Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1064843#Comment_1064843
Survivors have more fun when the killer isn’t tunneling or camping. If you are slowing down “genrush”, what are we doing about all those killers who would continue to play that way? You can’t base it off an honor system, where “if killers had more time, they wouldn’t do that”. Wrong, they would. Longer games requires addressing both sides, not just survivor.
I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Although tunneling is countered by DS and camping is countered by doing gens. Gen rush has no counter
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@Watery said:
I really don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Gen rush isn’t fun for survivors either, trust me— holding M1 is boring.
There isn’t a lot of substance to this post to go off of, we know that killers have more fun when there isn’t gen rush, but I just can’t tell what you’re trying to say, could you clarify for me please?
EDIT: I just don’t know what OP is getting at. What do you suggest is to be done about Gen Rush?
Gen speeds either need to be fixed (slowed down), or preferably give survivors another objective, because as mentioned, holding M1 isn't fun. I have a whole thread about repurposing Dull totems into another objective for survivors: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/121627/ruin-nerf-gen-speeds-and-balance-suggestions
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@Watery said:
I really don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Gen rush isn’t fun for survivors either, trust me— holding M1 is boring.
There isn’t a lot of substance to this post to go off of, we know that killers have more fun when there isn’t gen rush, but I just can’t tell what you’re trying to say, could you clarify for me please?
EDIT: I just don’t know what OP is getting at. What do you suggest is to be done about Gen Rush?
The point i'm making is i'm tired of going into a game as a killer and have 2-3 gens pop before the game even gets going and i end the first chase. Literally this happens almost every single game, and it's ridiculous. I have realized that its not fun for anyone. The killer or the survivors. But when the game goes on long enough and chases start happening (the fun part of the game) both sides have more fun when the gens aren't flying. And on top of that, its not an "omg entitled killer you don't deserve 4k every game" because even when i got 1K, half of the "games should be 2K/2E balance" i still had fun, and so did the survivors.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1063970#Comment_1063970
Too many to name. Examples of some I've seen include "the devs said that they aren't going to address/don't care about game speed", "the devs told killers to git gud", "the devs said we shouldn't bother defending generators", "the devs said they can't fix the sound bugs" and "the devs said they aren't going to change survivor perks". There are others, those are just ones I can think of off the top of my head.
They literally said "Let the survivors do 40% of their objective, it makes the game easier for you"
They also LITERALLY said "We aren't looking at gen speed right now" something something "M1 simulator" something something "we are looking at toolboxes"
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@Human_Giraffe said:
So I've been playing a lot, and mind you I play on the switch, and almost every third killer that I play against I bring an amazing item or a map or something like that and I lose it because my teammates can't rescue me. And this isn't because you can't kill everyone without camping.Quite the opposite actually, I main The Shape and I don't camp, and I usually get all four kills. I think how we could fix this is make a perk that if the killer is within a certain radius of a hook the gens repair speed goes up X2 so you have a better chance of escaping. Or something like that I just want to stop getting camped and having my teammates not stand a chance.
So I've been playing a lot, and mind you I play on the switch, and almost every third surivor that I play against I bring an amazing item or a mori or something like that and I lose it because my gens get completed. And this isn't because you can't win the game with just generators.Quite the opposite actually, I main Nea and I don't gen rush, and I usually escape. I think how we could fix this is make a perk that if the survivor is within a certain radius of a gen gen repair speed goes down 2x so you have a better chance of not escaping. Or something like that I just want to stop getting gen rushed and having my gens not stand a chance.
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@Peanits said:
That's a tricky situation. Say you increase movement speed while outside of a chase.
- That number would have to be fairly high. Something like 5% is not going to make a difference. 5% would be the difference between covering 44m in 10 seconds and 46m in 10 seconds.
