Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369018#Comment_3369018
The steam rolling part of his power is entirely within the survivor’s control. That can only happen if they play poorly and stay close to each other.
Smash pick up get next hit due to lack of resources rage smash survivor of choice (preferably a healthy one) collect repeat. Simplified to grossness but we think you get the point. You make it seem like the killer can't play smart.
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As long as the map is made relatively well, multiple floor maps are fine. Gives different advantages and disadvantages depending on builds and killers.
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No, it doesn't block auras. If it does then that's a nice bug that may not need squashed for awhile.
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Pick any number:
- Don't want to or care
- Forgot
- challenge
- perks that give specific/better items
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That really shouldn't count as an artist. Don't give crow lady a bad name >/>
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First started with wraith and trapper cause we like ambush plays and infinites were a problem then moving along to Freddy as we liked the unique mechanics and jump-scare Freddy till Legion cause we liked the violent repeated stabbings (don't judge it was cathartic after groups of toxic survivors...) then came Ghostie till silent hill came to the fog and after that Artist. We play everyone from twins to blight but Artist is still at the top. We're not sure why we gravitate to these killers more than others though.
For survivor I was usually David as I share part of his name till silent hill came and we like being a Silent Hill squad on occasion.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368207#Comment_3368207
No, I wouldn’t. He takes too long to get going. Good survivors know to predrop and not give him that first hit. He won’t get his power until the game is close to over.
And then he proceeds to squash survivors like bugs as they have both less to work with and he has instant down with mobility.
What we don't get is why people think that losing those first gens means the end of the game when its the exit gates that mater.
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@Nos37 said:
"I am not playing this game to sweat against 4 flashlights, 3 saboteurs, 2 breakdowns"
Shouldn't SWF be locked to ranked then? If you have to sweat against this, how would that be considered casual?
because what's casual to you isn't casual to others
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The only change we can think of that doesn't completely change the killer would be something along the lines of a delay when a survivor hacks a drone. As it stands survivors hacking drones doesn't do much and comes with risks. If survivors hack a drone maybe a longer delay to redeploy or have to repair it or something along those lines. Make it so she can't immediately fix the area if survivors successfully hack the drone to give them some progress time.
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Probably nurse or legion. Nurse is fun as its the most unique kind of chase from any killer, while legion has the best music to listen to.
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If we said he's already viable against good survivors, would you believe us?
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@Pulsar said:
My longest match was around 12 hours. It's been around four years since then, but I definitely remember it.
Hatch stand off?
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From what your describing, we're assuming its the music that plays when Myers tiers up or down as thats the only time the main Halloween theme would play unless your on Haddonfield in which case it plays at the start. It means someone's probably being stalked as he reached a new tier.
We do not know anything about a variation of his chase music past or present.
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49 (yes, we did the math of when we started to when the last man died) minutes against a nurse on red forest, mother's dwelling. Was in a 3 man swf with 1 random. So throughout the match said nurse is having a hard time catching anyone till she finally gets a Mikayla (whos part of the swf). Unhook she immediately drops chase and heads back to hunt for her and predictably tunnels her out (theres also a semi reason too). By this point theres 2 gens left but everyone notices that theres a 3 gen that the nurse has been protecting (hence the reason as our teammate was caught over there and kept getting caught over there).
So this 3 gen is special, theres 1 at top of the building, 1 at the foot of a hill, and 1 in a small jungle gym. All 3 gens can be seen from the top of this hill. Since the nurse has a real hard time catching any of the remaining survivors, but has erruption, brine, and overcharge, we proceed to do the equivalent of 7 more gens as we work abit, she chases us off for 10 seconds, we run to heal if anyone's hit, gen dies, repeat till we all make enough mistakes for her to get enough hooks to kill 2 more (lucky for us she didn't want to slug for the 4k). We're last on the chopping block and die due to forgetting that bbq exists and throwing ourself into a corner to dodge a blink (funny enough as we literally couldn't move between the rock, bushes, and nurse in fatigue).
