SunaIIanu
SunaIIanu
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753965#Comment_3753965
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754285#Comment_3754285
I've checked several threads from 2016-2018, and most people agreed that tunnelling was exclusively chasing one person (ignoring everyone else), usually until they died. Tunnel vision was mentioned several times. If you want to disprove me, show me threads from 2016-2018 where this wasn't the majority definition.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/514OMWCLBMQA/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ST0EIOUW2OB8/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T80G5ORHZ2UC/image.png
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/144512526676470299/
https://new.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/8ebbkm/what_is_tunneling/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/209374-dead-by-daylight/76187687
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1485482132154427735/
I don't have the time currently to search through old posts, but you are going to find comments of people who say they have been accused of tunneling even though they don't think they tunneled, so these discussions aren't new.
Also:
(I don't have Twitter, i guess the original discussion is about ds.)
You brought up urban dictionary, but dbd is not only played by english speakers. Also, not every player interacts with forums at all, so who knows what their opinion might be.
The definition you mentioned is the most popular one for sure, but it's not the only one. Again, I've used my definition since 2017 and the people I play with generally use the same. I don't remember though if I got the definition from them or from a Youtuber (again, If I had the time I'd look through some old videos of the YouTubers I used to watch, but I don't currently).
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753897#Comment_3753897
It needs to be 9 hook actions, not just 9 hook states. Just for clarification
I know, I meant hook actions, but you're right, the word "hook" alone isn't quote clear.
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I wouldn't be surprised if tunneling is more common in low mmr, tracking an injured survivor is a lot easier than tracking a healthy surv. Also newer players might not have interacted with the community enough to know that those strategies are unpopular. I'm pretty sure that camping and facecamping was more common in low mmr aswell, for similar reasons. I would guess that I'm average mmr and face camping was rare in my experience, but the Devs still felt that the anti face camp mechanic was necessary (I don't mind it, it just has no impact in most of my matches).
Others have already said it, but tunneling has no dictionary entry, it will always be subjective (just like genrushing, if you look at the recent post about it). And as someone who has been playing since late 2017, no the definition was never unanimous, people argued about it back than aswell.
Personally, I define tunneling as intentionally chasing (and hooking if possible) someone right after they have been unhooked. So I would also call it tunneling if a Killer stops "tunneling" after the second hook, but in my experience that isn't a common experience. More common is leaving a survivor after the first hook but tunneling after the second, because by then gens have popped and the Killer wants to get a kill. And that is understandable, but can still be frustrating If you're the survivor in that situation.
I find it curious that you like to tunnel but try to convince people that tunneling isn't a problem. Scared your winning strategy could be nerfed?
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As far as I understand, If you only kill three people you need to have hooked everybody once and have 9 Hooks collectively, if you kill all 4 survivors (Not with a bleedout!) it should be enough to get a gold emblem.
Iridescent would be all 4 dead, every survivor hooked once and 9 hooks in total.
So survivors can deny you the iridescent emblem with not unhooking, but not the gold one.
I used the wiki, it's not official, but usually pretty accurate:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Emblems
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I tried it and got like 5 Games in a row without any aura reading perks, so I gave up after that.
Also, I don't like the random aura reading, I know why it's part of the perk, but it seems to screw me more than it helps.
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@The4thMagi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747886#Comment_3747886
That's true, it can't be broken, maybe something as simple as my previous comment "maybe hp% remaining based, so you just aren't forced to alt tab and afk.". Something like idk half the bar is gone? or something similar, you can forfeit and play your next match. Especially knowing solo q, if I am the last of 2 left and I'm downed, 99% of the time killer leaves me and goes to look for last one. And majority of the time, they are crouched/hiding in a locker, or edge map. I don't want to just have to afk, we all know those types aren't coming to pick u up lol.
Technically they are doing the right think though. If there is more than one gen left it is really unlikely to finish it with two people and usually the Killer stays near the slug, so trying to pick them up is usually a suicide mission. If I'm playing solo I'll still try to get them up, but in swf I encourage my teammates to let me bleed out and if they are fine with it, I'll leave them on the ground aswell.
It is just a really bad design.
As for the topic, the Devs tried the finisher mori in the PTB a while ago, which would have fixed the bleed out situation, but it didn't make it to live. So I would guess that the Devs are not completly happy with the current situation but unsure about the right solution. It's also possible that they have given up on it but I hope not.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747948#Comment_3747948
I know doc hallucinations show for survivors, but I thought they only show to Doc himself when using certain addons. As for screaming... that's the basic effect of T3 madness. Are we suggesting to ditch the madness status effect?
As far as I know t3 hallucinations are always shown to the doctor, t2 hallucinations only with addons.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746089#Comment_3746089
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746296#Comment_3746296
Cherry Blossom creates a skill issue because these players don't learn how to use and understand sounds in the game and how to react to counterplays on the survivorside. Similar to Stridor Spirit users. I think these Spirit players you saw with this Addon wanted to do a daily or archive - they were not Spiritplayers. The normal Spiritplayers don't run this Addon. In my opinion, this Addon needs a rework not only because it creates a skillissue but also it removes a big counterplay on the survivorside.
Also it is not okay when a killer is forced to run one particular Addon because one Perk removes a big part of gameplayelement. That's just unhealthy.
Not every survivor build needs an exhaustion perk. However, survivors can run an exhaustion perk alongside Iron Will since DH and BGP exist and you can control when you want to use them unlike SB, Lithe or Balance Landing. So the downside is not really a downside. It the same lowkey argument like players did to pretend MFT was healthy.
Or they wanted to play a strong killer without having to learn them the hard way. Most combined it with mother daughter ring and the number of spirits I saw dropped with the rings nerf, so I don't it was just challenges.
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@Dreh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746089#Comment_3746089
I pity the survivor who will only face Spirit with Cherry Blossom. As for being meta or not, it's just your perspective, which I think is totally wrong.
