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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460308#Comment_2460308
Nah I'm not mad at it cause it happens rarely, mostly by bubbas or just boosted killers.
My point is totally out of thinking about the game for a moment, realizing that you have the option to ruin the nature and the flow of the game and also actually do well. it happens quite a lot mostly in solo queue.
Happens rarely. Happens quite a lot.
Which?
And when I said you're mad, I wasn't using that as an insult like most internet clowns do. Everyone gets mad. Who cares.
"Human has an emotion, more at 11!"
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460303#Comment_2460303
Of course the killer had to do something, but there's a reason there's 3 hook states for all the survivors and sometimes camping is smart and needed. I'm talking about instances when the killer just bores the game to death with camping after his first down and also get rewarded from it.
And I could play a baseball game, be the outfield team, and stand still doing nothing and the batter could hit the ball right into a player's hand.
This doesn't mean the game is busted, BUT it certainly means, "Player stood still and won game, more at 11!"
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Like, you're just trying really hard to attach this appearance to it.
"Killer stands still and wins, more at 11!"
But it's so obscenely inaccurate, disingenuous, misleading, and forced.
I understand what you're saying, but it's nothing more than something you got mad at, and then said the line, and felt like it was way more profound than it really is.
That's all there is here.
I'm sorry.
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Right, and I imagine the first hook didn't happen from the Killer standing still.
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What are Survivors doing while working on gens?
Granted, I'm aware they aren't technically standing, but......
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460250#Comment_2460250
Do you really play killer? I played over 1000 hours on killer on red rank and this trick never works.
I the survivor can DH but there's always enough room to go around the bt'ed unhooked guy and stomp the dead harded boy, you just need to wait for it.
Also, of course that camping can be countered if the killer isn't that good in it, especially if you're coordinated, BUT, it doesn't change the fact that this strategy of standing still can still win you games in this said game, which in any other game it won't.
Yeah, Killer is my most played. I admit I haven't seen Survivors smart enough to try that solo-rescue strat, but I've done it many times on Survivor successfully. The only times it won't work is against Save the Best.
Overall, your oversimplification of calling it "standing still to win games" is very awkward.
You could say the same thing about playing goalie on a professional hockey team. "Wow this guy just stood still and won the Stanley Cup! Hockey is so busted."
You see how that's misrepresenting it?
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The truth of the matter is that you gain more pressure by not camping. If you leave the hook, you now have Person 1 on a hook doing nothing, Person 2 moving to the hook, and now you can chase out Person 3 from a gen, leaving only Person 4 working on one.
When you camp, you have 3 people working gens for a while, then 2 people still working gens and a 3rd going for rescue.
When handled correctly, camping is not good for the Killer. And therefore, COMPLAINING about a strategy simply because you failed to counter it is not valuable. In fact, it can lead to game changes that butterfly effect and ruin the game (even more than it already is because of misguidance).
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460221#Comment_2460221
Yeah first of all against a good killer, nah that DH doesn't work i always expect that and that person goes down if he tries to hook bomb.
Secondly, most players who do that are the good campers like bubba but even with other killers u can tunnel/camp pretty easily and still win.
Your last sentence is correct, most of the time it's because the survivors are pretty dumb but that's the issue of this game, most of the survivors will ruin the game and face camping will reveal their bad decision making to your favour.
"Yeah first of all" that DH always works, because now there's a BT'd Survivor between us. It doesn't matter if you expect something that you can't do anything about.
Secondly, yes, camping works a lot of the time because 1) unorganized pub groups with no Kindred, when everyone ends up bailing on gens to go for rescue, and now everyone's there and ALSO still unorganized, and 2) bad SWF's that give you free value for camping. And tunneling works, barring DS, because removing someone early is great for relieving gen pressure. But if you try to tunnel and run into a DS, it's like running into a brick wall, and it means you just WASTED all that time, gaining nothing for it at all. And additionally, most of the time someone gets tunneled, it's because they are just the weak link and are always spotted, and are bad at looping. Of course they're gonna keep getting hooked. It's not the Killer's job to ignore someone that's playing bad. Especially when that person can still push gens, no matter how bad they are.
sigh.
I hate having to spell these things out all the time.
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@Wedeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460204#Comment_2460204
It works cause the devs decided it's a valid tactic. just stand still and wait for the train to crash tactic shows how broken this game is.
If the killer wants to bore himself and the others to death, fine, but why he is rewarded for that?
But the train crashing doesn't mean the train has the problem... It means the driver has the problem...
Campers are easy to address, barring Bubba and Billy.
If you're a solo rescuer, you fake rescue, get M1'd, rescue, Dead Hard past your rescued person who probably gets BT'd, and you both run to a loop with that time. And you can do this near the end of the hook phase so that you milk out the most genwork possible during the camp.
If you're more than 1 person, it's totally trivial and you don't need to blow your Dead Hard.
The amount of games that are lost simply because Survivors aren't good and are too scared to do anything smart is astounding.
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@thefallenloser said:
Okay, hear me out...
