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SoGo
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I agree with @jesterkind . Let it be 5 chests.
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@Astel said:
I think these are pretty great.
I thought what if we make None Are Free's blocking time gets extended a lot more if you manage to get full tokens before someone dies or gets sacrificed. So for example, you gain 15s blocking time per token, and if you gain full token before some dies, it's blocking time extends by additional 30 seconds.
I have also wanted Eruption's cool-down to be deleted.
That would be a nice buff to None Are Free.
As for Eruption, it's not part of this discussion, but it should get a bit of an adjustment.
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Both Syringes and BNPs could both get limitations that would reduce the amount of charges of their items, so you get their effects, but not both them and the base uses of the items
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978567#Comment_3978567
Yeah, I don't see why they need to nerf Iri with basekit nerf on top of it. Do one or another, not both.
Double nerfs are plague of bhvr and so many things gone completely due to these double nerfs. Medusa's Hair was addon which everyone was running, and after double nerf I didn't see it at all, for example.
But besides it, I think it's fine nerf. And I'm pretty sure they will give to Vials like 4-5 charges what will result in no difference with them being endless, because you don't use it more than 4-5 times per match on average anyway.
Ideally, I would make it 35% opacity in basekit, 3 charges only, Iri addon +10% opacity and -1 charge.
But I'm glad we don't wait for another year or two to nerf them, it's not Vials fault that Sables use it a second before hit and then cry here that it's "useless". People would have learned how to use them properly in a month or two, and it would be nightmare to play against them in their current state.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978570#Comment_3978570
Why Blood Amber is here? It's finally in a semi-fair state over 8 years. Since when old OoO on button isn't strong enough for anyone to ask for buffs, lol?
Blood Amber is there because it did get two downsides at once alongside a rarity increase.
Tbf it is relatively fine.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978319#Comment_3978319
I would, but I've been so frustrated with BHVR's treatment of the Survivor role of late, it's better for me to walk away from Survivor for the time being. If I do touch this game, I'm gonna stick to playing Legion and a handful of other Killers for now.
Honestly, they spend all that time developing the first interesting, unique, useful new item in years only to immediately turn it into blood web clutter you'd only bring for the "vibes" to give your endgame mori a bit of extra spooky atmosphere. Half the game is currently on fire, players don't even know what their intended opacity is meant to be because there's no consistency across the maps and yet they think now is the time to make balancing decisions about a goofy item we've had for no more than 2 weeks. I just… Ugh.
(can you tell I'm still mad about this?)
I looked at the post.
It's really odd how the Vials work.
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This is really interesting.
Maybe this is why some people say they can see through them just fine, while others say you can't see anything.
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I would make it trigger on last hook and up the stun time to 4 seconds.
So it actually is a Last Stand and not a bully tool.
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@Rudjohns said:
Now they just need to revert maps and keys back again
I disagree.
Keys are almost perfect now, with Blood Amber only requiring the charges nerf to be removed to be perfect.
Maps do need more things to track, true, and some adjustments are needed, but mechanically they are an improvement (mechanically being the key word here, not in the variety department, that one got truly nerfed)
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@UndeddJester said:
Whoa... it doesn't need a double (triple) nerf... yes I believe it needs reigning in a tad, but this is overboard…
What's with the nuclear option? Couldn't there be a more measured set of changes instead of applying 2 (3) major nerfs all at once?
Looking at BHVR's past nerfs, they do love the double nerfs to stuff deemed too strong.
STBFL, Ruin, Iron Will, Blood Amber and now Fog Vials.
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@fussy said:
Iri addon should stay as it is now with reverted opacity, but other nerfs are completely fine.
If anyone thinks that current Vials isn't just "let me press button to deny chase", it tells more about player, than about Vials.
It reminds me Drama situations, where it's insanely strong in right hands, but most people think that this is a weak perk, because you need just a little of strategic planning to get a value. And this is where most players have huge problems.Forgive me for asking, but, you mean the 10% opacity version?
Because, yes, that one was relatively fine. I would just personally replace one of the current downsides with it taking away charges/increasing the cooldown significantly.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978441#Comment_3978441
Sounds like syringes and styptics need to be nerfed, so that survivors are encouraged to bring other items.
