Trollinmon
Trollinmon
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384440#Comment_3384440
Against her yes but spirit is already doing fine
What about MR trapper or MS merchant who already struggle to end chases on injured survivors? They are going to be annihilated while general kill rate goes up because everyone plays meta causing probably more killer nerfs
The strong get stronger and the weak stay the same if not weaker
But the thing is that's how killer hardcore punish the don't heal and bring gen perks. You run killers that want you to stay injured.
Those killers will be fine because their hits will give good value since you will be healing. You can run stealth perks that punish players for not healing. Gen speed up would counter that but the check is higher tier killers. So at soft cap you can expect a lot of strong killers that require survivors to heal and then survivor builds need to be built around that. That will be make the the low tier killers fine because they can run stealth perks to punish and not have builds built around increasing gen speed since that strat doesn't work for the stronger killers. No reason to make a build around beating the lower tier killers and instead build for the stronger ones. The weak killers will be fine because of this.
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@Phasmamain said:
All this change does is encourage gen rushing because healing takes too much time to bother with
At most people will heal at hook with we’ll make it but otherwise nobody will bother
Get ready for more toolboxes and PT’s
And then killers run Spirit with Jolt and players find out you need to still heal if you plan on winning games
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@Aurelle said:
The healing nerfs literally encourages survivors to do gens faster. There's not gonna be a point of healing when it will take so long.
Solo survivor will get obliterated into oblivion because of the COH and base healing nerfs. Top tier survivors will just rush gens and/or play selfishly.
Survivor isn't and still won't be easy mode.
So how do you plan on winning games vs killers that get easy first hits?
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381172#Comment_3381172
technically it should, but it won't for a couple of simple reasons: adrenaline will heal you once all gens are done (this won't be a big deal to achieve with the actual genspeed and all the gen regression perks being essencially nuked, especially now that survivors will be more incentivized to bring toolboxes with them rather than medkits) and dead hard is still in the game IF you choose to play for mixed hooks, so we would probably see tunneling increased by a lot for those 2 reasons (as concequence genrush too... it's like a dog that will keep biting its tail). Either way the way that dbd is taking doesn't seems promising at all (at least for me)
The new meta for killer will be CI and healing slowdown. If you try and push gens injured vs a killer like wraith you are going to get heavily punished. Killers that are not stealth will run perks to punish players for not healing, aka stealth perks. The way you play vs stealth is to heal before you get on gens. One perk for slowing healing down and one perk to punish players for not healing is looking to be the clear direction for killer builds.
Tunneling will also not be a good idea next patch. SB+ OTR is the survivor meta perk combo and I straight up see killers lose games when trying to tunnel into it. I doubt we see much DH next patch since hit n run will be high and SB is the only perk that helps avoid the first hit vs those killers.
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Yea this right here is why soloq is unplayable. Can't wait to see survivors now last 10 seconds in chase!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383944#Comment_3383944
Mileage may vary. I never cleanse my Plaything because I'd rather deny the Pentimento stack. And then my teammates spend half the match looking for their Plaything totems when the gens could be done.
You run plaything to force the heal or quicky down them because you are now a stealth killer vs injured survivors. Strong chase killers will most likely be running Gift of Pain and Plaything. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I hope everyone likes Sloppy/Thana on 24 second heals and 90 second gens, because you're going to be seeing it every other game minimum. The devs made Forever Freddy basekit. Absolutely brilliant.
Plaything>thana
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383765#Comment_3383765
I just hope bHVR are very skeptical of the reception too, People have been saying they are planning to play foul in protest.
We already saw how they handled the 6.1 changes. Players were balling their little eyes out then and said the changes needed to be reverted. The problem was that instead of showing examples of why the changes were bad and how killers were getting large value from zone kicking(they weren't) they just said "trust me bro it's op".
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She's my only one. Basically woke up played Nurse and went to bed for 4 days straight on her release. Burnt myself out from the game by doing so.
