Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112686#Comment_3112686
I like to take BP offerings with me, even the brown ones. But thats more out of habit and bc I have them to spent. Would gladly live without them ^^.
They're refund coupons without fixed amounts, essentially. You already spent 3k? you can get anywhere from 0-4k (iirc?, havent done the math in a while esp with the cap change) in exchange for taking a chance on having a good game and wasting the offering spot. Its lootbox/gatcha fodder that gives you a chance of paying itself off at all, let alone granting an actual bonus. Just extremely poor design in every way.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112756#Comment_3112756
Huh, interesting, didn't know that
Yup. Sometimes you can get a lot more value out of a bodyblock or sabo than you would think, if you know what to look for and when to use it. Granted since its straight up denying the other side's objective, it tends to lead to reprisals, even if the other party did it unintentionally. Its just a bad situation in general really.
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they completely overlooked the entire importance of anything other than perks in the bloodweb, and had to come up with something after the fact. Since it wasn't a core consideration when they overhauled the entire system, they've had to wing it and it shows.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112740#Comment_3112740
I do, I have even gotten quite a few compliments about how good my chases was but it's more of the fact I just want a normal match
Unfortunately what any of us want is rarely in the cards with this game on a good day. They continue to double down on trying to let the degree of random factors determine matches more than structuring and balancing core mechanics, so every game you have to acknowledge you are probably going to be eating a **** sandwich.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112709#Comment_3112709
I'll never understand how or why their early game collapse idea turned into what we got with 6.1.0.
Honestly it was only half the issue, and they couldn't think of a counterbalance for it. If all you do is slow down survivor early game, you make it that much harder for them to make comeback attempts lategame. It feels weird to even say due to how skewed it is currently, but changes like that need to be both impactful but also have an impactful counterbalance for survivors. Because currently the dynamic shift does have an answer from killers, but its the one that most people hate in the game. They just need to actually find a way to make both sides have an even chance overall (read: not in individual interactions) which stays consistent from start to finish. Neither side wants to ever feel helpless, nor should they.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111579#Comment_3111579
THAT is legit and fair reasoning, but I think that situation only occurs on RPD... because 3 floors... yay, any other map probably has enough hooks to hook em
You'd be surprised. It happens most often with a hook near a corner with outdoor maps, on indoor maps it can be the hook distance calculation not accounting for blocked paths/floor differences/etc. A lot of times all it takes are 1-2 offerings or a single kill eliminating a hook and you can create an area that basically requires perks like IG to be able to reach anything if they start rubbing their face on that wall/corner.
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Survival is the problem category for survivors, killers its usually brutality and deviousness being at complete odds with each other. Its kinda nutty how many killers have to either abandon using their power or abandon going for normal hits if they're going for BP gains, its like a bad attempt at trying to "force them to use both" regardless of viability.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112714#Comment_3112714
Yeah but they wouldn't do that and some people will just go AFK as theres no kick for being AFK either
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112717#Comment_3112717
I'm dont have much of a problem with nurse just my team when versing her not actually nurse herself
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112719#Comment_3112719
Agreed, I enjoy going against her and any other killer just wish my team wasnt so entitled and rage quit the games early on because 3v1 a good nurse is stupid hard especially when others struggle verse her anyway
Just use it as practice when they do. work on mixing things up and being as unpredictable as possible, while making it as hard as you can on her to get the hits and/or track you. she'll either just give up and go for the easier targets, or waste tons of time with you and maybe even have fun chases. Or you'll just go down and end up out of the match soon either way.
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it took me a few passes to even understand what i was looking at in that picture, ironically more because of the EGC effects than claudette.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
Pharmacy is disabled completely when you are healthy, you can't even unlock Chests faster.
The change completely removed the pro-active usage from the perk, horrible...
Yeah, you can find multiple Medkits, but first you have to find them, and this can be too time consuming, especially with new gen times and stronger killer chases.
Why should it be allowed to be proactive when it basically guarantees tons of free healing for the team? Just run CoH at that point.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112708#Comment_3112708
Yeah, I'm convinced alot of survivors dont actually want to play this game
Ironically I actually like going against nurse, because it forces me to play LoS mindgames as much as i can and avoid being in the open between loops whenever possible. Even if she (likely) gets you eventually, its still possible for even bad players like me to at least force her to waste some time, which adds up if people arent instantly DCing/hookciding and instead trying the same. It doesnt take too many chases to learn how to bait her into attempting to blink to spots that require more precision to not miss either the blink or the swing after, and if/when she gets you there she just staright up outplayed so cheers. Its going to sound really weird and unrelated, but learning how grapplers and mixups in fighting games works makes you better vs killers like nurse: You go into a situation knowing full well you can lose even if you do the "right" thing, but you learn how and when to hard commit to the best option at the time (even if its not the best option overall, or vs other characters) and roll with the outcome. She forces you to try to play different, which is exactly what people are *saying* they want when they say they hate playing the same 3 killers all day.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112661#Comment_3112661
Pain Resonance is still good, Gift of Pain is usable, DMS is still good (on certain killers), Overcharge & Call of Brine are seeing usage, Eruption can pay off nicely, Jolt is decent on M1s, Deadlock is still a thing, Plaything + Pentimento + other hexes like Devour Hope can be nuts. Plus throw in passive slowdowns from killer powers (Legion, Doctor) or other ways of passively pressuring survivor time & safety like Sloppy Butcher. And it's not like the perks they nerfed are unusable, just unattractive in comparison to the ones that didn't get the hammer.
