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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1790704#Comment_1790704
Everyone else died, you didn't finish the gens, have a petty escape.
Everyone else escaped, the gates are opened, have a petty kill.
Seems pretty close to me.
Except you have to earn that kill with a chase AND let others escape (trade off). You don't need to work for the hatch or make a trade off.
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@MadLordJack said:
Isn't the killers version of hatch just endgame facecamping?
No because it's a trade off. You secure one kill and let the others escape.
You have to bring those, they aren't free.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Allow me to tell you have to verse a Pyramid Head.
Pre-drop pallets and run. That's it. He has no mobility, so he has to catch up to you like every other killer. If he's too close, then try to bait a ranged attack so you can use the time he's on cooldown to reach another tile. He is an absolute chasing monster because his kit is pretty much designed to always get a hit if you try to loop him normally.
And I'm sorry, but the way this is worded sounds really entitled. The reason you gave was, "I realized I never had an easy time against a Pyramid Head." That just sounds like, "My usual tricks don't work, so the killer is busted." No, the counterplay is a bit different from normal killers. If you're up against a decent Pyramid Head and try to loop him normally, he's going to down you very fast.
This. Too many survivors don't want to adapt. I came back a month ago after not playing since before Plague. I had a bunch of new killers to deal with and got rekt. I didn't cry for nerfs, I went on YT to learn how they play and see how they can be tackled.
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@Kaiju said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1780869#Comment_1780869
How is Hope and Adrenaline second chance perks lol They reward u for doing the objective unlike NOED, and NM and SS? haha u are funny. And if the killers has at least a braincell won't fall for a flashlight save.
If you are downed and adrenaline pops, don't you get back up? That would be a 2nd chance. As killer your objective after gens are done is to prevent escape so you haven't failed just yet.
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I used to main killer. I've been playing a lot more survivor lately though as it is indeed much more relaxing xD
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Survivor mains like to pretend that tunneling is not a legit mechanic and needs anything to be done about it at all. You've been given perks to help like DS and BT. The point is that you must use a perk slot for tunneling protection. This is intended as you are not owed that protection.
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@Waterfall said:
Short version of this post “ Me and my SWF usually have an easy time against killers but Pyramid Head actually gives us a challenge please nerf him”. Just saved everyone some time.
Lol basically. Any killer that isn't one where basic looping is the only tactic needed gets called for a nerf. Imagine having to use *gasp* other strategies! Not only that but imagine using other perks than DS for a change! It's about time a killer comes along that can make these meta perks less effective (DS and BT). PH is exactly the killer the game needs.
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So basically you want all killers to have the same counterplay?
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779683#Comment_1779683
Yeah sometimes I like to play the support role on my team so I'll run a build that improves healing and the like. But what's so frustrating is that even if I do well at healing others and cleansing totems, if I don't manage to also get into a chase with the killer and do a lot of gens, then the game sees that as a failure and gives me a pitiful amount of blood points. It sucks!
Ya the rank/BP system is trash. I'm sure we've all had those survivor games where the killer gets stomped. Gens fly, no hooks, no chases and you escape in 6 mins only to safety pip at best...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779702#Comment_1779702
A few weeks ago on EU-Servers, you had wait times of 10+ minutes for Killer. This was also the period of time where the DC-penalty was disabled, meaning you can wait 10+ minutes in a queue just to have some dude DC at 5 Gens so that the game is basically over and you win without any effort.
Also, you might end up on Servers outside of EU, meaning that you have 130 Ping at least (if you were lucky) or up to 300 Ping. So I played Survivor during that time, because queues were instant (which they are still over daytime), because if I end up on a bad Server, I can simply requeue or if someone DCs, I was not bothered that much.
I watched Scorpionz (who is also on EU) suffer from the same problems, he was playing The Binding of Isaac during wait times. I, myself, used those times to read a book, up to a point where I rather play Killer to get more reading time and played DBD as side amusement.
And even longer ago, there were even times where you had super-long queue times as Killer when you were at Rank 1. But only Rank 1, if you were Rank 2, you got short queue times.
Currently, for me, Killer Queues are like 1-2 minutes (which is faster over the day) and Survivor queues are instant (which they are always over the day). In the evening it switches, Survivor like 2-3 minutes (which is normal) and Killer instant (normal as well).
The same can be seen on other Servers that the Wait Time switches basically instantly at some point.
EDIT: I am also pretty sure that at some point Killer Queues will be long again.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779642#Comment_1779642
I mean, it is logical that Killer is the harder role, but neither Killer or Survivor are hard in general. But you should expect that the "1" in the "1v4" has to do more. And this is how it should be.
