Steel_Eyed
Steel_Eyed
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- Steel_Eyed
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501618#Comment_3501618
That's not how math works.
Old wipe animation was 3 seconds.
STBFL is 5% per stack.
STBFL with 3 second wipe animation = 3 - (3 * 0.4) = 1.8 second wipe animation
STBFL with 2.7 second wipe animation = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.4) - 1.62 second wipe animation.
Your proposal to make it 6 stacks = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.3) = 1.89 second wipe animation.
Strictly you would be nerfing it to be worse than it was before the basekit changes to the wipe animation.
On that note though.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385707/your-thoughts-on-stbfl
Are we really living in a world where people are complaining about STBFL? Like, the one thing that keeps m1 killers able to deal with some of the ridiculous things in the game. You need to stop asking to nerf things that don't affect nurse spirit and blight when they aren't a problem.
Why are you trying to nerf pig and demogorgon and legion?
Killers should not be hitting faster than the unhook animation. Which is 2.0 seconds. Compared to old versions or not, it’s cheese in the game.
My prescription would be to lower the effectiveness of STBFL or increase the unhook timer.
And the cheeseheads in this thread whomst think killers have a right to camp hooks, and tell survivors to just not save: That is killer entitlement in its purest and I believe the developers have made it clear they are doing away with that level of camping. Clutch your pearls.
This game needs to encourage the chase interactions and not strategies that supersede it.
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STBFL? It is by far the best killer perk in the game right now. Overtuned. Deserving of a nerf.
The fact that it makes camping so much easier is a crutch. Mixed with destroying survivors in chases (especially when they run into a wall, lose distance, etc).
I am going to keep using it til they balance it out.
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He is very inconsistent for me. I normally feel competitive with killers but never sure with Singularity.
There were several streamers saying he is very map dependent. That may be the core issue for him after all.
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I really dig the Deep Rift version quite a bit. I believe its her first weapon too that the ink has some color too it (deep rift blue).
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I like quite a few of them. I always gun for the Deep Rift too.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Introduction
As you can probably guess from my name, I'm an Onryō main and have played her consistently since her 2022 release. As a huge lover of the Ring franchise, Sadako Rising was a very special Chapter to me. While her power was underwhelming, I grew to love it and appreciate her niche in the game. I was of the opinion that a few tweaks would maker her feel much better to play (see here). Hence, you can imagine I was thrilled when the news broke that she was going to be adjusted, and eagerly awaited the 7.1.0 PTB to see what was in store.
Unfortunately, I wasn't fond of the direction they took with her power on the PTB, and I wrote a pretty lengthy post dissecting my issues with the rework. She felt slow, clunky, and too at the mercy of survivor actions. After it seemed much of her players agreed that the PTB changes were unfavourable, I was certain they would reassess and pursue other avenues. However, the July 24th Developer Update dropped with the news that the rework was going ahead with, what I thought were, insignificant buffs that would not address her issues. Frustrated, I made a thread expressing my thoughts before actually waiting for the release and testing it on live.
After playing 7.1.0 for a day, I've come to realise that the changes she's received from the PTB are actually very impactful and I jumped the gun with my prior thread. On that note, @Steel_Eyed, you were right -- apologies for being brusque with you yesterday.
I've decided to attempt to more constructively deliver my thoughts in this thread. I'll proceed by laying out what I thought was flawed with her prior to 7.1.0, and whether her changes have resolved the issues.
Problems Solved?
Map traversal from Projection that is hindered by a long cooldown.
- MASSIVELY improved! Lowering the post-Projection TV cooldown to 45 seconds, and reducing the generic Projection cooldown to 10 seconds (was 15 on the PTB) gives her much better map traversal than previously. Projection is much more frequent in a match now.
Stealth from Demanifestation that is nullified by an overbearing lullaby.
- Unfortunately, Demanifestation has not improved at all. Preventing The Onryō from getting stunned while Demanifested is gimmicky and not worthwhile. Survivors have no reason to drop pallets when you're Demanifested because you can't injure them without Manifesting first (which slows you down). It's also much harder to pull off mindgames with Demanifestation in a chase now because of the Reiko's Watch nerf and the fact Demanifesting breaks Bloodlust. Removing chase potential in favour of a pointless stun avoidance is an unwelcome change and has removed opportunities for skill expression.
Tape Transports not being effective at slowing the game down because noone ever interacts with TVs.
- Global Condemnation from Projection means that applying your power is much easier and more consistent. Survivors now either have two choices: take a Tape early to avoid global Condemnation, or focus on objectives now and transport Tapes later after gaining stacks. In the latter situation, significant time is wasted and they risk you interrupting them while they're close to 7 stacks. The former situation has more nuance to it that I'll discuss later.
