Sweet_Potato
Sweet_Potato
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@RenRen said:
Using streamers as a way to gauge skill for killers is kinda bad considering that most streamers usually don't run full meta such as otz. And when they do they don't get an easy 4k or 3k they usually have to heavily sweat.
It's just not true. They win most of the matches without much effort. Just watch their streams and tell me how many matches they lose out of 100.
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@Malkhrim said:
Big streamers don't represent most of the player base at all and are not a good example for game balance. We are talking about people with thousands of hours more than even the most dedicated players who aren't streamers, but who most of the time will be facing the majority, the average players who have far less experience than them. EVEN THEN, they would still occasionally meet many survivors they just couldn't beat even while playing to the best of their ability, and Otz has multiple long videos that show many of those matches.
Also, there are streamers who do insanely high escape streaks while playing solo. The same way you are talking about killer streamers, one could argue that shows solo survivor was perfectly fine and not at all as hard as many people on the community were already saying.
@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101003#Comment_3101003
Based on what source you say so many forum users have experience compared to streamers? Even if you nitpick the ones with the highest number of hours, still won't match. Also, you shouldn't argue about balance based lousely on a claim about "every second user'" you can't even prove.
But if you want an example, there you go: I know I play far more than average myself and, with that, I recently reached more than 3000 hours.
Do you know when Tru3ta1ent reached 3000 hours? If I remember correctly, around early 2018. And I started playing only about one year after him. With all of that, while far above average, he isn't even close to the most skilled big streamer.
Now imagine comparing that to most of the player base, who plays far less than I do, specially the ones starting now, who didn't have 5 freaking years to learn to play this game.
Streamers are not comparable to the rest of the player base. At all.
The actual world record on solo survivor escape streak is 34 so far (Kller, a german streamer, without using keys). Not very impressive compared to many killers with 4 k streaks of several hundreds matches.
I never denied top streamers wouldn't lose at all. Their losses are just completely neglectible, sinse they win most of the time and collect their losses for uploads over weeks and months.
There is also such thing as skill ceiling. Skill gains are huge when you just start playing a game. A player with 1000 hours is way Wayyyyyy more better than a player with just 100 hours in DBD. But is a player with 2000 hours way more better than with 1000 hours on average? Slightly, yes. But the difference is not that great anymore. ZubatLEL was an amazing player with 3000 hours and he is still is with 7000.
Therefore it's not wrong to compare players with 10,000 hours with players with "just" 3000 hours. There are many experienced killers (or dbd players in general) out there who perform similar to popular streamers.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101029#Comment_3101029
This argument is terrible and let me explain.
Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is balanced or shouldn't be fixed. Look at nurse for example, in the hands of an "average 90% of killers" she is terrible, the data that BHVR shows in fact last time they released it showed her as like the lowest kill rate killer. But in the hands of someone very good, she dominates.
Is she balanced?
Let's take an exaggerated example:
Imagine for a second there was a killer offering that did the following:
- The killer moves at 300% movement speed
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- All survivors can be immediately mori'd upon being downed.
I think we would all agree that this offering would be overpowered. Now let's say we "nerf" it by making it so it only appears in the bloodweb with a 1% chance. this means you would statistically see this offering once every 100 games. Now it's balanced. right?
Now, i agree that most matches against "normal" survivors aren't great. But that is terrible for those survivors, and therein lies the problem. Don't you think the game would be much better if a "normal" game with "normal" survivors was a little better for the survivors? Don't you think the game would be better if solo queue wasn't a giant crap shoot? We need to close the gap between SWF and solo queue, and then buff killers to compensate. This game should be fun and fair for both sides regardless of the situation.
Your numbers are quiete exaggerated. There are no 90% of trash nurses out there. In fact everyone can become a decent nurse if you just spend some dozens hours of playing her. But of course, if you play your first 10 matches with her you might think she is quite weak...