Medkits are outdated, and should be reworked like keys and maps were.
The BNP and Syringe should get nerfs. 100%.
But that doesn't really change the fact that the new iri add-ons are kind of.... eh.
Blood Amber is the best of the three, old Object is nothing to sneeze at, but the downsides just pummel it down imo. I can understand the shorter aura reveal, but why does it also remove charges? I think the charge downside should not be there and the add-on is good to go.
Crimson Stamp is firstly, useless for most cases and secondly, completely against the whole schtick of maps. The whole revealing objects thing? We sacrificed the event Map's Empathy effect for this? It should be reworked, it could maybe show you gen progress like the Wraith and Legion addons do?
And lastly, Potent Tincture. I feel like they have gone overboard and with wrong downsides, especially since there is no cooldown increase, so they can be spammed like hell. I would replace one of the downsides with a 100% longer cooldown. Or both, now that it gets nerfed to only do 5% opacity.
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If all of the intended nerfs go through, I have two buffs that I think would be nice:
Revert the cloud size back to 8 meters.
Revert the iri add-on back to the 10% version at least.
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Just make it so items lose 10% of charges right away when you get hit with franklins.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977948#Comment_3977948
There was definitely a better way to make fog vials rather than "lmao robbing you of almost all your senses in a large area". The recharge was stupid and sound muffling was stupid. It's still gonna be good against killers that are walking to your area which has always been its best use case. It's still gonna be very good on indoor maps even mid chase.
Any stealth perk is good indoors. Even the bad ones like Self Preservation.
But that is not the point.
The point is that the Fog Vials are getting double-nerfed, even though a singular one would suffice.
Like, sure, make them only usable a certain amount of times, but don't also nerf everything else.
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@Crowman said:
BHVR loves the double nerfs. It's really the most frustrating thing about their balancing.
My personal opinion is they should limit the charges first and then see if fog vials need more changes whether buffs or nerfs as a result. Because I think fog vials will never be balanced with infinite recharging.
They really do.
All the new item iri addons have two downsides. Ruin got a double nerf, Iron Will got a double nerf, STBFL got a double nerf...
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Disappointing to see. The fact that they're nerfing the Fog Density AND are planning on making the charges limited so quickly is very frustrating.
I genuinely hope this doesn't significantly affect their strength because they've added some new flair to Survivor gameplay for the first time in a while and seeing them gutted in the span of two weeks would be really upsetting.
Even with the Ultra Rare addon they won't even match their current strength, even with all of the added downsides of the Potent Tincture.
Dont forget they already got a range nerf and that the iri add-on is literally a waste of bloodpoints.
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@Feather said:
Those are great ideas, i adore forever entwined one.
Here is my concept of reworking unrelenting as well
Unrelenting - Hitting generator with basic attack makes generator explode losing 5% progress and begin to regress.
(No perks work by "kicking' gens that way)
Missing basic attack or hiting environment reduces cooldown by 20%/25%/30%That is actually quite a good one!
Making it work on gens would be pretty nice! I see you put a lot of thought into it.
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Edit:
- Removed THWACK! and Weave Attunement from the list, as they are good now.
- Adjusted buffs to Undone, Unbound, Human Greed, Hex: Nothing but Misery and Forever Entwined
- Added suggestions for Haywire and Help Wanted.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977690#Comment_3977690
That's fair, and yeah, limiting it in some way shape or form is what's needed, and uses isn't the only way to do it.
I opted for limited uses because I figured people probably like the strength of the item, and it IS a good tool for what it does. I figure while it's annoying, it's managable if it isn't something you have to deal with every time it comes off cooldown.
However you could as easily impact it's strength on each use instead... those are also valid nerfs... I just dont think that would be a popular route.
We'd get the old "Fog vials do nothing, Survivors never get any good effects, blah, blah", whereas if it is strong but limited in uses, it is much more defendable as it CAN be clutch if used well.
Ok, that is a good way of thinking.