I'm saying completely gut every single gen regression/slowdown perk. Give the 6.1.2 Thana treatment to all of them. Make them incredibly specific and unattractive when stacked. Because slowing the game down in a game all about racing against the clock will never not be the most appealing option when other perks don't buy you nearly as much time on average against good teams.
...Normalize maps first though.
Its been discussed before, but essentially time management has different value ratios over the course of the match, with survivors having the most value early due to having peak efficiency. The more their efficiency drops (which happens each interaction, gens popping, resources used, etc,) the more time becomes in favor of the killer. This is the entire crux of the slowdown dependency on the killer side in DBD, you need to minimize as much damage as survivors can do at their strongest, while building up your advantage as they get weaker. Its also why tunneling and camping will never go away until that disparity is addressed.
Ironically I think the thana change was a really bad attempt at trying to address that. It lines up with how they've changed others like ruin and corrupt, making them get considerably weaker as soon as that efficiency gets hardcapped at 75% on the survivor side. I think all of them weren't very good attempts at fixing the issue (especially the thana last second change) but I like to give myself hope they at least realize how many things that one issue affects about how people prioritize early game tactics for killers, and late game tactics for survivors. They need to slow down early game while having ways to lessen how harsh the hardcap can be lategame. Otherwise everything will just keep shifting around their changes with the same core mindsets and strategies continuing to fester.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112616#Comment_3112616
nurse is not and anyone with over 500 hours will agree with her being the most op killer in the game
The game itself is horribly unbalanced, with a rather deceptive amount of agency in a match relying on the survivor side. Nurse (and blight) give the killer side a larger share of that agency. They are "overpowered" enough to become "even" considering the 1v4 dynamic.
So basically you're both right, but mostly due to how literally every match will be unfair to at least some of its players every single game.
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Most offerings are legit clutter, even the BP gain ones. Anything less than cake/pudding/streamers generally requires average gains in their said categories to break even at best, especially for bad categories like survival. They often end up earning less than you were even forced to spend on them, something that absolutely should have been addressed with "grind reduction."
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
He might have been an Epic Games player, which will look like a console player to someone on Steam. AFAIK, the killer you're about to face is encoded in a plaintext file somewhere in the game folder on PC (haven't checked it out myself, so I couldn't tell you which one), so a cheat program might not have been needed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108984#Comment_3108984
I don't think you can get banned for that. It's literally in a text file somewhere, according to the people on Reddit.
The official rules ban using software that can give you an advantage, so unless he was using it with a cheat program, it probably won't get him into trouble.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110833#Comment_3110833
This is not a hack.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108986#Comment_3108986
You don't need one to predict the killer.
Its information that is not supposed to be available to users, regardless of where it comes from. It was a problem for a while after the dedicated servers switch, seemed like every doctor was suddenly going up against 4 calm spirits and other similar suspiciously organized counterpicks.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
I mean, sometimes Killers don't have a choice. I had a Trickster match, It was a 4 man SWF. They brought RPD offering and Sacrificial Oak offering. They ALL had Breakout, Breakdown, Boil Over, and Flip Flop. They also all brought Tool Boxes. They also went to that stupid upstairs "Comp Corner" in the Library.
I literally couldn't get them to a hook, so I had no choice but to let them bleed on the floor. One dead on hook, 2 bled out on the floor. All that work for a Black Pip. Talk about doing well, even though the Survivors made your objective impossible, and the game telling you it was a draw.
People do stuff like that, or even just running to a corner where the hook was removed by a kill and it ends up creating a complete hook deadzone, then complain about being slugged when its impossible for them to be hooked. Or my personal favorite, crawling into a corner out of spite and then complaining that the killer can't find them to hook them. There are plenty of times where slugging is a valid strategy, (especially when its something like 2 injured people going for a save in the killer's face,) so that in itself is going to happen occasionally, but the only time you should be trying to hide yourself as a slug is if someone else can get you up, or you have unbreakable/no mither/exponential/etc. Otherwise i'll go out in the open and spin in place to be seen and get out asap.
Of course some people do just bleed survivors out to be jerks. I honestly think people not being able to tell the difference just builds their own anger at the situation, and they'd realize the former happens a lot more often than the latter.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110349#Comment_3110349
You would think so and yet they've implemented other unnecessary changes to the game. So I disagree, feedback should continue as normal and maybe it's something they'll address or maybe not.
cool, now include both sides in the feedback and you got yourself a deal and we can agree while they continue to do nothing.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110288#Comment_3110288
That unwillingness doesn't preclude them from changing or offering options in other situations. Sometimes the development team lacks the appetite to address certain topics.
