Seraphor
Seraphor
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402450#Comment_3402450
What you have made clear is that you don't have any idea of what you are talking about and are over simplifying things. Starting for not taking in count a gen can be done as fast as 30 seconds, and by supposing every gen is going to be done one at a time and not multiple with more than one survivor per gen.
But the best part is "an average game last 10-20 minutes"... in what world? I mean, from what alternative reality are you posting this? 10 minutes? Ar we playing the same game? Dude, I can count with one hand the number of times a game has going past the 6 minutes mark whatever it is with me escaping, being hooked, getting a 4k or completely destroyed. In this last week, I would be thankful if any game was beyond the 5 minutes mark with all the PTs, toolboxes and BNPs people are bringing.
Again, you are not seeing the big picture here, you are just obfuscated in that theory of how things would go in your mind without taking in count all the things that are out of your control. And sorry, but seeing that you don't give any real number there for anything you said I even doubt you play the game to start with. Not just not playing killer, but playing the game at all.
10 to 20 minutes on average... the joke of the day 🤣
Are we playing the same game?
Apparently not seeing as you apparently face comp level SWF's every game who genrush 4 survivors to a gen every time?
Your MMR is so huge dude, totally impressed.
But lets pretend your worst case scenario is the more common game format for a second. 30 second gens (requires 4 survivors with PT or 3 with toolboxes/BNP's so it's unlikely you're hooking anyone but ok) gives you 112 seconds between five gens in which you would gain value out of Pain Res. That's still twice the time you're spending carrying survivors to a hook. (carrying the elusive fifth survivor because all four are slamming gens) Even your worst case scenario gives you a better chance at getting Pain res value than not.
Also, you have yet to explain how not having a choice of when you proc Pain res is better than having a choice of when you proc Pain Res.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402387#Comment_3402387
The thing is, it is not in "some" cases, it will be in most of the cases. So, you in fact won't be able to manage the timing at all because there are so many factors out of your control that would make it impossible to make use of the perk for full value in a conscious and effective way in most cases.
And I didn't focus in the "worst case" scenario because I didn't even mention just one case to start with, but all the factors that would have to happen for you to get "full value" on purpose from the perk like you two was saying. The perk would be like wanting to draw an specific card from a deck, and here you are claiming that you would be able to do it so well without depending on pure luck that you would get enough value from it to keep using it.
That's why you haven't thought this well, and still don't do.
How are you evaluating this "most cases" thing?
How often do you have a gen pop just as you're about to put someone on the hook? Why do you think that happens a disproportionate amount of times?
You spend about 5-10 seconds getting to and placing someone on the hook. (I forget how long it takes to wiggle off, 8 seconds? 12?) The average game lasts about 10-20 minutes and you can make maybe... 5-10 hooks per game depending on how well it's going, so let's say Average 15 minutes and 7 hooks. That's maybe 60 cumulative seconds of "about to hook" time over the course of 15 minutes, which equates to 6% of the game.
You're telling me all your gens pop in that 6% window?
I think you're little metaphor applies to your position more than it does to mine. Any given generator will have at least 25% of it's progress for 75% of it's duration. 67 seconds of each generator is a viable Pain Res window, and that happens fives times per game. (not accounting for any regression whatsoever which increases this figure) You have 5 minutes and 40 seconds of any given trial in which to trigger Pain Res and get value out of it, which is over 33% of the average match.
I'd say getting value out of Pain Res is precisely 5.5 times more likely than not getting value out of it. And that's when you rely purely on random chance. If you have any way of determining the progress of a given gen, such as literally seeing the gen when you hook someone, or any info perks that track progress, or knowing that x gen was at ~50% about 30 seconds go, then you're increasing those odds in your favour.
Definitely not "most cases".
