and face killers of your skill level. Which should result in a better experience as we have now.
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You want to play a killer that gets a lots of hits and chases. Insta down killers like Myers are poison for your rank. Go for Legion or Trickster instead. It will be much easier to pip.
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@C3Tooth said:
A little reminding.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4WFDE37GK7WS/image.png
Killers who aim for 80% kill rate, facing Survivors who aim for 80% escape rate. Is this simple enough?
Greatest threat for 80% kill rate killers are survivors.
Greatest threat for 80% escape rate survivors aren´t killers but other survivors.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467937#Comment_2467937
Would you want a high MMR? If not which incentive would change that or is there none?
For example: more bloodpoints or XP (shards) for high mmr-games, visible rank to show your experience or cosmetics rewards.
The Skill Based Matchmaking is about having fun while still feeling challenged. I wouldn´t want to stomp noobs all day. I also wouldn´t want to get rofl stomped all day. Having nice a fair matches would be enough for me.
Bloodpoints aren´t an incentive for me. Because you can get them with normal gameplay. Auric Cells would be an incentive. Since there is no way to get them apart from paying real money.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467880#Comment_2467880
They like to leave out that chases are only fun when they have the advantage, two health states, multiple second chance perks available and plenty of resources are left on the map. They don’t like chases when it interferes with their objective, the killer is doing a good job and they’re all on deaths door.
If they truly enjoyed chases, as they claim, they’d never complain about Tinkerer.
I admit, i also like chases. What i don´t like is running in circles. Some people think, that running 12 times around the same pallet is a good chase. But that just feels boring. A good chase should go over several tiles and allow both sides to mindgame.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467931#Comment_2467931
Oh okay, yeah I remember that, though honestly that's really not too much of a nerf.
I mean, sure it can take off the ability to chase/down a Survivor sometimes and THEN kick the gen and hook the new Survivor and kick another gen right after, which was nice, but I still almost always get that Pop kick in if I remember that I am running it!
My issue with Pop is that I always forget that I'm running it all together hahah xD
No one would have complained about the pop nerf, if it wasn´t for the reason the devs gave: "because killers can do to much other stuff during that minute".
Especially since DS has a 60 second timer which is ok.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467880#Comment_2467880
I hate how this forum can just delete a full thing of text.. ok time to repeat myself.
Chases are the fun part about this game, it's why people give killers with very little chase interaction like Spirit a lot of crap.
My point still stands that if old Undying was still in the game people would still feel like they "have" to run 4 slowdown perks. No matter what they do to gens to increase their time to be completed, 4 slowdown perks is the meta and people would continue to use it. Changing Undying is not the reason our meta is the way it is and the game would be in a worse place overall if it stayed the same.
The meta is just the meta. If the devs removed all gen slowdown perks tomorrow and nerfed gen speeds extremely hard, there would still be perks that people feel they "have" to run because this game will never be properly balanced.
I mean, if they reversed the Undying change, i would run Undying Ruin as killer and Small Game/Detectives Hunch as survivor. Despite all the complaints about the Undying Ruin meta, i had a lot of fun during that time. I remember a match where i cleansed 5 hex totems alone. While my team took turns on the hook. They made no effort to do gens and instead farmed each other in front of the killer. Later they complained about "OP Combo".
The way i see it, they either have to nerf gen speed, give survivors an additional objective or have to buff the gen slowdown perks. But keeping it the way it is now, is just sad.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467895#Comment_2467895
Yh some will atleast get pretty close with testing.
But whats your opinion about the three topics?
- "Farming" the survivor for the win condition after killing one early
- 4k and it counts as a lose
- both sides win or lose at the same time
- farming the survivors for the win condition would make the game harder in the long run.
- 4k lose would become boring fast
- you stay were you are. Which is either elo hell or elo heaven.
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People complain when i call the current gen speed as the root cause of camping.
Here´s the proof how gen speed changes the killers behavior.
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Its better to keep the win conditions a secret. That way no one will abuse the system.
But honestly? Some people will quickly figure out what the win conditions are... so...
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@Hex_Llama said:
Am I the only one who likes to do totems?
I agree it sucks to feel like you don't have a choice about which perks you run, because you just get destroyed if you try to do something fun.
No, you´re not alone. I also like hunting totems. But i noticed that the spawns got easier to find over time.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467793#Comment_2467793
I have no immediate problem with them. You mentioned that now people only run 4 gen slowdown perks. No chase, healing or end game perks. All I'm saying is before the Undying change this was still the case. The Undying change has nothing to do with why people feel the need to run 4 slowdown perks. If people want to win by any means, then they'll run the best perks which are all slowdown.