- Raising the Turn-off cooldown and Tape-play cooldown to 70 seconds is a great change that encourages survivors to actually interact with TVs and waste time. Yes, your TVs are going to be disabled, but in doing so they're putting themselves at risk of being caught out and gaining a quick +2 stacks.
- The ability to insert Tapes at any TV means that the actual moving of a Tape from one location to another takes way less time. On the PTB, when she had longer cooldowns, this hurt her too much. But now I actually don't think it's unreasonable. Save for instances of unlucky RNG which means two TVs spawn essentially next to each other, but that's a problem with spawn logic and not the mechanic itself.
Lethality from Condemnation that virtually never comes into play (without forcing it through old Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing).
- While it's now easier to inflict Condemnation, it's also much easier for survivors to avoid and remove it. So in theory, this change should've been a net neutral. However, I'm finding myself getting way more Condemned kills than ever before. I think there's a little nuance to this so I'll revisit this again below.
A bizarre mix of add-ons that mostly range from useless to mediocre, with one or two that are incredibly powerful.
- Unfortunately her add-on diversity has not improved whatsoever. Once again, I have more to say than just one bullet point so I'll dedicate a section to this specifically.
Tape Transports and Condemned Kills
The Onryō was revealed to have a surprisingly high kill rate in September 2022, despite the fact her basekit was severely undertuned. I gave my thoughts on why that may be here. One of the main arguments I presented was that her kit is multifaceted and hence confusing for newer players and solo queue teams to grapple with. In other words, she stomped inexperienced and casual teams, and her perceived weakness arose when facing competent survivors (particularly SWF groups).
It's early days still but from my experiences so far, her rework seems to have exacerbated the divide between these groups. Matches as and against The Onryō seem go one of three ways now:
- Against 4 inexperienced survivors: The Onryō stomps them with ease. In a surprising amount of matches, survivors are completely failing to manage their Condemnation. I had 2 games yesterday when ALL of the survivors ended up with 7 stacks of Condemnation simultaneously because they never bothered to retrieve or transport Tapes. Then, they all scramble to try and remove Condemned and the whole game falls apart for them. Why are so many survivors not touching Tapes? I have no idea. Perhaps they're unaware of the rework? Maybe they've never encountered Onryō much before given how rare she was? I've seen suggestions that The Onryō is now overtuned for this reason, but I think it's too soon to assess whether she's really too strong or whether survivors just need some time to learn. Time will tell I suppose.
- Against 3 decent survivors and 1 weak one: This is the most common scenario. DbD matchmaking is notoriously bad and in most solo queue matches you're going to have one teammate who is significantly weaker than the rest. Ideally, everyone would be on equal footing but with how MMR currently works, that's rare. In this case, the early game plays fairly typically: The Onryō gets some hooks in, a generator or two pop, and the 3 decent survivors manage their Condemnation. However, that one teammate fails to and ends up getting Condemn killed at 3 generators. And now the match is effectively over for the remaining survivors.
- Against 4 experienced survivors: Against a team who knows what they're doing, the experience is quite the opposite and The Onryō can struggle to get a foothold. Because passive Condemnation no longer applies when holding a Tape, you need to hit them if you want to rack up stacks. Survivors, however, can be in 4 places at once -- The Onryō cannot. Therefore, the best way to counter her is to split up at the start of the match and have everyone grap a Tape. That way, four of her TVs are on cooldown from the get go and everyone is immune to global Condemnation. Of course, someone will inevitably be found and hit, but having +2 stacks on one survivor is preferable to having a couple of stacks on everyone. And as soon as the first survivor goes down, the rest can use the safety of The Onryō carrying and hooking them to quickly deposit their Tapes. The match then proceeds in this fashion, where one survivor is pressured at a time while the rest are safe to focus on objectives.
In this way, I think compared to her pre-7.10 rendition she's:
- Much stronger in the vast majority of matches (against solo teams).
- Slightly weaker against coordinated SWF teams (which are very uncommon to be honest).
To me this seems an acceptable trade-off. I get that it sucks as a survivor to have a matches thrown by one solo teammate but that's not a problem with The Onryō's kit specifically and more a problem with well... solo queue. Plague and Pinhead are very similar in this regard -- teams who fail to coordinate fall apart.
Messy Add-ons
One of the biggest problems with pre-7.10 Onryō is that her add-ons were terrible, with the exception of just three: Iridescent Videotape, Ring Drawing, and Reiko's Watch. The first two were problematic as they elevated her strength exponentially and made it impossible to balance her basekit. The third was well balanced, allowing for additional mindgame opportunities and skill expression.