Most spirits I see run cherry blossom already, so it will change nothing.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745292#Comment_3745292
Solo doesn't need anymore buffs. They have enough free information, which doesn't do much for them but it does a lot for SWF in that they don't have to waste callouts for things such as Remember Me. You're avoiding the main issue, which is matchmaking. 2 good survivors are put with 2 terrible ones, and a decent killer. The killer can just tunnel out the weak ones, easy pickings, and then the good survivors die as well for no reason. You're never gonna be able to buff solo survivor enough to where day 1 noobs, or wannabe day 1 noobs, can beat killers who are playing to win. These survivors don't want the win unless it's handed to them; they never improve because everything that's posed a threat to them has been nerfed. And it's still not enough!
You have to put survivor who give a flip with killers who give a flip, and the kiddies outside of that can just run around and do whatever because they're not playing their roles anywhere near their full potential. Once you have the group who knows what they're doing, you balance off them, not off the majority. Balancing for the majority makes beating SWF impossible, while not doing anything for struggling solos.
I'm not saying that match making isn't an issue (and I mentioned ragequits in another comment) but I still think there could be tweaks. For example, I matches where it costed us the game that solos can not see the face camp meter. (SWF can simply call it out and the face camp mechanic does not come into play in most matches, so I don't think that it would make much of a difference).
Also wasting a call out is a weird concept, it's Not like it takes more than 2 seconds to call a perk, so what do they need callouts safed for?
Also, the suggestions I posted came from Otz, who plays a lot of Killer so I don't think he would suggest something terribly op.
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@revna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745888#Comment_3745888
I didn't miss your point. My entire response was aimed stating whatever you think might be toxic, someone else might not think it is. Whatever happens in game like an example you used ghost face tbagging. It's part of their kit and to be completely honest. It's pretty funny because that's even the kind of persona ghostface has as a killer and it completes the entire image of him.
At the end of the day this game has certain aspects of it that make it competitive for die hards who will do 1v1's or team play and even casuals. It has a rank system and it has a prestige system and we even have developers that say about certain perks "I spent 4 months making salt." and ya know what? It's ok to have those aspects in the game. But the other things will come with it. It's like that in any game you make competitive. There are content creators who will go up against P400 teams and do everything they can to get the W. Up to and including bleeding out if they know they are running a ton of perks that can be countered by that. I've done it before as huntress and billy and it will continue to be part of my kit.
The post game chat toxicity is different. If you get hit on hook by a killer throwing axes at you because she's an axe throwing KILLER. If they come out and don't say anything? Then maybe just leave it at that. Because it's in the game and it's been that way for years and the reality is… it probably will never change. If they do come out and it becomes a toxic exchange of words between two people and the game is over and it becomes a flurry of insults and what not. Then at that point it's an issue between two individuals and I'm just gonna flat out say it, who can't just take the game for what it is and in my honest opinion. That has no place in the game same as any other game.
And I also touched base on your solo survivor statement but I'll say again this game was never meant to be a solo survivor experience. Most people solo Q because of one or two reasons they either a) don't have friends to play with or b) they want the challenge of solo Q because SWF always goes too well (it does). You're part of a team and your functionality is at peak when you're working as part of it and it shows because good teams will always destroy killers. If that said team survives me trying to kill them and they in excitement boop their butts across the finish line. Cool man… they can have their W.
And that said if it's a resolution you're looking for regarding all that. It's gonna take a pretty big overhaul to accomplish not only a mindset but a game issue as well.I don't think you read my other comments in this thread, toxic behaviour wasn't my starting point.
What I asked for was a "die-instantly-button" when all survivors are on the ground (maybe with a time delay like a minute) to make bleed out faster. I understand that you can't always hook as killer, but I'm not asking for basekit unbreakable. Whether you slug me for 4 minutes and I die or I use the button after a minute and die, the outcome is the same, in both cases I'm dead. But in one I wasted 4 minutes and in one just 1min. I'm not trying to end slugging in general, again, I'm just talking about the specific situation when everbody is on the ground, so the game is technically over.
I'm not asking for bans like the OP did and I'm also not saying that all Killers let people bleed out to be toxic, my point was about time waste, the other person brought toxic behaviour in the discussion. They had an issue with my suggestion because they felt it takes an option from the Killer to retaliate against toxic behaviour. I don't think anyone should be entiteld to reciprocate toxic behaviour, not even solo survivors, I just brought solo survivors up as an example that retaliation is not always possible and that is something we have to live with. Wanting to keep an option for retaliation is imo not a good reason to be against a change like the one I suggested.
Yes, if something is toxic or not is up to personal interpretation, but I'm not suggesting fixes for teabagging/humping here (I don't care to much about that, but I also don't think fixing them is possible). I thing most people dislike their time being wasted though (e.g. survivors waiting and teabagging in the exit gate is generally disliked even if you don't seem to mind it to much) so that is what I want fixed. Some years ago the Devs made it so, that the struggle phase is skipped when all survivors are on hook and their explanation was time wasted, so they said the precedent that time shouldn't be wasted when the match is technically over, that is all I'm asking for.
My comment with the insults in end game chat was purely provocative to emphasize that there is no option for retaliation. Again, I'm not advocating for insults in endgame chat (already said that in the other comment though).
And yes the game comes with plenty of options that can be really frustrating for the other side. But I'm not asking for all of that to be fixed, I'm not asking for a big overhaul like you mentioned, just this specific issue. Other people have brought up the finisher mori that the Devs already tried on the PTB, so that would be a different possible solution to the situation I have an issue with.
And it seem like you don't mind being bled or teabagged in the exit gate and that's fine, but others do, so I don't see the issue with suggesting a fix for that (I'm also not saying that my suggestion is perfect but until now nobody has critized my suggestion in terms of content, only that I made the suggestion at all).
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@revna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745839#Comment_3745839
There is no one consistent thing that a survivor can do to retaliate in the same right. This game isn't made for the solo person in mind. It's meant to work and decide and make decisions as a team to survive. With that said, when the team works together I assure you there are plenty of things survivors can do to stranglehold the game for a killer. Spend 5 minutes on youtube and I'm sure your algorithm will be loaded with it.