Knowingly letting an outlier corrupt their internal data that they use for decision making and analysis is a lot more important to a game than whether fringe cases get to leave early and not be penalized. Its just not a priority.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110248#Comment_3110248
The Killer can see those offerings too. They aren't secret.
The devs could add a conditional timer to the bleed-out. For example, when two survivors remain, you can bleed out after being in the dying state for XX seconds. Or even limit the bleed-out option for the last survivor.
They could also add a check to see if survivors are mashing in between skill checks on the hook, if they fail every single check, and any other number of ways to identify hook suicides, but they have not and will not. I know full well how easy it would be to have a conditional check for such a situation, but they have shown no interest or desire in considering things like that.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110208#Comment_3110208
That some players will whine and moan about how hard something is or unfun it is, but when it's given to them on a silver platter they act the same. They couldn't be bothered to put forth the least amount of effort needed for likely the highest gains they have gotten in many trials (they all seemed to be lower MMR solo queue).
It's not uncommon for me to see DCs/hook suicides when I'm putting a lot of pressure on players, or if it's an SWF group having their tactics used against them (flashlight crew realizing I'm running Lightborn just for them; faking a chase on one survivor then downing another while they're going for the heal on someone already down; letting one survivor lead me by the nose at the start of the trial to burn through most/all of the pallets on the map so they have none/none in the main areas in the later game; etc.).
This is outright laziness, though. The only other guess is they're part of the player base that believes throwing matches will get X nerfed. Which is moot, since DCs are excluded from that analysis.
I left the game running to go grab some dinner, when I came back the person had taken the hatch at some point. So they could at least press a button in the end.
I like doing something similar, when i see one killer obviously struggling to use their ability for a daily or challenge, I'll usually try to give em one, especially if its endgame and they didnt get any downs or anything. Sometimes they'll even realize and keep picking me up and letting me wiggle in place so they can get their hits in, then just let me go. its wholesome in a really awkward way.
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@Brimp said:
Its more like a 20% grind reduction at most. They just looked at the new system and went "welp if they have killers/survivors p3 already they dont have to grind through 3 perk tiers so 75% reduction!". In reality it worsened the addon grind when certain killers powers become more useable with a green or purple.
The worst part about the addon struggle is that their proposed fix isn't even going to be as good as the previous system, they're just shifting the rarity weight, which is still going to have disproportionate affect on frequency due to sheer number of smaller bloodwebs and of course the oh so well received mandatory prestige tax. And since they don't go into a collective pool or anything, your addon grind on each killer is entirely separate, all full of their own flavor of worthless clutter~
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110235#Comment_3110235
That's not a viable option, and it's unnecessary. How could bleeding out, in that case, be abused?
For the same reason as it used to be, so the 3rd can give up and give the 4th a better chance for the hatch. There are even offerings that can weigh the most likely hatch spawn location now. I can already imagine the super awesome spectacular videos on youtube of people showing their sick tech of getting downed as the third person on purpose overtop of the hatch's most likely spawn point, then their buddy epicly getting downed on the other side of the map and bleedout disconnecting in the killer's face so his bro can escape~
And again, if you honestly have faith that they will write anything into the game to tell the difference between that and a killer standing overtop of slugs waiting for them to bleed out, they still to this day have not put in any conditional check to be able to tell if survivors suicide on hook because they havent been able to figure one out. You could argue for ways to easily be able to do it, but if they can't (or won't) then none of that matters.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110214#Comment_3110214
Why are you talking about hostage situations when I'm focused on being a prisoner? Somebody could argue whether or not those situations are hostage, but that doesn't mean those situations would be eligible for a bleed-out. That's another discussion.
I never said anything about the bleed-out being carte blanche. I narrowed it to those situations where the outcome is locked, such as the last one or two slugged. In that situation, you should have the option to bleed out. You're broadening the discussion too much. I'm laser-focused on these specific cases of being prisoners. The devs could have probably revisited some of those situations, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't take action on things like this.
And you're right about the stats. I don't even bother with them.
And like I said, there's already an option for that situation if you refuse to wait, its the disconnect button. You operate under the assumption that either nobody would ever abuse such an option to leave with no pentalty, or that BHVR would adequately be able to determine if the situation really is that bad . And I have faith in neither. Only way that stance could change for me is if they did it in pairity, and in a way that actually fixes the issue.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338730/little-tip-for-soloq-players
I’ve been playing a lot more solo q survivor than killer lately due to queue times being long for killer, and honesty I have been having more fun playing survivor than killer. I don’t what it is, but matches have felt very balanced and I really haven’t had terrible luck with bad teammates.
Solo Queue is the weakest of the 3, but it is nowhere near as bad as people claim it to be. It is certainly more random than the other two, but if you're especially coming over from killer you probably already understand how to play as survivor better than a pretty large number of people who play survivor only. Every time you got outplayed by a survivor, they were inadvertently giving you lessons on how to be better at the role :)
Glad you've been having good games tho. There will certainly be bad ones, but if you understand how to make things go the opposite of how the killer wants, your chances of keeping most of them positive is pretty good.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110152#Comment_3110152
I have seen the devs discuss hostage situations, but those discussions don't limit the scope of what a hostage situation is. They have not spoken about definite hostage situations. Besides, I already pointed out that the noun is immaterial, so why are you going on about it? We can call such cases: prisoners or captives.
