Rydog
Rydog
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@Kolossoni said:
I'm really curious.
The Twins are so badly coded that even a slightest action can cause glitches throughout the game.
It's clear that the devs can't make a proper 2 in 1 character and I get it's a cool concept and experiment, but even Triple A companies like Blizzard said that making such chars were a pain in the ass (i.e. D.VA, Echo in Overwatch).
This game is good and fun, but please stick to what you know.
The bugginess already makes people go nuts and yet you make a code-heavy character which is full of bugs (hovering Victor is one of them).
It's pretty myopic to just say "the devs don't know how to code." There's an entire apparatus that didn't support their efforts properly and thus led to what we have now, so don't just lay all the blame at their feet.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799190#Comment_1799190
The fact that they are so robotically metric-driven means that they don't even see it your way. The idea that "keys and moris are a problem" (a statement I emphatically agree with) is met with responses of "we looked at the data, and they don' impact win rates enough." As a team, they don't commit any effort to dig deeper into the human frustration on these things.
Incorrect. Mathieu himself said that if something is not fun to play as/against, they will address it. Moris and keys, for example, are being addressed.
They say things like this a lot, but here we still are. He's the game director, he has broad latitude to set priorities and spur rank-and-file developers to action, and empower them to solve problems. I've seen plenty of individual people within Behaviour acknowledge on a stream or a Q&A that this-or-that is an issue, but then it just gets seemingly forgotten about.
According to the DBD wiki, the last change to Moris was made in patch 2.5.0, in January 2019, and it was just a small quality of life update on the HUD. That was almost two years ago, almost half the entire life of this game to date. So I hope you'll forgive me for not having a lot of faith in them when they say they'll look into these things.
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@Velkin999 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799140#Comment_1799140
The only thing players can do is stop giving them money then. They haven't even fixed core problems like keys and Moris over years, and keep saying oh we're getting to that stuff eventually. NO its the most important thing right now,work on it right now. Atleast they are working on hit validation, but it will likely be a year before any results for that come out.
The fact that they are so robotically metric-driven means that they don't even see it your way. The idea that "keys and moris are a problem" (a statement I emphatically agree with) is met with responses of "we looked at the data, and those things don't impact win rates enough." As a team, they don't commit any effort to dig deeper into the human frustration on these things. This myopic perspective infects the whole company, and we're seeing the results in action right now with this new DLC. Maybe it's a bridge too far for enough players, but I doubt it. So many people are on the treadmill now, and it's just another $6.99.
And things like the knee-jerk assumption that "it's going to take them a year to get hit validation right" -- this is a sad but probably true assumption in a broad sense, because we have consistently seen them take forever to solve things that they have identified as major issues. This is 100% a sign of an extremely defective internal corporate culture, and they've probably lived with it for so long that there's no way out of it.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799140#Comment_1799140
I agree,
This company needs a clear sign from the community that the current state of updates etc. is not okay.
Another thing that hurts this game a LOT is the lack of competition.There's no game out there that gives you a similiar feeling and experience like DbD does and they know this.
The only clear sign in this way, as you describe, would be a not-insignificant dip in revenue. But please remember, "the community" is an extremely narrow enthusiast faction within DBD's very large player base. Those of us who engage here on the forums, and on Reddit, Twitter, etc. are a minority of DBD extremists. We are an extremely small group of people who care enough to be here in this capacity, and we are not representative of the player base at-large. Never forget that.
Lack of competition is definitely a problem in this genre, and eventually, strong competition (when someone else finally gets it right) is going to be the thing that either destroys this game or forces Behaviour to adjust. Unfortunately, I think that any sudden major adjustment is impossible, and they really need to start sorting out this game's myriad issue little by little, over time. The best-case scenario would be to create an empowered development group within Behaviour whose entire job is to fix DBD in the long run.
