Seraphor
Seraphor
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It's not as simple as one side being buffed or nerfed, it's how the changes have affected gameplay.
Healthy killer perks were nerfed: Ruin, Pop, Corrupt, Pain Res, BBQ. All perks that required killers to leave a hook and presure gens to get good value out of.
Instead we have a meta of denial tactics. Coulrophobia and the new Haemorrhage denying healing. Eruption being meta denies repairs, and along with Overcharge/Call Of Bribe, come without the requirement to make a hook immediately before like Pop, which means no restrictions on when it can be used so no incentive to refrain from camping.
Hex Plaything and Pentimento, is a damned if you do damned if you don't combo, and is way too oppressive with even one totem reignited.
A lot of the base game and perk changes in a vacuum were good, but the way in which the meta has shifted to these unhealthy playstyles is the problem.
We need a shift back to things like Ruin, which requires killers to pressure gens to get value out of while making survivors do bones, Pop, which forces killers to leave a hook, BBQ and old Pain Res, which gives killers info after a hook, and also Devour, MYC, which require the killer to allow a safe unhook to gain momentum.
These don't necessarily need 'buffs' but they need reworks to make them meta viable.
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@OjomoTheWraith said:
We can't stop looking for more and more nerfs on survivor side eh? Killer mains will never be satisfied no matter how much you take away from survivors. Even if you let them spawn on hooks, killers will complain about Killer Q being to long because of survivors being to entitled not willing to play this game.
You really can't make this bullshit up
Gen times were a real issue, the problem is that simply making them take longer was never the solution. Changing them from 80s to 90s was a bad move. Things like toolboxes should have been looked at instead, along with buffs to certain perks like Corrupt, things that slow the early game, but don't hamper survivors ability to knock out gens late game.
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@SoulKey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174408#Comment_3174408
I actually like this, if they have different uses based on rarity that don't affect gen speed.
Perhaps for a limited time, prevent regression/explosion/more skill checks.
I almost never bring a toolbox because it's a boring item to use (yes, a FL/flashbang abuser), unless i find one in a chest and quickly drop it afterwards :D
This could be even worse. Time it right before a hook to prevent Pain Res, or before a down to prevent Jolt/Eruption, you're deleting killer perks.
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I'd be on board with nerfing the number of charges on toolboxes and add ons, but if you nerf the speed they'd just feel useless. You can get up to 52 charges, nerf them so the max you can get is about 36. Even if that just involves nerfing commodious and the add ons sligtly.
Also BNP is way too strong still, 25% of a gen instantly. It's nuts.
They could remove the first 15% entirely and it would still be worth using for a bonus 10% after hitting skillchecks.
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Alternatively, show them with a red/white aura.
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172537#Comment_3172537
I don't agree at all. Good survivors typically won't just jump on the first gen they see. If a survivor spawns next to a generator, they need to take into account 3 things:
- What are my surroundings?
- How safe is this generator to repair?
- Should I be repairing this generator now?
Mindlessly repairing gens at the start of the match can often lead to a triple gen setup for a killer, which may end up costing survivors the match right from the very start. What you SHOULD do as a survivor is:
- Determine whether or not the gen you spawn next to is in not in a place that is easily defendable. Often this will be a main building. Some are so strong you may want to avoid doing the gen in the main building and save it for late game because the killer still has a reason to be there, and you'll have access to a strong loop. Conversely, if you are in a corner of the map where there are no pallets, you may choose to work on that gen to get it out of the way (if you know the killer is occupied). This isn't without risk, because you are prone to being cornered if the killer comes after you.
- Use the time you have in the beginning of a match in to look at how structures and objects spawn. If you immediately work on a gen you spawn next to, you may not notice the pig box on the other side of a structure or a Hex totem in a nearby loop. This can lead to survivors being caught off guard. Walking to a nearby structure might reveal the killer's identity, other gen/totem spawns or even other survivors.