Dead Hard's effectiveness is completely overblown, IMO. I think it's only the third best exhaustion perk. Sprint Burst is just better in almost every way and Lithe gives more distance and is much more consistent.
I admit that when used smartly, Dead Hard is pretty effective at extending loops, however, Dead Hard has a ton of weaknesses that people are quick to write off.
- It is severely dependent on latency. The timing sweet spot to effectively dodge a hit can greatly vary from killer to killer and sometimes not even work. Very cool exhausted on the ground.
- It gives way less distance than the other exhaustion perks, hence using less of the killer's time to catch up.
- Its dodging mechanic is ineffective after the killer finds out they have it, or assume they have it and wait.
- It is effectively useless in dead zones. Dodging or making an additional 5 feet of distance is going to do nothing for the survivor other than take an additionally 2 seconds in the corner of the map with no pallets or windows.
I've seen people make the weird claim that "Dead Hard extends chases for minutes at a time." If the Dead Hard extended a chase for that long-- which is definitely a complete exaggeration that says more about the killer's skill than the strength of the perk-- why would you continue to give chase?
I think a good Sprint Burst or Lithe are much harder to deal with than Dead Hard.
_______
After that NOED post, I can only imagine what this one will do...
Alright, let's see what we got in here. I'll respond to the OP first, then go through the thread and see if there's anything else.
Responses to your listed downsides:
- Yes, consistency in DH timing to dodge a direct swing from a Killer is rough. However, I view this usage of DH to be Plan B. Ideally, you are holding DH to get to that obstacle you aren't otherwise going to reach. This can buy you at least one additional loop rotation, if not a total escape. That's Plan A. So the inconsistency of using DH to hard-dodge a swing isn't much weight in my eyes.
- It is less distance, but it's on-command nature has a lot of effective weight to it. Gaining 3 meters to reach a window, versus gaining 6 meters to do nothing, seems like the superior path to me. That being said, Sprint Burst is a preventative measure, and is a lot of effective weight when used right. However, the downsides of Sprint Burst seem too great to me. You either shackle yourself to walking in order to have Sprint when you want it, or you free yourself of those shackles but won't have Sprint whenever you want. There is, of course, the medium zone where you plan things well, and wouldn't NEED Sprint during the times you don't have it. But you can't plan for everything, and this requires a HUGE skill ceiling anyway.
- This only applies to Plan B. With Plan A usage, it doesn't matter if they know.
- This is kind of a repeat point you make, but yes, again, this only applies to Plan B.
Would I say Dead Hard is overrated?
I wouldn't personally say so, however if it is technically overrated, that doesn't necessarily mean it ISN'T the best exhaustion perk, either. Something can be overrated while still being the best.
In my opinion, the only competition is Sprint Burst, with its pros and cons that I think I already described. Additionally, I'd say the only point that could bring Sprint Burst above Dead Hard is the fact that Sprint Burst could prove more useful in games against Killers with insta-downs. But you can't know that beforehand, so, I dunno. Maybe if that's what you struggle the most against, it could be your pick.
But for general use, and even against Killers with insta-downs, Dead Hard is generally more useful, because it's ALWAYS useful. And the only downside is the injured requirement, which I'd say is far less than Sprint Burst's downside of being attached to the run button.
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@Dwigtht said:
Are there any hacking experts?
The thing I cannot understand is: we have our Game, which is a client. And we have a dedicated server, which synchronizes the game state between clients and controls the match. I assume the hacker client sends corrupted data to the server, distributing the hack (invalid state) to all players. Why wouldn't the server prevent a wrong game state? Why are people flying across the map, hook themselves, use dead-hard ten times in a row while healthy, insta-heal, have infinite spritnburst... but when I hit them with the chainsaw on the pallet as Bubba, they scream, but remain healthy.
Dunno, I wonder the same thing about GTA. (And I guess all hacking.)
Shouldn't the game be able to know what's possible and not possible, and shut down all instances of impossibility? Might be hard to program, but are no companies willing to cheat-proof their games?...
Just seems lazy to me. Like nobody cares about the health of their game, only the money aspect. Like there's no passion in the gaming industry anymore. Or else, surely, we'd see companies protect their baby, right?
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@steezo_de said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2460043#Comment_2460043
He's not protecting hackers, he's saying that people make mistakes all the time in thinking they're undetectable or that their opponent is not good. They could have also just guessed correctly. I've done that many, many times.
Hackers exist in this game, sure, but for people to say it happens all the time to them is something I just don't believe without proof. I've been accused, I've seen streamers accused, I've seen video evidence that didn't show anything extraordinary. If you say you've seen one, ok, but if you say it's common and that you come across them all the time, prove it.
I said he's protecting hackers.
I didn't say he's intentionally protecting hackers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
What you experience, people using useless Dead Hards is basically what players want when they talk about removing the Distance from Dead Hard.
Even if the iframes would actually work (they dont), you would achieve nothing because the Killer would swing again.
