TieBreaker
TieBreaker
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So SWF don't stomp as hard as we thought, high MMR solo players still die costantly regardless of their skill level, Distortion and UW don't even make the top 10 and everyone hates SM.
Sounds about right.
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The man does have one of the best mori's in the game. Can't deny that.
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The argument for Blight being 115% is usually that he is map dependent. Not sure if this is accurate though.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649765#Comment_3649765
I think Nurse is considered hard to balance since messing with blink distance and movement speed, etc can easily result in Nurse not gaining enough distance to actually keep up with Survivors.
As for Blight... I kind of just slipped it in since it seems like BHVR is really struggling to balance his Iridescent addons. I see what they are going for with it but they are just really struggling with it. Basekit, he is fine.
At least things are somewhat better now. I don't miss Starstruck Nurse.
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This is a fair statement. Although I don't know why Nurse or Blight are considered hard to balance. BHVR just doesn't want to touch their basekit, which in turn means their nerfs don't really impact them that hard.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649742#Comment_3649742
And here we see more Killer shaming.
If they win; They're 'sweaty' for not considering their opponents fun over trying to win! How dare Killers try to win! Don't they know Survivors fun is the most important thing in a Killer's life?!
Oh, and it never works in reverse; There's never such a thing as 'Sweaty' Survivors. If Survivors roflestomp Killers; Killers just need to 'git gud' and 'learn 2 play'.
Double standard 🤮
I didn't say anything about that. Simply that having someone tunneled out at the start of the match is demoralising, which it is.
Survivors are perfectly capable of being sweaty. I've seen plenty of survivors bodyblock the first potential hook when it's totally unnecessary.
Sorry you felt singled out by that statement, but survivors are free to discuss their miserable experiences just as much as killers do on this forum.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
what happened to all the wholesome and funny ones? all I get is billy's who immediately go back to hook everytime and tunnel someone at 5 gens, it's so lame and boring and just makes me wanna go next every time.. not to mention that most of them are on anonymous mode (not surprised)
Yeah, hard tunneling is incredibly demoralising for the survivor team. I understand the feeling of just being done at that point and wanting to move on. Although it's not a really Billy thing. Just sweaty killers trying out a new toy.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649718#Comment_3649718
I would upvote you, if I could find the button. Goddam the glare. Ugh.
It is somewhat Ark of the Covenant.
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I don't know what you people are complaining about. Everything looks great.
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Thanks for continuing to post these threads. I'd miss out on most of the charms if you didn't 👍️
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649604#Comment_3649604
So basically, experienced players don’t matter.
No, BHVR just doesn't have much finesse when it comes to balance changes. Instead of nerfing extremely strong loops like main buildings, they nerf things like basic loops because it's easier to do.
You should be pushing BHVR to make changes that really target the strongest survivor players instead of things that will disproportionately impact weaker players.
Alot of these things would be easier to do if solo queue wasn't so weak by nature, the game's matchmaking system actually worked, the game gave players better tools to learn and become optimal, and the game could recognise which survivors actually play well in the match, instead of just saying "you died so you suck".
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Honestly I think it's a good trade off for the cooldown nerf.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649599#Comment_3649599
I have a career and was able to do it. I agree that the game should do a much better job with tutorials, but it still shouldn’t be balanced around clueless players. If you’re going to be casual, you should expect to lose more than people who put in the time. This used to be common sense, but this entitled playerbase has shifted the standard.
Balancing the game around everyone except the majority of players is a bad idea. There are plenty of changes that could be made that would impact higher skilled players without kicking in the teeth of everyone else, but BHVR is only capable of doing blanket nerfs which barely impact those needing a nerf and screw over everybody else in the process.
If the game is only playable for survivors with absurdly high levels of experience then the game begins to die. Then there's no game for anyone.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649573#Comment_3649573
So should competent players should suffer because certain players don’t care to learn?
Don't care to learn? Most players don't have thousands of hours to devote to one game. It's great that you have that much free time to spare but that's an unrealistic expectation of most players. Maybe the game should do a better job of teaching players instead of expecting them to grind their face against the wall for an absurdly long time.
Saying that certain players (the majority of players) "don't care to learn" is disingenuous.