Or, a better solution in my eyes would be to just take everything they've learned -- good and bad -- and make Dead by Daylight 2.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1799120#Comment_1799120
I suppose you could say that people who buy the chapter and cosmetics are partially at fault too because they support their bussines practice
Customers are always gonna customer. People buy substandard stuff all the time and don't really get up in arms about it. For an individual customer, hey, it's $6.99, no big loss right? You don't have people boycotting them over that amount, and so the people in charge of looking at the profits and weighing the cost-benefit stuff shrug and go, eh, it's fine to keep going along like this. Behaviour is demonstrably a very metrics-driven company, and what we're seeing here is a consequence of that.
My conclusion about them is that they're never going to stop doing it this way because there is no outside force -- no publishing partner or other external partner -- that is telling them "no" or that can exert pressure on them to try different things or change. They're like the Star Wars prequel-era George Lucas of video game developers in that way; they make all the decisions, and no one is in a position of power to convince them otherwise, because they own the entire stake in this thing.
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They inevitably have to tamp down on Freddy's "all the things to do absolutely everything a killer needs to perform extremely well" bucket of awesome. Here are some possibilities, in my mind (I'm not saying do all of this stuff, these are just the types of things I could imagine them considering):
- Cut down on the total number of snares that Freddy can have active at once.
- Introduce a short cooldown between snare placements.
- Increase either his teleport cooldown or its activation time.
- Reduce or eliminate the action speed penalty that the dream world imposes.
- Nerf a lot of Freddy's more troublesome add-ons, like the jump ropes and dresses.
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Let's give credit where credit is due.
Yes, it's shameful that they would release a product that is this broken, and ask their customers to pay for it. Five of the six perks don't work as intended, and there are all these issues with the Twins getting stuck in the floor, etc. But I imagine that the developers are just mortified and angry when things like this happen, because it's hard to take pride in something that you know went out before you got it right. I feel really bad for them. All of their efforts are being shoved out the door in a sorry state.
You need to blame the bean-counters -- the product managers and executives who live and die by their quarterly projections, who don't give the developers any choice in this matter. Take it from me: I have worked with many good product managers at large game developers in my life, who go through with the difficult decision to delay this-or-that game or feature because it's just not ready, despite what they had initially intended the schedule to look like. I can only conclude that Behaviour does not have anyone there who is dialed in or cares enough to give things more time to bake.
The devs (undeservedly) get all of the public ire for this, but I promise you that internally, they are just as frustrated as we are.
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@Healthore77992 said:
Hmm, i do think that we will get him, the Blight and the Twins were probably testing water for him, but i don't think the concept of Chucky would be like that, because he already showed the material he has (his power etc). But the only problem would be the hooking, so it could also happen the concept like the Twins have.
Showed the material he has? I am not sure what you mean.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1797419#Comment_1797419
You had me until Pyramid Head. Silent Hill is way more important to BHVR than Hellraiser, especially after what Konami did to the franchise.
I'm pretty sure what's most important to Behaviour is to successfully negotiate strong licenses. I'm not trying to knock Silent Hill though, and it's great that it's in the game! All I was saying is that I could easily see Pyramid Head's power set and "put them in a torture cage" concept being considered for a Hellraiser theme as well.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
You never know, supposedly Legion was initially intended to be Ghost Face but that obviously panned out differently. Who knows other than BHVR.
There's a long history of this with the killers.
- Hillbilly -- Leatherface with the serial numbers filed off.
- Trapper -- arguably Jason Voorhees with the serial numbers filed off.
- Hag -- Blair Witch with the serial numbers filed off.
- Spirit -- Grudge/Ringu-inspired killer with the serial numbers filed off.
- Legion -- Ghostface with the serial numbers filed off.
- Executioner -- wouldn't be surprised if this began life as a Hellraiser DLC pitch.
Not that there's anything wrong with this, since those are nice homages to the things that inspired this game. But it seems to me that Twins fits this pattern, too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Highly doubt that, I don’t see how that would have worked at all. The character itself has too much depth for it to have been a Child’s Play license.