Dead Hard only makes sense when used for distance to reach a Pallet or Window. But some players use it even when they are in Deadzones, where it is useless. So yeah, at this point, is is questionable why they use Dead Hard, because except for giving away that they have the Perk, they gain nothing.
Yes, but also, if you happen to be in a dead zone, you might as well use it and buy the team another second...
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Judging anything based on poor usage is silly. Dead Hard is very obviously the best exhaustion perk, barring facing Killers that will insta-down you. (Which, I guess could raise a fair argument, I suppose.)
Being an on-command distance maker lets you control how it's used, which I'd say only Lithe shares (however, Lithe is way too map-dependent). So yes, as mentioned, you use Dead Hard to reach an object you weren't going to otherwise reach. And that's huge.
While Sprint Burst activates whenever you run, which gets clunky and promotes more walking than you may want to do.
And Lithe, as I said, is map-dependent. For example, it's basically an empty perk slot on the Stranger Things map.
Balanced Landing is nice but also very obviously map dependent, and would probably be a better perk if it wasn't an exhaustion perk and simply always muted big fall screams and made you land better... (No speed boost on it.)
And the locker one, what can I even say?
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I also don't TYPICALLY hate being tunneled. Never really hate being camped, it's not hard to beat. And being slugged means I'm not hooked and might get up.
But what I hate is being tunneled and thus not getting any points in other categories. And so, that being said, I will YET AGAIN declare my fix for this and many other issues, and that fix is:
Survivors should share 100% of all points in all categories. Rank up together, rank down together.
Will people complain?
Yes.
Do these people matter?
No, because they're selfish.
EVERY OTHER GAME is like this. Why not also DBD?
Get chased all game? Okay, well you got points for all the gens that got done during this. And the people parked on gens got points for you running the Killer.
Because it's a team game. Wow, what a concept!
Similarly, I'd love to see hatch disappear. It only promotes selfish play among Survivors, and as a Killer, it's pretty lame to lose pipping because some guy whom didn't earn an escape GETS an escape.
However, one battle at a time...
Shared Survivor points, 100%, across the board. Readjust the BP/pipping accordingly, obviously.
Suddenly, multiple problems are completely fixed.
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@Shroompy said:
There are many ways a killer can gain information on you other than just aura reading. Some killers have really good game sense and can have a very good idea where every one is, some times they can determine where a survivor is through walls simply because a survivor hasnt reached a certain point at a certain time
You really arent facing as many hackers as you think, and youre really not as stealthy as you think
sigh.
This is why hackers can get away with it... You are basically protecting them when you say things like this.
Dismissing all claims of hacking just assuming "the claimant must be a newbie" is not good.
We LITERALLY KNOW that hackers exist in the game. Whether BP hacking, or blatant hacks in-game, we all universally know this.
So to sit there and think that there are ONLY blatant hackers... that's just insanely naive. Think about it this way. What if YOU were a hacker? Would you fly around the map and one-tap gens? Or would you... say... give yourself +4% move speed? Or would you give yourself permanent mapwide player auras, and only act on it when you think your actions are hidden/safe?
Stop being naive.
We ALREADY KNOW people DO hack. So why be a goober and say, "Yeah, people hack, just not in YOUR games, you're just a newbie."
We also ALREADY KNOW that LOTS of people WOULD hack if they COULD. And, since they can, here we are...
(Look at any game where hacking isn't punished. Big example is the one I already used, GTA Online. Every public game either already has hackers, or will within 30 minutes. Because, since they CAN, they WILL and DO.)
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@Yatol said:
i ran into only 2 hackers, 1 was subtle speed hack the other temporarily disabled their hitbox (didn't seem to be experienced with the hacking tool since they had to stand still to enable it on and off)
The standing still one could be explained by what we call "console Dead Hard". Perhaps.
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@Pepsidot said:
One of the more common cheats I see is survivors lag switching. Just had a game with one of those. Whenever they lag switch they look like they're running in a straight line, often into a wall. Then they'll TP wherever they want to go. If they get downed they're fine because they usually equip Unbreakable, No Mither and Soul Guard and can't be picked up due to the extreme lag switch.
Had a survivor do this when healing a downed survivor. Killer tried to pick her up and got bugged out in a weird carrying but not actually carrying the survivor pose the rest of the game until the survivor DCed.
Actually yes, this too. I've noticed this happening a LOT.
Never seems to happen during a mundane moment, right? Only during a critical moment... Hmm...
Especially when someone teabags you after all 5 gens, then you're about to win a chase, and of course they end up teleporting 100m away from you. Yeah, guess that's just a coincidence... What timing...
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I'm not talking about slow-entering a locker as someone is being hooked.
I am not exaggerating when I say that I slow-entered a locker as the person got downed, and then 6 full seconds later (timed it, again, this was recorded), they hooked the person. And then immediately beelined my locker. And I had no recent interaction with this Killer, and I was about 80m away, and there were multiple lockers...
I'm well aware of how bad players will call people cheaters for explainable and legitimate things. But I am aware of the game's mechanics. I have many experiences where there is no legitimate explanation.