As far as the game not being solo oriented. You literally have big creators like hens making videos showing how hard they have to go to get a good survival rate as a solo which further solidifies that.
Unless they develop some review system like CS had with their overwatch program where players could watch the game back which will never happen. All the in game stuff will go down as what happens in game stays in game and lets be real here. We all know nothing will be done about that but I get it wishful thinking.
As far as the post game chat. Totally different subject and that should be dealt with harshly. If something triggers you in a video game to the point that you act out like that. Probably best to go outside.I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that I want to be toxic to other people and insult them in the game chat (I've removed that part of my comment since it seemed to be confusing). The person I replied is against a bleeding out change because they want to keep it as a way to retaliate and act as if they have a right to do so. So my point was, where is this right as solo survivor?
In general I don't think anybody deserves a right to be toxic back.
And that groups can be a miserable experience is a different point that I never questioned.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745767#Comment_3745767
lmao that’s a reach for sure, you’re desperately trying to make me seem biased but it still ain’t working.I used the point about SWF streaks to prove the fact that SWFs are obviously stronger than non SWFs and that’s a reason why people don’t like them. There is no reason at all in that thread to bring up killer winstreaks and is irrelevant about the threads topic. It’s a topic about SWfS not winstreaks.
No one can say a killer is stronger than SWF because it depends on the people in the SWF and it depends on the killer player. Nurse is not stronger than a SWF if I am playing Nurse going up against team eternal. But if it’s a Superalf Nurse going against a 4 friend SWF who plays for fun than the Nurse will win. Trying to make it black and white is beyond disingenuous.
Like I said I’m probably one of the few actually unbiased people here. And I challenge anybody to find something from me that is objectively unfairly biased. C3 Tooth acted like I was biased for defending Huntys movement speed buff until I shut him down by showing him that some of the most respected people in the community agreed with me.
Again, there is a more than 600 wins streak on Oni, who had a 58% win rate according to the latest stats. So by your logic we can assume that Oni is stronger than his stats indicate (just like you discarded the stats that only show a small difference between SWF and solo based on swf win streaks) and he should be nerfed.
If you really can't see why it is biased to use survivor win streaks to ignore stats but not Killer win streaks to ignore stats I really don't know what to say.
Btw, I did not make a black and white statement about whose is stronger, Nurse or SWF, I asked you a question based on you 1000+ win streaks comment.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745785#Comment_3745785
You said that SWF are toxic and you want a way to retaliate (ignoring
that there are other things that a Killer can do to be "toxic" except
slugging) and I said that that is an insane take.Why? Serving toxic players their own medicine is an insane take? You want to remove the killer's ability to be toxic, while allowing survivors to continue doing it freely? This is essentially what you want to achieve by nerfing bleedout while leaving all of survivors BM untouched.
- I already mentioned oxygen's suggestion to end survivors teabagging in the exit gate and I'm generally in favour of adding such a mechanic. That means that both sided would lose a way to be toxic, pretty fair in my opinion.
- Again, you ignore that Killers have more "toxic tools" than slugging: Teabagging (some Killers), humping, hitting on hook, even tunneling/camping can be used to punish a toxic player. You can also get creative like letting the useless solo player live while killing the toxic 3man. I can tell you from experience that that works like a charm.
- You seem to thing that a player should have right and the options to retaliate against other toxic players. So let's say I'm an innocent solo survivor that gets slugged to death without any reason. What is my way to retaliate? By your logic the Devs would need to add options to be toxic in that situation.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745777#Comment_3745777
It is literally what I meant, and yes, it is utopian to the point that I don't think anything the devs would add to the game would 100% solve this problem, but it is how it is: If people played well (and with that I don't mean "loop the killer for 5 gens", but having the minimum game sense) and didn't give up so easily, the SoloQ experience would be much better.
This is not a problem exclusive to DbD, either. In every team-based game the experience will be much worse if you play solo in comparison to playing with a squad of trusted people. The problem with the DbD community is that for some reason they blame anything else but themselves, including the balancing in comparison to SWF, which leads to
demandask for changes in pro of "mAh SoLoQ eXpErIeNcE" disregarding that those changes would generally unbalance the game or that it won't solve the real problem. Because let's be real, the problem can't be solved without changing the mentality of the playerbase as a whole.Of course, I'm not saying there aren't balance issues or things that need to be added to the game that can alleviate this, from better matchmaking (proper MMR brackets) to better in-game documentation (per-killer tutorial of how to play as and against) and QoL features to allow solos to coordinate better (quickchat, more HUD elements, or even voicechat). But at some point, people should start to realize that maybe the problem is not that the game is not adapted to them, but that they not adapt to the game.
Sorry, I missunderstood you then. Generally I agree with you points.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745640#Comment_3745640
Nice of you to completely change the subject of the discussion, but my point stands: bleeding out is the killer's reflection of survivors' teabagging, blind and stun spam, saboing and other BM, so it would be unjust to remove one without addressing the other.
I die not change the subject of the discussion.
You said that SWF are toxic and you want a way to retaliate (ignoring that there are other things that a Killer can do to be "toxic" except slugging) and I said that that is an insane take. It might shock you, but there are Killers that get bmed by survivors and are able to just continue to play normally without any BM, so acting as if you need options to retaliate for the game to stay balanced is simply insane.
You also said that it prevents BM, and I said that is not true. The survivor you BM will just feel justified in bming other Killers because "that Killer was an ass, all Killers are an ass, why should we be nice?" (You know, kinda like your justification for bming SWFs).
I added to the discussion that you understanding of justice hurts the group you claim to advocate for, but that is still related to the original topic so I don't think I'm derailing here.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745631#Comment_3745631
The killer DCing could be anything
No, the killer DCing is a 4 escape and it counts as such. Whether BHVR counts those matches or not for their stats has nothing to do with the in game rewards and winning conditions.
Is there really a difference between suiciding on hook within 1 minute of a trial and being tunneled out of the trial within 1 minute?
Yes, the person who does the action. One is the survivor's fault, the other isn't. One means that the survivor at least tried, and the other means that the survivor didn't even try at all. One makes you a bad teammate, the other doesn't.