- Use the time you have in early game to familiarize yourself with the area to form an escape strategy should the killer come for you. Maybe there is a TL wall behind you that chains into a long wall jungle gym, then into a junk tile into killer shack. You don't know your map setups unless you look before it's too late. If you know what to expect when you run in any given direction, you're more likely to stay alive.
Instant progress is worthless when you have no strategy in mind.
These are all reasons in favour of blocking gens at the start of the match.
Each one you've said "use the time at the start of the match" ...
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If this is true then this is a bug.
It was explained that you should get the incentive that's displayed when you queue.
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That's what dalies and challenges are for.
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So Legion with no sound?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172237#Comment_3172237
Survivors can already do that now, they can just intentionally choose not to do the first gen they see. The fact that this doesn’t happen implies most survivors think that’s not a good strategy so forcing them to do it is effectively a nerf for them.
It's not a good strategy because the imstant objective progress is more beneficial.
Without that as an option you no longer have the conflict and get the best of both worlds, the ability to choose your generator AND the ability to start the objective instantly (the moment it becomes available).
This is like saying killers could choose to not camp and tunnel but they don't, therefore forcing killers to not camp and tunnel is a killer nerf. Make the healthy option more profitable.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171380#Comment_3171380
in the mornings my queue as survivor is insta and as killer, 30-45s.
Which means there are too many killers queuing, thus survivors get the incentive bonus.
The incentive bonus should always coincide with the side that has the shortest queue time.
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@SoylentPixie said:
Lol, I wouldn't touch the button. But I would watch someone else do it, then laugh sadly as both sides declared a newly balanced DBD as survivor/killer sided. C'mon, if you've been here for more than a couple of months, you know it would happen.
You could hand this community sheer perfection and they'd still find fault or blame their failures on bad design / biased devs.
Truth.
A perfect game would have a 50% win rate. But anyone who loses more than 25% of their games will cry that it's unfair.
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I'm not sure why so many are jumping to the conclusion that this would be a killer buff.
As it stands, killers can predict spawn locations and come straight to you, regardless of Lethal Pursuer.
With this added time, it would give survivors the room to reposition themselves and start the game on any gen, not just the ones directly opposite the killers spawn point. It would offer time to do totems without trading in objective efficiency.
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Nah. I'd rather they made a new game, hell make it DBD2. As broken as this game is it's still functional and fun, most of the time. So keep DBD1 as a relic for the minority to continue while everyone else moves to the shiney new perfect version.
Not a fan of losing investment like that. If for whatever reason my progress got deleted I'd probably never play again.
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Every Pig I've ever faced tunnels the first person with a trap to get unhooked.
It's crazy that a killer with such effective passive slowdown would decide to pressure the survivor who can't do the objective, but there it is.
Every single time.
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You should be rewarded with 'quitters bonus' points in the altruism field, equal to performing an unhook and a heal.
This should be enough to guarantee you don't depip providing you do the bare minimum yourself anyway, and may even be enough to secure yourself a pip if you do perform well.
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@EQWashu said:
Per the 6.2.0 Patch notes released yesterday:
Little confused here:
1. Your own ping/packet loss is displayed above the survivor list.
2. Players are notified when another player is experiencing server connnection issues... for killer issues... above the survivor list.
So what exactly does the thing above the survivor list show? Mine or the killers?
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Same, and I'm one of them. I usually have a fairly middle of the road ping, but since the update it's been awful.
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They didn't even reduced the size of the maps very much. Other than losing the third floor in the library, seems to have been a pointless change.
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@Shadowwander said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161207#Comment_3161207
Killers don't need to camp hooks during endgame; endgame is literally designed in their favor and for their benefit. All they have to do is patrol two doors, often times both spawning right next to each other. It's not that hard.
Never played killer have you?
If you have a survivor on a hook, 2+ other survivors alive, and the gates are powered, then:
1. The gates are 99'd.
2. If you leave the hook, that survivor escapes.
You might get another down. Maybe. Not guaranteed.