It's not like trying to draw a specific card from a deck at all. It's more like trying to draw any card that isn't in the suit of Hearts, and you have the ability to check a few cards first in order to see if you can work out what suit is mostly towards the top, plus the chance that the first card is face up anyway so you can see exactly what card you're drawing.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401845#Comment_3401845
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402159#Comment_3402159
All you said here is fine and dandy... but have you think what would happen when you are just in front of the hook after a 10 seconds walk because "you thought it is the right moment to proc PR" like you have any real knowledge of how all gens are doing, and just at that moment a gen just pop up? Would you just let the survivor escape because "Oh well, I can't fully proc PR now"? What if you really need that proc because it is "the right moment", but the nearest hook is in the other side of the map or even worst, the only survivor you have found to down is the one with one hook already? What if survivors have realized you have it and are going to somewhere where the map doesn't have any hooks on purpose?
You two don't have though this well, and don't realize that the perk is only useful right now, in it's current version, because you can proc it multiple times reducing the RNG of "proc it when the time is right", as more "dice rolls" more chances you get value from it in one of them. In fact, hook placement is already a big problem, and having the SH spawn well around the map or just in one corner of it makes a difference in the usefulness of the perk even when you can proc it with every hook.
Now, you first need for RNGesus to bless you with good hook placement, then you need to not only be constantly looking at how gen are doing to make use of your strategy of "proc it in the right moment for full value", but being lucky enough to find that survivor that you didn't hook already, down him fast enough for that gen you want to regress to not be fully completed, pick him up, being less than 16 seconds away from the closest SH, get there, pray that no one would try to body block you, and do the hook to proc it.
Do you really think you can do all of this just by "pure skill and intuition" to get full value without depending on seer pure luck? Do you really believe that the planets would align at the same time someone throw a coin that stand vertically in every game for you to do this reliably not 4 times, but even 2 times per game? Because if the answer is yes then damn, you either are the luckiest people on the planet or are the gods of DbD or something 🤣
Dude, being able to manage the timing in some cases, is better than not being able to manage the timing at all.
Sure, sometimes you might opt for the white hook and the gen pops just as you're about to hook them, of course you just have to suck it up in that case, but that doesn't negate all the instances where the timing doesn't happen that way and you do get to make that choice and have it play out as you intended.
Just because you're not going to be omniscient with perfect knowledge of gen progress at all moments of a match doesn't mean there isn't any value is maintaining gamesense and potentially using any knowledge you do have to your advantage.
Being able to choose when you white-hook someone over not having that choice at all is in all cases a positive to the perk.
"You haven't thought this out" no you've overthought it and hyperfocused on the worst case scenario at the expense of ignoring literally all other scenarios.
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I don't understand. It was killswitched for a few weeks, then the last patch un-killswitched it with no mention of why, despite the fact that it still wasn't fixed.
They certainly know about it.
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No.
Removing the Scourge aspect of it now would be a nerf, not a buff.
Now I know Scourge hooks are RNG etc. ect. but the reality is most of the time you can reach a Scourge hook. (this needs a resolution for all Scourge perks, not just Pain Res)
By being a Scourge hook, you are given the choice to trigger Pain Res or not. Given that you now have only four uses of 25% regression, instead of 8 uses of 15% regression, being able to use those at the correct time is very valuable. If you down someone for the first time, but a generator pops as you're picking them up, you do not want to throw them on a Scourge hook, you don't want to use up your 25% regression when there may not be a generator with 25% progress on it yet, so instead of making a bee-line for the nearest white hook, you just opt for the red. You can use that survivors second hook state to trigger a Pain Res later.
This introduces an aspect of strategy to the perk, instead of being a mindless 'hooks = regression' mechanism that favoured tunnellers.
Remove the Scourge part of the perk and you remove that choice, and you'll see your four limited uses of 25% regression wasted more often than not.