I personally like the direction they took with Undying since it gave Devour Hope a lot more reason to be run. Ruin never is suppose to last the whole game and that happened far too often with old Undying.
Thats where you are wrong. The devs called Ruin a "endgame perk" that "applies gen pressure when there are only a few gens left". But Ruin never lasts on its own until the later stages of the match.
When asked about whats fun, survivors said: chases are fun. However, tracking perks to get more chases are not viable, because killers "have" to stack slowdown perks in order to squeeze out a few more seconds out of a match.
In other words: the current gen rush (or doing gens efficiently) meta ruins the fun for both sides.
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@C3Tooth said:
4 Slow down perks is boring. Just run 4 Exposed perks or End game perks.
I prefer to play a fast Gen game that constantly being exposed or stuck with unable to open Gates when Noed is in play.
I can 3-4k with under 6 hooks as Trapper with End game build. Most killer care about 4k, 4 hooks can be a 4k. Isnt that what you're looking for?
Killers shouldn´t get a 4k with a bare minimum of hooks. 12 hooks would be idially the best option as everyone would have a nice match with playtime and bloodpoints. Wouldn´t you agree?
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@CashelP14 said:
Those days where you needed to cleanse Ruin 4 times..
Main problem I had with it was even though those 2 perks were very very strong people still run Tinkerer, Corrupt, Pop etc with it. They'd also run it on killers like Hag, Nurse, Spirit etc.
The strongest perks in this game are gen slowdown perks. If streamers/other players want to win then they'll bring 4 gen perks, even before the Undying change.
Also I personally love the new Undying change when it comes to Devour Hope.
So whats the problem of those perks you named? Pop doesn´t work until you have cleansed both undying and ruin. Corrupt is gone after 2 minutes and Tinkerer forces the killer to break chases to go to that gen thats about to get finished.
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@Torsti56 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/276799/just-noticed-something
Only problem with old Undying was that killers got to see survivors who were close to Hex totems which made it almost impossible to cleanse totems against Mint Rag Hag as a solo survivor. I would keep the dull totem aura reading and buff Undying to be as it was. It made Thrill of the Hunt completely useless.
I´ve seen survivors complain about the aura reading of old Undying. Once the respawn effect was removed, the aura reading suddenly wasn´t a problem anymore. Which shows that it never was a problem to begin with.
Why not remove the aura reading and turn the respawn effect on again? Next chapter contains 3 gen slowdown perks. So the devs see that there is an issue. Why not reverse the nerf and admit that it was a mistake?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466894#Comment_2466894
What are you on about? I'm giving you counterarguments, not discrediting your opinion. You are the one talking smack about survivor mains if anything, at which point I pointed out that it makes it seem like you care very little for survivors. That and of course that you seem to only want killer problems addressed.
I've already explained why the experiment is not representative of this game's balance, so I'll skip that now.
Huntress is map dependent, fair enough, but a good Huntress can definitely get hits with her hatchets on most maps, no matter how good they are. Survivors do have counterplay against Huntress though, that's true.
But there is not one single killer that can't use their power for multiple minutes. I fail to see how that's possible. Even with Huntress. There will always be moments where she can use her hatchets, can you give me an example where a Huntress can't use her hatchets for multiple minutes?
Of course, with a killer, you want to use both their power and M1. You want to play them as effective as possible, which Otz surely isn't doing when he is not using one of the abilities of the killer. Again, survivors being able to loop even Otz for multiple minutes, especially when they have just as much experience, on a survivor sided map like Cowshed without Otz using his power, is not a good example of balance, because no one will play a killer like that. The same goes for using only the killers power and not their M1.
BNPS are still an annoyance when multiple survivors use them, I am not going to argue with that.
And again, you seem to be derailing from the topic that was discussed, this time regarding camping. Now I do understand the motives of camping. But one of my arguments is that it's extremely unfun to go against and a cheap way of winning a game. A game certainly isn't lost after 3 gens are repaired, and if you are good with killer, 3 gens won't always get repaired after the first hook. Resorting to camping is simply a very easy and at least in some cases kind of a cheap way to somehow secure a kill, instead of playing normally. And that can't be the case anymore at the latest when survivors receive another objective.
That's what I was addressing. This has nothing to do with killers camping after 3 gens get repaired in the state the game is right now. This has to do with camping, and tunneling, becoming too powerful if a second objective was added to the game. I'm not sure why you would bring up camping as it is now in the game?
