THE_Crazy_Hyena
THE_Crazy_Hyena
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- THE_Crazy_Hyena
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Big improvement over the release version of the skin. Actually playable now
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018834#Comment_4018834
I'll alwayss be baffled by the response to fog vials. They weren't even an issue. Killers said "annoying" and "spammable" and survivors said "fun" and "toy." Not exactly conceening wording on either side—and they got nuked. They appeared to be considering either a charge increase or an opacity revert and nothing happened.
It will forever be baffling to me as well.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019769#Comment_4019769
And that's good. The stuff that countered tunneling was absurdly strong.
We just need to also reign in tunneling now as well.
Yes, it has gone on for a bit too long. I wouldn't mind if it got less attractive to go for the tunnel, especially early in the game.
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@Pulsar said:
Because the root cause is opportunity.
Killers do not need to tunnel. They want to, because it makes the game vastly easier. There's also pretty much zero meaningful consequence to tunneling in 99% of cases.
Now, how do we know this? Well, because we've seen tunneling remain through every meta. Before 6.1, we heard the cries(from myself even) that people would stop tunneling if only DH and DS were nerfed. While some did stop, most increased how frequently they tunneled because it got easier. Apply that to every update and here we are.
Unfortunately, BHVR chickened out on actually curbing the issue by making there be real consequences. A 3v1 is still the best situation for the Killer to be in, ergo, we will still see a massive amount of tunneling.
It has definitely been a thing since the early days.
But it is a lot harder to counter nowadays, with how much the game has changed. -
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019626#Comment_4019626
So you are the type that rather nerfs everything than looks at problems from more vievs, your ideas are same as bhvr balancing addons just nerfing good and used ones and are oblivious to the fact others arent used becasue they are bad same way just nerf and punish tunneling without seeing full picture why it happens (tunneling on 5 gens ism bad but than its just most effective way to get presure same as doing gens with survivor).
Im currently playing more survivor because of chalanges and my escape rate is better than before without some crazy antitunnel perks or features and still I dont sream here survivors dont need better antitunnel protection because Im doing fine without it and so should others.
Have you actually faced against the really "dead-set" ones who hard-tunnels yet?
Myself, @cogsturning and @For_The_People can give you many examples on how it is going against those.
Spoiler alert: It isn't fun at allNot implying that you haven't, but the frequency of that happening to our group has really left a sour taste in our mouths when it comes to survivor gameplay for the time being. It usually happens in around 1/3 of our matches, sometimes more frequent, and sometimes less, depending on the time of the day.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019572#Comment_4019572
As there should be better rewards than those that are in ptb now for not tunneling dont you think too, punishing one side for doing one thing that is tactic but you dont want to see it on 5 gens like some comp game you cant just punish it but have to reward doing the opposite too which is some thing some survivor only enjoyers dont see because they are stuck playing one role and cry about their main role only something that isnt able to balance the game because they see only one side of the coin and are too bling to see other side tho.
Thing is, I don't play exclusively survivor. I play both sides, although I play mostly along with friends.
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Salutes
Congrats on hitting P100 😄
Any plans on who's next? -
@WriteByDaylight_ said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5K00RWSSYPHO/i-miss-dbd-floweres.png
I miss when we had the Moonlight offerings.
They were simple, but they gave every match a different mood.
Full Moon trials had this eerie brightness to them, and the darker ones made stealth feel way more real.
It’s one of those small features you don’t realize you appreciate until it’s gone.The game still plays fine without them, but the atmosphere isn’t quite the same.
BHVR Please… Let Me See the Moon Again 😭🌕
I have plenty of times made a wish for the return of moonlight offerings, but reworked into something that would fit the current DBD.
Like having the new moon boquet turn daytime maps into nighttime variants, with a different lighting, and have the full moon boquet do the opposite, turning nighttime maps into daytime variants.
I have also wished for variants that could change the weather, or ambience in any way, like a thick fog (similar to the classic maps), rain, thunderstorm etc.Like @cogsturning mentioned, it would probably be a buggy mess, but it would definitely add a MUCH better atmosphere to the game.
And could you imagine playing against a stealthy killer, with a thunderstorm ambience on the map. Low visibility, but during the flashes of lightning, you could see the killer in the distance. That would be absolutely creepy, and would for sure bring true horror back to the game. -
@まうっす said:
If you hook a different Survivor, they'll become faster for 15 seconds!