What I'm trying to say is, the concept and the gameplay mechanics are not the same as the killer's theme or visual identity, and I could easily see this as having begun life as a "How would we get Chucky into our game?" idea that then morphed into its current backwoods siblings theme somewhere along the way. It could have been any number of things -- ventriloquist and dummy, mad scientist and psycho robot, whatever. I'm just curious whether a Child's Play license was ever discussed around this killer.
The killers all certainly have strong visual identities and of course a lot of lore attached to them, but in game design, that sort of stuff usually all gets made up later to fit the mechanics. I could easily see a scenario where someone would have imagined, say, human Tiffany chasing survivors with a knife, and Chucky climbing down off her shoulders to jump on survivors and garrote them.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795424#Comment_1795424
It's not in the hands of the Discord mods, that's the point - it's Discord ToS, Discord are very strict about what has to be done with regards to people breaking their rules...and anything connected to child abuse has to be dealt with, and sadly there are people that regularly cross the line with the comments.
Ahh, I see. Just imagining the kinds of things people say, that must be a modding headache.
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The disconnect penalty isn't there to punish people for playing, it's there to punish people who decide they don't want to play after making the commitment to four other people. It's there to punish them for wasting those other people's time, and probably throwing the match for them.
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Victor looks like a baby. Anyone who doesn't keep up with the lore -- i.e. 99% of players -- is going to just use whatever shorthand they think makes sense for the Twins, and "baby" is an easy go-to because that's what he's visually reminiscent of. I try to refer to them as "the brother" or "the sister" as shorthand -- but whatever the case, I imagine Discord mods really ought to take this into consideration, given that this is in reference to a thing that exists in the game.
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As someone who is more or less a Freddy main these days when playing killer, I don't think it's surprising that there are nerfs inbound. He does everything a killer needs to do really well, all in his base kit without any help from add-ons or perks:
- He has excellent global map pressure with his teleport, which is on a relatively short cooldown for how effective it is.
- He finds people quickly and consistently due to his ability to spam his snares at key locations. You fire and forget, and survivors' locations just get revealed to you constantly throughout the match.
- His traps also allow him to completely shut down loops with minimal effort and close gaps very quickly in chases.
- His power set revolves around slowing down the match and inconveniencing survivors.
- He lacks a "normal" terror radius, which helps him catch survivors off-guard and has all sorts of implications for stuff like Borrowed Time, etc.
The most key thing about Freddy that makes this stuff absolutely overwhelming -- even for really good groups of survivors -- is that his skill floor is extremely low. Freddy does not have the finicky hard-read acclimation that killers like Nurse and Spirit demand; you don't have to work very hard, or even have an especially sharp game sense, to do well with him. You spam traps indiscriminately, teleport to gens, do some easy teleport fake-outs, and just generally never stop pressuring survivors. Pick some good perks that synergize well with Freddy's power set (like BBQ or Pop or Discordance), and myriad add-ons that make survivors' lives even harder, and he is just an unstoppable force.
My money is on a longer teleport cooldown (when Freddy uses or cancels it), to force more careful consideration of how and when to use it, so that he can't just constantly be everywhere at once. Maybe the blood snare inventory drops by a couple traps.
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Everyone who logged in was awarded the bonus BP as a "Sorry we screwed up" gift for this week's patch issues.
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Man, how did they not see this coming when they were developing this killer?
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@smartemarte said:
so sick and tired of slapping a killer in the face with a pallet then a second later going down
This is happening because they disabled hit validation instead of just temporarily disabling the killer that is being impacted.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I'm not real happy with it. My play time has dropped off significantly since crossplay was introduced. The shadow nerf to rift progress through challenges as pretty demoralizing for me as well.
What shadow nerf?
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It's because this game's direction is almost entirely metric-driven, and all that matters is that it's profitable on its current trajectory. No developers or developer-adjacent staff members, aside from some perpetually beleaguered community managers, ever takes any initiative within the DBD community. The most we get is those Twitch streams, where they don't ever have any real answers to real questions.
To be fair, it would be incredibly risky and inefficient to listen to every grievance a large game's community has. You cannot effectively develop a game that way. But the frequency and the degree to which Behaviour ignores major game issues is staggering, so, I dunno what the solution is.