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@mizark3 said:
A common thing I keep seeing in this thread is how it was 'uncounterable' as though all the other Survivors in the match are invisible. Even in the Bubba video posted, he ignored 2 free saws on people that weren't previously on hook. I can understand and agree that bodyblocking with anti-tunnel effects is annoying, and the counter to that is disable collision while under those effects, so the Killer can just run past them if standard M1 styled. Also many people are acting as though Deli is free, when you can only be hooked on first hook in endgame AFTER gates are 99'ed/opened. Most often you get hooked before then, especially if you risked the rescue on the person to earn your Deli in the first place.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401354#Comment_3401354
Someone deserves a 'free second chance' because they used the perk for it with hyper-specific conditions, (1 minute after unhook without touching anything to progress the game) it hardly is free. Otherwise why wouldn't someone use a perk that gives value regardless of the stage of the game, or a perk that helps reach that late game better? The Killer isn't without options, since they can still take down the unhooker and put them further into the map.
Also Survivors lack I-frames after coming off hook, so they don't exactly have an opportunity to begin with, when they can have their BT be procced before they have a chance to make a meaningful effort to prevent that. When that happens DS is more of 'a chance' than a 'second chance'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401489#Comment_3401489
The problem with DS, is how it is popular due to design flaws. As long as the design flaw exists, then need for anti-tunnel will exist. BT might as well have been basekit (With 3 selectable perks) before 6.1.0 because of how often tunneling occurred regardless. We need better incentives to leave hook or go after rescuers instead.
In general, I think each of the 6.1.0 perk nerfs should have been single nerfs instead of double nerfs. Also I'd prefer DS to have 5s stun than work in endgame if that was the choice factor, but honestly the Conspicuous Action change was good enough. The other issue with the 6.1.0 shakeup, was the perks nerfed felt fair. You could cleanse Ruin, earn Pop with hooks, not tunnel to avoid DS, use eyes to counter Iron Will. Compared to our current (soon to be gone) unearned 3-gen fare and CoH dual fortress perks. Those I will be glad to see gone, unlike their predecessors.
Someone deserves a 'free second chance' because they used the perk for it with hyper-specific conditions, (1 minute after unhook without touching anything to progress the game) it hardly is free. Otherwise why wouldn't someone use a perk that gives value regardless of the stage of the game, or a perk that helps reach that late game better? The Killer isn't without options, since they can still take down the unhooker and put them further into the map.
Also Survivors lack I-frames after coming off hook, so they don't exactly have an opportunity to begin with, when they can have their BT be procced before they have a chance to make a meaningful effort to prevent that. When that happens DS is more of 'a chance' than a 'second chance'.
When the exit gates have been powered 'not touching anything' isn't difficult.
There are plenty of perks that only work under specific conditions, DS is one of those. What do you do when you get hooked first even though you brought Deliverance? DC?
DS during endgame is simply one of those "win more when you're already winning" perks, and it had no counter play, so it was removed.
Whether you get hit immediately off the hook or not, you have a speed boost and 10 seconds grace period. If you can't make it somewhere safer in that time, that's the fault of the survivor team.
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80% (value made up for emotional impact) of Brutal outposts are the same boring killbox.
Now I wouldn't call myself a high skilled raider, but I started playing Brutal the first few days for the genmat, but I quit after I abandoned my SIXTH killbox in a row.
Btw, my outposts are generally all Dangerous (because no one raids Brutal anymore) and I still don't get raiders above level 30. So maybe these 30+ raiders are just a rare breed.
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The Harvester ensures the level is beatable. It prevents builders blocking off the genmat. And it wouldn't take much to do this in a way the builder could still beat themselves either. Surround the genmat in a 4x4x4 cube of opaque corrosive blocks, two blocks deep, except for one which is only one block deep. They would know the weak point, but raiders would have 64 to get through by trial and error.
Forcing builders to re-beat their level every single time they make a change to it would be tedious. Who would have time to raid other outposts when you spend all you time raiding your own?
Also players have different skill levels. One player might be great at building elaborate artistic outposts, but suck at raiding, so they could never build a hard level
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401354#Comment_3401354
"free" even tho it required getting all the gens done. also, theres no equivalent to this survivors once the killer has killed 3 ppl, the closest is hatch which isnt guaranteed and if the killer slugs for the 4k it just doesnt happen. if anything, the lack of this supposed "free second chance" is the killer getting what is ACTUALLY a free second chance as a reward for losing all the gens. winners deserve to win, shouldnt be a shocker
The killer has succeeded in their objective by downing a survivor, but now it becomes impossible to hook them.