Needless to say everyone was done for the night.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366313#Comment_3366313
the surprise factor is what made instadown perks more effective
As said, it only removes surprise factor from 2 of the exposed perks as each other one has a notification (Rancor, dragons grip, myc, haunted grounds). Making 2 perks only slightly more effective is not worth the annoyance that comes with old dh.
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We'd like it to either be an earned reward for actually playing well/certain way like the above reinami idea or have a heavier cost for that successful parry such as incapacitated or broken status.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365943#Comment_3365943
For what? Not sure what the context is exactly.
For below
@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365667#Comment_3365667
The strawman fallacy is attacking an argument that hasn't been made.
Correct. Now can you please quote where I said comp or otz are irrelevant and not saying those results are and here is the reasons why.
We don't know how to quote specific parts of a post so sorry if we're spamming you
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She's mostly meh to us as she strangely feels like facing gf, but controlling instead of chaos. Agreeing with the above in that probably could have drones take longer to return if survivors break them as she can keep areas set pretty fast.
Though a funny thing is that she has an exhausting add on. Dh doesn't work as well as a lot of people think and it's hilarious ~
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We would rather not.
Old dh was effectively a guarantee of everything going right at the push of a button. New dh there's a chance for the survivor to fail or the killer to out play (not counting scripts). We'd rather a small chance to get a down than a near 0 one.
Survivors also now have a chance not to be surprised down from noed or devour (the others listed already give some indication), which removes some fun factor, but is oh well. We bring this up because survivors that we have seen complained more about the surprise factor more than anything else (not entirely sure why).
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It's more like everyone is on during those hours so its just more likely to see sweaty players.
From a personal stand, we never noticed anything different other than que times.
Also can we make "demon hours" an actual thing? It sounds edgy enough that it's funny
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365125#Comment_3365125
In comp dbd survivors get massively nerfed. In the CC the rules say killer is restricted on add-on rarity and survivors are not only restricted in the same way but can't bring duplicated perks or items. So they massively nerf survivor and then players are using that the survivors lost the games as some counterpoint.
Otz getting a 2k is also irrelevant. Matchmaking in this game is capped at 1600 so players above this will always be viewed at 1600 for matchmaking purposes. The entire post is about baiting DH out and players just shift the goalposts.
How does players winning games matter in the context of DH being easy to bait out? The answer is that it isn't but players are grasping at anything to counter the perk being a problem. If x is a problem then y is the solution unless y is also a problem then it is z. Feels like a circular argument. If you are eating DH then bait it out. baiting out dh is easy you just need to get better. Top players are eating DH but they need to bait it.
Would the middle paragraph work?
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We don't dodge lobbies though depending on if the others look like an obvious 3 swf may bring a "selfish" build (been farmed 1 to many times)
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To be fair, he's got a point
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363780#Comment_3363780
I don't see how being smart with a perk justifies it being broken to the point where if you get outplayed with that perk you are getting old DH. I don't really follow the logic there.
I think any killer that is prone to pre-leave is going to have massive issues with SB. I'm not saying that exhaustion perks are all fine outside of DH. They should fix all valid issues with the game. The game should be fun to play and balance after. If the kill rates are fine but the game is miserable then they need to make the game not miserable and then fix the kill rates after.
Cause it's not broken. It's unfun, annoying, and all around pain in the @, but it's playable. We're assuming you keep going for this "correct" play and trying to bait a dh the hissing way despite knowing that survivors can completely do whatever they need to in that timeframe. Maybe we're using the wrong words but the perk gives advantages in certain scenarios, which is what a handful perks are supposed to do.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363554#Comment_3363554
Survivors can bait the Demo but the Demo is in control. If you are going to fake a window or pallet I can counter you. Good survivors can really conceal that they are going to bait but it at the end comes down to me falling for the bait for it to work. If I predict you will bait the pallet I always get the hit if you tried to bait it. It is only when I predict wrong where I get punished.