SOMETIMES it could be bugs... Especially in DBD, eh? I had a game where Demo went actually invisible, and was just a Red Stain moving around. He even had no aura (Kindred etc), but he wasn't Undetectable cuz he had a Terror. Apparently, I was the only one who experienced this. So I assume that was just a bug.
But how often can it be a bug? How often could it be lucky spotting?
Like, when I'm behind a tall haystack waiting to rescue someone who just got hooked (so obviously in close range), and the Killer is walking towards me "randomly," but every time I walk in the opposite direction he's heading, he tracks me and changes his own direction, that's when I don't add a tally under "coincidence".
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@AnnaEliza365 said:
Yeah one time I hopped in a locker when someone got picked up. They got off, but before I got out of the locker they got downed again, so I stayed in. The Freddy hooks them, and beelines to my locker to open it and find me. When I messaged them post game they blamed their BBQ (impossible as I was in the locker), they blamed being able to hear me (impossible as the hook was 1/2 across the map, they blamed knowing someone was on a gen (no gen was in shack).
Yeah I've had this happen too, got it recorded as well. It was the map with the small temple in the middle, Someone got downed so I got in the locker preemptively (unsure of how close a hook would be). About 6 full seconds later, the hook happens. I literally stay in the locker.
Killer just makes a straight line to my locker and pops me out. And of course, he said it was cuz of BBQ.
This kind of thing is happening a LOT.
So I'm wondering if there's some new hack going around, or an old one gaining popularity. Or something.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452091#Comment_2452091
You were saying Killer was easier in the past, this is a counter statement as to why it wasn't. Infinites and large maps made playing killer much harder in the past.
Quote the entire post where I've said that. Because there are several things I've said that could be misunderstood as that, and I'm curious which post you're thinking of so that I can elaborate on what I said.
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@Sluzzy said:
No, survivor is. Try playing against unpredictable and uncounterable hitboxes, aura perks, all slowdown perks, watching your team on their belly at 5 gens. That is almost every match too. Please don't tell me killer isn't good to play. Killer needs to be much harder than what it is.
I want to state that I'm not cherry-picking your post and trying to pretend it represents your party's thoughts, but I AM going to respond to your post here.
Hitboxes aren't unpredictable, and I don't even know what an "uncounterable hitbox" even means. A hitbox is simply... the zone in which collision exists, attached to a certain entity (like a player or NPC). A hitbox isn't something to be... "countered". Unless you noclip, or something...
So, what exactly? Something like Huntress axe, the most infamously FAT hitbox collision? Huntress is "easily" countered, though. I say "easily" and quote it because it becomes a skill matchup, but the point is, it's your job to not just run in a straight line every time a Huntress has her eyes on you. You have to actually play the game, not just get downed and complain that Huntress has a ranged attack.
Juking works VERY well. And there are also varying degrees of said juking. Sometimes, you want to actually juke at a hard 90 degree angle, even. Because this gets you more distance away from your original point than if you strafed sideways while moving forward. Sometimes, after juking, you might even want to NOT juke at all. And most of all, you want to keep breaking line of sight, and you can almost always do this.
If you're talking about window vaulting, you simply need to know when a window is safe or not. Just because you got to a window before having already been hit DOES NOT MEAN you should now be able to vault it 100% every time and not be hit during or after the vault.
Vaulting is not God Mode.
And, additionally, you ALWAYSSSSS have to account for latency, in LITERALLY EVERY online video game. But for some reason, DBD has this air about it, where people forget this fact of life. Now, if they cut something REALLY close, but get hit anyway, they call it "WONKY HITBOXES" instead of, "Well, we're not on a LAN, so I simply didn't prepare well enough according to online play."
Aura perks?? You consider this a problem?? What perks, even???
Barbecue, while extremely common, and maybe the most useful one... is still VERY counterable. First of all, you have ALL the time in the world to act. A Survivor gets DOWNED, then PICKED UP, then CARRIED TO A HOOK, and then bam. Finally, the hook happens, and the aura effect is there for a mere 4 seconds. If you can't hide behind a gen, or hide in a locker, or get within 40 meters, then that's 200% on you.
Slowdown perks??? Complaining about slowdown perks just means you want the Killer to be afk so you can stroll around and play Animal Crossing but with generators. No slowdown perks are even busted. The only "annoying" one is Ruin, but once you hunt it down, the payoff is huge, as the Killer is now empty on perk slots.
I'm going to be honest. Your complaints (which I have spent too long responding to) strike me as... coming from someone who only plays solo queue Survivor, and at pretty low ranks at that. (Or high ranks, depending how you look at it. High numbers, lol.)
And that's fine. Everyone's allowed to have complaints. And not everyone can be good, or high(low?) ranked, or whatever metric you wanna use.
But that also comes with the fact that not all complaints have equal weight.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2450479#Comment_2450479
So what, taking into account the 70% kill rate at red ranks, is your balancing suggestion?
Stats, in general, in any game, are really hard to take seriously. For a plethora of reasons, for any given game.
In DBD, the difference between solo queue and SWF is the biggest reason.