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Anyone going to explain what the bug is? Ideally without also saying how to do it.
Just "Sadako has a bug so killswitch her" doesn't seem good enough.
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Movement speed isn't based on how 'good' their power is in a chase or a loop, it's based on their mobility and map presence.
Hag can teleport.
Spirit can phase.
Huntress can hit from range.
Artist, while her power has range, cannot reliably injure at range. She's in the same ballpark as Pyramid Head.
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I believe the maximum possible score in the sacrifice category now is 8400. So yes, it needs adjustments.
Probably the 20th time I've suggested this now: Additional 500 BP bonus scores for the first time each unique survivor is hooked. This provides a maximum additional 2000 points, for a total potential of 10,400, so you can hit that 10,000 point cap with a 'perfect' game. This also replicates the old bonus from BBQ in a lesser capacity, potentially incentivising killers to not tunnel early on in the game.
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@cyniChris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3153877#Comment_3153877
Every time someone brings up "X happens when killer is within Y range of hook" they ignore the fact that survivors can purposely loop near the hook, thus granting the effect from the killer camping without the killer actually camping. That's why Reassurance got nerfed and will probably see another nerf in the not too distant future. You can't punish camping without punishing people who aren't camping, and that's simply not fair.
That's true, however this suggestion comes with a built in limiter.
If another survivor is looping the killer or otherwise keeping the killer within 16m of the hook, that's one fewer survivors repairing gens. Therefore it's in the survivors interest to keep doing gens rather than try to keep the killer close to the hook. You get less repair progress out of baiting the killer into camping than you do by simply doing gens.
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Agreed. Just make it so that you don't start the game injured. You get one additional health state for the entire game, that's not a significant buff when you consider other survivors are going through about 6+ health states depending on healing capabilities, but it doesn't telegraph your perk to the killer immediately, meaning they need to be attentive to tell if you have it after becoming injured.
Maybe don't even apply the broken status until healing as been attempted for the first time or something.
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They're never going to make it 'physically impossible to camp' because that removes player agency.
It's the killers choice to camp, to give up all other pressure in order to secure one kill or additional hook state.
Camping is a valid strategy, and there are a whole host of scenarios in which camping is either not toxic, the survivors fault, or the killers only recourse. Just because there are a few scenarios in which camping is 'toxic' and 'unfair', doesn't mean an entire facet of the game needs to be killed.
The problem is that doing so doesn't come at a high enough cost. Raise that cost so that the killer loses more by camping earlier on in the game, such as increased gen speeds or something, and you'll see it done a lot less.
Either a basekit feature that increases the repair speed of all other survivors by 5% while the killer is within 16m of a hooked survivor.
And/or a survivor perk that increases repair speeds by 10-15% while the killer is within 16m of a hooked survivor.
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Easy fix.
New score event: the first time each unique survivor is hooked, you get a bonus 500 BP.
This replicates the incentive BBQ used to have, and can make up a potential 2000 extra BP.
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Here's the thing; if you're not camping, the 10s of BT and 10% haste the survivor gets are inconsequential to you.
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Time to hoard BP until the chapter release!
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People would stop playing bubba if they can't guarantee 2 downs at every hook?
Bubba still has an insanely good chase power, you often can't avoid his chainsaw sprint unless you have a pallet or a vault in range. He doesn't need to camp.
How is the Artist exploited by survivors in not being able to place crows near the hook?
I say his power should be changed so:
1. He can't charge his chainsaw within 6m of a hooked survivor. Persists for 3s after the unhook.
2. If he hits a survivor with his chainsaw within 6m (having initiated the sweep outside of 6m) then he stop immediately, whether they go down or go into deepwound.
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Kinship is the generic alternative. They need to buff Kinship so it's closer in strength to Reassurance.