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@johntec said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649556#Comment_3649556
Yeah I definitly see your point. Personally I'm not a fan of balancing a game around weak players, but the lack of coordination in solo queue is definitly a problem. That's where I think some form of matchmaking would help, so experienced players get matched with other experienced players (I have 3k hours, which compared to others is not that much, but I dont wanna get matched with people who have 1k hours or less, not because I wanna shame them, they just lack experience)
However matchmaking would result in good players only seeing blight and nurse, and weak killers constantly being stomped on, which is also boring, so I don't know how to solve this problem.
Unfortunately the time requirements for being a competent player in this game is absurd. Nobody should have to commit hundreds, let alone thousands of hours to a game to be competent. Unfortunately that's just how this game turned out, meaning that the majority of the playerbase is not competent enough to be described as "good".
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You don't even need to be P100 to get dodging. If I have a teammate that is even like P40, the odds of dodging goes up exponentially.
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@johntec said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649506#Comment_3649506
First of all, I don't think tunneling is a problem. This may be an unpopular opinion but the base kit bt plus movement speed bonus is enough to hurt a tunneling killer, if the others do gens(and I'm not talking about nurse, she's a special case) Of course the one getting tunneled is propably gonna die, but the killer is still gonna lose the game if they tunnel.
And yes it's true that the killers pressure increase over time with more generators being repaired, however if survivors do gens really efficiently(that means no chest opening, no unnecessary cleansing of dull totems) in theory three gens could pop within 90 seconds. That means the killer has maybe one, if they play well three hooks, compared to three gens being repaired at the same time. No amount of pressure from the killer side can make this game winable for the them (and yes I'm not including comp nurse players destroying solo queue when talking about this) Also three gening, the most popular late game strategy has been nerfed(which I fully support) So no, I still think those first three gens massivly hurt the killer if survivors play well
I think you are underestimating how effective tunneling is. Most survivors can't run the killer for more than 30 seconds without going down. The number of survivors that can keep a tunneling killer busy long enough to make it a losing strategy for the killer is very low.
Despite what the devs assert, survivors overall are very altruistic, even in solo queue. When tunneling occurs in solo queue, the lack of coordination combined with altruistic behaviour throws the match into absolute chaos. The only time survivors stick to gens is when one is almost completed or there is only one left. That's assuming that survivors can even find the gens in an efficient manner.
It's much easier for the killer to play optimally, as they do not have to rely on anyone other than themselves. The nature of playing survivor depends on your teammates, which opens up a lot of possibilities for things to go wrong. Outside of high level SWF teams, things go wrong for survivors all the time.
Your proposed changes don't target high level SWF survivors, it targets everyone. Non-competitive and solo queue players don't need more nerfs.
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In my experience, matches where the killer gets a hook before one or two gens are completed usually go very badly for survivors. When the killer's pressure begins, it's very difficult for survivors to reverse that momentum. Things naturally get much harder for survivors when there are less gens to complete and resources have been depleted. Killers always have the opportunity to begin a snowball, even if a couple of gens pop before they get a hook.
Maybe this is just a part of playing in solo queue, but we are the majority of the playerbase, so we should be considered when balancing the game.
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Six matches tonight and not a single one with vaguely competent teammates. Playing well but losing anyway due to lousy matchmaking is beyond frustrating. No wonder most survivors are miserable most of the time. Sure, playing killer can be frustrating, but it has nothing on the misery that is solo queue.
If BHVR wants people to RQ less, maybe they should try and actually improve the experience for solo players (also known as the majority of the playerbase). No more survivor nerfs till BHVR does something to improve solo queue. Their excuse that there's nothing they can do because solo players refuse to work together is absolute nonsense.
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Dead Hard does require being hooked before it can be used. You get one per hook state so two in total.
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It's been months now. I'm fairly certain they have abandoned the idea and just not told anyone about it.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649319#Comment_3649319
Again, you can’t tell me my experience is wrong. It’s literally my opinion lol. I know how playing killer felt back then, and I know how it feels now. It’s a bad experience. Survivors have always been too strong, but it’s more obvious now that strong regression no longer exists.