What most of us hoped for with the add-on pass, was that:
- Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing would be nerfed. ✔️ achieved
- The strength of the aforementioned combo would be redistributed across her kit. ✔️ achieved
- Her lacklustre add-ons would be improved, providing more interesting options and improving build diversity. ❌ failed
Instead, Reiko's Watch was needlessly gutted -- removing an important tool for skill expression and chases -- and most of her reworked add-ons are still terrible. Why does she have TWO blindness add-ons? Why does she have an add-on that inflicts Oblivious when she has a Lullaby that is not supressed by Oblivious? Why are Distorted Photo and Telephone Very Rare when their effects are so diminutive? etc.
Of her post-7.10 add-ons three stand out as being incredibly strong compared to the rest: Iridescent Videotape, Ring Drawing, and (the newly improved) Mother's Comb. Are these add-ons problematic? No, I don't think so. But they're so, SO much better than the rest of her add-ons that you'd seem foolish for running anything else.
A huge complaint about pre-7.10 Onryō was that she was predictable. And she still is. Every Onryō I've played against so far has been running either Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing or Iridescent Videotape and Mother's Comb. Do I think that it's overpowered? No. But variety is the spice of The Fog -- playing as and going against the same builds all of the time gets boring. They need to go back and improve her weaker add-ons so there's not such a massive discrepancy in strength.
Why is it that killers like Blight (who already have a GREAT basekit) are allowed to have almost every add-on be a strong and viable choice but killers like Onryō, Nemesis, and Executioner are left with maybe a couple of good options each?
Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked so I'll leave that there.
Final Thoughts & TL;DR
I realise this is long and I've rambled a lot so thank you for reading this far!
I'm really pleased to say that The Onryō rework seems to be a net positive change, and I can't think of anything else she'd need other than having her add-ons revisited. Her stealth could be improved, but given how much better she is at map traversal and slowdown now, I'm not sure she really needs it.
I'll finish this off with a TL;DR for those of you who (understandably) don't wish to read the above mountain of text. In short, my views on each aspect of her rework are:
- Map traversal: 📈 MUCH better.
- Stealth: 🔄 No net change.
- Chase potential: 📉 A little worse.
- Built-in slowdown: 📈 Better.
- Lethality: 📈 Better.
- Add-ons: ❓️ Need revisiting.
Came here because of the tag. Thank you for saying that. Not many people do that.
I will read through the thread in more detail later today.
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Its been one day but my sense is she is clearly stronger than before and all the players calling wolf on her changes have egg on their face.
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So much for a nerf. I can tell yall I had a blast playing her today. Didn’t use any of the cheese being described here either.
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@BarnesFlam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493064#Comment_3493064
No. There was nothing telling us otherwise. I don't know why people expected that.
I’m pretty sure they stated that skins would return next year.
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People are going to be talking about the Deep Rift outfits like this one day.
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The popular streamer for Sadako is having a blast right now. Haven’t had a chance to play this evening yet but expecting a good time.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491605#Comment_3491605
I did not enjoy her pre-mid patch
Then this thread isn't directed to you.
Weak stance. I attempted to give you some feedback. Guess OP is suffering and can’t think. So distraught.
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I still play Hillbilly, Deathslinger, Spirit, Nurse. I have suffered many many nerfs and I usually walk away feeling they made sense for the era they were made in. Maybe not initially but they are still heavily in my rotation because they are actually favorites of mine.
Onryo is probably going through the same thing now. And I would not say she is being changed ‘for some reason.’
I did not enjoy her pre-mid patch as there was a lot of cheese built into her strongest playstyles. The most popular Onryo player played with the same two add ons and slugged survivors out as a strategy encouraged by the game/addons.
I would have a hard time empathizing with players defending that. The rework makes a ton of sense in that it no longer isolates single survivors and provides map wide pressure. Survivors would often play whole matches without ever having to touch a tape. It breaks killer players dependency on a handful of addons.
On a few fronts this rework makes sense.
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Bond and Reassurance are mainstays for me on survivor. My other two perks adjust based on build:
- Made For This & Deja Vu
- Hyperfocus & Stake Out
- Quick and Quiet & Head On
On killer I really like using STBFL on most m1 killers.
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Can’t wait to play her personally. I stopped playing her since they announced her rework because why bother practicing the old version of her.
The nerfs to her are not overshadowing the basekit buffs shes getting imo.
