Starshadw
Starshadw
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1853289#Comment_1853289
The biggest problem is, that the game isn´t balanced around SWF. Because for whatever reason, the devs treat it as if no one would play SWF.
The game was never designed with all the information or coordination in mind, a SWF team could reach.
Eh, I can't agree with this. Why? Because one of the main arguments I've heard on dev streams when survivors make a complaint about something are statements like, "well, then you should have been running X perk." The only way a team of survivors could cover most/all bases with perks would be if they were a team coordinating in chat. The fact that devs' answer to complaints is that someone should have been running x perk tells me they want/expect survivors to be able to coordinate perks before a match.
And a lot of SWF doesn't even go into that level of coordination - a lot of SWF is just four friends playing together, using whatever perks they like.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852157#Comment_1852157
That doesn't mean the door is closed on the topic. Developers often have to iterate on changes until they get it right.
Given the fact that it would be possible to implement similar mechanics to prevent survivor abuse, I would hope the devs would revisit the issue.
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Games like these - on both sides - are just not fun. When most of us are waiting in the matchmaking queue for 10+ minutes, we want to actually get to play and enjoy the game, not find ourselves in and out of a match and back in another 10+ minute queue in less than five minutes.
This is why I wish our concept of "win" conditions were different. If the focus was more on accruing bloodpoints and enjoying the game, and less about sacrifice/escape, I think we'd all be a lot happier.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
So 10 games in a row tonight, and every single one: A single survivor is facecamped or tunneled to death at 5 gens. Why? Seriously, I legit want to know what is going on? For weeks this has been happening and it's getting really old fast. And before anyone chimes in about 'Camping is legit, etc, etc'. Yes, it is. But at 5 gens? I just really want to know why are people doing this? It's like they just decide at the match start they've lost instantly. And it's not exactly entertaining for the poor survivor stuck up there for 2 minutes, or left to bleedout for 4 minutes. Yeah, the rest can gen rush, which I personally do. I won't feed a killer but it still stands that the survivor stuck in this situation has just had their time completely wasted in queuing up and entering the match. Personal opinion: Things need to change because I already abandoned killer and I'm close to doing it for survivor honestly. I used to enjoy this game, even when things were a mess of bullying, or camping, but this just isn't fun anymore.
Just because something is "legit" doesn't means it's not toxic and poor sportsmanship.
In terms of possible mechanical solutions - implement a loss of bloodpoints if a Killer stays near a hooked survivor. That would help mitigate or even eliminate both facecamping and proxy camping, depending on the radius of the circle around the hooked survivor. If the player knew that standing there at the hook would cost them 100 bloodpoints every second, they'd be less likely to do so. Heck, they could do the same for slugged survivors - so a Killer who decides to facecamp/proxycamp a slugged survivor could suffer the same loss of bloodpoints.
There ARE possible mechanical solutions for most of the toxic behavior in the game, it's just a matter of whether the devs want to implement them.
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@shalo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1836712#Comment_1836712
Way back in tome 1, before the DC penalty, there was a challenge "Six Feet Under: Sacrifice 4 Survivors in the basement within in a single trial", the number of survivors simply DCing after any basement kill was of epidemic proportions so it was right about then that Killers found out that denying Killers challenges and pips was part of the Survivors fun.
I'm not sure it's solely that. Yes, there are players (both survivors and killers) who take pleasure in being absolute jerks. But there are also certain mechanics and tactics in game that survivors and killers hate. Basement hooks is one of those things, as is flashlight blinding (moris and keys are two more that are detested). All too often, basement hooks = basement camping, and it flat-out ruins a match (especially when it happens early) and even holds a game hostage because the remaining players have to decide whether to just leave a teammate to die (and that's one player whose game experience is ruined for the match) or whether to attempt to rescue and risk 2 or more people ending up in the basement, thereby ruining even more people's experience for the match.
This is one of my big issues with the Tome challenges - many times, they encourage toxic behavior in order to complete. I'd love to see future Tome challenges that encourage good sportsmanship.
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I'll just mention it again - devs need to take a look at Killer DC rates. Killers that aren't fun to play against, to the point where people DC out of the game, should be looked at to figure out how to correct the situation.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1830210#Comment_1830210
What's a badly designed killer ?
I do wish they would take a good look at DC stats for each Killer. I played against a lot of Doctors this weekend, and in every single match, we had at least one player deliberately DC (and yes, it was obvious by the timing that it was deliberate and not an actual DC). That screams (pun intended) that folks simply don't like playing against the Doctor, which tells me he needs to be re-worked. If people are choosing to DC out of your game because of something, that should be a huge red flag that something is wrong with the game. I suspect there are a few other Killers who also have high DC stats.
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@Rydog said:
Not every group that you think is SWF, is actually SWF. Also, all the things you described sound like normal play, in terms of how to apply the perks and tactics you are describing. If I'm using Balanced Landing, I'm probably gonna be hanging around hills. If I know you're nearby, I'm gonna wait until your TR kicks in so that I can trigger Borrowed Time. If I can body block for a teammate, I am going to body block. SWF doesn't impact those things.