I'd say make Kinship active in both hook stages, and give an indication to other survivors that it's active.
It would be less tricky to use (only need to be within 16m instead of 6m) but less OP (30s extension instead of multiple instances of 30s)
The thing is Killers wouldn't be able to tell them apart, so they gamble on waiting out an extra 30s or are forced to stop camping.
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Feng gets all the new cosmetics because she's the most popular survivor.
It's also circular logic.
The more good cosmetics Feng gets, the more popular she's going to become. After all, she has all the good cosmetics!
I don't know about anyone else but I am so sick of Feng's voice that I'm starting to develop PTSD when I hear her cries of pain.
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The worst part of solo queue will always be; other survivors.
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@Metronix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145739#Comment_3145739
I hope this is sarcasm ... right?
No? The killer has four survivors to pick from.
Statistically, even if every killer you encounter is a tunnelling facecamper (they're not) then you should only be facecamped from the start of the game about 25% of the time.
If you're getting caught three times as much as anyone else in all of your games... you're a bad survivor. Statistically you should encounter other survivors as bad or worse than you, but apparently TC is the worst survivor in 61% of their games.
Hell if I was getting caught first over the course of 2 or 3 games I'd start playing more cautiously and letting others take the fall first. Seems like TC is running up to the killer and screaming "hook me!"
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Giving a hooked survivor unlimited time on the hook, means the other three survivors have unlimited time to do gens.
This punishes non-campers. As you're pressuring one less survivor whenever you have one hooked. Instead of having one survivor hooked and at least one other survivor going for the unhook, you just have the one survivor hooked and everyone else on gens.
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I don't see why this is necessary at all.
So what if some perks like Thanatophobia are only powerful on some killers like Legion/Plague? There are so many perks now, you can easily find an alternative for someone else. And the number of available perks will only increase over time.
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You have a 61% facecamping rate?
Out of four survivors you get facecamped nearly three times as much as you should?
I'd say you're the problem here. The role of survivor is to survive. Stop getting yourself caught and hooked.
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@Onyx said:
I love how all the killer mains in this thread are like: Bamboozle? Perfectly fine perk, just adapt, survivors!
But god forbid there were a similar perk for survivors, even if limited to a timer or being an exhaustion perk. It's only fine if survivors have to deal with dumb mechanics, like blocking windows whenever you want or Endfury, but killers should not have to deal with any such annoying mechanics.
You know what I want? a Franklins equivalent for survivors, when used (maybe when stunning a killer with a pallet) it makes them drop their addons, which they have to pick up. It also removes charges from addons and makes them get disabled if they are on the ground too much. I mean, when people complained about Franklins I saw a killer just say "just adapt and learn to play without items", well then I think killers should learn to play without addons.
1. It's more for the lore/thematic issues that this wouldn't make a ton of sense. It's the entity that can block things, so having a load of survivor perks that summon the entity is sonething they don't want to go ham with. We already have repressed alliance which has It's own justification, but survivors are still very much against the entity.
2. You realise this is an asymmetrical game right? What's next? Survivors should be able to hook killers?
Killers are the power role, it's 1v4, so in a 1v1 scenario the killer is always on top.
Survivors can play perfectly fine without any items, because items are less impactful, while many killers are reliant on their add ons.
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It would be neat if escaping with the box unlocked it as a survivor charm.
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Wouldn't this have the same effect as Lithe? Same thing, just without the risk of being insanely broken on the handful of 'god windows' in the game.
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This has to be the 5th time this has been suggested this week.
It won't work, it will just lead to more tunnelling, and then survivors who haven't been hooked once will end up dying on first hook.
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What are the incentives for seasoned players to play 'ranked' instead of 'quick play'?
What are the reasons casual players would play 'quick play' instead of 'ranked'?
You'll find that this produces a conflict, the reasons for one set of players wanting to play one will be the same reasons for the other players wanting to play that too.