Balancing around top tier full team SWF on comms is nonsense if you destroy the game for 90% of other players.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3100838#Comment_3100838
Content creators play a lot more often than regular people, and are thus more likely to win a lot of matches. But Otzdarva, Tru3, and OhTofu have plenty of matches where they have really hard matches or outright lose.
Otz and Tofu even upload matches to YouTube where they fail terribly (Tru3 does as well, though most of his YouTube content is VODs from his stream) so its not true to say that they never have difficult matches.
Yea, they uploaded like 1 out of 100 matches. At the same time Otz has winstreaks of 40-60 wins in a row on each killer...
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@Reinami said:
Because the majority of the matches they play are against what we like to call "normal" survivors. The problem is at the absolute highest level of play, this game heavily favors the survivors. Watch just about any tournament and you'll see that every killer who isn't nurse or spirit basically runs end game perks like NOED and face camps the first person they hook. There is a reason for that.
Try watching the matches that tru3ta1ent played against team oracle a while back. Even someone like true who has thousands upon thousands of hours gets completely destroyed by a good survivor team.
It's not the point, that on highest level of competition game was survivor sided.
We are talking about the usual 90% of the matches. Most killer mains talk about the sweaty 4 man SWFs like they face them everytime they play while in fact you only see them once every 10 matches.
Decent killer were always able to 4 k in their most matches at least for the last 4 years.
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Just watch a normal Gameplay of Otz. You have to wait hours to see him actually lose a game. His Video where he collects his loses is a compilation of several weeks of playing.
I have to disagree to the argument that those people are extremely experienced.
Like c'mmon, every second user on this board has several thousands hours in this game and plays it for his/her lifetime.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
If the killer isn't Otzdarva, why aren't you Ayrun or JRM? Why the skill issue for survivors?
Otzdarva, Hexy, Umbra, Dowsey, TrueTalent, ScottJund, ZubatLEL, OhTofu and many others didnt have any problems to win most of their games unless they used obvious meme builds.
Also is JRM dying in most of his matches.
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I haven't lost a single game as Nurse on this map.
And I am a survivor main, Nurse isn't even my most played killer.
It's not just Midwitch. Same on Wrecker's yard with range addons. You can literally blink to the edge of the map with 2 blinks and survivors have nowhere to hide.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I've yet to go AFK and still get a win, so your term "free win" isn't all that accurate
Just play Pig and block a box. With certain addons you will guaranteed 1-2k every single match.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083386#Comment_3083386
Thats not true. If you get Pinhead to prestige 1 you unlock level 1 of all his perks on all characters then you can still level up the bloodweb to level it up on whoever you want.
I dont care about tier 1 perks. If you want Tier 3 you need to prestige him 3 times. Its about 5 millions blood points compared to just around 1,5 if I would want to unlock those perks just on one of my favourite killers.
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Yes, lets nerf survivors even more. 20% escape rate in solo q is way too high and needs to be adjusted to about 5%.
Killers can deal alot of damage with multiple hits within a short amount of time. It's just unfair if survivors actually also have a way to replenish their resources by setting up healing boons.
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Thats true if you consider only few killers you want to play.
For example I want to unlock deadlock from Pinhead on Bubba.
In the past I just need to bring Pinhead to level 40 and then spend a few bloodwebs on Bubba to get those new teachables.
Now I have to make Pinhead P3 to get the same.
Luckily most of my killers were prestiged so their perks are automatically shared among all killers now.
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I even faced multiple nurses and blights with 4 slowdown perks today.
Also there is much more tunneling and camping now, because BHVR made it easier. I got one person down within the first 20 seconds of the match as Bubba. = easy win just by being afk infront of hook.
Since I've done all the rift challenges it's enough dbd for me now.
Solo Q sucks. Playing killer is personally for me boring. And SWF doesnt make as much fun either as it did before, because you sit on one gen for two minutes.
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PS: I'm not joking.
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They also took away her orange bikini. Now all girls in dbd wear grandma underwear again.
More and more reasons to stop playing the game.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069451#Comment_3069451
10 hours, good teams. Sure. If by good teams. You mean Babu teams. Then yes. You got good teams
Well I can't do nothing if 90% of the team you get are babies. The only time when you lose as a good nurse is when survivors get a decent map, separate on gens perfectly and bring strong items.