Imo, the PTB Fog Vials were perfectly usable, as they gave you effects of Boon: Shadow Step on demand plus the fog.
But, most people wanted the version of them with the iri add-on basekit, so I guess this would be a better way to not enrage them.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3977606#Comment_3977606
Is that really such a bad thing though?
I mean genuinely if 4 survivors brought 4 fog vials and spent the 2 charges each constantly to make lore accurate Midwich, would anyone really be upset?
I'd much rather Survivors blast me with smoke at the start of the trial and not have this permanent "stuff you, roll a d10 to see if its worth your time to try and chase me mr. M1 killer" tool every time I see them.
From Survivor side, I would like to have some degree of resource management to worry about, rather than LoL throwing every time the killer gets even remotely close.
Like genuinely on a map like Lery's, this item feels like Survivor equivalent 4.6m/s Scratched Mirror Myers. There are no decisions to make... you just have zero counter play, you hold no cards, you know exactly what the Survivor is gonna do, and yet you can do nothing about it except hope they screw up and otherwise slowly lose the game.
I can see where you're coming from.
However, I simply think that restricting the amount of uses they have is a solution that will end up not working, and is unnecessary.
The issue are the specific stats the item has, with it covering every single stealth stat possible, except blood pools. Scratch Marks? None. Aura reading? Disabled. Injured Noises? Hard to hear. Footsteps? None unless you have superhearing.
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I feel like limiting charge amount would result in a solid minute of silent hill gameplay, because of how the cooldown prevents spamming.
My opinion is that the PTB to live changes were the last straw.
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Artist, Houndmaster, Wraith.
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And you didn't even touch on the new mechanics which were supposed to help with balancing the game and removing toxic playstyles.
One was effectively erased because everyone complains, one is weighted down by an unnecessary system which punishes you for existing the wrong way, the offering changes made hatch sting even more, and so much more.
I really think that we need to space out the chapters for next year FAR apart so there is enough time to fix stuff between the new flood of bugs.
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I think many people are being overtly dramatic when it comes to Maps and Keys.
I saw complaints about every single part of them, and the only two I find valid are:
- The iri add-ons are useless now (fair, especially compared to old Blood Amber)
- Maps now don't track almost anything (also fair, giving it the bare minimum + totems is kind of bad.)
As far as Fog Vials go, I would make them a bit more fair, considering people are enraged over them and that the PTB to Live changes didn't land well.
Also, my current idea for Visionary would be that it could tremendously buff maps, and allow you to rummage a chest for one.
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I agree with you.
I also think that the map should not be a part of the Withered Isle. It should be a part of Léry's Memorial Institute.
Both of these would have way more things in common than now.
I really hope they will expand and relocate the map.
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@GenJockeyNance said:
Wow I didn't think I'd ever be back on the forums again to give critique because I took like a long 2 year break but I digress. This map made me come out of the woodwork in hopes that maybe my feedback can contribute.
So firstly, the walking dead comes to dbd, cool. The survivors look great despite issues with their sounds, it can be fixed.
The map.... This is where I loaded in and just said oh no. I want to preface this by saying I'm a walking dead fan. Have been for years. I've also been a fan of almost every license dead by daylight has in their game. I've loved every licensed map they've released including the map variants in already existing realms (pizzeria comes to mind. Love the aesthetic of that map). So why do I have a problem with this walking dead map? Well.
The map is insulting first and foremost. Why isn't twd deserving of its own map and realm or at the very least a map within a realm like the pizzeria? Tell me there is any iconic locations in the series to limit it to a single low grade tile. Why is twd the only license to release with such a low effort and half assed attempt with a map? Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Alien, Stranger Things, Halloween, Fnaf, etc all come with their own maps or at least a map within an existing realm.
The "map" itself has to be the worst map ever made and released. The only "cool" thing about the map is the dead inside don't open with the sound effects and that's all it has going for it - legitimately there is nothing else. The atmosphere is just murky, there aren't really any tiles, it's just rocks and filler pallets with a killer shack. There is nothing about this map aside from dead inside don't open that would tell me this is a walking dead map. Nothing about this map shows the love and appreciation of obtaining the license like they did with RPD - that map, while at release was problematic, is beautifully detailed and gorgeous. You're in the world of Resident Evil when you load into RPD but Fallen Refuge? Twd? Where?