If Killer would be the easier role, there would be no point for playing Survivor (at least Solo), because Killer would be the easier role, with more BPs (aka Rewards) and more variety.
I never said any of that wasn't the case but based on your 1st paragraph, you seem to be downplaying the fact that killer is more stressful. That's why OP has long Q times; less people want to play the harder role.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779554#Comment_1779554
No I said, it's a waste of a Survivor's time to cleanse totems when dealing with Ruin and Undying.
Nowhere did I say that Ruin and Undying gives anything to the Killer player for free.
The perks come at the cost of half your build and not only can be played around, but require you, as the Killer, to be able to pressure Survivors.
"The problem is that cleansing totems with Ruin and Undying gives the Killer free pressure because you're not doing gens while they're chasing your teammates."
Those are your exact words. Since survivors are "wasting time" on totems, the killer is getting free pressure according to those words. The totems are only an issue because as you said, they used half their build on R+U. That time wasting came at a cost of 2 perk slots, hence it is not free. The whole point of the build is to waste time by forcing cleansing or by regression when getting pushed off of gens.
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Ya i always run bbq on killer. WGLF isn't as reliable unfortunately. Used to always run it as well but would often get 0 stacks unless I go out of my way to camp for a save before teammates and take protection hits. WGLF needs a buff.
Still though, killer deserves the most points.
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If they unhook before I can leave and there's no obsession then yes I will down the injured guy. No reason to accept an unsafe unhook, punish it. But I don't go out of my way to tunnel either. Basically I just play and go after whoever makes sense at the time while keeping in mind BT and DS.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I just love it how everyone now starts again with "Killer is sooooo stressful" or "big balance issues". But when a fewn weeks ago Killer Queues were HORRIBLY long (like, way longer than Survivor Queues currently), nobody said anything.
If Killer is stressful for you, that is a you-problem. It is easier than ever and if I see what Survivor Teammates I get (second day in a row where I got a David in my Team who started looking for Hatch with 2 Gens to go while 3 Survivors are left aka it did not become visible yet...), everyone should capitalize from those players.
@Topic:
If you are on PC, you can try to disable Crossplay. Especially Console seems to bring in a lot of Survivors but almost no Killers (Console-Killers also might just turn off Crossplay to have easier games against Console Survivors only, since they still get instant Queue Times), so this might help, depending on the Region you are in.
Of course this is also not really a Balance Problem, it is a optimization problem, getting Lags after 15 seconds of chasing because Bloodlust kicks in is simply bad. So understandable why Console-Killers dont really like to play with that optimization.
Regardless of Q times, killer objectively has more pressure on them.
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@Unseen_Force said:
You can help by playing killer more. Thats really the only thing that would help. Game needs more purple and red rank killers
I'm working on it. I'm at rank 9 so far after being sent back to 17 or so. Haven't played in almost 2 yrs until recently. Honestly though, I'm playing a lot more survivor since my return. It's more relaxing lol. I was at rank 1 but I believe the rank system has changed since then.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
I'm not gonna say Spirit does or does not need a nerf, but how about we focus more on addressing the huge power disparity between SWF and solo queue before we go around nerfing any Killer?
I don't think she needs to be weakened when there are basically two levels of play that any Killer goes up against; one that can combat Spirit and the other that can't. We should bring those two groups together and then adjust her, or potentially don't adjust her, accordingly.
Exactly this. They need to just add text chat and more auras for survivors and rebalance the game from there. That emulates the info survivors in discord have with all the extra info they can share.
Won't happen though because that doesn't generate $$$ for the work involved.
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@Ribbles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779383#Comment_1779383
No one said it wasn't "valid". We are saying it is UNFUN and FRUSTRATING and causes people to NOT WANT PLAY ANYMORE.
When the quoted person put quotes around 'valid' it implies that it's not valid or at least not a good argument.
I've been tunneled and then face camped to death on first hook recently. Ya it sucks but that's the game. It's up to the others to punish them and do gens. If they just circle the hook then the killer made the right play.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779373#Comment_1779373
I didn't say it was free pressure for the Killer.
The whole point of using Ruin and Undying is to help slow down the rate at which generators get done. If someone's cleansing totems, they're not doing gens and the perks are helping you.
In your 1st paragraph you say R+U gives the killer free pressure because you are doing totems and not gens while your mate gets chased. Killer spent 2 perk slots for that so it's not free. Once cleansed, the killer has 2 perks.