In most cases you just demolish them.
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But yea.... first 1-10 games were really hard.... Thats an why this broken killer needs to stay in the game
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Nurse took me like 10 hours of gameplay to get good with her.
After that I was able to win against good teams on old haddonfield.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066433#Comment_3066433
"we are the top percentage of the player base and are supposed to win by game design due to huge experience, avoiding mistakes and almost perfect coordination."
I'm sorry but even for the forums this is a new level of entitlement and self-aggrandising nonsense. In any case I doubt 10 seconds extra gen time will do anything to discourage a god gamer like yourself.
As I said, I will completely stop playing solo Q.
Out of my 4000 hours in this game I played roughly 2000 solo Q, 1500 SWF and 500 killer. The difference is insane. In a full SWF squad with tryhard attitude we achieve a 4 man escape in 8 out of 10 matches and the killer gets a 4 k maybe once every 20 matches. In solo Q I have a 4 man escape rate maybe in 2 out of 10 matches and on the other hand killer gets a 4 k every second match or even more often cuz there are just too many noob survivors making mistakes and throwing the game from the very beginning of a match.
The new patch is gonna screw up solo q completely. I'm not playing this game to sit on a single gen for 2 minutes but for survivor-killer interaction. BHVR is trying to carry baby killers by making chases against good survivors short and therefore giving them boosted blood lust mechanics, free stbfl stacks, removing dead hard, less sprintboost for hits, longer gen times and so on. But in fact it' degrades it's own game to brainless "hold W into the comp corner plays" where, surprise surprise, experienced SWFs are still more efficient at than average solo Q players.
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@Deme said:
i can really taste the tears in some of these comments
You still won't have a realistic chance against strong 4 man swfs who will teabag you and use flashy macros.
They/we are the top percentage of the player base and are supposed to win by game design due to huge experience, avoiding mistakes and almost perfect coordination.
But at least you can bully 90% of the clueless survivors who don't know how to play the game, run into killer, go down in 10 seconds and are insanely inefficient on everything they do.
That should be a good compensation for all the tears you cry when you actually face a decent team and not a bunch of victims.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065219#Comment_3065219
How exactly are generators slow with lots of camping? Are the survivors afk? Are they hiding? If a killer camps there is zero pressure on the survivors to stop them from finishing generators.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065229#Comment_3065229
If you watch Otz you will often see him 4k vs bad survivors and explain that he only won because he has ~9k hours of experience. This video shows exactly the same. Three of the survivors could have just left the game "marth style" (see the marth experiment if you don't follow that reference) and it would have been a 1k game. Even one of the survivors in the end game chat said the other survivors fed themselves to the killer.
Ez.
Yes. While being hooked I've seen survivors hiding in bushes, looting chests, cleansing dull totems or just running around the hook but not going for the save so the killer actually kept all 4 survivors busy by doing nothing.
Not to mention killer perks that allow keeping gens slow and camp at the same time.
For example deadlock. Whenever survivor finish one gen, the gen with most progress gets blocked for 30 seconds. Slowdown with 0 effort.
For example Pain Res + DMS. If you camp a person on a scourged hook and a survivor comes for a 1 for 1 then he gives you another Pain Res + DMS on the same scourged hook.
For example corrupt. If you down a survivor within the first 2 minutes, which happens pretty often, you can comfortably camp them within a 3gen without have to worry about the corrupted gens.
For example ruin. If you camp someone with ruin up all entire team might show up and trying to save. That means no gens are being done and the gens which had some progress are losing it.
I dont know why I have to explain such obvious things. Camping is always very efficient way to win games unless survivors are on comms.
Even swfs without comms struggle against this pretty often.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065205#Comment_3065205
Consider two different game flow paths:
1) There are lots of chases and the generators are slow.
2) The generators are fast and there is lots of camping.
Which path sounds more fun as a survivor?