How is it fair if I bait the survivor into thinking I'm going to attack them and waste their parry yet they don't get punished for the mistake since the parry duration is the time of my attack window. This is why it basically is old DH for the survivor getting outplayed. What would make this situation fair is if a survivor can't throw pallets or vault windows for maybe 7 seconds if they failed their DH.
I can reduce SB by concealing portals near gens. There are ways to reduce how strong SB is vs Demo but that isn't the case for all killers. If DH was to die there would be complaints about SB. This would be in the same area where certain killers feel that they can't reduce how strong the perk is with their skill. This namely would be m1 killers most affected.
If the survivor knows what they can get away with and use it effectively then that's again then being smart. They're going to use the tools and abilities at their disposal which is fair as the killer is going to use everything at their disposal to kill them. We're not going to touch the 7 second thing.
So demo can reduce sp effectively but what about piggy? Was the original debate about dh being more effective on certain killers? (Honestly we kinda lost track)
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.....that's actually an annoyingly accurate fact.... Ohh dear
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362957#Comment_3362957
The survivor can bait the huntress into throwing or round the corner. I think that's more the same thing as the pallet vs m1 with DH. One side it is weighted in favor for but the other side can still do something.
The correct play is to not shred into a pallet and not hope your shred was the perfect timing to avoid the DH or stun. Identifying risky scenarios and actively trying to avoid risk when there is a safer play is a skilled thing for killer. If you aggressively attack as demo you will be eating a crazy amount of DH every game. I typically find 2-3 survivors on average run this perk.
Can the survivor not bait a demo into doing what they want? You can do something when in your corner pallet scenario, even if it's not something you would want to. As an aside we do eat a lot of dh when we don't care, and then they don't have dh with corner pallet and we have stacks of stbfl.
@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362939#Comment_3362939
DH isn't balanced around it procing all the time. The perk is a high risk/reward which is not the case if you're getting baited into using your perk but not able to be punished for the mistake.
I think the pre-leave and pop exhaustion is not healthy for the game. Now if we taking in the vacuum of Demo I am able to burn your exhaustion and place portals in ways where I can tp back and zone you from areas where I don't want you to go. There is actual skill that I can do there to counter your perks. Now this isn't the case for other killers which is why it will be a problem if DH was deleted because it shifts the problem into a different area. The main problem I see with exhaustion in general is where the killer has no way to counter the perk/reduce its effectiveness in a fair manner.
I think you equipping a perk doesn't mean you should be carried when you fail to use it in a skilled way. I would even say that it would be called a crutch.
So if survivors are putting you in a position where they can't be punished for a misplay that doesn't count for skill or brains while if you zone them into a similar position it is skill or brains? Is SB in the same place as dh as there's no way to reduce it's effectiveness other than map or other effects that equally affect dh?
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362901#Comment_3362901
The first paragraph may need dumbed down for us as we're not sure the point is other than "just because we're technically correct doesn't mean dh is fine".
You are comparing DH to calm spirit. I'm saying that an exhaustion perk which all survivors run 1 of is not only the most used but overtuned vs certain killers. This is the same thing for old COH. For some killers it was way more broken of a perk compared to others. This is exactly how I see current DH.
To us that sounds more like smart use of tools being able to put you in that position time and time again.
Irrelevant on whether it is smart or not. The point is that good survivors will try to put themselves in these positions and the perk has no counterplay while giving absurd value when in this position.
We're not sure how your both countering dh while giving it the same use as old dh so we're going to need an explanation on that.
I bait DH by holding m2 and pair the HISS from Demo with flicking my camera up. If a Survivor is at a corner/pallet they DH which I don't attack into which is me countering them and yet their DH covers my attack window resulting in old DH. I outplay you and yet you get rewarded. That is the complete opposite of a high risk/high reward perk. If you failing it results in still being rewarded there was no risk involved.