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@DeliciousFood said:
Tunnelling is what mediocre/unconfident killers resort to if they find the game too hard, which is funny, given how simple this silly game is.
More experienced killers will tunnel if they are in a VERY tight spot versus a very strong team.
But don't kid yourselves, o' righteous killers outing it as a 'valid strategy' no matter the context, you are either quite subpar for the rank you are in or messed up royally to have to believe you /need/ to tunnel. Rare are the super squads that make it an imperative, most of the time you're just crapping on the experience of solos who individually outplay you.
What makes tunneling not a valid strategy? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not valid.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1779209#Comment_1779209
The problem is that cleansing totems with Ruin and Undying gives the Killer free pressure because you're not doing gens while they're chasing your teammates.
That's assuming the Killer let's you do totems because they don't have mobility or because they don't care - remember that they can see auras everytime someone comes near any totem. If they interrupt you, because they do have mobility and care about defending totems, you literally just wasted time - you'd have been better off Self-Caring in a corner because you'd at least get points.
The best thing you can to cleanse the totems is find both Hexes first and then cleanse one and then the other. That's still forcing you to spend a ton of time searching for totems though and potentially have you cleanse three Hexes to remove one effect.
Yea, it's not a gigantic deal on Killers without mobility or a power that can quickly end chases; but against a decently good mobility Killer you'll basically just lose if you cleanse totems.
The real counter to Undying is counter to what Survivors expect it to be - what they need to do is to ignore totems and split up on gens. Even Nurse and Blight can't be in multiple places at once; 3 simultaneous Tinkerer activations is the way to beat the build.
The issue with this is that the only people capable of this kind of coordination are SWF.
A solo queue Survivor - even if they understand all the above - can't control their teammates. They can't stop Nancy from cleansing dull totems and Self-Caring. Or Bill from pre-throwing God Pallet and then getting mindgamed while it's still up. Or Felix from getting downed right in front of a 70% gen.
If even ONE of their four teammates plays like that, it gives the Killer a big advantage - and all four of the Survivors can be like that, each wondering what the heck is going on.
Undying and Ruin aren't oppressive in and of themselves, but they contribute to pre-existing scenarios that were already a little busted. They're that last straw, not the entire weight.
It's not free pressure if it costs 2 perk slots.
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Agreed
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@Ribbles said:
Tunnelling killers should get a massive penalty the same way surivvors get penalized for unsafe hooks. This way these idiots will regress to purple and green ranks and I won't have to go against them anymore. At this point I just DC if I get tunnelled even after I DS them. It is incredibly unfun and frustrating and makes me not want to play the game anymore. So far I am up to a 30 min ban, probably will be 1 hour after the next one. Maybe if i get banned enough I can finally stop playing this game for good.
That doesn't make any sense. The reason you are punished for unsafe unhooks is because you can get tunneled. That's on you. As killer why would they not go for the weak guy who was just unhooked 10m from him? It is simply the best play to make. Also tunneling, while unfun for you, is still a legit strategy to get kills quickly and survivors have perks to counter this. Use them. It's like saying survivors should be punished for doing gens too fast. You should not be punished for doing your obj too effectively.
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DS is only balanced because it uses a perk slot. Once it's base kit, it's a straight buff for survivors. Like it or not, tunneling is a strategy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that there should be a free built in counter.
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I think survivors need to stop being so entitled. Their job is to kill and tunneling gets it done quicker. I play mostly survivor these days (used to main killer) and got tunneled the other day. Gens were flying (I solo Q) and he needed a kill. I can't blame him for this. Stop acting like they owe you a certain amount of play time before killing you.
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I feel like it's just a nerf to m1 killers. When I play killer, I play Blight, Spirit and Executioner so no changes for me. I rarely get BL1 and never BL2/3.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1764855#Comment_1764855
But sometimes you ddint earn it. If matchmaking sticks you with the rank 18 noob, its a 3v1 game basicly. However, they guy that you didn´t catch several times and is still unhooked while you got all others have not earned it why?
It might be true if you play vs. swf, but solo is a lot more unrelieble, and a lot of variables you have no control over lead to you winning or losing without having earned anything (on both sides).
I play solo survivor most of the time, but i do play killer. I actually never slug for the 4k, instead i just hook the 3rd and race the last one for the hatch, which works well in the majority of games, and dosen´t waste further time in a game i won anyway.
You always earn your win/loss as killer as you can't be carried nor dragged down since you're solo. So what if they have a noob? You still beat them and therefore deserve the win. Do we take away wins in sports when a player on the other team gets injured? That logic doesn't make sense.