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So you are spending money and gaining an advantage compared to not spending money. You can view that as pay to win since paying money can result in you winning more. I really don't care or classify that as pay to win as I view pay to win as needing to spend an unreasonable amount of money for that situation. Spending $5 for a killer that has perks that help me win is different in needing to spend 500. If I spend 1k on dbd and you spend 30 am I stronger than you if we both have the same skill? The answer to that is no. However If I spend 0 and you spend 30 the answer is yes.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383499#Comment_3383499
Can't wait for the 6.1.0 phenomenon to repeat where no one will run DH for 2 weeks before it becomes the most used perk again. I hope BHVR are ready to nerf it again, if necessary.
I don't think that will happen. Running DH makes you have no exhaustion early game. And then if the killer eats your DH and leaves you need to reset otherwise the killer finding you again injured means you don't have an exhaustion. It'll be a strong exhaustion perk that see some play, but I don't see this perk being back to a high pick rate.
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It was a slap on the wrist for a nerf. People said the same thing about the other DH change except this time DH isn't head and shoulders above the other exhaustion perks. All the change really seems to do is make DH not do anything early game. Perk should be either number 2 or 3 for power. Certainly is still worth running but will not be the top exhaustion next patch.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383135#Comment_3383135
Reactive, Solidarity, Resurgence and the like all should probably bypass Hemorrhage, to be honest.
Yea it would be a good change if they made some of those niche perks that get deleted by hemorrhage status immune to that effect. Like the place you get that effect most commonly is sloppy. The main reason you are taking that perk is for mangled and hemorrhage is the cherry on top. Bit weird to me that the cherry on top just deletes already niche perks. Would make those perks interesting since survivors finding killers getting good value from hemorrhage can run one of the perks that make them status immune to that effect.
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@Akumakaji said:
I have had lots of fun with Autodidact in the past, but it was always smirked at because it felt so pointless, now it could truly shine.
Solidarity and Adas Reactive Healing perks could also be pretty good, IF they get a small buff: for 30s after they do their magic, the survivors health bar should be unaffected by haermorraging effects. This is what kills this perks, mostly. Yeah, you might got half or even 3/4 of your health, but dang, the killer came close and now you are running and all that health is bleeding out.
I think Reactive healing could be buffed to just make you immune to Hemorrhage.
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@Caiman said:
Autodidact becoming a good perk would be an interesting shake-up. I'm also wondering if people will start using Solidarity, Resurgence, and Reactive Healing because those perks will be shaving off significant chunks of time now.
Autodidact+Solidarity would be interesting. If there is a ton of hit n run then doing healing partys wouldn't be that uncommon. If you had full stack of auto and 2 quick skill checks you could have 2 players healed in 15ish seconds.
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@foods said:
literally everyone in every game with matchmaking thinks their MMR is too low and they are playing with people so much worse than them and the matchmaking is surely broken and its just so unfair.
you arent as good as you think you are and the matchmaking works fine. work on getting better rather than looking down on the players around you.
Just doing an update! Played the 10th game and obviously that was a loss. I was wondering if you can give some tips on how to get better. I ran the killer for about 10 minutes and was hooked twice. Any time I wasn't in chase or saving I was resetting or on a gen. Thanks in advanced!
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@foods said:
literally everyone in every game with matchmaking thinks their MMR is too low and they are playing with people so much worse than them and the matchmaking is surely broken and its just so unfair.
you arent as good as you think you are and the matchmaking works fine. work on getting better rather than looking down on the players around you.
So today I won 3 games out of 9. My average chase time was 3 minutes. I made a trapper need to use the anti infinite mechanic just to down me at the OP LT wall.
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Improve matchmaking for soloq? There is matchmaking for soloq?
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382680#Comment_3382680
I loved pop. I don't really use much gen regression. Used brine mostly, but i see a lot matches where killers get 1-2 downs since we do gens pretty fast and survivors can run more than 10 seconds.
I suppose ill go using jolt after the update, deadlock has never really been my thing.
I would say Jolt is only really good on Spirit. The problem the perk has is when there are 1-2 gens remaining teams not full of potatoes will run away from the gens making the perk useless. Spirit however can get downs fast at the start where you are much more likely to hit gens and get good value from the perk.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382665#Comment_3382665
Sadly i have a feeling they will revert the 16 seconds but they will not revert any of the killer nerfs. This has been a theme lately.
Survivors don't understand how much time killers will lose with these nerfs, but they just keep thinking about themselfs and their 4 precious perks they don't want to take off to try something new.