This thread is about slugging in a specific case where the outcome is locked. BVHR have never said that slugging the last one or two people is not something they will consider reviewing. They have specified that they dislike wasting time when the outcome is locked, which is why they changed the hook progress for the last Survivor and what prompted the implementation of EGC.
Allowing a Survivor to choose to bleed out in those circumstances is in line with this design philosophy. The fact that they haven't gotten there yet means little. Despite no complaints about it, it took years for them to accelerate the sacrificial sequence for the last person. Some (maybe most) were surprised by the change and liked the extra time to find the Hatch, break pallets, kick gens, etc.
And I rhetorically requested stats because your reply to the other person was misleading and suggested you had access to data that reveals slugging isn't as common as some have said. Whether it happens 1% or 10%, the frequency doesn't matter! Being a prisoner isn't fun, and the game should offer a way to accelerate the inevitable.
The mods/community reps have commented on hostage situation claims multiple times in threads, usually because of similar situations like this one. They always emphasize that situations that will naturally conclude the game are not considered as such. The reason for that is because the ones they do specifically consider hostage situations are actually bannable offenses. If you are expanding it outside of that you need to expand your considerations: Is a killer who is literally unable to get downs and/or kills being held hostage if the survivors are purposely playing inefficient to drag out the game? Is farming on either side holding the game hostage? Where are you allowed to draw the line?
Also you're mistaken if you think that allowing survivors to nope out with no consequence falls in line with that. They DO give you the option to disconnect, its even a button on the esc menu. They DO think you should penalized for doing so, however, especially since people used to abuse that kind of thing for "hatch tech" before the hatch change. Likewise they likely feel if the killer had an option to quit then they would take it the second the first 3 gens pop before the first hook. Hell, their reason for not even allowing killers to see if a group is SWF is because they assume they will all give up and dodge the lobby the second they see it, same as we all assume would happen. They know people want to give up and go next the second they don't have an advantage, and they know people abuse these things to the point that their proper usage can suffer as a result. Thats why almost any method of leaving the game early includes a penalty, even when its a legit internet connection issue. The only exclusion to that is suiciding on hook, because they refuse to change anything internally for them to be able to tell the difference.
For the stats I never meant to imply anything, especially with this game. All anyone has is their anecdotal evidence, even BHVR's own statistics are polluted in almost every respect. You can only draw rather specific information from them, stuff like perk/killer/survivor pickrates, total number of generators completed, all the happy feel good infographics you see on anniversaries basically. Always assume anything anyone says about the game is anecdotal, because only the most general and self evident stats about the game have any relevancy. Even the math for things in game with actual numbers that people can see gets thrown around incorrectly all the time.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
Can we please stop saying Thana will still be good on Legion/Plague? How much of the game do they really have all 4 survivors injured for a significant amount of time? The perk is literally garbage tier if only 1, 2, or 3 survivors are injured (and stay injured long enough for the 4th to get injured). 3 survivors injured = 5.4 extra seconds on a gen that starts from 0 lmao.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110033#Comment_3110033
That last sentence says it all. "learn to play the game with no progress delay perk" - translation: Pick nurse/blight or enjoy losing all gens in under 5 minutes because survivor fun is all that matters lmao.
Legion maybe, but Plague can absolutely consistently get all 4 survivors injured for long periods of time, and if they counter it, she gets extremely powerful for a duration as a reward. Legion is extremely good at injuring people but awful at securing downs, which is why he gets included for getting the benefit, since their injure frequency can easily keep up with mending and healing enough to stalemate the two. It feels like the change was designed specifically to counter that about legion, and yet it only partially did, while making it extremely less viable on almost all other killers, and plague is just sittin pretty with the new condition change.
That said, the first 3 stacks are absolutely horrendous. If i had to guess the idea was to try to make killers need to commit more to injuring all 4 people as an attempt to reduce tunneling or camping or something, and they just picked the worst possible way to try to implement that. People will just drop the perk and life goes on with no actual problems being addressed, like usual.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109497#Comment_3109497
It massively increased for me as survivor. Dwight is the only survivor I play, and all the other survivors only exist so they can unlock the very few specific perks I want to use on Dwight. It is never worth it for me to prestige any of my other survivors.
I've said it before, but the people who last minute P1'd killers and the ones who p0L40'd all their survivors but one got hit hard with the changes. Terrible addon aquisition, and if those survivors didn't get those last 10 levels you're looking at a lot of wasted BP in prestige costs alone with those survivors.
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@Rastabooze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110043#Comment_3110043
its not about the perks being nerfed. They are stronger by itself, when it takes longer time to finish a gen. The whole possibility of gens regressing is higher, so is the time gens are regressing. You dont have to study maths for that
you don't have to study math to hold m1 on a gen either yet here we are.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110046#Comment_3110046
Everything may feel viable, but it almost certainly won't all feel equally viable, and that's where the meta forms. If your take is that not running meta stuff shouldn't be a huge disadvantage, then I certainly agree with you, but there's a world of difference between that and saying that a meta is a symptom of poor game design.