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It's a fun game with a lot of persistent and seemingly intractable issues, same as ever.
- Perk economy is a disaster -- especially for new players -- because it's impossible to get a grip on this game and work toward something competitively viable without doing a ton of homework and riding the grind bicycle for forever. The game has 138 teachable perks and is in dire need of an overhaul of the entire system, but I presume the devs are too afraid to rip that band-aid off because a bunch of players will scream WAAAAAAAAAH BUT I SPENT TEN THOUSAND HOURS UNLOCKING EVERYTHING!!!!! So did I, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be made better.
- There is no one driving this game's UI or UX. The entire thing, from the needlessly byzantine menu org to the counterintuitive emblem system (which I still can't understand without a spreadsheet even after 2,200 hours), is obviously designed by engineers without any sort of human touch to account for end-user ease of use.
- The new player experience, such as it is, doesn't teach you anything about the game. You essentially have to suffer through a lot of confusion and frustration to find the fun.
- A lack of basic game options, like proper resolution or FOV sliders, brightness settings, granular volume controls, colorblind options, or reticules for projectile attacks. I know all the arguments about these, I just think they're backwards.
- A lot of balance issues that the devs seemingly think it's OK to paper over with perks, which is the worst kind of non-solution.
- Developer-sanctioned toxicity because of game elements that are designed to create bad experiences, like moris and keys.
- A predatory revenue model that combines a not-inexpensive base game, an aggressive paid DLC calendar, a heavily upsold in-game RMT currency, a Fortnite-esque season pass model, a mobile-game-caliber slog to earn anything via in-game currency, and a giant grind layered on top of all of it in order for players to get anywhere.
- ...combined with inadequate playtesting that leads to entire major patches being riddled with issues, a la the current situation with the launch of the Twins chapter. They literally just asked you to buy an expansion where five of the six new perks don't work as intended.
- The fact that this is coming out of the largest independent game developer in Canada. They can do better.
Obviously those are just a bunch of gripes. You've all heard it from me before. I also continue to play this game because it's fun. There are just a lot of issues that are "really should have been fixed a long time ago" things, so I don't really extend a lot of understanding about them. This game really needs a Rainbow Six-esque Operation Health patch, but I don't see it happening.
One day, someone is going to do this one-vs-many genre right, and deliver a well-supported product that isn't DOA. Behaviour really ought to be preparing for that day by improving and modernizing their game so that it doesn't get its lunch eaten. At this point, I kinda wish they had the good sense to take everything they've learned and just make Dead by Daylight 2.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1514658#Comment_1514658
Wraith has so many downsides though. He doesn't get you any useful teachable perks. He's heavily add on dependent, so you'll need to continue to toss lots of BP at him to keep him relevant. Also, he kinda needs some teachable perks available to him to function. Honestly starting off as a Billy that only uses the saw to get around is probably better than Wraith.
Agreed on all points, but I am thinking of this entirely from the perspective of acclimating to the killer role in general -- not the long-term road to unlocking perks or fussing over the bigger-picture meta. Any killer you start off with is going to be hobbled in some way because you are gonna be really limited in terms of your perk and loadout options. The point I was making about Wraith is that you have to learn the fundamentals in order to get anywhere with him, at which point you could "graduate" to a better killer with stronger and more nuanced mechanics.
Also, if matchmaking ever gets fixed, Wraith tends to be a bit of a noob-stomper too, because new players don't know what they're doing or how to handle him. So, assuming you are evenly matched during your early rounds, you should have a bit of breathing room despite Wraith's non-ideal larger-scope issues.
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My honest answer -- even though he's weak at high ranks -- is that Wraith is the best killer to start with. He is uncomplicated and gives you a good crutch to find survivors (which is something new players often struggle with), and his lack of any strong chase mechanics means that you have to become competent at the basics of running loops, hiding your red stain, and not overcommitting to unfavorable chases.
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Is this just since the patch? I assume sound occlusion is occluding.