That's like a survivor succeeding in repairing a generator, but now that generator explodes and doesn't count and that repair was wasted.
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Also think 'free' blocks probably wouldn't work, but tweaking the costs of things could be useful.
Maybe double all values? But have half/corner blocks still only cost 1, so effectively half the cost. This could make for more interesting ways to design a bit more cost-effective outposts.
They also need to adjust how different components affect difficulty rating. Traps appear to increase difficulty rating based on coverage (detection), their proximity to other traps, and how much of that covers Harvey's path. Holocubes and Claw traps seem to increase it as much as other traps despite being non-lethal on their own, and it also seems that basic blocks increase difficulty rating too.
I don't think basic blocks should have any impact, and holocubes and claws should only have half the impact they do, and only when in close proximity to a lethal trap. There's absolutely no reason why a labyrinth with random holocubes on their own should be rated Brutal when the only lethal components are a couple of Warmongers and a couple of Impalers.
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Might be tricky to implement, the door couldn't be placed on HRV's path in case you encased the key-holder in an impenetrable tomb.
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Dropblock: Takes up at least two vertical blocks. Presents as a bedrock block with an empty space below it, when activated by proximity, it creaks and then falls, killing the raider below it. 4 cube detection range below, but can fall any height. Once completely fallen it can be destroyed, so it takes at least a second or so to remove, which means it can be used as slow down or to trap raiders in the path of another trap if they're not quick enough.
Mods: Second Wave, Eagle Eye (+1 block detection), Explosive (after falling it flashes and explodes), and 25% faster drop speed.
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@MythicMikeneto said:
"Please nerf rock; Paper is fine. Sincerly, Scissors"
I hear ya tho.
Had a guy 0 death my small/nornal build by blocking everything with the shield. Didnt feel good; That same build caught 1 guy 7 times (eventually he git the gen mat and escaped; felt great!
Until every player is 0 deathing my build with shield in hand, I dont find a 'major' isssue here.
Raids would be near impossible if traps triggered even faster. Sure, use a shield, then multiple armored guards become the new meta. The use a shield and a sword, long range traps like fire, darts, plasma, become the new meta. Rock, paper, scissors...shoot.
When it comes down to it, become a better builder. Try new things. If you have no inspiration. Raid for a while. Learn from other builders.
I have much respect for my fellow builders ehen I run into a setup that I actually have to think about how to beat it. I see how they did it, then try to use the concept in my next build.
For context: I dont have any other weapons yet. Only the 3 bolt upgrade on the heavy bolt gun.
3 bolts, 3 grenades, a trusty knife. A grapple hook, a double jump, and my own varying level of caution; bring it on!
I hope to enjoy your builds (and likely die in them)!
Seconded. My most successful outposts have a mix of everything, typically a 'reception room' with a handful of Enforcers/Hornets/Cannonbacks, a few surprise trap set ups, and then a sudden wave of armoured Warmongers. Seems to keep people on their toes and means no single build is perfectly suited for dealing with everything. I find that most die at least a couple times, even if the odd few get through with 0 deaths, and those who die multiple times tend to get stuck on one part more than the rest, but which part that is varies from raider to raider.
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@PureHostility said:
Maps are named after cities/towns, quite sure it is after US ones.
Would be odd to limit it just to US considering BHVR are a Canadian company.
I know US have a countrpart to pretty much every European city anyway, but I've definitely seen a few of those. Brussels most recently. Plus there have been a few eastern european sounding names too.
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I was currently playing when one of my newly reactivated outposts gained 5 deaths. Outpost stats showed (+5) deaths but no new raids, and no replay showed up.
Restarted, waited and hour and restarted again, still no replay.
I mean, it's the counterpart to the '0 death 0 genmat' replays who's deaths vanish into the ether, so it kinda balances in a way. Maybe it's those raids catching up with itself?
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Because Decisive Strike during EGC makes survivors invulnerable if they go down anywhere near the exit gate.