- Moonwalking would be exploited to keep this movement speed during a chase. In a chase, whatever bonus you're giving people is massively amplified. Adding an extra 0.6m/s when moving around the map is nice, but not a huge game changer. Adding an extra 0.6m/s when you're chasing someone doubles the rate at which you catch up (if not more, depending on the killer).
I would be very hesitant with that. It would likely be abused.
Can it not be modified so moonwalking still keeps you in the chase?
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@Peanits said:
It would definitely be too much to be a non-hex perk. We aren't looking to change it to a non-hex perk.
It's definitely not just a late game perk, though. It'll get stronger the longer the game goes on and the fewer generators you need to check, but it can still be handy early on.
Hexes usually are gone within 2 minutes at red ranks, there is no "it'll get stronger the longer the game goes on"
i think what everyone is saying is, we WANT you to lower the regression amount, and make it non-hex perk.
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@KrispiesChicken said:
Corrupt intervention is a good perk I run to ensure they can't get two gens done before I find someone
CI just makes them hide for 2 minutes, doesn't really change anything.
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@MrGummeBear said:
EveryOne needs a little Clown in their Life.But everyone wants to end the Party too soon.Poor Clown covered in dust.
Since I got in the Red ranks I can't catch a break Using The Clown. I don't have trouble on smaller maps.Its It's the bigger ones that get me. I love playing as the clown he's one of my favorites killers.
I wish the clown could put traps on Gens so he can at least teleport or something so he could have chance on the bigger maps. Or his bottles did more. His bottle should have the same effect as Doctors shock at least giving you a window to end chase faster. So If survivor gets hit by the gas they can't use pallets or vault for few seconds. That would help Clown out I think.
But the main reason I'm posting is because I like to get some feed back from some Red Rank Killer or Clown mains.
What are the builds you use for Clown to make him more viable against Big maps and SWF?
I was using a slugging build but Survivors just DC on me so there goes that build out the window.
I'm using
BBQ
Whispers
PGTW
Corrupt Intervention
With the Solvent Jug i think (the exhaustion one) and anything else, reload speed or extra bottles.
i'm experimenting with CI right now but have use STBFL before which can also be really good, get it stacked up, bottle someone, hit them, and between their slow and your recovery they usually cant get anywhere safe. But TBH, i do pretty well with chases as clown anyway, most of my chases end in < 20 seconds, but i have little map presences. This is why i have been trying out CI.
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@Pulsar said:
I would suggest taking a break if you aren't having a good time. There isn't a need to get burnt out and have your love of the game fade. I agree with you though, most of my Killer matches are very stressful and I usually don't enjoy them very much.
Yeah, go play civ 5.
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@lynelmane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059881#Comment_1059881
They should balance the game based on skill level or rank. Otherwise it wont work
No, they shouldn't. They need to balance for top level play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw
Ruin nerf/change was actually good based on this philosophy, but they need to fix gen speeds, or give survivors another objective.
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@heartstone_malone said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058876#Comment_1058876
They blocked off infinites, shortened loops and killers still have bloodlust. Besides its not like the average survivor can even stay up long enough to get two dead hards or sprint bursts in one chase. It used to go down much slower when running. Not to mention exhaustion addons that can completely render all exhaustion perks useless and instadowns.
They shouldn't balance the game around "Average survivors"
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022069#Comment_1022069
Then why not slug when its tactically correct to do so? Get damage in whenever you can, rather than stopping everything as soon as a survivor hits the ground.
Because when you slug you still depip because BHVR "doesn't want you to play that way" so they only reward you if you hook everyone. Half the time if people DC i still depip.
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break
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@ppo8820 said:
okay gen rushing isn’t a thing! It’s literally the only survivor objective so what would you like? We wait 3-5 min while killer gets comfy and then start gens? Do you see how incredibly stupid it sounds out loud? How dare you rush to do your objective in the game, you need to wait so it’s fair. Stupid.