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Agreed. Especially as someone who plays Blight a lot, most indoor maps suck. We should be able to see what the map is before starting so we can plan and remove map offerings. They are only used to sway advantage.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
And please, quit with bullshit that the game isn't supposed to be played with communication.
If that really was like that, SWF feature wouldn't have been implemented or deleted long ago, but here we are.
And yet there's no built in way for communication. SWF have to do it with 3rd party apps. Solo Q has nothing, no text chat and no VoIP. Also there's a bunch of perks that are useless with comms. The game isn't balanced for comms. That said, they need to just add ways for solos to chat and rebalance from there. You can never have solo and SWF both be balanced otherwise.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
Most people who play enough killer would feel they outplayed your team to the last two players, so slugging for the hatch is what they have to do to finish the job.
That being said, as much as you experience it, killers don’t like slugging for the hatch. In their opinion, the hatch may be a broken outdated mechanic that rewards gameplay (yeah just gameplay) whether the team performed well or terribly. They just feel like it’s another annoying obstacle to the game they should actually get the 4K for.
This. I only do it if I have a rough idea of where the last guy is, otherwise I don't waste my time and begin the 50/50 race for hatch. It's pretty dumb that I gotta use these tactics though since I earned the 4k. You fail your obj, you should lose.
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I think Nurses Calling since they won't know you're within range when invisible and will continue to heal.
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Ya it's annoying but the problem is that you will probably depip and go further down the ranks where less skilled people are. Then this will happen more often.
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I mean.. I think you answered your own question.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762081#Comment_1762081
Because chases are the only thing that keeps most people playing DbD, and killers with no counterplay remove chases. And yeah, these killers have no counterplay. You aren't getting outplayed, because there's no play you can make. It's just get spotted, get hit, hold W.
If that's how your games are going then you need to get better vs those killers. Just because you get destroyed, doesn't mean there's no counter play. Literally every killer has been beaten but you act like it never happens.
Watch good players on YT and learn. I know I have been. Been playing more survivor since returning to the game, got rekt by new killers that I haven't played before and didn't whine about it because there's things to learn.
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@TwistedJoke65 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762048#Comment_1762048
I don't wanna put in so much time and effort grinding for a killer I'm never going to play
I believe they're telling you that it's faster to level the killer than grind the shards, even if you won't play that killer. I'd save shards to buy killers or DLC perks. Bought Blight during the Halloween event. Good use of shards.
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@Slay___ said:
I am guessing its mostly because of the platform choice.
They are correctly using the beta feature provided there.
And having separate library item brings licencing issues for the platform in use. Would be a hassle to issue, revoke and reissue it. Not really sure how to keep it there permanently and out of the 2k games that I own in Steam I have only seen one game which have both live and test builds permanently attached in library.
Haven't personally tested PTB build in a long time but anti-cheat and pirating could be some minor issues for having file access outside of testing period.
How is it a correct use of beta? When you have a full release you don't go back to beta.
R6 siege uses a separate branch before each season update so you can have both test branch and main game installed at the same time. It works nicely.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761750#Comment_1761750
I misread nothing. The OP was pointing out unhealthy killers, you heavily implied that their idea of a "healthy" killer is one that survivors can bully, I gave a handful of killers with unique and strong powers that support the OP's argument.
He is implying that different = unhealthy. He seems to not want killers that force survivors to diverge from the usual gameplay. What is the problem with killers having different counterplay to the usual looping? The 3 killers he gave as examples show this. You can't simply loop them like you would wraith because you would get hit with something. This does not make them too strong it makes them different. This variety is needed.
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You don't play killer do you?
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751749#Comment_1751749
Blight, Billy, Oni and Huntress are all examples of killers with very strong, unique powers but reasonable counterplay.
You and others misread what I said. I'm saying that there would be no point to killers all being basically the same in response to OP. I'm not saying that's how it actually is now.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1752827#Comment_1752827
By 'healthy' you mean generic m1 killers that play the same as any other? What would be the point of 22 killers the require the same tactics to beat?
Correct me if I'm wrong here but a huntress on good connection- that part being important- is often regarded as one of the most balanced killers. She has a powerful ranged attack but lacks map pressure as a result. She has a smaller terror radius but a 40m humming you can't remove. Her ability is strong but can only be reloaded at certain points on the map. It's only when the ping goes horribly wrong that people take serious issues with her.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong again, but you don't play vs huntress like you do every other killer.