I generally don't blame killer players for camping though, I blame the game for having it be a viable strategy sometimes. In fact, there are situations where a killer is kind of required to camp, when multiple survivors are close to the hook for example, though at that point I wouldn't even call it camping anymore.
I understand that killer can feel stressful, and I would be happy if that was improved on, but that doesn't mean the game is so unbalanced. Killer is certainly more punishing, which I guess is why the game can feel more unbalanced than it actually is.
But adding a second objective without addressing camping and tunneling at all is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
To be fair, there is a small part in me that would like to see that happen, just to see if I am right about killer queue times sky rocketing. And if that was the case, at least I would get to see all the killer mains coming to the forums and complaining about how long they have to wait to play the game. The downside is that I am a killer main myself and would probably stop playing the game.
Survivor issues usually get addressed really really quickly. Just look at how quickly the Undying Ruin combo was nerfed hard and compare it to how long Unbreakable DS was a combo. We are talking about years of difference. Thats why i see killer issues ass more urgent, since survivor issues seem to have priority (sound bug anyone?).
You are right, we are getting a little off topic here, so i´ll just say that there are a couple of maps with zones where there are no lockers around. A Huntress without hatchets and a injured survivor would have to either chase said surivivor (which could be a very long chase) or break the chase completely in search for a locker. Other killers that could face the same issue: Trapper, Trickster, Oni and Myers (maybe Demo, because his ability can be dodged).
The Otz example is simply to show how a extremely experienced killer still has problems against survivors with a similar experience level. If a "normal" killer would have had this isse, people would have dismissed this, because he just needs to "git gud".
Now to losing those 3 gens in the first chase. That is extremely demotivating. A killer who loses 2 or 3 gens in the first chase will be more inclined to camp&tunnel just to secure a kill and/or slowdown the rest of the team. The problem is also, that a killer could perform great and get 2 or 3 hooks before the first gen is completed and still end up with 6 or 7 hooks because completing several gens during a chase isn´t only a phenomenom that happens during the first 2 minutes of the match. Difference is only, that survivors will get "confident" when they complete 4 gens with only 1 or 2 hooks (or even all 5 gens). At that point they might think that they will escape with a minimum of points and try to play more risky against that "weak killer". Which could lead to a snowball situation. I remember a match of a big streamer who played bubba and got 3 hooks by the time the gates were powered. The survivors then became to confident and tried to lure the now camping bubba away instead of cutting their losses and escape. This changed a 1 kill into a 4 kill. Not because he controlled the situation. Not because the game was balanced. Simply because they felt to confident and wanted to get more material for their stream compilation (he played against several streamers). Now on paper, those kills look like killers are OP. But getting so little hooks in the time the survivors complete all gens is a very bad sign. Because he only got the kills because survivors "threw" the game.
Whenever killer queues have "skyrocket" then they were usually at the normal prime time survivor queue level. Means 2-5 minutes. I checked for queue complaint threads in the past year and killer queues only went up during the 5th anniversary event. They instantly went back to normal once the event was over.
Now survivor queues on the other hand skyrocketed around the time Undying was nerfed. We had threads where people complained about lobby dodging killers. Demanding timeouts for dodging killers. Imagine how bad those queues must have been, when people wanted to force killers to play matches they didn´t want to.
It was a direct reaction to the now unstoppable gens. Killers struggled before, and the devs took a tool to slow the game down away.
So, honestly. Do you think the current gen speed aren´t a problem? Survivors complain again about NOED, because they just rush gens and forget about totems. Devs buffed No Way Out because they seem to see how fast the gens go. But instead of fixing the problem, they give killers a bandaid.
The upcoming gen slowdown perks of Pinhead are another attempt to slow the gen rush meta down. But i doubt any of those perks will become a meta or solution.
Devs need to do something about gens or a secondary objective. No one wants to hug a gen for 2 minutes. So the secondary objective would be a better alternative to increase gen times. A new objective would give killers more breathing room to change their loadout instead of stacking gen slowdown perks. Once killers don´t feel cornered anymore, they won´t camp and tunnel. Maybe a few, but we always had some basement bubbas. Those players are just a minority and unlike you think, not everyone would use that extra time to camp more.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467092#Comment_2467092
They didnt look at why killers run ruin when they nerfed it way back when. I doubt they will look now.