Before someone calls me a killer main... i play 80% survivor nowdays so no.. i just happen to see game from both sides.
Gen regression has been the meta for killer since the patch they buffed pop from 30 seconds to 60. Killer currently does not have good gen regression perks, and these perks are healthy for the game when they require downs for the progression.
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@Hannacia said:
If they revert the overall healing back to 16 seconds i think fair trade is to make Brine and overcharge then 150%. Healing nerf is there to slow down the game due to gen perks being heavily nerfed.
I would think they would just revert the PR nerf entirely. Feels like that perk really was just nerfed because it would be op in combination of the base healing nerfs.
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@Halloulle said:
I love how this base game impossible scenario is put in the context of gen speeds in quite some comments. If you make the comparison to gens, then it would probably be way more accurate to compare it survivors only having to complete three gens total. Then it would actually be impossible for a killer to Interrupt gens before they are done if they also want to chase someone.
The easiest solution, if the ultimate goal was to switch up gameplay and perk use while also extending the overall match duration, is to extend the hook timer so that each stage takes longer. Given that healing takes 8 seconds longer and taking the middle Ground of assuming that on average only one surv will need healing to go unhook wach hook stage would have to be 8 seconds longer.
As is, the worst case scenario I see is that it's entirely gens before friends. Someone is on hook and it doesn't just so happen that there are enough healthy survivors to unhook? Well, tough luck, you're dead now. With healing being affected this greatly and gen Regression being not as strong as before i can see hit and rum playstyles being way more common. Which effectivrly translates to: you down you dead. Aka: 12 hooks exist on paper, in reality it's 4.
The goal is not to extend the match duration. The goal is to shift the meta for killer from gen regression to healing. Instead of needing gen regression they are giving base kit buffs while regression being much, much weaker. With healing being the name of the game you are now much more likely to see other perks. These perks are things that are going to help you get downs on injured survivors. Since healing is so valuable for survivor you will be seeing survivors give at least one perk slot for healing.
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382094#Comment_3382094
This is a nice point to bring up but its unrealistic. Most people aren't going to be running Botany. You'll see it on the casual/newer players who want to experiment or don't know much about perk strength or synergy. Good players/experienced survivors won't be bringing it most likely.
That might be the case now but wont be in the next patch. Killers are going to be running mangled next patch which makes healing with no healing speed perks take 30 seconds. That's 2 players spending 30 seconds for just one heal. Now imagine a hit n run Wraith every game. You will quicky be running healing perks.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382177#Comment_3382177
again, if there is a camping killer it is required to have 2 survivors fully healed, this mainly applies to m1 killers, if the killer brings sloppy and it is quite literally impossible to counter an m1 killer camping because it takes too long to heal since the hook timers aren't long enough, then that is an unfair game mechanic, if it takes 60 seconds for survivors to die, and 60 seconds to heal 2 survivors then there's nothing you can do, that's the point I'm making, as a killer, it Is not impossible to stop a gen from getting fixed I guess try the math on your gen perks and get back to me on how it's impossible
but what has been presented to you is in fact an impossible scenario to counter, and that's why I differentiate this from killer, killer is getting a lot of value from this, you don't need slow-down perks anymore, healing just became a burden to survivors I've heard multiple top 1% players/streamers say that this is basically the death of dbd if this goes live, and them also being primarily killer mains makes it all the more important
Ohtofu 4k percent of 90% as deathslinger
Vulpixia she's possibly the best nurse main you'll ever come across
Otzdarva, he's just a legend we already know about him
all these people have come forward and said negative things about these healing changes, you need to slowdown and think about how telling this is before you double down on this
So m1 killer injures all 4 survivors and get a down before they decide to reset. Not all 3 reset and no one knows what healing perks do in a healing meta? Isn't this how PVP games should work. Like you are just straight up getting outplayed making massive amount of mistakes and then the killer punishes you and is going to get rewarded.
It's is impossible when you make massive amount of mistakes. How is that not something you should be punished when the team is making mistake after mistake after mistake while you still being able to remove the mistakes you make by running healing perks.