When I see that all 4 survivors have toolboxes and 2 of them have BNP. Yeah. That's gen rushing.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1047257#Comment_1047257
To use an example from that screenshot alone, the Freddy snare placement delay negatively affected killers and surfaced at the same time as the Decisive Strike issue. Different bugs take a different amount of time to pinpoint and fix, it's not a matter of preference.
I get that, i'm just saying that the point of the post was that you aren't fixing serious bugs for killers such as the sound issues that have been around for months. Almost every game i have someone who, while injured literally makes no noise and they don't have iron will. Or while downed they make literally no noise. Or generator noises being bugged (on both sides) but this affects killer more, for example the beginning of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqhBALWJc50)
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043030#Comment_1043030
Here, I went ahead and grabbed this for ya':
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/403/L538Z35NNL1C.png
There's a section in the patch notes specifically for killer related bug fixes.
Not gonna lie, but it's pretty amusing that you use that as "proof" that you fix killer bugs, when the a large amount of those bugs actually create negative experience for survivors. The point is not that you don't fix killer bugs, the point is that you aren't fixing bugs that are detrimental to killers and have been for literally months.
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@kreeper124 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1038154#Comment_1038154
There's no more discussion. The ACM answered with a clear answer. And in case you didn't see this
There is discussion to be had. The ACM did not answer the question directly and simply said "Send a report here and we'll look into it" that doesn't mean that its actually bannable. On top of that, the post you keep linking is old from before Endgame Collapse was a thing. Things may be different now.
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This seems mildly off topic.
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Updated with game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0hNYtbXaQg
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@supersonic853 said:
Now that ruins been gimped people are just running ivories and tunneling and moriing the first survivor so if im unlucky i get like a 2 minute long depip game after waiting about like 15 minutes for a que... Such fun gameplay... Even though i didn't ask for the ruin nerfs.
Tells devs to fix gen speeds then. Until they do, it's the only way we have to "slow the game down just a little bit"
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Edited OP with 2nd game.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Randomly breaking chase for no good reason isn't good strategy. Keep gen and survivor proximity in mind, and especially god loops when deciding when to break chase. Abandoning a chase can be worth it if done early with proper foresight, but is costly if done last minute after investing too much time in it. It's mostly game sense stuff, you probably already know most of it by now.
If i didn't break chase you would tell me to not chase people for so long. Just read around in threads where people link videos of this stuff and you will see people say that. I can't do both. Also only one chase i broke in which it took me a longer time to find someone else. Every other time was less than 5 seconds.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021582#Comment_1021582
It's the percentage of survivors that are killed in a match. So in the case where one survivor dies and the rest escape, they would have a 25% kill rate for that match. Or to give another example, if a killer has an average kill rate of 75%, that's an average of three kills per match.
I know this is getting off topic but since i have you, do you guys have data on the kill rate/survive rate for various perks being used? Or addons/items? Would be curious to know how that comes into play as well.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021420#Comment_1021420
She does well in red ranks as well. We released stats for all killers a little while ago, if you'd like to take a look: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/
define "kill rate" If the killer kills 1 person in the game but still depips is that add to the "kill rate" Because at 70% kill rate with 4 survivors that's not necessarily good.
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@TheBean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1014542#Comment_1014542
What you show makes your whole point irrelevant.
You said it yourself, those aren't the norm. If it isn't the norm, then start showing the other ones where you get trounced with all the gens popping in 4 to 5 minutes and they escape with the killer unable to do much while playing as hard as they can.
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Cause that one... Shows a Spirit crushing those survivors very easily.
If anything what this proves is killers have been condition to believe, if 2 gens pop before you get your first survivor hooked, means you've lost. That didn't even happen in the video cause 2 were on the hook in the basement before the first 2 gens popped.
Killers are also been condition to believe they should kill all 4 or it isn't a win.
The mentality needs to change. This post just reinforces that conditioning that exists with many killer players.