And most of the times, survivors go next because of objective reasons you personally might not have noticed, like seeing auras of half of their team hiding in bushes.
Sorry to break it to you, but, um… that is still survivors not being good teammates, mate.
You used an "experiment" of a guy who blatantly manipulated the counted escape rate as an argument
No, I used that "experiment" as proof that if you play well, make the right decisions at the right time, bring perks that help the team instead of the "5 gen looper" build, and of course, you at least try to play and not quit the moment something doesn't go your way, your and your team's escape rate will be higher. The fact that counting all those things while not counting DCs gives a 64.8% escape rate is only further proof that the main problem with SoloQ is survivor's doing and not even trying in the first place.
You are not proving me wrong, you are confirming my points.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745645#Comment_3745645
Do you realize that those survivors who "aren't willing to be teamplayers and ragequit" are also survivors? I think the problem here is that you are taking this like I'm literally saying "it is your fault" to you when I'm talking about the player base in general. There is no reason to take it personally.
And yeah, like I said, there are a couple of QoL things they should add to help those "teamplayers" be able to coordinate better, starting with a Quickchat function. But that's a different topic all together.
To me your original quote sounded like you are saying that a singular survivor has more options to fix their experience than I think they do (based on Hens' video, where he specifically excluded the matches completly outside of his control) because you are dependant on your teammates, so there is only so much a single survivor can do.
Maybe you meant your comment more in a "If all survivors would play in this way than the situation would be bettter" and I missunderstood. That statement is true but it is really utopian, I don't think ragequiting will get better without intervention from the Devs.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745545#Comment_3745545
Nope, never once did that lmao. And even if I did who cares? If you talk about one sides win streaks you don’t have to talk about the others lol, it depends on the context. In fact I brought up killer win streaks and ignored survivor win streaks because they only got a 383 win streak and then 36 after that. I did talk about Huntress’s hugest win streak only being 101 despite being insanely OP according to everyone.
I did say however that if Nurse didn’t exist, that survivor team probably could’ve gotten to 1,000 escapes though. Which I’m pretty sure is true.
Like I said people say I’m biased because I look at things factually but I talk about unfair things that they want to keep IE distortion. I never said Distortion should be deleted (besides in a joke comment) but 10 seconds is in fact insane, it recharges in AND out of chase (pebble which is far weaker doesn’t) and forces killers to tunnel if a few people use it.
You did bring up SWF streaks in a discussion about the advantage of SWF and ignored the answers about killer winstreaks you got. Seems like ignoring killer win streaks to me. Obviously you don't have to talk about killer win streaks when you talk about survivor win streaks, but ignoring the answers gives of the "I ignore what doesn't fit my opinion"-vibe.
Blight and Nurse got 1000+ win streaks with SWF being a thing, so Nurse and Blight are stronger than SWF?
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745459#Comment_3745459
The killer DCing is a 4 out, and like I said, being such a bad teammate that you disconnect or suicide on hook is part of the problem of SoloQ: Survivors themselves.
Again, this doesn't invalidate any of the points I made.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745543#Comment_3745543
I don't know what you understand by "try to play as a team", but if you quit at first chance, then obviously you weren't trying to play as a team. In fact, you weren't trying to play at all. So, I don't know how that contradicts anything of what I said, even less when you seem to agree with this being on the survivor.
But I can rephrase what I said to be more specific: "Who would have thought that if you are good at the game, have good game sense, and try to play as a team without quitting the moment things don't go how you want, would make you and your team mates win more games even in SoloQ?"
Not sure if I worded my original comment so badly but obviously I'm not encouraging ragequits.
My point is, I can play like a team player but if my teammates aren't willing to be teamplayers and ragequit there is nothing I can do.
So while saying "It's the survivor fault" is not necessarily wrong (though I do think that more information like seeing other players perks or the facecamp progress would be a good addition) it does not help those survivors who are already teamplayers.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745574#Comment_3745574
"my way of being toxic" is merely a retaliation to what SWF bully squads do. If SWFs have one thousand and one ways of making the life of a killer miserable, might as well keep at least some ways of returning the favor. It actually stops the toxicity from spreading too far: every survivor wannabe bully will think twice before teabagging, blinding, saboing, etc, if they know the killer has a way to get back at them. Slugging is the best, if not the only, way of self-defense for killers at the moment.
SWF can not prevent the Killer from doing anything for 4 minutes.
Also, "other people are toxic and I want to be able to retaliate no matter who else is affected by it" is one of the most insane takes I've seen in this forum.
Being left to bleed out is not an SWF only experience and I think it is even worse for solo que because you can't just talk about something else in the time. You complain so much about solo que but are against changes that would help solo aswell because you are worried that you can't be as mean to SWF as you want to. Seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face to me.
Also if you against a 3man or a duo and tunnel them mercilessly the solo que players in the lobby are negativly affected aswell because it is unlikely to make it to endgame when someone dies early (not mentioning that over time there must be a decent amount of solo players that you have mistaken for SWF).
And you are not preventing anything, if anything you validate them in their toxicity.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744960#Comment_3744960
I’ve never been biased about anything actually. In fact I think I’m the only one here who can set aside their bias and look at things objectively.
Would I want Huntress to be S Tier absolutely. Do I think she should be? No; I don’t know if any killer should be. Distortion is an overturned perk and that can’t be denied. It is factual.
Weren't you the person that brought up survivor win streaks and then ignored killer win streaks?
Seems pretty biased to me.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745139#Comment_3745139
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745273#Comment_3745273
But that's still survivor's fault. My point and all what I said still stands.
Clutching at straws here, it seems.
I was trying to respond to this part of your comment:
"Who would have thought that if you are good at the game, have good game sense, and try to play as a team (which is the main strength of survivors, being 4 vs 1) would make you and your team mates win more games even in SoloQ?"
Even If you play like this, when you get survivors that instantly quit, there isn't much that you can do. And yes that is on the survivor, but you can be a player that never quits but you are still effected by it, so it should be addressed (a common suggestion I've seen is matching survivors who ragequit often with other survivors who ragequit often.)