I've beat vulp as soloq vs her Nurse with the old 1900 MM
Double down on what? We are going into a healing meta. You run 1 healing perk and this removes the nerfs.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382094#Comment_3382094
I would not say something is suddenly good because the base is really bad...
To OP, I saw this the moment to see base healing to 24sec. Its not simply just 8sec per heal as most killers see.
But wouldn't the perk be very good compared to the value it gives vs all perks in the game? Prove is 7 seconds saved with 2 players on a gen and botany is 8-10 per heal. Since we are going into a healing meta then you might be healing players 5 times a match. That's 40-50 seconds of saved time from one perk.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382118#Comment_3382118
no not really because I'm talking about a situation that is uncounterable, I can not save someone from a camping bubba without a second person who is fully healed, so that's why I say it about this
gen slow down is only a result of skill, when gens fly by it means you are failing to apply pressure to the team, so that's why you need it, I'm not saying that's an issue but in no way should gen slowdown perks become base kit considering its counterable, you can kill survivors
so to answer your question no, you can not also say this about killer perks
How does one save vs a camping bubba?
healing should be balanced on its own
How does this not apply to gens? There are a bunch of healing perks in the game but you seem to be saying that healing should be balanced without this perks. They are trying to shift the meta into a meta where healing is very valuable. Do healing perks not fix this issue? The only reason this scenario is a problem is because both players have zero healing perks and the killer has 3 injured and downed one while also putting one on hook and then camping before these players did a reset.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382094#Comment_3382094
that's not something I feel like anyone should have to bring, healing should be balanced on its own, that's the same line as why they made BT base kit because if a killer were camping you'd just get told to "just bring BT then" but that's not a solution, I shouldn't have to bring anything to save my team from a highly unfair game mechanic, that the killer can take advantage of just by standing there these healing changes are creating an overall slowdown, or a speed up to how long games last, either survivor are gonna find time to heal and the game is gonna last a million years because it takes forever to heal or do anything, or it makes the game way too easy for the killer and they just win
I think this can be separated into high-skill and low skill
high skill the games would last for eternity, low skill the killers would win easily, I don't think that's fun either way
Couldn't you say these about a killer perks though? Like I have to bring slowdown perks otherwise gens fly by.
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If both players have Botany then the healing goes from 48 to 32 seconds. If they both have botany and killer has sloppy it goes from 60 to 40. Man botany is such a good perk next patch.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381940#Comment_3381940
It's adorable that you think killers won't just camp a hook when survivor speeds get nerfed.
OTR? You mean the perk that is completely disabled if they hit you when you get unhooked, right? Yeah, having to hit someone twice has truly made tunneling completely impossible. Why not just claim that BT is enough too while we're at it, I need a good laugh.
Or did you mean decisive strike? You seem to not have played survivor in the past year, so you might not be aware that it got nerfed last July.
When did I say killers won't camp? I'm just saying camping would be weaker next patch than what it is now since gen kicking builds encourage camping and that is dead.
Again you are trying to insinuate that because things are not dead that they are not getting nerfed. Let me ask you this one simple question: is it easier to tunnel 4 OTR players or 4 players with no OTR?
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381940#Comment_3381940
Best info perk in solo q is Clairevoyance, not Bond. I run Bond in swf and its great to know where my friends are for perfect save timings against camping killers, to see them dropping pallets so I can avoid that area when I get chase or just sit on a gen in killer's terror radius without having to worry that he might catch you off guard as long as you can see your friend being chased nearby.
But Bond in solo q? It's just awful to watch the playstylle of average players who throw 2 god pallets and still manage to die within 30 seconds.
Camping got buffed, not nerfed with new patch. You can't unhook while injured against a camping killer. So survivors will have to heal. Unhooking is also the situaion where many casual survivors giive killes free hits which makes camping even more effective.
Best soloq info perk is bond imo. When in chase you avoid bringing the killer to gens, meaning the perk helps gens go faster. You can reset with your team since you can see their aura from 32m. If they are running the killer near you it tells you what pallets are being used. Bond is just such a nutty perk that is also going up in value next patch since you can't self heal. The perk is insanely good for helping soloq players do resets and I would say it is legit a 10/10 perk.