What difference does such a useless benefit make?
There also needs to be a downside to tunnel people at 5 gens remaining as well.
This new update does absolutely nothing to address that issue. -
@Paribean said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019431#Comment_4019431
All it takes is a medkit with addons or for the tunneled survivor to just lead the killer to the other survivors to divert the killers focus, it´s not that hard. And with the pallet density update half of the maps have good RNG. Also if you don´t pick your teammates in solo queue then that´s on you. There´s a reason why survivor tier lists and stereotypes exist and why a lot of the time an average solo queue lobby has frequent lobby dodging.
I don't know what reality you live in, but if the killer has decided to tunnel someone, they absolutely WILL tunnel that someone out, regardless of what teammates do to help the poor sod.
SoloQ amplifies this problem even more. You can't really pick your teammates in soloQ -
@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018305#Comment_4018305
Shouldn't this have been the approach they should have used for fog vials too? Instead they just did a sweeping adjustment across the board rather than granular ones? If they touch pallet density, what makes you sure they'd turn their focus on individual maps rather than their M.O. of wide-sweeping changes?
I see they are trying to take organized feedback for each map in their social spaces, but I'm seeing many disagreeing opinions on whether a map needs pallets or not for each realm. This community couldn't even collectively agree that the sky is blue.
This should have been the approach to everything.
Considering how they asked the community about the individual realms when it comes to the pallet changes, I think that would be the best approach moving forward with bigger changes, but like you mentioned that the community itself is highly divided when it comes to balance.
Though for us who can see the bigger picture, we know which maps benefits best from the changes and which ones got too negatively affected.But knowing the decision making, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the changes got completely reverted, even though it provided a nice break against tunneling, since weaker killers were too negatively affected by the general pallet changes.
I also agree with your statement about the fog vials, and how the changes should have been smaller, instead of giving them the Skull Merchant treatment.
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@tes said:
Oni
I hate Oni with a passion, but I guess that is more thanks to the players, and not anything inherently bad with his design.
As for my pick for balanced killers, I would actually say Wesker.
For the longest time, Demogorgon was seen as the most fair and balanced killer, but with the power creep in the game, Wesker seems to have taken this spot. He is like Demo+ if that makes sense.
He has clear counterplay, and a power that is both fun to master, and to play against. Dodging that dash and sending him flying through a window is one of the most satisfying things as a survivor playing against him. -
@solidgamer44 said:
voice chat would be nice, but that would require BHVR to start banning people that are toxic and that's alotta work and ppl will still be slippin through.
It would be a disaster.
Believe me, I was a Counter-Strike player for many, many years. The amount of bad stuff that I have heard through voice chat in that game (a game that isn't particularly known to be toxic either), is concerning to say the least. -
@Crockodilich said:
Let’s be real — the current state of Dead by Daylight can feel rough.
Tunneling, DCs, stressful matches… sometimes it’s hard to remember why we started playing in the first place.So here’s a little idea — a call to anyone who wants to join in:
Let’s have some “Kind Killer” nights.
Play for fun, not for kills. Chase, laugh, vibe, and then let the survivors go free. Let them dance at the exit gates and enjoy a rare match filled with good energy instead of salt, maybe even give everyone a clean escape — just because you can.It’s not about ignoring the competition — it’s about reminding ourselves that we make this community special. Every small act of kindness sends a ripple through the fog.
So if you’re reading this and thinking, yeah, I could do that once in a while — this call is for you!
Let’s make the fog a better place, one friendly trial at a time.Every time I play Scratched Mirror, I am always chill about it.
I'll do what I can to scare the living daylights out of the survivors, but I always let them go in the end, and I always meme around in the end as well, such as turning into Michael Jackson at the exit gates -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017470#Comment_4017470
I'm only half serious about that. After the recent post asking if abandons count as deaths (and it appears they don’t) was ignored, I don't really trust survivor stats anymore.
But I think it's the whole thing. This person says they don't play much surv but calls it easy. "I quit" posts also aren't helpful, and what does not playing how you want even mean? What can't you do that you could before?
But hey, I can also drop this and say "KiLlEr iS eAsY mOdE"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D6Y0B2I955AQ/screenshot-20251022-122709.jpg
Killer is easy 😅
But so can survivor be as well, as long as you play with friends. 64.73% is nothing to scoff at, considering that my build is far from meta.