Again, disagree, but only because i've played games that have managed to toe that line. Admittedly its few and far between, in which case yes, there will generally always be some type of meta. That level of balance is rarely considered or attempted in most games, and more often is relied upon instead, which is why i consider it bad game design.
You could even throw the question all the way back to games like Doom, "Why would I use the pistol when the chaingun does the exact same thing, but more efficiently?" The pistol therefore becomes bad design due to obsolesence, the meta of replacing it with the chaingun being a no brainer. Likewise you could go to the inclusion of the Super Shotgun in Doom 2 as being "good meta," as it was an improvement on previous balance in the player's favor, but even then you will find many who feel it invalidated half the weapons by that same obsolescence.
Metas are supposed to be approached by taking the reason they form, and correcting that. The ideal should always be that no meta should ever form because nobody should feel specific tools or options are required. It seems like an impossible consideration with DBD especially because the game is focused on balance by chaos, basically like a roguelike. Its also why its meta is always the worst kind, because its usually players trying to minimize the things they feel are beyond their control rather than what they want at the time.
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Im surprised it hasnt come up yet, but what ever happened with the "husk" idea? I remember they floated a possibility of having survivors DCing leave their body in the game, and it being able to be hooked but not unooked or something. That would be a good place to start to set up the groundwork for a forfeit option. Would also open room for pairity with the killer, like letting them quit and having the exit gates/egc open while their husk is transported to the basement. Again, its not even that I'm against having solutions for these situations, they just have to be "actual" solutions, and not just "im on this side, i dont like this situation, gimme gimme."
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110012#Comment_3110012
You're talking about forfeiture, which is something entirely different. Hostage doesn't mean without end; you can be held hostage for four minutes. Specifically, my use of the term is just that. The word is immaterial; you can use whatever you desire. Prisoner or captive comes to mind. The EGC launched with both the Survivor and The Killer being able to trigger it, even during the PTB. If you're slugged at the end, the outcome is locked, so it isn't forfeiture to bleed yourself out. It is a mechanism to accelerate the inevitable result and avoid the unnecessity waiting of four minutes.
I'm not going to waste my time addressing your emotional points about childish behavior displayed by some. Yes, it's terrible but has nothing to do with this. And regarding the frequency, do you have stats or data confirming it happens less often than you suggest? I'd love to see that slugging data. People usually express feedback based on their experience, which doesn't lessen its value. So it goes without saying that someone who experiences lots of slugging will be more inclined to discuss it and propose remedies.
If you want to argue forfeiture vs hostage taking, take it up with BHVR. They have weighed in on it many times over the years and that has always been their stance. Its why killers can't block the basement stairs, why myers loses collision with survivors while stalking, etc. Its something they do take steps to address, regardless of whether we agree or disagree with their definition in any given situation. You are more than welcome to record every time it happens and send a copy to bhvr with a report so they can ignore it because they don't agree on your definition, and its their game.
And again, why do you want statistics to hide behind? We all know BHVR never aggregates any of them properly, and all they do is cause people to use them for their own ends. They're awful at data capture and dissemination, and thats probably never going to change. My completely anecdotal and therefore inadmissable as anything other than my own testimony is that i never witness this phenomena that apparently so many people do. Maybe its because i play efficiently yet politely. Maybe its because i see other players and streamers regularly react positively to politeness, both implied and implicit. Maybe its because i regularly see BM get completely demolished and killers legit throw games just to single out those people. But I'm certainly thankful for it as it makes it a much easier pill to swallow when I do get toxic players, and can shrug them off easier. I'm never going to imply every person who receives treatment like that should or even deserves it, but i will certainly say that people who do both deserve and earn it will always be the first and loudest to complain about it, which dilutes any actual value to the arguments. And that applies to both sides very equally.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110011#Comment_3110011
But that's... exactly what I was talking about from the start? It's not that far from what the OP was talking about, either. The point of a suicide option is to escape hostage situations where the killer bleeds you out for the full timer because they're either looking for one other player they have no clue to the whereabouts of and cannot find, or because they're being a dick. And just because it's uncommon doesn't mean that it should be allowed to happen or that survivors should have no recourse. I've certainly faced it enough times... and killers slugging for the 4k is not a rarity at all.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110012#Comment_3110012
Like... sure, I'll take responsibility for not reading your sarcasm properly, but I don't see how it's entitled to dislike that other players are allowed to do things for the sake of being dicks and the game forces you to put up with it? I don't think I have an issue with myopia; I've complained about every instance of this on both sides that I can remember, so at the very least, you can't fault me for consistency. Certainly I don't see what the game would lose by slimming down people's avenues to be spiteful douchebags to each other, and subsequently lessening those helpless downtimes where the player can't do anything but seethe in frustration. Hell, you can even handle the slug-for-the-4k situation by keeping the hatch shut for the remainder of that player's bleedout timer if you really want to minimize the impact on gameplay.