You are still missing my point. If I show you a video of a normal game you'll say it's because I didn't pressure well enough. That's why we show you ones where the game is extremely stacked in the killers favor and STILL 3 gens gone in 2-3 minutes. The point should be. If a game is that stacked for killer than gens shouldn't fly by that fast. If normally it isn't that stacked imagine how much faster it could go in a normal game.
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@TheBean said:
K... So you show a video of what?... A spirit without ruin killing all 4 survivors with 3 gens still left.
So what are you trying to point out here? Cause whoever made the video had to play harder?... What was stressful?.. That 2 gens popped when there was 2 in the basement on the hooks? Did they get the feeling they lost the match when that was happening?
Am I supposed to listen to some garbage narrative of that video to understand something I'm missing here?
I love the evidence people keep putting up on these forums about the Ruin nerf, meanwhile they still kill over 3 or more survivors... LUL... Survivors were potatoes is always the reasoning for it too... HAHA.
You need to stop focusing on the killer winning and focus on gen times. The reason people show these vids is because when they show you videos of survivors popping 3 gens before the first chase the finishing the game in less than 5 minutes you say "well just apply pressure better"
Then we respond and show you a video of a killer keeping every survivor injured, them acting like potatoes, and chases ending in 5 seconds. Yeah of course the killer wins in those games. But the point is that even when those things happen survivors STILL can pop 3 gens in the first 2 minutes before the killer can even find and down the first survivor.
Those games aren't the norm. Typically it takes 20-30 seconds to find then first survivor with a 20-30 second chase and the a 10-15 second hook and oh look 3 gens popped.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
If ruin got cleansed immediately it would be the same. If the survivors couldn't find Ruin until late game, its almost a free win. Night and day.
Ruin was awful and I'm glad we are seeing the back of it. Imagine nobody playing a new killer because they haven't unlocked the ONE perk that would give them a chance of a win.
But we need something in the base game to help with with gen times. I'm confident the devs are working on something, but they need to tell us how long we will have to wait otherwise people are going to defect to Civilization V.
I agree with this, i have no problem with them dealing with ruin, i agree that it is OP when not found and useless when it is. But something needs to be done about gens first. I played 6 games in a row against SWF red ranks that were able to get 3 gens popped during the first chase. It's ridiculous.
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@Rex_Huin said:
Basically if the first chase you get into happens to be a long one you are going to lose 2 or 3 gens and after that you are facing an uphill battle.
The change is horrible. On PS4 there is a shortage of killers. Why are they making the role even less appealing?
Doesn't even require the chase to go on long. Even if the chase is 20 seconds, it still takes at least 15-20 seconds to find someone, then another 5-10 to hook then even if i beeline for the gen that the survivors are at it still is likely to take me 20-30 seconds to walk to it, even then thats one gen/survivor, so i might stop it but its nearly done then 2 more pop. Or worse yet, they all are on the gen together then it gets done before i get there.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Survivor equivalent
The rules are simple:
- The gameplay must be your own. You cannot use anyone else's. It must be you playing.
- You must play as Dwelf. You cannot play any Killer and you cannot play any other Survivor.
- You cannot use Items of any kind.
- You cannot use Offerings of any kind.
- You cannot use any Perks.
- You cannot interact with lockers, totems or whatever else isn't a gen.
- You can only do gens. Don't run if the killer comes. Gens ONLY.
- You must escape with all four Survivors every match.
- You cannot disconnect from a match, regardless of map or if you're losing.
If Gen rush is truly broken, then you should be able to easily escape every single match regardless of map, whether or not you're up against adept Killerss or any other factor besides the genspeed alone.
Looking forward to seeing the results
(Not trying to make a statement other then how silly that challenge sounds)
Yeah actually, i regularly do that. Maybe i don't always escape, but i always pip every game.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1011620#Comment_1011620
30% of 80 is 24, 24+80=104
From there it's just 30% of the time it takes to repair a gen with each person added onto the normal time.