That being said, my balancing suggestions are the following, without even touching the actual gameplay or balance of it:
- Put on an option to not be matched against SWF's. This option will be default off, so you are defaulted to match against SWF's. That way, the large majority of people who don't care enough to go into their options menu, or who don't know about the option or read patch notes, will still have it enabled. HOWEVER, those that don't want to fight SWF's will be able not to. (And let's be open about the reality that this game, for 5 years, has been openly NOT balanced around SWF's even existing.)
- Make a separate ranking bracket for when you're against SWF's. Whether or not this is a separate queue could go either direction, with keeping them the same queue probably being ideal.
Just two ideas, so not many, but pretty good considering they don't even touch the actual game, I'd say.
Just picking one of these would improve the gaming experience, in my opinion.
As for actual gameplay balancing, oh boy, I could really sit down and brainstorm that for days on end...
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@FrenziedRoach said:
If killer isn't fun anymore, either switch to survivor or stop playing completely. There's no shame in either choice.
I enjoy Survivor more, to a degree.
The problem is - of course - that it tends to be a solo queue experience. And I literally just ragequit a game where everyone REFUSED to let me heal them with Make It, even when the Killer was distinctly across the map. And everyone was failing gen skill checks constantly. And losing their chases in actually 3-5 seconds (largely due to always being in injured state).
These are not fun experiences, either. It really feels like the only ones allowed to have fun in DBD are the SWF's.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451206#Comment_2451206
In my opinion, Killer is pretty easy. Like, I would consider myself as an average Killer at best and I enjoy playing Survivor more, still I did not manage to get Rank 1 as Survivor last Rank Reset, but was Rank 1 as Killer pretty quickly. And I 4K most of my games and I am really not good at playing Killer.
I always think if I can manage to do well as Killer, someone who calls themselves a Killer Main should have an easier time than me.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451210#Comment_2451210
Double Pallets can spawn on rare Occasions if the Minimum number of Pallets are not reached after placing all the Tiles. So if you have a lot of T/L-Walls or Tank Tracks, Tiles which dont spawn Pallets, but have not reached the minimum amount of Pallets, the game will spawn Double Pallets.
RANKING UP on Killer is easier than on Survivor.
This does not mean that Killer is easier than Survivor.
It means that the ranking system is silly, particularly on Survivor.
However, that being said, I DO believe that Killer is technically easier than Survivor. However, that does NOT mean that Killer is STRONGER than Survivor.
Survivor has more to it. They have more tools, and more power. Additionally, they are more people. All of these factors mean that playing Survivor to their maximum potential is much harder than playing Killer to its maximum potential.
Because Killer's maximum potential is much lower than Survivor's.
When analyzing things, it's important to not make things mean any more than they mean. An equation must stop where it stops.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm sorry to hear that. Genuinely.
Have you tried learning different killers? That could help.
What are your expectations? This is a big one. Changing your expectations/criteria for victory can go a long way towards making the game enjoyable again.
I play killer/survivor 70/30. Always the Shape when I play killer. I've had plenty of matches where I got shut down and run over. Gotta take that with a grain of salt, because it's inevitable.
I recommend new killers or all new builds on your favorite killers. Hope that helps.
I've tried MOST Killers, yeah. Sadly, I tend to end up liking Killers that are more or less shackled to their M1 weaknesses. Huntress doesn't interest me, I hate playing Slinger, etc etc...
My expectation is... ... well, that's the wrong word. My expectation is to get 0k if I'm against decent players. But I consider 2k a tie. Honestly, with how the game is, I should consider 1k a tie, instead, with 2k being a win.
However, while not rank 1, I only consider the pip system for my wins or losses. Only while rank 1 do I consider the actual... game outcome to be my metric.
My hope is to get 3k in most my games (since hatch can be so hard to prevent, usually meaning you slug the 3rd person a lot, but trying to find the 4th person who could be absolutely anywhere is a pain). But some nights, it's just SWF Day, and 1k's feel lucky. And you could spend 5 years beating up on Survivors that seem to hand you hits all game, but once you face against people that DON'T do that, it really puts the gamestate under a spotlight. Like, "Oh, right, this is how the game actually is. I forgot, with all the actual potatoes running around."
As a consistent rank 1 Killer, I obviously win in the large majority of my games. But when the easy losses come in, it kind of makes you look at even your past wins, and hold less value to them, and even retroactively feel like you DIDN'T have fun with them, because beating up on target dummies isn't really that fun, honestly.
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@Aneurysm said:
If you're struggling with infinite L T loops then @Lord_Tony has some good advice on dealing with them
Moonwalking and hoping your opponent falls for it isn't good advice. Nor does it make that type of tile any better. Especially, ESPECIALLY, on a map where you can run from one LT to another LT right next to it. That means a Survivor can ALWAYS just "hold W" when they suspect you might be doing a moonwalk, and viola, a totally new LT & reset on the chase.
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451127#Comment_2451127
Infinites were removed and maps were shrunk. Those are both massive nerfs to survivors.