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I stay at the gate until I know that everyone remaining is safe and clear, then I leave. If there is a conflict going on elsewhere while the door is open, and I am still in the match, it means there is one more potential pressure point that the killer has to account for (somebody going for a flashlight save, body blocking for an injured teammate running to the gate, etc.). If I leave before everyone is safe, it definitively clears a path for the killer.
What I don't do is stand there and taunt the killer, because I'm not a sore winner. I might let someone heal me (and/or heal them) if the situation allows, but if we're all at the gate, generally I am out.
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This bit below, from the news update about the matchmaking changes -- nobody is gonna know or use that. If ranks and color bands are front and center, that is still gonna be what players use to compare and evaluate, because it is what's in front of them. The presentation needs to be updated to match whatever it is Behaviour is going for with the under-the-hood changes.
The fact that it isn't all in sync makes this whole thing come across as sloppy and rushed, without any sort of input from a UX designer. There has to be another clear, visible indicator of a player's aptitude -- otherwise everyone will just keep using what they've been using, and then wondering why the matchmaking keeps pairing them with wildly different ranks. You guys at Behaviour have to assume, whenever you do absolutely anything like this, that the average non-hardcore player isn't reading news updates, isn't reading most of the patch notes, isn't looking at these forums, and only takes away from it what they see happening in-game.
WHY ARE THERE STILL RANKS?
Matchmaking has been and continues to be one of the hottest topics we hear about, and we have been listening! To get this implemented as quickly as possible, we have decided to roll it out independent of a rework of the Rank system. That doesn’t mean we don’t have plans for Ranks, however! We are exploring different ideas like turning them into a monthly activity tracker and reward system, when we are ready, we'll communicate more about that
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Nothing good would come of this. And if it were a limited-options chat wheel type thing, it would just lead to killers spamming untruthful "Let's farm" or "New player here" equivalents to trick survivors into making mistakes.
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I been gone a month, and this is STILL a thing.
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At the risk of coming across slightly pedantic, Medusa was the person. The creature she became is called a gorgon.
And we already have a DEMOGORGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two gorgons would be too scary. :(
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Wraith is a newbie-stomper, but when you learn all of his tells and weaknesses (his distinctive noises, Predator shimmer, no map pressure, poor chase/looping potentials, flashlights shut him down), he stops looking very appealing.
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@dangitben said:
How am I supposed to put in a meaningful report for a player intentionally throwing and then mocking everyone after the game since "naming and shaming" is against the rules?
edit: you know what, forget it. doesnt matter
You've got to use the in-game reporting system or the support site to report players -- not the forum.
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@Cassandra_Alexandra said:
I just had a match where every player but me used one and my score was 24K and I earned 30BP because it included my 75% boldness offering. I got nothing extra for any of the gateus used. Why are people still using them when they don’t work? I’m waiting for the fix. This is PS4. I dunno if it’s the same with PC and Xbox.
Nobody knows that they don't work. Outside of the few hundred people on this forum, it's down to players to read those in-game news alerts, which a) don't pop up consistently, and b) you can't really rely on players to read anyway. They should have changed the item's tool tip and/or just locked it from use pending a fix, like any normal game developer would do.
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If only there were some review process -- like, say, submitting a ticket to ask Behaviour to look at a prestige achievement that was earned before certain cutoff date, and then re-award Legacy cosmetics if that checks out. If only there were timestamped achievements in this game, around the exact criteria that confirm whether a person unlocked it or not. Too bad none of those things exist in this game!
(Normally, my feedback is "Imagine getting upset about some cosmetics in a video game," but I do think it's reasonable to put in place a redemption system for people who earned these ones, as there was a specific criteria not tied to some seasonal event.)
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An "Operation Health" equivalent would be really great for this game. It needs a top-to-bottom onboarding and UX/UI pass, lots of bug fixes, and a rethink of how currency is distributed and spent (in other words: fix the perk grind).
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Seems unlikely that they could build a cross-platform friends network, unless they had a separate friends list in-game.
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Penalty-free disconnects for hook suicides definitely need to go away.