Survivors are awarded points for protection shots, so I don't see how Killers can complain about it. We're supposed to do it. Actual body-blocking is when one survivor pins another so that they can't move or leave a room/area. I wish people would stop confusing the two.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
What’s the complaint here? You got 2 kills
I think this goes to the heart of a lot of issues with the game on both survivor and Killer sides, which is the game and devs not talking more about what constitutes a good game, and what a "win" looks like on both sides.
This had led to folks assuming the following win conditions: "if I don't get 4 kills, I lost the match" and "If I don't escape, I lost the match." Everyone in the above match made decent bloodpoints (anything under about 11k ,whether it's survivor or killer, is always a warning to me that something went wonky with the match), and that, to me, constitutes a win on both sides.
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@KingFrost said:
I have 5 killer challenges I can't complete because I suck at Billy and Blight. And survivors are never nice enough to help me lol. I'd gladly let them flashlight blind me 6 times if i could chainsaw them a few times or hit them with the lethal rush.
For me, there are certain challenges I won't complete because I find the gameplay is toxic and I don't want to perpetuate it. I don't like hooking survivors in the basement, period. The only time I do so is if there is no other hook outside nearby. I won't use Killers with one-shot mechanics like chainsaws, so that leaves any challenges related to those two Killers out. I also don't want to use Killers that work (or are bugged) in a way that is disadvantageous to survivors - like Deathslinger and Huntress, whose ranged weapons literally go through obstacles.
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I actually think Twins are over-powered at the moment, with how easy it is to simply tunnel and slug, especially on certain maps where there aren't a lot of obstacles and turns to help with evasion. If the Killer keeps up pressure so no one can heal, Victor becomes a one-shot, and then everyone is on the ground bleeding. It's actually incredibly annoying
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I disagree - Trapper can be super effective and incredibly deadly. If someone plays them like other Killers, then yes, they are going to struggle. The Trapper requires a very different strategy to play if someone wants to be effective. It's not about early map pressure, it's more about getting to your traps around the map and placing them and getting prepped and ready for mid-game and beyond
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Instead of banning folks (since they have no way to accurately determine the cause), I'd prefer they simply award remaining survivors additional bloodpoints - right now, the 600 that gets awarded in no way makes up for the loss of a teammate, let alone if more than one "abandons." If someone DCs, give folks more bloodpoints to ease the pain of having to carry on without the additional teammate/s.
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I hope that they at least take a look at DC statistics - if certain Killers have a higher DC rate, that might point to a need for a re-work.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I'm a big advocate of trying not to ruin the match for other people, but I'm also starting to understand that the choice you have when you play killer is often to either make everyone else miserable or purposely hobble yourself so the game gets way more difficult. I really wish that that wasn't the case and that the game didn't seem to be balanced around the idea that the person playing killer should have no regard for anyone else.
In all of my matches as the Killer, I "hobble" myself by not tunneling, not camping (I don't even proxy camp), and every match is insanely fun for me - and apparently also for the survivors because I frequently chat with them afterwards and they tell me they had a blast. I've never purposely gone for kills (it does happen, and it's generally because no one went to help the person on their second hook) - and I leave the match with a hefty chunk of bloodpoints (I often max out in most of the categories), as do the survivors, and that is what I consider a win.
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Finish the match, and then report them - especially if they admit to using an exploit. Heck, take a screenshot of them admitting it
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@SocialDistomancy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815099#Comment_1815099
I'm surprised it's only ten to 15 minutes for you lol, it should be pushin 20 at night in the usa by now. I hear you though, I don't play much (usually a match or two only a night when at all) when my survivor matches wind up lasting only around as long or especially much less time than my queues. That is why I'm not playing for a couple or few months until I test the waters again and see if the game has gotten better or worse at that point.
Well, I don't watch the clock, it's possible it's closer to 15-20. :)
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@Lyonic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815210#Comment_1815210
Trapper only works on non indoor maps - and even then, some games outside have it rough.
I was on a team that got its butt kicked by Trapper on an indoor map - they were super clever with trap placement. They put them down just around the corner of doorways, and at vault locations. The close quarters allowed them to keep the pressure on, thereby preventing folks from being able to crouch-walk or walk slowly to spot the traps. It worked really, really well.
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@coppersly said:
Do you think there will come a day when you boot up DbD and don't face a toxic squad within 2 games? Where you might actually want to play it for more than 5 minutes a month?
I seriously doubt it.
It IS possible, but it relies on the community itself deciding that poor behavior is no longer acceptable. Whether that will happen? I can't say.
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@Buckoben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815084#Comment_1815084
This game isn't for you then or any that involves PvP for that matter.
I PvP in a number of games, and I don't put up with poor behavior in any of them. I simply report and move on to the next game/match.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815084#Comment_1815084
That's a bad argument. You think one side cares about the others fun in literally any other PvP game ever? You would never survive playing call of duty, that's for sure.
Toxic behavior is toxic behavior. I call it for what it is, and that it exists in lots of games doesn't invalidate what I'm saying, nor somehow magically make it OK.