Yea if killer injures the team and survivors think they are just going to not heal then the killer can punish the survivors by camping the hook and punish them for not resetting. You can already do this in the game right now though. Camping is nerfed because gen kicking perks. No longer are killers getting gigga rewarded for hooking a survivor and proxy hook with nearby gens regressing/ doing a 3 gen. The next patch rewards killers for getting injures and regression is just trash. Would say that it is basically a no brainer to run Botany since mangled without healing speed is 30 seconds for a single heal. Botany reduces the change back to where it is now (20 with mangled)which is basically survivors swapping Prove for Botany and calling it a day.
I can see where you are coming from with casual players. Making mistakes certainly will be more punishing now especially if players are not running healing perk with the killer having mangled. How do you fix that if you are looking to do a meta shift with healing being the new meta?
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381930#Comment_3381930
I think it'll actually be 18 seconds with the +50% speed. It shaves off a quarter of the time, not half. Still, it almost negates it.
16 seconds you're healing at 1.5 charges a second which would be 16x1.5=24 charges. 24 seconds to heal means 1c a second for 24 seconds which is 24 charges required to heal. Botany just straight up removes the nerf entirely.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381821#Comment_3381821
The whole point is that the game will suck for solo q, so yes. I completely agree.
SWF will play this way and killers, who already have the mantra that 'tunneling is necessary' will scream it even louder. You can't change how the killer plays, and hard tunneling is where we're headed.
If your options are never escape or play competitively and sweat your balls off, people will either quit the game or adapt. The survivors who are left will be the ones who adapt and can occasionally win games. Mostly SWF, if the changes go through.
The patch is a massive bump for soloq. Bond is already the best info perk for soloq and you throw on bot for the changes to mean nothing. But what is changed is the fact that the 3 gen bs is dead. The fact that with these changes its pushes hooks more. Those things are good for the game.
Hard tunneling even though DH is weaker so OTR should be used more and proxy camping is nerfed thanks to the regression perks taken out back not rewarding killers anywhere near the amount for camping with gen kick builds. The slowdown change for healing doesn't do anything for killer if they hard tunnel.
Your options are bring a perk. Literally it's one perk. one. whole. perk. slot.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381706#Comment_3381706
No, Botany Knowledge will not negate the healing time increases. If you wanted to make that point you’d have had better luck presenting Inner Healing as an alternative. And you’d still be wrong. Lol.
It takes 16 seconds for healing now. In the next patch it takes 24 seconds to heal. 16x1.5=24. You give up one perk slot to remove the healing increase.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381792#Comment_3381792
Extending chases
Yes, if you run adrenaline, resilience, and bring a BNP you can rush gens and heal with adrenaline.
Your point about extending chases is 100% correct, and why people will pre drop every pallet to avoid taking damage.
And survivors will burn Borgo, The Game, or Garden to make sure they have as much time to pre drop as possible.
24 seconds base heals are a complete waste of time, botany or no. Split up, work injured, bang out gens faster than the killer can snowball.
Edit: autocorrect.
You realize if survivor start playing ultra sweaty then they will get the S tier killers every game . Have fun playing vs Spirt, Nurse, and Blight playing like its a comp match with the best add-ons every single game. Bet that will be a blast for survivor players.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381762#Comment_3381762
No self healing means it takes 32 seconds, not 16, since you need a second person. That's true even if they don't change the base timing.
And a lot of people won't bother to heal at all. Resilience, adrenaline, BNP, and bang out gens as fast as physically possible.
Well the time it takes to heal with botany will be 16 seconds next patch and then there is gen efficiency loss which is more like 42-48 charges since you would have time finding players 16sx2players+16s to find a player to heal you would be 48c.
The math shows that healing and extending chases are better than staying injured and doing gens. If you last 30 seconds longer in chase because of a additional health state you are looking at 3 players potentially on gens putting 1 charge per second resulting in 30 seconds longer chase being up to 90 charges or 1 full gen with the killer not have any good regression perks. Now if you run botany and don't have to find a player you are losing out on 32c compared to the potential 90 for healing. I think it also takes m1 killers 20 seconds to hit a survivor a second time if that survivor is able to straight up hold w for the entire time. Probably more fair to say a survivor on average will last 45 seconds per health state. If that is the case then it would be 45x3=135c compared to the not healing being 32-48c. Granted this is more of a perfect scenario.