Also, the pallet update definitely shifted the balance towards survivor, which is fairly noticeable in my 30-day average.
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@Amanova said:
Never, and now they wanna nerf pallet spawn to please killers, gonna uninstall soon this one sided game
I don't think they will completely revert the pallet changes, but instead focus on rebalancing it on the maps that were severely affected.
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Debatable in all honesty.
It all comes down to which killer you play / face.
This is also amplified by the pallet update, which has further widened the gap between the A / S-tiers, and the lower tiered killers. While the S-tier killers are as strong as ever, the weaker ones are definitely struggling to keep up with the increasing survivor efficiency, and easier looping, and more killer players are preferring the higher tiers, because those are significantly easier to do well with.Playstyle also plays a major role in this statement. With how prevalent tunneling has become, the game is further skewing towards the killer side in terms of stats.
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Temple feels fine now, but Mother's Dwelling needs a reduction in the pallet density, especially around the trees.
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Borgo feels fine, especially the Shattered Square map.
Pallet distribution is fair, and the loops are not too easy to chain.
The problem however is Forgotten Ruins. While the outside area got significantly better for Survivors, the main problem with the map is still very much present. From the outside, there is just one point of entry to the dungeon, and yes, I do count the portal in the back a part of the tower, since you end up close to the stairs leading up to the outside anyways. The dungeon part is also very lacking in pallets, and safe loops. Granted, you do have the one deep room with the boardwalk, and a window vault leading into it, but that is pretty much the only safe area in the entire dungeon.
Also, there are no other entry points into the dungeon, other than through the tower, and the only other exits are via the one-way portals. No other stairs or ways to get out of there.Also, why cannot the hatch spawn in the dungeons?
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Haddonfield feels very fine to play on after the update. Pallet distribution and spacing is pretty fair, and I think this map needs to be kept in its current form.
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This realm got way too survivor-sided after the update.
The only thing that was needed was a shift that prevented pallets to spawn on the upper level of Disturbed Ward, and instead had one semi-safe tile added to the outside as compensation.When I tested the changes on the PTB, I managed to get a seed that spawned two jungle gyms with pallets in them, next to eachother. This should absolutely never happen.
Father Campbells Chapel on the other hand feels okay, but it has always had a very strong main building, with some insanely strong window spawns.
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Here is my breakdown of the different map variants:
- Rancid Abattoir - This one needed the pallet update the most out of all maps in the game, along with Haddonfield, due to its massive deadzones all around the main building, with little to no loops available whatsoever. Today it feels perfectly fine, albeit a little too small, which makes the tiles spawn very close together.
- Rotten Fields - Got significantly better after the update, as it is not a massive deadzone around the lone shack in the middle anymore. It is in a fine spot, but it could have been spaced a bit better, since tiles spawn so close together.
- The Thompsons House - It has become a bit survivor-sided after the update. It was in a fine-ish spot before the update, where it only needed a filler between the house and the cow tree. Now it has a bit too much safety for survivors.
- Fractured Cowshed - Pallet-wise it feels okay, but the small size of the map makes the tiles way too easy to chain together.
- Torment Creek - It was the most balanced Coldwind map before the update, but now it has become very survivor-sided, thanks to how easy it is to chain loops.
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@cogsturning said:
Someone needs to go into customs and get some footage of this. This is even worse than than the Sreetwise bug if it's consistently occurring and has no trigger.
We could run a custom later if you have time, so that we can get footage.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016545#Comment_4016545
WhaWhat i want is a hard fix. Not a shift then fix, because if they shift it, it will take longer to fix the problem.
"Why does it feel like C or Y killer needs to do this"
Should be answered just as much, and with equal appeal to
"Why do survivors feel they have to use x or y perk"
WWe Need both sides to enjoy the game. And both sides should have equal say. But we got entitled people on both sides ruining discussion
Good questions.
And you are right in what you said in the end. Both sides needs equal say, so that we can get a proper balance, and acceptance of the new state of the game afterwards.
Though, I also have an idea that some of the issues we see in the game boils down to MMR not being a particularly robust system. Just think about it, how many times have you been running into players that are either new (like less than 100 hours), or you run into someone that is way out of your league (10,000+ hours) -
In my opinion:
True tunneling = Going out of your way to remove a survivor from the trial as fast as possible. This means, dropping chase or not applying pressure anywhere as soon as the "target" is unhooked.