I remember that. The argument was that old Ruin was bad for new players. Whats their argument now, when new players don´t have access to gen slowdown?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467162#Comment_2467162
If you would have read, I talked about stacking Slowdown-Perks. Not saying about not running any Slowdown-Perks. I also use Corrupt Intervention on almost all Killers, it is not like I am not using Slowdown-Perks.
But if your build is Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Undying, PGTW, you are just trying to prolong the game to a point where the Survivors are out of/very low on ressources, which makes it very easy to catch them.
Okay okay, lets take a look at those perks:
Corrupt is gone after 2 minutes. It shifts what gens get done first and can sometimes prevent a 3 gen (bad spawn).
Pop is a "safety net" after Undying and Ruin got cleansed. The killer still needs hooks (a lot of them) to get some significant advantage out of it.
Undying and Ruin only work when the killer constantly switches targets. So unless the killer does a hit&run, he won´t get much out of it. Now WHEN he does hit&run, survivors will instantly go back to the gen they got chased away from. Often they don´t heal and prefer to finish that gen which is at 80% completion. Before they go for a heal. With that exact build, the killer can maybe squeeze out a few minutes. But it won´t be deceisive against good survivors.
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@Guest1567432 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467092#Comment_2467092
Survivors think that tunneling and camping are a problem now wait till the slow downs get a nerf, but that all depends on what the almighty "Stats" will say.
It just reminds me on how killers had to adapt to old DS by dribbling survivors. (which was nerfed)
Then killers had to adapt to flashlights by always looking at a wall, since Lightborn did nothing. Years later they finally fixed Lightborn.
I really wonder what the stats show.
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@Crowman said:
Has anything really changed? People are still complaining about ruin+undying, because they still don't want to find and cleanse hex totems despite having access to perks and even an item that makes finding them easy.
But Undying isn´t nearly as powerful as it used to be. Not even close.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, really surprised that Players went to the easiest way of playing DBD - stack Slowdown on top of Slowdown.
@EvilJoshy said:
That's every game that has a multiplayer. People notice everyone is running the same thing ever match. Someone complain for nerfs. The devs nerf it. People quickly run to what's next in line. The cycle continues.
I wonder if the devs will now nerf gen slowdown perks or instead look at the reason WHY killers stack slowdown perks.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Did they shift? Survivors still refuse to do totems to counter the build they hate that is super common.
No, what i mean is. That changing 1 perk was deemed unbearable for survivors. But killers are expected to change their whole build by stacking slowdown perks and people just are like:
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466574#Comment_2466574
I actually don't know which ranks they balance around. I mean, obviously not the top. Probably not the bottom. So, maybe 8 to 12?
They said in a stream that they balance around the majority of the playerbase. Since both sides agree, that a huge part of the survivor playerbase is simply bad (and therefore the game shouldn´t be balanced around high skill players), i´d say somewhere between rank 10 and 15.
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@chargernick85 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466841#Comment_2466841
You and @Tsulan are perfect for each other. You two balance each other out so well.
I actually also don't run Undying ruin.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466462#Comment_2466462
Ok, so now you are starting to argue against your own point.
I obviously didn't miss the point of the video. You said it yourself, it was an experiment to see how long it takes for an M1 killer without power and normal movement speed to down a survivor on one of the most survivor sided maps in the game. Alas, it is pretty much in no way representative of the game's balance, because you are stripping the power of the killer away, which is his main advantage, and to top it off, you are playing on a map that is notoriously known to be one of the most survivor sided maps.
So now tell me how I am missing the point? Because I was talking about the actual game's balance at the start, at which point you brought up this video after I said Otz is a good example of why this game isn't that survivor sided anymore. Yet that video has very little to do with the game's balance.
And furthermore, it takes longer for survivors to do all gens than 3 minutes. If the killer gets not a single hook during the match, and for whatever reason never tries to chase any other survivor off of a gen as well as applies no map pressure whatever, than maybe they'll be able to repair all gens under 3 minutes. But a killer has to play seriously bad for that to happen, especially on balanced maps. Even on maps like Cowshed, matches shouldn't go by that fast.
Also, your attempt to now blame survivors for camping and tunneling again just supports the idea that you do not care for the survivor side even in the slightest, your bias is very obvious. If there is something in the game that seems op to many people, than they are allowed to complain about it. That doesn't mean they prefer to be camped instead.
Yes, Ruin and Undying was a good combo that only really rewarded killers that didn't camp. But that doesn't mean it was completely balanced, and it's still fairly good at the moment as well. And of course there were still killers that would camp despite those perks.