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You run botany and will have more things to do in the game than current dbd which is literally sit on a 3 gen and watch some dude go around kicking gens for 30 minutes. Botany is 16 second heals now which is literally what the currently is on live.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381690#Comment_3381690
If you came to me for healing I would not heal you. I’d point to a gen to tell you to go do that. Because even with your full build dedicated to healing, it’s still more efficient for survivors to work on gens than worry about healing.
Yea except that is factually wrong. Botany completely counters the healing changes alone. 40 seconds to gen efficiency vs having another health state in chase is 100% worse. That is also assuming the killer is running mangled which I would expect them to. BT is literally one of the best survivor perk next patch. 20 seconds of efficiency staved of for every heal. Prove was only 14 and was only 1-2 times per match.
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How so? I can run bond, We'll make it, Botany Knowledge, and OTR and have a easier time next patch compared to this one. Gen regression perks are trash and WMI+BT make the healing changes a joke. Throw in the best soloq info perk bond which is buffed again next patch and soloq survivor looks to be big chillin.
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@Canas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380001#Comment_3380001
What on earth is that screen resolution? Are you playing on a cinema sized screen?
3440x1440p ultrawide monitor. Need to play dbd in 16:9 sadly but the game doesn't change the aspect ratio until I get in a match.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381261#Comment_3381261
Camping falls down with the kicking nerfs
Camping =/= kicking. CoB and OC were never components of a camping build and honestly, neither was PR. Yes, PR is now potentially less effective if the survivors decide to trade more than four times (What kind of camping this is is beyond me at this point) but that's not exactly a fall for camping.
Healing changes are a nerf for camping
Survivors being slower is not a nerf for camping in any shape.
The healing changes are basically base kit buffs for going for 12 hooks.
Those are not nerfs to camping and tunnelling. I know it gets regurgitated ad nauseam, but no matter how much the game favours killers, they will continue to camp and tunnel.
With camping nerfs you see OTR buffs since proxy camping countered this perk.
And it is not gone, so no, OTR doesn't move.
PR is a nerf for tunneling since you no longer have a good regression perk.
That's not a nerf to tunnelling though, tunnelling is still by far the most effective method and its every bit as efficient as it has been.
Though of course, the killer does now have more time to find the unhooked survivor before they can get healed, so that's a buff to tunnelling.
The healing changes make gens go faster if you are tunneling
No, they don't. Gens are gonna go as fast as normal, unless you're referring to survivors picking up more genrush builds, but that's not a tunnelling specific nerf, is it?
OTR should be used massively now which is the anti-tunneling perk.
In other words, if you tunnel hard enough, survivors will now have 3 perks instead of 4. That's a buff to tunnelling.
Yea man I'm not going to even bother teaching you have to theorycraft. I've been a top 200ish player in a games that had 10 mil players and another with 1 mil. Did so by being good at theorycrafting. Saying things like "Survivors being slower is not a nerf for camping in any shape." or "No, they don't. Gens are gonna go as fast as normal, unless you're referring to survivors picking up more genrush builds, but that's not a tunnelling specific nerf, is it?" just shows you don't have any idea how this patch changes the game. Nerfing top game delay perks on killer and adding new delay that is only good for spreading damage is a obvious nerf to those strats.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381157#Comment_3381157
Just because killers can camp and tunnel doesn't mean you will still see it as much with both being nerfed. The strat is weaker next patch.
How?
Nothing was done to address these. The 50% heal nerf is going to bolster both of those tactics. Tunnelling now also hard-counters DH.
What, exactly, was nerfed about tunnelling and camping?
3-genning got a hit with CoB and OC getting nerfed, but the heal nerf then buffs it back up again.
3 gen was massively nerfed. We are going to see a SB meta and trying to do a 3 gen vs SB and need hits for slowdown just isn't going to work. I don't see how you come to the conclusion that the healing changes bring 3 gen back to anywhere near the power it was at. It's still going to be a strat but it has always been one in dbd since Doc release. It has only be a serious issue with the gen kicking stuff which has been nuked.