Staggered tunneling = Same as true tunneling, but alternating between two selected survivors until at least one of them is sacrificed.
Accidental tunneling = When you are going for someone else, only for the last unhooked to cross path with you mid chase (often when injured). You can choose to ignore that survivor completely, or just go for the easy down and hook.
Excessive slugging = Going out of your way to down and bleed out all 4 survivors, thus eliminating any chance for a comeback, unless Boon: Exponential or Unbreakable is in play.
Strategic slugging = If someone is bodyblocking you when trying to go for another Survivor, you can choose to slug the bodyblocker, while focusing on your initial target. This is especially true if you have a feeling that the bodyblocking survivor has DS.
Petty slugging = Slugging for the 4K / finisher mori
Timeout slugging = When the survivors are doing silly stuff, sometimes it is better to slug them as a "time-out" and go for someone else instead. They can't do flashlight saves, or sit on gens while on the ground now, can they?
You can also use the slug as bait for another survivor, especially if you play stealthy builds and doing jumpscares. -
@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016607#Comment_4016607
This topic is wild.
I can't believe it's still going.
We could keep it going you know
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016791#Comment_4016791
Yeah, as far as Scratched Mirror goes, we won pretty much, except for the odd rarity increase.
Yeah, that one I am not very happy about.
I usually get 3-4 per 1 million BP spent, down from 6-8 on average before, since you could often get multiple per bloodweb, which is not the case with the iri version. -
He really isn't that strong, once you know how to play against him.
You can juke the axe quite easily, and it is far more punishing for him to miss his throw, as compared to Huntress. -
@For_The_People said:
Sometimes I go on ninetails fox Yui outings with @THE_Crazy_Hyena and @cogsturning lol
For sure, and here is one of our adventures as the Foxy squad (along with a random Mikaela).
Even better that the killer also had "tails", and was totally into our antics -
@Mandy said:
I have been a Nea main since she released in 2016, I'm so used to playing her that despite occasionally playing other characters for a few matches, I will always go back to playing her. Zebra pants, Iron Maiden Shirt with either the L3 head or the prestige one - that's me!
Everyone used to refer to Nea as the entity so she was really the underdog when she came out, and as a Brit, gotta love the underdog!
Nea, totally not the Entity
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Sable is my main. Quite simply because I like the goth aesthetic, and the quirky voice lines.
I got her to P100 earlier this year, and then I started working on my next.
Feng was my original main, back when I started playing around Halloween 7 years ago.
I felt it was only fitting that I went the distance with her too.
Last week, I hit my goal, and Feng got to P100 as well.
Now I have started working on my next survivor, but she will be a secret for later.As for killers, I am currently in the process of getting Myers up to P100 - Currently at P16
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As someone who plays a lot of Scratched Mirror, I do like that he can actually lunge, and move faster now.
Makes him quite a bit scarier -
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016439#Comment_4016439
A friendly blight? No way
The Ace squad has a very high charm-factor ;)
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016087#Comment_4016087
Hey i get what your trying to say with this.
But I have two problems with this idea.
The likelihood of BHVR devs balancing per killer is low. I mean look at one of the ones they nerfed into oblivion, Skull merchant.
While I agree its doable, its just super unlikely it will happen. And any trust the devs currently have is at rock bottom.
And my second problem with this is... its just gonna shift the unfairness and upset feelings from survivor to killers, which Isn't fixing the problem, its just shifting the problem.
Technically, it would shift first, but once the initial shift has happened, it would be easier to see where the problems are.
Though first off, I would have suggested rolling back on some decisions regarding the pallet update, as it certainly didn't help the majority of the killer roster. Like what has been the case with some of the realms, and more specifically MacMillan, Crotus Prenn, Autohaven and the Swamp.After that, there should be a definite focus on tunneling.
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@cogsturning said:
The 4man boogieman is not real. You don't become good by playing on a team. You might just be a potato on a team of other potatoes who like each other. The truly skilled 4mans are rarer than people act like they are.
I don't mind the potato squad, as long as we can have fun games together. And that is the true purpose of SWF.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016144#Comment_4016144
Tunnelling is about capitalising mistakes.
No, it's not.
Not when it's a decision the killer can make in the lobby. And that's the tunneling that people complain about.