The most commong game path is rather
3) The generators are slow and there is lots of camping
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@jesterkind said:
I'm still surprised more than one or two people think this patch is going to make survivor unplayable. While reading all of it the only thought I had about survivor was "damn i'm gonna play some more after this patch hits", since I won't have to rely on teammates as much for a few key things and the perk buffs (mostly) look quite nice.
I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why survivor players, especially solo queue players, should even be unhappy about this patch at all, let alone this mad.
In solo Q noone cares about other people's gens. And since this patch buffed many regression mechanics, solo Q is gonna be even more pain as it is rn.
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I think I will play a lot less dbd.
I dont feel any desire to sit on one generator with thana and eruption for 2 minutes or more. With camping strategies which mathematically aren't winnable for survivors anymore, removed dead hard and free tunneling during endgame.
So I will completely stop playing solo Q and only play with my friends who all have several thousands hours in the game and where we still have a decent chance to win.
The Q times for survivors are almost instant rn anyway. The only time I have to wait 1 or 2 minutes is during the evening. All other time I get a lobby in seconds. So I guess killers will have to wait a lot until they get the next batch of clueless solo q noobies which they can demolish.
I can understand the general buff for all m1 killers. But at the same time BHVR also buffs the most annoying killers like Nurse and Spirit as well and this is just bullshit. A 3 second DS for Nurse, Spirit and Blight? Ridiculous..
I have a pile of shame of 100 other games. Maybe it's time to play something else...©
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you mean data, which is not mmr adjusted, not adjusted for maps, taking into account farming matches and so on?
If you have several thousands hours in this game you should have collected enough data to make valid conclusions.
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I cant blame any teammate who dces against a nurse. And in solo q I meet a lot of them. Without dh you are pretty helpless against a decent nurse. And with decent I'm not even meaning a very good nurse, just an average.
And pls don't tell me anything about learning how to counterplay a nurse. I have 4000 hours in this game and played nurse enough to know how broken she is.
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No. This stream isnt even 24 hours old. Its the new Nurse.
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Most my games start with a random survivor goind down within the first 20 seconds of the match.
Then there is ruin, pain resonance, dead mans switch... And the snowball begins.
So most of my matches last 10-15 minutes. I cant see any gen rush there.
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What a weird hypothesis.
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Oh no. It takes no skill to play wraith and to achieve good results on him. Buffing him again would make too many unexperienced killers achieve 4 K which are not deserved.
Better give a "slight" buff to billy.
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@Hermit said:
Maybe the amount of blight complaints will go back to normal now.
Also, every killer can slug for the 4k, this isn't a nurse specific feature...
Yea. In addition to the blight lets just bring the old blight to the game too.
In fact I stopped playing during the last couple of days cuz (no joke) 90% of my matches were against nurse, blight and spirit.
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I guess behaviour doesnt want this game to make fun anymore since interactions with killers and other survivors are not rewarding at all.
Since BHVR keeps bringing out oppressive low mobility killers best way is to spread out and sit on gens.
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I agree. Flashlights are most useless items in the game just making people fail at stupid plays instead of doing gens.
Medkits and toolboxes are the real power.
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Killers need more powerful slow down perks to prevent gen rush.
45 seconds of Dead Man's Switch are way too weak.
Also Scourged Hook: Pain Resonance should work with all hooks. 4 hooks on the map are just not enough to reliably work 100% of time if you consider such huge maps like RPD.
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Making a killer who is entirely build around slugging and camping is the problem.
Even if you play against them with boon, these matches take forever and are just BORING.
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I agree to the topic starter.
Game should be balanced around 75% kill rate for killers. With some variation within the tier list of course (lets say 60-90% depending on killer)
50% as desired by the devs is just not fun to play and doesn't feel rewarding.
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I would rather prefer Pop as basekit.
Kicking gens right now is useless.
Killers should be rewarded for kicking gens.
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Considering the ammount of cheaters right now old unbalanced game was definetely better.
I can see several cheaters a day now.
In entire year 2019 I ve seen like 1 or 2.