Camping falls down with the kicking nerfs. You are now not heavily encouraged to camp hooks where gens are high since you no longer have cob and 3 gen nerfs mean getting a down and going into a 3 gen was also nerfed. On top of this PR was nerfed which was another thing strong for camping since you could camp a survivor on a PR hook and cycle procs. Healing changes are a nerf for camping unless survivors think they can be cute and not heal which camping counters. The name of the game next patch will be split pressure. This is where you get your game delay since slowdown is kinda trash now. The healing changes are basically base kit buffs for going for 12 hooks.
With camping nerfs you see OTR buffs since proxy camping countered this perk. PR is a nerf for tunneling since you no longer have a good regression perk. DH change also increase value for OTR which again is nerfing tunneling. The healing changes make gens go faster if you are tunneling and slow if you split pressure. Tunneling nerfs is mostly being that split pressure is how you slow the game down and OTR should be used massively now which is the anti-tunneling perk.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379131#Comment_3379131
1 well, PR will be nefed the next patch, essencially incentivizing tunneling and camping over defending gens and going for mixed hooks so... i think that this won't be possible anymore (remember that the hooks are also rng, this is the main reason why i found them unreliable)
2 my bad, that comment was made in another thread, here's the link https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378550#Comment_3378550
3 honestly there aren't good regression perks left, the only one is jolt but even then you can activate it only with a basic attack and in a limited range so now we have the situation that i described in the 1st point
4 tracking perks aren't a priority for me since i can easily guess where survivors will go to do gens/heals generally speaking, i'd rather go for perks that help me in chases (personal opinion here eh)
Next patch incentivizes going for multiple chases thanks to the healing changes . Dead by healing
Oh yea I saw something about that. The thing is when I get hard game after hard game I'll watch someone like Scottjund and see him also having hard games. I really don't think that is why games look easy for good players. I'll post a hens333 video at the bottom of him talking quicky about mmr.
Dead by healing. Getting hits and running perks that punish players for not healing is da wae next patch.
I find info perks to make the game more chill since it lets you turn off brain and go for chases. Why having to mentally keep track of things when a perk will allow you to just chill and focus on the chases. To each their own tho.
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@Xane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380001#Comment_3380001
Did I just read your post correctly? You understand the full picture with most of the community so far has been directly hate? Gen rushing is going to be more prevalent, and killers will tunnel and camp no matter what.
If you think this update is going to "buff solo Q" then you're in for a rude awakening. I'm not trying to be mean to you but you're one of the other comments I see that are trying to look past all the "faults" and sound like you're full of copium.
Players think gen rushing is going to be more of an issue because they think players should not heal. So lets go over how clearly wrong that take is by theory crafting it. Lets stay on average 1 hit will take a killer 30 seconds. In the next patch you will run healing perks as survivor. For soloq I'm planning on running botany and bond to completely remove these nerfs. Now for those 2 perks lets say it takes 16 seconds to find a survivor and 16 seconds to heal. This would result in 48 seconds of gen efficiency to get healed. If they last 30 seconds longer in chase because they were healed they now can potentially add 30 x 3c=90 charges or one full gen. 3 survivors all doing sperate gens at 1c per second. This means by healing and last 30 seconds in chase longer because of the additional health state we get more gens done compared to 16x2+16=48.
Just because killers can camp and tunnel doesn't mean you will still see it as much with both being nerfed. The strat is weaker next patch.
This update does buff soloq. 3 genning, camping, and tunneling are all getting nerfed. If you think all 3 of those things being nerfed and survivor just needs to bring bond+botany to remove the changes killer got then idk what to tell ya. And I'm not looking past the faults. I'm injecting the changes into the game and mentally simulating how these affect the game and coming to a conclusion on what the game will look like because of it.
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@Hubriq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380818#Comment_3380818
I swear I'm not trying to sound conceited, but I've been playing this game for quite some time now...
Not too long ago survivors could heal and gen rush faster than they can right now and neither one of the killer perks whose nerfs were announced even existed and I assure you killers would still proxy camp and tunnel every match regardless.
You see, people used to run tinkerer/ruin/surv/undying and they would still not leave the hook to patrol gens. Plus every single killer still had a positive win rate regardless of the fact their playstyle didn't match the perks they were using.