This isn't "I got lucky and found you later", this is "I'm conditioned to go immediately back to hook when the notification tells me to and chase the person to death".
It is not a mistake to be found first. Period.
And you can't claim that it's a "weak link" because you have only chased the first person you found. It's mainly RNG at the start of the match who that is. Even if the killer chooses that person in the lobby.
And you recognize this:
You can tunnel and lose because we're holding too long a chase and the survivors capitalised mistake.
Yes, if you have a survivor that can maybe survive long enough, which involves a host of factors including RNG because of maps, killer kits, matchmaking, and teammates. And you can drop chase, but here's the thing...
All roads lead to tunneling being the "correct" decision:
If the first chase is short, "oh good, I can get this survivor out of the game easily. I'm going to tunnel".
If the first chase wasn't short: "in too invested in this survivor and need a comeback. I'm going to tunnel".
And it stops being a strategy if there's no chance the player is going to change tactics. If everything leads to tunneling, and for many it does, then there's nothing that the other team can do to change that.
"Strategy" as a concept heavily implies that you can change that strategy based on outside factors. In DbD that might be map choice, or mainly, how your opponent plays.
And for survivors this does happen: you can plan to gen rush, but if the killer chases you, you have to switch to evading. For killers who tunnel excessively, they can choose to tunnel every single match and survivors have nothing they can do to change that.
And that is the problem. One person doesn't get a chance to play the will rounded survivor experience that should include things like gen repair, rescue, healing/recovery, as well as killer interactions like chase.
And that's because there's no limit to tunneling. No restriction, no downside. And for a lot of people, the only result is boosting their MMR leading to MMR and other balance complaints, simply because they're in over their head.
Those limits are what people are asking for. Those limits are absolutely necessary for game health at this point.
Couldn't said it better myself.
Those limits needs to be a thing, because once those are in place, it would be much easier to properly balance the game around that.
Hypothetically, if you took out tunneling completely, and then carefully monitored the escape rates that followed this change, I am sure there could be changes to survivors, to push the escape rates closer to the targetted 40%. Bear in mind that Japanese gameplay is much more gentleman-like, where tunneling is so to say non-existent.
As we saw in the latest summary from the Japanese community, the global average escape rates were sitting between 37-40% depending on party size, which is lower than it should be. Pretty sure the release of broken killers, and the over-abundance of tunneling isn't helping the average survivor.
And this is exactly why there has to be a change for the better.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016016#Comment_4016016
This would be the ideal, but I think they went for the blanket fix because it was easier. Imagine how much work they'll have to do on each killer.
It would take a tremendous amount of work, that much is true. Doable, but it would take a long time to get true balance.
Though it might be the only way to make everyone happy with the game.
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I play survivor:
- Dead Dawg Saloon - Most frequent map for me.
- Toba Landing
- Nostromo Wreckage
- Midwich
- Hawkins
I play killer:
- Léry's
- Corn maps
- Autohaven
- MacMillan
- Garden of Joy
- Greenville
I play Scratched Mirror:
- Where are all the indoor maps?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016006#Comment_4016006
you misunderstand me, the reason i ask this is because i have an escape rate of 60% escape rate. 20% above to the 40% mark bhvr aims for. if killers getting 20% more than the devs aim for and that calls for a nerf then shoud we nerf survivors too?
As I mentioned, if you take out tunneling/slugging, and gather data from there on, it would be easier to balance the game after that point. That also includes the survivors.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015997#Comment_4015997
where some players can manage an 80-90% kill-rate.
But same with survivors. I mean… looking at people I’m acknowledged with or it's their friends.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TDHQ8UZCRAOK/img-1810.jpeg
I have 50/70 proportion as survivor/killer, despite playing solo q and not S tier killer. The proportion of 20% + keeping as same in both cases. And I don’t slug for 4k, and don’t farm my teammates. I don't bring meta every match.
I don’t find reasonable to balance game around extremes. It's like current pallet update that just doubled amount of them. Is it reasonable? In some sense yes, because S tier killers more in demand. Is it actually fair or solve issue of dead zones/disproportionate play? No. In general, pallet density provoked more people to play S tier or sweat, and made general experience worse.