They have broken her dependency on certain add ons. They have also made condemn map wide, teleportation a more frequent process (massive buff here that was unexpected), addressed two exploits found in the PTB (slugging taped survivors and holding tapes). In a way encouraged her hit and run style like other stealth killers.
I am personally happier because of this. The condemn is not a guessing game anymore. Or require Gearhead or Discordance or Call of Brine.
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I do not hack; the TTVs I’ve played have oddly been accusing me of havking.
Its annoying that people, who obviously forgot how scratch marks work, are quick to the hacker excuse to explain their misplays.
But yeah OP. Survivors don’t get sacrificed on first hook so take a video and report.
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Still not useable in chase so fundamentally flawed.
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“It’s the person not the killer.” Lol.
Skull Merchant is the only killer that punishes survivors for doing generators by design. The drones causes a one hit down. Then to remove her drone, she suffers no penalty. She returns even quicker by design and replaces the lost drone by design.
To OP: of course she’s brainlessly fun because the killer player no longer has to compete.
Its the killers design and BHVRs fault. Of course players are going to want to play with the most unfair options available. We can try to convince OP or any other player that it’s not worth playing a match against that killer regardless of skill level but the history of this game shows that players always gravitate to these kinds of playstyles. Often because of the criticisms.
Prayer Beads Spirit. Forever Freddy. Forever Mend Legion. Instasaw Hillbilly. BHVR was told how unfair this was and it took streamers basically doing a collective news report to garner any attention.
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@jajay119 said:
The easiest way to fix her is to ensure she can't put a drone up in an area that overlaps with that of a drone that been deactivated for 'x' seconds. If this cooldown were added it would make her much more bearable and not change how she plays too much for those who like her.
I agree this may be a solution.
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490597#Comment_3490597
She already can't do that.
The game just flat out locks you out of dropping a drone in a way that makes it overlap an area with a drone in where it is in active mode or search mode.
Now if you're talking about making it so she can't place a drone down in a spot where one was just hacked, that's going to basically mess her up for those of us who are playing her and not 3 genning, but alternate between dropping drones mid chase and dropping drones to get undetectable in specific areas. Please understand that literally her entire character function is in her drones and without being able to freely use them she legit has no power.
Maybe give it another read. I think you misunderstood jajay.
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Vanity Mirror is my favorite build on him.
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Wouldn’t be shocked if we get a developer update today or tomorrow. They even been communicating really well recently.
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In my opinion Fire Up buff would be making it start with 10% instead of 0% for the four attributes it enhances. Then each token buffs it by 2% until 20%.
It might even be meta.
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I did notice most of these are single pieces given out in tomes.
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Harsher DC penalties for sure.
My opinion on DC bots is if all survivors quit and the killer is left with only AI bots, it should be an automatic win for the killer and the match can end.
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I often strafe sideways when prepping a dash slam. The limited rotation he can swing in is offset by strafing sideways. It opens up that left/right to a wider angle.
Its hard to word but I have been strafing since he was released and found him easy to slam survivors even on console.
Another tip is bring Brutal Strength. It’s a counter to pre dropping survivors. Like Clown.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485108#Comment_3485108
Only way Twins' blight outfit can't be a lost cause is if their rework somehow allows for Victor customization.
Victor customization is not going to happen.
When that day comes, if it does, it opens up a ton of custom options. Hillbilly’s chainsaw. Trappers traps. Oni’s kanobo. BHVR has expressly said they are against this in the past.
Maybe the newer team members will open this doorway for us. We all want Victor with a top hat.
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No one knows. The time limited cosmetics is a very new idea for DBD. Christmas in July could very well have no connection to the store locked Christmas cosmetics.
Last year there was a Hillbilly outfit that did not get released. I wonder if this collection is for that.
Personally, I would love to get a shot at the survivor outfits we missed half a year ago, now, with Iri shards. My expectation is we will have to wait.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485059#Comment_3485059
There was someone who played Wraith vs a pro team on an Hens video I believe (and he was a beast, he also claimed to not have lost any game since patch 6.1)
Very cool video. And very different results from when Tru3 played against a Pro (Ayruns?) SWF a few years back.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485040#Comment_3485040
If they can't make Victor blighted as well, they might as well not even make a blight skin for The Twins.
I think this is a problem for Twins. Maybe if they do not Blight the mid section of Charlotte it won’t be too out of place carrying Victor about. Or really blight up the inside of her chest may work as well.
It is a conundrum.
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Wraith definitely has all the ingredients that our no questions asked S-tier killers have.
Wraith can:
- Traverse the map quickly
- Hit survivors while traversing the map quickly
In addition to his surprise factor. The two bullets above also make him an effective tunneler. His addons are very strong as well with good variety in his abilities and number adjustments to his power.