Can't pick them up, can't leave them on the ground, they escape either way.
Counterpoint; why should you deserve a free second chance when you've already 'won' by repairing all the gens? You still have basekit BT to protect you from tunneling, so you have every opportunity to not go down immediately after getting unhooked.
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I don't shoot any bedrock. If it's a holocube then I'll hop out of the way when it pops.
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Regardless of whether they decide it's intended or not 'exploits' are always a non-punishable offense unless specifically stated as not allowed.
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I wonder if it's because your map was loaded into a players pool when it was active, but they didn't play it until after it was depleted.
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How would they show skill levels when the game can't calculate your skill level?
It only has MMR, which is based on kills/escapes, and is not representative of skill.
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Kill rate isn't equal to Win rate.
A 3k game for example has 2 winners and 3 losers, that's a 75% kill rate, 25% escape rate and a 40% win rate.
A 1k game has 2 losers, 3 winners, with a 25% kill rate and a 60% win rate.
Meanwhile a 2k game also has 2 winners, 2 losers and a tie-equivalent. That's a 50% kill/escape rate, a 40% win rate, and crucially the killer has not won, they've drawn.
So to say that the kill/escape rate should be an even 50/50 is grossly misrepresenting the game. The disrepancy is due to an imbalance of 'kill rates' being calculated out of 4, but with 5 players present in the game. Both the killer and a given survivor can 'lose' the same game. It will never correlate.
Historically kill rates have always been around 60-70% average, apart from pre-6.1 where they dropped to 50% which was deemed too low. So 60% +/- 10% seems about right. By the discrepancy between kills-out-of-4 and 5-players-per-game, It should be above 50%, but not as high as 75%.
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Maybe they could add something like Legendary Mods, where you can only have one per outpost, and a Legendary Guard mod would grant it multiple health states and a special attack or something.
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@chezpizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3400264#Comment_3400264
Nope. I bought a small outpost that had a capacity of 750.
That's unlucky, I haven't seen any less than 1500 yet. Shoulda rerolled.
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@chezpizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3400146#Comment_3400146
How much capacity do you believe is in a p1 small outpost?
Should be 1500, which is plenty.
2000 is where you start to become Brutal.
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If you've played and abandoned an outpost, you can swap it for another one.
On PlayStation you hold Triangle, other platforms, check the bottom of the screen.
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Also just found rating changes on it's own.
I left an outpost on Dangerous and activated it, came back the next day and it was rated Brutal. Didn't get many raids.
So now you can't even make a Dangerous outpost, you have to make it Normal in case it randomly jumps up a grade.
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@magic1236 said:
Something cool I have seen people do is “block” the tombs with second wave holocubes. I say this is a smart utilization of the tombs. They make them be something to get after you get the genmat so you are risking dying to get the extra loot.
I tried this. I had two obvious entrances, the main one that Harvey walks into, and a second one absolutely covered in flashy decals to say "Tombs are obviously in here" but with a second wave holocube blocking the entrance.
Nobody used it. Even raiders who would check it out first, smack it with their sword, and then enter the main route, would just rush out and instantly leave.
(was it a giant pyramid by any chance? it might have been mine, if so you must have been the only one to do so)
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Yeah, I feel that losing genmat, or any resources, upon being raided successfully, will just promote more killboxes and an Arc Barrier/Phoenix meta.
Overdrive already exists to provide this if you want to opt in to it. Most don't, because it's not worth it.
KoT looks neat though, might check it out.
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Large outposts are pointless. You can't utilise the capacity because anything much more than 2000 ends up being Brutal difficulty, regardless of how difficult it actually is, which gets a fraction of the traffic of Normal/Dangerous outposts, which means you can't hit 125 Prestige points.
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@Oh_Bob_Saget_86 said:
I will try again tonight, but when i abandon an outpost and return to sanctuary, that outpost is still in the same spot on the raid list. It now just shows how many times i have died there.