If average rate is what devs were aiming for, then it’s no need in changing fundamentals. I don't deny tunneling need adjustment. Solo need more tools for dealing with it. Showing hook stages for killer was unnecessary from the start. Maybe hiding phase progress so killer wouldn't feel the urgent need to camp until struggle phase will hit, and for doing this they actually should heavily focus on it, less paying attention to other stuff. And S tier killers need to be seriously addressed - they should be have build up power concept instead or having great punishment in some sence, like Nurse suffering from blindness after blink to prevent excessive aura read abuse or greater cooldown of tokens for Blight from the start of the game, so he need to hook more for getting less excessive cooldown.
No one denies here tunnelling can be adjusted. It's more about should it be removed completely as effective approach. I still don't see any valid reason beside sentiment.
Another reason of inflated rates for some people is absence of SBMM or weird win conditions. Like killer can do 2 kills only every match yet keep 50% killrate. Yet from game perspective it would rather should count as tie for both sides and don’t influence on overall win rate. We have big gaps between players. Yet tunnelling isn't the thing that defines this gap. It's not the thing that actual distort stats. Stats gathering from the start is build in rather unreliable method and don't always reflect their actual skill
While I do agree that the pallet update was completely unnecessary for most of the realms affected, and does nothing to address the real problem.
And a better re-distribution of killer power, so that everyone gets on a more even playing field. Like you mentioned about Nurse and Blight, to make them fairer to play against, but also not make them too hard to play as, as a result of the changes.
I do believe it would be significantly easier to properly balance things if you take out "strategies" that artificially inflate numbers.That is the whole idea behind the removal of tunneling/slugging. Making the game more easy to balance in the end.
Also, when mentioning pallets, I too noticed a big uptick in escape rates, thanks to that update.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015997#Comment_4015997
am i reading this right. extreme cases where killers are getting 80% to 90% kill rate being inflated by tunneling…so remove tunneling and slugging to see an accurate statistic? does this apply to survivor too?
What exactly are you trying to achieve with that statement?
I have seen many screenshots posted of kill-rates in the 80-90% range, where the OP was admitting to tunneling.
So take away tunneling/slugging, and get the accurate data for survivor as well. If the average escape rates shoots into the sky as a result of no tunneling/slugging, then those could be addressed by buffing killers accordingly.
Can you see the big picture in my statement? -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015964#Comment_4015964
It is practically impossible to argue that anti-tunnel is impossible to balance
Quote? Okay. Here above. If you have hard time with reading again and need quotes of stuff you messaged an hour before… Just to get to know - talking that some concept impossible to balance is also arguing about balancing. You can’t be selective in this terms. Everything is possible to be argued in this regard or nothing.
Psychology is not balance. How you 'feel' about things doesn't change the balance of it. Whether you have a 50% winrate that feels good, or you have one that feels bad, both are balanced.
This is assymetrical game. It should be balanced around assymetry. 50% rate should be justified by actual play and not handholding as it was on PTB. Last official stats from devs showed 40/60% average rates. Devs claimed them as what they always wish for their game. Psychology is just a way to explain why it's happening.
What, in those 9 years, have they attempted?
- Bt base kit.
- Anti face camp system and Remove of hook grabs to give more opportunities to rescue to prevent tunneling being actually free.
- The anti-tunnel perks existed since first licences chapter.
If
YOUwant to claim that none of them can work, it is up to
YOUto dismantle each and every single one of them. You are the one making the claim, you back it up.
I did in post. You ignored or said “it is not actually true, it's working”, but when I asked for proofs, you firstly backed up and failed to provide it. Because you didn't play PTB or just refused to show gameplay. Anti tunnel works on it's own, doesn't work with balancing.Hens showcase pulled one of the most broken killer as Blight with extremely handicapped survivor team showed. If BROKEN killer can’t deal with this system, not broken killer can’t compete at all. Only if their opponents are acknowledgely worse by skill set in advance of game had broken rgn. After this they put other problematic killer post rework as Clown. No chances. Person on killer was as experienced as his opponents. So again - it is players playing against system and not against players, pushing broken stuff more forward. If you are claiming that anti tunnel can be balanced, it's your duty to prove it. Which you ultimately failed. Create a custom game in future PTB, provide balancing for match, select players of the same level. After this you’ll be able to prove it can be balanced at least in ideal sterile condition. Saying “base kit pop is enough” isn't a proof of this system to work, especially when people explain why. Hens gameplay showecase proved simply better than this. Many videos proved it better.