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What a dumb theory. Why would you assume a bunch of lawyers know or care at all about the game mechanics? This type of licensing primarily revolves around fees and revenue sharing; whatever contract Behaviour agreed to probably included stipulations around the character's presentation (specificity around his appearance and that it applies only to the character as he was portrayed in the 2010 remake etc.), and some degree of sign-off by relevant stakeholders. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that they care one whit about game mechanics, though. I don't even understand how you can think this.
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Incidentally, speaking of Elvira, here's one of the walls in my office.
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YES!
While we're at it, can we have Joe Bob Briggs and Rhonda Shear as survivors too? 😀
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What you're describing is called "malware." 🤣
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@Someguy28 said:
Hi so I am new player to this game, on PC steam. Is the community at wide generally just toxic or is it not the norm for someone to tell me to do harm to my mother after a game? in incredible graphic detail. I know general trash talk is a given on the internet but I've seen some really vile stuff that puts a known toxic community like league to shame.
I've been trash talked as a killer by getting 1-4 kills an told its not a victory by ever changing criteria. I know camping is bad form so I leave, see another survivor bolt for it, then get trash talked for you know chasing them? Or am I not supposed to chase a survivor when I see them an give them a head start?
I have maybe lv 5 on a new killer, have two basic traits, go up against flash light spamming very rare add-on and maxed perk survivors an they just say awful things after a game. I mean yeah I can ignore it but its like every game.
I'm sorry that you had this experience. I promise there are nice players out there too. Just remember, when people act like that, it's because this video game is all they have in life.
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I've been through at least 20 webs on my main survivor, and I've gotten exactly one anniversary flashlight and one anniversary medkit.
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I've been through at least a dozen webs with my main survivor, and I've gotten one flashlight, one med-kit, and close to 30 cakes. The items are weirdly rare.
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This + Kindred is an awesome build.
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@cenoflame said:
When I get hooked and see three yellow shapes just running in random directions and not doing gens.
Doing this while I have Kindred and am providing the entire team with perfect information about the game state. You saw where the killer went, you see someone coming after me... why are you not on gens??
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1381965#Comment_1381965
Honestly I'm curious how much different of a work experience working from their home computers is from working on the computers from the office. I admit I'm probably missing something MASSIVE, but... it doesnt seem like it would really be alot of extra difficulties.
I can tell you from experience that game developers have definitely found creative solutions to keep their productivity up and their product schedules rolling throughout this global lockdown. I'm sure it's harder on some than others, but a lot of developers have risen to the challenge pretty quickly and figured it out.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/165000/ghastly-gateau
have you ever dealt with "red tape"? I can fix something in 1 min at my job but because of protocols...my 1 minute fix turns into 500 hours with everyone else involved.
This is why I pointed out that the problem is the process. The process needs to improve.
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This idea may get a lot more traction soon: https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3621071/jason-blum-updates-blumhouses-five-nights-freddys-movie-moving-rapidly-forward/
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1378391#Comment_1378391
I'm just saying what the most common justification is. My personal opinion for not wanting it is that I just don't think it's scary or even good. It's a puzzle game with jumpscares.
Right, but what I am asking is, where does that justification come from? Do people just assume "FNAF looks like it's a kids' game"? I'm asking if it's based on an actual metric, or if it's just an assumption you have heard other people make based on its style.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Because FNAF is just a game which lives from its Jumpscares. Which can be fun and scary for a limited time, but afterwards, it becomes pretty lame. Thats just the nature of Jumpscares. This fast change from normal to "Oh #########, something is happening" to "Ok, just in the game" makes the fun, but does not work over a long period of time.
And FNAF, while I dont think that those games were really bad (the first one at least was good), had a little too much sequels, they did too much of the same.
Respectfully, I think you could replace every instance of "FNAF" with "Halloween" or "Friday the 13th" (and "games" with "movies") and it would be a pretty accurate description of a lot of beloved slasher films. The source material that DBD honors isn't exactly Shakespeare, is all I'm saying.