I believe there's a big difference between "this specific game was unfair and I probably never had a chance" and "I can't do anything, even die, even though I have utterly lost this game and there's no feasible comeback from this." One still has the potential to be a worthwhile gameplay experience and the other truly does not. Like I said earlier, just because something can happen in the game doesn't mean it's healthy or can't be improved.
People bm each other on all sides in this game (including survivors doing it to each other) so calling out one specific thing because you specifically experienced it and got the big sad over it is different than thinking similar considerations should apply to other instances of it. Not considering them is one thing, but starting a cherry picking contest to be able to continue whining is literally being unwilling to accept an outcome you disagree with. You either accept it and move on, or you expand your considerations. Its also worth mentioning the entitled comment was because of how that specific person was droning on and on about how the game needed to adhere to them, instead of the other way around. TBH you specifically sound like we agree with a lot more things in regards to this stuff, so don't take anything i said to anyone else personally.
As for the two scenario comparisons at the end, I mostly agree. Again, running a perk like Unbreakable can absolutely restart games with multi-slugs, basically narrowing it down to killer-standing-over-you-BM, which is indeed essentially the game has ended. This game has spent years telling people to suck it up and wait these situations out, on both sides. If a change is made to prevent it, i would only welcome it if it was equal for both sides, but we know that will never be the case. They even managed to screw up the mori/key rework, which just ended up being 2 lines of code switched on each side with a long wait due to "the complexity of the change" for one side. There are universal problems in the game but i don't support changes unless those, too, are universal. If they actually are? 100%. Until then it just becomes more us vs them/whataboutism/pick your logic fallacy of choice really.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109808#Comment_3109808
A game having a meta isn't a symptom of poor game design, it's just a natural facet of having things to balance at all. Players are always going to use the strongest or most convenient tools available more than anything else, that's not something that any game dev team could hope to stop, and nor should they want to.
A game's meta is a problem when there's something about it that's unhealthy or unfun, not when it exists.
Proper balance shouldn't have a set meta, because everything feels viable. Take a look at well balanced fighting games, the "meta" is generally based on skill floors more than anything, its people gravitating to who is easiest to be the most successful with. Technical characters are never meta but they are often as strong as (or stronger than) their easier alternatives. I should have probably clarified I meant a meta like this game has, in that its so horribly out of balance the meta was an attempt at a stabilization response.
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@Rastabooze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109902#Comment_3109902
they actually take even longer to get them all finished. all in all the whole possibilty to finish them decreased, so gen-slow-down-perks are even stronger than before and regressing the gens even more. all in all and Im sure studies will show that, gens take at least 1min longer to finish them all now. at least
Most of the gen slow down perks got nerfed or gutted, what are you even talking about? Only a few of them got remotely buffed, and one of them already got slapped down harder than Icarus himself. If your 1 minute time you're touting is about matches in general, then allow me to present similar hyperbolie: It used to take as low as 1:40 to do 5 gens with no other factors, positive or negative applied. It now takes 2 minutes.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109922#Comment_3109922
That can’t happen when everyone are dead and you’re the last one with the killer standing over you. Why do you keep defending this childish and totally unnecessary behaviour as being ok?
because you're acting like it happens far more often than it does. and if it does happen that often for you, it's much more likely to be a form of reprisal. maybe thats why it happens so rarely to me, who knows? Fact of the matter is youre complaining about the timer specifically because of bming (which i have not once defended) and not the actual mechanic of a bleed out timer itself (which is what i have been defending)
@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109922#Comment_3109922
Nothing you say changes anything about my point. It would be optional, meaning a choice determined at the sole discretion of the Survivor. It's not a choice they would make when in the presence of Boon: Exponential or having Unbreakable, Soul Guard, or No Mither. The fact is the option currently doesn't exist. So the slugged Survivor is held hostage in the match to bleed out, thus slowly wasting their time - the justification used to accelerate the Sacrificial Sequence for the last Survivor.
if you want to introduce this, let killers quit without needing to disconnect. They can be pretty helpless in matches too sometimes, and they even had to make it so killers could start the EGC themselves at endgame because survivors were able to delay the game further even with its introduction. And yet again, as per BHVR if the situation will resolve itself there is no hostage taking in the game. They actively changed many mechanics to prevent actual hostage taking. You could argue you're "being put in time out," but that will literally always exist in the game to some degree. My argument isn't even that you shouldn't have an option to forfeit a game, just that people only wanting when it specifically affects them is an extremely childish mindset for a pvp game. Its just as childish as the people who perpetrate it, so i dont have a whole lot of sympathy.
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109896#Comment_3109896
You can't really use the "killers have to suffer through humiliation to shorten the endgame wait" while also pushing the "it's not a problem because you can go afk and do something else, and you're entitled for wanting anything else." Either the other side wasting your time to gloat is bad and shouldn't be in the game, or nothing is a problem as long as you can walk away from the screen, and you can't complain about it as a result. Pick one.