All that does is change the optimal repair speed from 1 person to two on a gen and that time dips nearly in half to 57 seconds, meaning your change gets negated by not touching totems at all. While Hex perks do need an overhaul to this, I disagree with tying gen times to dull totems for that reason. As it is they need to overhaul gen completion to be more than just M1 simulator.
Again, not sure where this is coming from, there are 5 totems, not 6, 25% increased speed would make it 100 seconds. Unless you are talking about with the new thrill, which is more meant to go with other hex perks to make them stronger, but does have the added effect of adding a few extra seconds to gens.
This is exactly the point though, it is viable to ignore the totems completely or also go do them. it needs to be relatively balanced toward that so that survivors can make the choice. But if they ignore the totems they run into the potential of getting a DH mori at only 3 hooks or having to deal with exposed the whole game. Hex perks become much stronger and more likely that someone will be running one making it so survivors are more incline to do the totems to deal with the hexes.
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@EZ5k said:
- Removal of the repair penalty means the gens would be done so much faster, even with a 30% penalty.
- With Ruin also dependent on standing dull totems, you have a 30% repair rate, or a 240% regression penalty, which is chump change as the rate of regression is 2 seconds of regression for 1 second of survivor time, which, while shortening the time needed to fully regress, doesn't affect the early game at all.
- People have already completely memorized totem spawns at high ranks, meaning that unless you get a map like The Game where totems are few and far between, it's a useless change while on the flip side it guarantees a victory without any real skill required on the killer's part.
- The issue with hex perks is less the consistency, and more so the fact that they generally didn't give enough reward for taking the perk. For example, I run MYC/DH on my hag, Im lucky if it lasts past the first hook in the higher end of games, meaning I just lost 25% of my loadout.
- The better solution is to simply just let killers open a screen for every map, and preplace totems themselves, which would also be a good way to buff Trapper and hag in the early game as well.
There's no real way to balance gen times by lengthening them. What needs to be done is disassemble it into parts needed before you can start repairing, and then keep the current gen time. It prevents gen rushing without creating artificial pressure, meaning that either side can still snowball if they're coordinated.
(Edit: Gen times by your proposal:
1pg: 104 seconds
2pg: 57 seconds
3pg: 42 seconds
All it does is just cause people to find a gen someone else is on and power through that without touching totems)
Not sure where you got your numbers but they are wrong it would be 100 seconds base not 104. I do know what you are saying about that, but i think that aspect would be more difficult for the devs to make. Dull totems currently exist and repurposing them this way would be easier than making an entire new game mechanic. This is why i think this would be a better solution as they would be able to more quickly get it out and it would be less likely to break.
I also see what you mean by gen speeds with multiple survivors and i do think that penalty should stay at this point now that i see the math more clearly. I have edited my OP to reflect this.
In response to your points:
- You are right an i have removed this suggestion
- The purposed changes i make to ruin would mean with 5 totems it regresses at 300% the rate meaning only 25% slower than the speed survivors do it at. Not sure where your math is coming from
- This may be true, but it is already the case that hex totems go so quickly. This would mean your hex lasts more than 30 seconds in this case. It would require them to cleanse at least 2-3 totems, which would require them time to find them (even if they memorize spots they still need to check them all) and each totem cleanse takes 15 seconds. That should easily be an extra 30ish seconds for each totem making the survivors have to do something else besides gens.
- i disagree, Hex perks in general are very strong in practice, but they take so long to get their effect, such as with DH. You actually proved my point by saying your DH is gone so quick you cant use it. That is exactly my point, if it took much longer for survivors to do the totems instead of just finding the one, you would get much more use out of your DH. You would have expose for much longer and you have a higher chance at getting a mori later in the game.
- This could be the case but it also makes the game harder for survivors. Killers can start putting totems in really weird places making it much more difficult for survivors to find them. This would make hex perks too strong and i think the idea would be to reduce the RNG factor, as survivors could still accidentally stumble on it, or never find it and be left against a really powerful perk.