Point being that going back to the hook is something killer will always do so long as they are not actively disincentivized to do (like they are with make your choice and devour hope, for example). Those nerfs will hardly change a thing about it
Damn I've been playing this game for a bit too. When you did you start playing? I personally started playing dbd back in patch 1.0.0
When was the gen rush? The only time where I felt there was a true gen rush issue was with the first nerf to ruin when toolboxes still had the old speed. Just because someone can proxy camp or tunnel doesn't mean it is the best play all the time.
Just because players can do something doesn't mean that those strats are always the best. Big difference in being able to camp or tunnel vs those strats winning killers game after game by always doing them.
Those killers should already be in chase because the survivor should be waiting to save and the killer is trying to get another injure because that seems to be what the killer should be focusing on next patch; injuring survivors to slow the game down.
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@Hubriq said:
I don't think so. Unless killers have a change of heart and decide to collectively stop tunneling/hook proxying, you won't have the time to heal any survivor after unhooking. Plus it has also been nerfed by the changes made to the healing system, you know? If no one uses it now why would they use it after it gets weaker...
Aside from Off the Records, I'm expecting to see a lot of aura perks (windows of opportunity, kindred, bond, empathy), exhaustion perks (lithe, sprint burst, adrenaline), gen perks (prove thyself, wiretap, mine blast) and totem perks (small game, inner healing, overzealous, detective's hunch).
If people were to use a healing perk, I'm gessing it would be autodidact, resurgence or maybe(!) renewal.
Camping and tunneling were nerfed this patch. Proxy camping was a no brainer because you could do a 3 gen or had a survivor hook near gens with progress and had a kick build. Since proxy camping is weaker then OTR was indirectly buffed since that as the counter to that perk along with DH not being the best perk which is another buff for otr.
Healing perks were buffed by the healing changes. Their value is actually higher now making them better than before since old we'll make it was 8 seconds off and now it is 12.
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What changes if I run botany+bond? So as a survivor I need to basically give up 1 perk slot for camping, tunneling and 3 genning to be nerfed? Oh noooo I need to find someone with my bond to get healed.
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@Star99er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380577#Comment_3380577
I think the main reason is because Botany Knowledge depletes medkits quicker where as you can stack medkit speed with We’ll Make It without worrying about that, but it’s likely they’ll both see more use if these changes end up going through.
The only thing I worry about We'll make it+ medkits is that you are going in with good healing but a heavy hit n run strat will make those items weak. Like if we see more Wraith I would much rather run bot than we'll+ medkit since he will be doing a lot of hit n run. But I agree that we most definitely will be seeing more of those perks next patch.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380577#Comment_3380577
its not enough difference. botany. generally when your healing, at least in soloq, your only healing once or twice per game and most efficient heal you can do is heal under hook which we'll make it is designed for. I think people will use build to last+med-kits for 4 self-heals and those that are not using med-kit will be using we'll make it while playing injured for most of the game.
I think with gen regression now being trash we will see the slowdown for killers either come from quick down times to create high tempo or a more hit n run playstyle. I think we can see way more healing in the new meta which botany will be overall more valuable since its value stays the same if the killer is Nurse or Wraith.
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I think we'll make it will be very good if you are rocking a medkit otherwise why wouldn't you use botany knowledge? There is no conditional while the healing speed is 16s vs 12s.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380517#Comment_3380517
Then make them do something else, don't make them all incapable of doing what they're meant to. Have CoB reset the usual regression if you drive a Survivor off without needing another kick. Make Overcharge more about skill checks. Lots more.
If you don't want direct regression, change perks that do that to do something else. And stop making them too bad to use instead.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380513#Comment_3380513
Conversely, SWF could coordinate easily to take advantage of CoH and avoid being interrupted and let everyone know to stay on their gen perfectly.
And if a team-buffing perk was being used because it let solo players heal like they have Self Care, you can immediately spot the problem with it.
That's fair. The only thing I would say to that is they seem to be pushing a new direction which requires large changes to happen simultaneously and reworking these perks would add even more required work. These changes really need to all be done at the same time so I find it understandable that they kinda just gutted and move on with these problematic perks, but it isn't unreasonable to ask for them to rework the perk instead of just nuking them into worthlessness.