Saying the removal of INFINITES is a Survivor nerf is technically true, but if you don't realize how silly you look just by saying that, then I don't know if we can hold a conversation. Nerfing something that used to actually INFINITE a Killer, into no longer being able to do that, doesn't even REMOTELY imply that this thing is now "fair".
Imagine this in the context of anything else.
"Ryu can no longer shoot unblockable Hadokens that do 100% of your life bar and cover up the whole screen."
Are you left thinking, "Wow, he must be fair now," or are you left thinking, "Uhhhh okay... Why was that ever a thing... Okay, so, what does it CURRENTLY do?"
@TricksOTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/275346/killer-just-isnt-good-to-play
If you’re having trouble with T&Ls maybe the problem isn’t the game…but of course the easiest option is to blame it on everything but yourself. Surely you're playing at the highest level and still the game conspires against you to make you lose chases. Funny that at no point in your post you mention anything you could improve in your play style. Did you learn everything there is about playing killer?
I’m sorry if it’s not what you wanna hear, but maybe, just maybe, you need to git gud my dude.
But no instead of getting better you want the devs to “fix” the game by making it as easy as possible for you to get your 4ks. Would that give you the “fun” you’re lacking?
The definition of entitlement right here folks. Post one of your games and let's see these "unwinnable" maps you get sent to. I'd love to be proven wrong here.
Yes, I consider LT's maybe the best looping tile in the game. If you disagree, and if the general populace disagrees, that doesn't change my opinion. I have this belief as one who plays both sides.
Why would I show you my gameplay? It would become a source of confirmation bias. Every little thing I do wrong would confirm your belief that I'm "just bad". And you'd count my mistakes, however never count the Survivor mistakes. It would be a totally useless disaster.
LT's are not only strong, but obviously strong. Most people who claim they're not even that good end up saying something like, "They become a 50/50 with mind games." And in what world is a 50/50 not innately strong in a 4v1 game where dedicating to a chase can mean 3 gens pop, and each Survivor has to be hooked 3 times in order to die?
And that's assuming they're 50/50's, which I wouldn't say they are. And, again, ESPECIALLY on maps where LT's are connected to other LT's. Those are actual infinites, barring special things like Nurse or... ... honestly, Bamboozle doesn't even counter a double LT...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Killer is the easiest it has ever been and STILL people struggle with playing Killer.
It is impossible to make it that easy that every Killer can have easy games... The game is also not that imbalanced as people claim it to be. On the very highest Level, it is imbalanced, but 99,99% of the players are not at this level (including those who complain about it..).
This type of argument is very frequently used in every discussion in every game, because it is generally a very bland and "filler" kind of point to try to make.
First - if there's a problem at the highest level, then that still means the effects bleed out into all levels. We aren't playing a different game. Additionally, the difference between the top 1% of players and the top 2% of players is so minimal, YOU yourself wouldn't even be able to identify the tiny differences. That being said, you don't really understand what you're saying when you make the "point" you're trying to make. Skillful players account for a deeper percentage than the 1% you seem to think. And frankly, the only place where Killers are having "easy games" is against newbies who don't even know what loud noise notifications are.
Killers are OP when everyone's on day 1.
But to suggest that they're up to par after that point? Well, that's just silly.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2450458#Comment_2450458
Game is not gonna die in 1-2 years.
And it's not always "4 human coordinated comms" because you lost.
Well this is why I made a point to say, quite simply, playing versus good Survivors is problem enough. No, they don't even NEED to be a coordinated SWF or whatnot.
They can just be 4 individually skilled solo queue Survivors, and they will trounce you.
If you took 4 random Survivors from the top... I dunno, top 1,000 Survivors in the game, and faced them against the top 100 Killers, I'd put my money on the Survivors every time. I wouldn't win every bet, but I'd certainly make major bank overall.
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Thanks for the answers!
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The fact that that's all you have to say really says a lot about your intentions with this conversation.
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Okay, well, since you got your Survivor Squad with you, I guess I'll repeat myself.
For a Killer to tunnel you, they have to embark on 3 separate chase sequences with you.
If you are unable to shake a Killer with 3 chances, then you're not a good Survivor. Stop blaming buzz words like "tunneling". You had 3 tries to shake the Killer, and you couldn't. Start getting better at learning your surroundings, when to start walking, maybe take Iron Will if it helps you out. But do something that isn't... what everyone else seems to do, which is just calling everything some dismissive buzz word.
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Well, I know I need to get better at chases in general, as I'm only decent at shack and LT's... (Probably the two strongest Survivor formations.)
But that's not really my point here. There are 4 Survivors, and only 1 Killer. The reality is that the Killer is overworked from the start. And there are more than enough resources for Survivors to get their job done before they're ever threatened.
Point being, the pip system basically forces you to play as a suboptimal team, simply so that people can "get their pip points". Similar to how you can get a 4k too quickly as Killer and barely get a +0 pip.