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Ruin is still overused.
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I love to play against Spirit, Nurse, Blight, Pee Head, Twins, Hag and Cenobit.
It's always fun to play against killers with anti loop abilities and to get tunneled, camped and slugged the entire match.
I hate to play against Bubba because he can facecamp and all the boring M1 killers with interactive gameplay on loops. They suck! Noone wishes to have interavtive gameplay!
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@Laluzi said:
I was waffling on whether this was bait or not, but the "I can only 4k 90% of the time" was what really sold it for me. I'll spare you the 4-paragraph lecture and just say bait.
What do you mean? With ruin undying one year ago (before the nerf) I was able to achieve a 90% kill rate even with Bubba.
But Blight is considered S tier. He should be stronger.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
you often use alchemist's ring and you want a buff to blight.. aite chief this aint it.
Even with barbecue I can only get around 60-80k blood points per match. So I can use alchemist's ring only every second match or so.
I think Blight's common add-ons should also be strong enough to counter swf teams with ranger medkits and BNPs.
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@PanicSquid said:
No new kill rate information has been released since the anniversary event, to my knowledge.
Personal experiences don't have enough data points to make any reasonable conclusions about the overall state of the game.
And the kill rate was 68% at that time.
Which is pretty unbiased.
I dont feel like it changed much.
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@BrokenSouI said:
So.....You're basing this off...One potatoe survivor...? Ok then
Try to not be a potato against a skilled S tier killer who chases you down within 10 seconds like nurse, spirit or dpi blights.
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@Maperson said:
As a killer you simply don't have time for all that, even when you destroy it they will bring it back unlike hexes, if killers want to be somewhat competitive they have to tunnel and camp against good survivors.
Most killers do that anyway regardless or being competitive or not.
So this argument is pointless. Or even more: It reveals camping and tunneling as most effective killer strategies and killers who dont do that are actually playing not efficiently.
Therefore in order to be fair and balanced all survivor abilities should be considered and evaluated whether they are able to counter camping and tunneling.
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@DeadByLegion said:
COH is strong and leads to very boring, drawn out games that feel unfair. I've had several games vs strong teams where I was protecting the last 3 gen, they had 4 COH totems spread out on a big map, and they would just sprint burst away to the corner and self-heal, then come back. I could never commit to a chase across the entire map because the other 3 would just jump on the last gen together. Long, boring games with infinite heals.
Sounds great. Now survivor actually got something like the boring twins gameplay.
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As a survivor main I dont struggle to 4 k with my main killers (Bubba, Spirit, Nurse, Doctor) most of the time. Thanks tryhard builds.
But even if I have to do a challenge with lower rated killers I am usually able to get at least 2 k even if I am not very used to play them.
In my opionion it was never easier to play killer than since the blight release whre combination of nerfed maps and introduction of ruin-undying came both in clutch, Ds nerf came a few months later.. Even with some smaller nerfs (one time use of undying, pallet city gideon and now the boon perks) the game is WAAAAAAAY more easier to play as killer compared to 2019 or 2018.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2605716#Comment_2605716
Selective memory. I suppose you think the removal of infinites and the introduction of entity blocker were "survivor nerfs", not necessary game health changes?
Selective memory. I'm not talking about things which were years ago like infinites (removed in may 2020) or the introduction of entity blockers (2017?)
I suppose you forgot about the consistent recent survivor nerfs like removed window in Myer's house in Haddonfield or removed car pallet on badham. Also reduced distance between window and fence in Badham so you can get hit there now everytime trying to vault this window. These changes werent even mentioned in any patchnotes.
Huge dead zones and stupid RCPD where you can't get from one side of the map to another without crossing the central room with two narrow ways 20 feet away from each other are also in this game for a long time.
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Boon perks and anti totem survivor builds are only a problem for people who got used to play and get carried by ruin-undying most of the time. Which are a lot since the blight release last autumn.
Other killers who prefered builds with corrupt-pop and who are able to end their chases quickly dont have this issue that much.