This is on PS4
Yeah, with that outpost selected, just hold down the Triangle button and it'll be replaced. Only works if you've already attempted it though.
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If I'm understanding you correctly, this is already an option.
If you're struggling to complete an outpost, you can abandon it and shuffle a new one in it's place. No cost.
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The new version is perfectly viable, while also limiting it's uses per game to 2 per survivor, and eliminating any uses before the first hook.
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Indeed.
You can stick it in Social so others (who know about it) can play it.
I do think there should be some way of resurrecting P10 outposts. Something like a once-per-week token to revive a P10 for 24hrs, or maybe it costs 600 Cells + the Synthite cost to reuse after P10.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
I don't think any of the survivors or killers should be assigned a gender or sexuality. every player should decide for himself how he plays his character.
This is fair, but lore is optional. You don't have to read the tome entries.
But where lore exists, things like this are going to crop up eventually. If some characters have confirmed heterosexual partners, it's only fair to include some non-heteronormative as well.
As long as it's not overdone, like I said, giving a confirmed identity to every character, it's fine.
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I believe Felix was confirmed to have a wife if I'm remembering correctly? There may be another couple survivors in a similar boat. Otherwise, all others should be fair game. But I kinda prefer it that way, leave it up to the imagination of the players. A couple of lore updates here or there that reveal a partner of some kind in their backstory are fine, but we don't need to have a full identity profile on every character.
Yui would seem the most natural to me, as her backstory is already primed for the inclusion of a female romance in there at some point.
I fear that including a new trans character could lean too much into stereotypes and promote a lot of trolling. Maybe an androgynous character who's low-key non-binary would be the better approach.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399391#Comment_3399391
Uhhh?
First image shows the different between 4 survivor with 1 Reassurance, and 4 survivors without.
Second image shows the different between 3 survivor with 1 Reassurance, and 3 survivors without. Which in this case, Reassurance barely make any different.
And did you try adding up the 'time on gens'?
You're talking about a 20% gen efficiency difference, when each show the exact same time on gens.
The only difference in your charts is the area shaded in pink, which presumably represents being chased by the killer and/or healing up.
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Of all the killers to whine about, you choose Demogorgon?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399276#Comment_3399276
You have to spend time to run to hooked teammate to activate and go back to Gen, then later run back to hook again for 2nd times, takes always alot of time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C18V8C3D8ZEH/image.png
I made a simple chart of Gen time difference in 90second between with a Re and without a Re. About 20% Gen efficient gap, and that's already requires tight coordination that only SWF can do.
With 3 survivors left, Reassurance makes no difference.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XXIQWRTTOR1W/image.png
I mean, if Reassurance has 1-2 time use with 60sec pause, its still more useful for Solo than using 6 times on teammates with 30sec.
Your charts make no sense, they show the same time in each.
4 survivors: 90s + 90s + 40s = 220s
3 survivors: 90s + 40s = 130s
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While I appreciate bloodlust's necessity to prevent chases going on for too long, when the killer swings they are committing to an attack, and failing that attack should come with a cost.
I'd sooner like to see 360's and auto-aim addressed so that whiffing is less down to luck than remove the cost of failing to land a hit.
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@Killing_Time said:
You guys are happy about skins when the game is in such a poor state
If you think the game is in such a poor state now, you're never going to be satisfied. More issues have been fixed now than at any time in the game's lifespan. I expect your 'poor state' has something to do with the game being too killer/survivor sided, or because of matchmaking, which has never been good.
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I don't see why limiting anniversary crowns is an issue. They mark a specific anniversary. What would be the point in buying the 2020 or 2021 crowns at this point? They're more similar to the legacy skins in a way, they mark a specific time in the game and are a way of displaying how long you've been playing.
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Camping is a choice the killer makes that costs them pressure on all other survivors. You spot a camping killer, rush gens and escape. That said, the cost could be a little higher.
Removing hook grabs would be good, because no camping killer deserves to get TWO hooks out of it, a trade is perfectly fine.