Except, the reason it's more potent of a problem as Survivor is... because, as stated, it's a true 4v1 game. The 4 have the power and the advantage. So, typically, if you want all of your gen points, altruism points, and chase points... you're going to have to artificially force these situations. Stop doing that gen on the opposite side of the map as the Killer, and come run into his face and engage in a chase! Running We'll Make It? Well, don't get the rescue, because you've already capped on those points. Let your teammate on the opposite side of the map get those points.
It's just a mess. And the fact that Survivor is the stronger faction actually is what makes the problem exist. Gens get blown out oft he water so quickly, chase times are so long, the game is over before you know it, and sometimes nobody's even been hooked. Now what??? Escape and take your +0??? Or artificially extend the game just to farm points???
It's not good.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2440989#Comment_2440989
If you're being tunneled you dont have time to do a gen and saves.
Ok now read 100% of my post instead of 3%.
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Point-wise, being "tunneled" is great...
Once you become decent at the game, all it takes is losing them one of the 3 chase sequences they have on you, and you can basically guarantee a +1 pip because your chase score will be maxed. Do one single gen, maybe open the gate, and escape... or get a rescue, a heal, and die... Should be a +1 pip.
If you're being tunneled omega, and you're losing all those chases too fast to get maxed points, AND can't seem to lose the Killer ever during any of those chases... Then it's either time to say, "Maybe I'm not a good Survivor," or say, "Hey, guys, can you start running BT please???"
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On the topic, as someone who's become more of a "current Survivor main" due to hating Killer... (about 500 Killer hours, and about 20 Survivor hours, rank 1 on both)...
- Getting rank 1 on Killer seems much easier than on Survivor. The Survivor pipping criteria is totally bonkers, and feels like I have to do every gen and hog every rescue & heal in order to single pip.
- However, WINNING on Survivor is infinitely easier than on Killer, if we say 2k is the tie threshold. It really feels like there should NEVER be more than 1 person dying, and that's USUALLY because of a NOED that can't really be addressed. I'd also say, most games that DO end in more than a 1k are almost ALWAYS because of 1 person being hooked post-gens, and everyone else not willing to let them die, HOWEVER also misplaying the rescue attempt and giving the Killer a snowball show.
All in all, this game is................. not in a good place...
And I seem to be the only one who cares.
(Not to be confused with "the only one that thinks so". I'm certain that the people that defend this game also KNOW it's in a bad place, but they WANT it to be in exactly the bad place that it's in.)
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I'm aware of how miserable Killer is, too, as it's my most played role. Seems the only ones allowed to have fun in DBD are SWF's.
I'm literally just raging every game as solo Survivor. People not even testing for Ruin, people trying to truck through gens through Ruin with an aware Killer that keeps pushing people off of gens...
Like, these guys probably did about 15 gens worth of progression... and had 1 gen to show for it. BUT, they got ALL those gen points for doing that. Meanwhile, I'm the only one running around like an idiot, looking for a Hex Totem, with a Killer that sees I'm the only one doing this and so I'm the only one he dedicates chases on for downs.
And so, we have these situations where the RIGHT plays aren't the RANKING UP plays. And I mean, we already had this anyway, but it feels worse now. These people will move UP, while I will move DOWN, because the game says, "Wow, this guy's skill is really low. He gets no points compared to his teammates, and he keeps dying every game."
It's just infuriating. Making me have less and less desire to play.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239321#Comment_2239321
They’re saying the killer remains outside of the 24m range to get tokens, but close enough to immediately return to the hook when a save happens. It’s a vile strategy.
But 24m is huge lol. You can certainly get to the nearest pallet/window/etc.
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@VESSEL said:
He was one of the best players out there and probs was the best player in Australia. Anyone know why he went to League?
Did he play Killer?
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Alright, well, oh well I guess.
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Well, the fact that I can't even say something like, "I didn't think I was gonna kill you."
Or...
"I thought about killing you, but I saw something else instead."
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239308#Comment_2239308
You're right, it's not a discussion because neither of those things is holding the game hostage. Just because it's annoying and/or delays the end of the trial by a small amount doesn't mean it's holding the game hostage.
I could probably just say whatever and agree to this. But I do certainly think that you have way too strict of a definition of what holding a game hostage is.
Hostage situations aren't eternal. Your definition that it must be indefinite is kind of disingenuous. If you see what I'm saying.
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The problem is the people that have the mentality, "If I had to do it, so should everyone else!"
Literally gatekeeping the entire game.
This grind is nutso, and I indeed want to quit over it. (Not to mention the insane stacked game balance towards Survivor.)
It's REALLY hard to find the redeeming quality of DBD. I literally only keep playing because I hope that the game becomes fun 50 million BP later. LMAO...
Because right now... it is not fun.
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@Orion said:
Why not improve the filters if they don't work perfectly?
Emphasis on "perfectly", because the filters do work, just not perfectly, like literally everything else ever made.
What even is this post???
Did you just fanboy so hard that you defended the DBD filters???????
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Honestly? Ever since the nerf, I have never taken off DS. I hate hard-tunnelers with a burning passion.
Stop getting caught. Every hit a Survivor takes is user error.