I’ll ask again - why this system have to exist beside just emotional demand. And why this demand is healthy and prevalent one. And why we pretending it’s people false they refuse to adapt to changes, while the only reason this PTB was proposed is some people failing to adapt to tunneling. “Adapt” argument doesn't work here because backfires.
This is assymetrical game. It should be balanced around assymetry. 50% rate should be justified by actual play and not handholding as it was on PTB. Last official stats from devs showed 40/60% average rates. Devs claimed them as what they always wish for their game. Psychology is just a way to explain why it's happening.
While the average is fairly balanced, as it should be, it still does not take the more extreme cases into account, where some players can manage an 80-90% kill-rate. Many of which are inflated to such numbers, because of tunneling.
If we got rid of the tunneling and slugging, then we could have gotten more accurate data on what the TRUE average is.Take out the cheese strats = Get more accurate data on how the actual Kill Rate is sitting at
More accurate data = Easier to buff/nerf certain characters accordingly.So, take out the problematic aspects of the game, then gather data from that point, and finally make adjustments based on the new data gathered. In the end, I think everyone would be happier with the outcome of a truly balanced game, both killer players and survivor players alike.
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- Friends Till the End (nerf)
- Redcue the aura reading to base 4 seconds (similar to BBQ)
- Giving the most recently unhooked survivor a grace period against becoming the Obsession. - Pain Resonance (nerf)
- Permanently disabled if the killer tunnels someone out before spending all the tokens. - Dead Man's Switch (nerf)
- Permanently disabled if the killer tunnels someone out before hooking all survivors at least once. - Surge (nerf)
- Has a cooldown of 20 seconds after being triggered. - Infectious Fright (rework)
- Now will only trigger its effect when the survivors look at (killer) for 4/3/2 seconds
- Survivors will chain-scream and reveal their locations if they are within 24/28/32 meters of the first screaming survivor. - Head On (nerf)
- The survivor becomes Broken for 40/35/30 seconds, instead of Exhausted. - Cut Loose (buff)
- Doubled the time-window in between chain vaults to 12 seconds (was 6 seconds).
- Friends Till the End (nerf)
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First off, the RNG was definitely stacked against the survivors in this case.
But I won't condone the fact that you also tunneled out the first survivor without going for anyone else.
No wonder why the rest of them DC'd. You can't expect people to want to play out a match where they have zero chances, because of bad RNG, plus your toxic decision-making -
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015490#Comment_4015490
i can see the bigger picture. and the bigger picture is removing tunneling will not stop people DCing because people will DC over far more things than just tunneling
I can see the frame of the big picture and the wall it hangs on, if you want to go that far.
That aside, I am fairly positive that the removal of tunneling + excessive slugging (cough cough .. Infectious Fright .. cough cough). I am more than very certain that there would be a significant drop-off in DC's from the survivor side.
For reference, I played several matches today where no one tunneled, and I did not see any outright DC's, other than abandons when all was lost. Even against a sweaty ghoul, no one dc'd, because he didn't tunnel people off of the hooks.
So prove me wrong, but tunneling is indeed the number one cause for DC's -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014639#Comment_4014639
You know that new stuff takes some games to adjust to, right?No one is going to be instantly proficient on a new killer, or a completely reworked one.I do think this is a big point where BHVR really messed up by cancelling the PTB so quickly. It didn't give people time to adjust their playstyles or, for people who never tunneled, to be more successful as the new meta fit within their playstyle more naturally.
And it was just a misunderstanding of the extreme ends of the spectrum (the streamers with huge hour counts) and how much they would impact the overall numbers if they could no longer go on substantial win streaks.
It also was hampered by trying to do all of the pallet changes at the same time. I feel like if the choice had been anti-tunnel system or more pallets lots of killers would have taken the anti-tunnel.
You know, I am pretty sure that would have been the case too.
Considering how many posts there has been regarding pallets over the past two weeks or so.It would have made more sense to test either in a separate way, not just everything at once.
- Yes, some maps really needed the increase in pallets, like a few Coldwind variants, Borgo, the Pale Rose, and Haddonfield. But MacMillan was perfect the way it was beforehand, and some others just needed a minor increase (like one or two extra pallets). And Crotus Prenn really didn't need to become more dense with pallets, only shifting around some tile spawns, to reduce a dead zone that could occur in front of the Asylum.But to not get sidetracked here, there should have been a separate test period for the anti-tunnel / anti-slug changes, to test the impact on the playerbase after adjusting to the other changes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014639#Comment_4014639
So you obviously think that Ghoul should have been released exactly as he was on the PTB, and there should have been a mandatory “wait and see” amount of time, where BHVR gathered data from a wider audience.