Basekit BT is absolutely an anti-camping perk, it prevents the camping killer from immediately downing the unhooked survivor, which means making a save against a camping killer isn't pointless, it's a trade, but it's not a farm.
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As long as it's not a killbox or otherwise obviously lazy, I'll probably give it a Fun. Artistic if they've paid attention to the appearance beyond just throwing a few decals and props around. Ingenious and Brutal are certainly rarer but I find them warranted occasionally when an outpost does something genuinely new to me and gives me a challenge.
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Claws and Holocubes are rated as high as Incinerators and Bomb Disposals, despite being non-lethal.
Path of the HRV increases rating even if he's just snaking around out in the open with no danger whatsoever.
Basic blocks also increase rating. Want a nice exterior to your swiss cheese outpost? It'll cost you difficulty rating.
These all need changing.
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Ok this is ridiculous. Apparently adding basic blocks increases difficulty rating as well.
I manage to tweak an outpost to where it was right on the cusp of Dangerous/Brutal, then proceeded to fill out the outpost with bricks so it didn't look like a complete mess.
Somewhere along the way it crossed over into Brutal and now I can't get it back.
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Neat idea. Could be used on a smaller scale to adjust Harvey's route through a labyrinth to spin out raiders.
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@Hodderfodder said:
I'm having the reverse experience where my dangerous outposts are getting next to no traffic.
Strangely, my aforementioned 'Brutal' outpost that had virtually no traffic, I stripped and redesigned as a 'Dangerous' one. It still got no traffic. So it's not just because it was Brutal, there's something else in play and it may be the size. After all, 'Large' burial sites are more likely to reach Brutal status.
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I have a couple that have "tricky" corners that get maybe 1 or 2 kills before the raider learns it and it's no longer a threat,
This is the ideal strategy. You want to repeat these sort of things multiple times. Each time the raider will die a couple times before solving it, and moving onto the next. If you have 5 of these in your outpost, that's about 10 kills. The important thing is the raider feels they're learning and progressing, and will ultimately beat the outpost if they persevere.
Make it too easy and they beat it with few deaths, make it too hard and they quit with few deaths.
I think if you were rewarded more for unsuccessful raids, it would promote killboxes more. Although if it maybe scaled with the number of deaths it could work out.
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@Rauthr said:
I'm curious if "rage quitting" by just ALT-F4 'ing their way out of the game, retroactively negates all the deaths they had on their run?
I'd be surprised if my outpost triggered 17 ragequits, but I suppose game crashes might also have the same effect.
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@Ilya_Lizard said:
Hello!
I would like to put a couple of words about the difficulty and base rating calculation. As much, as I understood, there are a bunch of considerations about how the trap count affects the overall outpost difficulty rating. First, it's not a trap by itself, but how many squares of space it covers - it's why impalers, by themselves, are so "cheap" in means of difficulty. Second, its "trap\volume intensity" - like, how many traps cover a single room or corridor (or even square space). A very basic shooting trap can cost its weight in gold when you put it to cover the only exit of an "L" shaped space, where one of the parts is heavily trapped already. From what I learned, holograms also get an extra cost too if they are close to some "active" trap - like arrows or grifter + impaler.
Interesting that guards are generally very cheap in means of difficulty rating. So many times I was able to put an additional guard to some boring section of the outpost after any other trap in the intensive areas immediately made the difficulty skyrocket.
Overall, for me current difficulty formula feels quite adequate - it surely allows you to build bases with K/D of ~2 efficiency (with is totally ok for normal outposts) and higher K/D for dangerous ones. (I call it "K/D" - but of course, in this case, it's actually "kill to raid")
Of cause, those are my speculations, and I have experience only with "normal"/"dangerous" outposts, but I did a lot of alterations to my dungeons and checked many possible combinations.
This would make sense, however my experience with guards is a little different. They seem to bump the rating up by more than any of the 'single square' traps.
I still feel like special considerations should be given to holo cubes and claws, as they're non-lethal and only enhance other traps. Especially because it seems claws are rated for the area they cover, and holo cubes also presumably are rated for their detection range and not the single cube they occupy.