I'm disappointed and frankly, a little insulted this is how the franchise is being treated. There is no reason it didn't deserve it's own map.
This map never should have been released, it's awful.
Please, for the love of god bhvr, remove this map and tell us it was a prank. That you're pulling it to give it the love and identity it deserves. Please consider reworking Fallen Refuge completely. It's such an awful map and probably the worst you've ever done. I'd like to step into the world of walking dead if there's to be a map, lose myself momentarily in the immersion and what we got instead just leaves me empty and not taken away like I was with RPD. It leaves me looking around the map alright... Wondering how in the world is this supposed to be based off and inspired by the walking dead. I load into that map and I don't feel no love or care that went into the license which is disappointing because I know you're capable of doing it with my most referenced example being RPD.
I still think that this map was never supposed to leave the PTB in the first place.
They wanted to just add the tile into the other maps, but feedback and issues with the maps themselves (you could NOT fit this on Garden of Joy, without it being too out of place and extremely strong)
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It is a pretty creative idea.
I think that the Invocations shouldn't all have the exact same downside, as is really restricts them in a bad way.
I think that Treacherous Crows should have a downside of being permanently Oblivious. That way, you don't have to make it op just to outweigh a downside that doesn't make sense.
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No, because this should be made basekit without a need for offerings.
Many killers and Deception users alike would enjoy this.
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Honestly, I hope to never land on it as a survivor.
The thing is the size of Haddonfield, but with no houses or anything, just unsafe loops.
Plus, the entire area around shack? Empty space.
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@Emeal said:
Honestly I find it super weird that it has infinite charges, it goes against the idea of using scarce resrouces, but the reason likely is that the fogvial is very likely to not work so it kinda HAS to be used many times. Still I think people rarely get to use it more than 4 times a match.
Probably.
Making it have uses like maps or keys would make them even more spammable.
They would run out sooner, but before that you would have to enjoy a minute of Silent Hill gameplay.
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@Amazon_Box said:
It's simple, really: make survivors oblivious while in the fog. That way, they can weigh the cost.
And....
What does this solve again?
While Oblivious you can see the red stain, and usually you use it with the killer behind you, so you know where they are approximately.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
new overwhelming presence exhausts survivors and reveals their aura when they use an item.
fog vial is an item. one of the few people will realistically use in chase and often use early on.
was it meant to be a counterperk against fog vials at some point? right now it isnt because fog vials hide auras, but was it at some point
Probably.
Anyway, Overwhelming Presence seems really decent. The range still restricts it a bit, but it punishes exhaustion a lot.
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@Lixadonna said:
I had my first Clown match today and everyone DC'd as soon as they heard the glass shatter if that's any indication.
Clown is the new Skull Merchant. :D
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Keys didn't get nerfed, Blood Amber did.
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I would first revert the changes from the PTB.
- Opacity is back at 33%.
- Cloud size is back to 10 meters.
- Sounds are no longer muffled, droning/ambient sound made quieter.
Then, one singular thing:
- Footsteps are still muffled.
And honestly? Most of the issues would be solved.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976058#Comment_3976058
Completely agree. I didn't play enough with maps yet, but keys are cool now. Zero clue since when obvious buff become a "nerf".
Keys got improved on every front except Blood Amber, which was undeniably a relic from the time everything was allowed to be strong. But, Keys are now viable.
Maps got improvements in function, getting Crystal Bead and Glass Bead basekit is good, but now track way less stuff. That is the only real nerf. But, tbh, most of the stuff (Hatch, Hooks, Killer Belongings) was not needed anyway.
Oh and the removal of Empathy from event maps.
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Ok, I will likely be in the minority here, but I actually think that the charge changes are a significant upgrade.
Sure, feathering the Maps/Keys made it last way longer, but with Maps you had so much stuff on the screen you had to hold it down a bit to actually see where everything is.