I don't think anyone is saying that your experience is wrong. Simply that you are making statements about the objective balance of the game based on your own experiences. Your opinion could be correct, but there's no way to establish that based soley on what you encounter and how your matches go.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649165#Comment_3649165
Most of what you said isn’t even true. There is no perk variety because you have to run gen regression and/or information perks. There is no deviating if you want to win. Killer wipe speed is a laughable change that had no impact.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649282#Comment_3649282
Basekit borrowed time, off the record, and the off hook speed boost is every bit as powerful as old DS and deadhard. I would rather deal with that old BS instead of this garbage because, again, killer had stuff that was really powerful.
Those are all things that help prevent hook camping and tunneling off hook. If it's fun you care about, being camped or tunneled off the hook is not fun at all for survivors. In fact, it's absolutely miserable.
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@Khastrx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648799#Comment_3648799
Haddie is definitely not that curvy. Jane's assets can literally stop traffic, nothing compares.
You better hope the Haddie stans on Twitter don't see this.
@Princesse_nico said:
we need david king bottom boyfriend
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@Khastrx said:
Similar could be said about the female characters. They are all slim and petite, with Jane the only one having curves. Where the thicc guys at!?
Everyone forgets that Haddie exists.
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I once tunneled a gen. It RQ at 70% and sent me message saying that I should "touch grass".
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It is funny that Adrenaline is considered OP but Rancor is fine. I know which one I'd rather deal with.
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Ah yes, the old Tombstone Piece at 5 gens scenario. Good times.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
While I do think the server can handle hits better, I do not agree with the idea that Killers constantly lag out their game for an advantage.
Yes some do, but a lot of players just have really bad internet, rather it be bc of the area they live in or financial reasons, so I think it's unfair to assume that all players are trying to gain an advantage.
I don't know if players are doing it intentionally. Although it doesn't make any difference to the outcome. It's definitely more common than it used to be. My issue is that there's no reason to not run really high ping in match. Even if you play in a densely populated area, you are always better off running a VPN and playing against survivors on the other side of the world.
If the killer is lagging that bad, they should be the ones punished for it in gameplay, not the opposing team. Failing that, just give survivors info in the lobby, so they can choose whether they want to play the match or not. If the killer is running 300+ ping then it's going to be unplayable and survivors shouldn't have to play the match or face a DC penalty for leaving.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648627#Comment_3648627
It's more of a mixed bag than you'd think.
I remember playing online games years ago when internet was very unstable, and DBD suffers similar issues as before. Swings not connecting despite making noises, getting hit way too far, players rubberbanding back and forth, the whole deal. It can be as detrimental to the lagging player as it is to the one getting hit sometimes. Heck, I bet most people are unaware of how many times a player failed to hit them when the server registers their movements differently due to packet loss.
That said, DBD is actually one of the better games I've seen when it handles weird lag oddly enough. And yes, a ping limit should be considered but have some kind of mercy for those with pings around maybe 120~sh MS ping. Usually when I see really bad lag it was around the 150 to 200 mark.
Maybe they could just let survivors know before the match that the killer has a very high ping. That way we can choose to play the match or not.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648630#Comment_3648630
Well consider that Deja Vu only got buffed because of the 3 gen issue, as was said as much when it happened. It's only natural people would ask why it wasn't reverted now that 3 gen has a solid fix.
I don't think the 3 gen problem is completely fixed though. Killers can still hold one for a really long time. I've had matches where the killer holds one for over 30 minutes. Not to mention that solo queue teams and average skilled survivors still get destroyed by the strategy.
The fix only really addressed the ability for a killer to hold a 3 gen indefinitely. That's great for those meeting the worst kind of SM player, and I'm glad it's fixed, but the 3 gen strat is still incredibly powerful against solo players and survivors with less than hundreds of hours of play time. That wouldn't be an issue if solo and average survivors didn't include the majority of the playerbase, but it does.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648624#Comment_3648624
Oh I highly agree with this, and I use MFT as an example on problematic synergies mostly, but I wouldn't ignore the fact that Deja Vu gives you unlimited vision on the closest 3 gens the entire time as well. Not to mention it makes other gen aura perks more useless to run to boot.
But I do agree, toolboxes should be looked at before Deja Vu as well.
I'm sure toolboxes will get nerfed at some point. I was expecting it shortly after medkits got nerfed, but it still hasn't happened yet.
When I hear people complaining about Deja Vu it feels like watching someone side step a pot hole and then fall of a bridge in the process.