I hope you don't also think i call people palookas in real life too. That would be silly.
The entitlement comments are because the perspective is so self centered it's unreal. Like how can you even survive playing this game and not be willing to come to terms with the fact you will have games that are completely unfair, or that you'll have situations where you have no potential? This is the absolute wrong game for that kind of mindset. And my choice is that both sides both have strategic purposes for the actions as well as BM ones, like i said before. Many slugs will cry that they were left to bleed out when they hid in a corner while running IW and the killer simply couldnt find them, just like some killers will afk before the egc started and then complain that the survivors didnt finish and leave before they were forced too. I just want people to consider the bigger picture before complaining about "the side they don't like" and I especially want people to stop trying to dress me up like a scarecrow.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109538#Comment_3109538
they didn't fix what made it exploitable that people hated so much
What were they supposed to do? Nerv legion and plague? Jesus, there are easily 6 other alternatives if you want passive slowdown and you cry about the nerf to the one perk that only really worked too well on two killers.
Perks have been changed to affect specific killers powers plenty of times. Those two have the most potential to even see the perks value, let alone consistently. That didn't change, they just made everyone get less value overall. Plague and Legion are still the only two who would bother to run it, they just get less than they did after the buff. Now we went from trying to buff the perk to "shake up the meta" to nerfing it worse than it was before the buff, all in a month. There are any number of ways they could have handled it differently, but this sure ain't it chief.
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@Nicholas said:
You should be able to bleed out and move on to the next match. Devs were so worried about Survivors wasting time on the Hook that the last one standing is instantly sacrificed but are seemingly ok with The Killer wasting time and slugging you for four minutes.
Unbreakable and Boon: Exponential exist. One person getting up from a slug can completely reset the game's pressure if the killer can't damage control it properly, so the game still has potential to continue. Its actually part of why unbreakable has always been considered a strong perk, it can be the factor to completely recovering from 4 man slugs, or other slugs where rescue is otherwise impossible.
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@Rastabooze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109862#Comment_3109862
read: ALL gens take 60 sec extra
they... don't? they can take as little as +20 more total than they used to if they're done independantly in 2 waves. And thats not even getting into stuff like toolboxes, BNP, coop repair times/prove thyself, etc. Saying they take 60 seconds longer is dishonest and mathematically incorrect unless one survivor does all 5 gens, or no two gens are being worked on simultaneously.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109872#Comment_3109872
What if the thing I want to do is join another trial?, has it crossed your mind some people dont have the entire day to play and may have 1 hour of playtime? Survivors cant get into another game during those 4 minutes and they cant speed up how fast I bleed or DC because Ill get a penalty, a Killer on the other hand can go to a gate, hit the guys and end the whole thing when he wants, instead of wasting 2 minutes for EGC he can be finished in 30 seconds or less.
Im not downplaying people waiting at the gates, thats something you are making up, I didnt write a single word defending Survivors tbaging at the gates, Im just saying the Killer can speed up the whole thing by forcing them out while a Survivor cant do anything about it.
Then grow up or stop playing pvp games. How is this even an argument? You're complaining about how poor survivors need to sit there and wait a whole 4 minutes (at absolute worst case, btw) but those greedy killers can suffer through humiliation to shorten their wait, those selfish palookas!
take a step back and think for five seconds how entitled your argument sounds. Again, i honestly prefer just getting up and stretching or something instead of giving them the satisfaction. Play a game on your phone if you really can't wait that badly.
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@lauraa said:
Slugging is fine, but slugging for the 4k is kind of annoying because its wasting everybody's time.
I only go out of my way to slug for the 4k if I really hate that last survivor, and I'll always givethe poor 3rd guy hatch for his time but that's it.
Main time I ever give anyone hatch on purpose as killer is when i saw someone else screw them over, including locker jockeying lategame. Always love to see others paying it forward as well. Sandbagging should be punished at every opportunity.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109727#Comment_3109727
You can go to the Exit Gate and push them out if you really feel they are wasting your time on purpose, you cant do anything while being slugged for 4 minutes.
You cant compare both, one can be minimized by the ofended party, the other cant.
You can literally do anything else for those 4 minutes, the outcome is going to be exactly the same when you get back. just like how a killer can afk and wait for the EGC to force the survivors to leave. tbh the hitting them at the gates is actually worse, because if they're forcing the situation they're already sore winners in the first place. Bleed outs from slugging are often because the killer just straight up can't refind them to hook them again, just like how waiting at the exit is often because they're trying to buy time for any other teammates they dont know made it out yet. Both have strategic and BM applications, and both are only willing to acknowledge the BM from whichever side they dont like while downplaying their own.
seriously. Just get up and grab a beer or something.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109808#Comment_3109808
The problem is when that "objectively good thing that will be destroyed" happens to be your favorite thing in the game.
No one likes that.
No one should have to go through that.
oh I know, and I've tried to be a voice in that as well. The bottom line is that they just don't care about constructive feedback, and there will never be rhyme and reason to their design choices.