I would leave him unchanged and my eyebrows always raises when a pro player says Wraith is weak.
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I think survivor speed up perks are breaking multiple killers rn. Otherwise, pretty much since last years July mid patch killer has been in the best spot.
Made For This and Hope completely annihilate too many killers. Scratched Mirror Myers is total garbage now.
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Pretty much guaranteed to buy any Blighted Killer Skin released.
I would like the older unblighted killers to get one. I think at this point it’s mostly Deathslinger and Twins. Personally I am a big Artist and Knight fan. So those as well.
They have really slowed their Blighted skin releases down these last few years though.
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Does the totem still reveal itself at that point? That'd be an extra problem if it does.
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Made For This breaks his power.
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I am willing to play any killer. Seeing the prestige levels post rework really shows who I choose to play more often though.
- Trapper
- Wraith
- Hillbilly
- Oni
- Deathslinger
- Artist
- Knight
These are my highest prestiges (all 18+). Then I have varying prestiges levels below that. None of my killers are lower than P10.
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Going off memory but about 2500.
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The window block has been really good against vaulting killers like Mastermind and Legion.
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Double checked, it doesn’t say it wasn’t programmed to sacrifice either (double negative).
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477414#Comment_3477414
People complain about matchmaking all the time but when queues were 10 minutes everyone was telling the devs they’d rather have unfair matches with 2 minute queues than fair ones with 10.
If they change this the complaints wouldn’t stop, they’d just switch topics.
This is something the community should not forget.
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I have not been convinced that it’s killer or survivor sided yet. It does not appear to be a lot of connected strong loops.
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@Ricardo170373 said:
V. Virtual Goods
The Game may, from time to time, feature virtual goods. Virtual goods include but are not limited to virtual items (characters, accessories, items such as “character customization”, power-ups), points, credits, tokens and currency (collectively, “Virtual Goods”) for use in the Game.
You may “earn” Virtual Goods within the Game or we may allow you to “purchase” Virtual Goods with “real money” or virtual currencies. Certain Virtual Goods in the Game may be unavailable if not purchased.
Virtual Goods (such as virtual currency) purchased on other platforms such as Steam®, PlayStation®, or Xbox® will be subject to those platforms’ terms and conditions. Please review those platforms’ terms and conditions for further information before completing your purchase. BHVR does not control how you can pay or how refunds may be issued on those platforms. When you make a payment through a third-party platform, you are agreeing to the third party’s payment terms, and BHVR is not a party to the transaction.
Virtual Goods are licensed to you, not sold. You do not own the Virtual Goods, and you acknowledge and agree that all Virtual Goods represent a limited, personal, nonexclusive, non-transferable, non-assignable and fully revocable license to use the Virtual Goods, for your individual, non-commercial, entertainment purposes only. You have no right, title, interest, or ownership in or to any Virtual Goods. We may terminate your license at any time and at our sole discretion.
This section mentioned virtual good. i understand if BHVR want remove any things, DLC, from the entire game not just the store, they can do it? we just pay to access the content and if will remove it, we just dont have more that content?
It’s mostly because some individuals who put little thought into their lawsuits in the past think that because they paid $10 for a skin, they own the skin instead of effectively just licensing the use of it. The paragraphs above read of the legalise needed to describe that problem to prevent it.
Of course, as always, we are welcome to quit the game if there’s a disagreement about who actually owns these products when auric cells are bought.
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Hillbilly. But thing is, I spend points on who I earned it with. So turns out Oni is who I play with the most since the Prestige rework last year. Followed by:
- Hillbilly
- Wraith
- Trapper
- Artist
- Knight
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I do not trust ‘farming’ killers. I think we all end up in situations like this.
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I’m convinced Singularity is fine right now. Don’t know what they could buff further at this point.
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I’ve been having a good time with him frankly. I am only P10 though; twenty-five though? Probably just burnt out, period.
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I think the one change that would fix her PTB version is tapes do not prevent teleport condemn. It’s pure risk (of condemn on hit) to reduce the stacks. Voila.
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I really enjoy Singularity now. Sometimes it feels stressful dealing with the cameras but I four kill often.
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What? Singularity isn't horror? Knight's pretty frightening when a guard pops in on a survivor. Wesker is literally from Resident Evil. I'm not tracking the last four chapters thing.
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I think this thread is also forgetting that hooking a survivor with a tape condemns the other survivors as well.
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We don’t even know if transporting tapes reduces the stacks yet. It may be that the condemn is more fixed.