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@ChaosWam said:
Is it always on purpose though, or is that just something the internet has stirred up because of VPNs?
Sure I guarantee some people manipulate their internet speeds to gain an advantage, but as someone who has dealt with rural internet it's not always malicious or beneficial for the player. Lag has always been an issue with online gaming. We just have to accept that sometimes. I get plenty of matches where survivors rubberband around and I lose them in chase while the scratchmarks struggle to keep up.
It should be the same for survivors. If they are lagging horrifically and it's giving them an advantage then they should get booted from the game and replaced with a bot.
My issue is that there's no reason for killers to not lag out their connection when they play. It incentivizes them to do so and in turn ruins the match for the other 4 players. If anyone should be punished for lagging horribly, it should be the player who is lagging, not everyone else.
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3% haste has substantially more impact than 6% increased gen repair speed. It's not even close.
Again, nerfing Deja Vu does next to nothing to fix the complaint that killers have about gen speeds. If you want to fix that then toolboxes should be your target.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
It's like that for just about all the killers. It's just like how Blight has a lot of counterplay, but most survivors don't even bother to learn how his collision works, or what his limitations are on large angle turn rates, and therefore just assume he's overpowered.
For example, what percentage of survivors can look at a shack wall, and tell if it has broken collision? What percentage of survivors can look at a rock, and tell which angles have broken collision? What percentage of survivors can explain why the newer map designs were a big nerf for Blight?
The main problem with killers isn't whether or not they have counterplay. The main problem is whether or not survivors are even bothering to figure out the counterplay, because if there are enough survivors that (for whatever reason), just aren't understanding the counterplay, then the killer might be on the chopping block for nerfs. And that is what happened to Sadako.
In defense of the average survivor, how are they meant to learn any of that stuff? This game is not intuitive and mostly requires players to grind their face against the wall for hundreds of hours to figure stuff out.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648586#Comment_3648586
Only if you run it by itself. Add toolboxes and other perks to the mix.
I personally run it with my stake out/hyperfocus/fogwise build and have had a ton of matches of me doing more than half the gen progress by myself and breaking any killer 3 gens before they become a problem. It's pretty strong if the killer leaves me alone at all.
So nerfing Deva Vu wouldn't really do anything in that scenario. The gens would still fly by. You would have to nerf everything else you mentioned to have any real impact.
The 6% from Deja Vu is not the problem.
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It would be nice if there was something to give survivors some sort of boost if someone dies early. It's massively demotivating when someone gets tunneled out or just dies early on before much progress is made. I'd be happy if BHVR just made it harder to tunnel someone out before the match really gets started. Giving survivors a buff because someone decided to 4% on first hook seems somewhat unfair.
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I can't wait to get unhooked at 6 stacks and have my rescuer forget to turn off the nearby tv. That's gonna be fun lmao
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648518#Comment_3648518
Nooooooo please if they do that they'll bork it up and nurf my poor Piggly Wiggly!
I just want that bug where Pig's dash moved at 3mph to come back. That was the funniest thing I've ever seen in this game.
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@Pulsar said:
Survivors are not faster than any Killer except for a walking Nurse.
That does seem somewhat unfair. They should buff Nurse.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648200#Comment_3648200
Fair play dude, I wasn't trying to single out anything you'd done, I wasn't there to see it. 😁
I was merely throwing up the idea that not everything is black and white, and it can be understandable people get upset at others saying GG.
(This example is not in DBD) I myself have had people play obnoxious builds, absolutely dominate, BM, single me out and bully me, the whole 9 yards, then have the gall to immediately throw a "GG 😉" at me. In the game I'm referring to, they were deliberately doing it to be condescending and patronising, to rile me up so I would say something bannable. I might have misinterpreted it, but given I later found out they were banned as a hacker, it seems pretty likely my gut was right. As such I empathise with people who get frustrated by it, even if it wasn't meant that way... as when your emotions are running high, you're not in your best frame of mind to make the assessment.
From the sounds of it, you may have just encountered a sore loser, and I wouldn't take it personally. There are some people who, even if you do absolutely nothing wrong, will still be immature about it.
If you know you were polite, friendly and careful not to get anyones back up, you're in the right and should keep doing what you're doing. Don't let one jerk change how you treat people.