The pallet play vs Demo with a failed DH is just eat the pallet. If you are able to bait the DH there typically is too small of a timing window which makes the correct play just getting the pallet instead of risking it. This is basically the same thing that old DH did.
Thank you for clarification
Yes we were as the argument was "In general the perk is problematic vs certain killer powers that are telegraphed. Vs these killers the perk becomes low risk/high reward" . Is dh a problem because its so used, is it a problem because of certain killers? Then we come back to this "For some killers it was way more broken of a perk compared to others. This is exactly how I see current DH." . To go back to the calm spirit deal, as doc it negates almost all his tracking ability (he still gets a score event and add ons can still track), it negates any sort of screaming build, and currently can invalidate a whole rift challenge (darkness revealed one where they need to scream due to the perk).
Id argue against it being irrelevant. When a huntress holds her hatchet to simply zone someone out thats effectively putting survivors in a similar deal. Survivors can't do anything but get hit or use dh then either fail dh or get hit a few seconds later due to being herded into wherever she wants.
This is our opinion but that doesn't sound like an outplay or counter. That is to us overly respecting both the pallet and perk, but again thats our opinion as we tend to just aggressively attack.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362833#Comment_3362833
DH was the best perk in the game, and for killers where you used it to dodge the hit instead of using it for distance we see new DH being buffed. This is to an extent saying old COH was fine. All you had to do was play a strong chase killer and you didn't really care about what COH did. That doesn't make old COH fine.
Players use DH when turning corners vs Demo. You basically just have to eat the perk. Good survivors understand where there is zero counterplay and try to put themselves in this position as much as possible. Even when I counter DH as Demo it can just result in what old DH did. Perk is gross when me outplaying it results in the survivor getting the old version of it.
The first paragraph may need dumbed down for us as we're not sure the point is other than "just because we're technically correct doesn't mean dh is fine".
To us that sounds more like smart use of tools being able to put you in that position time and time again. Regardless you could use old dh to block a hit (which has been done at pallets even) but has changed so now instead of having a veriety of used for every situation it now has a more focused use.
We're not sure how your both countering dh while giving it the same use as old dh so we're going to need an explanation on that.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362814#Comment_3362814
I've already did this in multiple treads. Its redundant to go in every DH thread and post the same thing on why I find the perk to be a problem in my experience. I've even pushed back on players that say DH is fine because it was nerfed and they just don't counter my comments because you really can't.
In general the perk is problematic vs certain killer powers that are telegraphed. Vs these killers the perk becomes low risk/high reward.
When we visit those threads most logical arguments are buried under alota whining.
The argument that it works well against certain killers kinda falls as certain perks counter killers anyway. Spine chill for stealth ones, calm spirit for doc (and lesser extent anything causing screaming like infectious fright oni).
In addition powers that are telegraphed are usually easy to dodge unless funneled. We're perfectly capable of dodging 5-7 non point blank hatchets.
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@Trollinmon said:
Since people are just finding any reason they possibly can to defend DH we can actually look at this terrible argument that because the killer won DH is fine.
In this tournament Survivor are massively nerfed from the top 4 perks to the top 16. They are not allowed to bring the same item and both sides are restricted on item rarity. Saying something is fine because killer won when there are massive nerfs for the survivors is a god awful counter to saying the perk is fine.
Then please explain your argument on why dh isn't ok.
For our 2 cents, dh is annoying but in a good spot for now, baring the amount of times it's seen and the occasional script users. Either eat through or bait, it requires both sides doing something for it to work (or fail)
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@
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Because some people record/take pictures
Because some actually haven't seen it before
Because they just want to
Take your pick
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While some do prefer keeping track of hooks, we don't think it will do much. Those who want to tunnel will while others don't care about hooks and go after the best target ATM even if it means tunneling.