I don't know how many games Hens excluded but I like to point out that Otzdarva's 39% winrate in solo que inspired him to make this video. Otz is a good players aswell and from what I've seen tries to help his teammates but that wasn't enough to get him over 40%.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745096#Comment_3745096
What would be the corresponding action for the killer who is getting teabagged then? "Press button to annihilate the teabagging survivor"?
I assume you are talking about teabagging at the exit gate, @oxygen already made a suggestion for that in the comment section of this post.
If you are talking about teabagging in general: The Killer equivalent to survivor teabagging is also teabagging (ghostface, pig) or humping. If you have a good suggestion to fix both I'm happy to hear.
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@Sandt1985 said:
Do solo survivors really need more help, though?
I'd like to point out how many buffs solo que got in the past 2 years. Anti face camp, basekit BT, the new gen regression rework to prevent three gens, nerfs to gen regression perks across the board multiple times, a way for all survivors to see when another survivor is in chase, showing all survivors what specific action another survivor is doing at all times, the visual heartbeat, STBFL was nerfed, mangled was gutted, solo que has gotten a lot of help over the years. The one other thing they tried was basekit unbreakable, but that PTB it was tried in showed why that should never be attempted again.I gotta ask, what more do you want? Basekit 5 second DS? Basekit Kindred? The sacrifice meter freezes when the killer is nearby, thus guaranteeing free unhooks? Killer losing movement speed when they chase the last survivor that was hooked? When will it be enough?
I assure you, I’m not trying to be rude or snarky, but at what point will solo survivors look at what they have and say, this is enough? More specifically, what are they actually looking for
Most of those buff where general survivor buffs not solo buffs specifically. And some of them came with killer buffs aswell (e.g. the 3gen prevention came with the kick buff).
Anti face camp just killed basement Bubba, it does not help against proxy camping (I'm not saying that it should, I just think people overestimate it's effects in normal matches).
I saw a comment from Otz recently with ideas for solo buffs (not saying that I agree with all of them but you asked):
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744810#Comment_3744810
I will apply your logic in reverse to answer: You think we should balance the game around those P100 survivors that, after hundreds of hours, still just press W and predrop pallets no matter what killers they are up against?
You could at least watch the video before going straight for the strawman argument, by the way.
He excluded games with a ragequit at the start of the match. Those are part of the normal solo que experience though and not uncommon.
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Making it bannable is excessive, but it should be fixed.
Maybe something like when every survivor is on the ground and you have been slugged for a minute, press a button to die instantly.
Survivors die instantly when all hit struggle phase to not waste the Killers time, so why is it okay that the killer wastes survivors time?
For the people that say hooking is sometimes not possible: An option to die would still mean the survivor dies so it is the Same outcome.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744709#Comment_3744709
Pretty much. A Spirit main did some testing of all the survivors with current (75%) Iron Will, which was interesting. Can skip to the end for their ranking. It was based purely on Spirit as the killer, but since most of the complaints around original Iron Will were because of Spirit (if I'm recalling correctly) they are probably the best judges when it comes to this perk.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=lisxhW-nHD4-zXRJ&v=HHRcwxPvVHQ&feature=youtu.be
Interesting, thanks :)
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@RedPoncho12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744709#Comment_3744709
nah, I main Bill and for him it was very useful even at 75% because he’s so loud. On quieter characters, yes, it’s more effective but doesn’t mean it was useless on those who aren’t as silent
I tried it only Laurie a few time and it seemed to do nothing, but maybe I gave up to early.
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@RedPoncho12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744667#Comment_3744667
nah iron will 75% was still great (I use it all the time to this day) and am glad that my favorite perk since 2017 is returning to what it once was. It was changed to shake up meta and reduce the amount of people using it (same thing). I do think, if they want change it again… just add another downside, like MAYBE giving the killer a slight advantage with being able to get a lesser bloodhound effect on the survivor who is running iron will. Although I don’t think that’ll be necessary.
In my experience it was only good on the already quieter characters.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740167#Comment_3740167
You are equating two different things to eachother
Useless teammates have existed since this game came out but players with distortion playing around the fact they can not be found and selling out their teammates have only existed since distortions rework I guarantee you based on the fact the OP typed.
Don't realize that SoloQ survivor is selfish even without the perk.
It's every man for themselves and the other players owe nothing to you.
When they use distortion they are using you to save their skin at the expense of yours.
I am going to be 100% honest even if you don't like it. Based on how you typed this you are, and I hate to type this you seem to be an "entitled survivor main" as much of a meme as that sentence is. This is as your main concern is something strong that should be nerfed on the survivor side players are talking about being nerfed and you say
it feels like every chapter release gives killers more and more ways to find survivors
when this is how chapter releases that add perks to the game work across the board.
There are more aura perks than 5 years ago along with regression perks, progression perks, exhaustion perks, gen blocking perks, anti-tunnel perks, unhook perks, on-hook perks, slugging perks, anti-slugging perks, pallet-based perks, chase perks and so on.
It only matters how good the best of these perks so when you say "it feels like" feels is doing a lot of lifting.
But don't take my word for it I may as well just a terrible killer player ranting so I went the the first big YouTuber I could think of (otzdarva's) tier list and looked at the killer perks he rated highly.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y9LOET2U5YY9/image.png
5 info perks made it above his third tier which is considered the "decent" tier one of which has heavily been nerfed since and one is not primarily used as an info perk but to protect totems leaving just 3 perks there and does nowhere to hide the only one left of 3 that was added past distortions rework justify its existence.
nope, it does not even generously throw you a bone in weave attunement which is just not good enough to be in this post it still doesn't.
So you are wrong and as much as people may not like the two-sidedness of posts they can't say that and then make posts like that that are just wrong but eloquently put but clearly dont understand the side of the game they are talking about then say
I find it's mostly killer mains trying to tell us solo survivors that we should want Distortion nerfed to punish the people who use it, but reality is that a Distortion nerf only benefits killers. And they know that. Like, please don't spit on me and tell me it's raining lol thanks.
when you don't give any thought to the other side of this game.