And the idea that no killer would camp if killers had more time is absolutely ridiculous. You don't actually believe that, or? I am sure there are some players that would camp much less, or simply stop to camp, but there are still enough people that would continue to camp. Because if you buff killers with something like a second objective for survivors, the camping and tunneling strategies will also become stronger. And those strategies becoming even better, rewarding a killer with a win, would be absolutely awful. So we would need a second objective that doesn't buff camping and tunneling in the slightest, which would mean interaction from the killer as well. But even then, camping and tunneling will surely still profit from those buffs a bit as well. So they would need to be nerfed nevertheless. You can't expect killers getting their main problem adressed but survivors not.
I also understand that there is counterplay to camping and tunneling, but slap on NOED, and the killer will still be almost guaranteed a 2 kill every match. For extremely little effort. The counterplay also doesn't always work, and it also doesn't solve the problem that it's incredibly unfun to go against.
Not to mention that perks like BT and DS are the only real counters to that strategy. But guess what, killers have perks that counter gen speeds as well. So just use those perks. We are getting three new slowdown perks with Pinhead as well, two of them seem pretty good already. Isn't that great?
Where do I even start...
First of all, BNP still exist. While not being as strong as they used to be, they still enable survivors to complete all 5 gens in 3 minutes or less.
The experiment was important because a killer can't always use his power for one reasonor another. A huntress can be looped so tight, that she won't be able to use her power.
Otz had another experiment where he tried to down survivors only using the power. He had to use m1, because it wasn't possible for him.
Good survivors know how to loop and when even a stream powerhouse like otz has problems, then the balance is off.
Survivors shouldn't be able to complete gens in the time they complete them now. Killers struggle heavily with the current gen speed. Hell, today I've seen a streamer come up with a build that contained 4 slowdown perks. Killers shouldn't be forced to take so many slowdown perks to have a decent match.
What do killers do when they lose 3 gens in the first chase? They camp. Of course they do, because they feel cornered. Survivors would do the same if they were all on death hook.
So you try to discredit my opinion because I understand the motivation behind camping? Show me a single survivor who walks past a 90% and regressing gen. Survivors even go straight to a gen once they get off the hook. No healing until the gen is gone.
I play solo survivor on red ranks. But somehow I'm biased, because I don't agree with you.
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@MissKitty95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466667#Comment_2466667
I highly doubt that’s going to be the case 😂 one can wish
Just today i saw a streamer come up with a gen slowdown build that contained 4 slowdown perks.
Yeaaaaah, killers are desperate.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466351#Comment_2466351
It might be something I could do...
Can´t ask for more. 😎
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Killers struggle with gen control. Once that isn´t an issue, you won´t see any more gen slowdown perks.
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People are still using moris outside of dailys?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466482#Comment_2466482
But Trapper is the most picked...that explains why escape RNG got a nerf.
Trapper is also the poster boy and good at lower ranks. You know, where he doesn´t lose 4 gens by the time he set up half of his traps.
We already know around what ranks the devs balance. Don´t we?
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466165#Comment_2466165
Probably because their playstyle is so different from most normal killers. Just like hag who is very strong but quite rare to encounter.
People tend to gravitate to as simple as possible killers who are also as strong as possible. Thus the usual outcry over relative simple strong killers = wraith, freddy, spirit etc
As twins, you have to constantly manage two characters and know when and how to use them properly, make constant decision on when it's good time to slug and do it without beiing slow or missing too, you have to utilise camping well which people dislike on both sides otherwise you'll get more inefficent with your time management and probably one of the biggest contributor imo to low twins pick rate, missing as victor and getting crushed feels so incredibly bad. Killers hate when survivors bully them and baby victor (pun intended) is very easy to bully as new victors will miss and get crushed thus gen rushed all the time.
But then when you see twins mains (as rare as they are) or very experienced players who know how to play twins and how they operate, rating twins, they always rare them quite high, usually A tier or very high B tier.
Considering all that, I don't think it's weird that people wouldn't play twins very much even when they're strong. Just like nurse who used to be much easier to play but then dropped a lot in popularity because devs made her more punishing when you make a mistake.
Ok, i´ll give you the benefit of the doubt and will spend some considerable time playing them. Maybe i´m totally wrong and Twins aren´t as weak as i think.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466165#Comment_2466165
It makes way more sense than your flawed logic of thinking pick rate has anything to do with how strong a killer is.
That logic isn´t flawed. People usually prefer to play the strong, power role. A strong killer is more appealing than a weak one. Original Freddy was extremely weak and not many people played him. Especially not on red ranks. I mained him back then, and some people were happy to see something else than Nurse.