RIP Daisy
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Your reasoning is alot more sound than most posts like these
Currently killer is in very good shape when compared to past iterations of dbd (this is coming from someone whos been around since doc). The generators are taking longer (slightly but its at least noticeable when you don't run 4 regression/slow down, run 4 of those then gens can take forever) and the survivors splitting has been common for competent survivors since we joined. Haven't noticed anything new with survivor skill level overall (for us they usually fall into: actually good, know the map and loops but otherwise suck, play like they're new)
Your correct in that theres less killers but there is usually lulls in killer activity like waves, we just have a visual indicator now. Alternatively your correct and that people have just quit because they cant adapt but we wont really know till we have data as someone above said. Chases are a quick weight your options. If the chase is abit longer than 30 seconds but you've gotten rid of strong pallets, then thats a win to atleast us as the next chase in that area will end quicker.
While we agree that they should buff the weaker killers, giving every killer an effect like the one suggested is a bad idea. Yell kick and scream about buffing less played killers all day long and we'll suport that, but please dont give a global buff like that to everyone especially since some really dont need it.
This is treading to opinion territory so appoligies if it detracts but we don't understand why your frustrated with 9 hooks and 1 kill. Unless you tunneled and camped that 1 kill from the start, it seems to us you played well (won't know without a video).
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There's a lot of stores to share so we'll share one round the fire~
So months ago we're at badham as oni with our usual build (forced penance, pop, thano, sloppy) against a ttv and what we assume is their squad from the name and items. While 2 of them drop like flies, the others are good, the ttv in particular was actually great as they didn't run loops mindless like the other one and played bold smart.
So 5 gens go by with non dead and few hooks with someone currently on 1. EVERY survivor is determined to get that 4 escape so instead of running out when we arrive at that powered door everyone runs back IN. Keep in mind, the hooked one is as far from the doors as possible with both on effectively the same side. We in our infinite insanity open that door, turn red and say game on.
Q the most intense game of whack a mole as every survivor tries to keep everyone else up as quickly as we hit them down from broken slugs to flashlight blinds and staying at pallets. Eventually the timer claimed 2 survivors, one was the ttv being a hero while the other was the one rescued. In a rare happy ending everyone even enjoyed themselves and had fun due to those last minutes.
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For us its a flip between Ghostie or Twins ptb. Ghostface had Object users forever while twins had enough bugs where our group didn't even want to do a kyf.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Isnt it kinda unfair to expect the killer to juggle the survivor hooks to make it "fair" for them while survivors generally finish their gens in one sitting if possible? Even *gasp*
tunnelingfocusing the first gen they spot.While true, the question only really asks what feels fair to you personally. This game is a vs game so everything goes (within the rules) wether it feels "fair" or not.
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For us a "fair" time is after everyone is hooked at least once or if there's 1 gen left with everyone still up. At that point either everyone had a "turn" or we're in a corner as killer.
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Yes we have made friends here that we even still play with. While a depressing percent of this community is a toxic cesspool (at least that we keep seeing), there are also a lot of good people here too and they are worth putting up with the rest.
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Billy and Bubba are top of the list though we'll get bored if we see the same thing 5 times in a row.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348395#Comment_3348395
Anyone who has an internet connection also has the tools to test their internet connection. If you DC once due to natural causes, you shouldn't queue again unless you're sure it won't happen again. A spotty internet means take a break, don't inflict that damage upon the rest of the players.
Given the above, I don't really see it as in issue. It should really be something like 10, 30, 120 minutes. Repeat offenses usually mean a player with bad intentions.
I would use a word much stronger than 'usually' save for someone will inevitably show up and complain about their internet and swear up and down it's not their fault and that they're not responsible for monitoring their connection.
Twice now I've had perfect connection for an hr then it died for a few minutes, then back to perfect then died about and hr later then back. Didn't get back on after the second time. Sometimes life decides to throw **** at you.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348078#Comment_3348078
Could start by significantly increasing the penalty when a SoloQ'er DCs. If you're in a 4 man stack, the other 3 people have the option to reprimand your behavior by choosing not to play with you anymore.