Well Ya i agree but what does that have to do with what I said?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751749#Comment_1751749
I wouldn't call huntress an M1 killer but go off sis
I never said she was?
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By 'healthy' you mean generic m1 killers that play the same as any other? What would be the point of 22 killers the require the same tactics to beat?
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@Xavier22 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751471#Comment_1751471
1 escape for the survivors is still a win for the killer though. The mindset killers have is that they need to get 4ks every game to "win" when in reality a 3k is a win because you killed more people than survived. And it's not a free escape because you have to find hatch before each other it's not like the suvrivor just knows where hatch is and escaped through it every match in 1v1 situations.
I didn't say a 3k is not a win for killer. The point is that they still earned the 4th. The killer gets no bail out for failing his primary objective. Hatch is a free escape because when survivors fail their objective they get a hatch as an easier second objective and have a chance to win in a 50/50 race to find the hatch. Why shouldn't the last survivor be killed if they failed their obj?
I haven't paid attention but I also assume killer misses out on blood points for not getting that last hook/kill? And possibly denied a second pip?
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@Hopesfall said:
I don't really understand why if I turn it off, I can't be matched with other Xbox players that have it on? Why do both sides require it to be turned off to matchmake? Has a dev ever explained what the tech limitation there is?
Well if you and another guy join a lobby and he has x-play on and you don't, then you will extend Q times for him since your setting makes it a no x-play match.
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@Xavier22 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1749550#Comment_1749550
The hatch should most definitely not go. If it does 1v1 situations in endgame will be close to impossible to escape unless they make gate spawns ALWAYS on opposing sides of the map which would be too hard for killer. Hatch is like the happy medium.
Yes maybe 1v1 is impossible to escape but it starts as a 4v1. If the killer managed to get it down to a 1v1 and survivors did not get all the gens, why do they get a free win anyway? When the killer does bad and gets no kills at the end, do killers get a free kill anyway?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hiding is boring. I want to run and be chased. As killer, I enjoy outperforming a survivor with mind-games. From killer perspective, I also hate looking for survivors, which is why I play as Legion. I'm not wasting my time looking through every bush on Dead Dawg. Yes, holding 'W' can be "boring", but that's only a problem on a select few maps. Most maps, and generic tiles have opportunities for both sides.
Looping also more than just running around a block of wood, or jumping through a window. It's about pathing, and understanding your opponent. Survivors who can think outside of the box, and chain together tiles, and lose the killer by taking unique pathing (not being predictable) stand out from the rest. Bonus points if you can do it without using a single pallet.
tldr: stealth is boring af
No ur boring! >:(
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1749759#Comment_1749759
Sure she has a learning curve, but in the context of video games in general demanding a certain amount of mechanical skill from the player, it's pretty low. Were not exactly on the same level as something like sekiro, Melee Fox or Doom Eternal here, DbD is a very simple game and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a big reason as to why it's so popular.
And the main reason you don't see nurse often anymore is because people think she's not good anymore following the rework, and they can no longer spam blinks or rely on her completely busted add-ons anymore. The rework definitely made her a bit harder but honestly it didn't do that much.
Why are we talking about other games suddenly? OP is asking about noob friendly killers in dbd. So with respect to other killers in this game, nurse is def not noob friendly and takes a lot longer to master than other killers. You also don't want to learn the game with her as she plays by different rules than other killers. Furthest from noob friendly as you can get.
Even before this rework you didn't see 100% nurse so your reason is def not it.
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Watch YT vids from Truetalent or Monto and see what they do. Also slugging is not toxic. It's a viable strategy to add pressure and chase more important targets.
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You act like survivors don't try to escape as quick as possible with their keys, toolboxes etc. The whole point is to win. If you guys couldn't provide enough resistance to lengthen the game, that's on you guys. Especially given the number of time wasting perks you are given.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1749541#Comment_1749541
She isn't. You hold a button to charge a teleport and move in the direction you're looking based on how much you held the button, going through walls and other obstacles. What's so mechanically difficult about this? I do play/played a bunch of Nurse, and playing her was not difficult at all for me. I also remember watching critikal play DbD and he has the same opinion that Nurse was pretty easy to use. I'm sorry to burst your bubble by saying this but her difficulty is so incredibly overrated imo.
You are not bursting any bubble. It is well known that nurse is the best killer and also the most difficult to master. Look at any killer tier list; Nurse is always at the top. So why then, doesn't everyone play nurse? Because of the learning curve.
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I agree but the hatch should also go as well. Both are ways of avoiding the objective for a quick win.