And only after all that happens, could Ghoul finally have received his first nerf?
Ghoul was horribly bugged on the PTB, which is a different story altogether.
It's sort of funny how powerful 6.1.0 is in an argument just because the Killer complaints haven't changed. 😵
That much is true. Also 6.7.2 from a survivor's standpoint @UnicornMedal
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014535#Comment_4014535
The last time survivor complaints hit critical mass, was when the healing times got massively increased. And if you remember correctly, BHVR ended up reverting the healing times for altruistic healing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014534#Comment_4014534
You can just observe the 6000+ hour streamers, that usually just stomp over the vast majority of their PTB games, that were having severely reduced kill rates.
But really, it's common sense the kill rates would be majorly affected. For reals, do you think killers camp, tunnel, and slug because they are hateful and spiteful towards survivors, or do you think they do these things because they are at severe game disadvantages if they avoid doing these things?
Like seriously, of course the kill rates are going to go way down. The incentives were absolutely terrible. Do you really think nerfed BBQ, that was easily dodged, and often showed 0 survivors, was really going to help killers spread hooks?
Am I stuck in an alternate universe? Does anyone really REALLY think that the phase 2 changes wouldn't have severely lowered the kill rates, if it went live as it was?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014529#Comment_4014529
Why difference does it really make that it was a few days? You still would have whined and complained if they waited 3 weeks. And if the changes went live, and were reverted shortly afterwards, you would have extra triple whined and complained about that.
Why are you pretending that you would have been fine and accepting of the patch revert, if BHVR took longer before the announcement?
The last time survivor complaints hit critical mass, was when the healing times got massively increased. And if you remember correctly, BHVR ended up reverting the healing times for altruistic healing.
That was in Patch 6.7.2 - Only self-healing got affected by the changes, not altruistic healing. And looping back to the discussion from yesterday, you are once again derailing the topic.
You can just observe the 6000+ hour streamers, that usually just stomp over the vast majority of their PTB games, that were having severely reduced kill rates.
You know that new stuff takes some games to adjust to, right?
No one is going to be instantly proficient on a new killer, or a completely reworked one.Like seriously, of course the kill rates are going to go way down. The incentives were absolutely terrible. Do you really think nerfed BBQ, that was easily dodged, and often showed 0 survivors, was really going to help killers spread hooks?
I on my hand had zero issues with the incentives. Granted the BBQ effect could have lasted a tad longer, but the added gen-regression worked so well.
For reals, do you think killers camp, tunnel, and slug because they are hateful and spiteful towards survivors, or do you think they do these things because they are at severe game disadvantages if they avoid doing these things?
Like killer players always tell us survivor players. "Why don't you just adapt?"
Apply more pressure, and force the survivors off of the gens, instead of trying to chase down someone you know you are going to waste a lot of precious time with.
And do you think that we survivor players split up on gens because we want to gen-rush, or do you think we do this becuase we would be at a severe disadvantage if we grouped up on gens instead?
In short: If you want to keep on tunneling, we will answer with gen-splitting.Am I stuck in an alternate universe? Does anyone really REALLY think that the phase 2 changes wouldn't have severely lowered the kill rates, if it went live as it was?
Initially, it would have lowered the kill rates, because some killer players has artificially inflated their kill rates, thanks to how easy tunneling someone out really is.
But if killers were starting to really struggle, then those hardest affected would have received compensating buffs to be brought closer to the target percentage.
And the system could have been tweaked accordingly through the bug-fix patches.Why difference does it really make that it was a few days? You still would have whined and complained if they waited 3 weeks. And if the changes went live, and were reverted shortly afterwards, you would have extra triple whined and complained about that.
Why are you pretending that you would have been fine and accepting of the patch revert, if BHVR took longer before the announcement?
Well, for starters, the patch would have reached out to many more players, which would provide even more useful data, and valuable insight into how it should be properly balanced.
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sniffs
Do I smell a necro-thread?
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So in short: Another halloween event that is avoidable as survivor. Great.