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I would rather have longer games where everyone in the game is earning points and having fun. Given that queue time can be anywhere from 10-15 minutes, why on earth would I want to get into a game only to have it end in 5 minutes or less? That's not worth waiting in the queue.
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I never proxy camp or face camp. I would have chosen one of the survivors hanging around and given chase - this gives us both points for chasing, and lets the other survivor rescue their fellow. To me, that's a win-win. We're all earning points, we're all having fun. I don't have to kill a single survivor to enjoy a game.
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I don't feel like Trapper needs buffing - for certain, playing him requires a different strategy and very different tactics than other Killers, but I've faced some Trappers who are absolutely BRUTAL. Some maps are more difficult for them than others for certain (indoor maps can be painful as it can be harder to hide the trap), but the same is true for every Killer - some maps are better than others.
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@gatsby said:
Tunnel out someone early and aggressively three gen.
It seems to me like most Killers have given up on the concept of map pressure and just want to guarantee kills and game stall with the least amount of skill in chase as possible
The only way poor behavior will end is if the devs put mechanics in place that discourages it (and I can think of multiple ways of doing so for all of the various toxic behaviors we see). This is going to be an uphill battle because I've watched DBD devs streaming themselves playing Killers and engaging in poor behavior like tunneling and face-camping, and almost every streamer I've watched does the same thing. It's a shame, because such behavior utterly ruins the enjoyment for one or more players.
If someone's way of "winning" ends up ruining the enjoyment of other people playing? Then in my opinion, that's not winning at all.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814702#Comment_1814702
It's sort of the same thing as what happened to Adam - he didn't have any unique or visually interesting cosmetics, so nobody played him.
Now that he has a decent amount of skins, he's still rare but like, you actually see people playing him.
Plague needs love too.
Not just cosmetics though; her power makes it hard to rank up and can feel really sluggish and unpleasant to use. It's also RNG dependent now, because - as cool as her getting a basekit corrupted pool is - her corrupted pool spawns in some Entityforsaken corner of the map as often as it does anywhere near a generator.
As strong as her power can be, having to wander away from everything kills her pressure and wastes the one thing Killers never have enough of: time.
It can turn her power into a potential lose-lose, just like with Trapper.
And I get the devs are fixing like 7 other Killers right now and are busy making outfits for Meg, Claudette, Elodie, Felix, Feng, etc., but it'd be reassuring to know they're at least aware of Adiris' existence and will take a look at her some time.
As is, she's probably just going to be played less and less over time - not more.
I play Plague, and I don't even worry about grabbing the pools - I've never felt like I need them, and eventually, the players give me Corrupt Purge all on their own, so I never have to touch a single pool.
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I dislike what I'm hearing on streams right now - basically, streamers are suggesting camping hooked survivors to ensure they go to second state so they can essentially get around the new restriction and still be able to mori after one hook.
The last thing we need is more face-camping - we REALLY need mechanics put into place that discourage this kind of behavior.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804588#Comment_1804588
How? He doesn't even have an animation for that nor the ability to do so.
We were wondering the same thing! Suffice to say, they were shocked when it happened. It was definitely a "#########??" moment.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804168#Comment_1804168
You can "switch" in a second, but it takes 3 seconds for you to gain control of charlotte.
If a streamer was controlling both at the same time, this was likely a bug, as it isn't an intended feature.
The twins are very good if you slug with them, but if you play smart and travel in groups and heal quickly, they are pretty weak killers. Now you can make this more in your favor by running things like ruin + undying and then a slow down like sloppy or thanatophobia but honestly as long as you stayed healed up and keep victor on you for as long as possible, they are fairly weak killers.
To repeat: that is not what I'm hearing from the half-dozen or so friends who have played the Twins. Every single one has told me as soon as Victor is attached (or has downed a player), they have switched and are on the move. Is it possible some folks are experiencing lag, and that's causing a delay in Charlotte moving?
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@HellDescent said:
The time is way to short. It needs to be more punishing going in a locker against him since he cannot grab a survivor out of it. They should've given Lil' Vic an ability to drag they out and throw them on the ground instead of holding the locker shut. And if they got ds then you've wasted a lot of time. Going in a locker against a killer mid chase should be punishing.
Interesting you should mention that. A friend who is Rank 3 and I were in a Twins match last night - and they got yanked out of a locker by Victor.
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Frankly, I feel like Moris should just be removed from the game, period. Killers already kill players, they don't need another way to do so. I confess I'm not sure why people are upset about keys - I don't find them all that powerful, and so much of how they function is up to luck anyway. I don't see keys and moris as similar at all.
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@Healthore77992 said:
I mean, this is not right.. Only 10 seconds?:Did they take into consideration that it takes about 3-4 seconds to switch from Victor to Charlotte?
This is not what I'm hearing from friends who play the Twins. They tell me they can switch back and forth in a second - and I had someone tell me they were watching a DBD streamer who was somehow controlling BOTH twins at the same time. Right now, everything I'm seeing as a survivor, and everything folks who play the Twins are telling me are indicating the Twins are overpowered.