Plus, Crystal Bead did NOT work well with feathering too. Now, you can see everything way more clearly.
Plus, you rarely need that many uses.
The only add-on for which this is detrimental is Blood Amber, as that was genuinely good when you were tapping the key instead of just holding it.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975511#Comment_3975511
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KR9HABAR2GJV/image.png
There is also 2 modifiers planned, one before 2v8, sometime this month most likely and one after.
The July one was the unreleased Chaos Shuffle.
But you are right that there are 2 at least.
Still, I feel like they didn't have to butcher milestone rewards for no good reason other than lolz.
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@SkeletalElite said:
I had absolutely 0 trouble finishing the last rift and I didn't even play that actively during that season. The natural XP earnings are lower but quests are more numerous, easier to do, and multiple can be accomplished simultaneously. It seems slow in the first week or so of release but over hte course of the next few months the rest of the rift quests, event quests, and modifier quests will release and the fragments available will increase significantly. I didn't even complete a signfiicant portion of the killer milestones, although I did get most of the survivor milestones last season and I was well into the repeatable tiers before the new rift released. I don't think it's that hard to complete the rift and getting to the deep rift (which is really the only part that matters because everything after that is reskin and you've already been refunded your auric cells) is trivially easy even if you barely play.
The issue are the milestones.
They have been made more difficult AND less rewarding, giving you less than half of what they used to, but requiring more time to finish.
As for events, the only planned one coming soon is 2v8, and that's it.
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I agree.
Also, I'd love to see the map moved to the Léry's Memorial Institute realm
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975452#Comment_3975452
You have to reactivate it every time, that's true. But you can heal yourself to get it, which is something I'd change. So it's truly antislug oriented perk rather than self pick.
Sounds fair.
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Come And Get Me! works in two ways: anti-tunneling by getting the killers attention to you, and Steagulls. It could be a bit better tho.
His Teamwork is pretty eh, and would be miles better if it worked both ways.
And Apocalyptic Ingeniuity is niche because chests are niche.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Possibly. Clown is very strong with the buffed yellow bottles. And I think the only reason why he is not seen more often is simply because he is really boring to play.
Can confirm.
I played one game to try him out and was falling asleep.
(Also because I had the Obsession hide all the time and accidentally tunneled out Ada, who was hiding very badly in lockers, and also because they 3-genned themselves.)
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@TieBreaker said:
Michonne's vomiting is hilarious. I heard someone compare it to how Clown sounds, and it's pretty close.
She sounds like her lungs imploded five minutes ago.
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I really think that maybe only the "it takes longer to get off the ground" part is necessary.
And maybe making it so you have to charge it after each use? (Unless that is a thing already)
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Totems should be a part of Boon: Illumination.
As far as new perks go, I think there is a pretty good selection of perks already, no need to add another one.
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@Gonourakuto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975211#Comment_3975211
Gens arent really tracked anymore
And the fact that totems now need an addon when before they were basekit for most maps is a little bit stupid also like i said if you put the totem tracking addon the map you no longer tracks pallets and windowsIt's not supposed to do that, that is a bug.
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@Brimp said:
Trapper and skull merchant. Hag I would say is barely hanging on by a threat. Trap killers in modern dbd really aren't doing good with the addition of certain survivor perks.
Eh, Hag is definitely a contender.
She avoids trash tier pretty well.
Ofc, Rusty Shackles are a must and you have to lean into one of her two annoying playstyles (3-gens or proxy-camp).
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I just wish they tracked more than just gens, pallets and windows.
Chests and Exit Gates (for new players) are good things to add. Hatch is unnecessary and more fit for keys, Totem add-on should be uncommon, Hooks aren't that needed to track and Killer traps got removed for a reason.
But still, there are at least 2 things they did track and don't anymore.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973249#Comment_3973249
They shouldn't of complained. The new system benefits the procrastinator far more than the last system. My friend completed the entire event tome in 12 matches in one sitting 2 days before it closed.
Maybe the last one, but not anymore, at least I think.
If I counted it correctly, you either have to play and complete all daily quests for 30+ days on top of milestones and rift pass quests, or complete the event stuff.