I think the amount of good aura perks that where added recently and the amount of aura perks you encounter in game are two different things.
Lethal is the 3rd most picked perk in nightlight, BBQ the 4th Most and lethal the 6th, so while I agree with you that the amount of good aura perks that where added is limited, aura perks are certainly played a lot.
For a long time BBQ was the only aura reading perk that you saw often (I don't remember seeing many people with lethal back than) and BBQ is usually easy to counterplay without perks like distortion.
I think the popularity of lethal rose with the popularity of nowhere to hide and I do think nth alone is enough to justify distortion in it's current form. Nth has no cooldown and travels with the killer so compared to bbq you don't know if it has been triggered.
Sure, distortion players sometimes screw their teammates, but they could try to take a chase so that is less on distortion and more on the Players themselves imo.
Also aura reading addons exist and some of them are not uncommon aswell like glowing concoction or Yardstick.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742531#Comment_3742531
I just wanted to further elaborate on the why of "streaks don't mean much", I agreed with you in the first sentence ^^
Okay, got it :)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742460#Comment_3742460
Yeah but such streaks don't mean much... Mainly because matcaking is so bad and the odds to go against a 4 men comp squad regularly are just so low... That is also why KNightlight managed to get 500 wins on perk less addon less Nurse... From the beginning he said the streak will end when a 4 men comp team snipes him, and otherwise not... And I think that is quite fair strenght wise... But it just shows how bad matchmaking is...
It is not about the amount of restrictions it puts on people but just that there are restrictions... Imagine going to the park with your buddies and you get asked if you are friends and then they have you put on a badge that says you came as friends... Not really a limitation but still annoying, it is about the general idea of having restrictions because you play with friends not about it being a big deal.
I literally said that streaks do not mean much and that matchmaking is bad in my original comment, am I misunderstanding something?
Yeah, I get what you are saying. Limiting items to two per kind in general would probably be annoying for solos, three Medkits in one lobby aren't uncommon in my experience, so I don't see a solution.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742441#Comment_3742441
I think the 2000 wins on Blight were before Blight got nerfed 3 times...
Any limitations you bring forward for when people queue up together will always feel like getting punished for playing friends, that will just never work.
Oni wasn't nerfed as far as I know…
Otzdarva released a video about the streak in Dezember at about 1600 wins, the streak ended in March at 1947, Blight's nerfs started in January so I'm pretty sure that quite a few wins happened after the addon nerfs (hug tech nerf was after the streak though).
Blight is maybe not the best example I admit that, you probably wouldn't get that high with any other Killer than Nurse but my point is less about the crazy high number and more about win streaks in general. Otzdarva mentioned a 350+ win streak on Wraith in the video in mentioned above. My point is simply "win streaks are possible as killer aswell and they are not a good indicator of balance".
I don't think limiting items to two per kind would be too restrictive, but that might just be me.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742037#Comment_3742037
That is the single most ignorant thing I ever heard lmao. Then I guess we’ll discount the 383 escape streak a group of survivors got because that doesn’t match the stats lolololol😂
So you want to balance around win streaks?
Fine, a Streamer got more than 1.900 wins on blight. Sure, most people would say that Blight is a strong Killer, but 2.000 wins would warrant a massive nerf if we balance by winstreaks, wouldn't it? Same Guy got more than 600 wins on Oni, so Oni OP?
I have two issues with win streaks:
1. The people who do streaks are usually very experienced and good players. Matchmaking sucks though, so in many cases they will be matched against Players that can't really compete anyway even if the better player does not bring strong stuff.
2. There are many things you can do to make your win more likely without looking at the skill or the killer or the voice comms like map offerings, addons and items. And sure SWF has an advantage in this regard because it is really unlikely that 4 Solos will coordinate in the pregame lobby to all bring a good toolbox with a BNP, but If a signifikant amount of SWF would play in this way you should see that in the stats (just like if most people would play like the 1900+ hours Blight his killrate should be very high). I do think limiting items to two per kind in SWF wouldn't be a bad idea and map offerings shouldn't be a thing in general, but it is not as big as a problem as people are making it out to be.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741646#Comment_3741646
Imagine ignoring 95% of everything I wrote considering I just told you my SWF (with 3 new people) can win often if we choose too and the fact that we dont use clock callouts but still there is extreme info.
You can not discount my points just because YOU don’t play that way. You have no idea what the majority of people do honestly, so you are making huge blanket statements with zero evidence.
I’m telling you why SWFs are hated and that is the reason why and it’s not debatable lmao, that’s literally why they are hated., insane information and coordination, even mediocre SWFs can let each other know to start holding W key which is hell for any killer to go against.
I'd say we can discount your points because they don't match the official stats. You say that some of your mates are new, so they shouldn't be high MMR.
4man SWF overall only has a 3% higher escape, so your experience does not match the official stats.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734237#Comment_3734237
The only "issue" with Skull Merchant is that players think they are entitled to dictate who the killer is and is not allowed to play. If there are actual balance issues with her, then those need to be addressed, but how can they possibly be even known if so many players DC or hook suicide without even trying to learn how to go against her?
Same goes for The Lich now actually… Is he OP? Not at all, but nobody cares to actually learn how to play against him, they just scream "OMG I CAN'T ROFLSTOMP THE LICH LIKE I CAN THE PIG! HE'S OP! NERF HIM AND NERF THE PIG TOO FOR GOOD MEASURE!"I think skullmerchant is fine.
The original comment I replied too insinuated, that there must be something wrong with swf because many players don't want to play against them. That is why I brought up skullmerchant as an example of something that many people also don't want to play against, even though I think she is fine. (And I think the original commenter thinks she is fine too).
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733720#Comment_3733720
If knowing it is a SWF group vs not a SWF group creates a scenario where everyone starts dodging the SWF groups, that would indicate that there is a problem with SWF and the game balance would it not?
Didn't you say in the last discussion that the difference in survival rates between solo and SWF is that solos kill themselves on hook more?