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@SirCracken said:
I've noticed a pattern with DbD's updates over the years. While the game has had glaring issues that actively hamper the experience of players, (Performance problems, bloodpoint grind, bad map design), the devs decide to change things that absolutely no one asked for. Here's a list of the things that I can remember being unnecessarily changed just off the top of my head, in no particular order.
- Adding the overheat mechanic to Hillbilly instead of just nerfing his charge speed add-ons.
- Redoing survivor animations.
- Redoing Doctor's face (His cosmetic images still haven't been updated yet).
- Redoing Trapper's mask (But not changing the loading splash screen with the OG mask being used).
- Making PWYF tokens consumed when killers perform non-lethal actions (Such as Clown's bottles).
- Removing all survivor face cosmetics from Leatherface
- Moving two lockers in the house in Garden of Joy making it safer when playing against Dredge
- Adding a cost to resetting your bloodweb level after you reach level 50
- Changing Blight's "Soul Chemical" add-on to a skillcheck gimmick
- Making it so running Blastmine and Repressed Alliance forces you to activate both of them at the same time when repairing a gen
- Nerfing Selfcare
- Reducing totem blessing and cleansing speed whilst using Calm Spirit
- Nerfing Mettle of Man (How is this even real?)
- Removing the exhausted effect from one of Clown's add-ons
- Removing the exhausted effect from one of Doctor's add-ons
And these are just the things I can remember. Behaviour really needs to take a look internally and reprioritise what exactly their goals are when developing this game. Because sometimes it seems like they have no idea what they're doing and are just making changes for the sake of it.
They balance through Chaos. One game's bad rng is offset by another game's good rng. They will always have objectively bad things they refuse to fix, while having objectively good thing that will be destroyed, "just to mix it up." They don't see metas as a symptom of poor game design, they just see them as another opportunity to shake the ant colony.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109750#Comment_3109750
nah, you're not making the argument that a 4 minute bleed time is the same as a teabag at the exit gate. You have the power to force them out.
you also have the power to get up and make a sandwich. This isn't a trolley ethics dilemma.
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@Deathstroke said:
There could be option to let you bleed out after 2 minutes being slugged but killers want their 4K so I quess that is not going to happen and if you're lucky someone can even give you hatch.
Gonna be 100% honest, the game would be infinitely healthier if neither side cared about the hatch. Its created such a pride thing that the entire game suffers, we may have moved on from hatch standoffs, but the stalemate is still there.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109727#Comment_3109727
but if you stand at the gate teabagging the killer can force you out of the game just by downing you
in what world is this the same as slugging the last survivor just for fun?
what a lousy comparison
because you have to hit them multiple times wasting time and the game will not end until you do so, the same as you have to waste time bleeding out on the ground. In BHVR's eyes, the game will end no matter what, so who cares? Either way the player is being held by the other player after the game has already been decided.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109727#Comment_3109727
That’s why we don’t support those things.
Is there a fix for survivors standing in the exit gate, for instance?
I mean there certainly could be. It would never get greenlit though, much like nodding on hook or any other BM in the game. The devs even encourage it as "trash talk" so sportsmanship is always going to be 100% player dependent.
remember, its not holding the game hostage if the game will end eventually, thats their official stance.
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@LiaLight said:
Not so long ago they sent out a player satisfaction survey with a lot of questions regarding what the players want. I am pretty sure the result overall was "BP/currencies and cool cosmetics", it should be pretty obvious what would motivate players to log-in and play the game.
The BP gain feels so bad currently and the matchmaking incentives apparently are only really there to fix queue times and have nothing to do with the grind according to a post here on the forums. They might be available, they might not, they might be only a 25% bonus.
So what is going to be done to make the game feel more rewarding? Are the amount of BP we get for score events going to be looked at so we can actually get to the 40k max BP per match? They haven't really mentioned it anywhere as far as I know. Are we going to get anything that will give us a bonus to BP at all apart from offerings? Probably not, because of the "BP economy"... it's absolutely ridiculous.
Double BP weekends should be a thing or a Bloodhunt for a week once per month, a daily log-in bonus calendar, just... something. This would be such an easy way to show that the devs actually care about player satisfaction.
They threw the rift challenges that you have to throw games for and dailies that are weighted to be disproportionately killer oriented and decided that was enough for universal extra gains. It feels greedy to ask for more until you feel how awful gains feel now, like you mentioned. Now i just don't feel like playing at all unless there's an event.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109707#Comment_3109707
It depends, really.
Standing over the last survivor and refusing to hook them for 4 minutes - That’s wrong. No?
not any worse than standing at the exit gate as a group refusing to leave and flashlight macroing. Both sides have BM that the devs refuse to acknowledge, all we can do is do our part to not contribute.
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@Tiufal said:
Funnny to see all the killer crying in vein for a single perk while getting some other stupid combo back in the same patch. Killer hypocrisy at its best.
Funny you make such a blanket us vs them statement without even realizing that the thing killers actually wanted back (the gen notification) is the one thing they didn't get. The one thing that was the most healthy thing about the perk for both sides.
Stop the us vs them for five seconds and bask in the nonsense that is dbd's balance decisions.