Thanks. I'm not going to let the experience sour my attitude towards the game. I'm just not going anywhere near anyone's stream again lmao
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@Xernoton said:
It is. Although it is pretty uncommon. For many people losing is enough to consider the game unfun. But not everyone can win.
My standards on this game are so low. As long as the killer doesn't tunnel someone out early game I think they're great. Doesn't matter whether I die or not.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647890#Comment_3647890
Just to play Devil's Advocate...
Has anyone ever said 'Calm down, it is just a game...' to you when your emotions are high and/or you've been frustrated at a game?
Saying GG after completely smashing someone, is basically the same thing. If someone has been completely dominated, they're likely balancing emotions such as shame, embarrassment, frustration and anger... especially if that loss is recorded and viewed in the public domain such as a stream, and in that scenario you're the level headed one.
Now that doesn't excuse the other persons behaviour, if you say "GG" genuinely and they take it the wrong way and explode at you, that is indeed on them. However... there is a certain amount of responsibility on your side to read the room and avoid escalating the situation.
You are of course free to ignore that responsibility, but by doing so, you are testing that persons patience, so you don't then get to complain if it does blow up in your face... a little bit of understanding and empathy on your part would completely avoid the alteraction discussed in the OP.
In my defense, I did read the room. The streamer seemed to be in good spirits, so I said hi. If they had sounded angry I would have just left without saying anything.
Killers complain that survivors are toxic as hell, so I thought I'd offer a handshake. The same way I often leave items at the exit gate for killers who don't tunnel people out. After that last encounter, I have decided to just not bother interacting with my opponents. It's just not worth it.
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I'm currently running OtR purely to avoid the bodyblock then count to ten strat. Combine that with DH and you can collect a lovely bottle of salty Clown tears.
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They said they are looking at it. We got no more info than that. It didn't sound like they had already decided to nerf his basekit, more that they might be considering it.
I assume they are going to see how strong he is now that they have completed his add-on pass. So they can decide whether basekit nerfs are warranted.
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I think Boon: Illumination should break the mold of boon perks and just make it so all survivors can see the auras of generators all the time regardless of whether they are in the boon's range or not. It would be great for less experienced survivors and help solo queue players coordinate against 3 gen strats.
It's benefits would be limited for experienced SWF players whilste being genuinely useful for everyone else.
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Any time people want something that actually has impact on gameplay there is pushback. Haste? Nope. Gen speed? Nope. Stealth? Nope. Vault speed? Nope. Endurance? Nope. Healing speed? Nope. Anti-tunnel? Nope.
I think we have to accept that some perks are going to affect the game's balance. Otherwise we end up with boring, mediocre perks that nobody bothers running.
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Trying to break a 3 gen in solo queue is still awful.
There's no guarantee you will get 4 survivors who can loop well. So survivors that go down in about 20 seconds provide very little value to their team. Likely costing you more gen progress than you can gain whilst they are looping.
Eventually gens will be in dead zones, meaning even good survivors will go down fast.
There's always a chance that nobody on the team will have gen perks or good toolboxes.
Information killers like Doctor make it almost impossible to stealth. Combine that with dead zones and players go down even faster.
Beating a 3 gen requires coordination and in solo you don't have that.
Killers can still drag a match out well over 30 minutes and still not reach the 8 regression event limit.
This solution really only addressed the 1 hour gen stalemate. Solo queue still needs help to counter this strategy. Maybe giving us something like Alert, but for generators could help. So survivors who can't coordinate can still see where the killer is patrolling the gens. Maybe show the last 3 generators' auras after a while? I don't know. But we need something.
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Are SWF actually strong in Lights Out?
"I see the killer".
"Where?"
"Somewhere".
"He's kicking the gen".
"Which one?"
"The one near something".
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647623#Comment_3647623
Actually, if I remember correctly, BHVR said somewhere last year that both Myers and Freddy are SUPPOSEDLY planned to be reworked(meaning that Freddy would be receiving his second ever rework), but they were pushed back or something due to being less of a priority(likely due to all the new game systems that they've been working on such as AFC, new gen system, etc and all of the killer reworks that they've already been doing for more of the problematic killers like Skull Merchant, Billy, etc).
It would be nice to not have to wait years for them to rework one add-on.