Also, in the last discussion you mentioned that skullmerchant has a 70% kill rate, presumably due to hook suicides? So if so many people suicide against skullmerchant, is there an issue with skullmerchant?
Also, since you mentioned data in a different comment:
Across all MMR only 4 man SWF has a higher escape rate and only 3%, so that is really not that big of a difference.
In high MMR 3mans have a 3% higher escape and 4mans have an 8% higher escape rate. Sure, 8% is a significant difference, but the escape rate is still under 50%, so while higher than intended, not crazy high.
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@n000b51 said:
Ok thanks. Maybe it should be written in the desc. because it is not obvious.
Probably the red timer & the perk should be deactivated as soon as you do some conspicuous action because we could think OTR can proc' again…The aura and sound blocking is still active, thats why the timer is still running.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728972#Comment_3728972
But it does explain it, because SWF are likely not insta killing themselves on hook.
I want you to really stop and think about the data that is presented. Yeah, DCs are excluded sure, but obviously insta hook suicides are included.
Really REALLY think about it. The data is SO infested with insta hook suicides, that Skull merchant has a 70 PERCENT kill rate. This says that if someone queues up as skull merchant there is probably a >50% chance that people just immediately give up. I can certainly say that is the case in MY experience when playing skull merchant. I can queue up for 10 games as skull merchant, and i'll probably actually get to play maybe 3 of them if i'm lucky. That is how prevalent it is. And if you look around these forums it has only INCREASED since they removed depipping. After all, if i think we are going to lose the match, why not just get myself into the next game as fast as possible? There is literally no penalty for doing so.
I would like to see them release that data, for games where no survivor attempts to do a 4%. I would bet that the escape rate is MUCH higher in those games.
I don't understand why you are arguing with me than?
My original point was, that the difference between SWF and solo is not that big except for high MMR 4mans. I missunderstood some of your other comments before so just in case: You think that the (small) difference in survival rates between solo and SWF is only due to hook suicides? So you don't think there is any advantage in communication etc?
In my comment to the other person I already said that I think bad matchmaking and dcs/suicides are the biggest problem of solo matches, so I'm not disagreeing.
As for the implications for the kill rate, as long as they don't fix the dc/suicide issue it does not matter, because you can not buff around the killrate without dcs/suicides as long as they are still so prevalent in the game.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726428#Comment_3726428
You guys seriously underestimate what a 3% in thousands upon thousands of matches is.
Keep in mind soloq has been hell since they upped the kill rate about a 5%.
The difference between 40 and 43% is noticeable. The difference between 40 and 48% is massive.
I honestly believe they should have trimmed the escape rate at the high end instead of overall. 45%e-55%k was a good split if they wanted to preserve the "power role" thing.
What the game needed was putting premades back in line, not pushing solo alongside them to a miserable 40% escape rate. Soloq is cannon fodder to give the illusion of balance because otherwise premades sit at 50% escape rate and we can't have that.
By the Devs own report the kill rate rose about 8%, not 5%.
There are statistical methods to judge the size of an effect, but I don't think the Devs have given enough information to calculate it. I mention that because I don't think that 3% is that much, but without an effect size estimate it's just an opinion.The Devs did not say what high MMR means but in older stats they used the top 5%, so I'm assuming that this is still the case. So yeah, 8% is a signifikant difference but how many players are going to fall in this category?
The majority of SWFs are going to fall in the 2man and 3man overall category that have no difference to solos, so if you want to nerf SWF how are you going to make sure that they aren't affected?
Communication can help, but I still think the biggest issues with solo is matchmaking and people who dc and kill themselves on hook for no reason and nerfs to SWFs aren't going to fix it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728289#Comment_3728289
My point is, the SAME data, that this person is citing, also says that skull merchant is the most overpowered killer that has ever existed and that nurse needs buffs so she can be on par with some of the much stronger killers like freddy and myers.
My point is, either you believe that the data is accurate, and that what i said above is true, or you believe that the data is inaccurate. The fact that skull merchant is listed as having that high of a kill rate tells me that lots of people still immediately just give up against skull merchant, leading her to get "4k" because everyone just kills themselves on hook. If that is being included in the data, which i suspect it is, don't you think that maybe the reason that escape rates are so low, is because it is included matches where the survivors just immediately give up? Or where someone DCs? I would imagine that escape rate is highly correlated with giving up. I'd bet that the vast majority of games, where someone kills themself on a hook immediately, results in a 3 or 4k.
So because the data is showing that about SM, it is reasonable to conclude it is showing the same for escape rates. When that is in play, i'd imagine the "true" escape rate, where people actually play out the whole match, is actually much higher.
Matches with dcs are excluded, the Devs said that multiple times.
My point was not the general escape rate but the difference between SWF and Solo. While I agree that the killrate would probabaly be lower without the matches with an insta suicide, that can't be an explanation for the relativly small difference between SWF and solo escape rates, because hook suicides happen in both modes.
Also, stats like yours that are talken from the whole population are always going to look a bit different than stats solely taken from experienced players (e.g. Nurse) but that is besides the point for this discussion.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726428#Comment_3726428
Oh, you mean these same stats:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0Z2UMMIBYL7U/image.png
- Executioner: 60%
- Hag: 60%
- Artist: 60%
- Xenomorph: 59%
- Blight: 59%
- Wraith: 59%
- Nemesis: 59%
- Legion: 58%
- Good Guy: 58%
- Twins: 58%
- Oni: 58%
- Cannibal: 58%
- Clown: 58%
- Deathslinger: 57%
- Trapper: 57%
- Trickster: 57%
- Demogorgon: 57%
- Singularity: 56%
- Huntress: 56%
- Ghost Face: 56%
- Nurse: 55%
- Hillbilly: 54%
- Doctor: 51%
- Overall Average: 58.50%
So when are we going to be nerfing killers like skull merchant, who is obvious the most overpowered killer that has ever existed in the history of DBD. And when are we going to buff really weak killers like the nurse to be as strong as some of the much better killers like… "checks notes" … Freddy?
They did separate between all MMR and high MMR for the SWF stat and except for high MMR SWF (like I mentioned) the difference was still really small, so whats your point?