Could also increase the penalty in general. It won't stop the behavior, but it will curb the frequency significantly. I don't think anyone believes it can be stopped entirely - but it is way too frequent as it is.
Edit: Typo OCD
Well first off probably should be a universal thing less every soloQ cries out like the damned (we are damned but still).
Secondly how far would it go since they cant a dc from a internet failure from pulling the plug. We (or more accurately I) dont want a 30+ min bad because the cable company is incompetent and unstable.
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If he's getting fully reset mid chase then (and sorry for sounding like the others) but that is on the player (and/or sometimes the map). We can't speak for everyone but we can speak for ourselves and we've only been reset like that on maps like hawkins (we couldn't navigate hawkins no mater what) and rpd (old and current). While we can't argue about when he hit's a shot it can go bad (if he fails to reel in an injured its back to square 2 [ deep wounds = 2.5?]) its up to the player to play smart and weigh if its worth it to keep going.
We prefer diversity over standardization but we're going to opinions and preferences here so meh.
and lastly: Ha. Haha. ha.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348092#Comment_3348092
They're both far more versatile in how they can employ their projectiles. I dislike some of the waiting they have, for sure, but they're not the same as Slinger. They can both reload the entire stock of their power after their chase, and they can both wield their powers far more consistently during the chase as a result. The tradeoff is if they mismanage their resources mid chase, they have to take that timeout or chase powerless. I think that's fair given the sheer projectile count they have, at least when compared to Slinger. We will likely never see Trickster buffs because of how strong his camping is.
The Billy mains would be very angry with you if they still existed.
{Our draft got deleted so were trying again}
Slinger's versatility comes from being able to continue chasing while reloading effectively not having a "time out" (or if you wish to be technical, has multiple short time outs while on the go). While slinger gets 1 shot and has to reel survivors to get a down (for injury he only needs to hit the shot) he doesn't really need to manage his ammo, only his time.
They do still exist (most came out to play a few months ago for some reason), and we're still laughing.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348055#Comment_3348055
Yes. It is the same comment. That was the point.
And no, I don't think it's entirely subjective. You can look where the clunkiness is allocated to draw very obvious, objective conclusions about his gameplay loop:
Deathslinger has to wait to shoulder his weapon, he has to wait to unshoulder his weapon, has to wait in the form of decreased sensitivity to aim his weapon, he has to wait while he reloads, he has to wait while he gets into range because of his mismatched terror radius, and he has to do all of these things that make him slower while already being 4.4. All of Deathslinger's artificially increased waiting comes during the chase. It is awful design. Period.
I could preach it to death and people would still go, "Nah he's just fine. It's skill diff."
But I'm still going to preach it. Freddy, Billy, Slinger - none of them deserve the treatment they received. Anyone who thinks it's acceptable for so many killers to have such an awful pick rate are coping.
Huntress and trickster can run out of ammo during chase and either have to drop chase or reload during chase. Both move at slinger speed. Is this also bad design?
Also this is personal opinions here but billy deserved it.
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While we agree that rage quits have spiked (actually had a killer rage quit recently even) it's not like there's much we can do. Where would we even start?
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347664#Comment_3347664
I can't disagree, in basically all of my games there is always at least 1 person running it.
But is that because DH is insanely powerful or is it because the perk is just fun to use and rewarding? I genuinely don't know.
This is how the whole "Maybe Windows needs a nerf" discussion started as well - the sheer frequency of the perk.
To be fair, it is both strong and fun to pull off. Yes it can inflate egos, but it does feel satisfying pulling off something borderline stupid and saving a match because you could parry a hit (which begs the question of why so many auto dh exist).
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The only problem we have is the sheer amount of times we see it. Every game there's almost always 2+.
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You forgot artist period
Second you forgot to add human error to huntress and slinger