'Ranked' gives emblems and grades? Then everyone will want to play ranked anyway.
'Quick Play' has no matchmaking? Then everyone will want to play quick play for "easy games", bearing in mind one players easy game is their opponents nightmare game.
You'll likely find that players quickly learn that 'Quick Play' is a chaotic hellscape of a game, getting either ridiculously easy games where their opponents DC all the time or impossible games against opponents who obliterate them instantly, and refuse to play it for the lesser rewards, finally learning the merits of MMR.
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Once again, Kindred is way more powerful than SWF comms. I often run Kindred even with SWF. You simply can't verbally communicate that much information that quickly.
The reason why SWF are stronger isn't because they can tell where everyone is at a given moment. It's because they coordinate. Even if you give all survivors the info SWF have, they would not be on the same level of SWF because they're not working as a team.
Instead of auras, survivors should get a version of 'killer instinct', or survivor instinct, so you can gauge the direction of other survivors, but not discern exact location or tell who is who.
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Better option would be a perk that causes slowdown for each unique survivor hooked.
Then again, Gift of Pain pretty much does this.
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What do you mean it's "outdated"?
What new mechanics have been brought in that invalidate the broken status?
In anything with the power creep of healing builds, the broken status is all the more valuable.
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@EvieSimpsForCrowLady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143156#Comment_3143156
Thana felt horrible to play against and basically had no effective counterplay. Good riddance
Healing is counter play.
It's now completely dead if just one survivor heals.
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You can still play the game stealthily, that doesnt have to mean urban evading around the edge of the map, it just means staying out of sight of the killer, and if more survivors practiced this solo games would go a lot smoother.
Besides it's still possible to juke Nurses, you just don't use loops in the same way.
You do it in the open, or by changing direction once you've broken line of sight.
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Would definitely like to try it out. It's easy to notice when auto aim screws you over, but it's not so easy to tell when it gives you hits you otherwise wouldn't have landed.
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@deckyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143192#Comment_3143192
huh? i'm not blaming the killer, i'm saying as long as the killer is continuing to play the game then it does not fall under the rule of taking the game hostage. even in the situation you described, the fact they're still chasing means something. pallets run out eventually and bloodlust kicks in.
if you do want this to be termed taking the game hostage then you'd have to figure out how to make it so that the rule isn't basically "playing badly is not allowed". as far as i can see, the only way the killer consents is if the survivor on the hook was trying to kill themself on hook, and frankly, i do not care what happens to those people and could not be paid to. if the other 3 survivors and the killer all hate them so bad to let them stay on hook for a full hour, then... well. how sad. what a shame.
as an aside, re: the suggestion that the reassured survivor keeps getting skill checks, i personally don't want to be subjected to extra skill checks. when i get reassured i want to be able to relax. i think people underestimate just how awful it would be if the killer's camping and your team has to reassure you to buy the time to fix up the gens and you'd be stuck there doing skill checks for, what, 3 minutes? 4 minutes? no thank you.
The whole game isn't being taken hostage, the survivor on the hook is. Their game is being taken hostage, the other players are still able to play.
This would be like one survivor trapping another survivor in a corner. In that case crows would eventually give them away and the killer would intervene, But that's not the case for a Reassurance hostage situation.
Just because the killer is still playing the game somewhere else on the map, doesn't mean that a survivor being held on the hook for 10 minutes isn't being held hostage. Not until a limiting mechanism is applied.
Crows, Bleedout, EGC etc. are all such limiting mechanisms, and you'll notice that they all have a time frame of 4 minutes or less. Anything more than that can be claimed to be 'holding the game hostage' for a particular player, and it does not fall on the killer to end it if it's the survivors who are instigating it.
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Just to add in there:
Pop Goes The Weasel: This was an effective anti camping perk too, because you need to use those 45s after a hook to find and kick a gen, providing a window to go for a hook rescue. Yet another healthy perk that was nerfed out of regular use.