You know that the results look different for high MMR. But besides that, you think that everybody complaining about swf is high MMR?
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726345#Comment_3726345
just because it's in the game for a long time, doesn't mean it's intended
It is tough, is was mentioned in the patch notes.
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@daffyd said:
Where on earth have you obtained these stats?
BHVR have nevered publisedh anything, nevermind a useful stat regarding the huge imbalance between solo and SWFs, it's one of the reason why solo play is so unfun.
They did a few months ago, and the difference ist not that big (excluding high mmr 4man SWFs)
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If you mean that one survivor can go over a trap while another one ist disarming it, this is international, the Devs added it back in in the 2.2.0 Patch.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725762#Comment_3725762
"sigh" Why do people always accuse me of being just some killer main with biased views based on that premise alone. I realize the simplest concept is the easiest to argue but frankly its so narrow.
To your question about gen defence… I'd say the same thing.
As killer you have all the tools needed to pressure gens.
Yes gen defence and "anti-tunnel" perks make things easier, much easier, its why people run them, but they aren't mandatory.
There are plenty of vids about how to run structures, patrol and pressure gens, quickly find survivors. All basic game skills regardless of perks.
My advice to anyone who feels they need a particular perk to do well and want it base kit is… play without perks and addons for a bit and be sure to play the opposing side too.
…Or play atypical builds that don't involve common perks, now if only there was a game mode that had all players do that 🤔
For someone who is so particular about the meaning of words I would have expected you to know the difference between an accusation and a question. Honestly, I'm not surprised by your answer at all, but I wasn't sure, that is why I asked.
For the discussion in general I guess we are just running in a circle.
Not sure if the last part of your answer was directed at me since I've already said that I enjoyed Chaos Shuffle, but it's gone now, so that isn't an option anymore. Edit: Nevermind, I saw the extension, that is nice, but unless they make it permant it will stop being an option at some point.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723663#Comment_3723663
No the point is in chaos shuffle these frequently used perks aren't available, making them basekit defeats the purpose. Same way in lights out mode the map was darker and it made it a lot harder, if you want the ability to see well then I wouldn't play lights out mode.
The usual its too hard to play the game so please make built in perks.
Its not as simple as "get gud", its the more obvious engaging in poor play is bad for survival.
Running around making heaps of noise is bad for survival.
Making unsafe unhooks is bad for survival.
Body blocking with BT rather than using it to flee is often very bad for survival.
Getting found first is bad for survival.
Running blindly away from the killer with no plan is bad for survival.
Yes people get "tunnelled" but even without perks you have a myriad of tools to deal with being "tunnelled". They are the same tools you use in any chase "tunnelled" or otherwise.
Until a player does get some experience with skills and perks, cautious play is smart play. It's entirely to possible to exercise caution regardless of perks, none of what I listed above requires perks and will ensure better survival.
It's just a shame that many players, regardless of skill level, appear not very smart. You are gonna die a lot in DBD especially at the start. Some learn from it and grow, some tantrum and quit.
Just out of curiosity, what would/did you say to the post like "Chaos Shuffle showed that Killers need slowdown perks"?
There are 140 Survivor perks in the game, having one of them as base kit would still leave 139 for Chaos Shuffle. Besides that, I'm sure there are ways to incentivize target switching that do not include making anything basekit, so that would not interfere with Chaos Shuffle at all.
But my main point is not about Chaos Shuffle, it is just an alternative game mode, it does not need to be perfectly balanced, I think it just shows why people chose what they usually chose (having addons and items available is kinda dumb though and defeats the purpose more than any base kit perk imo, but that is besides the point).
Doing stupid moves is not the same as being tunneled. To add to your examples, if I go back to the gen injured after the unhook and the Killer finds me there it's my own fault. I'm sure there are survivors that would call tunneling in this case but you seem to think the majority would. You seem to think that players are mostly being tunneled because they don't know how to play smart and that is a bit insulting.
When a Killer really wants to tunnel in my experience they stay near the hook and search for the injured person right away, when they don't have line of sight on them at the time of the unhook. Playing sneaky when you are injured and the Killer is already near you is a lot harder because of the cries of pain and blood, also detection perks are popular, so hiding in this szenario ist really hard when you do not have perks available like otr, iw,.. If the Killer finds you, looping well is the only option and then we are back at square one.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723070#Comment_3723070
but if it’s only relevant to the chaos shuffle game mode then adding base kit mechanics that mimic perks that you don’t have due to the new game mode, defeats the purpose of the new game mode anyway.
If you want those perks play the base game.
I wouldn't say that it would defeat the new game mode's purpose, by that logic base kit bt would have made the Chaos Shuffle needless years ago when it was added.
Chaos Shuffle is still enjoyable to me even with the tunneling it just kinda sucks when you are playing for fun (no items, playing around with the random perks etc) in a fun mode and your opponent isn't. Before you say it, I know that this true for Killers aswell.
As for the normal game mode, I don't mind bringing otr every match, but it is locked behind a paywall and grind (same with ds unless you get lucky with a shrine), so especially newer players might not have it available and they are more vulnerable to tunneling anyway, so I do think some base kit tunneling protection would be nice. I know that would be a buff for survivors, so Killers would need a compensation.
In general your original advice kinda has the vibe "just get good and then tunneling want be an issued anymore" which is true in theory but not really helpful, because getting good takes time and is hindered by the lack of a good practice mode and playing cautious is kinda dependant on perks someone might not have available for one reason or another.
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@pseudechis said:
You don’t need anti tunnel perks and mechanics to counter tunneling though.
Cautious play and good chases are a great counter to tunneling.
I don't want to revieve our old discussion but there is still no good way to practice looping.
And cautious play is a lot easier when you have perks like off the record available (I mean the aura protection and the muffled sounds, not the endurance) which you might not have in Chaos Shuffle.
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"There has also been times when I'm last survivor and also with seconds the hatch is closed. In the old version it gave Killers and Survivors CLUES to where it would spawn when there are 2 survivors."
What clues are you talking about?