Are you using an exhaustion perk? If so, are you using it properly?
(Example: Sprint Burst is a great perk. However, sitting on a gen until the Killer is in arm's reach, or walking in a circle until the Killer is right on you, and then breaking into a sprint... These are not good uses of Sprint Burst. And yet, I see it probably EVERY game.)
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@CluelessWanderer said:
Detective's Hunch because I despise Devour Hope. The past few weeks, it's like every second Killer runs it, and just proxy camps/tunnels until it pops. Especially Wraiths and Tricksters.
Uh...
Devour Hope only gets tokens if the Killer is far away from the rescue.
... Do Survivors consider that STILL too close to the hook??? LMAO...
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I'd call it more.
Slugging is a strategy that you literally HAVE to use if you expect Decisive Strike. And it's a strategy that you SHOULD use if you downed a Surv, and then there's another great opportunity for you that you'll miss out on if you grab the downed Surv.
However, idling at the opened exit gates as the entire Survivor roster, fully healed and nothing to accomplish remaining in the game, but still standing there for the entire duration of the end game timer just because you want to BM the Killer...
That is objectively way more "holding the game hostage" than strategically slugging. Because idling at the exit gates has literally zero in-game functionality to it. Zero strategical purpose. It is literally intended to drag the game out. The game which has already ended.
This isn't even a discussion.
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The sound of my grabbed Survivor leaving the game.
This actually makes you depip as Killer, LOL????????
BHVR wants to reward Survivor ragequits, I guess. What can y'do!
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Like I said, it becomes a skill matchup. As someone who's not played Survivor for about 4 years and is therefore not versed in the exhaustion perks, the rescue perks, the safety net perks, etc etc (back when all we had was the original 4 Survs)... I always LOVED going against a Nurse, because it was all about the mindgame on both sides. It felt safer for me, because I could just be a smart human being and outplay them. I didn't need hundreds of hours of practice and map knowledge.
You counterplay Nurse & Spirit by predicting how they will play, and how they will try to trick you.
You can't just... hold Shift W Spacebar and win. You have to be a smart player. The smarter player wins when it's Nurse/Spirit versus Survivors.
And I think that's how it SHOULD be.
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Let me also add...
There's a distinct abandonment of the HIDE dynamic. Survivors literally jump out into the open to MAKE SURE you see them, so that they can engage in a chase since it's become SO HEAVILY in their favor these days. They don't even TRY to hide from an incoming Killer. And that's because if a Killer decides to chase, then the other 3 Survs will annihilate the gens before the chased Surv is ever in any real danger.
How many times do people sit on a generator, even with a Killer coming DIRECTLY at them in plain sight, and then only at the VERY LAST MOMENT does that Survivor get off the gen, and initiate Sprint Burst and get to the nearest infinite loop?
This is BAD PLAY by the Survivor. But it's so weighted in their favor, they can not only get away with it, but it's SUPER COMMON.
They do that, instead of preemptively hiding from the Killer, and trying to avoid confrontation.
So, my point in saying all this, is...
Perhaps if it's Nurse or Spirit, maybe PLAY like it's Nurse or Spirit, instead of playing like it's a normie Killer that you can abuse with infinites & whatnot.
Maybe try hiding for once, like Survs used to do 4 years ago.
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@Duplo said:
We currently only really have Dragon's Grip as Killers to prevent gen camping, and it's on a long cooldown with only a 30 second duration after kicking the gen.
I'd like to propose two perks for future Killers that can be added to dissuade gen camping from Survivors.
A Perk similar to Cheryl's Repressed Alliance: After the survivor is chased from the gen, that gen will be blocked by the Entity for XX seconds after the Killer's Terror Radius leaves the Generator (or just a standard 32 meters); it will then go on Cooldown.
A Perk to shortly show the Aura of a survivor who was chased from a generator if they return to that same generator for XX seconds within 30 seconds of ending a chase with the Killer. Nothing long, just a short "I'm All Ears" type duration, and an audio queue. It will then go on a short Cooldown. As an alternative, it could also behave like Discordance, where rather than showing the Survivor's Aura, it would have the Generator light up and give a single Audio queue.
I feel that these would be healthy game changers to DBD, and promote moving about the map rather than a campier play style.
(In before Survivors disagree vehemently. 😅 )
HONESTLY, I find that first perk kinda brilliant. No joke.
Right now, Killers can't even commit to a chase, because chase time is WAYYYYYY too long even on the most neutral map. You start chasing one person long enough to actually down them, and the gen you left will just be finished by somebody else.
So why not have a perk that LETS YOU CHASE SURVIVORS by locking out the generator you just chased them off of???
It's actually a brilliantly effective AND healthy perk.
I support this.
Not that it matters, because Killers aren't supported by BHVR, but hey.
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@DwightyTighties190 said:
So you want perks that lock survivors out of their primary objective? The one real thing that matters?
Why not, Dwight Main One Ninety?
Survivors have perks that lock Killers out of THEIR objective.
Oh - it can't go both ways?
Hmm... Interesting...